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Cheb
02-17-2006, 07:49 PM
:sl:
This is a question that personally I already have made up my mind about. I am posting this because I would like to know what everyone else thinks. I believe that we are acting on our emotions for the wrong reasons a little too much these days. When I hear that someone blew himself/herself up in a bunch of soldiers I wonder, what was his/her reasons for doing so?
I am not only talking about the bombings, but also any other incidents.
After all, our actions are judged by our intentions. I believe we have way too much hate in us to truly succeed as Muslims.
Take this hadeeth for example:

"In the campaigns of the Prophet, before a general engagement of the forces, the champions of each side fought duels just like the Roman gladiators. In the battle of Uhud, a champion from the Makkan army rode out of his ranks and challenged the Muslims. Ali went out to meet him. Moments later, Ali had vanquished his opponent, and had planted his knee on his chest to deliver the coup de grace. In that moment, as a last act of defiance, the fallen champion spat on Ali.

It would have been a perfectly normal and human reaction on the part of Ali to have plunged his sword into the heart of the offender, who, now prostrate, had violated a rule of pagan chivalry – an unpardonable offense in Arabia.

But Ali did just the opposite. He rose from the chest of his enemy, put his sword into the scabbard, and walked back to his own lines.

Both armies were watching this drama, and both were surprised but no one was more surprised than the enemy who had just been overcome, and could not believe that he was safe. What was the meaning of this strange act, he wondered; wasn't Ali going to kill him for his insolence?

The Makkan hero rose from the ground, overtook Ali, and asked him why he did not kill him. Ali said:

"Your foul act made me angry. Now if I were to kill you, I would find satisfaction against a personal injury. But I am not seeking satisfaction against any personal injury. I do not want to kill anyone for any personal reason."

When the pagan warrior heard Ali's answer, his astonishment was even greater than before. But he understood that Ali was fighting for an ideal. Ali's answer accomplished what his sword had not; it destroyed the unbelief of his adversary, and he (the adversary) accepted Islam.

This one act epitomized Ali's philosophy of life. He demonstrated that his hatred, just like his love, was impersonal. He did not hate or love for himself; he hated or loved only for the sake of God. If he fought, it was only to win the pleasure of God; and if he made peace, it was also to win the pleasure of God. His whole raison d'être was to win the pleasure of God.

If Ali disdained to kill for reasons of his principle, he also disdained to kill for reasons of his humanity."

I always think about this hadeeth whenever I see Muslims react to any injustice that might have been done to them.

I encourage any criticisms and arguments.
:w:
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Umar001
02-17-2006, 08:20 PM
I think honestly, alot of muslims (THAT I KNOW PERSONALY)

they take the fact that Islam allows people to defend themselves and they abuse it, like where I'm from alot of muslims think they can intiate something but as long as they dont strike firstthey are not guilty, I dont think they realise the how much people endured before they were allowed to fight back.

Also I see alot of muslims (IN MY COLLEGE) are quick to accept un verified information.

Aight

peace
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abdul Majid
02-17-2006, 08:37 PM
how can you say, do we have to much hate in us after everything thats going on in the world past and present???
do you see what is done to out brothers ,sisters, CHILDREN, houses everything is being destroyed.....are we supposed to be happy??
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McCool
02-17-2006, 09:59 PM
No, you do not have to be happy. You do not have to like the situation. You have to deal with it. Anger and Hate are not constructive, When you are angry and hateful you are not rational.

Muslims are not the only people to be facing injustice. Stop acting as if you are because you being angry about it accomplishes nothing.
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abdul Majid
02-17-2006, 10:02 PM
ok so let me be quiet and watch as thousands of innoceent people die ?! ?! ?!

its not constructive i agree, but if your leaders promote killing and such, then what are the people supposed to think???

leaders like bush wanna conquer everythnig, but watta bout the us???
is it perfect yet???
how many people could bush have saved from wolrd hunger with that war money???
and so on....
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minaz
02-17-2006, 10:04 PM
Do we (Muslims) have too much hate in us?
No- a lack of education
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aamirsaab
02-17-2006, 10:08 PM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by minaz
No- a lack of education
I second that. 'Tis quite a shame too.
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*charisma*
02-17-2006, 10:25 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

No- a lack of education
i disagree, anyone can have education..only a few can gain wisdom out of it, and most gain arrogance out of it.

There are many things that can create hate in a person..first off its themselves none the less.

If anything, people waste time hating something forgetting about what they should really care.

If we helped the innocent more than we WASTED our money getting pleasure out of revenge, maybe we could get something good out of it. Allahu A'lem

Hate all that Allah hates, love all that Allah loves and follow the prophet's examples, simple as that

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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Cheb
02-17-2006, 10:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum


i disagree, anyone can have education..only a few can gain wisdom out of it, and most gain arrogance out of it.

There are many things that can create hate in a person..first off its themselves none the less.

If anything, people waste time hating something forgetting about what they should really care.

If we helped the innocent more than we WASTED our money getting pleasure out of revenge, maybe we could get something good out of it. Allahu A'lem

Hate all that Allah hates, love all that Allah loves and follow the prophet's examples, simple as that

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
Salam Alaykom.
Very well said charisma. That is what I was trying to get at. Hate does not really get you anywhere. Sure we have many reasons to hate our enemies but we are simply wasting way too much energy on expressing our hate rather than finding a REALISTIC solution. Right now we are simply too weak to fight. Hate is making us forget about why we are fighting in the first place. You should remember that it is not hate that gave victory to the Muslim armies during our prophet's (pbuh) time, rather it was faith or imaan. That is why I put the hadeeth in this thread, it is an example of why we should not use our hate to fight, rather we should use our faith.
However you cannot rule out education being another helpful solution. The education I am talking about is education in Islam and the teachings of our prophet (pbuh). If we truly followed his example, we would be a much stronger people.
Wasalam Alaykom.
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minaz
02-17-2006, 10:49 PM
Thus if people are educated they'd know that hate gets you no where
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*charisma*
02-17-2006, 11:21 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

format_quote Originally Posted by Cheb
The education I am talking about is education in Islam and the teachings of our prophet (pbuh).
Anyone can be fully educated about Islam, submission is what counts..

format_quote Originally Posted by Cheb
If we truly followed his example, we would be a much stronger people.
very well said mashallah, i agree

format_quote Originally Posted by Minaz
Thus if people are educated they'd know that hate gets you no where
Even if you were to be the most knowledgable in Islam it wouldnt stop you from feeling hate. It is one of the strongest feelings in the world, no matter what anyone says its YOU that can change your own mind, no one else. and its not wrong to hate, its ur actions that make people judge who you are despite how you are feeling.


fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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Cheb
02-17-2006, 11:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum

Anyone can be fully educated about Islam, submission is what counts..

very well said mashallah, i agree

Even if you were to be the most knowledgable in Islam it wouldnt stop you from feeling hate. It is one of the strongest feelings in the world, no matter what anyone says its YOU that can change your own mind, no one else. and its not wrong to hate, its ur actions that make people judge who you are despite how you are feeling.

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
However submission without knowledge may lead to misguided actions. I think it is safe to say that it works best with both together.
Salam.
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*charisma*
02-17-2006, 11:36 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

format_quote Originally Posted by Cheb
However submission without knowledge may lead to misguided actions. I think it is safe to say that it works best with both together.
yes very true indeed, i was saying that anyone could have knowledge but its not going to matter unless they actually put it to good use. Barak Allah feek for your correction and inputs.

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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abu_ismail
02-17-2006, 11:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdul Majid
ok so let me be quiet and watch as thousands of innoceent people die ?! ?! ?!

its not constructive i agree, but if your leaders promote killing and such, then what are the people supposed to think???

leaders like bush wanna conquer everythnig, but watta bout the us???
is it perfect yet???
how many people could bush have saved from wolrd hunger with that war money???
and so on....

:arabic6:

As Salaamu Alaikum,

I personally think that people are forgetting that when it was asked of Aishah (radiallahu anha) " What was the character of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Salaam)? She replied " it was that of the Qur'an" and in the Qur'an Allah says " In Muhammed you have the best example".

We have been taught by the best of creation how to deal with the fitnah that we as a Ummah are going thru at these times. We don't return to the Qur'an and Sunnah!!!! When we follow a way other then that of Allah and His Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Salaam) Then we are destined to be overtaken by our foes, our desires and our emotions. Let us not forget the is a Jihad called Jihad Al-Nafs, which was spoken about as being the greatest Jihad....

In short people when the amount of sins of the muslims reach and surpass that of the kaffers then the protection of Allah is removed from the people.

We have to as an Ummah return back to the obedience of Allah and His Rasool Muhammed (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Salaam). Let us leave our own personal feelings and desires. For surely Allah says "Is there any reward for good other than good" (55:60)
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Brother_Mujahid
02-17-2006, 11:43 PM
thought i'd share this hadeeth

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "The strong man is not the one who can overpower others (in wrestling); rather, the strong man is the one who controls himself when he gets angry." (Reported by Ahmad, 2/236; the hadeeth is agreed upon).

and yes we need to be educated to control emotions, and not to vent anger at the first instance of an event/words or actions of others.
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McCool
02-17-2006, 11:47 PM
Mujahid - That is the most sane/wise thing I have heard all day.
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abu_ismail
02-17-2006, 11:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Brother_Mujahid
thought i'd share this hadeeth

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "The strong man is not the one who can overpower others (in wrestling); rather, the strong man is the one who controls himself when he gets angry." (Reported by Ahmad, 2/236; the hadeeth is agreed upon).

and yes we need to be educated to control emotions, and not to vent anger at the first instance of an event/words or actions of others.
This hadeeth is small in the amount of words but it's meaning is far and wide. May Allah bless you for this naseeha, this words in there wisdom should reach the heart of every person seeking to be obedient to Allah and His Messenger (Sallahu Alaihe Wa Salaam).
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*LJ*
02-18-2006, 12:12 AM
Salam,

Alhamdulillah, those ahadith definitely give us all something to think about. I think there is a lot of hate/anger especially among younger muslims and even though I can completely understand why, I don't really think we should have so much hate.

We should be grateful for what we have and not dwell on what we don't have or what is 'against us'. After all, the prejudices against Islam exist simply because people don't know enough about it and don't see that it is the truth. Why should we be angry at this when we, as muslims, have been blessed and guided to the truth by Allah?

However, I do think we should correct people if they say something wrong about Islam and let people know when things upset us. If we do this, I think more people will come to see Islam for what it really is, inshaAllah.

Salam
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abdul Majid
02-18-2006, 12:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *LJ*
Salam,

Alhamdulillah, those ahadith definitely give us all something to think about. I think there is a lot of hate/anger especially among younger muslims and even though I can completely understand why, I don't really think we should have so much hate.

We should be grateful for what we have and not dwell on what we don't have or what is 'against us'. After all, the prejudices against Islam exist simply because people don't know enough about it and don't see that it is the truth. Why should we be angry at this when we, as muslims, have been blessed and guided to the truth by Allah?

However, I do think we should correct people if they say something wrong about Islam and let people know when things upset us. If we do this, I think more people will come to see Islam for what it really is, inshaAllah.

Salam

SALAM ALAKUM OH YOU CANT UNDERSTAND WHY HUH SISTER?!?!
WELL MAYBE ITS BECUASE WE HAVE BROTHERS BEING KILLED, CHILDREN MURDERED AND EVEN RAPED, SISTERS BEING RAPED, OUR GLORIOUS RELIGION STEPPED ON AND CRITIZED BY PEOPLE WHO BELEIVE NOT, AND DISTRUPUTE DRUGS AND SOFORTH.....BUT YOU THINK WE SHOULDNT BE MAD??
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czgibson
02-18-2006, 12:31 AM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by abdul Majid
SALAM ALAKUM OH YOU CANT UNDERSTAND WHY HUH SISTER?!?!
WELL MAYBE ITS BECUASE WE HAVE BROTHERS BEING KILLED, CHILDREN MURDERED AND EVEN RAPED, SISTERS BEING RAPED, OUR GLORIOUS RELIGION STEPPED ON AND CRITIZED BY PEOPLE WHO BELEIVE NOT, AND DISTRUPUTE DRUGS AND SOFORTH.....BUT YOU THINK WE SHOULDNT BE MAD??
Oh well - just a little bit of anger there then. It looks a bit out of place when you notice that *LJ* said "I can completely understand why"...

Peace
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abdul Majid
02-18-2006, 12:39 AM
PEACE yea sum anger you know, this stuf can get to a person....
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*LJ*
02-18-2006, 12:58 AM
Salam
Sorry if i upset anyone, I do undertsand why people are angry, I get angry myself too, especially with recent events.

On TV the other day someone was saying 'If muslims dont like our society and our rules then they should go back to their own country and society' and that really hurt, because im a revert from the UK, and i was just left thinking, THIS IS my country and my society.

I was just trying to say that we shouldnt try to get revenge on people and have too much hate for people. We should stand up for what we believe and defend our brothers and sisters around the world of course and we should also try to let non-muslims know more about Islam.

Peace be upon you Abdul Majid, may Allah guide us both.
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abdul Majid
02-18-2006, 01:07 AM
salam alakum,

i didnt mean to offend you , or make you sad sister...walaheee
i know you understand, its hard for all of us, we have to stay strong inshallah, and rememeber that, there is no power or might only with ALLAH(swt)..i wish people would see things how you do sister but you know how that goes...may ALLAH(swt) keep us all strong and guide us and others to the right path, and grant us paradise,, inshallah,,,,,,AMEN
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Malsidabym
02-18-2006, 01:10 AM
If we helped the innocent more than we WASTED our money getting pleasure out of revenge, maybe we could get something good out of it.
Hate does not really get you anywhere.
"The strong man is not the one who can overpower others (in wrestling); rather, the strong man is the one who controls himself when he gets angry."
From your prophet I believe.
These are some of the wisest things I've seen said since coming to this forum.
After all, the prejudices against Islam exist simply because people don't know enough about it and don't see that it is the truth.
I almost agree entirely with this statement, except to add, that the prejudices exist also because hate spreads more hate. Even if your young men are justified in thier anger, if that anger gets the best of them, and they behave angrily, many people don't understand why. Also, many of the people that get hurt as a result of that anger were not your enemy to start with, but become an enemy as a result of that action. I applaude the rational discussion that is taking place in this thread. Peace.
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*charisma*
02-18-2006, 01:10 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

SALAM ALAKUM OH YOU CANT UNDERSTAND WHY HUH SISTER?!?!
WELL MAYBE ITS BECUASE WE HAVE BROTHERS BEING KILLED, CHILDREN MURDERED AND EVEN RAPED, SISTERS BEING RAPED,
yo ekhi, chill it down a bit, no reason to type in caps and there is no reason for us to be mad at anything as of right now especially when were sitting here infront of a computer doing nothing about it. If anger will strive you to get up and do something then get angry but otherwise save it for later, when u will need it

subhanallah, you've just lost it a bit over what the sis "didn't" say. May Allah forgive us all ameen

OUR GLORIOUS RELIGION STEPPED ON AND CRITIZED BY PEOPLE WHO BELEIVE NOT, AND DISTRUPUTE DRUGS AND SOFORTH.....BUT YOU THINK WE SHOULDNT BE MAD??
Islam can never be stepped on, rather it stands over everyone. People cannot criticize it either, rather when they try they are criticized right back.

(edit: barak Allah feek for apoligizing to the sis :))

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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Malsidabym
02-18-2006, 01:13 AM
Abdul, many do see things as your sister LJ does, many muslims and non-muslims. They simply do not speak up. Usually the angry people speak louder. Have faith, there is still good in a lot of people.
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*LJ*
02-18-2006, 01:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdul Majid
may ALLAH(swt) keep us all strong and guide us and others to the right path, and grant us paradise,, inshallah,,,,,,AMEN
Ameen.

Thanks for the reply:) no hard feelings,

Peace be upon us all.
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abdul Majid
02-18-2006, 01:21 AM
lol not at all
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*charisma*
02-18-2006, 01:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by malsidab
I almost agree entirely with this statement, except to add, that the prejudices exist also because hate spreads more hate. Even if your young men are justified in thier anger, if that anger gets the best of them, and they behave angrily, many people don't understand why. Also, many of the people that get hurt as a result of that anger were not your enemy to start with, but become an enemy as a result of that action. I applaude the rational discussion that is taking place in this thread. Peace.
Prejudgement doesnt necessarily always have to be a bad thing, nor does it always spur out of hatred. Everyone has been prejudice sometime in their life over something, and this is purely nature whether its a negative judgement or a positive judgement.

regards,
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Malsidabym
02-18-2006, 01:23 AM
WELL MAYBE ITS BECUASE WE HAVE BROTHERS BEING KILLED, CHILDREN MURDERED AND EVEN RAPED, SISTERS BEING RAPED
I have seen many reports of people being killed, but not of muslim women and children being raped. I am not saying that it isn't happening, only that I have not seen any reports of this. Could you please tell me where to look? I am interested in getting all the facts, and really know whats going on. If you could post some links that would be great, thank you. Peace.
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Malsidabym
02-18-2006, 01:24 AM
Prejudgement doesnt necessarily always have to be a bad thing, nor does it always spur out of hatred. Everyone has been prejudice sometime in their life over something, and this is purely nature whether its a negative judgement or a positive judgement.
Agreed.
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abdul Majid
02-18-2006, 01:25 AM
peace... yea i have an idea why it wasnt wellbroadcasted, we can start with chechnya, and the concentration camps there....
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Malsidabym
02-18-2006, 01:28 AM
peace... yea i have an idea why it wasnt wellbroadcasted, we can start with chechnya, and the concentration camps there....
There was concentration camps in chechnya? Were there many? Where can I find this? Please post some links if you can, I would like to read about this.
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abdul Majid
02-18-2006, 01:30 AM
i dont know the exact number , you know but its like we dont know the exact number of torture chambers there are....i will get sum linkx..
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songinwind
02-18-2006, 02:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by McCool
No, you do not have to be happy. You do not have to like the situation. You have to deal with it. Anger and Hate are not constructive, When you are angry and hateful you are not rational.

Muslims are not the only people to be facing injustice. Stop acting as if you are because you being angry about it accomplishes nothing.


Sir........I see "very " few muslims acting as you say...(angry and hateful, which cause them to not be rational)..But when is the last time you say children shot....blown up,,,murdered..homes destroyed,,on and on it goes...so, we should sit, and say "thank u sir?"
Now I wish you to name for us,,,The "others" you are speaking of, that are going thur what I see muslims go thur????(This isn't a "pity us question)...I just like to know who the others are...simple question...and as we are from the usa...please keep that question to the happening here...:) ..
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abdul Majid
02-18-2006, 02:43 AM
Well Said Sista....everybody Wants To Overlook The Muslims.....people Who Preach The Oneness Of God.. And A Rightious Way Of Life....

We Dont Want Nothing From These People... Just To Stop Killing And Unjustly Things They Do Thats All...

another Example Of People Scared To Face The Factsss
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Malsidabym
02-18-2006, 02:55 AM
Sir........I see "very " few muslims acting as you say...(angry and hateful, which cause them to not be rational)..But when is the last time you say children shot....blown up,,,murdered..homes destroyed,,on and on it goes...so, we should sit, and say "thank u sir?"
Now I wish you to name for us,,,The "others" you are speaking of, that are going thur what I see muslims go thur????(This isn't a "pity us question)...I just like to know who the others are...simple question...and as we are from the usa...please keep that question to the happening here.
Hi songinwind, just noticed your post and would like to comment. I know the questions you ask are not directed at me, and I am not from the US, but all the terrible things you mentioned in your first paragraph
But when is the last time you say children shot....blown up,,,murdered..homes destroyed,,on and on it goes...so, we should sit, and say "thank u sir?"
do not seem to fit with the question you ask at the end of your post. You ask
Now I wish you to name for us,,,The "others" you are speaking of, that are going thur what I see muslims go thur????(This isn't a "pity us question)...I just like to know who the others are...simple question...and as we are from the usa...please keep that question to the happening here
. I don't think those things (children shot....blown up,,,murdered..homes destroyed) are commonly happening to muslims in the usa, at least anymore than anyone else in the usa. There is a lot of violence in the usa, but nobody is exempt, all groups have victims. I realize these things are happening to muslims elsewhere in the world, but is not a fair question for Mr. McCool to answer with the restriction you placed on the answer he is to give.
None of this is meant as any disrespect to you, only to point out the problem with your question.
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songinwind
02-18-2006, 03:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by malsidab
Hi songinwind, just noticed your post and would like to comment. I know the questions you ask are not directed at me, and I am not from the US, but all the terrible things you mentioned in your first paragraph do not seem to fit with the question you ask at the end of your post. You ask . I don't think those things (children shot....blown up,,,murdered..homes destroyed) are commonly happening to muslims in the usa, at least anymore than anyone else in the usa. There is a lot of violence in the usa, but nobody is exempt, all groups have victims. I realize these things are happening to muslims elsewhere in the world, but is not a fair question for Mr. McCool to answer with the restriction you placed on the answer he is to give.
None of this is meant as any disrespect to you, only to point out the problem with your question.

I wasn;t speaking of the children, families in the usa,,even tho they too are treated as total outsiders...of corse that doesn't happen here,(common sense told u that---murder,,ect to muslims)...But I really want to know the "others" he spoke of??????Who are they???:?
Ok if u feel I put a hard restriction on him..than please tell me who the "others" are anywhere...as that was the only thing I asked with a restriction...peace to u
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shorouk
02-18-2006, 04:13 AM
look at wat is happening to us dont u think we should at least have some hate ?/
its too much... literally everyday u hear something new bad happening regarding the muslims...
rebna maa3ana
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Malsidabym
02-18-2006, 04:21 AM
Hi Songinwind,
There are plenty of other people in the world facing injustice. Some at the hands of thier governments, some of militias in civil wars and tribal wars, and some based on religion.
Africa is a continent of injustice. Refugees flee thier homes to neighboring countries to escape violence in war at home.
In mirror image of palestinian children being killed in the Mid East, Israeli children are also killed. The children did no harm to anyone, palestinian or jewish children. This is injustice.
In India, hindus slay muslim families, and muslims slay hindu families, again, the children did no harm. This is injustice.
In america, young black men are viewed as thugs and criminals, while some are, some are not. The ones that are good get treated bad by police because they don't know who is good and who is bad. Injustice. The bad young men in turn rob and beat other young men, whites, blacks, arabs, orientals. Injustice to all these others, regardless of religion or not.
In south america, drug cartels rule large areas of countries. Good people are controlled by the cartels, if they resist they are killed. Injustice.
In the Darfur region of Sudan, black villagers are exterminated by arab militias backed by the government. The killing and rape occurs daily.
In the Philippines, christian families are killed for being christians.
Every day on this planet people are killed for being muslim, christian, buddist, black, white, the list of reasons is endless. These are just a few examples. The list of injustices faced by all types of people today is sadly, very long.
No disrespect to you, I just am answering your question. Peace to you.
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Cheb
02-18-2006, 08:39 AM
:sl:
Mashalla I am very pleased with the way this discussion is taking place.

Somethings I would like to note. We Muslims truly are not the only ones to face injustice here. I was going to also list some injustice happening in our world but then I saw malsidab's post. All what he said was true without a doubt. I do not think it is fair to non-Muslims who have suffered injustice to be ignored. We need to know that we are not the only ones who have been, and are, suffering. Thinking that way in my opinion would be doing injustice to the non-Muslims who have suffered. Please do not take offense to this.

Another note I would like to make is that it is important to differentiate between having hate, and acting on hate. Sure we have plenty of reasons to hate, but what we need to do is control it. I prefer that we do not have hate at all because it makes a person more rational all together. However, if you cannot help it, then at least control it. Do not act on your hate.

There is another Hadeeth about our prophet (saw)(pbuh) that I would like to mention:
"Prophet Mohammad's (pbuh) Jewish neighbor used to throw his garbage at the door step of the prophet's (pbuh) home every morning . The Prophet (pbuh) would then pick it up and throw it in the disposal area along with his personal trash, but the Prophet (pbuh) never got angry. One day, there was no garbage and the Prophet (pbuh) went to see if the man was ill. The man was so impressed that he became a friend. Our Prophet (pbuh) then started taking care of his neighbor and the Jewish neighbor very soon embraced Islam."

This is our prophet (pbuh), and he is the example that we should follow.
:w:
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*charisma*
02-18-2006, 08:58 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

very well said ekhi Cheb, excellent!
Your post was great too malsidab

Mashallah May Allah increase our wisdom, open our hearts and minds, and give us the intentions of doing well and the strength to continue to submit to him ameen

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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Eric H
02-18-2006, 02:40 PM
greetings and peace Cheb and thankyou for a very interesting thread,

"Prophet Mohammad's (pbuh) Jewish neighbor used to throw his garbage at the door step of the prophet's (pbuh) home every morning . The Prophet (pbuh) would then pick it up and throw it in the disposal area along with his personal trash, but the Prophet (pbuh) never got angry. One day, there was no garbage and the Prophet (pbuh) went to see if the man was ill. The man was so impressed that he became a friend. Our Prophet (pbuh) then started taking care of his neighbor and the Jewish neighbor very soon embraced Islam."
Peace is so often in the hands of the victim, the prophet pbuh could have thrown the garbage back on his neighbours doorstep and he was justified in doing this.

But like all people of peace know that kind of retaliation would have escalated into something more serious.

Peace often requires the victim to concede something and it often takes great perseverance to get the message across, but the rewards can be huge.

In the spirit of seeking peace, reconciliation and justice for all people,

Eric
Reply

Cheb
02-19-2006, 09:59 AM
:sl:
Thank you charisma and Eric for you input.
Eric very well said. That is exactly what we should think about whenever we are faced with a major decision. We should always revert back to the Hadith of our Prophet (pbuh) and the Quran to find the answers. The answers are always there, but the problem is that people just do not want to look for them. Anger is blinding them.
:w:
Reply

HeLLRiDeR
02-19-2006, 11:12 AM
That was a very interesting read, thank you to everyone who posted, most informative!
Reply

sargon
02-19-2006, 11:33 AM
HellRider, may I ask you a personal question? Why did you choose the username HellRider... it just makes me wonder...

Hate is never justified, but I can understand the feelings of sorrow and the anger it conjures up in a person. You look around the world and see so many situations, so many horrible things happening, it's just overwhelming. For those that don't experience it like myself I choose not to judge because I can't.

Those that do experience it first hand or personally and still refrain from actions inspired by hate or anger are those that truly follow the teachings of Islam!
Reply

Eric H
02-19-2006, 12:55 PM
Greetings and peace Cheb;
Anger is blinding them.
Being blind is a perfect description of anger, because the power to forgive is overlooked; we let our principles get in the way and we choose not to forgive. Maybe I can give a couple of personnel examples about forgiveness, one is really trivial and the outcome of the other made the difference between life and death.

Some years ago I was a window cleaner and a lady stopped me in the street and asked me to clean her windows, she said she would pay me on Friday. I went back and she said sorry come back again next week for the money. This went on for several months and I was going back every week for the money and becoming angrier as time went by. One day I went round and she was unloading a car full of shopping and she was almost laughing when she said I have spent all my money. I used to go home after and be angry with my wife and children because of how I felt.

I became more determined because of the injustice and it was eating away at me, I was scheming all kinds of things, like super gluing her door locks, slashing her car tyres, putting paint striper on her car.

I can’t really explain how the change came; but one day I just said to myself she wants the money more than I do, I will forgive her and not call back on her again and it felt like a huge weight had been lifted the moment I said that to myself.

When I look back it had taken me less than 15 minutes to clean her windows. I must have spent hours of my time in chasing after 15 minutes of work and countless number of hours feeling anger over several months.

My anger had made me blind to all the other good things in my life at the time.


The second instance came about after I had been cleaning an old ladies windows for a couple of years and it took longer to have a drink and a chat with her than it did to clean her windows. One day I called on her and she said if I tell you something will you promise not to tell anyone else. I thought it was going to be a bit of gossip and said yes.

She said she had just started to take some pills and she was going to end her life. I talked with her and listened to her story.

She had worked very hard during her life, her husband ran of with another woman and took most of her money at the time, and her children had used her and left her. Despite that she still managed to have a large house and a comfortable life money wise. She had a lodger at the time and he was a bit short sighted one day he kicked her dog, maybe it was an accident but the dog died in agony over the following month whining and being sick all the time.

She evicted her lodger and could not forgive him; her dog was getting old and she said it was the only thing in her life that had ever loved her for who she was and she had nothing to live for.

We talked for a couple of hours and the thing that seemed to make a difference to her was when I said death is not a problem we all die; but do you want to spend your final time on this Earth a bitter, twisted and angry woman; somehow you have to find it in your heart to forgive this man.

Just before I left I said it is pointless coming back next month to clean your windows, she said come back.

I called the following month and her kitchen had been decorated, she was planning to change the garden around, it was as if nothing had happened and she never mentioned again about giving up on life.

If I had never experienced the power to forgive in the first trivial way, I would not have understood how to help this lady.

If we do wrong then maybe it is our duty to try and ask for forgiveness so that the person we have offended will not store up all this anger in his heart.

On the television some time ago there was a lady who said that she forgave the person who had killed her son in a racially motivated attack with an axe. She said forgiving was the Christian thing to do and I can understand how this would help her live her life despite the murder of her son.
By her actions she has tested the conscience of all the white people in her area who do not hate blacks.

If we cannot forgive and store up anger in our hearts, then maybe God will judge us by this same measure.

Maybe as we learn how to forgive then we can come to some small understanding of how God can be even more forgiving.

in the spirit of seeking peace and reconciliation for all people

Eric
Reply

Eric H
02-19-2006, 12:58 PM
Greetings and peace be with you sargon;

Those that do experience it first hand or personally and still refrain from actions inspired by hate or anger are those that truly follow the teachings of Islam!
People of all faiths should be inspired by justice and peace for all of God's creation.

In the spirit of seeking greater interfaith friendships

Eric
Reply

Malsidabym
02-20-2006, 12:26 AM
Anger is blinding them
funny, although this is true of what anger does to you, i first misread it to say, "anger is binding them". This can also be said, because when you are constantly filled with anger and hate , you are powerless to move forward and enjoy life. your are powerless due to being bound.
Reply

Cheb
02-20-2006, 10:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace Cheb;


Being blind is a perfect description of anger, because the power to forgive is overlooked; we let our principles get in the way and we choose not to forgive. Maybe I can give a couple of personnel examples about forgiveness, one is really trivial and the outcome of the other made the difference between life and death.

Some years ago I was a window cleaner and a lady stopped me in the street and asked me to clean her windows, she said she would pay me on Friday. I went back and she said sorry come back again next week for the money. This went on for several months and I was going back every week for the money and becoming angrier as time went by. One day I went round and she was unloading a car full of shopping and she was almost laughing when she said I have spent all my money. I used to go home after and be angry with my wife and children because of how I felt.

I became more determined because of the injustice and it was eating away at me, I was scheming all kinds of things, like super gluing her door locks, slashing her car tyres, putting paint striper on her car.

I can’t really explain how the change came; but one day I just said to myself she wants the money more than I do, I will forgive her and not call back on her again and it felt like a huge weight had been lifted the moment I said that to myself.

When I look back it had taken me less than 15 minutes to clean her windows. I must have spent hours of my time in chasing after 15 minutes of work and countless number of hours feeling anger over several months.

My anger had made me blind to all the other good things in my life at the time.


The second instance came about after I had been cleaning an old ladies windows for a couple of years and it took longer to have a drink and a chat with her than it did to clean her windows. One day I called on her and she said if I tell you something will you promise not to tell anyone else. I thought it was going to be a bit of gossip and said yes.

She said she had just started to take some pills and she was going to end her life. I talked with her and listened to her story.

She had worked very hard during her life, her husband ran of with another woman and took most of her money at the time, and her children had used her and left her. Despite that she still managed to have a large house and a comfortable life money wise. She had a lodger at the time and he was a bit short sighted one day he kicked her dog, maybe it was an accident but the dog died in agony over the following month whining and being sick all the time.

She evicted her lodger and could not forgive him; her dog was getting old and she said it was the only thing in her life that had ever loved her for who she was and she had nothing to live for.

We talked for a couple of hours and the thing that seemed to make a difference to her was when I said death is not a problem we all die; but do you want to spend your final time on this Earth a bitter, twisted and angry woman; somehow you have to find it in your heart to forgive this man.

Just before I left I said it is pointless coming back next month to clean your windows, she said come back.

I called the following month and her kitchen had been decorated, she was planning to change the garden around, it was as if nothing had happened and she never mentioned again about giving up on life.

If I had never experienced the power to forgive in the first trivial way, I would not have understood how to help this lady.

If we do wrong then maybe it is our duty to try and ask for forgiveness so that the person we have offended will not store up all this anger in his heart.

On the television some time ago there was a lady who said that she forgave the person who had killed her son in a racially motivated attack with an axe. She said forgiving was the Christian thing to do and I can understand how this would help her live her life despite the murder of her son.
By her actions she has tested the conscience of all the white people in her area who do not hate blacks.

If we cannot forgive and store up anger in our hearts, then maybe God will judge us by this same measure.

Maybe as we learn how to forgive then we can come to some small understanding of how God can be even more forgiving.

in the spirit of seeking peace and reconciliation for all people

Eric
Greetings Eric,

Thank you for sharing that. You are definitely a good man. I agree that we should learn to forgive too. The prophet (pbuh) use to do it all the time, why shouldnt we. You have also given a very good example of how it could benefit us. Here are two verses from the Quran that support that:

"That which you have been given is but a fleeting comfort of this life. Better and more enduring is that which Allah has for those who believe and put their trust in Him; who avoid gross sins and indecencies and, when angered, are willing to forgive; who obey their Lord, attend to their prayers, and conduct their affairs by mutual consent; who bestow in alms a part of that which We have given them and, when oppressed, seek to redress their wrongs. [Al-Qur'an, Sura: 42 (Ash-Shura), Ayat: 36-39] "

"[It is a mercy from Allah that you were gentle with them. If you had been rough or hard of heart, they would have scattered from around you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them … ] (Aal `Imran 3:159"

Peace.
Reply

Gator
02-06-2008, 12:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdul Majid
ok so let me be quiet and watch as thousands of innoceent people die ?! ?! ?!

its not constructive i agree, but if your leaders promote killing and such, then what are the people supposed to think???

leaders like bush wanna conquer everythnig, but watta bout the us???
is it perfect yet???
how many people could bush have saved from wolrd hunger with that war money???
and so on....
Be as loud as you can, but the world is not black and white and hate blinds you.
Here's your kind of thinking from the other side -

leaders like ahmedinejad, hussein and bin laden want to kill everyone, can't we defend ourselves? Do you know how much good they could do if they weren't megalomaniacs bent on killing US citizens, slaughtering every Israeli and helping to kill millions of muslims in Iraq & Afghanistan?

And after this crazed rhetoric, then where are we? What grounds can we use from those statements to start solving the problem?

I think the OP is just trying to get people to think about it and it was a good job. The results of the poll are hopeful, so far.

Thanks.
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