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isk
02-11-2006, 04:40 PM
:sl:
I dont know how to start this, but this is regarding my brother. Basically he was unhappy with his wife (The main problem is that their is no love left between them and they do not even talk to one another) and he divorced her three times (this was written on a note) and this was done while she was pregnant.
I have read that it is permissible to divorce when your wife is pregnant and the divorce is valid. I also know the waiting period that the wife is allowed to stay in the husbands house is until she gives birth, and that happened in November last year.

The problem is that my parents are not accepting this and they claim that one cannot divorce his wife while she is pregnant and also that you have to have a valid reason which they claim he is not giving thhem.:?

Also they are saying that they will tell her not to agree to the divorce. Is this possible, :? as I know for a fact that once divorce is proclaimed three times regardless of the circumstance, it is valid and has to be acted upon. She is still living with my parents and my brother and they refuse to hear anything other than what they believe.

Is there any scholar or Imam that he can speak to (would greatly appreciate some contact details) or some evidence regarding this matter.

My parents say to my brother that if he does not listen to them, he will never be happy and they will curse him and he wont be forgiven (just so they can stick to their customs and beliefs)

Please can you help in this matter.
Jazakallah
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Takumi
02-11-2006, 05:33 PM
I'm truly saddened to read about your brother.

While I wish that parents just leave him alone, I guess, you're always your parents' child even after you're married.

The right to divorce is on both ends. Your brother has used his right and Islamically, I believe that his talaaq is valid. Your parents really need to re evaluate their position in your brother's life.

I don't know the circumstance of the divorce and it's not my business, but if someone cannot live in peace anymore with someone else, divorce is the best way, albeit Allah doesn't like it.

Nevertheless, what is YOUR position? Will you be able to calm your parents down and talk them into accepting your brother's decision?
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The Ruler
02-11-2006, 09:48 PM
i fink u shud reason wid ur parents. i fink dats the best way cuz its the same in ma moms family xcept dat its de opposite. ma uncl married n ma grand parents dont wanna accept her. :rollseyes i fink reasoning n understanding at this momentis da best :) << i hope dat made sense i jus kept blabbing :statisfie
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isk
02-12-2006, 04:09 PM
Salaams
thankyou for your opinion on this matter. I would like to know that is it permissible for her to stay in the house with my brother, as after they are divorced, dont they become like strangers to one another? she is still living with them after giving birth which was 3 months ago, how do you go about this matter as they still see each other (even though they do not talk or acknowledge one another?).
I know that even she is not happy but because of pressure from her family aswell, she'd rather stick and say that she does not want a divorce (family honour and stuff!!!!)
My parents keep persisting that he allow her to move back into the bedroom with him as she is crrently staying in one of the rooms downstairs. I believe this is not allowed.

As for me calming them down, thats impossible!!!!! they believe that im part of the cause of the divorce, because my brother was going to divorce her and throw her out without telling them or reasoning with anyone, and it was me who insisted that hedo it the correct way, and not to anger my parents and with Allah's help it would be better...Thats what I get for doing it the right way eh?
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Snowflake
02-12-2006, 04:30 PM
I'm sorry your brother is caught up in this situation. I find that the best solution to back up his rights would be too collect references from the Quran & Hadeeth pertaining to divorce issues and then calmly put them to your parents. No believing muslim can argue against a persons rights that way.
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shorouk
02-12-2006, 04:38 PM
if ur bro dont love her then so b it its his right to divorce her...
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Tasneem
02-12-2006, 06:11 PM
You cant divorce yor wife while she is pregant

After the baby is born then your brother can divorce her

SaLaMz
Reply

M H Kahn
02-14-2006, 07:42 AM
Originally Posted by isk
Salaams
I would like to know that is it permissible for her to stay in the house with my brother, as after they are divorced, dont they become like strangers to one another? she is still living with them after giving birth which was 3 months ago, how do you go about this matter as they still see each other (even though they do not talk or acknowledge one another?).
I know that even she is not happy but because of pressure from her family aswell, she'd rather stick and say that she does not want a divorce (family honour and stuff!!!!)
My parents keep persisting that he allow her to move back into the bedroom with him as she is crrently staying in one of the rooms downstairs. I believe this is not allowed.

As for me calming them down, thats impossible!!!!! they believe that im part of the cause of the divorce, because my brother was going to divorce her and throw her out without telling them or reasoning with anyone, and it was me who insisted that hedo it the correct way, and not to anger my parents and with Allah's help it would be better...Thats what I get for doing it the right way eh?
***
It seems you have no doubt that the divorce in question has remained valid. As soon as the child was born, the period of iddah ended; and now she is free to marry anybody she likes. But there remains a question: What have you meant by "he divorced her three times"? Did he pronounce three talaqs repeatedly in one session? Something like this?

I divoce you once.
I divoce you twice.
I divoce you thrice.
Or
one talaq.
two talaq.
three talaq.


Did he ever divorce his wife any time in the past in any way? If the answer is in the negative, then, according to scholars who have well conceived the Quranic verses relating to divorce, the divorce has taken place only once, not thrice or three times as argued by some misconceived scholars. If so, now that the iddah has expired, she is now free to marry anybody including your brother (her former husband). A new marriage contract will take place and a new amount of dower will be fixed and paid by your brother if he re-marries her. Remeber that your parents are pressurizing them to live together
as extra-marital fornicators ! It is dangerous !! Persuade them to fear Allah and do not push their son and her former wife to live in adultery.


Let us see what Allah says about divorce in the holy Quran:
"Divorced women must keep themselves waiting for three menstrual periods; it is not lawful for them to hide what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. In such cases their husbands have a right to take them back in that period if they desire reconciliation. Women have rights similar to those exercised against them in an equitable manner, although men have a status (degree of responsibility) above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise." [Al-Baqarah 2:228]

“The divorce is twice” [Al-Baqarah 2:229]

“And if he has divorced her (the third time), then she is not lawful unto him thereafter until she has married another husband. Then, if the other husband divorces her, it is no sin on both of them that they reunite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. These are the limits of Allah, which He makes plain for the people who have knowledge”
[Al-Baqarah 2:230]
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M H Kahn
02-14-2006, 08:50 AM
Isk,
If you let me know what exactly your brother did, I think I will be able to help you specifcally.
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M H Kahn
02-14-2006, 09:23 AM
The beauty of a woman must be seen in her eyes, because that is the
doorway to her heart - the place where love resides."
Reply

Ru'ya
02-14-2006, 11:56 AM
Originally Posted by Tasneem
You cant divorce yor wife while she is pregant

After the baby is born then your brother can divorce her

SaLaMz

:rollseyes From where did you get this ?


This is not true sister!

there is Talaq & there is Iddah period

Talaq is vaild in anytime but iddah period differs according to the case

for example : a pregnant iddah is untill the baby come .
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M H Kahn
02-14-2006, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by Ru'ya
:rollseyes From where did you get this ?


This is not true sister!
there is Talaq & there is Iddah period
Talaq is vaild in anytime but iddah period differs according to the case
for example : a pregnant iddah is untill the baby come .
This is the basic knowledge which we all should know and make others known for the sake of Allah.:hiding:
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isk
02-15-2006, 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by M H Kahn
Isk,
If you let me know what exactly your brother did, I think I will be able to help you specifcally.
salaams
i spoke to my brother yesterday and he claims that this is what he did:

He did not speak the words but wrote it them down on a paper
He wrote

i divorce you
i divorce you
i divorce you


He signed it and gave it to her (with the intention of fully divorcing her)

My parents are suggesting that if he wants he should marry another girl (any muslim) but he has to stay with this one and they will tell everyone that he wanted another wife.
I asked my brother regarding the matter that if the dovorce was not fully done, would he remarry her? he claims that he has no feelings for her left whatsoever, and he would still want her to leave.

the strange thing is that even before she got pregnant my brother had already started loosing love for her and it was very strange when we found out she was expecting (they used to barely speak to one another) this happened after they came back from pakistan (her family wanted her to sort the problems out, they are well known in practising black magic!!!) when my brother insisted that she stop making tea for him, she said that she wont mix anything in it again.

Nevertheless this may not be of any use now but, if it is not divorce yet, how should he go about the matter?
jazakallah for your help
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aljawaad
02-15-2006, 11:34 AM
This case really saddens me Sis. I'm sorry i cant help you but surely i've learned a lot of things in your thread. Thanks for starting that thread.
May Allah help you find a solution for this problem.
Reply

Takumi
02-16-2006, 04:36 PM
Wow! Can we assume that the conception took place in Pakistan, where she was maybe mixing something in the tea???

Well, is your brother working? Can he go and get his own place to stay?
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Kittygyal
02-16-2006, 04:47 PM
but end ov the day sis if ur brova n ur sistainlaw iz not getin on dem my advice iz dey shud sit down n talk take dere tyme if not den dey shud jus leve but if u think abwt it da child iz ur brovas n ur sistainlaw so think abwt the child wot iz da child gonna do wiv owt a dad :(
diz az hapened 2 my parents dats y a live wiv me dad nw :uhwhat
plz plz if i cd sumet that's not ryt plz do tell me cuz diz iz a serious issue :?
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:
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M H Kahn
02-16-2006, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by isk
salaams
i spoke to my brother yesterday and he claims that this is what he did:
He did not speak the words but wrote it them down on a paper
He wrote
i divorce you
i divorce you
i divorce you

He signed it and gave it to her (with the intention of fully divorcing her)
My parents are suggesting that if he wants he should marry another girl (any muslim) but he has to stay with this one and they will tell everyone that he wanted another wife.
I asked my brother regarding the matter that if the dovorce was not fully done, would he remarry her? he claims that he has no feelings for her left whatsoever, and he would still want her to leave.
the strange thing is that even before she got pregnant my brother had already started loosing love for her and it was very strange when we found out she was expecting (they used to barely speak to one another) this happened after they came back from pakistan (her family wanted her to sort the problems out, they are well known in practising black magic!!!) when my brother insisted that she stop making tea for him, she said that she wont mix anything in it again.
Nevertheless this may not be of any use now but, if it is not divorce yet, how should he go about the matter?
jazakallah for your help
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The couple is clearly divorced or seperated. Had they start living as a couple within the iddah, the divorce would automatically be revoked. But now that the iddah period has expired,they are now non-mahram, strangers to each other. But this divorce or seperation is one seperation, and every seperation has it way of re-union/re-marriage. Since the first option of re-union within the iddah is no more available, now, if this is the couple's first or second seperation, they may, if both are willing, re-marry on new terms and dower. But it seems that your brother is not willing to marry this woman again, rather he wants to get rid of her immediately. In this situation, your parents should let the woman leave your house immediately and your brother should pay her dues, if any, including the maintenance cost of the baby.Then you may wait for some months and see if the time heals the wound of your brother's mind. If so, and if the lady concurs, then a fresh marriage may be contracted between them.

Read the verses below:
"Divorced women must keep themselves waiting for three menstrual periods; it is not lawful for them to hide what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. In such cases their husbands have a right to take them back in that period if they desire reconciliation. Women have rights similar to those exercised against them in an equitable manner, although men have a status (degree of responsibility) above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise." [Al-Baqarah 2:228]

“The divorce is twice” [Al-Baqarah 2:229]

“And if he has divorced her (the third time), then she is not lawful unto him thereafter until she has married another husband. Then, if the other husband divorces her, it is no sin on both of them that they reunite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. These are the limits of Allah, which He makes plain for the people who have knowledge”
[Al-Baqarah 2:230]

Note that repeating the words "I divorce you" thrice, according to the above verses, do not constitute three seperations; it is one seperation. The people of most Muslim countries are mistaught by misconceived scholars that the words of divorce should be repeated thrice for a seperation to be effective, and once seperated, they cannot re-unite/re-marry without an intervening marriage of the woman with a second husband. But there is nothing like this in the Quran in case of seperation for the first or second time. For a seperation to take place once, it is not necessary to repeat the words of divorce thrice. Nor does the redundant repeatration of the same phrase makes any difference. As you hail from Pakistan, various books written by Pakistani scholars may misguide you to take this seperation as the third seperation instead of the first. Mind that you cannot toss off a book written by people instead of God's revelations in the Quran.

Could you please let me know if your brother divorced her any other time in the past in the same manner or in any other manner?
:hiding:
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isk
02-17-2006, 03:36 PM
salaams brother
My brother is working and already has a place of his own, but the thing is that the current house where he is living with my parents and younger brothers and sisters is on his name, and the other one(which was originally his, it was changed for some reason or another a couple of years back) is on my dad's name, so he's stuck financially and he cant exactly say to my parents that u have to leave the house(the one with his name on was originally my dads and they changed names and stuff to help out with something or the other) hope that makes sense.

They are agreeing that if he moves into the other house with the wife and child, that they will support him!!! he said to me that he'll prob end up killing her and we dont want that do we....

The conception took place in england when they arrived back, the rest of my family were still abroad for another 4 months...
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