DID YOU KNOW that the bible curses those who remove and add!!

[abdul Majid]

Bible Curses Church Fathers Who REMOVED Book of Revelations

There is at the end of the Bible a verse which says:

Rev 22:18 "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book (Revelations): if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book:
19. And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, god shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. [Y. Estes]

“Let anyone who takes away from this book or adds to this book be cursed”. This to is sometimes pointed to me saying: Here is where it sums itself as a whole. But look again and you will see that when it says: Let no one change this book, it is talking about that last book, #66 (or is it #73 in the Catholic Bible?), the Book of Revelation. It has too, because any reference will tell you that the Book of Revelation was written before certain other parts of the Bible were written. It happens today to be stacked at the end, but there are other parts that came after, so it can not be referring to the entire book.

(Incidentally, according to different manuscripts much older than the King James Version, there are different words at the end of the Book of Revelation, so how would we resolve that matter? - Y.E.)

Note: The Book of Revelation was taken out of the Bible several times and then replaced and then taken out and replaced according to various Church Councils throughout Church history. Guess the Church Fathers didn't read the curse at the end of the book?


It is an extreme position held only by some Christian groups that the Bible – in its entirety - cover to cover is the revealed word of God in every word, but they do a clever thing when they mention this, or make this claim. They will say that the Bible in its entirety is the word of God; inerrant (no mistakes) in the original writings.

So if you go to the Bible and point out some mistakes that are in it you are going to be told: Those mistakes were not there in the originalmanuscript, they have crept in so that we see them there today.



They are going on problem in that position. There is a verse in the Bible Isaiah 40:8 which in fact is so well known that some Bibles printed it on the inside front cover as an introduction and it says : “ The grass weathers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever”. Here is a claim in the Bible that the word of God will stand forever, it will not be corrupted, it won't be lost. So if today you find a mistake in the Bible you have two choices. Either that promise was false that when God said my word wont fade away, he was mistaken, or the portion which has the mistake in it was not a part of the word of God in the first place, because the promise was that it would be safeguarded, it would not be corrupted.

[Michael Samuel]

So if you go to the Bible and point out some mistakes that are in it you are going to be told: Those mistakes were not there in the originalmanuscript, they have crept in so that we see them there today. [/B]

If you're saying that the Bible may be inerrant because it was translated by humans, then why do you not place the Koran on the same shaky ground? Was it not translated by man so that other men could read it?

I believe the Bible is God's Word because it has never led me wrong and never led me astray. It correctly diagnoses the problem I share with the rest of humanity — sin. The Bible points toward the remedy for this problem — a right relationship with God the Father. The Bible explains how I may have that right relationship with God the Father — through Christ the Son.

God has ordered things in the world so that I have to have faith in order to follow. Faith tells me the Bible is inerrant, but I have also used my reason to closely examine it and come away with the conclusion that it is indeed God's living Word.

Peace be with you all.

[abdul Majid]

If you're saying that the Bible may be inerrant because it was translated by humans, then why do you not place the Koran on the same shaky ground? Was it not translated by man so that other men could read it?

I believe the Bible is God's Word because it has never led me wrong and never led me astray. It correctly diagnoses the problem I share with the rest of humanity — sin. The Bible points toward the remedy for this problem — a right relationship with God the Father. The Bible explains how I may have that right relationship with God the Father — through Christ the Son.

Peace be with you all.

NO THE QURAN DOESNT NEED TO BE TRANSLATED, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT..AND ITS NOT LOST, WE HAVE THE ORIGINAL WHICHS INCLUDES IN IT THE REAL BIBLE ALMOST SINCE 1400 YEARS AGO

[Michael Samuel]

NO THE QURAN DOESNT NEED TO BE TRANSLATED, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT..AND ITS NOT LOST, WE HAVE THE ORIGINAL WHICHS INCLUDES IN IT THE REAL BIBLE ALMOST SINCE 1400 YEARS AGO

What language is it written in?
Would I need to learn the language to read the original?

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[abdul Majid]

Yes Sir, But Its Free From Corruption Thats The Idea, If The Bible You Have Was Original Then I Wouldnt Say A Word To You, But How Can You Follow Blindly What Someone Else Has Changed For His Own Ideas Or Comfort

[Michael Samuel]

But Any Way The Thread Is About Cursing People Who Changed The Bible.....so If You Wanna Talk About That And The Info Upthere Go Ahead

PEACE WITH YOU

I understand perfectly well what the thread is about, my friend.
Anyone who seeks to alter or change the Word of God is, in effect, trying to make themselves God. That is obviously a grave sin that God condemns.
Do you believe it is OK for man to try to make himself God?
What universe did man create, my friend?

[abdul Majid]

Yea I Agree With You Mike 100%, It Is Not Ok For Man To Try To Make Himself Or Herself God, Mike Christians And Muslims Have So Much In Common When It Comes To Religion.......so Do Jews....becuase We All Beleive In One God, But Certian Things Happened Through The Years That We Have To Stay Away From, Which Is People Altering Religion

PEACE BE WITH YOU

[Michael Samuel]

Yes Sir, But Its Free From Corruption Thats The Idea, If The Bible You Have Was Original Then I Wouldnt Say A Word To You, But How Can You Follow Blindly What Someone Else Has Changed For His Own Ideas Or Comfort

How do you know it's free from corruption?
Were you there when it was written?
The same faith that I must have to believe the Bible is inerrant also applies to the Quran, my friend. I acknowledge that the Bible was written by multiple authors over a long period of time. The Bible has been translated multiple times so that I and others may read and understand it.
What is important, however, is that the Bible is the Word of God, and He has carefully prevented the intent of His Word from ever being lost or altered.

And please don't speak to me about blind faith. You are insulting me and you don't know a thing about me other than the fact that I am Christian. You don't know how my faith has been tested. That is between my Savior and I.

[Michael Samuel]

Yea I Agree With You Mike 100%, It Is Not Ok For Man To Try To Make Himself Or Herself God, Mike Christians And Muslims Have So Much In Common When It Comes To Religion.......so Do Jews....becuase We All Beleive In One God, But Certian Things Happened Through The Years That We Have To Stay Away From, Which Is People Altering Religion

PEACE BE WITH YOU

We do agree on that, my friend, and I think we all have much in common.
Peace be with you also! Now, I intend to retire for the evening.

[abdul Majid]

before you go mike i wanted to tell you about the corruption thing, there is something called a chain of narrators, and the quran was compiled of all the verses that were released from GOD , so there is no corruption,

since 1400 years its been the same since it came out it never changed...no prove of that annyway

but otherwise for the bible where there are many versions and so forth ....
talk to you later my friend

[renak]

What language is it written in?
Would I need to learn the language to read the original?

Since the Quran was written in Arabic, we would need to learn Arabic before we could actually understand the meaning correctly.

I'm getting a lot of different answers to the various questions I'm asking. I've been told that the such and such quote from the Quran was mistranslated...so I should not believe it. Therefore, it is seems to me that due to translation, the Quran has been corrupted. Does this make sense?

I would imagine that many of the corrupted verses in the bible are also due to mistranslation. The early church leaders were working with Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek (perhaps other languages). It would be a difficult task.

[renak]

[QUOTEsince 1400 years its been the same since it came out it never changed...no prove of that annyway

[/QUOTE]

Is it not true that the translation into different languages changed the meaning of the Quran? This is what I'm being told by different muslims.

[abdul Majid]

im not talking about a translation, im talking about the language it is in !!

[renak]

im not talking about a translation, im talking about the language it is in !!

I'm understanding you to say that the Quran (in Arabic only) has not been changed from the beginning of its inscription. Is this correct?

This has me wondering if the early articles which compose the books of the Holy Bible were ever changed, before they had to be translated. I don't actually know. I'll have to look into this.

[abdul Majid]

I'm understanding you to say that the Quran (in Arabic only) has not been changed from the beginning of its inscription. Is this correct?
.

yes

[renak]

NO THE QURAN DOESNT NEED TO BE TRANSLATED, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT..AND ITS NOT LOST, WE HAVE THE ORIGINAL WHICHS INCLUDES IN IT THE REAL BIBLE ALMOST SINCE 1400 YEARS AGO

I do not understand your statement above. The Quran would have to be translated in order for it to be understood by anyone who was not fluent in Arabic.

I do know that many of the religious texts which were considered, but did not make it into the the holy bible were destroyed. I'm not aware that the original texts which made it into the holy bible were ever destroyed. Do you know this to be true?

[renak]

before you go mike i wanted to tell you about the corruption thing, there is something called a chain of narrators, and the quran was compiled of all the verses that were released from GOD , so there is no corruption,

since 1400 years its been the same since it came out it never changed...no prove of that annyway

but otherwise for the bible where there are many versions and so forth ....
talk to you later my friend

I think you are implying in this post that due to the many versions this proves the bible to have been corrupted? Is this true?

[abdul Majid]

I do not understand your statement above. The Quran would have to be translated in order for it to be understood by anyone who was not fluent in Arabic.

I do know that many of the religious texts which were considered, but did not make it into the the holy bible were destroyed. I'm not aware that the original texts which made it into the holy bible were ever destroyed. Do you know this to be true?

ok your right if you dont know arabic, you would need it to be translated to the best possible translation, so its not misinterpreted....so i dunno why i wrote that above lol

Both the Bible and the Quran have come to us by way of Almighty God, then through His angel Gabriel and then to the prophets, peace be upon them. However, when the next step comes into play (that of the human beings faithfully transmitting it on to others and future generations) we find out that Allah has only perserved His Last and Final Revelation for all times. And He certainly did not need the humans to do that.

It seems to me that the Bible and the Quran are most definitely from the exact same source and they compliment each other very nicely. In fact, it appears that the Bible does not contradict the Quran, except in the very same places where the Bible contradicts itself.

[renak]

But Any Way The Thread Is About Cursing People Who Changed The Bible.....so If You Wanna Talk About That And The Info Upthere Go Ahead

PEACE WITH YOU

The beauty about the bible, if one does not feel that it is the inerrant word of God (and this is true of many Christians), is that it is open to interpretation. A Christian can believe the book to mean ANYTHING they want it to. The Book of Revelations is believed by many Christians, and scholars to be a revelation about the persecution of jews and christians by the Roman Empire. The Book of Revelations was written in year AD 68-96 (still being disputed). Amazingly, shortly after this time period, the Roman Empire did rise up and kill many jews and christians. Thus, the warnings in the Book of Revelations have already been met.

Perhaps its author (John) felt the need to curse anyone who would tamper with the apocalyptic book, since the people of his time period needed to be warned of the great persecution from the Roman Empire, which was about to happen.

[abdul Majid]

The beauty about the bible, if one does not feel that it is the inerrant word of God (and this is true of many Christians), is that it is open to interpretation. A Christian can believe the book to mean ANYTHING they want it to. The Book of Revelations is believed by many Christians, and scholars to be a revelation about the persecution of jews and christians by the Roman Empire. The Book of Revelations was written in year AD 68-96 (still being disputed). Amazingly, shortly after this time period, the Roman Empire did rise up and kill many jews and christians. Thus, the warnings in the Book of Revelations have already been met.

Perhaps its author (John) felt the need to curse anyone who would tamper with the apocalyptic book, since the people of his time period needed to be warned of the great persecution from the Roman Empire, which was about to happen.

yea renak your right, now ISLAM is the last and final religion, it is for mankind as a whole, not only arabs...infact arabs make only 15% of it, true story..

christianity is somewhat lost you can say, its not what it used to be at the time of JESUS(Peace be upon him) , people started worshiping him and even in christianity and jewish faiths it is a big sin to take others in worship with GOD....

So now ISLAM is the religion to clarify all mistakes and is to be followed by mankind...i mean to beleive in GOD is what were about, ISLAM is submission to your lord....and to beleive in ALL the prophets who were sent here on a mission to convey the truth....that there GOD is ONE !!

[Michael Samuel]

Since the Quran was written in Arabic, we would need to learn Arabic before we could actually understand the meaning correctly.

I'm getting a lot of different answers to the various questions I'm asking. I've been told that the such and such quote from the Quran was mistranslated...so I should not believe it. Therefore, it is seems to me that due to translation, the Quran has been corrupted. Does this make sense?

I would imagine that many of the corrupted verses in the bible are also due to mistranslation. The early church leaders were working with Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek (perhaps other languages). It would be a difficult task.

Thanks, Renak. You picked up on where I was leading with my questions. To read the original Quran, I would need to be able to read Arabic quite fluently, and I can't.

[abdul Majid]

you cant compare the corruption of the bible to a quran!!

the quran is not corrupt, its ORIGINAL!!!

THIS CLAIM OF YOURS IS NONSENSE

[*Hana*]

Thanks, Renak. You picked up on where I was leading with my questions. To read the original Quran, I would need to be able to read Arabic quite fluently, and I can't.

Peace Michael:

The point you're failing to miss is that we can go back to the original source to confirm or clarify translations to other languages. I have an option of learning Arabic to read the Qur'an in it's original language.

On the other hand, Christians can try to learn Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, etc., and it would be useless because no original exists. You don't have the originating source to go back to.

Peace,
Hana

[renak]

Peace Michael:

The point you're failing to miss is that we can go back to the original source to confirm or clarify translations to other languages. I have an option of learning Arabic to read the Qur'an in it's original language.

On the other hand, Christians can try to learn Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, etc., and it would be useless because no original exists. You don't have the originating source to go back to.

Peace,
Hana

Who told you that no original texts exist? Do you no this to be true, or is this just what you've been told?

[*Hana*]

Who told you that no original texts exist? Do you no this to be true, or is this just what you've been told?

This is true. Any originals were destroyed or disappeared. There's not a Christian or Biblical Scholar worth anything that would even attempt to tell you different. Why do you think there are so many changes that have taken place throughout history and why there are so many versions today (I'm not referring to translations as that is completely different.) Can you produce the original Torah? The original Zabor or Gospel? Nope, you can't.

Peace,
Hana

[renak]

This is true. Any originals were destroyed or disappeared. There's not a Christian or Biblical Scholar worth anything that would even attempt to tell you different. Why do you think there are so many changes that have taken place throughout history and why there are so many versions today (I'm not referring to translations as that is completely different.) Can you produce the original Torah? The original Zabor or Gospel? Nope, you can't.

Peace,
Hana

The Holy Bible is a compilation of various articles, and yes, some do still exist.

Some respectable scholors would even argue that the Quran has been changed. Noone will be able to prove or disprove the authenticity of the Quran.

[*Hana*]

The Holy Bible is a compilation of various articles, and yes, some do still exist.

Some respectable scholors would even argue that the Quran has been changed. Noone will be able to prove or disprove the authenticity of the Quran.

Oh, ok. The Bible is not inspired by God then, and that would certainly explain all the changes over years.

We have the original Qur'an and there's never been any proof by anyone that it has been altered. In order for them to show it's been altered, they would have to come up with another, older Qur'an to show inconsistencies....that's never been done. The Bible, however, contradicts itself and scribes have taken many liberties with its texts over the years. But, as you have just said, it's more of a history book with articles, rather than Divine Inspiration, so it makes sense it would contradict as many people have differing opinions on a similar event or follow tradition and folklore believing them to be factual.

Peace,
Hana

[mahdisoldier19]

How do you know it's free from corruption?
Were you there when it was written?
The same faith that I must have to believe the Bible is inerrant also applies to the Quran, my friend. I acknowledge that the Bible was written by multiple authors over a long period of time. The Bible has been translated multiple times so that I and others may read and understand it.
What is important, however, is that the Bible is the Word of God, and He has carefully prevented the intent of His Word from ever being lost or altered.

And please don't speak to me about blind faith. You are insulting me and you don't know a thing about me other than the fact that I am Christian. You don't know how my faith has been tested. That is between my Savior and I.

Whats funny is in Islam its a duty as a muslim to believe Jesus is the Messiah and the savior.

[abdul Majid]

The Holy Bible is a compilation of various articles, and yes, some do still exist.

Some respectable scholors would even argue that the Quran has been changed. Noone will be able to prove or disprove the authenticity of the Quran.

THAT IS A LIE !!! NO PROVE, ITS SAD THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO LIE !!

[renak]

THAT IS A LIE !!! NO PROVE, ITS SAD THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO LIE !!

No my dear, it's sad that you would have to resort to offensive statements when you've made no attempt to disprove what I've said.

[abdul Majid]

?? offensive??? i wouldnt try to offend you even if you cursed my out, lol !!!

quote," Some respectable scholors would even argue that the Quran has been changed. No one will be able to prove or disprove the authenticity of the Quran"" .unquote

ummm that is a lie !!! we can prove it, we been proving it no one wants to listen !!

it says,"that they would ARGUEEEE" !~!!! ofcorse they would, becuase its a lie and there trying to prove a lie !!

[mahdisoldier19]

Dont bother debating with some of the people on this board seriously. Whenever you prove them the information, they google somethign else to refute it. Then when they dont find anything they run and chase another thread. I noticed that among a few people. Only Gibson actually reattracts with something but not an arguement more like a comment trying to make it an arguement. But i like gibson very nice guy learning about Islam. But others on this board? whats your deal? Muhammad pbuh, Islam both mentioned in the bible and you still dont believe? Jesus pbuh and the virgin mary pubher are mentioned in the Quran and you still dont believe? We believe in the same messangers and you still dont believe? What kind of logic is this seriously?