where do christians think anti-christ will come froM?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:
:peace:

Where do christians think anti-christ will come from? Is it baby?BabyLoN?

:peace:
:w:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:peace:

THANK YOU HEI-GOU FOR THE FOLLOWING:

Babylon is an ancient city in Iraq. It was where the Jews were taken in their Captivity until Cyrus and Darius the Persian Emperors allowed them to return.

As the Boney M song goes,

Pss.137
[1] By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
[2] We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.
[3] For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.
[4] How shall we sing the LORD's song in a strange land?
[5] If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
[6] If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.
[7] Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof.
[8] O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
[9] Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
It is called Babylon because it means "Gate of God" by highly Anglicised. "Bab" is still generically Middle Eastern for Gate and it used to end in an "el".

But Babylon in the Christian tradition becomes a way of describing the power and might of the Anti-Christ who will come at the end of Days etc etc

Rev.17
[1] And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ----- that sitteth upon many waters:
[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
[6] And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
[7] And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.


:peace:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ----- that sitteth upon many waters:

^ i find that very disturbing :eek:

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

That IS disturbing... i think it's the same place as Muslims believe (?).
:w:

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[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:

^ Iraq? :?

:w:

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

What... oh sorry i thought u mean where he will be killed... i'm not sure.
(Iraq?... what???)
:w:

[searchingsoul]

:sl:

lol stop makin me crak up at ur confusion my simple question is where do the christians think Dajjal comes from? Do they think he already exists but is in hiding? if so WHERE?

:w:

There's not an officially adopted or accepted belief about the Christian Anti-Christ. Depending on the Christian you'll receive different views. The Bible isn't explicit in describing all aspects of the Anti-Christ.

The view I hear the most is that he will be born prior to the end of the world. He will become a world leader that brings peace to many nations. After three years the peace will end and he'll take complete control of all nations. Life will be intolerable during his reign. So he hasn't been born yet, unless we are approaching the end of the world. I've never heard specifics about which nation he will be from.

One early Christian forefather, I believe St. Augustine, taught that the Anti-Christ was actually within each of us. We each have to battle the Anti-Christ on a daily basis. Good versus evil. Who knows!

If you want to explore the Anti-Christ and the end of times scenario according to what is probably the most generally accepted Christian view, I would suggest reading the Left Behind series of books. I think they have been turned into movies too. I warn you that you might be offended. They tend to have that "non christians get their guts pulled out by God" mentality.

[Halima]

:sl:

Thread moved. Please post in the appropriate section insha'Allah.

:w:

[Abdullah4ever]

:sl:

Dajjal will be killed in a place near tel aviv ...

[searchingsoul]

:sl:

Dajjal will be killed in a place near tel aviv ...

Is this the Christian or Muslim perspective?

[Abdullah4ever]

Is this the Christian or Muslim perspective?

:sl:

Muslim..... He will be killed by Isa (jesus) (as) near tel aviv.... ahh i remember it nwo its babul lud

[searchingsoul]

:sl:

Muslim..... He will be killed by Isa (jesus) (as) near tel aviv.... ahh i remember it nwo its babul lud

Very interesting. Do Muslim scholars think that the end is near? I hear this from Christian leaders a lot.

[Abdullah4ever]

Very interesting. Do Muslim scholars think that the end is near? I hear this from Christian leaders a lot.

:sl:

Hmm... Yawmil Qiyamah (judgement day) , most of the minor signs have past, but dajjal and all those signs haven't come yet so i dont think it will happen in this generation because let me see it will take a whole reign of Imaam Mahdi, and Isa (as) , then dajjal, then Yajoj and Majoj, and the forty day fog and.... yea i dont htink it will happen in this genereation but it is soon real sooon

[syilla]

but if the dajjal already appear... our 'taubah' will not be accepted rite?

correct me if i'm wrong...

or is it... dajjal appear before the sunrise

[Abdullah4ever]

but if the dajjal already appear... our 'taubah' will not be accepted rite?

correct me if i'm wrong...

or is it... dajjal appear before the sunrise

:sl:

I dont understand sister. There is a hadith sayin that ur tawbah wont be accepted when the sun rises from the west

[syilla]

sorry...

i will ask again...

is the dajjal will appear 'before' the sun rises from the west or
is the dajjal will appear 'after' the sun rises from the west..

i learn this when i'm in school... so now i totally forgotten about it...
please forgive me for my ignorance...

[Abdullah4ever]

:sl:

Hm... that i dont know, sorry sister, i might now but i need to think and remember, i forgot my aqeedah book bak at skool

[syilla]

it's okay...

i can ask ppl around here to... hehe..

it's easier to ask in the forum...

[Abdullah4ever]

:sl:

Actullay the first major sign in chronicigal order is dajjal...

[syilla]

how about imam mahadi..

[Abdullah4ever]

:sl:

Taken from USC-MSA:


Major Signs (in rough chronological order)

1. "Al-Dajjal will come, claiming to be God holding Heaven and Hell. His purpose is to deceive, and unbelievers will follow him. He is short, red-faced, blind in the right eye, and has hair which sticks up. He will go around the world, but will be unable to enter Madinah or Makkah." [There are numerous detailed ahadith on this man.]
2. "Al-Mahdi will come at the time of Al-Dajjal. He will call to the true Islam, and will be a military leader. His name will be exactly like that of the Prophet: Muhammad ibn Abd-Allah, and his father's name will match the Prophet's father's name also. He will be descended from Fatima, the daughter of the Prophet."
3. "Isa (Jesus) will come at the time of Al-Dajjal and al-Mahdi as well. He will descend at the time of Fajr prayer on a masjid in Damascus, the capital of Syria. He is of medium height, red-faced, and his hair is as if he just took a shower. He will call people back to Islam, but he will also be a military leader. The People of the Book will revert to Islam, and wealth will be super-abundant. Isa will break the cross, kill the swine, and personally slay Al-Dajjal. He will stay on Earth for a long time thereafter, and then die."
4. "An animal will come and call people back to Islam." [A partial description of this animal is that it is very hairy, so much so that one will not be able to tell its front from its rear (Arabic: 'Dab-ba'). Reference to this animal is mentioned in the Qur'an.]
5. "Gog and Magog (two hidden tribes of people) will break free of the dam that holds them back, and ravage the earth. They will drink all the water, and kill people until Allah sends against them a worm which will wipe them out." [This is roughly before/during the time of Isa, although it is not entirely clear.]
6. "Three places in the world will sink and be swallowed up by the earth. One in the west, one in the east, and one in the Saudi Arabian peninsula." [This may refer to a series of giant, epic earthquakes.]
7. "Fire will come from the area of Aden in Yemen, and sweep northwards." [There are claims that this already happened in some medevial event.]
8. "The sun will rise from the west." [This description is not meant to be a symbolic one...but it is known that it is one of the last, if not the very last one before the following.]
9. "Smoke will appear all over the earth which will cause believers to catch something similar to a slight cold, whereas the unbelievers will be hit harder by it. Finally, a cold wind will come and kill all believers, leaving only unbelievers on the earth who will then witness the LAST HOUR. The angel Israfil will blow a trumpet, and the resurrection of all human beings will begin." [At this point, the Day of Resurrection commences in which the skies and earth are destroyed by Allah.]

This list is far from complete; there are many other signs. A couple more of interest are: Constantinople (Istanbul) will fall before Rome to Islam (note that this means Rome will indeed fall), and the Muslim political system will go from Prophetic leadership to a just Khilafah to a 'biting' authority to an oppressive authority and finally back to a just Khilafah. It seems that today we are in the next to last stage of this chain; now is a good time to actively work for the reestablishment of the Muslim state and Khilafah. Finally, the Prophet has said that when the Signs start to come, they will come FAST - like a string of beads falling one after the other.
And Allah Knows Best.

[syilla]

u know what there is a news from indonesia... i think from 'agensi'.

a baby was born in Jawa Timur last Thursday.
The baby was a miracle because after two hours of the delivery.... the baby recite the al-quran three times (it said that the quran verses was the same as when the Jesus (Prophet Isa) had recite - when he was born).

what do u think of this news...

at the same time i'll find the link for the translation news for you

[Abdullah4ever]

:sl:

HMm... he can't be ISA (as). but clearly this is a sign an ayah (proof sign) from allah.

If allah can create us out of notin then why cant he make a baby recite qurann. interesting though :happy:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:

Whats tel aviv?
Whats baby lud
What the? :? :eek:

:w:

[------]

I'm lost...........:rollseyes

[HeiGou]

u know what there is a news from indonesia... i think from 'agensi'.

a baby was born in Jawa Timur last Thursday.
The baby was a miracle because after two hours of the delivery.... the baby recite the al-quran three times (it said that the quran verses was the same as when the Jesus (Prophet Isa) had recite - when he was born).

what do u think of this news...

I think if it is a choice between believing new born infants can recite the entire Quran or there are a lot of gullible people in the world, well, I'd buy more shares in dot com companies.

Let's see the evidence. Anyone catch it on video?

[------]

HeiGou...........:heated:

Try and believe in miracles, it might help you in some area of ur life!!!!!!!

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

tel aviv is in 'israel' aka occupied palestine.
:w:

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

catch what on video?

[HeiGou]

Whats tel aviv?
Whats baby lud
What the? :?

Tel Aviv is the largest city in Israel, near what used to be called Jaffa.

I don't know what Baby lud is but perhaps it is an attempt to say Babylon?

The Christians believe that the Final Battle between good an evil will be fought in Palestine on the plain of Megiddo (or more accurately the Bible says at the Mount of Megiddo, Har Megiddo, from whence comes Armagedon).

Rev.19

[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[12] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
[17] And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
[18] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
[19] And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
[20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
[21] And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Rev.20
[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev.21
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
[7] He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

But I don't think there is any real belief about where the Anti-Christ will come from. Christians have usually applied it to their enemy de jour. So it is often argued the original applied to Rome, the English used to say it about the Spanish etc. Oddly enough no one much says it about the United States even though I would have thought that was obvious.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I think if it is a choice between believing new born infants can recite the entire Quran or there are a lot of gullible people in the world, well, I'd buy more shares in dot com companies.

Let's see the evidence. Anyone catch it on video?

:peace:

man just rememba this word of advice, wen dajjal comes to you GO TO HIS HELL! trust me, JUS TRUST ME!

:peace:

[------]

:peace:

man just rememba this word of advice, wen dajjal comes to you GO TO HIS HELL! trust me, JUS TRUST ME!

:peace:

:sl:

:rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes

:w:

[syilla]

mu'minah u always make me laugh..hehe

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Oh... i wasn't trying to be funny!
And HeiGou... take Abd'Majid's advice. Also... run to makkah/madinah!
Also... be muslim by then... no no.... be a mu'min by then! AND LEARN SURAT AL KAHF!
And say this du'a:
O Allah protect me from the punishment of the grave, and the punishment of Hell, and the trials and tribulations of life and death, and the trials and tribulations of the fake messiah dajjal.
That advice is for free.

[mizan_aliashraf]

Salam
A good du'a, we should all learn it. The first 10 verses from Surah al-Kahf (The Cave) are also very beneficial for protection from Dajjal
Wassalam

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

My sister had 2 consecutive dreams of the Dajjal, and thought he would come any day now. I tried to calm her down, but she's still a bit hysterical.
:w:

[Nicola]

I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ----- that sitteth upon many waters:

^ i find that very disturbing :eek:

every nations that denys God and falls for a false religion is going to suffer great judgments from God..
this is why God is telling us to come out of all false religions in the book of Revelation.

[Nicola]

:sl:

This list is far from complete; there are many other signs. A couple more of interest are: Constantinople (Istanbul) will fall before Rome to Islam (note that this means Rome will indeed fall), and the Muslim political system will go from Prophetic leadership to a just Khilafah to a 'biting' authority to an oppressive authority and finally back to a just Khilafah. It seems that today we are in the next to last stage of this chain; now is a good time to actively work for the reestablishment of the Muslim state and Khilafah. Finally, the Prophet has said that when the Signs start to come, they will come FAST - like a string of beads falling one after the other.
And Allah Knows Best.

The Roman empire fell and was divided up between 351 and 476 AD..

These are the 10 nations of Europe today, which the prophet Daniel told us would happen. He also tells us the Rome will never again become one great power...even though it would be tried throughout history..
Charlemagne, Charles V, Louis X1V, Napeleon, Hitler and Stalin have attempted to rule the world uniting Europe but each attempt has failed..today we see Europe trying to gel together again..it will not happen....

Daniels prophecy concerning the 4 great world powers have now ended...We are living now in the end times..

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Do christians have any descriptions of dajjal?

We as muslims believe he will have coarse hair, blind in one eye and visible thru another which floats in his eye like a protruding grape, he will have very red skin and the distance between his eyes will be 70 cubits long (how long is a cubit?

:peace:!

[Nicola]

Do christians have any descriptions of dajjal?

We as muslims believe he will have coarse hair, blind in one eye and visible thru another which floats in his eye like a protruding grape, he will have very red skin and the distance between his eyes will be 70 cubits long (how long is a cubit?

:peace:!

we have no physical description of him.

We know he will be religious and that religion will be a counterfit of Christianity.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Sounds different to our dajjal.
:w:

[IceQueen~]

the gate of Lud where dajjal will be caught is where the zionist major state airport is built. dajjal will ride a donkey with ears stretched wide to the side and travelling as fast as the clouds-aeroplane?
prophet Isa (P) will descend at the white minarets of damascus mosque-that masjid is white now.

[glo]

If you want to explore the Anti-Christ and the end of times scenario according to what is probably the most generally accepted Christian view, I would suggest reading the Left Behind series of books. I think they have been turned into movies too. I warn you that you might be offended. They tend to have that "non christians get their guts pulled out by God" mentality.

Hi searchingsoul :)

I think it is important to remember that the Left Behind series are fiction.
A human attempt to interpret the message of Revelation into our times - but fiction nonetheless.
Personally, I would not describe them as 'the most generally accepted Christian view' of the end times. :rollseyes
I always feel it is very dangerous to assume to know God's plans. Only God knows how and when the end times will occur. I keep a very open mind about such things.

Blessings.

[Nicola]

the gate of Lud where dajjal will be caught is where the zionist major state airport is built. dajjal will ride a donkey with ears stretched wide to the side and travelling as fast as the clouds-aeroplane?
prophet Isa (P) will descend at the white minarets of damascus mosque-that masjid is white now.

when you say he will ride a donkey...are you meaning that literaly?

[Nicola]

Hi searchingsoul :)

I think it is important to remember that the Left Behind series are fiction.
A human attempt to interpret the message of Revelation into our times - but fiction nonetheless.
Personally, I would not describe them as 'the most generally accepted Christian view' of the end times. :rollseyes
I always feel it is very dangerous to assume to know God's plans. Only God knows how and when the end times will occur. I keep a very open mind about such things.

Blessings.

do you know the name of the autor...Glo

haven't seen you around in awhile..:)

[Ayesha Rana]

when you say he will ride a donkey...are you meaning that literaly?

Nope it's a metaphoric. Alot of the hadith relating to the future were, to help the Arabs back then understand cos they didn't know about much technology and stuff.
(By the way i like your new Avatar Glo)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Sounds different to our dajjal.
:w:

yes very :eek:, dajjal being religious is a joke! He will be the root of evil! But he will seem like a religious leader to many.

:sl:

[Nicola]

yes very :eek:, dajjal being religious is a joke! He will be the root of evil! But he will seem like a religious leader to many.

:sl:

why don't you think he won't be a religious man...there are many religions out there that are not of God..just because you are religious doesn't mean you worship God..

2Th 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

2Th 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,

2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

2Th 2:11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,

2Th 2:12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2Th 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

2Th 2:14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Th 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

2Th 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Do you believe that he will claim to be God?

[glo]

why don't you think he won't be a religious man...there are many religions out there that are not of God..just because you are religious doesn't mean you worship God..

Hi Nicola

I agree with you.
'Religiousness' can be something quite negative. Jesus made that very clear when he criticised 'religious' people, such as the pharisees.

Blessings. :)

[Nicola]

Nope it's a metaphoric. Alot of the hadith relating to the future were, to help the Arabs back then understand cos they didn't know about much technology and stuff.
(By the way i like your new Avatar Glo)

thanks
are your prophecies for the end times...in the Quran or the Hadith..or both.

[Nicola]

Do you believe that he will claim to be God?

Yes I believe he will....we are told he will do wonders.

2Th 2:11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false.

Many people will believe this man, and accept the mark of the beast..the wheat is going to be sieved from the chaff...

[glo]

do you know the name of the autor...Glo

haven't seen you around in awhile..:)

The author of the left behind series?
Tim LeHaye and Jerry Jenkins, I think. I only ever read the first book. Don't know how many there are altogether.

Yep, I've been busy ... and pondering my membership in this forum ... :rollseyes

Blessings.

[glo]

(By the way i like your new Avatar Glo)

It'll do for now ...
I have another one in mind, but I am checking out it's suitablity with the moderators ...

Peace.

[searchingsoul]

Hi searchingsoul :)

I think it is important to remember that the Left Behind series are fiction.
A human attempt to interpret the message of Revelation into our times - but fiction nonetheless.
Personally, I would not describe them as 'the most generally accepted Christian view' of the end times. :rollseyes
I always feel it is very dangerous to assume to know God's plans. Only God knows how and when the end times will occur. I keep a very open mind about such things.

Blessings.

Hi. Yes I know they are fiction. They do present the end of time prophesies as most Christians in the US tend to perceive them. They deal with the Anti-Christ, rapture of Christians, and biblical prophesies. The books take the prophesies and present them as they may occur in present society.

I too agree that it's dangerous to assume to know the plans of God. It's been my experience that few Christians actually keep an open mind. Most Christians I've known prefer to take the word of a priest or minister for religious instruction. Actually reading and researching Christianity independently seems to be too much work for some people.

I am in no way saying that the Left Behind series is 100% accurate. No one knows what will actually happen. I must say that they present the biblical prophesies pretty accurately for those who prefer a literal explanation. No one can deny that the Bible paints a horrible picture for non Christians.

[Nicola]

I believe God always tells us his plans for the future..and we have those plans already...revelation is what is needed and that can only come from the Holy Spirit.....he always warns first..he always has done thoughout the OT...prophets where told what was to come...
Though we don't know the name of the antichrist...we do know what is to come.

I agree searchingsoul...we must always take revelation from minsters etc..at face value first...test these spirits...let the Holy Spirit guide us in Gods word...that is who I rely on...not man. Our communion must be with God alone. Jesus made that path open to us.

Peace

[searchingsoul]

Do christians have any descriptions of dajjal?

We as muslims believe he will have coarse hair, blind in one eye and visible thru another which floats in his eye like a protruding grape, he will have very red skin and the distance between his eyes will be 70 cubits long (how long is a cubit?

:peace:!

From this description he sounds like a beast. Is he suppose to be human or some sort of beastlike creature?

[Nicola]

From this description he sounds like a beast. Is he suppose to be human or some sort of beastlike creature?

;D thats so funny...well with that description...there sure won't be any doubt...so doubt he'll get very far decieving anyone....:giggling:

[Abdullah4ever]

:sl:

Here is an interseting hadith guys about the dajjal:

Taken From Sahih Muslim
Book 041, Number 7028:

Amir b. Sharahil Sha"bi Sha"b Hamdan reported that he asked Fatima, daughter of Qais and sister of ad-Dahhak b. Qais and she was the first amongst the emigrant women: Narrate to me a hadith which you had heard directly from Allah"s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and there is no extra link in between them. She said: Very well, if you like, I am prepared to do that, and he said to her: Well, do It and narrate that to me. She said: I married the son of Mughira and he was a chosen young man of Quraish at that time, but he fell as a martyr in the first Jihad (fighting) on the side of Allah"s Messenger (may peace be upon him). When I became a widow, "Abd al-Rahman b. Auf, one amongst the group of the Companions of Allah"s Messenger (may peace be upon him), sent me the proposal of marriage. Allah"s Messenger (may peace be upon him) also sent me such a message for his freed slave Usama b. Zaid. And it had been conveyed to me that Allah"s Messenger (way peace be upon him) had said (about Usama): He who loves me should also love Usima. When Allah"s Messenger (may peace be upon him) talked to me (about this matter), I said: My affairs are in your hand. You may marry me to anyone whom you like. He said: You better shift now to the house of Umm Sharik, and Umm Sharik was a rich lady from amongst the Anqir. She spent generously for the cause of Allah and entertained guests very hospitably. I said: Well, I will do as you like. He said: Do not do that for Umm Sharik is a woman who is very frequently vizited by guests and I do not like that your head may be uncovered or the cloth may be removed from your shank and the strangers may catch sight of them which you abhor. You better shift to the house of your cousin "Abdullah b. "Amr b. Umm Maktum and he is a person of the Bani Fihr branch of the Quraish, and he belonged to that tribe (to which Fatima) belonged. So I shifted to that house, and when my period of waiting was over, I heard the voice of an announcer making an announcement that the prayer would be observed in the mosque (where) congregational prayer (is observed).

So I set out towards that mosque and observed prayer along with Allah"s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and I was in the row of the women which was near the row of men. When Allah"s Messenger (may peace be upon him) had finished his prayer, he sat on the pulpit smiling and said: Every worshipper should keep sitting at his place. He then said: Do you know why I had asked you to assemble? They said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He said: By Allah. I have not made you assemble for exhortation or for a warning, but I have detained you here, for Tamim Dari, a Christian, who came and accepted Islam, told me something, which agrees with what I was-telling, you about the Dajjal. He narrated to me that he had sailed in a ship along with thirty men of Bani Lakhm and Bani Judham and had been tossed by waves in the ocean for a month. Then these (waves) took them (near) the land within the ocean (island) at the time of sunset. They sat in a small side-boat and entered that Island. There was a beast with long thick hair (and because of these) they could not distinguish his face from his back. They said: Woe to you, who can you be? Thereupon it said: I am al-Jassasa. They said: What is al-Jassasa? And it said: O people, go to this person in the monastery as he is very much eager to know about you. He (the narrator) said: When it named a person for us we were afraid of it lest it should be a Devil. Then we hurriedly went on till we came to that monastery and found a well-built person there with his hands tied to his neck and having iron shackles between his two legs up to the ankles. We said: Woe be upon thee, who are you? And he said: You would soon come to know about me. but tell me who are you. We said: We are people from Arabia and we embarked upon a boat but the sea-waves had been driving us for one month and they brought as near this island. We got Into the side-boats and entered this island and here a beast met us with profusely thick hair and because of the thickness of his hair his face could not be distinguished from his back. We said: Woe be to thee, who are you? It said: I am al- Jassasa. We said: What is al-Jassasa? And it said: You go to this very person in the monastery for he is eagerly waiting for you to know about you. So we came to you in hot haste fearing that that might be the Devil. He (that chained person) said: Tell me about the date-palm trees of Baisan. We &aid: About what aspect of theirs do you seek information? He said: I ask you whether these trees bear fruit or not.

We said: Yes Thereupon he said: I think these would not bear fruits. He said: Inform me about the lake of Tabariyya? We said: Which aspect of it do you want to know? He said: Is there water in it? They said: There is abundance of water in it. Thereupon he said: I think it would soon become dry. He again said: Inform me about the spring of Zughar. They said: Which aspect of it you want to know? He (the chained person) said: Is there water in it and does it irrigate (the land)? We said to him: Yes, there is abundance of water in it and the inhabitants (of Medina) irrigate (land) with the help of it, He said: Inform me about the unlettered Prophet; what has he done? We said: He has come out from Mecca and has settled In Yathrib (Medina). He said: Do the Arabs fight against him? We said: Yes. He said: How did he deal with him? We informed him that he had overcome those in his neighbourhood and they had submitted themselves before him. Thereupon he said to us: Had it actually happened? We said: Yes. Thereupon he said: If it is so that is better for them that they should show obedience to him. I am going to tell you about. myself and I am Dajjal and would be soon permitted to get out and so I shall get out and travel in the land, and will not spare any town where I would not stay for forty nights except Mecca and Medina as these two (places) are prohibited (areas) for me and I would not make an attempt to enter any one of these two. An angel with a sword in his hand would confront me and would bar my way and there would be angels to guard every passage leading to it; then Allah"s Messenger (may peace be upon him) striking the pulpit with the help of the end of his staff said: This implies Taiba meaning Medina. Have I not, told you an account (of the Dajjal) like this? "The people said: Yes, and this account narrated by Tamim Dari was liked by me for it corroborates the account which I gave to you in regard to him (Dajjal) at Medina and Mecca. Behold he (Dajjal) is in the Syrian sea (Mediterranian) or the Yemen sea (Arabian sea). Nay, on the contrary, he As In the east, he is in the east, he is in the east, and he pointed with his hand towards the east. I (Fatima bint Qais) said: I preserved It In my mind (this narration from Allah"s Messenger (may peace be upon him).

[searchingsoul]

every nations that denys God and falls for a false religion is going to suffer great judgments from God..
this is why God is telling us to come out of all false religions in the book of Revelation.

How do we know which religions are false?

[Nicola]

How do we know which religions are false?

The ones that deny Jesus is the Christ

[Ghazi]

The ones that deny Jesus is the Christ

:sl:

For your sake I hope you accept islam in your life time.

[- Qatada -]

How do we know which religions are false?

Hey.

Religion should be a way of life, and should make perfect sense. It shouldn't have any flaws in it, and it shouldn't be doubtful and unreliable [for example: in its sources etc.]

Religion—sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system—is commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the moral codes, practices and institutions associated with such belief. In its broadest sense some have defined it as the sum total of answers given to explain humankind's relationship with the universe. In the course of the development of religion, it has taken a huge number of forms in various cultures and individuals.

source: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...e+Search&meta=


You can create a new thread, and it may be alot more easier to discuss the topic in more detail insha'Allaah (God willing.)


Peace.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

glo why you considering your membership in this forum?*sad*
-Peace

[glo]

glo why you considering your membership in this forum?*sad*
-Peace

Don't be sad, Mu'MiNaH ... I am still here ...

It's just that it can be quite hard to read those posts which either insult my faith or the people who share my faith. :(

But this is an Islamic forum, and people have and will express those views. It is up to me to decide whether I want to be exposed to them. :rollseyes

Blessings. :)

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Oh ok, well i hope i haven't imsulted you*sad*.
If i have, please forgive me!
-Peace

[glo]

Oh ok, well i hope i haven't imsulted you*sad*.
If i have, please forgive me!
-Peace

That's kind of you! :)
I don't think you have ... but it's in not like I'm keeping a log or anything. :giggling:

peace.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Lol that's good.
:w:

[Nicola]

:sl:
:peace:

Where do christians think anti-christ will come from? Is it baby?BabyLoN?

:peace:
:w:

from Rome.. the vatican

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings be upon him) said:

"The Dajjal will emerge in a land in the east called Khurasan ..."

[Sahih Muslim: 4072.]

Khurasan is in present day iran and part of afghanistan.

map.


:wasalamex

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Jazak-Allah khayr akhee.
I heard he would first be seen in yemen (?).
:w:

[searchingsoul]

The Bible doesn't specify which country the anti-christ will come from. There are different speculations but no one knows for sure.

[- Qatada -]

:wasalamex


There are alot of weak ahadith about ad-dajjal, so maybe its a weak hadith which you heard? Or if you could find the hadith, then that would be good insha'Allaah.


This site is really good though:

http://www.islamworld.net/HADITH/SIGNS.html


And you can download the lectures on the signs of qiyamah by brother imam anwar al awlaki from the following link insha'Allaah:

http://lectures.kalamullah.com

Download the set of lectures called The Hereafter Volume 1 insha'Allaah.


:salamext:

[glo]

The Bible doesn't specify which country the anti-christ will come from. There are different speculations but no one knows for sure.

I agree that nobody knows for sure.
All the more reason to remain vigilant and true to one's beliefs!

Blessings. :)

[starfortress]

salam and greeting to all

watch out that guy is around, but in movie "The Omen" on 06/06/2006 representing(666)the Number Of The Beast,here the movie tagline "From the eternal sea he rises. Creating armies on either shore. Turning man against his brother until man exists no more..." thats make a sense if you look to the world today.I think this film will receive a similar reputation as a Dvinci Code.whos knows about Freemason and New World Order, because i think these both subject has a connection with Antichrist or Omen or The Beast or Al-Dajjal etc.But i heard in christian prophecy i guess, the Antichrist will not appear until the 12 tribe of Israel has come back to Palestine and rebuilt the third and final temple, It will built on the same site of the first and second Jewish Temple in Jerusalem in the time of Jewish Messiah according to Judaism.But it is also the same site of two major Muslim religious shrines, the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque.I think in modern day term of Antichrist or Dajjal will fit and suite as a high-ranking political leader or diplomat, who will initially do very good, popular things, which will win him many followers. It is said that the Antichrist will then recreate the miracles of the first century alluding to the miracles rendered by Jesus Christ. These may include, but are not limited to, seemingly raising the dead, curing the blind, alleviating hunger, transmuting water to wine, and so forth.
Muslims identified the Antichrist as a man who will come in the end times, who will command great powers, and will be popular in his heyday but will cause havoc and spread terror around the world. He is called Al Massih Al-Dajjal. Al-Massih refers to Messiah and Dajjal refers to the fact of being False/Liar.

I think this is a good and interesting topic for both Christian and Islam.

:happy:

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

The Omen... *frightened*.
:w:

[north_malaysian]

Is it true that Dajjal will come from Bermuda Triangle (Kingdom of the Jinns)?

I've seen Secret Bible Week on National Geographic - regarding apocalypse - why they describe antichrist as somebody popular and have Blue eyes?

[syilla]

Is it true that Dajjal will come from Bermuda Triangle (Kingdom of the Jinns)?

Can anyone tell me the origin of Dajjal

[north_malaysian]

Can anyone tell me the origin of Dajjal

From both Muslim and Christian sources, Dajjal supposes to be a human being, isnt it?

[syilla]

From both Muslim and Christian sources, Dajjal supposes to be a human being, isnt it?

i read somewhere...but totally forgotten about it

do the Dajjals have parents?

from what i've learnt there will be at least 33 Dajjals

correct me if i'm wrong

[Muslim Knight]

From both Muslim and Christian sources, Dajjal supposes to be a human being, isnt it?

I don't think so. He has existed even since the time of the Prophet Muhammad. There is a hadith of Tamim Dari, a Muslim who converted from Christianity, who in his travels actually met with Dajjal. He later told about this to the Prophet.

If Dajjal has existed from that point of time to the End of Times, then it is most probably he is not human. He is an evil being created by God, and he possess great powers with which to deceive men into following him. He may appear as a human being. He will even impersonate as the Messiah which the Jews will come to follow. That is why he is named Dajjal Al-Masih (The False Messiah).

[Pukandi baba]

from Rome.. the vatican

Ooooh is it the pope? :giggling:

[HeiGou]

Ooooh is it the pope? :giggling:

Christians have usually interpreted the Anti-Christ to be their enemy of the day. So many Protestants usually claim that the Pope is, in fact, the Anti-Christ. The Reverend Iain Paisley for instance does to this day.

Personally I think it is a description of America but that is just me. Whoops, there goes my visa chances.

[Pukandi baba]

Christians have usually interpreted the Anti-Christ to be their enemy of the day. So many Protestants usually claim that the Pope is, in fact, the Anti-Christ. The Reverend Iain Paisley for instance does to this day.

Personally I think it is a description of America but that is just me. Whoops, there goes my visa chances.

You mean Dubya Bush? He's the antichrist? LOL

[jss]

You mean Dubya Bush? He's the antichrist? LOL

Well I guess most ppl on here would agree with me that Bush is too slow off the mark to be.

[Nicola]

Ooooh is it the pope? :giggling:

It's the man made church-state religio-political power
We are told in Daniel...

Dan 7:25 He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

which other religious leaders set themselves up at the Almighty God?

Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) wrote: "We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God." (1 Book of Gregory 9 Decret. c.3)

The Lateran Council addressing Pope Julius II in an oration delivered by Marcellus said: "Take care that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which thou hast given us, for thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician, thou art our governor, thou art our husbandman, thou art finally another God on earth." (Council Edition. Colm. Agrip. 1618)

Pope Nicholas said of himself: "I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do…wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God, what do you make of me but God? Again, if prelates of the Church be called of Constantine for gods, I then being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore, no marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the precepts of Christ." (Decret. par. Distinct 96 ch. 7 edit. Lugo 1661)

The RC New York catechism states: "The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.

The title "Lord God the Pope" - these words appeared in the Canon Law of Rome. "To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical." (The Gloss extravagances of Pope John XXII Cum. Inter, tit XIV Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685)

Writers on Canon Law say: "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." (Barclay Cap. XXVII p. 218 Cities Petrus Bertanous, Pius V)

Pope Nicholas I declared that "the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who being God, cannot be judged by man." (Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can 7 Satis Evidentur Decret Gratian Primer Para)

Which religion killed Gods saints? we only at to read the history of the RCC.
Which religon changed Gods times and law? From a Saturday to a Sunday day of rest?

Dan 8:25 By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken--but by no human hand.

God will destroy this false religion in the book of Revelation we are told God will call his people out of Babylon...Babylon is all false worship.

Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;

[north_malaysian]

Christians have usually interpreted the Anti-Christ to be their enemy of the day. So many Protestants usually claim that the Pope is, in fact, the Anti-Christ. The Reverend Iain Paisley for instance does to this day.

Personally I think it is a description of America but that is just me. Whoops, there goes my visa chances.

Your view is just like most Muslims - AMERICA. Hmmm.... I doubt Bush is the anti-christ - he's not popular.

[starfortress]

:sl:

Peace to Bro & Sis


‘…But I will tell you something which no Prophet has told his people.Verily he (Dajjal) is one-eyed and Allah is not one-eyed.’

(Bukhari)

[- Qatada -]

Hei Gou, this topic isn't about who dajjal is, but where he's from.


Stay on topic.

[syilla]

you will never know his evils... he is very witty

[syilla]

i know he will not be in Mecca and Madinah...

but will he travel and go to America?:?

[Muezzin]

If I wasn't Muslim, I'd think that the Anti-Christ would come from Saffron Lane.

Or Birmingham.

[ACC]

from Rome.. the vatican

Never heard this except from the most fervent anti-Catholics.

[- Qatada -]

i know he will not be in Mecca and Madinah...

but will he travel and go to America?:?

:salamext:


From what i've heard in lectures and from the ahadith i have read - he will travel the whole world except Makkah and Medina. Allaah Almighty knows best.


:wasalamex

[ACC]

It's the man made church-state religio-political power
We are told in Daniel...



which other religious leaders set themselves up at the Almighty God?


Which religion killed Gods saints? we only at to read the history of the RCC.
Which religon changed Gods times and law? From a Saturday to a Sunday day of rest?

God will destroy this false religion in the book of Revelation we are told God will call his people out of Babylon...Babylon is all false worship.

There have been bad Pope's, but then again, luther thought satan was trying to enter him through his anus and would fling human waste at satan in his 'visions'. Now it is a common error of non-Catholics to believe that Catholics worship the Pope. He is greatly respected, but is seen as the representative of Christ on Earth, not as Christ though. Very big difference. Calling Catholics 'Papists is similiar to calling Muslims "Mohammedens' (I know no one called Catholics Papists here, but showing an example).

[4-Christ-Alone]

hello friends

Interestinging thread, i have been told, but i dont know what this is based on, that the anti-christ would come from brussels, like i sayed i dont know what basis this is on, im sure some1 on God tv said so, but if any of you know more please elaberate.

I have also herd, and this does make sense to me, that satan is waiting on God moving in the gog magog war, the russian lead attack in isreal that is prophisised in Daniel, befoere he brings the anti-christ onto the scene, im sure the anti-chrst will bring peace to isreal aswell i think, what better time than after a major attack on it intercepted by God himself. i dont know if these suggestings are scriptural or just suggestions, but i will be sure to check.

Peace

Sean

[syilla]

:salamext:


From what i've heard in lectures and from the ahadith i have read - he will travel the whole world except Makkah and Medina. Allaah Almighty knows best.


:wasalamex

then he must be there...hmm....:rollseyes

[north_malaysian]

The most popular radio morning program in Malaysia HITZ.FM did some jokings about tomorrow - 06/06/06 = 666

[syilla]

hahaha.... i remember watching that movies

[syilla]

Dajjal is already in this earth rite?

We just don't know who is he rite?

When you hear that the Dajjal has appeared, flee him. Because a person may go to his side while yet intending to deny him, but will remain and follow him. That is because there are many things with the Dajjal that fill the heart with misgivings. Abu Dawud, 14.

source :
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/m...jal.html#notes

[Ayesha Rana]

i read somewhere...but totally forgotten about it

do the Dajjals have parents?

from what i've learnt there will be at least 33 Dajjals

correct me if i'm wrong

I think those are the false Dajjals. As in people who claimed the same thing as Dajjal but wernet him.

[Ayesha Rana]

I don't think so. He has existed even since the time of the Prophet Muhammad. There is a hadith of Tamim Dari, a Muslim who converted from Christianity, who in his travels actually met with Dajjal. He later told about this to the Prophet.

Yeah Tamim ud-Dari travelled for a month in the red sea till he came to an Island. HE saw a creature which was so hairy that he couldn't tell it's front from its back. The creature addressed himself as Jasaas(or something)-meaning spy- and led Tamim ud-Dari to a monestry. That's where he spoke to Dajjal.
I heared a lecture by a scholar called Imran Hossein who belives that this Island was Britain cos it's the only Island one months distance from the red sea and that the hairy creature he met implies that the Island is not only a place of deceit but also spying, and Britain holds the worlds largest spy base. The reason why we can't see Dajjal is cos he is in a different dimention of time to us and will only appear in that period of his reign on earth which is like our days.
There's other stuff too but i gotta look it up.Salaam.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Dajjal is already in this earth rite?

We just don't know who is he rite?

When you hear that the Dajjal has appeared, flee him. Because a person may go to his side while yet intending to deny him, but will remain and follow him. That is because there are many things with the Dajjal that fill the heart with misgivings. Abu Dawud, 14.

source :
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/m...jal.html#notes

:sl:

The dajjal will have coarse her, very red skin, the distance between his eyes will be 70 cubits long, (THATS HUGE), he will be blind in one eye and the other will be protruding like a grape!

^^ Clear description of dajjal... i dont kno any1 who fits that description and im SURE THEY WILL B ON THE NEWS!!!

:w:

[Skillganon]

@ Christian.

WHen Jesus return's, will he bring a new message (teaching) or he will follow the teaching he was preaching?

[Sweet-Revenge]

He will come from Israel.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

He will come from Israel.

:sl:

lol? i admit israel seems deserving of his presence and wen he comes he will be surrounded by jews but i sometimes wonder if those jews are zionist jews...

:w: