Yes he is a strict Muslim

[WesternCanuck]

So as I reported to you guys on Friday, I found out that an old friend has converted to Sunni Islam.....and seemingly a very strict Islam indeed.

Bear in mind that my dear old friend was your classic liberal athiest western european who has now gone the exact opposite and is a staunch Islam...

So...this is how the day went....

Remember that I am a Christian and that I will have different concerns then some of my secular friends here....but their were many things that we will all agree on...

The general picture of my friend.....he is absolutely sold on Islam...he is fervert too say the least...when I met him, he of course had the beard of Islam....he wore even Arabic clothing and those little hats they have on top of their heads...he had just returned from the mousque...

I basically let him talk and share his story....I wanted too find out where and far he was and is into islam.....which is far....

The disconcerting things for me was the absolute focus on the Jews as a evil menace........the Jews were behind so much evil in the world....incredibly he doesn't believe that the Holocaust happened and that the Jews were behind Hitler ...he believes the Jews are behind 9-11 and the mousque bombing last week in Iraq and that the Jews are trying too get Christians and Muslims fighting so the Jews will takeover...

He believes that Islam will one day rule the world...and our country of Canada of course.....I tried to reason with him as someone who like myself is quite conservative and share some of the common issues we will agree with....I said to my friend that I agree that drugs,pornography,abortion etc etc are things I staunchly disagree with and I tried to get him too see that these things are not some province of one ethnic group (jews) to wipe us out.......I tried to point out their are evil people in every race and so forth....

Well.....he really wouldn't have it.....the Jews seem too be the focus of all evil.........He said when he read the Quran that he was blown away by the revelation that the Jews were behind so much nefarious activity in human history etc etc....

Simply, their wasn't really any way of getting him too see around this issue and I simply let him speak...

I tried throwing some historical issues at him like how Christ was crucified and that secular and sacred history agree on that and that the Quran is plainly wrong here....

Again, he wouldn't have any of it...........He plainly said too me that if it is in the QURAN, he believes it and that is settled.....yikes....

On a positive note.........even though he studies the Sunnah and agrees with the Hadiths and Sira et al, he believes that the idea of killing apostates is wrong and that they are false hadiths...

Also, regards to Aisha young marriage, he simply beleives the Hadiths are wrong....His thinking was that how could a holy prophet of God ever be interested in a 9 year old girl..........I sat their quietly and I pondered........I pointed out that their is more then one hadith that points out to Muhammed's marriage to a young Aisha but he simply believes that they are false hadiths.....

He kinda picks and chooses which hadiths he likes and does away with the ones that go against his sensibilities.....

He doesn't necessarily agree with Hamas or Hizballah blowing up jewish civilians but he can understand that they do it....he believes that Islam doesn't teach violence towards non muslims.....

He of course quoted the verse from the Quran or Hadith about you have your religion and I have mine etc etc........I pointed out too him that those are abrogated verses but again he didn't agree....

My dear old friend......who never had a thing bad too say about Jews before now see's them as inherently evil.........I tried again to point out that some of the things are perhaps cultural and thus are open to change but he honestly beleives that the Jew inherently is bad... ...

Folks.....this man has come from radical liberalism now to this.....

I will stand by my friend always and try to help him and today was more or less getting reacquainted and getting to know where he is....their will be more meetings down the line..........

As a man breathes, their is always hope......

[abdul Majid]

i see where your goin with this !!

[WesternCanuck]

Yes I pointed out too him about Authentic Hadith collections versus non authentic and that the Burkari are graded very high.....He agreed with me but he thinks that those hadiths about Aisha are a mistake or have been planted by the enemies of Islam....

Yes, I did ask him about how he came too Islam and what attracted him to it.........he pointed out that that its pure monothiesm was the first thing....and then the reading of the Quran....circumstances in life in general and so forth.......From my Christian perspective I asked him why he didn't go to Christ as opposed to Muhammed and he shared the commonly held Islamic views of christianity and the usual stuff....

And yes, I will never give up on him..... their are some chinks in his armor........

The one thing that really concerns me is the conspiracy view of the world and how the Jews are behind everything......he even agrees with the protocols of the elders of zion!!

I look forward to future meetings to be sure!

[itsme01]

Hey WesternCanuck,

May i know where you are from? I would like to meet this "friend" of yours.

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[WesternCanuck]

my friend right now is so far gone into Islam, that anything related to the Jews is simply a conspiracy....

I had to even try and convince him that Jesus was Jewish but he really didn't accept that......he kept calling him a prophet but I tried to point out the ethnicity of the prophets and of Jesus Christ and it simply wasn't registering????????

I believe he thinks that every Jew on earth is bad news......I even asked him about the Orthodox or Hasidim or practicing Jews and he said more or less that they are all false etc etc...

I can't say that I wasn't fascinated by what he was saying because I read about this stuff on Islamic sites all the time but to have it said too me clearly and seriously to my face was an all together new experience!

Whilst I saw glimpses of my old friend and his affable and fun nature, I was simply astonished by some of his new ideas.....and that's an understatement! I on't think he is ready to meet anybody at this moment.....he has benn completely and utterly BRAINWASHED.

[Umu 'Isa]

brainwashed??
hmmm no i doubt that.
I think hes just simply found the truth. Alhumdulillah :)

[itsme01]

Canuck - so where can i meet this friend of yours.

[abdul Majid]

this guys a natural

[WesternCanuck]

..absolutely wrong...he never cared one way or another about the Jews............in fact I remember him and me challenging one of my friends who was a True Anti Semite and we called him on it...at one time, my buddy was very sympathetic to the Jews ......at worse, he never really cared one way or another......

I don't it would be a problem showing him the fallacies of his arguements or thinking but that simply wouldn't matter too my friend right now..........the Jews are the foci of all world evil....it doesn't matter what I say....

Crazy, I know all the arguements and fronts and facades Islam puts up what it feeds its followers.....

He seems to think the Jews have this incredible power to track him and try to do evil to him but Allah will protect him.....I do not want too repeat some of the things he said here but it was very shocking...

As far as what Muhammed did to the 800 jews and their beheading at Bana Qurayza, he fully agrees with that and that Muhammed was well within his right to masscre these people.......I tried to point out that most of these people if not all were simply civilians....but he would have none of it????????

He has more liberal views towards hindus and buddhists and athiests as he believes Allah will deal with them come judgement day but that Muslims should not go around killing these people.....so that was somewhat positive......

I have too be honest with your questions....your posing them as a rational person but your asking them to someone that (and I hate to say this) is not being rational or thinking things through at all????

You ask me what he would think of Hitler?? He thinks the Jews were behind Hitler??? How do I reason with such thinking????? I can't reason with these thoughts????? He doesn't think their was a holocaust?? It's all a media invention etc etc..

I think he thinks Jews are somehow born with some evil inherent in them......more so then any other person or tribe on earth???

I can't reason with that.......it's like asking me to reason or debate with someone that believes the earth is flat......it simply doesn't equate....

He got into this Jew stuff the minute he got into Islam hardcore......

I think the thing that is most scary is that my friend is not mad....I mean, he is very very lucid....and is very passionate and sincere and well measured when he speaks......he is not some stark wide eyed frothing at the mouth nut.......he comes across as a person that has bought hook line and sinker the most horrid lies that one can beleive...

I love my old buddy and I will walk with him as long as is possible.....in the meantime, I am deeply concerned....his mind has been tapered with

[abdul Majid]

so basiclly your sayin ISLAM is to blame??? !!! ??? !!!

[Abu Zakariya]

From my Christian perspective I asked him why he didn't go to Christ as opposed to Muhammed

You asked the wrong question. You should've asked him:
"Why didn't you go to Christ instead of worshipping God directly now as a Muslim?" or "Why didn't you go to a human being instead of God?"

he has benn completely and utterly BRAINWASHED.

I agree with you on this though, if what you say is true.
His hatred for anything Jewish is disturbing. I mean, the Prophets (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) wife was Jewish. Some of his Companions were (ethnic) Jews.
It seems that he has got mixed up with the wrong crowd. In my own experience, these people that say these things about Jews are Arab/Palestinian nationalists.

[songinwind]

:) A convert myself...and one that i feel was "chosen", the chance is some of us is so strong,that ones that knew us before we converted, are shocked..and not for the reasons you are seeing..as people when they can't understand...see and hear in limited ways(not hearing all)....I for one..fully understand what your friend is going thur:) ....and he is so filled with newness, and total love..you see this as kind of a threat...to what you knew him to be before.....
For me..this also happen...my family always in a threat..and i like that word you used "brainwashed":) ........I have heard this word so many times..
where infact..as long as non believers are focus on
getting us back to the old way"....They can never see or begin to understand...I think one of the funniest things i had said to me, was"why do you smile all the time":rollseyes ..."life is beautiful" I said...the responce was' " what has happen to you"...and than it begins....so as they try to pick me apart(kinda like u did)...I sit and smile:) .........why don't u, next time, just go have coffee..and talk...and not on anything, concerning religion...see his face glow...see the smiles...really see him:)
Only one thing I can say to you...I see your friend, a strong muslim, "chosen"---and nothing you say will change this inside him, as our hearts are filled with love for God....peace to you.

[WesternCanuck]

Amazing how the submitting yourself to the devil can change a man.

Because who hates the Jews more than satan? Through the Jews all of his plans were wrecked through the saving Blood of Christ.

Those of you who do not believe in these things should look at it from this perspective...

Even if you dont believe, understand this is WHY muslims hates Jews..anyway some of us work tomorrow so to bed I go to ponder how my friend could have let himself hit rock bottom and then continue to show signs of digging into bedrock.....

[abdul Majid]

oh the devil does alot, thats his job, especially worshiping others besides GOD !

[Mohsin]

Salam

Firstly we don't hate all jews. They are called people of the book and we respect them. But we do believe some children of israel have been bad in the past, they have killed the prophets God sent them, and they have knowingly disoeyed God, it is even mentioned in the Old Testament itself some stories about this. the problem to be honest today is because of the whole palestine-israel issue. Nobody in their right mind is going to say israel are right, but a lot of people use israel as an example and say all jews are like this, which is not untrue. there are so many jews that have spoken out against what Israel stand for. I think the problem for your friend is since he's become a muslim, because of his greater care now for his muslim brothers and sisters, he feels they are being treted more harshly and unfortunately has got this jew hate thing going. Regarding the holocaust, i dont know why he believes that didn't happen, but certainly not all muslims think like he does, as with 9/11, we do accept there are muslims with slightly distorted jihad views who believe killing innocents are ok, which the majority of us muslims are against

Regarding the crucifxion, we don't deny the crucfixion of someone taking place, we believe God saved Jesus PBUH, and put the likeness of him onto someone else

Regarding 'Aisha's marriage, there is a whole discussion just for that tyopic here which shows how their relationship was not wrong in anyway
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...phet-pbuh.html

Tell him to read it, inshallah he'll see how although it may seem normal to us, but in actual fact it was a pefectly normal relationship. remind him scholars have been studying hadith for years and years and he's only recently converted, so it's slightly, lets say arrogant, to say with his limited information and knowledge that he's right, and all these scholars for the past 1400 years have all been wrong

He of course quoted the verse from the Quran or Hadith about you have your religion and I have mine etc etc........I pointed out too him that those are abrogated verses but again he didn't agree....

Can you explain what you mean here, as far as i know these aren't abrogated

[itsme01]

WESTERN CANUCK - THIS IS THE THIRD TIME AND LAST TIME I AM GONA ASK: WHERE CAN I MEET THIS FRIEND OF YOURS

[north_malaysian]

Jews, Arabs, Eskimos are earthlings. We should be ok with each others. I believe The Koran was given to the mankind, but in the same time it's the FINAL REMINDER for Jews to repent to G_d. This shows G_d still love the Jews that he sent reminder.

[F.Y.]

Hello
The story is indeed disturbing. If you read my other answer on your first post 'Feeling Confused', you'll remember I gave you a hadith: Once the Prophet was seated at some place in Madinah, along with his Companions. During this time a funeral procession passed by. On seeing this, the Prophet stood up. One of his Companion remarked that the funeral was that of a Jew. The Prophet replied, “Was he not a human being?” (Bukhari, Muslim)

His intentions in being a muslim are good, but he might have 'lost it' somewhere along the way. Let me tell you this: Islam is perfect - muslims however, are not.

Bear in mind that my dear old friend was your classic liberal athiest western european who has now gone the exact opposite and is a staunch Islam...

It seems to me that although you profess to have a sound knowledge of Islamic matters, you couldnt be further from the truth. You havent even used the correct noun above. It is not "...exact opposite and is a staunch Islam." The correct noun, my friend, is "...staunch Muslim." A person who professes the Oneness of Almighty God and is a believer in all the Prophets from Adam to Muhammad peace be upon them all, is called a Muslim. The way of life of a muslim, is called Islam.

Hope that helps. Maybe you should change your sources of information - like at least critically examine what the news and media is offering you.

Peace to you

[mizan_aliashraf]

Jews, Arabs, Eskimos are earthlings. We should be ok with each others. I believe The Koran was given to the mankind, but in the same time it's the FINAL REMINDER for Jews to repent to G_d. This shows G_d still love the Jews that he sent reminder.

Could you please expand on that.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

hmm, its true the jews have done a lot in the past but personally i wouldnt hate the individual jews just the ones i know to be doing wrong! I think your friend has gone into a bad crowd. Tell him to stop focussing his mind on the jews and firstly to try memorise the qur'an, understand it and learn the teachings of islam. Before going into politics one should make his faith very strong and become as pious as possible!!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

wheres is this friend of yours?

[WesternCanuck]

.....still a bit confused about that one

[WesternCanuck]

WESTERN CANUCK - THIS IS THE THIRD TIME AND LAST TIME I AM GONA ASK: WHERE CAN I MEET THIS FRIEND OF YOURS

I will be happy to tell you that information if my friend wants to....communicate with you.Please provide an email and HE can contact you.

[WesternCanuck]

This Muslim is led astray by people who converted him to Islam.... Allah did not guide him to a path of righeousness but to the path of misguded and lost people, satan worshippers.

It seems that his unfounded and illogical hatred for jews,... his belief that Koran sanctions hatred of jews does not seem to bother you. Allah can not forgive Jews? Is Allah so vengeful that he will condemn all Jews because of the war between them and prophet's followers 1400 years ago? Are all jews marked for eternity because some did not follow the prophet? You mean to say that they will be condemned for ever till they convert and start hating their ancestors?

What kind of peace of mind Islam offered to this middle age lost white man? What kind of humility he was preached by his Muslim guides and friends? This man went out of his way to rant about some kind of jewish conspiracy when he met his friend after a long time. Did he become muslim so that he can hate Jews? Then why in Public Muslims talk about interfaith dialog? I am not Muslims a but I know many in that mosque where this white guy got converted. Many from India and Pakistan talk same language after going to this mosque for few years. One Muslim from India told me that a Syrian praying next to him will always rant aboiut jews after prayers, during his informal talk. When Mr. Suhrawardi of this mosque talk in public, he wants dialog and cooperation of all faiths. Watch his TV show.

Well only way to teach these brain washed Muslims converts a lesson is to tell them that Mohemmed was a jew, part of Jewish conspiracy to screw ME & the world . If faced with absurd statement they keep quiet and go away.

[WesternCanuck]

Well, Islam and Jews have a very bad history to begin with....of course the Quran says they are people of the book but their is much against the Jews in Islamic writings and traditions....

And considering that Imams the world over daily seem too be focused on demonizing the Jews, I suppose one shouldn't be surprised by many Muslims hatred of world Jewry.....

I asked him over and over are you referring just to Israel or worldwide Jewry and he made it clear that worldwide, the Jews are behind all sorts of evil.......this wasn't just an issue with Israel....far far from it...

I will be sure to follow up with more questions on this matter to be sure!

I can't really say about his mental background or psychiatric state.....All I can say he was a classic hedonistic western liberal athiest who now looks like he wouldn't be out of place in Arabia with his dress and ideas...

I mean don't get me wrong...I really enjoyed my time with him and saw some glimpses of his sense of humour and fun....he's my buddy and mate regardless of what he believes.....I wouldn't be much of a person or friend if I abandoned someone because they believe something that I totally disagree with.....

I thought about him all night and I even had a mildly amusing dream about him last night.......I look forward to future meetings where I hope I can be of help to my friend....

[DaNgErOuS MiNdS]

If you managed to make your friend change his views on jews and he didn't think they are evil as he first made out to be and the holocaust did happen, would you then accept him for accepting Islam?

[WesternCanuck]

.... I withstood him to his face and disagreed with him plainly on his views of the Jews and other things....

I do not know his views on woman or many other issues....you can understand in a 2 hour meeting I couldn't cover everything with him...

I will not abandon someone because I find many of their views wrong.......were supposed to be helping people, not throwing them away........my actions and words are not condoning what my old friend is saying....

....yes he does discount or discredit some of the hadiths to his way of thinking but he has latched onto some pretty extreme views that we would normally consider to be part of mainstream Islamic thinking.......not the least, his ideas on Jewry....and other things of course....

From what I could gather in my short time, I do not think my friend the violent type nor the type to go join the Taliban or anything like that.......though I am not sure whether or not he supports that type of Islam......

I have much to learn myself regarding my buddy....

[Issa]

You know whats funny? WC, you talked of him hating Jews and you are outraged but you said some pretty farfetched and hateful things about Islam.
What is the difference?
Islam doesnt condone hatred any more than Christianity. People teach hatred. The Islamic population doesnt feel the exact same as your friend, I assure you.

[snakelegs]

WESTERN CANUCK - THIS IS THE THIRD TIME AND LAST TIME I AM GONA ASK: WHERE CAN I MEET THIS FRIEND OF YOURS

you can not meet him because he lives in w.c.'s head.

[snakelegs]

[QUOTE=WesternCanuck;211594]Well, Islam and Jews have a very bad history to begin with....of course the Quran says they are people of the book but their is much against the Jews in Islamic writings and traditions....
QUOTE]

this is not true. jews and muslims have bad history only since zionism.
as far as i'm concerned, you blew it when you said why couldn't my friend have chosen some other religion instead of terrorist blah blah blah
i think this thread, as well as the other one you started on the same topic, is comletely bogus.

[Mohsin]

Lol you been clocked

[F.Y.]

Hi WesternCanuck
It seems like you are ignoring and not responding to what we have to say. You have come in with your own preconceived ideas, and seem to ignore us when we narrate something to you that goes against the biased ideas you have about muslims in your head. Dont judge Islam through the actions of some muslims, necessarily. Put your prejudices aside and try to see Islam.

Peace to you

[WesternCanuck]

Hi WesternCanuck
It seems like you are ignoring and not responding to what we have to say. You have come in with your own preconceived ideas, and seem to ignore us when we narrate something to you that goes against the biased ideas you have about muslims in your head. Dont judge Islam through the actions of some muslims, necessarily. Put your prejudices aside and try to see Islam.

Peace to you

Not...at all.....I ummm feel like I am not getting through the message that Islam is a cult.....a cult that should be made illegal.Do you not see the obvious.

[Mohsin]

Not...at all.....I ummm feel like I am not getting through the message that Islam is a cult.....a cult that should be made illegal.Do you not see the obvious.

Can you show just one, just one bad thing about islam, not aout some people who are muslim, or some revert, but about the actual religion. Give us one reason why it should be made illegal

[Ghazi]

Not...at all.....I ummm feel like I am not getting through the message that Islam is a cult.....a cult that should be made illegal.Do you not see the obvious.

Salaam

Listen here, your friend has imbraced islam, what he does with his life is his choice and I'm happy to call him my brother, and how dare you call islam a cult, if you wanna debate with people don't insult them.

[Abu Zakariya]

Islam didn't tell him to hate Jews.
If it did, it would have been telling him to hate his mother.
If I, as a Muslim, hated Jews I would be hating my own mother.
You see, the Prophet's (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) wives are called our mothers and the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was married to a Jewess. I don't hate my mother.
So please, stop with your nonsense.

What is discusting on the other hand, is your worship of human beings instead of our Cretor and Lord: God Almighty.
Even if Muslims were Jew-haters (which they aren't allowed to be), it would be horrible and an injustice to mankind.
However, polytheism is an injustice against God, so your worship of a human being is what you should be conserned about.

[Mohsin]

However, polytheism is an injustice against God, so your worship of a human being is what you should be conserned about.

Lol good reply! ;D

[snakelegs]

Not...at all.....I ummm feel like I am not getting through the message that Islam is a cult.....a cult that should be made illegal.Do you not see the obvious.

you came here (and on the other thread you made on the same topic) with this phony story about your dear friend becoming a muslim and how concerned you were. (why couldn't he have chosen a different religion etc etc blah blah)
the reason is obvious - you used this as a platform to preach against islam.
you have no integrity and just want to spread your opinion about islam.
so, now you have and we all know what you think.
"mission" accomplished?

[snakelegs]

I really donno who this WesternCanuck dude is but there is one difference I do know between him and me.

He has a buddy who is a muzzie.

I am in Iraq and I chase and shoot muzzies.:happy: :happy: :happy: :happy:



His story is at http://www.-----------------/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18446

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

you're an even worse nut case than i thought!

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Well, he certainly doesn't represent sunnis as a majority. I don't agree with much that this man says, except about not being violent to non-Muslims. The apostate hadiths are not false, neither are the hadiths about Aisha (ra)'s marriage. It is haram to pick and chose. We have to change ourselves to suit Islam, not vice versa. Jews are not the epitamy of evil, there are good and bad jews, just as there are good and bad Muslims. He may feel very passionate because of what is going on in Palestine, but he must not let his anger take over him and control his mind.
God knows better than mankind, so he is right to believe the Qur'an. He obviously belives it is the word of God, so that is understandable.
Allah knows best.
-Peace

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

This Muslim is led astray by people who converted him to Islam.... Allah did not guide him to a path of righeousness but to the path of misguded and lost people, satan worshippers.

It seems that his unfounded and illogical hatred for jews,... his belief that Koran sanctions hatred of jews does not seem to bother you. Allah can not forgive Jews? Is Allah so vengeful that he will condemn all Jews because of the war between them and prophet's followers 1400 years ago? Are all jews marked for eternity because some did not follow the prophet? You mean to say that they will be condemned for ever till they convert and start hating their ancestors?

What kind of peace of mind Islam offered to this middle age lost white man? What kind of humility he was preached by his Muslim guides and friends? This man went out of his way to rant about some kind of jewish conspiracy when he met his friend after a long time. Did he become muslim so that he can hate Jews? Then why in Public Muslims talk about interfaith dialog? I am not Muslims a but I know many in that mosque where this white guy got converted. Many from India and Pakistan talk same language after going to this mosque for few years. One Muslim from India told me that a Syrian praying next to him will always rant aboiut jews after prayers, during his informal talk. When Mr. Suhrawardi of this mosque talk in public, he wants dialog and cooperation of all faiths. Watch his TV show.

Well only way to teach these brain washed Muslims converts a lesson is to tell them that Mohemmed was a jew, part of Jewish conspiracy to screw ME & the world . If faced with absurd statement they keep quiet and go away.

I can't believe I even replied to you. You, my friend, are lame.

[ShoRoUk.h.]

loser

[songinwind]

Not...at all.....I ummm feel like I am not getting through the message that Islam is a cult.....a cult that should be made illegal.Do you not see the obvious.

:? :? :? Where did you get your information that Islam is a cult??? I am now sending prayers for your friend, that Allah protects him, and increases his knowledge, ameen.........:)

[songinwind]

you're an even worse nut case than i thought!

what great investagation.....he is busted...that post in 2004, is the same as this one:giggling:

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

:? :? :? Where did you get your information that Islam is a cult??? I am now sending prayers for your friend, that Allah protects him, and increases his knowledge, ameen.........:)

Sister, how can you send prayers on someone who doesn't exist???:)

[songinwind]

Sister, how can you send prayers on someone who doesn't exist???:)

Well what can I say??Took me longer to catch on:rollseyes lol....But really someone there needs prayers..so send them anyhow:rollseyes

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

lol... yes definitely!!!!