PDA

View Full Version : God told me to invade, says Bush



abdul Majid
02-17-2006, 05:59 AM
God told me to invade, says Bush
LONDON
October 7, 2005 - 1:34AM
Page Tools

* Email to a friend
* Printer format
*
*

US PRESIDENT George Bush has said that he was instructed by God to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a new BBC series.

The claim comes from the first meeting between the US leader, the Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas (also known as Abu Mazen), and his then foreign minister in June 2003.

The ministers say that Mr Bush also revealed to them that he had been told by God to create a Palestinian state.

Former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath, now the Information Minister, describes the meeting with the US leader, in the BBC2 program, Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs.

He says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God'.

"God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq . . .' And I did.

"And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'.
AdvertisementAdvertisement

"And by God I'm gonna do it."

Mr Abbas, who was also at the meeting in the Egyptian resort of Sharm al-Sheikh, recounts how the President told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation.

"So I will get you a Palestinian state."

A BBC spokesman said the content of the program had been put to the White House but it had refused to comment on a private conversation.

The three-part series charts the attempts to bring peace to the Middle East, from former president Bill Clinton's peace talks in 1999-2000 to Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.

The BBC program speaks to presidents and prime ministers, their generals and ministers, about what happened behind closed doors as the peace talks failed and the intifada exploded.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
north_malaysian
02-17-2006, 06:52 AM
I wonder why his God dont tell him about Katrina!
Reply

HeiGou
02-17-2006, 09:16 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I wonder why his God dont tell him about Katrina!
Hmm. I wonder why His God didn't tell all those Indonesians about the Tsunami as well. People in glass houses should not throw stones.

(And in passing it is worth pointing out that George Bush denies saying this)
Reply

Sis786
02-17-2006, 09:54 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Hmm. I wonder why His God didn't tell all those Indonesians about the Tsunami as well. People in glass houses should not throw stones.

(And in passing it is worth pointing out that George Bush denies saying this)
;D Heigou LOL i cant believe you last line LOL;D Geroge Bush also denies saying the word "Paki" when it was taped. George Bush sometimes talks out of another hole in his body and people like YOU sometimes believe this!!!LOL
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
HeiGou
02-17-2006, 10:06 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
;D Heigou LOL i cant believe you last line LOL;D Geroge Bush also denies saying the word "Paki" when it was taped. George Bush sometimes talks out of another hole in his body and people like YOU sometimes believe this!!!LOL
Really? Where does George Bush deny saying Paki?

See http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...629781,00.html

Think about the source here. George Bush is reported by one of his enemies to have said something. Who do you believe? Well of course.
Reply

Khaldun
02-17-2006, 10:09 AM
:sl:

And who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah, or says: It has been revealed to me; while nothing has been revealed to him, and he who says: I can reveal the like of what Allah has revealed? and if you had seen when the unjust shall be in the agonies of death and the angels shall spread forth their hands: Give up your souls; today shall you be recompensed with an ignominious chastisement because you spoke against Allah other than the truth and (because) you showed pride against His communications.[Surah Al Anam Ayah 93]
Reply

Sis786
02-17-2006, 10:11 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Really? Where does George Bush deny saying Paki?

See http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...629781,00.html

Think about the source here. George Bush is reported by one of his enemies to have said something. Who do you believe? Well of course.

He said this on press conference I saw the tape cant remember if it was on the telly! But regardless he did say why would they spokesman for the white house say this

"The president has great respect for Pakistan, the Pakistani people and the Pakistani culture. Pakistan has been a strong member of the international coalition in the war against terrorism,"

Guilty conscience maybe?
Reply

HeiGou
02-17-2006, 10:22 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
He said this on press conference I saw the tape cant remember if it was on the telly! But regardless he did say why would they spokesman for the white house say this

"The president has great respect for Pakistan, the Pakistani people and the Pakistani culture. Pakistan has been a strong member of the international coalition in the war against terrorism,"

Guilty conscience maybe?
There is no denying that George W Bush said it. Presumably unaware that it is an offensive term in the UK (and probably not caring anyway). But where did he do the other half of your claim and deny he said it? That was his spokesman admitting he said it.
Reply

Sis786
02-17-2006, 10:34 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
There is no denying that George W Bush said it. Presumably unaware that it is an offensive term in the UK (and probably not caring anyway). But where did he do the other half of your claim and deny he said it? That was his spokesman admitting he said it.
You lost me!:?
Reply

HeiGou
02-17-2006, 10:42 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
You lost me!:?
You claimed
Heigou LOL i cant believe you last line LOL Geroge Bush also denies saying the word "Paki" when it was taped. George Bush sometimes talks out of another hole in his body and people like YOU sometimes believe this!!!LOL
So, we are agreed he said. I think he did so not knowing that it was offensive in the UK. I also think that he would not care if it was. He is not a person who thinks before he says things. But where did he deny saying it as you claimed?
Reply

Sis786
02-17-2006, 12:00 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
You claimed

So, we are agreed he said. I think he did so not knowing that it was offensive in the UK. I also think that he would not care if it was. He is not a person who thinks before he says things. But where did he deny saying it as you claimed?
Bush spokesman saying he did not know it was offensive is the same as Bush saying Just that BUSH aint got the bloody guts!!
Reply

Umar001
02-17-2006, 12:17 PM
No sister, you claimed that Bush then denied saying it. "Geroge Bush also denies saying the word "Paki" when it was taped."
In post number 4.
So what I think Heui (sorry about spelling) is asking is, can you show where Bush DENIED saying this.
What you have shown is that a spokes man has stated: "
"The president has great respect for Pakistan, the Pakistani people and the Pakistani culture. Pakistan has been a strong member of the international coalition in the war against terrorism,""
This is not Bush denying it, but someone just stating, and YES PROBABLY COS OF A GUILTY Mind.

but what the point was that you claimed he denied it, so Hei, is askin for any proof of deniel.

so am I, this is interesting.

Peace be upon ya
Reply

DaSangarTalib
02-17-2006, 01:09 PM
WATCH THIS>> http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...l-purpose.html
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
02-17-2006, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I wonder why his God dont tell him about Katrina!
Katrina and Rita were MY fault. I was angry with the necrophiles in New Orleans (Westgate Necromantic) for calling Azrael an Angel of Death, which is how I ended up in the middle of the Sunni-Shia dispute in the first place. I entertained a sick and twisted fantasy (hurling Katrina at New Orleans to the tune of the Led Zeppelin song "When the Levy Breaks" while swirling to the music). Then, because the people who were in the room who watched me do this... blamed me when it happened, I repeated the deal with Rita to prove that it was only a fantasy. I should have just played the lottery with the way my luck went. Now I have a bunch of people thinking humans beings can control the weather ~ ha! How come I can't make it warmer here then?

:hiding:

Ninth Scribe
Reply

abdul Majid
02-17-2006, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah

salam alakum this video is amazing brother....jazakallahkhair
Reply

north_malaysian
02-18-2006, 05:52 AM
Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Katrina and Rita were MY fault. I was angry with the necrophiles in New Orleans (Westgate Necromantic) for calling Azrael an Angel of Death, which is how I ended up in the middle of the Sunni-Shia dispute in the first place. I entertained a sick and twisted fantasy (hurling Katrina at New Orleans to the tune of the Led Zeppelin song "When the Levy Breaks" while swirling to the music). Then, because the people who were in the room who watched me do this... blamed me when it happened, I repeated the deal with Rita to prove that it was only a fantasy. I should have just played the lottery with the way my luck went. Now I have a bunch of people thinking humans beings can control the weather ~ ha! How come I can't make it warmer here then?

:hiding:

Ninth Scribe
Any plan for the 150th Mardi Gras, sir?;D
Reply

abdul Majid
02-19-2006, 07:34 AM
this guy pr. b is evil
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
02-27-2006, 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Any plan for the 150th Mardi Gras, sir?;D
I'm a female... and no. I had to promise I would not try a "best two out of three" scenario to prove the point, even though this was all coincidental to begin with.

Ninth Scribe
Reply

mizan_aliashraf
02-27-2006, 05:19 PM
Salam
This Bush is seriously ill.
We should take pity on him...... WHAT! Pity? no way! He seems to think he had divine revelation to invade Iraq - what a nutter! Does he think the same of Iran?
Wassalam
Reply

Christian_dove
02-28-2006, 09:56 AM
Originally Posted by abdul Majid
God told me to invade, says Bush
LONDON
October 7, 2005 - 1:34AM
Page Tools

* Email to a friend
* Printer format
*
*

US PRESIDENT George Bush has said that he was instructed by God to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a new BBC series.

The claim comes from the first meeting between the US leader, the Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas (also known as Abu Mazen), and his then foreign minister in June 2003.

The ministers say that Mr Bush also revealed to them that he had been told by God to create a Palestinian state.

Former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath, now the Information Minister, describes the meeting with the US leader, in the BBC2 program, Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs.

He says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God'.

"God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq . . .' And I did.

"And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'.
AdvertisementAdvertisement

"And by God I'm gonna do it."

Mr Abbas, who was also at the meeting in the Egyptian resort of Sharm al-Sheikh, recounts how the President told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation.

"So I will get you a Palestinian state."

A BBC spokesman said the content of the program had been put to the White House but it had refused to comment on a private conversation.

The three-part series charts the attempts to bring peace to the Middle East, from former president Bill Clinton's peace talks in 1999-2000 to Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.

The BBC program speaks to presidents and prime ministers, their generals and ministers, about what happened behind closed doors as the peace talks failed and the intifada exploded.

His God is Belsebub.
Reply

Khaldun
03-05-2006, 06:59 PM
:sl:

Isnt that a Jinn? LOL
Reply

snakelegs
03-05-2006, 08:17 PM
next time i get bored and want some attention, i think i will drop a bomb on my neighbour's house and then say God told me to. will that absolve me?
Reply

alishba
03-05-2006, 08:21 PM
so wot do u fink of us living under western rules
Reply

snakelegs
03-05-2006, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by alishba
thats funny snake legs il throw a bomb too
then comes the good part - award all my rich buddies contracts to rebuild it!
Reply

The Ruler
03-05-2006, 08:26 PM
oh myy! sis luks like ur gonna reach 50 posts tonite....:giggling:

plz do stop postin like dis...

neways...i fink dats jus a load o s***.....none o wat bush says s tru...:heated:

:w:
Reply

alishba
03-05-2006, 08:37 PM
i cant access the video help
Reply

Eric H
03-05-2006, 09:32 PM
There is just the feint possibility that old Georges will jump out of his plane at thirty thousand feet because little voices in his head are telling him that he can fly without a parachute.

Living in hope

Eric
Reply

droob
03-05-2006, 09:36 PM
what a flash,if you pls can i use it and put it in an islamic site which i am a member in???

:w:
join us
for peace & with peace
www.emanwords.com


Reply

renak
03-09-2006, 07:03 AM
It disgusts me that President Bush uses God for an excuse for his actions. Dubya is an idiot.
Reply

sumay28
03-09-2006, 07:06 AM
The jinns are messin' with bush, man....
Reply

renak
03-09-2006, 07:12 AM
Either the jinns are messing with him or he suffered brain damage when he was a cocaine user.
Reply

i_m_tipu
03-09-2006, 07:58 AM
brain damage

i think his (Bush) fanner might use the word brain damage and let him escape frm the justice. Bcoz mad people r innocent...:X
Reply

dianputri
03-09-2006, 08:39 AM
seems like bush want to be a prophet,,,:-D
Reply

dianputri
03-09-2006, 08:46 AM
seems like bush want to be a prophet,,,:-D

Next time he will said :

"end of the day will come on MAy 07TH "
Reply

north_malaysian
03-10-2006, 02:39 AM
Bush claims God insruct him to invade Iraq

Blair says he decided to join Bush jr. after praying to God for decision to join or not to join Bush jr.

Who are the legislative and executive power to USA and UK - God!?

In the near future God will ask George Bush to turn his state into a Christian theocratic state. Everybody must read bible 2 hours per day. Santa Claus will be banned. No porno materials. Casts of Brokeback Mountain will be executed. Who knows? :rollseyes
Reply

abdul Majid
03-10-2006, 05:14 AM
you know the funny thing is,

AMERICA INVADES AVGHANASTAN AND OCCUPIES IT

THEN IRAQ AND OCCUPIES IT

WATS IN THE MIDDLE??? I R A N

IT WAS A STRATIGIC PLAN ALL ALONG
Reply

HeiGou
03-10-2006, 09:49 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Bush claims God insruct him to invade Iraq

Blair says he decided to join Bush jr. after praying to God for decision to join or not to join Bush jr.

Who are the legislative and executive power to USA and UK - God!?

In the near future God will ask George Bush to turn his state into a Christian theocratic state. Everybody must read bible 2 hours per day. Santa Claus will be banned. No porno materials. Casts of Brokeback Mountain will be executed. Who knows? :rollseyes
Surely that would be a good thing. Better than the shirk that goes on now, no? Better God should have legislative power than men don't you think?

Of course Bush does not claim that God told him to invade Iraq, but even if he did, what would be so wrong in that?

It is odd how so many Muslims, even Muslims who have been in the West so long, don't seem to understand the nature of Western politics and apply Islamic notions to it. So if the government is not God's own, it must be equivalent to making a man God. There is no concept of a Free Citizen - either you are God's slave or some man's slave.
Reply

abdul Majid
03-10-2006, 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou

Of course Bush does not claim that God told him to invade Iraq, but even if he did, what would be so wrong in that?

.

he doesnt??? ummm i think your mistaken, he did claim that GOD told him!!

i dont know why you said OFCORSE he didnt???

even if he did you say, wuts wrong with that.... wuts wrong with that is MR.George thinks hes in a crusade of somesort, and he was on tv quoted saying a CRUSADE....

therefore my friend BUSH has an agenda alright, and that is distruction although OFCORSE you think he is liberating people!!!!

AND HELLOOOOO HE IS QUOTED NO NEED TO MAKE IT UPPPP !!!!!


Former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath, now the Information Minister, describes the meeting with the US leader, in the BBC2 program, Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs.

He says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God'.

"God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq . . .' And I did.

"And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'.
AdvertisementAdvertisement

"And by God I'm gonna do it."
Reply

bangalore bob
03-10-2006, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by abdul Majid
you know the funny thing is,
AMERICA INVADES AVGHANASTAN AND OCCUPIES IT
THEN IRAQ AND OCCUPIES IT
WATS IN THE MIDDLE??? I R A N
IT WAS A STRATIGIC PLAN ALL ALONG

Irans fall will come from within. The young population are already tiring of the Mullahs, the repressive 'religious police', and their countrys status as a 'pariah nation'.
Reply

Maimunah
03-10-2006, 08:51 PM
may allah guide him for surely he needs guidance
salaam
Reply

Rou
03-10-2006, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
You claimed

So, we are agreed he said. I think he did so not knowing that it was offensive in the UK. I also think that he would not care if it was. He is not a person who thinks before he says things. But where did he deny saying it as you claimed?
Could you show me a source for where GW Bush denies that god told him to attack palastine...?

He has mentioned this on a number of occasions...

and also blair has recently said that god would be his judge for what happend in iraq and that his conscience that is turn he said was influnced with his belif is what told him to join the war in iraq...

Point being both seem to be viewing this from a religous point of view....
Reply

bangalore bob
03-10-2006, 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by abdul Majid
he "God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq . . .' And I did."


And god told me to strap a bomb on myself and walk into a restaurant, scream "God is great", and set it off. Oh, nevermind, that was someone else.
Reply

bangalore bob
03-10-2006, 09:09 PM
God told me to kidnap foriegners and saw their heads off. Oh, that was someone else. Nevermind. :hiding:
Reply

Rou
03-10-2006, 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by bangalore bob
And god told me to strap a bomb on myself and walk into a restaurant, scream "God is great", and set it off. Oh, nevermind, that was someone else.
It matters not what ali in the off licence thinks as he is one man...

When the president of United States starts saying these things & it affects a thousand lives...

That matters...
Reply

Habib_Islam
03-10-2006, 09:10 PM
Doesnt Mr bush think he is God. It will all make sense from his eyes wouldnt it. But if you look up his IQ level anyone would have second thoughts! :giggling:
Reply

Rou
03-10-2006, 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by bangalore bob
God told me to kidnap foriegners and saw their heads off. Oh, that was someone else. Nevermind. :hiding:
When four men kill one man in there misguided fate that is murder...

When the president says god told him to bomb thousands of women and children that is a disaster...
Reply

bangalore bob
03-10-2006, 09:12 PM
God told me to beat women in the street because they might have spoken to a man who wasn't their relative. God tells alot of people alot of things.
Reply

Ghazi
03-10-2006, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by bangalore bob
God told me to beat women in the street because they might have spoken to a man who wasn't their relative. God tells alot of people alot of things.
Salaam

Hmm, whats with the sarcasam.
Reply

Rou
03-10-2006, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by bangalore bob
God told me to beat women in the street because they might have spoken to a man who wasn't their relative. God tells alot of people alot of things.
What religon said that??

When a man beats his wife in a muslim state allah told him?

When a man beats his wife in the west hes drunk?

Neither are correct however your views seems narrow...
Reply

bangalore bob
03-10-2006, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Rou
When four men kill one man in there misguided fate that is murder...
When the president says god told him to bomb thousands of women and children that is a disaster...
God is speaking to the president of Iran, also. God has told him the 'end of days' is coming soon. He was even given a date, but I don't have it handy right now. I'll get back to you with that so you can tie up your loose ends before...

And while a lot of innocents did die, it is always made to sound as if the U.S. goes out of their way to bomb women and kids. This isn't the case. It's counter-productive and a waste of good bombs. Bombs that could be used to kill killers. And now, who is killing innocents ? It's Iraqis killing Iraqis with outside agitation from Iran.
Reply

bangalore bob
03-10-2006, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by Rou
What religon said that??

When a man beats his wife in a muslim state allah told him?

When a man beats his wife in the west hes drunk?

Neither are correct however your views seems narrow...


Don't the Mullahs of Iran get their divine inspiration directly from god ? And the Wahabbists of Saudi Arabia ?
Reply

bangalore bob
03-10-2006, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by Rou
What religon said that??

When a man beats his wife in a muslim state allah told him?

When a man beats his wife in the west hes drunk?

Neither are correct however your views seems narrow...

The people doing the beating are the 'religious police', not husbands.
Reply

Maimunah
03-10-2006, 09:42 PM
where do u get that a muslim man can beat his wife??
Reply

bangalore bob
03-10-2006, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by mashaallah
where do u get that a muslim man can beat his wife??

I never said a HUSBAND was doing the beating. I said the 'religious police' in Iran and Saudi Arabia beat women in the street if they talk to a non-related male. Or show too much skin. Or wear too much make-up. God 'tells' the Mullahs and the Mullahs tell the 'religious police' to beat the women for these 'infractions'. . :hiding:
Reply

Rou
03-10-2006, 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by bangalore bob
God is speaking to the president of Iran, also. God has told him the 'end of days' is coming soon. He was even given a date, but I don't have it handy right now. I'll get back to you with that so you can tie up your loose ends before...

And while a lot of innocents did die, it is always made to sound as if the U.S. goes out of their way to bomb women and kids. This isn't the case. It's counter-productive and a waste of good bombs. Bombs that could be used to kill killers. And now, who is killing innocents ? It's Iraqis killing Iraqis with outside agitation from Iran.

Listen to your words...

What are you trying to prove...?

An iranian pres said god told him about the end of days...

Have u ever heard a muslim talk? ive heard a mullahs on many occasions say that the end of days are upon us? bring me the article source pls...

Im not picking at bones but a iranian pres who has clearly stated he is not democratic and is very religous saying god spoke to him and a democratic president who claims to be fighting a war based on terrorisem not religon is a big leap...

You call the bombs that kill women and children a waste not a tragedy? u see a loss of bombs and not a loss of lives?

I truly feel for you...

Outside aligations from iran?? u think thats why iraqis are fighting do you? care to clairfy pls..
Reply

Rou
03-10-2006, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by bangalore bob
Don't the Mullahs of Iran get their divine inspiration directly from god ? And the Wahabbists of Saudi Arabia ?
you have come from bush talking about god to who mullahs in iran listen to?

ok...

i will humour u...

If a mullah in iran listens to wahbists that is his mistake his focus should be on what allah has said..

but for yourself talking about this i do not ssee your point...
Reply

Rou
03-10-2006, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by bangalore bob
The people doing the beating are the 'religious police', not husbands.
So on the basis of misguided people beating innocents is that not what is going on in guntanamo?? or should i say worse is happening there but i come again to my question what is your point?

Look whatever saudi does stays in saudi they are not coming to the west and beating anyone...

And if iranians listen to wahbists it is in there own country they can listen to who they wish...

But when a american president bombs innocents all around the WORLD and says its cos god said to do it...

Do you see my point?
Reply

Rou
03-10-2006, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by bangalore bob
I never said a HUSBAND was doing the beating. I said the 'religious police' in Iran and Saudi Arabia beat women in the street if they talk to a non-related male. Or show too much skin. Or wear too much make-up. God 'tells' the Mullahs and the Mullahs tell the 'religious police' to beat the women for these 'infractions'. . :hiding:
Pls state where in the quran that it says u should beat your wife if she talks to a non known male or if she wears make up before making such statments...
Reply

bangalore bob
03-10-2006, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by Rou
Listen to your words...

What are you trying to prove...?

Prove ? I don't have a need to prove anything.


An iranian pres said god told him about the end of days...

Have u ever heard a muslim talk? ive heard a mullahs on many occasions say that the end of days are upon us? bring me the article source pls...


I will need to look that up. It's very real, though. He's even got a date.
I'm on my way out and don't have the time right now.

Im not picking at bones but a iranian pres who has clearly stated he is not democratic and is very religous saying god spoke to him and a democratic president who claims to be fighting a war based on terrorisem not religon is a big leap...

They BOTH claim to be inspired by god.

You call the bombs that kill women and children a waste not a tragedy? u see a loss of bombs and not a loss of lives?
I truly feel for you...


I'm speaking in a purely tactical sense. The way militaries think.


Outside aligations from iran?? u think thats why iraqis are fighting do you? care to clairfy pls..

It's not the reason but if you don't think Iran has a hand in inciting chaos, you are kidding yourself. It's not in Irans interest to have a free, democratic Iraq next-door. The influx a few months ago of sophisticated I.E.D.'s wasn't a miracle. They're made in Iran.
Reply

Rou
03-10-2006, 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by bangalore bob
It's not the reason but if you don't think Iran has a hand in inciting chaos, you are kidding yourself. It's not in Irans interest to have a free, democratic Iraq next-door. The influx a few months ago of sophisticated I.E.D.'s wasn't a miracle. They're made in Iran.
lol China also profits from iraqs war and sunni and shia uprisings and?

What does that have to do with a democratic president in control of a super power killing innocents and bombing countries beacuse he says god made him do it?

What is your point here?

my point is quite simple if he wants a religous war he should say so...if he wants a war on the basis of gods words bring it out in the open...

wether iran gains from iraqs war has nothing to do with what we were talking about!?

Ypur changing the conversation to suit your needs!? whats the point?

What are you trying to prove?

My people are dying beacuse some bloke thinks god is talking to him and has the power to wipe out nations at his command...

im worried so should the world be...
Reply

The Architect
03-10-2006, 11:02 PM
George W. Bush's God is probably a beer called Jägermeister. That stuff will mess you up so bad. Rofl
Reply

Lush
03-10-2006, 11:05 PM
*sigh*

Could Blair get any more misguided?
Reply

abdul Majid
03-11-2006, 12:53 AM
.. =(
Reply

renak
03-11-2006, 04:08 AM
Originally Posted by Rou
Could you show me a source for where GW Bush denies that god told him to attack palastine...?

He has mentioned this on a number of occasions...

and also blair has recently said that god would be his judge for what happend in iraq and that his conscience that is turn he said was influnced with his belif is what told him to join the war in iraq...

Point being both seem to be viewing this from a religous point of view....

Bush and Blair need not mix religion with political gain.
Reply

HeiGou
03-11-2006, 08:42 AM
Originally Posted by bangalore bob
I never said a HUSBAND was doing the beating. I said the 'religious police' in Iran and Saudi Arabia beat women in the street if they talk to a non-related male. Or show too much skin. Or wear too much make-up. God 'tells' the Mullahs and the Mullahs tell the 'religious police' to beat the women for these 'infractions'.
I tend to think God does not. Mullahs tell them to. After all God did not speak to Muhammed - only an Angel traditionally assumed to be Gabriel.

However such policies have reached Indonesia.

From the Sydney Morning Herald

Islamic moral drive spreads fear in Indonesia
Email Print Normal font Large font By Mark Forbes Herald Correspondent and Karuni Rompies in Jakarta
March 11, 2006


LILIS LINDAWATI finished waitressing at 8pm and was waiting for a bus when the men in brown shirts came. Five jumped from the back of a ute and forced her into a nearby van.

The frightened, three-months-pregnant mother of two was about to become another casualty of Indonesia's escalating morality war. Her crime: she was female, alone and wearing make-up. A tube of lipstick sealed her fate.

New bylaws championed by the ambitious mayor of Tangerang, a satellite city on Jakarta's outskirts, aim to drive out gamblers, drunks and prostitutes. They are enforced by a small army of "public order officers" who cruise the streets, able to arrest anyone at whim.

The move has created a de facto curfew for women in Tangerang. If they are caught alone at night they must prove they are not prostitutes.

As well as banning "physical intimacy" in public places, a bylaw states a woman "who behaves suspiciously" on streets or in hotels, theatres, coffee shops - even private houses - will be jailed.

Tangerang is not the only regional administration to introduce bylaws reflecting sharia - Islamic law. And a proposed national anti-pornography law will ban public kissing and any clothing considered alluring. Baring a navel would earn a jail term.

Moderate Muslim organisations are supporting the changes, but intellectuals, feminists and artists are beginning to mobilise against what they believe is a hardline agenda to reshape Indonesia. This week, on International Womens Day, thousands of Indonesian women demonstrated against the morality campaign.

A fortnight ago, Mrs Lindawati, 36, was ignorant of the debate.

"For God's sake, I am not a prostitute. I am a good woman. I have a husband and I have children," she protested.

But the officers ignored pleas to call her family, jailing her overnight. The next morning she was hauled from a two-room cottage to go on trial in the forecourt of the palatial offices of the Mayor, Wahidin Halim, where a large crowd was celebrating the city's anniversary.

"Everybody was watching," said Mrs Lindawati. She told the judge, Barmen Sinurat, she was not a prostitute. He demanded she empty her handbag, which contained face powder and lipstick.

"Then the judge said, 'There is powder and lipstick in your bag. That means you're lying to say that you are a housewife,' " she recounted. "I am hurt, insulted, because people think I am a prostitute. Please don't blame me if I put on make-up. Many housewives today put on make-up, otherwise our husbands will go away for another woman."

Her request to call her husband, a teacher at the local state school, was again rejected.

Striking his gavel three times, Judge Sinurat pronounced: "You are guilty. You are prostitute." Unable to pay a $40 fine, Mrs Lindawati was jailed for three days.

Mr Wahidin, brother of the Indonesian Foreign Minister, Hassan Wirayuda, was unmoved by Mrs Lindawati's plight.

"She could not prove she is not a prostitute," he told the Herald. "It is true when my men arrested her she was not committing adultery, but why does she put on such make-up?"

What's more, said Mr Wahidin, she wore tight clothes and "a good girl would not stand in the street with that kind of dress".

"The point is we can tell someone is a prostitute or not … They stand in the street moving their body, waving their hands, trying to attract people, seducing." Mr Wahidin denies the changes are political. There are rumours he will stand for regional governor and his morality bylaws have won support from powerful, Islamic-orientated parties.

A legal aid activist, Astuti Listyaningrum, said the show trial of Mrs Lindawati and 26 others was an abuse of the legal process. "Of course they looked terrible, looked terrified. Not because they are prostitutes, but because they were nervous," she said.

Despite the support of her neighbours, Mrs Lindawati now refuses to venture out. Other women have begun carrying letters from their employers explaining they must work late.
Reply

HeiGou
03-11-2006, 08:46 AM
Originally Posted by abdul Majid
he doesnt??? ummm i think your mistaken, he did claim that GOD told him!!
Where?

i dont know why you said OFCORSE he didnt???
Because it has been denied on several occasions. And George W Bush does not go around saying that sort of thing.

even if he did you say, wuts wrong with that.... wuts wrong with that is MR.George thinks hes in a crusade of somesort, and he was on tv quoted saying a CRUSADE....
So what? Surely some form of monotheism is preferable to atheism?

AND HELLOOOOO HE IS QUOTED NO NEED TO MAKE IT UPPPP !!!!!


Former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath, now the Information Minister, describes the meeting with the US leader, in the BBC2 program, Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs.

He says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God'.

"God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq . . .' And I did.

"And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'.

"And by God I'm gonna do it."
Notice who is doing the talking - a Palestinian minister. Would you say that perhaps he was not a close political ally or friend of George Bush? Would you say that perhaps this non-native English speaker might have a slight prejudice or even political interest here?
Reply

HeiGou
03-11-2006, 08:51 AM
Originally Posted by Rou
Could you show me a source for where GW Bush denies that god told him to attack palastine...?
You mean Iraq don't you?

How about http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4317498.stm

The White House has dismissed as "absurd" allegations made in a BBC TV series that President Bush claimed God told him to invade Iraq.
"He's never made such comments," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

The comments were attributed to Mr Bush by the Palestinian negotiator Nabil Shaath in the upcoming TV series Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs.

Mr Shaath said that in a 2003 meeting with Mr Bush, the US president said he was "driven with a mission from God".

Holy war?

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan. And I did, and then God would tell me, George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq... And I did.

"'And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East. And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who attended the meeting in June 2003 too, also appears on the documentary series to recount how Mr Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."

The TV series charts recent attempts to bring peace to the Middle East, from former US President Bill Clinton's peace talks in 1999-2000 to Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip this year.

It seeks to uncover what happened behind closed doors by speaking to presidents and prime ministers, along with their generals and ministers.

He has mentioned this on a number of occasions...
I think by "a number of occasions" you mean "never".

and also blair has recently said that god would be his judge for what happend in iraq and that his conscience that is turn he said was influnced with his belif is what told him to join the war in iraq...

Point being both seem to be viewing this from a religous point of view....
Actually that is not what he said but even if it was, so what? You think God is not going to be his judge? That he should not pray before going to war? That he should not think about what God wants before doing such things?

Of course all he said was that he prayed before making the decision. Big deal.

Again from the BBC

This is the transcript of Prime Minister Tony Blair's comments, on ITV1's Parkinson show, about the decision to go to war in Iraq:
Tony Blair: "That decision has to be taken and has to be lived with, and in the end there is a judgement that, well, I think if you have faith about these things then you realise that judgement is made by other people, and also by..."

Michael Parkinson: "Sorry, what do you mean by that?"

Blair: "I mean by other people, by, if you believe in God, it's made by God as well and that judgement in the end has to be, you know, you do your...

"When you're faced with a decision like that, and some of those decisions have been very, very difficult, as I say, most of all because you know there are people's lives, not just, this isn't a matter of a policy here or a thing there but their lives, and in some case, their death.

"The only way you can take a decision like that is to try to do the right thing according to your conscience, and for the rest of it you leave it, as I say, to the judgement that history will make."

Parkinson: "So you would pray to God when you make a decision like that?"

Blair: "Well, you know, I don't want to go into..."

Parkinson: "No, but, I mean, you've said that."

Blair: "Yeah."

Parkinson: "You've said that it would be informed..."

Blair: "Of course. You struggle with your own conscience about it because people's lives are affected, and it's one of these situations that I suppose very few people ever find themselves in, in doing, but in the end you do what you think is the right thing."
Reply

shaharoun
03-11-2006, 09:02 AM
:sl:
I think this man s going crazy now!!!!!
Only insense one gonna believe his babaric words.
May Allah give guidence to the strong islamic enermies,
and if there's no chance for them,May Almighty Allah
perish them.
:w:
Reply

HeiGou
03-11-2006, 09:04 AM
Originally Posted by shaharoun
I think this man s going crazy now!!!!!
Only insense one gonna believe his babaric words.
May Allah give guidence to the strong islamic enermies,
and if there's no chance for them,May Almighty Allah
perish them.
Which man is going crazy?

Why is what Bush and Blair said, even what they are said to have said, any crazier than what you just said?
Reply

Nicola
03-11-2006, 10:17 AM
Here we are on a Islamic forum...disucssing Prophets from the Bible and Mohammad from the Koran along with other issuses...most of us here believe in God we believe God sent messengers to man throughout time..for different reasons. mainly to do with our conduct!

With all that we have no problem...in believing all of those people
we will even kill and risk dying for our faith and belief in those things.
Whether Prs Bush did or didn't recieve a message from God is beside the point to me....I think the mocking is really uncalled for and insulting...and we are supposed to be God fearing people!

If it turns out he did recieve some kind of message..the Bible gives us lots of information on how to test the spirits, to see if they are from God or not.

If the message was from God it should be taken seriously and not just dismissed and Bush mocked.

Jeremiah was mocked and laughed at all this life, even thrown in jail...Because God had told him, to tell his people to repent for there sins..If not God would send a Godless nation to invade them and take them into slavery...
And look what happened to Israel then!
Reply

Cheb
03-11-2006, 12:38 PM
Sorry but I disagree. See Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was our last messenger and no one will come after him. Anyone who states otherwise will be contradicting the Koran and our beliefs and at the same time disrespecting our religion. At the same time, out of all people to claim such a thing, Bush I believe is an evil man who has plenty of characteristics that are similar to Hitler. So the fact that someone like him would say such a thing is a JOKE and therefore we will treat it as a JOKE.
If you want to know why Bush mentions religion every now and then please look into what he stands for. Look into New-Conservatism and you will see what Bush really is. Open up your eyes and dont be fooled by his lies.
Reply

Nicola
03-11-2006, 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by Cheb
Sorry but I disagree. See Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was our last messenger and no one will come after him. Anyone who states otherwise will be contradicting the Koran and our beliefs and at the same time disrespecting our religion. At the same time, out of all people to claim such a thing, Bush I believe is an evil man who has plenty of characteristics that are similar to Hitler. So the fact that someone like him would say such a thing is a JOKE and therefore we will treat it as a JOKE.
If you want to know why Bush mentions religion every now and then please look into what he stands for. Look into New-Conservatism and you will see what Bush really is. Open up your eyes and dont be fooled by his lies.
Well the God of our Bible gives us some the gift of prophecy, healing, wisdom and knowledge etc...so really only Muslims believe this statement of Mohammeds...there is so much evidence out there to support..newer prophecies after Mohammed.

Many Muslims receive visions and when they have immediatly turn to Jesus as their saviour..this is between God and man..and anyone who calls a messenger of God a liar, will have to take that up with God on Judgement day....
It is only one person Mohammed that said there would be no more prophets..yet since Jesus' death there have been many thousands of messages given to mankind for mankinds own good...God tells us in the Bible he will never bring down his wrath to mankind without first giving out warning to man-kind to repent their sins....I myself have recieved a message and recieved visions..and I am not a liar. I don't need to prove anything to man..I know what God gave me..

About Bush being an evil man...I am in no position to judge him...like I don't judge Saddam or OBL..that is up for God to do, Jesus tells us not to judge one another, least we be judged ourselves......

I myself must concentrate on my own behaviour and sin in life..and aim for Gods standards for man-kind...not aim for a person who I think is better than myself...or worse than myself...so I may think I am there fore a better person....
Reply

Maimunah
03-11-2006, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by Nicola
Well the God of our Bible gives us some the gift of prophecy, healing, wisdom and knowledge etc...so really only Muslims believe this statement of Mohammeds...there is so much evidence out there to support..newer prophecies after Mohammed.

Many Muslims receive visions and when they have immediatly turn to Jesus as their saviour..this is between God and man..and anyone who calls a messenger of God a liar, will have to take that up with God on Judgement day....
It is only one person Mohammed that said there would be no more prophets..yet since Jesus' death there have been many thousands of messages given to mankind for mankinds own good...God tells us in the Bible he will never bring down his wrath to mankind without first giving out warning to man-kind to repent their sins....I myself have recieved a message and recieved visions..and I am not a liar. I don't need to prove anything to man..I know what God gave me..

About Bush being an evil man...I am in no position to judge him...like I don't judge Saddam or OBL..that is up for God to do, Jesus tells us not to judge one another, least we be judged ourselves......

I myself must concentrate on my own behaviour and sin in life..and aim for Gods standards for man-kind...not aim for a person who I think is better than myself...or worse than myself...so I may think I am there fore a better person....
its true that we shouldn't judge others. watever they do is between them n allah. allah will judge them on the day of ressurection. but one thing for sure is that there is no prophet or messenger after mohamed pbuh. the only humans that receive revelation n message from god r prophets n messengers.
salaam
Reply

Kittygyal
03-11-2006, 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by mashaallah
its true that we shouldn't judge others. watever they do is between them n allah. allah will judge them on the day of ressurection. but one thing for sure is that there is no prophet or messenger after mohamed pbuh. the only humans that receive revelation n message from god r prophets n messengers.
salaam

:thumbs_up that is so tru sis whateva they do is between them n god....

i hope i cd that ryt:rollseyes


take care
Reply

Islamicboy
03-11-2006, 03:23 PM
AS salamalikum
watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XncVT...=george%20bush
Reply

HeiGou
03-11-2006, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by Cheb
See Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was our last messenger and no one will come after him. Anyone who states otherwise will be contradicting the Koran and our beliefs and at the same time disrespecting our religion.
Sure. Just as Muslims disrespect Christianity and Judaism when they say that Muhammed was a Prophet, and the Bahais when they say Muhammed was the Last Prophet, and all sorts of pagans when they say there is no God but God.

However in this case you have to understand the distinction between what Christians do and think acceptable (and Christians do talk to God all the time, sometime He even talks back) and what Muslims think (anyone who talks to God is making a claim to be a Prophet).

At the same time, out of all people to claim such a thing, Bush I believe is an evil man who has plenty of characteristics that are similar to Hitler.
Really? Such as?

So the fact that someone like him would say such a thing is a JOKE and therefore we will treat it as a JOKE.
Why? What is wrong with him praying and asking God for advice?

If you want to know why Bush mentions religion every now and then please look into what he stands for. Look into New-Conservatism and you will see what Bush really is. Open up your eyes and dont be fooled by his lies.
Neo-Conservatism? Not a religion.

Nro is George Bush a neo-Conservative in all probability.
Reply

Cheb
03-11-2006, 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by Nicola
Well the God of our Bible gives us some the gift of prophecy, healing, wisdom and knowledge etc...so really only Muslims believe this statement of Mohammeds...there is so much evidence out there to support..newer prophecies after Mohammed.
And only Christians believe the statements in the Bible. We can go in circles here but lets stop at that.
Would you show me the evidence of new prophecies?

Originally Posted by Nicola
Many Muslims receive visions and when they have immediatly turn to Jesus as their saviour..this is between God and man.
I dont understand what you are saying? Why would a Muslim who has had visions turn to Jesus and not God? Do you have evidence of this?
We already have someone who has had visions yet he remains a Muslim.

Originally Posted by Nicola
and anyone who calls a messenger of God a liar, will have to take that up with God on Judgement day....
Agreed. But Bush is a liar.
Originally Posted by Nicola
It is only one person Mohammed that said there would be no more prophets..yet since Jesus' death there have been many thousands of messages given to mankind for mankinds own good
And the last was to our prophet Mohammad (pbuh). It is a matter of belief here.
Originally Posted by Nicola
...God tells us in the Bible he will never bring down his wrath to mankind without first giving out warning to man-kind to repent their sins....I myself have recieved a message and recieved visions..and I am not a liar. I don't need to prove anything to man..I know what God gave me..
I do not think you are lying at all. However, I think you misunderstood the message
(You have not spoken in detail about it so I am actually not too sure what to believe).

Originally Posted by Nicola
About Bush being an evil man...I am in no position to judge him...like I don't judge Saddam or OBL..that is up for God to do, Jesus tells us not to judge one another, least we be judged ourselves......
My intention was not to judge him, my intention was to inform other waht kind of a man he is. People need to know that he is evil. This is necessary if we want to stop the injustice that is caused by him. You would not judge Saddam, but wouldnt you want people to know about what he is doing during the time he was in power?

Originally Posted by Nicola
I myself must concentrate on my own behaviour and sin in life..and aim for Gods standards for man-kind...not aim for a person who I think is better than myself...or worse than myself...so I may think I am there fore a better person....
(Opinion) You should also concentrate on the sins of others, not to judge them, but to guide them or to avoid them and warn about them.
Personally we are all human and we cannot know what God's standards are without an example. Our example is our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), and that is who I will follow.
Reply

Cheb
03-11-2006, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Sure. Just as Muslims disrespect Christianity and Judaism when they say that Muhammed was a Prophet, and the Bahais when they say Muhammed was the Last Prophet, and all sorts of pagans when they say there is no God but God.

However in this case you have to understand the distinction between what Christians do and think acceptable (and Christians do talk to God all the time, sometime He even talks back) and what Muslims think (anyone who talks to God is making a claim to be a Prophet).
True. In the end it depends on your intentions.



Really? Such as?



Originally Posted by HeiGou
Why? What is wrong with him praying and asking God for advice?
When was praying and asking for advice mentioned. The statment was, "God told me to invade".



Originally Posted by HeiGou
Neo-Conservatism? Not a religion.

Nro is George Bush a neo-Conservative in all probability.
I never said it was a religion. I dont even believe Bush is a Christian for that matter.
Reply

HeiGou
03-11-2006, 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by Cheb
When was praying and asking for advice mentioned. The statment was, "God told me to invade".
Except I have repeatedly posted White House denials that he ever said any such thing. So he probably didn't. It is his enemies who claim he did.
Reply

Nicola
03-11-2006, 05:11 PM
Personally we are all human and we cannot know what God's standards are without an example.
But we do know Gods standards....Jesus was sinless when he came in human form..he was tempted like the rest of us...but he resisted the only human ever to....We know God wants us as Jesus is..sinless and Holy like God himself.

that is the whole point of Christainity to live in Christ so long as we live in him...It is impossible to sin. When we step out of Christ we begin to sin again. It is a totaly amazing experience..

You should also concentrate on the sins of others, not to judge them, but to guide them or to avoid them and warn about them.
I feel the best way is to pray for them...and then in Gods mercy he will answer and show them the way to salvation...

But it is only God who can open a mans heart Jesus Christ. Then anything is possible.
Reply

Nicola
03-11-2006, 05:43 PM
its true that we shouldn't judge others. watever they do is between them n allah. allah will judge them on the day of ressurection. but one thing for sure is that there is no prophet or messenger after mohamed pbuh. the only humans that receive revelation n message from god r prophets n messengers.
salaam
__________________
Thanks for agreeing...I don't think we should not judge either like Jesus tells us also.
Matthew 7:2-5 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, Let me take the speck out of your eye when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

This is why the woman was not stoned.. :) only Jesus could have but he choose not to in his mercy for her...but he did tell her to sin no more!

One difference between Islam and Christianity is that we do recieve prophesies a gift from God..the messages, warnings of Gods wrath. etc these can come from the Holy Spirit or Angels.
Reply

Cheb
03-11-2006, 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by Nicola
But we do know Gods standards....Jesus was sinless when he came in human form..he was tempted like the rest of us...but he resisted the only human ever to....We know God wants us as Jesus is..sinless and Holy like God himself.

that is the whole point of Christainity to live in Christ so long as we live in him...It is impossible to sin. When we step out of Christ we begin to sin again. It is a totaly amazing experience..
Our prophet was also Sinless. I mean no disrespect or offense but our Prophet's (pbuh) teaching are more practical when implemented today. We are tought about everything from how to cut our nails to how to punish a criminal.
Reply

Nicola
03-11-2006, 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by Nicola
Many Muslims receive visions and when they have immediatly turn to Jesus as their saviour..this is between God and man.
I dont understand what you are saying? Why would a Muslim who has had visions turn to Jesus and not God? Do you have evidence of this?
We already have someone who has had visions yet he remains a Muslim.
Because that Muslim now knows that Jesus is the only way to get God to listen to his prayers for one..the only way for salvation..
I have evidence personal and much evidence from websites from ex Muslims..
also evidence from Jews who have recieved visions from Jesus.
One ex Muslim comes to mind...a ex PLO Pal terrorist named Walid Shoebat
he is now a prophet.

Others have found the percentage higher. Karel Sanders, a missionary in South Africa, reported that among African Muslims, "42 percent of the new believers come to Christ through visions, dreams, angelic appearances and hearing God's voice." According to Dawn's Friday Fax, a website that focuses on missionary reports, Arabic-speaking moderators explain supernatural experiences such as dreams, visions and healings through prayer to Jesus. "This is a hot topic in our region. People from all over the Middle East call us, telling how they were healed through prayer in Jesus' name," they quote one missionary as saying. "Muslim listeners often call to tell us about dreams and visions of Jesus, wanting to know what that means for them."
Many Moslems have been prepared for that step by their supernatural encounters, and accept the invitation. Some time ago, Bill Bright, director of the mission agency Campus Crusade for Christ, wrote that "we are experiencing an amazing phenomenon. Moslems in particular are having dreams and visions confirming the reality of Christ. After one radio program reported that Jesus had appeared to many Moslems in a dream and said to them 'I am the way,' the radio station received thousands of letters from Moslems in North Africa and the Middle East, in which the listeners said they had suddenly understood earlier dreams. They then wanted more information about Jesus."
http://amightywind.com/dreams/040723muslimdreams.htm

There are many thousands out there recieving visions, having encounters with Jesus...it's so wonderful...Praise God. He is pouring his spirit out..Just like Jesus tells us...when the ends was nigh Gods spirit would be poured out ...I could give you loads of info...but there is no point really...you have to recieve yourself to believe..well I know I wouldn't of ever believed it hadn't happened to me personaly if only I'd have known years ago it was easy and simple to recieve!
Reply

Nicola
03-11-2006, 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by Cheb
Our prophet was also Sinless. I mean no disrespect or offense but our Prophet's (pbuh) teaching are more practical when implemented today. We are tought about everything from how to cut our nails to how to punish a criminal.
I know you mean no disrespect.. and I mean none when I say..In Christianity only Jesus was sinless, thats why he was the perfect sacrifice..for all our sins.
When ever the Jews in the OT scarificed animals to God...because that's what God requires 'Blood' for man-kinds sins...the animal had to be pure without blemish.

What we Christians must do is to aim to be like Jesus sinless and that can't be done without the Holy Spirit living inside us..and we living inside Jesus...like he lives in the Father...
When we do that..we don't need set rules and regulations because Gods law is in your heart then you know everything that is needed to honour and gloryfy our Holy Father.
Reply

Nicola
03-11-2006, 06:37 PM
HeiGou said:

and Christians do talk to God all the time,
Don't Muslims talk to God then?

not be rude of anything..I just expected that they speak with God also.
Reply

Rou
03-11-2006, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
I tend to think God does not. Mullahs tell them to. After all God did not speak to Muhammed - only an Angel traditionally assumed to be Gabriel.
?? uhmm im not sure where you got that from the words of the quran were sent to prophet mohammed (pbuh) by god.

heance the quran being the word of god...
Reply

Rou
03-11-2006, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Notice who is doing the talking - a Palestinian minister. Would you say that perhaps he was not a close political ally or friend of George Bush? Would you say that perhaps this non-native English speaker might have a slight prejudice or even political interest here?
The palastinan pres was there he did not report it my friend it was in the news and radio...
Reply

HeiGou
03-11-2006, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by Rou
?? uhmm im not sure where you got that from the words of the quran were sent to prophet mohammed (pbuh) by god.

heance the quran being the word of god...
Well it is not an area I claim any expertise in, but weren't those word not given to him directly from God but transmitted via the Archangel Gabriel?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 451:

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

(as regards) Allah's Statement:

"Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith." (75.16)

When Gabriel revealed the Divine Inspiration in Allah's Apostle, he (Allah's Apostle) moved his tongue and lips, and that state used to be very hard for him, and that movement indicated that revelation was taking place. So Allah revealed in Surat Al-Qiyama which begins:

'I do swear by the Day of Resurrection...' (75) the Verses:--

'Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith. It is for Us to collect it (Quran) in your mind, and give you the ability to recite it by heart. (75.16-17) Ibn Abbas added: It is for Us to collect it (Qur'an) (in your mind), and give you the ability to recite it by heart means, "When We reveal it, listen. Then it is for Us to explain it," means, 'It is for us to explain it through your tongue.' So whenever Gabriel came to Allah's Apostle ' he would keep quiet (and listen), and when the Angel left, the Prophet would recite that revelation as Allah promised him.

Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0301:

A'isha, the wife of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), reported: The first (form) with which was started the revelation to the Messenger of Allah was the true vision in sleep. And he did not see any vision but it came like the bright gleam of dawn. Thenceforth solitude became dear to him and he used to seclude himself in the cave of Hira', where he would engage in tahannuth (and that is a worship for a number of nights) before returning to his family and getting provisions again for this purpose. He would then return to Khadija and take provisions for a like period, till Truth came upon him while he was in the cave of Hira'. There came to him the angel and said: Recite, to which he replied: I am not lettered. He took hold of me [the Apostle said] and pressed me, till I was hard pressed; thereafter he let me off and said: Recite. I said: I am not lettered. He then again took hold of me and pressed me for the second time till I was hard pressed and then let me off and said: Recite, to which I replied: I am not lettered. He took hold of me and pressed me for the third time, till I was hard pressed and then let me go and said: Recite in the name of your Lord Who created, created man from a clot of blood. Recite. And your most bountiful Lord is He Who taught the use of pen, taught man what he knew not (al-Qur'an, xcvi. 1-4). Then the Prophet returned therewith, his heart was trembling, and he went to Khadija and said: Wrap me up, wrap me up! So they wrapped him till the fear had left him. He then said to Khadija: O Khadija! what has happened to me? and he informed her of the happening, saying: I fear for myself. She replied: It can't be. Be happy. I swear by Allah that He shall never humiliate you. By Allah, you join ties of relationship, you speak the truth, you bear people's burden, you help the destitute, you entertain guests, and you help against the vicissitudes which affect people. Khadija then took him to Waraqa b. Naufal b. Asad b. 'Abd al-'Uzza, and he was the son of Khadija's uncle, i. e., the brother of her father. And he was the man who had embraced Christianity in the Days of Ignorance (i. e. before Islam) and he used to write books in Arabic and, therefore, wrote Injil in Arabic as God willed that he should write. He was very old and had become blind Khadija said to him: O uncle! listen to the son of your brother. Waraqa b. Naufal said: O my nephew! what did you see? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), then, informed him what he had seen, and Waraqa said to him: It is namus that God sent down to Musa. Would that I were then (during your prophetic career) a young man. Would that I might be alive when your people would expel you! The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Will they drive me out? Waraqa said: Yes. Never came a man with a like of what you have brought but met hostilities. If I see your day I shall help you wholeheartedly.
Reply

Rou
03-11-2006, 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
You mean Iraq don't you?

How about http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4317498.stm

The White House has dismissed as "absurd" allegations made in a BBC TV series that President Bush claimed God told him to invade Iraq.
"He's never made such comments," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

The comments were attributed to Mr Bush by the Palestinian negotiator Nabil Shaath in the upcoming TV series Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs.

Mr Shaath said that in a 2003 meeting with Mr Bush, the US president said he was "driven with a mission from God".

Holy war?

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan. And I did, and then God would tell me, George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq... And I did.

"'And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East. And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who attended the meeting in June 2003 too, also appears on the documentary series to recount how Mr Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."

The TV series charts recent attempts to bring peace to the Middle East, from former US President Bill Clinton's peace talks in 1999-2000 to Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip this year.

It seeks to uncover what happened behind closed doors by speaking to presidents and prime ministers, along with their generals and ministers.



I think by "a number of occasions" you mean "never".



Actually that is not what he said but even if it was, so what? You think God is not going to be his judge? That he should not pray before going to war? That he should not think about what God wants before doing such things?

Of course all he said was that he prayed before making the decision. Big deal.

Again from the BBC

This is the transcript of Prime Minister Tony Blair's comments, on ITV1's Parkinson show, about the decision to go to war in Iraq:
Tony Blair: "That decision has to be taken and has to be lived with, and in the end there is a judgement that, well, I think if you have faith about these things then you realise that judgement is made by other people, and also by..."

Michael Parkinson: "Sorry, what do you mean by that?"

Blair: "I mean by other people, by, if you believe in God, it's made by God as well and that judgement in the end has to be, you know, you do your...

"When you're faced with a decision like that, and some of those decisions have been very, very difficult, as I say, most of all because you know there are people's lives, not just, this isn't a matter of a policy here or a thing there but their lives, and in some case, their death.

"The only way you can take a decision like that is to try to do the right thing according to your conscience, and for the rest of it you leave it, as I say, to the judgement that history will make."

Parkinson: "So you would pray to God when you make a decision like that?"

Blair: "Well, you know, I don't want to go into..."

Parkinson: "No, but, I mean, you've said that."

Blair: "Yeah."

Parkinson: "You've said that it would be informed..."

Blair: "Of course. You struggle with your own conscience about it because people's lives are affected, and it's one of these situations that I suppose very few people ever find themselves in, in doing, but in the end you do what you think is the right thing."

Thank you for your post...now read what they have said and sorry i this suppoused to prove me wrong or right??

Thanks for the pst again...
Reply

Rou
03-11-2006, 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well it is not an area I claim any expertise in, but weren't those word not given to him directly from God but transmitted via the Archangel Gabriel?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 451:

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

(as regards) Allah's Statement:

"Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith." (75.16)

When Gabriel revealed the Divine Inspiration in Allah's Apostle, he (Allah's Apostle) moved his tongue and lips, and that state used to be very hard for him, and that movement indicated that revelation was taking place. So Allah revealed in Surat Al-Qiyama which begins:

'I do swear by the Day of Resurrection...' (75) the Verses:--

'Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith. It is for Us to collect it (Quran) in your mind, and give you the ability to recite it by heart. (75.16-17) Ibn Abbas added: It is for Us to collect it (Qur'an) (in your mind), and give you the ability to recite it by heart means, "When We reveal it, listen. Then it is for Us to explain it," means, 'It is for us to explain it through your tongue.' So whenever Gabriel came to Allah's Apostle ' he would keep quiet (and listen), and when the Angel left, the Prophet would recite that revelation as Allah promised him.

Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0301:

A'isha, the wife of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), reported: The first (form) with which was started the revelation to the Messenger of Allah was the true vision in sleep. And he did not see any vision but it came like the bright gleam of dawn. Thenceforth solitude became dear to him and he used to seclude himself in the cave of Hira', where he would engage in tahannuth (and that is a worship for a number of nights) before returning to his family and getting provisions again for this purpose. He would then return to Khadija and take provisions for a like period, till Truth came upon him while he was in the cave of Hira'. There came to him the angel and said: Recite, to which he replied: I am not lettered. He took hold of me [the Apostle said] and pressed me, till I was hard pressed; thereafter he let me off and said: Recite. I said: I am not lettered. He then again took hold of me and pressed me for the second time till I was hard pressed and then let me off and said: Recite, to which I replied: I am not lettered. He took hold of me and pressed me for the third time, till I was hard pressed and then let me go and said: Recite in the name of your Lord Who created, created man from a clot of blood. Recite. And your most bountiful Lord is He Who taught the use of pen, taught man what he knew not (al-Qur'an, xcvi. 1-4). Then the Prophet returned therewith, his heart was trembling, and he went to Khadija and said: Wrap me up, wrap me up! So they wrapped him till the fear had left him. He then said to Khadija: O Khadija! what has happened to me? and he informed her of the happening, saying: I fear for myself. She replied: It can't be. Be happy. I swear by Allah that He shall never humiliate you. By Allah, you join ties of relationship, you speak the truth, you bear people's burden, you help the destitute, you entertain guests, and you help against the vicissitudes which affect people. Khadija then took him to Waraqa b. Naufal b. Asad b. 'Abd al-'Uzza, and he was the son of Khadija's uncle, i. e., the brother of her father. And he was the man who had embraced Christianity in the Days of Ignorance (i. e. before Islam) and he used to write books in Arabic and, therefore, wrote Injil in Arabic as God willed that he should write. He was very old and had become blind Khadija said to him: O uncle! listen to the son of your brother. Waraqa b. Naufal said: O my nephew! what did you see? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), then, informed him what he had seen, and Waraqa said to him: It is namus that God sent down to Musa. Would that I were then (during your prophetic career) a young man. Would that I might be alive when your people would expel you! The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Will they drive me out? Waraqa said: Yes. Never came a man with a like of what you have brought but met hostilities. If I see your day I shall help you wholeheartedly.
Allah sent visons to the prophet where he saw the words from allah within a cave and what you refer to is allah speaking the revelations through the angel gabriel not the angel gabriel speaking to prophet mohammed (pbuh)
Reply

abdul Majid
03-11-2006, 11:23 PM
The prophet was illiterate, therefore ALLah(swt)or GOD sent Gabriel(as) to recite chapter after chapter to the Prophet(pbh) over a 22 1/2 year period!!!

The Prophet(pbh) memorized what Gabriel(as) has recited to him, then he taught his companions!!! and soforth
Reply

Maimunah
03-11-2006, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by abdul Majid
The prophet was illiterate, therefore ALLah(swt)or GOD sent Gabriel(as) to recite chapter after chapter to the Prophet(pbh) over a 22 1/2 year period!!!

The Prophet(pbh) memorized what Gabriel(as) has recited to him, then he taught his companions!!! and soforth
then after the death of the prophet pbuh the quraan was memorised by many muslims till today.
salaam
Reply

HeiGou
03-12-2006, 09:21 AM
Originally Posted by Rou
The White House has dismissed as "absurd" allegations made in a BBC TV series that President Bush claimed God told him to invade Iraq.
"He's never made such comments," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.
Thank you for your post...now read what they have said and sorry i this suppoused to prove me wrong or right??
Wrong. You did not read the first part. I have not denied that a Palestinian non-Native English speaker and enemy of Bush claimed he said that, I said that the White House has denied he said it. Which they have done. Many times. So it is not true that Bush has said this many time. It is true that he has denied it many times.

Thanks for the pst again...
My pleasure.
Reply

HeiGou
03-12-2006, 09:23 AM
Originally Posted by abdul Majid
The prophet was illiterate, therefore ALLah(swt)or GOD sent Gabriel(as) to recite chapter after chapter to the Prophet(pbh) over a 22 1/2 year period!!!

The Prophet(pbh) memorized what Gabriel(as) has recited to him, then he taught his companions!!! and soforth
Umm, I think you think I am making a claim I am not. I am not attacking the sacred nature of the Quran. I am saying that (in my experience which may be wrong) Muslims do not claim to speak to God - even Muhammed did not speak directly to God, but to an Angel which was probably Gabriel.

And I have my doubts about how illiterate Muhammed was but as that will only cause bad feeling let's save that for another day.
Reply

Rou
03-12-2006, 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Wrong. You did not read the first part. I have not denied that a Palestinian non-Native English speaker and enemy of Bush claimed he said that, I said that the White House has denied he said it. Which they have done. Many times. So it is not true that Bush has said this many time. It is true that he has denied it many times.



My pleasure.
i see..my apologise then...

However to say that the palastinian pres said it as a lie as you said beacuse he is his enemy? is a bit absurd... bush claimed he was not even in a meeting of this sort? you are correct someone is lying...i wonder who...
Reply

------
03-12-2006, 11:57 AM
He says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God'.
Driven with a mission MY FOOT:rant:
Reply

Nicola
03-12-2006, 01:19 PM
How can you have fellowship with our Father 'God'if you don't talk with him?
Reply

Cheb
03-12-2006, 02:03 PM
Correct me if I am mistaken but when we pray, we pray to God, when we make Dua'a, we make Dua'a to God.
Reply

Nicola
03-12-2006, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by Cheb
Correct me if I am mistaken but when we pray, we pray to God, when we make Dua'a, we make Dua'a to God.
Sorry I didn't mean to offend ..if I did

I was just wondering..
Do you pray in a different way to how say a Christians would pray to God.

Ours are Personal Prayers, like one would talk with a Father.
I can't talk for all Christians of course..But that is how we are taught by Jesus to pray.
Reply

HeiGou
03-12-2006, 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by Cheb
Correct me if I am mistaken but when we pray, we pray to God, when we make Dua'a, we make Dua'a to God.
Ahhh, but does He talk back? To you. Personally.
Reply

------
03-12-2006, 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Ahhh, but does He talk back? To you. Personally.
He does not necessarily need 2 tlk bak... he shows signs that he listens to your prayers.. and personally hes shown me signs..

And Allah swt knows best.
Reply

Cheb
03-12-2006, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Nicola
Sorry I didn't mean to offend ..if I did

I was just wondering..
Do you pray in a different way to how say a Christians would pray to God.

Ours are Personal Prayers, like one would talk with a Father.
I can't talk for all Christians of course..But that is how we are taught by Jesus to pray.
No I was not actually replying to your comment. I understand what you were saying. This was actually a reply to Heo (spelling).
Honestly I am not 100% about exactly how Christians pray to God so I wont comment on that. But I will tell you that the way we pray is 5 times a day (sometimes more). We do not choose when to pray, we are told when to pray and we do it willingly and happily.
What do you mean when you say "personal prayers"?
Reply

Cheb
03-12-2006, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Ahhh, but does He talk back? To you. Personally.
God does not talk back to anyone. The only person (correct me if I am wrong) that talked to God and God talked back to was Moses (pbuh).
Reply

Rou
03-12-2006, 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by Nicola
Sorry I didn't mean to offend ..if I did

I was just wondering..
Do you pray in a different way to how say a Christians would pray to God.

Ours are Personal Prayers, like one would talk with a Father.
I can't talk for all Christians of course..But that is how we are taught by Jesus to pray.
The set five times prayers are diffrent to what i think you mean as personal prayer do you mean if we talk to god? i pray nimaz and then i also pray on a personal level to speak to god..he shows signs if you wish to see them as a brother stated...
Reply

HeiGou
03-12-2006, 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by Cheb
God does not talk back to anyone. The only person (correct me if I am wrong) that talked to God and God talked back to was Moses (pbuh).
And even then He prefered to talk through the medium of a Burning Bush.

So that is pretty much what I thought too. Christians think they talk to God all the time and God talks back. Muslims do not.
Reply

Nicola
03-12-2006, 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Rou
The set five times prayers are diffrent to what i think you mean as personal prayer do you mean if we talk to god? i pray nimaz and then i also pray on a personal level to speak to god..he shows signs if you wish to see them as a brother stated...
thanks for the info

Are the set five prayers always the same ones or different ones daily?
Reply

Nicola
03-12-2006, 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by Rou
The set five times prayers are diffrent to what i think you mean as personal prayer do you mean if we talk to god? i pray nimaz and then i also pray on a personal level to speak to god..he shows signs if you wish to see them as a brother stated...
Thanks :)

I knew Muslims prayed five times daily...

Are the set five prayers the same each time...are they five different prayers..do they change daily..etc
Reply

Bittersteel
03-12-2006, 04:44 PM
i pray nimaz and then i also pray on a personal level to speak to god..he shows signs if you wish to see them as a brother stated..
that's kind of shirk,the signs.supersition is haram.
Reply

Cheb
03-12-2006, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
And even then He prefered to talk through the medium of a Burning Bush.

So that is pretty much what I thought too. Christians think they talk to God all the time and God talks back. Muslims do not.
Yes God listens but does not talk back. (Again brothers/sisters correct me if I am wrong).
Reply

Maimunah
03-12-2006, 05:29 PM
actually bro when we reading suraa faatiha he does respond back but we dont hear him.
salaam
Reply

Maimunah
03-12-2006, 05:32 PM
here is my evidence for it
Verily, Allah says I have divided the prayer between Myself and My slave in half. Half is for Me, and half is for My slave. Then Muhammad (s) goes on to explain the responses of Allah on each ayah to the believer:
1. Alhamdulillahi Rabil ‘alameen - Allah responds ‘My slave has praised Me’

2. ArRahman arRaheem - ‘My slave has extolled Me’

3. Maliki youmi Deen - ‘My slave has proclaimed My Greatness’

4. Iyyaka na’budu wa iyyaka nasta’een – ‘This is between Me and My slave and I grant to My slave what he has asked

5. Ihdinaa siraat al-mustaqeen – ‘All this is there for My slave. He shall be given what he prays for.’ The remaining ayaat have the same response

6. Siraat al-latheena in’amata ‘alaihim

7. Ghair il-maghdoubi ‘alayhim wa la daleen
Reply

Cheb
03-12-2006, 05:32 PM
Salam.
I did not mean it that way. I am talking about literally talking back.
Peace.
Reply

Rou
03-12-2006, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Abrar
that's kind of shirk,the signs.supersition is haram.
Brother before calling something haram please find out what it is the person is doing...

So tell me what is it that is haram? supersition? pls find me the verse you are reffering to...

and second your saying god does not show signs? he does not affect things around us?

"We will show them Our signs in all the regions of the earth and in their own souls until they clearly see that this is the truth..." (Surah Fussilat 41:53)

Allah does not answer our prayers? is that not a sign when he does?

Allah will not show the clear path to follow?

Allah shows me the path to walk and i walk it every day...i have seen signs i have seen proof that shows my heart that allah is and always has been....

Faith is a sign of allah...not supersition....
Reply

bangalore bob
03-13-2006, 12:39 AM
Iranian President Sees End of World Order
Kenneth R. Timmerman, NewsMax.com
Tuesday, Jan. 24, 2006



In a country of religious zealots, the extremism of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has even his own countrymen sounding alarms


Dissidents within Iran say their country's president is such a crazed fanatic that he will try to usher in the end of the world as we know it.


On Dec. 16, gunmen opened fire on the motorcade of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as he toured the southeastern province of Sistan, along Iran's border with Pakistan.


According to news reports, Ahmadinejad's personal bodyguard and driver were killed in the ambush, although the president was unhurt. The government-controlled media in Tehran attributed the attack to "bandits," a term used to denote a wide range of armed groups, from drug dealers to opposition guerrillas.


But in this case, the attack may have been part of a plot to remove the Iranian president by a faction within the ruling clergy. At least, so believes a Western source who has just returned from talks with top officials in Tehran.


The faction seeking to remove Ahmadinejad does not object to the substance of the Iranian president's repeated vows to "wipe Israel from the map" and destroy America. Nor do they believe Iran should abandon its secret nuclear weapons program, top Iranian government officials said, according to the source.


Rather, they object to the fact that he has made such comments openly and without ambiguity. They believe that his frankness dangerously exposes them to attack from the United States, Israel or both.



"This guy is not a politician," the source quoted one top Iranian official as saying. "He is certifiably insane. And he is obsessed with the Imam Zaman," the legendary 12th imam, or Imam Mahdi, whom many Shiite Muslims believe will return in the "end times" after a period of horrific battles, famine and pestilence.



Americans may find it curious that government officials in Tehran, who have actively supported the Islamic republic for years, object to Ahmadinejad's religious zealotry. After all, this comes in a regime whose constitution declares that the supreme leader is God's representative on earth whose edicts can not be challenged by elected representatives.


But for more than two decades, Iranian leaders such as former President Hashemi Rafsanjani have walked a fine line between openly defying the United States and conducting covert aggression through terrorists and sophisticated intelligence operations. Under Ahmadinejad, these officials believe, that fine line has been crossed.


Ahmadinejad's messianic beliefs and his obsession with the 12th imam have become an open subject of debate in Tehran. Meeting with his cabinet shortly after taking office last August, the new president reportedly had Cabinet members sign a loyalty oath to the 12th imam, which they dropped into a well near where the Shiite messiah is believed to be hiding.


In September, when Ahmadinejad took the podium to address the United Nations in New York City, he felt surrounded by light. It wasn't the stage lighting, he said. It was a light from heaven.


He related his otherworldly experience in a videotaped meeting with a prominent ayatollah in Tehran. A transcript of his comments and sections of the videotape wound up on a hard-line, pro-regime Web site, baztab.com


Ahmadinejad's "vision" at the United Nations could be dismissed as pure political posturing if it weren't for a string of similar statements and actions that clearly suggest he believes he is destined to bring about the return of the Shiite messiah.


The mystical 12th imam, who is venerated by many in Iran, disappeared as a child in the year 941. Shiite Muslims believe he will return and rule for seven years in perfect justice.


In a Nov. 16 speech in Tehran, Ahmadinejad said that the main mission of his government was to "pave the path for the glorious reappearance of Imam Mahdi (May God Hasten His Reappearance)."


Reports in government media outlets in Tehran have quoted Ahmadinejad as having told regime officials that the 12th imam will reappear in two years. That was too much for Iranian legislator Akbar Alami, who publicly questioned Ahmadinejad's judgment, saying that even Islam's holiest figures have never made such claims.


At the same time he has made such statements, the new president has repeatedly vowed to pursue Iran's nuclear programs, in open defiance of the International Atomic Energy Agency and European Union negotiators.


While many Shiite Muslims worship the 12th imam, a previously secret society of powerful clerics, now openly advising the new president, are transforming these messianic beliefs into government policies.


Led by Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, who frequently appears with Ahmadinejad, the Hojatieh society is considered by many Shiite Muslims as their own bona fide lunatic fringe. During the early years of the Islamic Revolution, even Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini found their beliefs too extreme for public commerce and sent them scurrying underground.


Since taking the reins of government in August, Ahmadinejad has placed Hojatieh devotees in his Cabinet and through the bureaucracy, where they are leading a crackdown on students, women, Western music and religious minorities.


On Nov. 22, a Christian pastor was murdered after the president told a gathering of some 30 provincial governors, "I will stop Christianity in this country." Other Christians have been arrested and Bibles confiscated in recent weeks.


The president's opponents within the regime believe that the widespread replacement of competent bureaucrats with Hojatieh supporters having little government experience could prove fatal to him. "The new guys don't know what they are doing, and the fired people are angry," said the source who just returned from Tehran. "So there is a window of opportunity."



But hints of "regime change from within," carried by emissaries to Washington, may not be enough to deter the United States and Israel from using military force to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.



"The business community in Iran is afraid of two things," the source who just returned from Tehran told NewsMax. "They are afraid of international sanctions, and they are afraid of a military strike by the U.S. or Israel. And they believe Ahmadinejad is bringing both."


American Enterprise Institute scholar and former CIA operations officer Reuel Marc Gerecht agrees that the new president could be a blessing in disguise for those who would support regime change in Iran.


"The only way Iran is going to get better is for it to get a lot worse -- and Ahmadinejad may just possibly be the man to galvanize a broad-based opposition to the regime," he wrote recently.
Reply

songinwind
03-13-2006, 12:48 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I wonder why his God dont tell him about Katrina!


Thats really a good question...sense it took them so long to get in there...or get the people out, when 1st warning came:rollseyes ..i think i read somewhere, he was at his ranch...but thats a sore spot with many from there...like some of my family members....and i do believe, as they were there....they do know the facts:)
Reply

abdul Majid
03-13-2006, 01:58 AM
Becuase His Whole Administration Is A Scam, Just Like His Fathers
Reply

bangalore bob
03-13-2006, 03:32 AM
Originally Posted by abdul Majid
Becuase His Whole Administration Is A Scam, Just Like His Fathers

Ahmadinejad is a SCAM !! He scammed everyone in Iran into thinking he was sane. He's a stark, raving, madman !! He's leading Iran down a path to destruction. And that's what he wants. Read my other posts on the subject.
Reply

abdul Majid
03-13-2006, 03:33 AM
Lol All Your Posts Go Down The Same Path ...

But Ill Read Them Anyway
Reply

bangalore bob
03-13-2006, 03:38 AM
Originally Posted by abdul Majid
Lol All Your Posts Go Down The Same Path ...
But Ill Read Them Anyway

What can I say, I'm focused. ;D
Reply

Zulkiflim
03-13-2006, 01:26 PM
Salaam,

BE not worried.

For whatever a man say is right or wrong ,,,,how many supporters he has or lack of it..It is is USELESS.

In the end each of us are judged by our deeds.
So have no fear,tho man justice is often placed on polls or votes.ALLAH justice is based on truth..

So keep the faith and do not feel unjustified.
Do not take action that would casue you to sin thinking that injusticce is carried out.
Always act in an Islmaic way and learn Islam.Be not a hollow muslim.
HElp those in need as you are able.Man courts does not absolve his sin.Allah and only Allah can forgive sin.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 67
    Last Post: 02-09-2013, 11:53 PM
  2. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 12-25-2008, 03:15 AM
  3. Replies: 30
    Last Post: 09-20-2006, 05:41 AM
  4. Replies: 110
    Last Post: 05-15-2006, 03:28 PM
  5. Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-14-2006, 06:53 PM
HeartHijab.com | Hijab Sale | Pound Shop | UK Wholesale Certified Face Masks, Hand Sanitiser & PPE

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!