Why is Iran upsetting God

[root]

I am curious. If God has killed 70,383 Iranians indescriminatly women children and men in Iran over the last 25 years and seriously mamed thousands more, what is Iran doing that is so bad?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4867560.stm

[DaSangarTalib]

Earthquakes that are happening these days are among the signs which Allaah uses to frighten His slaves. All the earthquakes and other things which happen and cause harm and injury to people are because of shirk and sins, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):

“And whatever of misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned. And He pardons much” [al-Shoora 42:30]

“Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allaah, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself” [al-Nisaa’ 4:79]


“And We sent not the signs except to warn” [al-Israa’ 17:59]

“We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Qur’aan) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things?” [Fussilat 41:53]

“Say: ‘He has power to send torment on you from above or from under your feet, or to cover you with confusion in party strife, and make you to taste the violence of one another.’” [al-An’aam 6:65]

Al-Bukhaari narrated in his Saheeh from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that when the aayah (interpretation of the meaning) “Say: ‘He has power to send torment on you from above” was revealed, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “A’oodhu bi wajhika (I seek refuge in Your Face”; “or from under your feet”, he said, “A’oodhu bi wajhika (I seek refuge in Your Face).” (Saheeh al-Bukhaari, 5/193).

(Abu’l-Shaykh al-Isbahaani narrated from Mujaahid concerning the Tafseer of this aayah, “Say: ‘He has power to send torment on you from above”: (this means) al-Sayhah (the shout or tumult), stones and strong wind; “or from under your feet”, (means) earthquakes and being swallowed up by the earth.)

[DaSangarTalib]

http://www.as-sahwah.com/viewarticle...rticleID=1247&

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Allah only afflicts people with they deserve and what they can bare, if they cant bare it they either die or the affliction is removed :)

PEACE

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[HeiGou]

Allah only afflicts people with they deserve and what they can bare, if they cant bare it they either die or the affliction is removed :)

That is a bit of a tautology though isn't it?

[DaSangarTalib]

no its a fact

[HeiGou]

no its a fact

A tautology can be a fact.

Is there any third option between dying and having the affliction lifted?

[DaSangarTalib]

if the person sincerely repents from his sins and goes back to the right path i.e. back to the true religion then Allah is oft forgiving and most merciful.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

That is a bit of a tautology though isn't it?

its only what you bring upon urself, Allah is just! :)

Peace!

[DaSangarTalib]

its only what you bring upon urself, Allah is just! :)

Peace!

as Allah says in the Qur'an

“And whatever of misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned. And He pardons much” [al-Shoora 42:30]

[HeiGou]

its only what you bring upon urself, Allah is just! :)

You think that the people of Iran brought this on themselves? Right down to the children who will have died?

Besides you said "Allah only afflicts people with they deserve and what they can bare, if they cant bare it they either die or the affliction is removed"

Which is meaningless because it leaves no other options. Either they can bear it or they can't. If they can't either they die or it is lifted. What option is left? It is not untrue, it is just trite in the sense that it is a statement of the obvious.

[root]

hhhmmmm,

Interesting replies. But then if Islam is the way why is it not the West that he targets? Let's face it Islam don't exactly adore the Western culture and if we look at Islamic morality then surely the west are the worse sinners (according to islam).......

Why does he seem to inflict death to children within cultures that are striving to be as Islamic as thay can yet the West could not care 2 monkeys about it, yet are left to enjoy such fruits?............

[IbnAbdulHakim]

A tautology can be a fact.

Is there any third option between dying and having the affliction lifted?

lol nope, and thats one of the proofs that Allah most certainly controls all ;)

PeAcE!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

hhhmmmm,

Interesting replies. But then if Islam is the way why is it not the West that he targets? Let's face it Islam don't exactly adore the Western culture and if we look at Islamic morality then surely the west are the worse sinners (according to islam).......

Why does he seem to inflict death to children within cultures that are striving to be as Islamic as thay can yet the West could not care 2 monkeys about it, yet are left to enjoy such fruits?............

lol i've faced this fact ages ago! i as a muslim cant stand the western culture. Due to the women i cant look anywhere apart from the floor, i avoid so many shops due to the music, you cant get on a bus wivout seeing a dirty poster sumwhere its disgusting. This civilization is slowly losing all its morals. aah ur question is very good, let me explain how it works.

The ignorant are left to enjoy there so called "fruits". They dwelve deeper and deeper till one day Allah takes it away and leaves them in despair. Do you kno why he allowed them to dwelve? So they may repent, its basically giving them a chance, when he see's that they are so ignorant that they are just lost thats when he strikes. Now lets think about all the people who have lost there so called "love" and all the people who are suffering... im sure even you root have some experience of what im talking about. Thinking ur happy doing that which is clearly wrong but then one day having it taken away... this is whats happening to the west. Its a slow process, but it happens! As for the third world countries and such they are in the same predicament, every1 has there own unique way of life, but certainly its all evaluated on an equal level.

Peace :)

[root]

This civilization is slowly losing all its morals. aah ur question is very good, let me explain how it works.

I am glad you mentioned morals:

Quote from a new UK study - The Sex and the City image of women seeking casual encounters for pleasure does not quite fit the latest research. Nine out of 10 women interviewed in-depth about their views said they thought one night stands were immoral.

Source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4863770.stm

The ignorant are left to enjoy there so called "fruits". They dwelve deeper and deeper till one day Allah takes it away and leaves them in despair. Do you kno why he allowed them to dwelve? So they may repent, its basically giving them a chance, when he see's that they are so ignorant that they are just lost thats when he strikes.

So if our punishment is coming, why is he so peeved with Iran?

im sure even you root have some experience of what im talking about. Thinking ur happy doing that which is clearly wrong but then one day having it taken away... this is whats happening to the west. Its a slow process, but it happens! As for the third world countries and such they are in the same predicament, every1 has there own unique way of life, but certainly its all evaluated on an equal level.

I am proud of the West and what has been achieved.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ btw the things i mentioned above are about "individuals". Indivuals will hav there ecstacy and hav it removed. It doesnt always happen to a huge group of people together.

:peace:

[Bittersteel]

Earthquakes are natural phenomenon.

[DaSangarTalib]

Earthquakes are natural phenomenon.

no brother they are signs from the Creator plz refer back to those ayats ive posted on page 1

[HeiGou]

Earthquakes are natural phenomenon.

Hmmm, isn't it a Muslim position that not a feather drops from a bird's wing without it being God's will? Are there any natural phenomena in Islamic science?

You might think that is a silly question but I have read changes to "Islamify" Pakistan's science curriculum.

[DaSangarTalib]

they are NOT natural phenomenon. you have to be stupid to believe that not to mention blind

[HeiGou]

they are NOT natural phenomenon. you have to be stupid to believe that not to mention blind

Well no, you just have to be a scientist or have a scientific outlook.

People do study earthquakes. They do not tend to think they are supernatural.

[DaSangarTalib]

yea from a scientist POV it will be a natural event obviously but not from Muslims POV, and Muslims shouldn't think of it as a natural phenomenon

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Well no, you just have to be a scientist or have a scientific outlook.

People do study earthquakes. They do not tend to think they are supernatural.

correction even scientists hav become muslim afta they hav discovered whats already stated in the quran :p :thankyou:

Well mayb you would change ur mind if you see just how things change in an earthquake. Lets rememba the mosques which survived in the tsuname, the Quran which was not touched in the blazing house fire.

:peace:

[HeiGou]

correction even scientists hav become muslim afta they hav discovered whats already stated in the quran :p :thankyou:

Really? Who?

Well mayb you would change ur mind if you see just how things change in an earthquake. Lets rememba the mosques which survived in the tsuname, the Quran which was not touched in the blazing house fire.

How many mosques were destroyed compared to how many were saved? And do you think there might be a natural reason why well build pukka buildings like Mosques survive while shacks people live in do not?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Really? Who?



How many mosques were destroyed compared to how many were saved? And do you think there might be a natural reason why well build pukka buildings like Mosques survive while shacks people live in do not?

didnt u see the surroundings of wat was destroyed? Im sure there were sum better built buildings lets be serious! its a miracle man!! as for the scientists who hav become muslim i'll get bak 2 u as soon as i hav the source, but i hav heard the names of a few that found out about the feotus and moon not having its own light etc to already be mentioned in the quran. Such evidences led them to become muslim Alhamdullilah!

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

All is a trial,to become better muslim.

As the verse has said,we are paid by our own deeds.
Read the Quran and read about the civilization that Allah casued to be destroyed,despite there being a Prophet with them.

Many times when these civilizations were destroyed,no one knew the reason why but Allah explain's it.


So if a muslim suffer then should you lose faith?
If you fall from rich to poor,do you lose your faith?
If you get from being well to being sick,do you lose your faith?
If you lose a loved one to death,do you lose your faith?

Faith is your own,an individual aspect in this life.

[vpb]

it's happening everywhere
tsunami,katrina , earthquake in Iran.
and we must not forget that these are one of the signs that Day of Judgement is approaching .

Allah swt knows best.
Peace

[Knut Hamsun]

It was the Jews; they burrowed under-ground and detonated nuclear warheads, thus causing the earthquakes and especially the tsunami. For Katrina, they detonated one in a special "nuclear weather machine" above the stratosphere, thus provoking a violent hurricane! And their media then "spun" the coverage against any implications of their involvement or complicity! :giggling: :hiding: :X :thankyou:

[cleo]

hhhmmmm,

Interesting replies. But then if Islam is the way why is it not the West that he targets? Let's face it Islam don't exactly adore the Western culture and if we look at Islamic morality then surely the west are the worse sinners (according to islam).......

Why does he seem to inflict death to children within cultures that are striving to be as Islamic as thay can yet the West could not care 2 monkeys about it, yet are left to enjoy such fruits?............

:grumbling

You may see the fruits of sin that the West is enjoying, but it is their choice to do so, but in the end, only their souls suffers. It is not enjoyment. Believe me.

[vpb]

(7.182) And (as to) those who reject Our communications, We draw them near (to destruction) by degrees from whence they know not.

[Joe98]

Allah only afflicts people with they deserve and what they can bare, if they cant bare it they either die or the affliction is removed

It was not afflicted by Allah. It was afllicted by the Iranian government.

Their building standards are very poor. More people will die until their building standards are improved. And it can only be done by government legislation.

-

[Joe98]

it's happening everywhere, tsunami,katrina , earthquake in Iran. and we must not forget that these are one of the signs that Day of Judgement is approaching .

There are other signs that judgement is approaching;

The Krakatoa explosion of the late 1800's

The Black Plague of 1650

The Japanes tsunami of 1365


Yep! Judgement Day will be here very soon!

-

[vpb]

joe98,

Yep! Judgement Day will be here very soon!

don't get me wrong but I thought u were an atheist.

[irsha]

earthquakes and other disasters are just accidents and forces of nature, do you think God sends them? Killing little children and others who don't deserve it? I do not. I do not believe it is a punishment or a test, its just what happens, simple.
If it is a punishment, then gee he must be angry with muslim countries, what with the tsunami and earthquakes in Iran and pakistan and Turkey etc, Katrina was just miniscule compared, so he must just be a little cranky with USA.
Nah, its just where you live. Australia doesnt get too many cyclones- especially in the south, and very few earthquakes, but is it because we are the good guys? Or just because there are no major techtonic clashes and no cyclone conditions in the south?

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

I am curious. If God has killed 70,383 Iranians indescriminatly women children and men in Iran over the last 25 years and seriously mamed thousands more, what is Iran doing that is so bad?

Why must death be a negative thing??
If children die, they are granted paradise right away since they are sinless
If believers die, they are granted paradise
No matter who dies, we need to take lesson from life and expect death.

Allah gives and Allah takes, we should have no business in asking why or how come. Be ready for it, thats it.

Say: "If the last Home, with Allah, be for you specially, and not for anyone else, then seek ye for death, if ye are sincere." But they will never seek for death, on account of the (sins) which their hands have sent on before them. and Allah is well-acquainted with the wrong-doers.-2:94-95

btw just because good doesnt happen, doesnt mean Allah is upset, rather he loves and continues to put us through trials to expect the unexpected.
'indamu la ta'lamu, Allahu A'lem

peace

[irsha]

so the more muslim a country is the more tests it gets? Hardly seems fair to me, Kinda like saying, he more you love me, the more I will hurt you.

[F.Y.]

earthquakes and other disasters are just accidents and forces of nature, do you think God sends them?

Sure, I understand the tectonic plates theory. I even agree with it. But your statement above implies that you do not believe God is in control of everything in the universe. That is a grave thing to assume.

Why do sufferings happen in this life? There are two answers.

For the believers they are a test of patience and submission to the Will of God.
All hardships in life — over which we have no control — thus become an opportunity for gaining rewards in the hereafter by exercising patience. Islam, as we know very well, means submission to Allah. It means submission to the Command of Allah in areas within our control. It means submission to the Will of Allah in areas beyond our control.

For the sinners they are a punishment. But even this punishment will turn out to be a mercy for those who heed the wake-up call and mend their ways; it will spare them the much greater punishment in the hereafter.
http://www.jamiat.co.za/special/natural_disasters.htm

Thats the gist of it anyway.
Peace

[irsha]

Little children dying not a negative thing? Seriously, Islam is such a long way from the rest of us.
IBy the way, I didnt say God is not in control, I just dont believe he causes suffering as a test, things just happen, God helps us deal with them

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
lol at this entire thread. You think you can really understand why or why not God does something. It's foolish to continue this debate: We know nothing compared to God.

(sorry, i didn't mean to sound like a crazy ayatollah.)

[Knut Hamsun]

lol at this entire thread. You think you can really understand why or why not God does something. It's foolish to continue this debate: We know nothing compared to God.

I have to fully agree with this! In a universe as incomprehensibly vast as ours is, the selfish theism revealed by humans on earth is an entirely absurd notion, in my opinion. We really do know nothing compared to "god".

[HeiGou]

Why must death be a negative thing??
If children die, they are granted paradise right away since they are sinless
If believers die, they are granted paradise
No matter who dies, we need to take lesson from life and expect death.

But is there a lesson for non-Muslims too? In both South-East Asia and in Pakistan the West rushed aid to help the victims. I think we thought this was a good thing and no doubt saved many children's lives. But do you think that this was a bad thing? After all many of those children who were saved will not grow up to be good Muslims and may burn in Hell for it forever. So have we, in fact, by trying to help, damned them for all eternity? Do you think we ought to keep our aid to ourselves and not help children in need?

[F.Y.]

Little children dying not a negative thing? Seriously, Islam is such a long way from the rest of us.
IBy the way, I didnt say God is not in control, I just dont believe he causes suffering as a test, things just happen, God helps us deal with them

Errr...no, I don't think I said children dying wasn't a negative thing. Of course it is negative - it is heartbreaking. It must be devastating to be the parent of a child who died. People have feelings, we are human, dying is also a part of life and grieving for loved ones is accepted. Yes I know you didnt say God is not in control but that's the implication of what you narrated in your sentence.
"Things just happen" - nothing happens without the will of God. He is in control of all things. Yes, he also helps us to deal with bad things that happen to us.

Peace

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:
lol at this entire thread. You think you can really understand why or why not God does something. It's foolish to continue this debate: We know nothing compared to God.

(sorry, i didn't mean to sound like a crazy ayatollah.)

respect!!!! mr ayatollah LOL ;D

[Zulkiflim]

But is there a lesson for non-Muslims too? In both South-East Asia and in Pakistan the West rushed aid to help the victims. I think we thought this was a good thing and no doubt saved many children's lives. But do you think that this was a bad thing? After all many of those children who were saved will not grow up to be good Muslims and may burn in Hell for it forever. So have we, in fact, by trying to help, damned them for all eternity? Do you think we ought to keep our aid to ourselves and not help children in need?

Salaam,

If you save a life do you then think it is wrong?

If a person dies due to any circumstances then you die
If you are able to save the person then you have saved that person.

in Islam judgement is on the individual.
If you see a wrong then you should help.
for Allah say to aid whenever you can.
but when that person dies despite your aid,do you then lose faith?

A test for you and for others.

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

But is there a lesson for non-Muslims too? In both South-East Asia and in Pakistan the West rushed aid to help the victims. I think we thought this was a good thing and no doubt saved many children's lives. But do you think that this was a bad thing? After all many of those children who were saved will not grow up to be good Muslims and may burn in Hell for it forever. So have we, in fact, by trying to help, damned them for all eternity? Do you think we ought to keep our aid to ourselves and not help children in need?

seriously, theres no need for any of your sarcasm
i have no right to stand here and tell you who is going to hell or "be damned for all eternity" im not Allah. Your questions are getting ridiculous, especially when u generalize a whole group instead of each individual.

so the more muslim a country is the more tests it gets? Hardly seems fair to me, Kinda like saying, he more you love me, the more I will hurt you.

I never said a muslim country, nor have i even mentioned the word muslim, i said "us" as in human beings, and its more like, the more you love me the more i TEST you. it doesnt have to hurt to be a test. A rich person is granted money to be tested with how he spends it. A knowledgable person is granted knowledge and tested by how he uses it, a human is granted legs to be tested where he walks with them. get it??

Little children dying not a negative thing? Seriously, Islam is such a long way from the rest of us.

farther away from the world, closer to paradise...
if i were a child growing up in a place where gun shots are heard from miles away, no food to eat except whatever u can find, parents, siblings, neighbors, or friends have died for different numerous reasons, id rather die and go to paradise than live to see what else is going to happen. this world isnt worth a damn thing.

IBy the way, I didnt say God is not in control, I just dont believe he causes suffering as a test, things just happen, God helps us deal with them

no one said that being tested always had to be through suffering, as ive already explained above

peace

[HeiGou]

seriously, theres no need for any of your sarcasm
i have no right to stand here and tell you who is going to hell or "be damned for all eternity" im not Allah. Your questions are getting ridiculous, especially when u generalize a whole group instead of each individual.

I am not being sarcastic. I am asking a genuine question. I am not asking you to judge any specific individual. I am asking you to make a guess about the mass. We know that 100 percent of children who die in such tragedies will go to Heaven. If they live and grow up, we can be reasonably sure that fewer than 100 percent of them will. Going on a figure bandied about here, let's say 0.1 percent of them will. Which means by saving 1000 children, we prevent 999 of them going to Heaven. This cannot be a good thing can it? Which is more important, saving them in this life or in the next? There must be an Islamic answer. Do you know what it is?

How can you accuse me of being too specific and too general at the same time?

[HeiGou]

If you save a life do you then think it is wrong?

I am more interested in what you think and my views don't matter here.

If a person dies due to any circumstances then you die
If you are able to save the person then you have saved that person.

True but if you have saved them and they then go to Hell, isn't it better to have saved their souls, thus allowing them into Heaven, rather than their lives? I am told 100 percent of children who die in such events will go to Heaven. I am also told that out of every 1000 souls God will send 999 to Hell. So it seems to me that by saving their life, we have given them a less than 0.1 percent chance of going to Heaven as opposed to 100 percent chance if we had left them to die. Which is more important in your opinion?

in Islam judgement is on the individual.
If you see a wrong then you should help.
for Allah say to aid whenever you can.
but when that person dies despite your aid,do you then lose faith?

A test for you and for others.

But help them stay in this world or help them get into the Next?

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

I am not being sarcastic. I am asking a genuine question. I am not asking you to judge any specific individual. I am asking you to make a guess about the mass. We know that 100 percent of children who die in such tragedies will go to Heaven. If they live and grow up, we can be reasonably sure that fewer than 100 percent of them will. Going on a figure bandied about here, let's say 0.1 percent of them will. Which means by saving 1000 children, we prevent 999 of them going to Heaven. This cannot be a good thing can it? Which is more important, saving them in this life or in the next? There must be an Islamic answer. Do you know what it is?

How can you accuse me of being too specific and too general at the same time?

Sounded pretty sarcastic to me.. well anyways sorry for making that assumption

When it comes to who will be punished and who wont be, this is too big of a generalization, in which case the answer will be generalized as "the believers will meet in paradise, the nonbelievers in hell"

For me to "estimate" who is going to hell and who wont, i still cant do that, im not in everyone's heart to say HES A KUFAR, TO HELL HE GOES! Mashallah thats a TRUE BELIEVER TO PARADISE HE GOES...

as far as i know all muslims will go to hell for some time to be cleansed of their sins, since NO human is sinless except if you were an innocent child or a martyr. but almost everyone else will have a taste hell fire, even the muslims.

After all many of those children who were saved will not grow up to be good Muslims and may burn in Hell for it forever. So have we, in fact, by trying to help, damned them for all eternity? Do you think we ought to keep our aid to ourselves and not help children in need?

I requoted what you said to explain this bit to you. Muslims wont burn in hell for eternity, so whether you helped or not doesnt matter, and each individual is judged accordingly by Allah. Here's another thing, just because you want to save someone from hell doesnt mean you do it by saving them from death at an early or young age, it doesnt matter, I'm pretty sure just cuz u threw in a few dollars or donated a few stuff doesnt mean youre guiding the rest of their lives, nor making their future life choices for them, that is for them to decide and be judged by.

By helping them,whether they are good or bad, you probably got your sins cleansed, we live by the present not by the future..so technically we cant also say, " WHEN/IF THEY GROW UP to be sinful people and therefore go to hell" and then not help them, because we dont know if they'll grow up at all, they might die the next day you help them! just as muslims cant live by "ill make up my fast after ramathan, im too hungry today" u dont know if ull live after ramathan!. and one last thing deeds are multiplied, sins arent; you hold back on a good deed in the present, it'll become a sin in the future. we are supposed to do as much as we can and live by each second.

peace

[HeiGou]

When it comes to who will be punished and who wont be, this is too big of a generalization, in which case the answer will be generalized as "the believers will meet in paradise, the nonbelievers in hell"

For me to "estimate" who is going to hell and who wont, i still cant do that, im not in everyone's heart to say HES A KUFAR, TO HELL HE GOES! Mashallah thats a TRUE BELIEVER TO PARADISE HE GOES...

Well there is another thread around which goes, (thanks to Renak),

Sahih Bukhari: (1.2.28; 4.54.482, 512; 4.54.483; 4.54.487; 4.55.567; 4.55.608)

Majority in hell are women because they are ungrateful to their husbands. Allah permitted the hellfire to take two breaths—that is the reason for severe heat and a bitter cold in weather. [Shubahanallah!!!]. Fever is from the heat of hellfire; it can be cooled with Zam Zam water. Hell fire is sixty-nine times more intense than an ordinary fire. Children will become gray-haired; all pregnant women will have miscarriages; mankind will be drunken on the resurrection day; only one person in a thousand will be in Paradise Malik is the gate-keeper of hell.

so it is clear that a lot of people are going to Hell. I agree we cannot agree on which one out of every thousand will not, but we can be sure that a lot of the people who were saved due to Western aid will go to Hell.

as far as i know all muslims will go to hell for some time to be cleansed of their sins, since NO human is sinless except if you were an innocent child or a martyr. but almost everyone else will have a taste hell fire, even the muslims.

Yes. So if those children had died with the other victims of the Tsunami or Earthquakes in Pakistan or Iran, they would have died sinless and hence got into Heaven. But the West rushed aid and saved them so that now they will burn in Hell. Or at least 99.9 percent of them will. Do you think that the more merciful thing would have been to let them die?

I requoted what you said to explain this bit to you. Muslims wont burn in hell for eternity, so whether you helped or not doesnt matter, and each individual is judged accordingly by Allah.

I am interested in the idea people only burn in Hell for a short time. May I ask why you believe that?

Here's another thing, just because you want to save someone from hell doesnt mean you do it by saving them from death at an early or young age, it doesnt matter, I'm pretty sure just cuz u threw in a few dollars or donated a few stuff doesnt mean youre guiding the rest of their lives, nor making their future life choices for them, that is for them to decide and be judged by.

I agree it is up to them and they can make the right choices and they can be saved. But chances are good they will not make the right choices and they will not be saved. If the goal is not this life but the Next Life, why mess about with this life at all? Why not go for the guarantee for the best of the Next Life?

By helping them,whether they are good or bad, you probably got your sins cleansed, we live by the present not by the future..so technically we cant also say, " WHEN/IF THEY GROW UP to be sinful people and therefore go to hell" and then not help them, because we dont know if they'll grow up at all, they might die the next day you help them!

But isn't the ultimate in selfishness to stop them going to Heaven for sure, in order to build up some merits of our own? Doesn't this just deny them a sure place in Heaven so that we can feel better about our chances of getting into Heaven? Do you see what I mean - we would be sacrificing their futures for our own.

[------]

I am interested in the idea people only burn in Hell for a short time. May I ask why you believe that?

Coz it says in the Qur'an bro... I'll get back to ya with the reference...

[------]

Hadith from Shahi Bukhari.

Vol 1, Book 2. Belief. Hadith 021.

Narrated By Abu Said Al-Khudri : The Prophet said, "When the people of Paradise will enter Paradise and the people of Hell will go to Hell, Allah will order those who have had faith equal to the weight of a grain of mustard seed to be taken out from Hell. So they will be taken out but (by then) they will be blackened (charred). Then they will be put in the river of Haya' (rain) or Hayat (life) (the Narrator is in doubt as to which is the right term), and they will revive like a grain that grows near the bank of a flood channel. Don't you see that it comes out yellow and twisted."

[IbnAbdulHakim]

looks like the exact time spent in hell isnt mentioned for muslims. I guess it depends on the individual. Mayb no1 will spend exactly the same amount of time as every1 is different.

PS: Dont take hell punishment lightly... 1ms is too much!!!

[Ghazi]

looks like the exact time spent in hell isnt mentioned for muslims. I guess it depends on the individual. Mayb no1 will spend exactly the same amount of time as every1 is different.

PS: Dont take hell punishment lightly... 1ms is too much!!!

Salaam

True, Inshallah we'll all be in the heart's of green birds before everyone enters janna.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Salaam

True, Inshallah we'll all be in the heart's of green birds before everyone enters janna.

inshaAllah :'(

That sounded too beautiful, i think i hav to giv u a rep.

PS: been thinkin bout palestine a lot recently.... new restriction....freedome limited....my poor brothers :'(

[Zulkiflim]

I am more interested in what you think and my views don't matter here.



True but if you have saved them and they then go to Hell, isn't it better to have saved their souls, thus allowing them into Heaven, rather than their lives? I am told 100 percent of children who die in such events will go to Heaven. I am also told that out of every 1000 souls God will send 999 to Hell. So it seems to me that by saving their life, we have given them a less than 0.1 percent chance of going to Heaven as opposed to 100 percent chance if we had left them to die. Which is more important in your opinion?



But help them stay in this world or help them get into the Next?

Salaam,

LOLOL...
Your thought trully do not matter for only Islam is right.

Saving lives is a DEED..a GOOD DEED..

Very well then sicn you accept that all chidlren will go to heaven,then i ask you to go out and kill your childrena dn your nieces and nephews.
If you cant then tell me why

Then can you tell me,do you know of their detination?Do you presume to know some thing that you do not?
You are but man oh ignorant one,accpet your fraility
Be not more that what you are,
do not think you cna judge other or others judge you


You have no power.
you cannot decide another person destination
Simply SUBMIT(ISLAM)

[extinction]

Allah is Just....end of topic..........

[Zulkiflim]

Well there is another thread around which goes, (thanks to Renak),

Sahih Bukhari: (1.2.28; 4.54.482, 512; 4.54.483; 4.54.487; 4.55.567; 4.55.608)

Majority in hell are women because they are ungrateful to their husbands. Allah permitted the hellfire to take two breaths—that is the reason for severe heat and a bitter cold in weather. [Shubahanallah!!!]. Fever is from the heat of hellfire; it can be cooled with Zam Zam water. Hell fire is sixty-nine times more intense than an ordinary fire. Children will become gray-haired; all pregnant women will have miscarriages; mankind will be drunken on the resurrection day; only one person in a thousand will be in Paradise Malik is the gate-keeper of hell.

so it is clear that a lot of people are going to Hell. I agree we cannot agree on which one out of every thousand will not, but we can be sure that a lot of the people who were saved due to Western aid will go to Hell.
[PIE]Salaam,

Do you think that way then surely it is your thought.Aid comes in all mammer and guise it is not whom gives it but how you spend it.PErhaps you feel that you have lost your soul thru acceptanbce of toehr aid...but pls dont prejudge other as you ahve thought of yourself.[/PIE]



Yes. So if those children had died with the other victims of the Tsunami or Earthquakes in Pakistan or Iran, they would have died sinless and hence got into Heaven. But the West rushed aid and saved them so that now they will burn in Hell. Or at least 99.9 percent of them will. Do you think that the more merciful thing would have been to let them die?

[PIE]Can you tell 100 percent that these children will all go to hell.Do you claim to have knowledge more than what you do?Or is it arrogance on your part.I would say that if beleive that one should not save lives,then surely pls go out and murder your childrena dn niecesa nd nephew,,You do wnat them to go to heaven right...They will but you as a murderer wont.So in simple fact ,,WE WILL ALL BE JUDGED BY OUR DEED..Byt what we do and what we dont do but what lies in INTETNTION...Deed.
[/PIE]


I am interested in the idea people only burn in Hell for a short time. May I ask why you believe that?

[PIE]It is the mercy of Allah that muslim wont stay in hell forever but for a short time.[/PIE]



I agree it is up to them and they can make the right choices and they can be saved. But chances are good they will not make the right choices and they will not be saved. If the goal is not this life but the Next Life, why mess about with this life at all? Why not go for the guarantee for the best of the Next Life?

[PIE]Salaam,again you forget yourself and think too highly of your intellect.you are man noting more nothing else,you can do nothing save to yourself...The destination of heavven or hell lies in you BUT IT ONLY AFFECT YOU..Your hatred your love your wickedness your lies affect only you and no other...The Lies come from the LIAR>...it dos not affect the listener[/PIE]


But isn't the ultimate in selfishness to stop them going to Heaven for sure, in order to build up some merits of our own? Doesn't this just deny them a sure place in Heaven so that we can feel better about our chances of getting into Heaven? Do you see what I mean - we would be sacrificing their futures for our own.

[PIE]And again you think you know their place and thir detination.You are but man,accept it,you cannot do anything to otehr.
Again if your unislamic thought run that way that it is wicked to bar the young ones from heaven.,then do follow your own mantr..go out and murder your own childrena dn nephews and nieces..You do love your children do you not..you do love your nieces do you not...So would you not wnat them to go to heaven??So go and murder them....In Islam we say.TO EACH HIS OWN,we rear our children and young to the best of our ability but their sin are their own and their good deeds are their own....We their parent may go to hell,but they may go to heaven..Only ALLAH kows...D[/PIE]

[Zulkiflim]

inshaAllah :'(

That sounded too beautiful, i think i hav to giv u a rep.

PS: been thinkin bout palestine a lot recently.... new restriction....freedome limited....my poor brothers :'(

Salaam,,

Yes i too feel saddened by the obstacles that they go thru
But ALHAMDULILAH,they trully teaches us all about FAITH..

Despite the oppresion,despite the pain..THEY KEEP THE FAITH..
Can we also do that? if we were in their shoes..
Trully their pain is beyond what i know but assuredly Inshallah so will be their rewards..

Allah i beseech thee,i am unsure wheter to ask for other death but do strengthen the heart of the Ummah whom are in peril or in oppresion or pain,increase the number of the Ummah amongst the kafirs so that we will win tru converts and number and not thru reataliation...

Isnhallah...

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

so it is clear that a lot of people are going to Hell. I agree we cannot agree on which one out of every thousand will not, but we can be sure that a lot of the people who were saved due to Western aid will go to Hell.

ah, so there was a reason for my suspicion of sarcasm..
yea, but still it isnt for me or for you to decide, even if it says in a hadith..a word not from Allah btw..

Yes. So if those children had died with the other victims of the Tsunami or Earthquakes in Pakistan or Iran, they would have died sinless and hence got into Heaven. But the West rushed aid and saved them so that now they will burn in Hell. Or at least 99.9 percent of them will.

wrong again, the population of this world is increasing quickly, sins are increasing as well. We cant take that estimation out of just that group, and according to the hadith in which you have provided, it sounds like the populatin will be a lot bigger than it is now, and also there will be less muslims in the future than there is now, so ofcoarse there will be a lot of ppl going to hell, dont forget about the others that have died in the past and dont forget that for some time on earth, muslims will be extinct.

Do you think that the more merciful thing would have been to let them die?

Let me remind you that once again you continue to think to the future as if you are running your own heartbeats, dont do that cuz u arent. When it comes to any situation where you are going to ask yourself, "what is more merciful" think of whether its merciful at all for that very millisecond. stop thinking towards the future. If you were to drop dead the very moment you ud wish you'd got in that one last deed instead of thinking of what would happen in the next second or even worse, the upcoming YEARS.

I am interested in the idea people only burn in Hell for a short time. May I ask why you believe that?

And there is none of you except he will come to it (to be exposed to the hell fire). This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees. (19:71-72)

I agree it is up to them and they can make the right choices and they can be saved. But chances are good they will not make the right choices and they will not be saved.

You mentioned the word chance, before you think of chance, think of whats 100%, Do they need help?? yes or no? if you can answer yes, then help. The outcome of any chance is not controlled by you, this is completely random in your power and always justified by Allah's will.

If the goal is not this life but the Next Life, why mess about with this life at all? Why not go for the guarantee for the best of the Next Life?

ah, the word goal...can we not agree that with each goal there are obsticles? Our goal is not to enter paradise, when you play a game you don't think of the prize, you think of the finish line first and the obstacles before that.

But isn't the ultimate in selfishness to stop them going to Heaven for sure, in order to build up some merits of our own? Doesn't this just deny them a sure place in Heaven so that we can feel better about our chances of getting into Heaven? Do you see what I mean - we would be sacrificing their futures for our own.

Who said anything about anyone being selfish??Are we putting words in *charisma*'s posts now?? Paradise is not for just one person, it's for everyone that deserves it.
As muslims, we have to guide, whether they get to paradise or not is always an unknown for us as human beings, and we dont live to be granted paradise, we live to serve Allah. We guide for the sake of Allah and for the sake of ourselves, but we always put Allah first. Selfishness is a sin in itself, and years of selfishness is years of sin, how are you getting rewarded for that? Recieving deeds is nothing to boast about, especially when you compare yourself to the sinless, there is a reason we cant see our deeds until judgement day, if we could, we wud limit ourselves. Just as no muslim should expect to be granted paradise, if we kept thinking this, our lives would be worth nothing, but we must make them worth something, not to this world, but to the hereafter.

peace

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Salaam,,

Yes i too feel saddened by the obstacles that they go thru
But ALHAMDULILAH,they trully teaches us all about FAITH..

Despite the oppresion,despite the pain..THEY KEEP THE FAITH..
Can we also do that? if we were in their shoes..
Trully their pain is beyond what i know but assuredly Inshallah so will be their rewards..

Allah i beseech thee,i am unsure wheter to ask for other death but do strengthen the heart of the Ummah whom are in peril or in oppresion or pain,increase the number of the Ummah amongst the kafirs so that we will win tru converts and number and not thru reataliation...

Isnhallah...

i dunno why but for some reason i think the harder this test of life grips me, the harder the tests Allah gives, the stronger my faith will become! I actually ask Allah to bring on the hard tests and give me reward inshaAllah if i pass them and forgiveness if i fail them. This dunya's nothin people!!! The smart traveller prepares for whats ahead!!! ;)

[HeiGou]

so it is clear that a lot of people are going to Hell. I agree we cannot agree on which one out of every thousand will not, but we can be sure that a lot of the people who were saved due to Western aid will go to Hell.

ah, so there was a reason for my suspicion of sarcasm..
yea, but still it isnt for me or for you to decide, even if it says in a hadith..a word not from Allah btw..

There is still no sarcasm there. I am not asking you to decide. I am asking you whether it is right to run the risk of preventing someone from entering Heaven so that we can feel better about ourselves.

Yes. So if those children had died with the other victims of the Tsunami or Earthquakes in Pakistan or Iran, they would have died sinless and hence got into Heaven. But the West rushed aid and saved them so that now they will burn in Hell. Or at least 99.9 percent of them will.

wrong again, the population of this world is increasing quickly, sins are increasing as well. We cant take that estimation out of just that group, and according to the hadith in which you have provided, it sounds like the populatin will be a lot bigger than it is now, and also there will be less muslims in the future than there is now, so ofcoarse there will be a lot of ppl going to hell, dont forget about the others that have died in the past and dont forget that for some time on earth, muslims will be extinct.

So if sins are increasing you think 99.99 percent of them will go to Hell? Or more? How does a percentage rate to the number of Muslims?

Muslims will be extinct? Now that is interesting.

Do you think that the more merciful thing would have been to let them die?

Let me remind you that once again you continue to think to the future as if you are running your own heartbeats, dont do that cuz u arent. When it comes to any situation where you are going to ask yourself, "what is more merciful" think of whether its merciful at all for that very millisecond. stop thinking towards the future. If you were to drop dead the very moment you ud wish you'd got in that one last deed instead of thinking of what would happen in the next second or even worse, the upcoming YEARS.

But should I be thinking about my future in this situation or theirs? Do you think God would reward me for keeping them out of Heaven (at least temporarily)? If that is the goal, why waste time here?

You mentioned the word chance, before you think of chance, think of whats 100%, Do they need help?? yes or no? if you can answer yes, then help. The outcome of any chance is not controlled by you, this is completely random in your power and always justified by Allah's will.

But what is the ultimate goal of that help? Surely Muslims are not afraid of death and are just passing through this life on the way to somewhere better. Why wait if you can go for sure and go now? You say "help" but is it, in Islamic terms, help to stop them entering Heaven right now?

If the goal is not this life but the Next Life, why mess about with this life at all? Why not go for the guarantee for the best of the Next Life?

ah, the word goal...can we not agree that with each goal there are obsticles? Our goal is not to enter paradise, when you play a game you don't think of the prize, you think of the finish line first and the obstacles before that.

Your goal is not to enter Heaven? What is it then? It ain't to have a good time now on this Earth without thought of the consequences? In a game you think of the finish line and making it to that finish line - Heaven for Muslims surely?

[HeiGou]

Your thought trully do not matter for only Islam is right.

Well by all means, explain the views of Islam to me.

Saving lives is a DEED..a GOOD DEED..

For the person who saved the life. But if the would-be-deceased was a child, as I understand it, they have been saved from a guaranteed place in Heaven. How can that be a good thing?

Very well then sicn you accept that all chidlren will go to heaven,then i ask you to go out and kill your childrena dn your nieces and nephews.
If you cant then tell me why

I don't accept that all children will go to Heaven. You tell me that they will. So the question ought to be, why don't more Muslims kill their children and nieces and nephews? They will grow up to sin in all likelihood. But if they die as children what happens to them?

Then can you tell me,do you know of their detination?Do you presume to know some thing that you do not?
You are but man oh ignorant one,accpet your fraility
Be not more that what you are,
do not think you cna judge other or others judge you
You have no power.
you cannot decide another person destination
Simply SUBMIT(ISLAM)

I am not trying to. But you all tell me that children go to Heaven if they die in Earthquakes or the like. Is that wrong? Is it unknowable? Are the hadith, and I assume there are hadith, wrong?

What do you think happens to children when they die?

[Maimunah]

What do you think happens to children when they die?

they will go to paradise:)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

they will go to paradise:)

btw lets note, 909/1000 will go to heaven!!!!

this means a little below 10% of the whole of humanity will end up in heaven but is this wivout reckoning :?

:sl:

[Maimunah]

btw lets note, 909/1000 will go to heaven!!!!

this means a little below 10% of the whole of humanity will end up in heaven but is this wivout reckoning :?

:sl:

bro do u mean 999/1000
if so then then those 999 will be ya juuj wa majuuj n the 1% will be other humans:)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

bro do u mean 999/1000
if so then then those 999 will be ya juuj wa majuuj n the 1% will be other humans:)

no sis i mean 909/1000

let me show u inshaAllah

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 265:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, "On the day of Resurrection Allah will say, 'O Adam!' Adam will reply, 'Labbaik our Lord, and Sa'daik ' Then there will be a loud call (saying), Allah orders you to take from among your offspring a mission for the (Hell) Fire.' Adam will say, 'O Lord! Who are the mission for the (Hell) Fire?' Allah will say, 'Out of each thousand, take out 999.' At that time every pregnant female shall drop her load (have a miscarriage) and a child will have grey hair. And you shall see mankind as in a drunken state, yet not drunk, but severe will be the torment of Allah." (22.2) (When the Prophet mentioned this), the people were so distressed (and afraid) that their faces got changed (in color) whereupon the Prophet said, "From Gog and Magog nine-hundred ninety-nine will be taken out and one from you. You Muslims (compared to the large number of other people) will be like a black hair on the side of a white ox, or a white hair on the side of a black ox, and I hope that you will be one-fourth of the people of Paradise." On that, we said, "Allahu-Akbar!" Then he said, "I hope that you will be) one-third of the people of Paradise." We again said, "Allahu-Akbar!" Then he said, "(I hope that you will be) one-half of the people of Paradise." So we said, Allahu Akbar."

lol i c, sis i think ur right.

alhamdullilah, i got so scared for a sec

[Maimunah]

no sis i mean 909/1000



lol i c, sis i think ur right.

alhamdullilah, i got so scared for a sec

jazakaallah kahyr:) n be happy

[IbnAbdulHakim]

bout juuj amd majuuj... just what are they?? :?

[Maimunah]

check this thread
http://www.islamicboard.com/akhira-h...gog-magog.html

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

There is still no sarcasm there. I am not asking you to decide. I am asking you whether it is right to run the risk of preventing someone from entering Heaven so that we can feel better about ourselves.

Subhanak ya rabb..

NOW you are making it for selfish reasons. I don't get how preventing someone from going to heaven, would make us feel better about ourselves, would you care to further explain that please?

So if sins are increasing you think 99.99 percent of them will go to Hell? Or more? How does a percentage rate to the number of Muslims?

Muslims will be extinct? Now that is interesting.

eh, how gud are you with numbers?? I wonder if you are relating your ratios based upon that one hadith, in which doesnt even mention muslims entering hell.

But should I be thinking about my future in this situation or theirs? Do you think God would reward me for keeping them out of Heaven (at least temporarily)? If that is the goal, why waste time here?

Because (as I've explained before) muslims dont live with the pride of going to paradise. And the goal is not to keep anyone out of paradise, where are u getting this from??

But what is the ultimate goal of that help? Surely Muslims are not afraid of death and are just passing through this life on the way to somewhere better. Why wait if you can go for sure and go now? You say "help" but is it, in Islamic terms, help to stop them entering Heaven right now?

The ultimate goal of that help is to HELP. Thats it. Don't even think of the afterlife, cuz there you go again talking about future paradise when who knows when that will come. Help is to assist them with whatever present problems they have if you are able to. Keeping them from paradise by letting them grow up is not YOUR problem, it's theirs.

Your goal is not to enter Heaven? What is it then? It ain't to have a good time now on this Earth without thought of the consequences? In a game you think of the finish line and making it to that finish line - Heaven for Muslims surely?

The goal is to please Allah. The finish line is meeting Allah. In any game you think of everything you have to go through before getting to the finish line, the mini obstacles. After that, once you reach the finish line, you look at the competitors, who came in first, second, third, etc. Then you wait for your prize and if you lost, there is no prize for you. Grand prize would be entering paradise without trials, second prize could be being punished in hell for a short period of time and then entering paradise, and if you didnt win, your in hell forever.


peace

[------]

The goal is to please Allah. The finish line is meeting Allah.

Yh Mannnnn truly sed

Grand prize would be entering paradise without trials, second prize could be being punished in hell for a short period of time and then entering paradise, and if you didnt win, your in hell forever.

May Allah protect and guide us :thumbs_up

[Zulkiflim]

Well by all means, explain the views of Islam to me.



For the person who saved the life. But if the would-be-deceased was a child, as I understand it, they have been saved from a guaranteed place in Heaven. How can that be a good thing?



I don't accept that all children will go to Heaven. You tell me that they will. So the question ought to be, why don't more Muslims kill their children and nieces and nephews? They will grow up to sin in all likelihood. But if they die as children what happens to them?



I am not trying to. But you all tell me that children go to Heaven if they die in Earthquakes or the like. Is that wrong? Is it unknowable? Are the hadith, and I assume there are hadith, wrong?

What do you think happens to children when they die?

Salaam,

the answer are clear,the children whom are sinless will go to heaven..

You say other wise.

And you say sin they are sinless why dont we kill them,simply becasue their life is not our to take.
We love our children and they love us,and they are a trial and a boon.thru them we impart our knowledge and Inshallah our fiath.

Also,in Islam we each of us shall go to heaven or hell based on our deeds,murder is a evil deed and will countenence an unsavoury affect.So we rememebr the covenant.

Again i ask you,why dont you go out and murder your children and nieces and so on.

In the Quran it is said that some of the other religion claim,their adherent will go to heaven.....the Quran challenge them..SEEK YE DEATH THEN.....

WILL YOU??

So i reply to you in the simpleset form.
To save a life is a good deed,to stay one hand while another suffer is a bad deed,to kill/murder is a bad deed.

A simple answer for a simple question.

[HeiGou]

the answer are clear,the children whom are sinless will go to heaven..

You say other wise.

Actually you are not listening to me because I have not said otherwise. I am told that in Islam children who die go to Heaven and I have never ever said otherwise. What I have said is 1. those children who are victims of natural disasters and so died, must therefore go to Heaven and 2. any child that is saved by Western aid does not get to go to Heaven immediately, and runs the real risk of growing up, sinning, and so burning in Hell for some long but indeterminate length of time.

Now you object to my post, I can see that, but which of those two propostions do you disagree with?

And you say sin they are sinless why dont we kill them,simply becasue their life is not our to take.

I am actually arguing for a lesser act - not that we kill, but that we do not save. Or at least we do not do too much to save. After all if they die in a state of sinlessness they go to Heaven. If they grow up they will sin and run a real risk of going to Hell. Which is preferable for the soul concerned?

Again i ask you,why dont you go out and murder your children and nieces and so on.

Because murder is a sin. And I am not convinced that children do go to Heaven when they die.

In the Quran it is said that some of the other religion claim,their adherent will go to heaven.....the Quran challenge them..SEEK YE DEATH THEN.....

WILL YOU??

No thank you. There are some other religions where people are so confident of the next life they seek out death. Buddhist monks are known to burn themselves to death for instance.

[irsha]

Apparently, the US Goverment has not denied that it is considering a tactical nuclear strike against Iran- nuking the sites they consider to have nuclear weapons, or the making of such.
Iran is playing a very dangerous game- one it cannot win, nd one that can only result in misery one way or another.

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

Actually you are not listening to me because I have not said otherwise. I am told that in Islam children who die go to Heaven and I have never ever said otherwise.

Correct.

What I have said is 1. those children who are victims of natural disasters and so died, must therefore go to Heaven

Correct

and 2. any child that is saved by Western aid does not get to go to Heaven immediately, and runs the real risk of growing up, sinning, and so burning in Hell for some long but indeterminate length of time.

Wrong.

There is that risk, but there is also the risk of him dying a martyr, the same risk that he will be a righteous, pious believer, the same risk that he might die that very moment after you try to help him. Why are all these risks exactly proportionate?? because it is through Allah's will that any of these will happen.

I am actually arguing for a lesser act - not that we kill, but that we do not save. Or at least we do not do too much to save. After all if they die in a state of sinlessness they go to Heaven. If they grow up they will sin and run a real risk of going to Hell. Which is preferable for the soul concerned?

You are mixing 2 acts and trying to treat them as one. The first act you speak of is the one in which you decide, and are judged upon (to help or not to help) The second act in which you seek upon is the one that is not of yours (the one being helped, or not helped) and not for you to judge(risks of how he will run his life). You are also trying to judge a soul before being concerned with your own (hypocracy). You wanted to know the ultimate goul of this life? It is to collect as many deeds as you can to take with you to the hereafter, as one of Allah's commands, this is how you will be judged accordingly and proof to you of what you have done with your worldly life.

Whether you help this person or not, you are risking losing a deed that may be multiplied continuously for as long as you live and as long as HE lives as well. whether you leave him there to die or live, it causes no harm upon him because it is Allah that takes and gives, but then for you, you have gained a sin for turning upon someone who was needy.

You also don't realize that everything in this world occurs for a reason. This child may have been sent down by Allah to be helped at that very moment, by you and only you, just so that you are to be tested for how you use your time in this world. Whether he dies or not, is in the will of Allah's, you have no control over it, but what you do have control over is your own intentions. So you can leave this person to die, and they could possibly live longer than you and you have gained nothing positive to take with you to the hereafter.

You are concerned with someone that has no say in their future life yet, and then you act as if their future is held between your hands, but nay it is not, it is just pure arrogance that has led you to believe this.

peace.

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

Apparently, the US Goverment has not denied that it is considering a tactical nuclear strike against Iran- nuking the sites they consider to have nuclear weapons, or the making of such.
Iran is playing a very dangerous game- one it cannot win, nd one that can only result in misery one way or another.

And your point is?? What does that have to do with anything...:rollseyes


peace

[extinction]

hey goo!!

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

hey goo!!

eh? who? go where?? u alright ekhi??

fi aman Allah
w'salaam

[Lush]

yea from a scientist POV it will be a natural event obviously but not from Muslims POV, and Muslims shouldn't think of it as a natural phenomenon

Quite the predicament for Muslim scientists! ;D

[------]

Am lost again...POV....:?

[*charisma*]

Assalamu alaikum

stands for "point of view" sis

fi aman Allah
w'salaam

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Am lost again...POV....:?

lol POV = Point of View :)

[Lush]

lol i've faced this fact ages ago! i as a muslim cant stand the western culture. Due to the women i cant look anywhere apart from the floor, i avoid so many shops due to the music, you cant get on a bus wivout seeing a dirty poster sumwhere its disgusting. This civilization is slowly losing all its morals. aah ur question is very good, let me explain how it works.

You know, Majid, I've got quite a number of Muslim friends living with me in the scary ol' West, and honestly, I haven't observed them have any problems with what you have described. Perhaps they are simply "bad" Muslims and should be takfired and/or beheaded, or something, but perhaps they are simply... gosh... I don't know, secure in their faith? There might be a lesson here.

The ignorant are left to enjoy there so called "fruits". They dwelve deeper and deeper till one day Allah takes it away and leaves them in despair. Do you kno why he allowed them to dwelve? So they may repent, its basically giving them a chance, when he see's that they are so ignorant that they are just lost thats when he strikes. Now lets think about all the people who have lost there so called "love" and all the people who are suffering... im sure even you root have some experience of what im talking about. Thinking ur happy doing that which is clearly wrong but then one day having it taken away... this is whats happening to the west. Its a slow process, but it happens! As for the third world countries and such they are in the same predicament, every1 has there own unique way of life, but certainly its all evaluated on an equal level.

I hate to sound like a BNP spokeswoman, but as someone who chose to remain in the West after moving here, despite what I see as it's various problems, I really don't understand why a person who genuinely "can't stand" the culture would not want to leave.

What's keeping you here? Are you too young to move on your own? Or perhaps there is a certain level of security that comes with living in the "evil" West? The job market is fairly stable, a relatively open society ensures that no secret police is going to be banging down your door any time soon (places like Gitmo notwithstanding, of course), freedom speech generally allows people to share viewpoints without getting locked up, and corruption is fairly low when compared to a lot of economically destabilized countries.

Of course, there are other, infinitely more important things that keep me, personally, in the West, and have encouraged me to get my American citizenship recently, and they include art and culture as well as certain values I hold dear, but I can't for the life of me understand why someone who professes to be so miserable would choose to remain. Heck, my parents didn't stick around. They were unhappy, for reasons of their own. And they made the tough decision to move back to a developing country and fight the many problems that arose from that decision. But they at least made a choice.

I'm not sure why you, personally, would want to stick around after reading this outpouring such tremendous distaste. Perhaps this is something that you would like to keep private, and it's not my place to ask such a question. But it troubles me deeply when a person who is so unhappy would want to remain, and even slander the environment they occupied. I, for example, spent a couple of months in Jordan recently. I was treated exceptionally well, loved the country, and I could get a pretty decent job there, but I know that life in Jordan wouldn't make me as happy as I would be in the States, or Britain, or Canada, so I have no long-term plans to come back. It's a conscious decision.

Perhaps it may be a good idea for you to get together with Muslims who actually like living in the West, and have a decent time of it? Perhaps that would better inform your viewpoint?

[cleo]

hhhmmmm,

Interesting replies. But then if Islam is the way why is it not the West that he targets? Let's face it Islam don't exactly adore the Western culture and if we look at Islamic morality then surely the west are the worse sinners (according to islam).......

Why does he seem to inflict death to children within cultures that are striving to be as Islamic as thay can yet the West could not care 2 monkeys about it, yet are left to enjoy such fruits?............

Maybe it is the other way around, backward thinking, it is the evil western Government that will suffer?