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Serene
05-12-2005, 04:27 AM
Asslamu Alikum,


I am not sure iif this is the right place to be writing in, but I want to tell you about my MA thesis in the translation of the Holy Qur'an and see if you could help me with that.

I am trying to prepare an MA thesis on the translation of the meanings og Qur'an. I just want to make sure that my research effort won't be wasted. In other words, I want to receive your feedback, your thoughts, your ideas about what issues that needd to be handled.

I know it is a bit hard, but I want to tell you that whatever you may say here can be very useful. Try to share your opnions about the best version of translations. What is it that you find difficult to grasp in different translations. What do you prefer most in different styles of translation: modern ones, literal or communicative...? Anything that you could think of will be of great help inshaa Allah. MAy Allah help us all to know better and help those who do not know

Khaldun
05-12-2005, 08:54 AM
:sl:

well first of all to say the least the incredible rythm of the Quran is totally lost and with it its accuracy. Take the example of the plural form "Hum" which is often translated into "they" but arabic also has "Huma" which indicatees two persons, but english doesnt have this distinction you are recruied to say "the two of them". This is minor point, there are others which include words such as Daalika Tilka and Kilta which sometimes can be translated unfairly. On a whole the Quran is losing out its richness by any translation, however sometimes translations are needed, and one of the good ones i refer to is Dr. Muhsin Khan's.

Danish
05-12-2005, 10:17 AM
:sl:
i prefer Packhtal's

bro_faz
05-12-2005, 04:33 PM
Pickthall is good for tafseer i recommend Tafsir ibn kathir

Serene
05-12-2005, 04:33 PM
Jazakum Allhau Khayran for replying to my inquiry. Still I need to hear from as many of you on your opinions about different translations, certain verses that defy understanding in certain ways of trnslation, or some obscurity added by the trnslator. Your participations are most welcome and truly appreciated. Who knows, maybe this very thread could help lead to something useful to muslims all over the world

Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-12-2005, 04:35 PM
:sl:

well first of all to say the least the incredible rythm of the Quran is totally lost and with it its accuracy. Take the example of the plural form "Hum" which is often translated into "they" but arabic also has "Huma" which indicatees two persons, but english doesnt have this distinction you are recruied to say "the two of them". This is minor point, there are others which include words such as Daalika Tilka and Kilta which sometimes can be translated unfairly. On a whole the Quran is losing out its richness by any translation, however sometimes translations are needed, and one of the good ones i refer to is Dr. Muhsin Khan's.

:w:

very very true about the Quran losing its richness in any translation, especially english.

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-12-2005, 08:15 PM
:sl:
I strongly recommend that you read Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi's review of the various translations found in his book An Introdcution to the Sciences of the Qur'aan.

From an Aqeedah (creed/beliefs) perspective, the Khan/Hilali translation is the most accurate. It can be read here:
http://www.al-sunnah.com/call_to_islam/quran/index.html

Yusuf Ali is very smooth from an english perspective, however there are errors in the commentary and minor inaccuracies in the translation. Muhammad F. Malik is another smooth translation.

Abdul Majid Daryabadi's trnalstion has some interesting commentary which provides a comparative religion perspective. It is also a fairly good translation.

The best translation is probably The Qur'aan: Arabic text with corresponding english meanings. Released by Saheeh International.
http://www.al-basheer.com/mas_assets/full/5291.jpg
http://www.al-basheer.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=5291
http://kitaabun.com/shopping3/product_info.php?products_id=170
http://www.bysiness.co.uk/quran/saheeh_international.htm
An ad is found in this:
http://www.faruq.co.uk/portfolio/webstarwebsites1/alhidaayaah/pdf/quran.pdf

:w:

Rafay
05-13-2005, 02:46 AM
The one i have is this one: http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b4999.html
i didnt buy it from here, my brotehr give to me as a gift, he bought it from an online islamic bookstore, i dont know the website, but this is the one.
Its very good alhumdulilah, i find the translation to be very understandable and effective at the same time, also, its a summarized versoin of at-tabari, al-qurtubi and ibn kathir, with comments from Sahih Al-Bukhari, so it has like hadtihs corresponding with the ayats under the pages, its very nice. Its by Dr Muhammad Muhsin Khan and Dr. Muhammad Taqi-Ud-Din Al Hilali, Ph. D. (Berlin)

Ibn Syed
05-13-2005, 02:51 AM
:sl:
I seem to use Yusuf Ali more.
:w:

jawanazam
05-13-2005, 03:13 AM
:s: i prefer ibn kathir for in deeper understanding however I more than often use Dr Hilali and Dr Khan for its conveniance

Ibn Syed
05-13-2005, 03:30 AM
I have an Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips book that gives understanding on surahs.

BlissfullyJaded
05-13-2005, 04:22 AM
:sl:

Mostly Dr. Hilali / Dr Khan. :)

And sometimes Abdul Majid Daryabadi's transalation. :)

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-13-2005, 06:21 AM
Both are good.
:w:

Serene
05-13-2005, 02:41 PM
Mashaa Allah... Jazakum Allah all khayran. I am really blessed to have your help, dear vrothers and sisters. I feel guided by Allah Almighty that I am here amongst you to receive yout most appreciated feedback.

I would like to thank you once more and to ask if you may like to take part in questionaires or to answer certain questions regarding my MA thesis. For the time being I have nothing in particular, but I will be meeting my supervisor tomorrow inshaa Allah, plz pray for me.

One more thing, what do you think of passivization in Qur'an. Do you think it is problematic? or is it easy for you to grasp? How do different trnaslators handle it as you see it? DO you think this might be a good field for study?

I will be waiting for your replies.
Salam Alikum wa Rahamtu Allah wa Barkatu

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-15-2005, 07:58 PM
:sl:

One more thing, what do you think of passivization in Qur'an.
I'm not sure what you mean. Could you be more specific? perhaps with an example?

:w:

Bint Abdusattar
05-15-2005, 08:01 PM
:sl:

I prefer Dr Muhsin Khan's translation as it is easy to read.
Zaid Shakir's translation is also good.

:w:

Serene
05-16-2005, 06:57 AM
Asslamu Alikum,
Hope this finds you all well. As for passivization, it is the use of passive voice in Qur'an. Generally passive can be used for a variety of reasons, such as emphasis on the action itself, not knowing the doer of the action or if the doer is too obvious to be mentioned. How do yoiu preceive the use of passives in that sense?
I would like to ask about this book: An Introdcution to the Sciences of the Qur'aan, you have recomended it before. I want to know how I can get this book and whether it is in English or in Arabic. Jazakum Allahu khayran for your cooperation.

Noora_z3
05-16-2005, 09:42 AM
salam Alykum all

well their is a new and a very good tafsir of the Qur'an in English, it is entitled "Tafsir Ishraq Al-Ma'ani" by Syed Iqbal Zaheer, (the Editor of Young Muslim Digest, bangalore" an indian from Bangalore, published from Iqra Welfare Trsut, bangalore, India. The tafsir is still under progress, till now almost 10 volums out, untill Surah Al-Nur. Well, i advise each and every one of u to have it. The author tried to present how the Qur'an was understood by the prophet and his Sahabah, also how the scholars of Islam have understood it in every age. It also presents useful notes, variant openions, anecdotes and legal points from commentries of the old and the new.

I referred to this tafsire a lot for my master thesis, it is a uniqe and useful english tafsir, especially for research workers. Sis, Serena, tell me if u r intrested in attaingin this Tafsir . Wassalam.

Serene
05-17-2005, 04:38 PM
Asslamu Alikum,

Sure sister Noora, I would love very much to attain this tafsir, I was going to ask you abt how to. You have mentioned something abt ur MA thesis, I would love to hear abt it and to see in what branch of knwledge you are doing it. I will be waiting for your reply.

Once again, I asked abt a book recomended by Ansar Alhaq, I suppose. The book was titled: An Introduction to the Sciemces of Qur'an. I would like to receive more information abt the book and see if it is in English or in Arabic.

Thank you all for your cooperationa nd will be waiting for your replies.

Salam

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-17-2005, 05:30 PM
Asslamu Alikum,
Hope this finds you all well. As for passivization, it is the use of passive voice in Qur'an. Generally passive can be used for a variety of reasons, such as emphasis on the action itself, not knowing the doer of the action or if the doer is too obvious to be mentioned. How do yoiu preceive the use of passives in that sense?
I understood what you meant by passive sentences, eg. "I was hit", as oppose to, "he hit me". But I wasn't sure if you were referring to any specifc examples from the Qur'an. If you want me to comment in general, then I would say that passive sentences are used because the Qur'an is not concerned with a record of "who did what", but mored importantly, what happened and its moral significance to the Qur'an's readers. Every story is precisely worded so that the best amount of detail is given, no extra details, nothing missing that was important.


I would like to ask about this book: An Introdcution to the Sciences of the Qur'aan, you have recomended it before. I want to know how I can get this book and whether it is in English or in Arabic. Jazakum Allahu khayran for your cooperation.
Clcik the following link, and you can order it online:
http://islamicbookstore.com/b4260.html
It is in english, but it quotes extensively from arabic sources. Trust me, its the best book on the subject, and very well explained and detailed.

:w:

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-17-2005, 05:34 PM
salam Alykum all

well their is a new and a very good tafsir of the Qur'an in English, it is entitled "Tafsir Ishraq Al-Ma'ani" by Syed Iqbal Zaheer, (the Editor of Young Muslim Digest, bangalore" an indian from Bangalore, published from Iqra Welfare Trsut, bangalore, India. The tafsir is still under progress, till now almost 10 volums out, untill Surah Al-Nur. Well, i advise each and every one of u to have it. The author tried to present how the Qur'an was understood by the prophet and his Sahabah, also how the scholars of Islam have understood it in every age. It also presents useful notes, variant openions, anecdotes and legal points from commentries of the old and the new.

I referred to this tafsire a lot for my master thesis, it is a uniqe and useful english tafsir, especially for research workers. Sis, Serena, tell me if u r intrested in attaingin this Tafsir . Wassalam.

:sl: Where can one purchase this tafsir? I could only find the following link:
http://www.alhodanet.com/details.asp?i=107F6

JazakAllah khair.
:w:

Ibn Syed
05-17-2005, 09:37 PM
Try google or Yahoo searches.
:w:

Tazkiyahtulnafs
05-18-2005, 05:33 AM
i use yusuf ali but i think Packhtal is really good also

Noora_z3
05-18-2005, 09:38 AM
Sister Serena and Bro Ansar, I will check out and see where u can get that tafsir in UK.

Sister Serena, my thesis was bout "story of Yusuf in the Quran and the Bible, comparative study". My degree was in comparative religion, I am not from Scince of Quran feild. May I know from where u r tryin to attain ur masters degree?! I am thinkin of some lecturer whom might be of great help to u, unfortunatly I am not in Malaysia any more, its hard to get in touch with them, but I will try to atleast get their numbers, and u can call for advise and openions. I know how hard it is to choose a topic for master's, i been throuh this myself, dont worry, we will help as much as we can, just dnt worry, Allah with u. :wilted_ro

Serene
05-19-2005, 09:07 PM
Asslamu Alikum

Oh that was so kind of you sister Noora. May Allah Almighty bless you and always guide you to whatever HE favors and whatever that will draw you closer to His Providence. I am really so grateful to your help, and the help of all memebers...May Allah reward you all.

The subject of your thesis sounds very interesting, mashaa Allah. I am wishing you all the best in your studies and career.

My thesis will be in linguisitcs, translation in particular. My supervisor has suggested passivization, but I was hoping for something more challenging, something that others would benfit from it. I am still hoping that it would lead to sthg useful.

By the way, i would like to ask any of you if you have an online version of T.B. Irving translation of the Holy Qur'an, it is one of the best and no one has mentioned it so far. I am trying to find it, but so far no luck. I used to access at this site:

[url]http://isgkc.org/EnglishQuran

Thank you everyone, thank you sister Norra, and Brother Ansar Al- Haq... Jazakum Allah khayaran. I am not worrying any more with the help of Allah, then with your help and support inshaa Allah

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-19-2005, 09:22 PM
:sl:
Thanks for your post, Serene. I'm afraid I disagree about the Irving translation, which I have a copy of with me. It is not a good translation at all and there are numerous problems with it, beginning with the very biblical title, "A First American Version". There are no "versions" of the Qur'an.

Another example is his trnaslation in Surat Ash-Shams, I believ, where he writes, "His Lord snarled at him", such an image is not befitting of Allah at all, and not true to the translation.

Anyway, I stick with the translations I've mentioned before.
:w:

bro_faz
05-20-2005, 01:17 PM
Salaam alaykum

According to shaikh Muhammed bin yahya an ninawy (his site www.alhaqq.net) he said the best qura'an is that which is arabic, because english and other languages cannot cater for the words, a word in the qura'an could have 15 translations in english another may have 8 e.g. the qura'an says

Ayah 88, in Surat Al-Qasas
in his Saheeh :

The literal translation of the Ayah is: "everything will perish but His Face"

However, the meaning of the Ayah according to Imam Bukhari is: (Everything
will perish but His Dominion.) Because additions like face, leg, shin, lingers,
foot....etc. is not applicable to Allah The Exalted.
In other words, the proper befitting meanings are not according to the
sensuous and physical meanings that delusions would lead to, such as
places, shapes, limbs, colors, movements, sitting, directions, smiling, running,
laughing, forgetting, or any other meanings which are not permissible to be
attributed to Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala.
Furthermore, the Arabs during the first three centuries spoke the Arabic
language with a natural disposition and great eloquence. Their understanding
of its meaning was very sharp and sufficient. They understood that these
kinds of Ayahs have meanings that befit Allah, and that it is impossible
they would have sensuous and physical meanings which do not befit Allah,
The Exalted.

Taken from page 122 of

SATISFYING THE NEED WITH THE OBLIGATORY CREED OF “ELM AT-TAWHEED”


should you want a copy of this please go to www.islam4everyone.com, and go to important notices on the centre panel of the homepage and download! remembering this is not annotated from his lecture

he also recommended one goes to their local scholar for answers too! (interpretations)

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-20-2005, 05:53 PM
:sl: Veryt ture. Arabic is a rich language.

I posted on the attributes here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/showpost.php?p=9367&postcount=10

:w:

Serene
05-20-2005, 07:44 PM
Jazakum Allah khayran for your helpful insight...

As for the incomparablity of Arabic, this goes without say, for Allah Almighty made it an Arabic Qur'an. Had HE willed to make otherwise, HE would have; but Arabic maintains very unique features that no other language has.

However, the need for translation is non-debateable. It is Allah's mercy that the same first impression of Qur'an through a first hand impact is mercifully maintained throughout whtsoever translation. I did not know that before. I have always wondered how non Arabic-speaking muslims tend to enjoy the rythem of sura Ar-Rahman. Thank God, that all muslims get to be filled with the same spiritual effect of that inner music.

As for the verse "everything will perish but His Face", some will surely opt for this literal translation. However, since face is considered to be the noblest part of all, it may surely symbolize dominion. Allah Almight has always chose earthly examples to draw similarity and make it easier for the human mind to relate to whtever being described. Still, there is nothing whatsoever that holds similarity to HIM.

One final point before I go, I believe that there is no translation that is void of mistakes. Irving sure has his own accomplishment, but of course he is still human and no body is perfect. Many may object to his choice of vocabulary, I do actually. However, I think he tried to bring about a trnslation that muslim American children could relate to and understand as their religious holy book. I believe this is a wonderful goal that would sure lead to some setbacks but still something worthwhile. Irving also maintained a certain pargraphing scheme to go with the arrangement of verses in accordance with the recitation rules of Qur'an. So do not you think that this is another accomplishment? Still, I would not argue with your objections regarding no versions of Qur'an, and his word choice.

PS. do you know an online source for T.B. Irving translation. I still need it for the thesis, and may Allah reward you all in abundance.

Salam Alikum

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-20-2005, 09:31 PM
:sl:
The link you mentioned before is the only one for Irving on the net, and it's not working recently.
All Qur'an translations can be accessed here:
http://www.quran.org.uk/?Page=links&CatID=3

:w:

bro_faz
05-20-2005, 11:41 PM
Allah Almight has always chose earthly examples to draw similarity and make it easier for the human mind to relate to whtever being described. Still, there is nothing whatsoever that holds similarity to HIM.

I totally agree, but wouldn't you see it as an opportunity for humans to use their intellectuality too

Serene
05-21-2005, 03:29 PM
Asslamu Alikum,

May Allah reward you greatly for your response. Thanks a million for the site you have sent, it is incredible. Unforunately, Irving still could not be accessed. It is the will of Allah. Iwill keep on trying. So has any one here read Asad's translation?

Noora_z3
05-21-2005, 07:04 PM
salam Alykum...sorry for the late reply, first thanks a lot..and Jazak Allah sister for all the nice things u said, may Allah make every step in thesis writin process easier and may Allah reward u for each and every moment u spend in researching and writing ur thesis.

By the way, wen chossin a topic, make sure u have a genuine intrest in the topic, regarding the thing that u dont find ur topic challengin enoug, let me tell u sis, no matter wat topic u choose for ur thesis, at a certain point, wen u really get deep into it, touch the lill details, u will find ur topic challenging...coz u will have to sort out lots of probalems and come up with logical conclusions, trust me, after certain amount of research u will find urself fascinated by the topic...:)..

well, regarding the English Tafsir I mentioned, i came to know that it is not being published in UK so far, best way to get it is to get in touch with the publishin house in bangalore, india. Well to make a long story short, I thought I will send u and Bro Ansar couple of copies of the Tafsir, after u have a look at it and all, decide whether u want the whole collection or not. Alright?!...if u agree, send me ur postal address, u too Bro Ansar, I would love u to have this tafsir, due to my great respect for u... :D

Serene
05-21-2005, 07:15 PM
Asslamu Alikum

Dear Sister Noora,

Jazaky Allah khayran. That is extremely kind of you. I am really touched by your kindness. I am speechless towards your generosity. This would be too much of you to send me a copy of tafsir. I am so grateful for your care. Allah knows how much I respect you too, and all members who found the time to write in with information and help

I am also very enlightened by your advice. Your words give me great encouragement

I am very much indebted to you all. May Allah reward you all for your efforts and help

Noora_z3
05-21-2005, 07:34 PM
salam sister...ohhh u really embaressed me by sayin all these things, its nothing my dear sis, its my duty and pleasure. I really want to help u as much as I can, our Ummah needs highly educated women, especially those who put their time and effort in studyin the Qur'an. If i cant give u lill help then i am not a good muslim after all.... :) Insha Allah i will try my best to get some valued openions regardin ur topic, I know of one great scholar over here whome I think will be of great help. Khair insha Allah....:)...dont forget to give me ur postal address as soon as possibale..:)...

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-22-2005, 11:38 PM
:sl:
May Allah swt bless reward you for your generosity, Sister Noora. You don't need to mail it to me though, I'll pick ip from the local islamic bookstore. But indeed Allah swt rewards every good intention. :)

:w:

Serene
05-23-2005, 06:55 PM
Asslamu Alikkum everyone,

Thanks a million sister Noora, and may Allah grant you more knowledge. I do appreciate your efforts. I appreciate all you try to offer here. May Allah bless you all

Noora_z3
05-24-2005, 09:35 AM
:sl:
May Allah swt bless reward you for your generosity, Sister Noora. You don't need to mail it to me though, I'll pick ip from the local islamic bookstore. But indeed Allah swt rewards every good intention. :)

:w:

salam

But i dont think u will get it there, I doubt that, Well check it out, if not, then I will post it to u, naa i am not being generouse or anything like that, I cant get it for free all i have to do is post it with few bucks.. :p

Serene
05-24-2005, 07:42 PM
Asslamu Alikum,

I'd like to repeat my gratitude for all your efforst and replies. I am grateful for your cooperation and help. May Allah bless you all.

Now we can discuss any issues that you deem wrong or inaccurate in a certain translation like the ones brother Ansar Al-'Adl has refered to, such as Irving's choice of vocabulary. By the same token, we could also discuss verses that were well translated. How about that to resume our discussion in here? I will be waiting for your reply

salam for now

N.B. Thank you sister Noora for your concern and care, may Allah bless you

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-24-2005, 11:33 PM
salam

But i dont think u will get it there, I doubt that, Well check it out, if not, then I will post it to u, naa i am not being generouse or anything like that, I cant get it for free all i have to do is post it with few bucks.. :p
:sl: A friend of mine has it. I had a look at it, and mash'Allah it is very detailed.


Now we can discuss any issues that you deem wrong or inaccurate in a certain translation like the ones brother Ansar Al-'Adl has refered to, such as Irving's choice of vocabulary. By the same token, we could also discuss verses that were well translated. How about that to resume our discussion in here? I will be waiting for your reply

:sl: I can give you some more points on the various translations from by book by Yasir Qadhi, but I'll start out with posting IslamOnline's comments on translations:

Only some of the meanings of Qur’an are captured by any translation. Because of this, several translations don’t even claim to translate the Qur’an but rather “the meanings of the Qur’an”. But as long as you appreciate that to really understand the full subtleties and ranges of meanings of the Qur’an you need really to go into the Arabic text, then you will treat translations with appropriate caution. As a matter of fact, in dealing with translations, we are inevitably dealing with interpreting the Qur’an.

Being what it is, there have been many great efforts to interpret the Qur’an. These have employed other additional sources to justify their interpretations. For example, in the explanation of the Qur’an (tafsir) by Tabari, many sayings attributed to the prophet (pbuh) are employed as well as quotes from the Bible. Some translations try to take these sources into account too, however in my opinion the translations which do this tend to distort the meanings of the words of the Qur’an by using other material which is less authentic. This is very dangerous in translation because it sets other material as equal to the Qur’an. That other material can even be easily misunderstood as being part of the Qur’an when, in fact, it is not.

There are two examples of this process that I am aware of. Firstly, The translation “The Noble Qur’an” (A Summarized Version of At-Tabari, Al-Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir with comments from Sahih Al-Bukhari By Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali, Ph.D. Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan ) This one doesn’t actually change the translation as such but it adds large sections in brackets within the translation within which are meanings derived from classical commentaries. This confuses the text of the Qur’an with text from other sources. Usually, text in brackets within a translation is used to give some implied word which is missing, but the meaning of which is clearly in the Qur’an. This is the way it is used in pretty much all translations. Commentaries should be clearly separated from the translated text and should instead be added in footnotes.

I recently became aware of a translation that goes one more step and removed the brackets (Behbudi and Turner’s The Qur’an: A new Interpretation). This means that the meanings of the verses of the Qur’an are now fully mixed in with the meanings of many derived sources of interpretation. In some cases this dramatically changes the obvious meanings of the Qur’anic verses! I would seriously recommend that you do NOT read this translation.

Other translations have other problems. The standard one published by Penguin books by Dawud is a translation not liked by many because of his choice of words. It tends to capture some strange and sometimes negative meanings when others would be preferable. Some Muslims point to the possible reason for this being that Dawud was not a Muslim (but a Jew) and did not pick the most accurate meanings. Arberry is a quite old translation, not widely available any more. It lacks a set of footnotes and comments and similarly sometimes the choice of words is odd and misleading.

There are a few translations that I would recommend. The one I find most useful is written by Yusuf Ali. This has gone through a number of editions and revisions of the commentary. The version produced by Amana Publications is probably the best. This translation is done with an audience in mind, familiar with what was - at the time (1930’s) - the standard King James Bible. It therefore is in a rather antiquated English and uses words like “ye”, “thou”, “thee” etc. But if you can get past these archaisms it is still a very good translation with a thorough commentary suitable for a Western reader and a good index. Of course it is never going to capture all the meanings of the original but it captures a good subset.

Another translation I like is by Muhammad Asad. This translation is very well tuned to the western mind. It contains many good insights into the meanings of the Qur’an. However, sometimes his comments are perhaps too much his opinion and not really justified by the text. So, this is a translation to read along with other translations that expose you to other meanings in the verses. As far as I know there is no edition of this translation with an index but it does have extensive footnotes and comments.

Another translation that is quite popular is by Marmaduke Pickthall. This is quite a direct translation of the Arabic but I have never seen it published with comments and footnotes. This can leave a first-time reader with many unanswered questions.

There are many new translations being published these days, each with a variation in how to approach the Qur’an. I recommend that whichever translation you go with, read others as well to ensure that you appreciate the different possible meanings that the Qur’anic text has.

Finally, I would like to stress again that learning Arabic in some way will help a great deal in your understanding of the Qur’an. Even a fairly basic grasp of the language will help you in many ways. For example, with only a simple ability to recognize words and sentences, you can easily spot where the “translation” is adding a whole phrase to the actual text and this will prevent you from thinking something was part of the Qur’an when it is not. I was quite shocked to see how blatantly this was done in some cases!
http://www.islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=3571

:w:

Serene
05-25-2005, 04:39 PM
Asslamu Alikum wa Rahamtu Allah wa Barkatu,

It was an incredible article that you sent brother Ansar Al-'Adl. It is very useful to read. I also want to welcome brothr Muhammad to our discussion and hope that we all would benfit from it inshaa Allah.

I believ that discussing the different translations and what it suitable or wht is inaccurate can be a very good start. I am glad that the article that brother Ansar Al 'Adl has mentioned the transltion of Muhammad Asad, for it is really different in prespective and has many assets that the other translation lacks, mostly addressing a foreign audience with a jaudo-chirstian background, for Asad was born a jew.

I wonder how you would like our diuscussion to extend. We can either take one translation at a time or try to compare and contrast different translations.

See what is more convenient to you. In the meantime, I would like to ask about favourite tafsirs. I am currently downloading At-Tabari. I am trying to find tafsirs that would pay certain attention to grammatical issues in the Qura'an.

I will be waiting for your feedback
salam for now

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-25-2005, 08:47 PM
:sl:

Here's another article you might find useful:

BY MUSLIMS, 1905-59

1905
Khan, Mohammad Abul Hakim, The Holy Qur'an, (Patiala, 1905), 2 edns. Subtitle: 'With short notes based on the Holy Qur'an or the authentic traditions of the Prophet (pbuh), or/and New Testaments or scientific truth. All fictitious romance, questionable history, and disputed theories have been carefully avoided. A physician by profession, Abul Hakim Khan was not thoroughly versed in Islam. Initially he had Qadyani leanings which he later recanted. His translation is more of a rejoinder to the anti-Islam missionary propaganda rife in the day than a piece of sound Qur'anic scholarship. Contains scant notes. His translation is badly marred by literalism.
1912
Dehlawi Mirza Hairat (ed.), The Koran: Prepared by Various Oriental Learned Scholars and Edited by Mirza Hairat (Delhi, 1912). 2 edns. Though intended as 'a complete and exhaustive reply to the manifold criticisms of the Koran by various Christian authors such as Drs. Sale, Rodwell, Palmer and Sir W. Muir', it contains little material to justify this claim. Verses numbered part-wise instead of Sura-wise. The language used in the translation is quite weak.
1912
Abu'l Fadl, Mirza, The Qur'an Translated into English from the Original Arabic (Allahabad, 1912). 3 edns. Dedicated to Sultan Jahan Begum, [Lady] ruler of Bhopal [India]. References to the Bible with a view to bringing out the superiority of the Qur'an. Refutation of the missionary views in a casual manner. Includes few notes.
1930
Pickthall, Muhammad Marmaduke William, The Meaning of the Glorious Qur'an (London, 1930). At least 27 edns. One of the most widely used translations done by an English man of letters who accepted Islam. Faithfully represents the sense of the original. His use of the Biblical English, however, tends to be a stumbling block for an average reader. Too brief notes on the circumstantial setting of the Suras and the Qur'anic allusions hence not very helpful for an uninitiated reader of the Qur'an.
1934-37
Ali Abdullah Yusuf, The Holy Qur'an: Translation and Commentary (Lahore, 1934-37). At least 35 edns. Another extremely popular translation. Written in style and couched in chaste English, it stands out above other translations as a highly readable rendering of the Qur'an into English. Copious notes are reflective of Yusuf Ali's vast learning. Nonetheless, some of his notes, particularly, on the Qur'anic eschatology and angelology smack of apologia and pseudo-rationalism. Sufistic bias is also quite marked in his notes. (For a detailed discussion on Yusuf Ali's unorthodox views, please see Kidwai, A.R., 'Abdullah Yusuf Ali's Views on the Qur'anic Eschatology', Muslim World League Journal 12 (5) February 1985, pp. 14-17).
1941-57
Daryabadi, Abdul Majid, The Holy Qur'an with English Translation and Commentary (Lahore, 1941-57). At least 4 edns. A faithful, though largely unacknowledged, translation.
BY MUSLIMS, 1960-86

1962
Jullundri, Ali Ahmad Khan, Translation of the Glorious Holy Qur'an with Commentary (Lahore, 1962). 3 edns. The translator boastfully entitles his work as 'After few centuries a True and Easy translation of the Glorious Holy Qur'an'. Marred by numerous mistakes of translation. Appended to the translation is a lengthy appendix dealing with diverse topics in a bizarre way, heaps abuses in the Saudi rulers and slights the role of Sunna. A simply unreadable work.
1964
Ali, S.V. Ahmad, The Holy Qur'an with English Translation and Commentary according to the version of the Holy Ahlul Bait. With special notes from Ayatullah Agha Haji Mirza Mahdi Pooya Yazdi (Karachi, 1964). 3 edns. Vindicates on the authority of the Qur'an itself such sectarian doctrines of Shias as Imamat, Muta'a (temporary marriage), the nomination of Ali as the Prophet's successor, Taqqiyya (hiding the faith), Tabarra (cursing), and mourning in the month of Muharram. Invectives used against both the Umayyad and Abbasid rulers. Strongly refutes the view that the Shias believe in the alteration (Tahreef) of the Qur'an.
1966
Tariq, Abdur Rahman and Gilani, Ziauddin, The Holy Qur'an: Rendered into English (Lahore, 1966). l edn. An explanatory translation supplemented by brief notes, without the Arabic text. Though this translation is in consonance with the orthodox Muslim viewpoint, its language and presentation leave a lot to be desired.
1969
Latif, Syed Abdul, al-Qur'an: Rendered into English (Hyderabad, 1969).1 edn. Apart from the translation of the Qur'an, Syed Abdul Latif also rendered Abul Kalam Azad's incomplete Urdu tafsir The Tarjuman al-Allah into English. Devoid of notes and the text, this translation does not advance much one's understanding of the Qur'an. At best, it represents the author's pious enthusiasm to undertake a noble enterprise.
1974
Ali, Hashim Amir, The Message of the Qur'an Presented in Perspective (Tokyo, 1974). 1 edn. In his zeal to bring out the thematic unity of the Qur'an, the translator has devised a new Sura order, re-arranging the Suras under the following five sections which he calls as the five 'books' of the Qur'an: Book I - The Portal, al-Fatihah; Book II - The Enlightenment, ar-Ruh, 18 earliest Meccan Suras; Book III - The Guidance, al-Huda, 36 early Meccan Suras; Book IV -The Book, al-Kitab, 36 late Meccan Suras; and Book V - The Balance, al-Mizan, 24 Medinite Suras. Going a step further, he has made up 600 sections of the Text, in place of the standard 558 sections, for, what he calls, perspective purposes. In making a mess of the Sura and ruku order of the Qur'an, it does not occur to Hashim Amir Ali that the thematic unity of the Qur'an has been quite remarkably demonstrated by some exegetes without disturbing the traditional arrangements of the Qur'an. The level of translation is, however, fairly good.
1977
al-Hilalai, Taquiuddin and Khan, Muhammad Muhsin, Explanatory English Translation of the Meaning of the Holy Qur'an (Chicago, 1977). 2 edns. It is, in fact, a summarized English version of Ibn Kathir's exegesis, supplemented by al-Tabri's, with comments from Sahih al-Bukhari. Both the translators have been introduced as Salafi (traditional followers of the way of the prophet). The translation is intended to 'present the meanings of the Qur'an which the early Muslims had known'.
1979
Ahmad, Muhammad Mofassir, The Koran: The First Tafsir in English (London, 1979). 1 edn. Explanatory notes have been interpolated into the translated text. It marks a serious deviation from the norms of the Qur'anic exegesis in that it would open the floodgate for presenting any material as the translation of the Text itself. Grossly misinterprets several Qur'anic terms. For example, al-Ghayb (the Unseen) is rendered as the 'consequence of one's action'.
1980
Muhammad Asad, The Message of The Qur'an (Gibraltar, 1980). l edn. Translated in chaste, idiomatic English by a convert from Judaism to Islam. However, it contains some serious departures from the orthodox viewpoint on a number of Qur'anic statements. Asad appears to be reluctant to accept the literal meaning of some Qur'anic verses. For example, he doubts the throwing of Ibrahim into fire, Jesus speaking in the cradle; refers to Khidr and Dhulqarnain as mythical figures and expresses unconventional views on abrogation (Naskh) theory. (For details please see Arfaque Malik's review in the Muslim World Book Review, Vol. 1, No. 1 (1980), pp. 5-7
1980
Zayid, Mahmud Y. (checked and revised) in collaboration with a committee of Muslim scholars, The Qur'an: An English Translation of the Meaning of the Qur'an (Beirut, 1980). Based mainly on a Jew, N.J. Daud's English translation of the Qur'an hence repeats the mistakes of mistranslation that mar Daud's translations. In the supplement on Muslim religious practices and law both the Sunni and Shia doctrines have been presented.
1981
Sarwar, Sheikh Muhammad, The Holy Qur'an: Arabic Text and English Translation (Elmhurst, 1981). l edn. Without any notes this explanatory translation paraphrases the contents of the Qur'an in a lucid style.
1982
Shakir, M.M., Holy Qur'an (New York 1982). An example of blatant plagiarism in that about 90% of this English translation has been verbatim copied from Muhammad Ali Lahori's English translation of the Qur'an. Though it does not contain any notes, the Shia doctrines have been indicated in the Subject index of the Qur'an with pointed reference to the Qur'anic verses in order to give the impression that such Shia doctrines as Imamat, Ali as the chosen one, martyrdom of Hussain, khums, Masoom (the infallible ones) and Vali occur in the Qur'an itself.
1984
Ali Ahmad, al-Qur'an: A Contemporary Translation (Karachi, 1984), 2 edns. Devoid of explanatory notes or background information about Suras, this translation rendered in fluent idiomatic English is vitiated by several instances of mistranslation. Contains unorthodox, apologetic and pseudo-rationalistic views on the hell, stoning of Abraha's army, the Tree, the Verses II:73, 248 and 282, III:49 and IV:01.
1985
Irving, T.B., The Qur'an: the First American Version (Vermont, 1985). 1 edn. Apart from the obnoxious title this translation is not al-together free from mistakes of translation and loose expressions, such as in al-Baqarah II:37 and 157. Assigns theme(s) to each Qur'anic ruku (section). Contains neither the Text nor explanatory notes. Uses American English expressions.
1986
Khatib, M.M., The bounteous Koran: A Translation of Meaning and Commentary (London, 1986). 1 edn. An authentic and faithful translation of the Qur'an in readable, fluent English. Free from irksome use of archaic Biblical English as in Pickthall, Yusuf Ali and Daryabadi. Contains a historically based 'Introduction' discussing Islam, the Qur'an and Sirah, and brief yet insightful notes on the circumstantial setting and the meaning of certain Qura'nic allusions and expressions. Suffers from a few inaccuracies in translation. For example al-Furqan XXV:16, 29, 46 and 62, al-Maidah V:67 and Maryam X1X:26 and 34, etc. (For details see A.R. Kidwai's review on it in Muslim World Book Review (Spring 1988), Vol. 8, No.3, pp. 11-13.

Taken from:
http://www.quran.org.uk/articles/ieb_1st_annotated.htm


I am currently downloading At-Tabari.
Really? From where?

The only tafsirs in english I know of are "Fee Dhilalil Qur'an" -Syed Qutb, Tafsir Ibn Kathir, "Tafheem Al-Qur'an" -Maududi, and the one mentioned by Noora_z3, "Tafsir Ishraq Al-Ma'ani" -Syed Iqbal Zaheer.

Of course, there is also the commentary provided in the Yusuf Ali, Khan-Hilai, Daryabadi, and M. Asad translations.

:w:

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-25-2005, 08:53 PM
:sl:
You may also find interesting the following website from understanding Islam, where they are putting together there own translation and commentary of the Qur'an:
http://understanding-islam.com/related/scategory.asp?catid=3

:w:

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-25-2005, 09:53 PM
:sl:
Here's another review:
http://www.islamic-paths.org/Home/English/Quran/Translation_Issues/Ultimate_Translation_Main.htm

I haven't read it yet, so I'm not sure how good it is.

Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Daryabadi and Khan-hilali can all be read parallel here:
http://www.parexcellence.co.za/islam/quraan.asp

:w:

Serene
05-26-2005, 09:05 PM
Asslamu Alikum wa Rahmatu Allah wa Barkatu,

Jazaka Allah khayran Bro. Ansar Al-'Adl. The articles and sites you sent are very useful. As for the Tabari tafsir, it is in Arabic. I do not know much about Tafsirs in English, that is why I was keen on learning abt the tafsir that sis Noora has suggested. I have got Zelal Al-Qur'an in Arabic. My supervisor suggested reading Tafir of Al-Alousi. I am afraid I cannot find enough information about grammatical aspects in the Holy Qur'an. I am still trying and I havenot given up yet. May Allah give us all strength to follow the way of Knowledge.

Thanks once more for all your help and support. May Allah reward you all in abundance

salam for now

Serene
05-31-2005, 10:04 AM
Asslamu Alikum,

Hope everyone is ok. It has been very quiet here for some time now. You think we should start a new thread on the passivization on Qur'an, the use of passive voice in the Holy Qur'an, that is.

Here is what I am trying to achieve at this stage: I am trying to build a taxnomy or rather make a list of the cases where passives are used on the Qur'an and what that fulfil.

In other words, we know that the use of passive in general serve certain goals, sucha as concentrating on the action rather than the doer, or maybe total ignorance of the doer, or if the doer is too obvious and there is no real need to mention that. These are among the most common roles use of passive fulfil. How about if we can contribute to this thread of thought through our Qur'anic reading. Coming across different forms of passives, we can state the reason it is used according to a certain tafsir or according to how we see it.

I am trying to see this thread alive once again, coz I really miss ur contributions and the insight it used to give me

Waiting for ur suggestions , for I am really going through a deadlock here and I need some of ur insights

Jazakum Allah khayran

Ansar Al-'Adl
05-31-2005, 06:44 PM
:sl:
If you can think of one example in the Qur'an of passive sentence, maybe we could help you come up with similar verses, insha'Allah.

:w:

Serene
05-31-2005, 09:36 PM
Asslamu Alikum,

Let's take a look at suras of Takweer, Infitar, Inshiqaq in the 30 juz' of Qur'an; we can easliy trace many verses with passive voice. These three suras depict the grave Day of Judgement when the "sun would be folded" and "the sky would be rended " and many other verses that draw a most lively picture filled with awe and tangible horror. So the question would be: why use passives in the depiction of the Day of Judgement? The most likely answer would naturally be that there is no more important incident than that day, that is why the actions are highlighted through frequent use of passives. This can be checked at your copies of Mushaf.

Now, I guess this is one example. Many other incidents throughout Qur'an have been used-- I cannot think of any now. I may come up with more later, so do you if you like. At this point, I need to reach an overall list of almost the exact explanantions for each incident of passives.

I know this might be tiresome for you, but you can do it while going through your daily reading if you come across any verse that includes passives. I will try to share more examples here inshaa Allah.

You think it is better to start a new thread so we could get more contributers? Do you think I am kinda exploiting ppl round here? Sorry for that

Better go now, thanks for all of you..God Bless
salam for now

Muhammad
06-02-2005, 06:35 PM
:sl:

What exactly do you mean by a passive sentence?

Uthman
06-02-2005, 06:46 PM
:sl:

The past tense? https://www.islamicboard.com/images/imported/2005/04/confused2hw-1.gif

:w:

أحمد
06-02-2005, 07:35 PM
:sl:

What exactly do you mean by a passive sentence?
:sl:

:shade: There are two main ways of making any statement; active and passive.

Example:

:D Active: He chopped down the tree.

:omg: Passive: The tree was chopped down.

:) The tree is the passive participle, and the person is the active participle.

:w:

mary
07-10-2005, 11:18 PM
Salam,
I was just browsing this thread and i wanted to ask in ur opinion which Quran has best English translation as i currently have a quran with translation but was looking for something which was an easier read as the english and arabic text is quite small to read. Any suggestions i would relly appreciate it .
Thank u................:P

Ansar Al-'Adl
07-10-2005, 11:27 PM
:sl:

In additon to what was said before, I would like to recommend Al-Qur'an : Guidance for Mankind translated by Muhammad Farooq-i-Azam Malik as the overall best translation. It is clear and has the most fluid english of all the translations and it takes a new approach by translating the meanings of the Qur'an rather than going by a more literal translation. It, however, includes no commentary.
https://www.islamicboard.com/images/imported/2005/07/islamicbookstorecom_1850_479268260-1.jpg
http://islamicbookstore.com/b6848.html
http://islamicbookstore.com/b5897.html
http://islamicbookstore.com/b8488.html

:w:

Preacher
07-13-2005, 10:51 AM
English translations of the Qur’an and the translators of the Qur’an.

:sl:

I have started this thread to discuss the history of English translation/s of the Noble Qur'an and the translators of the Qur'an, with their background, knowledge, scholarship (if any) and the limitations of the translations.

Please contribute only facts with complete references and quotes. I would also like to request learned Muslims to offer their opinions about Muslim translators of the Qur'an in the English language. Mind you that non-Muslim translators are nonentities and we will not discuss about them, besides making passing reference/s about them as and when needed.

Please refrain from posting your personal bias with phrases like following:

I think, in my opinon, I like this etc., unless this is supported with rock solid fact and evidence that has enabled you to draw your conclusions.

Also what is your take on excessive use of English translations of Qur'an by Muslims, mainly by copy and paste from Internet? Is it healthy and productive in the long run and how effective it is in the short run?

Let us start this discussion with objectivity and clear thinking. :)

:w:
Preacher

Preacher
07-13-2005, 07:09 PM
:sl:

I would begin by stating that the most perverted English translation is done by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, and sadly it is the most famous and used one by Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

Abdullah Yusuf Ali's first blunder is to assert that DhulQarnain is Alexander the (not) great. See Abdullah Yusuf Alie's commentary of Qur'an 18:86 quoted below:

1. This is the first of the three episodes here mentioned, his expedition to the west. "Reaching the setting of the sun" does not mean the extreme west, for there is no such thing. West and East are relative terms. It means a western expedition terminated by a "spring of murky water." This has puzzled Commentators, and they have understood this to mean the dark, tempestuous sea. If Dhu al Qarnayn is Alexander the Great, the reference is easily understood to be the Lychnitis (now Ochrida), west of Macedonia. It is fed entirely by underground springs in a limestone region, where the water is never very clear. (See Appendix VI at the end of the Surah).

2. He had great power and great opportunity. He got authority over a turbulent and unruly people. Was he going to be severe with them and chastise them, or was he going to seek peace at any price, i.e., to wink at violence and injustice so long as it did not affect his power? He chose the better course, as described in the next verse. To protect the weak and the innocent, he punished the guilty and the headstrong, but he remembered always that the true Punishment would come in the Hereafter-the true and final justice before the throne of Allah.

We all know the enemies of Islam, especially Christian missionaries have explioted this to attack Islam. How it can be true when we know that Alexander was a "Polytheist.

Abdullah Yusuf Ali's second blunder being a sufi is that he has perverted Qur'an 28:25-27 with distortion and drama.


Abdullah Yusuf Ali has offered his commentary on Glorious Qur’aan Ayaah 28:25-27 [See # 3354-3357] with his perverted mind, by giving a wrong and romantic commentary Abdullah Yusuf Ali said:

3354 (7th line till end of 3354) Perhaps the whole household, including the daughters, listened breathlessly to his tale. Perhaps their wonder and admiration were mingled with a certain amount of pity – perhaps with some more tender feeling in the case of the girl who had been to fetch him. Perhaps the enchantment, which Desdemona felt in Othello’s story, was working on her. In any case the stranger had won his place in their hearts. The old man, the head of the household, assured him of hospitality and safety under his roof. As one with a long experience of life he congratulated him on his escape. ‘Who would live among unjust people? It is as well you are free of them!’

3355 A little time passes. A guest after all cannot stay forever. They all felt that it would be good to have him with them permanently. The girl who had given her heart to him had spoken their unspoken thoughts. Why not employ him to tend the flocks? The father was old, and a young man was wanted to look after the flocks. And – there may be other possibilities.

3356 Strong and trusty: Moses had proved himself to be both, and these were the very qualities, which a woman most admires in the man she loves.

3357 A little time passed, and at length the father broached the subject of marriage. It was not for the fugitive to suggest a permanent tie, especially when, in the wealth of this world, the girl's family was superior, and they had an established position, while he was a mere wanderer. The father asked if he would marry one of the daughters and stay with them for at least eight years, or if he liked, ten years, but the longer term was at his option. If he brought no dower, his service for that period was more than sufficient in lieu of dower. The particular girl intended was no doubt tacitly settled long before, by the mutual attraction of the young hearts themselves. Moses was glad of the proposal, and accepted it. They ratified it in the most solemn manner, by appealing to Allah. The old man, knowing the worth of his son-in-law, solemnly assured him that in any event he would not take advantage of his position to be a hard taskmaster or to insist on anything inconsistent with Moses’ interests, should a new future open out to him. And a new and glorious future was awaiting him after his apprenticeship.

This commentary by Abdullah Yusuf Ali is full of very mean ideas about Shu’aib شعيب عليه السلام [Abdullah Yusuf Ali has referred him as “old man”] and his daughter who was to become the wife of Musa موسى عليه السلام. The reference to Desdemona in Othello further degrades the pure character and sensations of the honorable daughter of Shu’aib شعيب عليه السلام. Whose wisdom is praised by the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم at the most genius words that she used concerning the employment of Musa موسى عليه السلام. The romance that Abdullah Yusuf Ali has invented is derogatory to the innocent character of Musa موسى عليه السلام and the propriety of the daughter of Shu’aib شعيب عليه السلام. This dramatic presentation of the holy characters of the two great personalities undermines the very spirit of the Glorious Qur’aan. Abdullah Yusuf Ali has used the appellative of “old man” for Shu’aib شعيب عليه السلام, a prophet of Allaah; while unwisely saying that Musa موسى عليه السلام was inferior to the girl’s family. Another absurdity we find that according to Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Shu’aib شعيب عليه السلام did not propose a permanent tie. That is why Abdullah Yusuf Ali says, “the father broached the subject of marriage.” (and not the marriage in the defined sense). Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s remarks legalize the Muta (a timely marriage), which is prohibited in Islaam.

Abdullah Yusuf Ali was very much impressed by the white man (English society). He has at very many places distorted the meaning of the Glorious Qur’aan by dragging the Qur’aanic standard to the English norms as he did in the above commentary.


One can now measure the depth of ignorance of many Muslims and non-Muslims who, with their lull minds think that Qur'an is/was in English and take the word of man as the word of God without realizing it. The irony of their ignorance is that they set the premise of their argument entirely based on fallacious English translation.


:w:
Preacher

Ansar Al-'Adl
07-13-2005, 07:22 PM
:sl:
Threads merged.

Bittersteel
07-13-2005, 08:37 PM
I want to download a Quran translated in english even ahadith too so that I can get access to it without the net.

Serene
07-14-2005, 07:58 PM
Asslamu Alikum

Hope everyone is doing well and enjoying their vacations. As I can see that the two thread have been merged. Somehow, contributions are only restricted to solid rock facts and I wonder how can we call describing one great muslim scolar as perverted as solid rock facts? What kind of objectivity that allows whomsoever a researcher to call a late muslim translator as perverted? Excuse me, sir, but as you might know already, the transltor is most likely visible through his own translation. Mr. Yususf Ali was sure to be detected throughout his translation of the Holy Word of Allah. I am sure he tried his best for the glory of Islam. As all human beings, he can wrong but that gives no one no right whatsoever to diminish the greatness of his work. May Allah rest his soul and accept his good deed for the sake of Islam.

Please, I hope that all memebers, muslims and nonmuslims alike, abide by the rules of civility and common sense. May Allah forgive us all

Serene
07-14-2005, 08:05 PM
Asslamu Alikum,

To you, brother Abdul Aziz, and to all members, here' sone helpful site to dowload many translations of the Holy Qur'an, where you can have a simultaneous access to three translations at once in addition to the original Arabic text of the Holy Qur'an. May Allah teach us whatever that is useful for us and to benefit us from whatever that we have learnt.


http://www.divineislam.co.uk/DivineIslam/Software/QuranViewer2/

Preacher
07-14-2005, 08:12 PM
:sl:

Rather subjective ranting, we must explore what we say and whether it is true or not. Abdullah Yusuf Ali was no scholar of Islam. Abdullah Yusuf Ali was merely a translator of Qur’an like many other unqualified individuals.

However, if one thinks and s/he was a scholar of Islam and I am wrong for what I have written in my post earlier, prove me wrong?

I have not offered any subjective whining or raving; I have presented rock sold evidence quoting Abdullah Yusuf Ali, himself. We are not talking about a soccer game here if one is off or wrong. We are talking about our faith and our Deen. We cannot afford to be wrong in this regard.

:w:
Preacher

Bittersteel
07-14-2005, 09:45 PM
Preacher is the translation, not the commentary. by Yusuf Ali alright?

Ansar Al-'Adl
07-14-2005, 10:08 PM
:sl:
The translation is reasonable - it has some good points and some bad points, but no blatant errors that i'm aware of.

:w:

Serene
07-15-2005, 03:16 PM
Abdullah Yusuf Ali's second blunder being a sufi is that he has perverted Qur'an 28:25-27 with distortion and drama.


Quote:
Abdullah Yusuf Ali has offered his commentary on Glorious Qur’aan Ayaah 28:25-27 [See # 3354-3357] with his perverted mind, by giving a wrong and romantic commentary Abdullah Yusuf Ali said:

3354 (7th line till end of 3354) Perhaps the whole household, including the daughters, listened breathlessly to his tale. Perhaps their wonder and admiration were mingled with a certain amount of pity – perhaps with some more tender feeling in the case of the girl who had been to fetch him. Perhaps the enchantment, which Desdemona felt in Othello’s story, was working on her. In any case the stranger had won his place in their hearts. The old man, the head of the household, assured him of hospitality and safety under his roof. As one with a long experience of life he congratulated him on his escape. ‘Who would live among unjust people? It is as well you are free of them!’

It is quite unacceptable to draw smiltiude between a messenger of Allah and a mere dramatic persona. In one recent modernized version of Yusuf Ali's translation, this very unbecoming similarity is eleminated. However, I do beleive that, the late Yusuf Ali did that only to bring the western reader to something that they can relate to as Shakepearen drama


3355 A little time passes. A guest after all cannot stay forever. They all felt that it would be good to have him with them permanently. The girl who had given her heart to him had spoken their unspoken thoughts. Why not employ him to tend the flocks? The father was old, and a young man was wanted to look after the flocks. And – there may be other possibilities.

3356 Strong and trusty: Moses had proved himself to be both, and these were the very qualities, which a woman most admires in the man she loves.

3357 A little time passed, and at length the father broached the subject of marriage. It was not for the fugitive to suggest a permanent tie, especially when, in the wealth of this world, the girl's family was superior, and they had an established position, while he was a mere wanderer. The father asked if he would marry one of the daughters and stay with them for at least eight years, or if he liked, ten years, but the longer term was at his option. If he brought no dower, his service for that period was more than sufficient in lieu of dower. The particular girl intended was no doubt tacitly settled long before, by the mutual attraction of the young hearts themselves. Moses was glad of the proposal, and accepted it. They ratified it in the most solemn manner, by appealing to Allah. The old man, knowing the worth of his son-in-law, solemnly assured him that in any event he would not take advantage of his position to be a hard taskmaster or to insist on anything inconsistent with Moses’ interests, should a new future open out to him. And a new and glorious future was awaiting him after his apprenticeship.


As for the offer of a temeporary marriage, allow me to object, for there is nothing to suggest that. The reference is to the fugitive, that is prophet Musa, who would refrain from asking for an everlasting tie as he is being foreign to that land and knows not wht may become of him.

The eight year he was to spend, tending the flocks, was in return for the dower to be given to the father of the bride and that was commonly used.

Regarding the assumption of the girls' family being superior, this is only because prophet Musa was away from his homeland. So he was dfeprived of all that could give position and superiority. However, prophet Musa was praised for his strength and honesty.


This commentary by Abdullah Yusuf Ali is full of very mean ideas about Shu’aib شعيب عليه السلام [Abdullah Yusuf Ali has referred him as “old man”] and his daughter who was to become the wife of Musa موسى عليه السلام. The reference to Desdemona in Othello further degrades the pure character and sensations of the honorable daughter of Shu’aib شعيب عليه السلام. Whose wisdom is praised by the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم at the most genius words that she used concerning the employment of Musa موسى عليه السلام. The romance that Abdullah Yusuf Ali has invented is derogatory to the innocent character of Musa موسى عليه السلام and the propriety of the daughter of Shu’aib شعيب عليه السلام. This dramatic presentation of the holy characters of the two great personalities undermines the very spirit of the Glorious Qur’aan. Abdullah Yusuf Ali has used the appellative of “old man” for Shu’aib شعيب عليه السلام, a prophet of Allaah; while unwisely saying that Musa موسى عليه السلام was inferior to the girl’s family. Another absurdity we find that according to Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Shu’aib شعيب عليه السلام did not propose a permanent tie. That is why Abdullah Yusuf Ali says, “the father broached the subject of marriage.” (and not the marriage in the defined sense). Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s remarks legalize the Muta (a timely marriage), which is prohibited in Islaam.


Once again there was no such thing as sugggesting a timely marriage, it was merely in return for the dower as was the case at that time.

Abdullah Yusuf Ali was very much impressed by the white man (English society). He has at very many places distorted the meaning of the Glorious Qur’aan by dragging the Qur’aanic standard to the English norms as he did in the above commentary.


One can now measure the depth of ignorance of many Muslims and non-Muslims who, with their lull minds think that Qur'an is/was in English and take the word of man as the word of God without realizing it. The irony of their ignorance is that they set the premise of their argument entirely based on fallacious English translation.

Serene
07-15-2005, 03:19 PM
[


... Desdemona [and] Othello’s story,

[]It is quite unacceptable to draw smiltiude between a messenger of Allah and a mere dramatic persona. In one recent modernized version of Yusuf Ali's translation, this very unbecoming similarity is eleminated. However, I do beleive that, the late Yusuf Ali did that only to bring the western reader to something that they can relate to as Shakepearen drama[/COLOR]

. It was not for the fugitive to suggest a permanent tie, especially when, in the wealth of this world, the girl's family was superior,

[]As for the offer of a temeporary marriage, allow me to object, for there is nothing to suggest that. The reference is to the fugitive, that is prophet Musa, who would refrain from asking for an everlasting tie as he is being foreign to that land and knows not wht may become of him.

The eight year he was to spend, tending the flocks, was in return for the dower to be given to the father of the bride and that was commonly used.

Regarding the assumption of the girls' family being superior, this is only because prophet Musa was away from his homeland. So he was dfeprived of all that could give position and superiority. However, prophet Musa was praised for his strength and honestyCOLOR]

[COLOR=Black]B] Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s remarks legalize the Muta (a timely marriage), which is prohibited in Islaam. [/B]

]Once again there was no such thing as sugggesting a timely marriage, it was merely in return for the dower as was the case at that time

Ansar Al-'Adl
07-15-2005, 07:19 PM
:sl: Serene,
Can you please edit your posts to make it clear which are your words and what you are trying to say?

:w:

Serene
07-16-2005, 07:48 AM
Asslamu Alikum,

Sorry for the muddled appearance for my last posts. Both are one. I edited the second one only. What is written in black is quotes used from a previous post by preacher. These quotes are meant to be Yusuf ALi's own words. The parts written in dark red are mine. That was written in a n attempt to show a different viewpoint regarding what has been said.

Ummu Amatullah
07-17-2005, 07:13 PM
Asalama alaikum sister
I use a version of the quran that's a summarized version of At-Tabari',Al-Qurtubi,and Ibn Kathir with comments from Sahih Al-Bukhari it's summarized by Dr. Muhammed Muhsin Khan

Bittersteel
07-30-2005, 10:15 PM
Is Abdul Majid Daryabadi's translation one of the best and most accurate?

Ansar Al-'Adl
07-31-2005, 03:13 AM
Asalama alaikum sister
I use a version of the quran that's a summarized version of At-Tabari',Al-Qurtubi,and Ibn Kathir with comments from Sahih Al-Bukhari it's summarized by Dr. Muhammed Muhsin Khan


Is Abdul Majid Daryabadi's translation one of the best and most accurate?

Both are excellent.

:w:

Bittersteel
08-05-2005, 05:27 PM
I found a translation in nearby bookstore by Mahfuzur Rahman an Arabic professor in Dhaka University.I am not sure whether its reliable or not.

Uthman
08-05-2005, 05:45 PM
:sl:

Check out this (http://soundvision.com/Info/quran/english.asp) article entitled Translating the Untranslatable: A Survey of English Translations of the Quran.

:w:

Serene
08-08-2005, 08:02 PM
Asslamu Alikum,

Where can we check the article bro Osman? will u kindly provide us with the URL of that article.

As for the Mahfouz Rahamn translation, how abt if you brother Abdul Aziz go through it and tell us what you think?

Uthman
08-08-2005, 08:04 PM
:sl:


Where can we check the article bro Osman? will u kindly provide us with the URL of that article.

Click on the word this in my post above sister. :)

Kent Nielsen
01-29-2006, 05:40 PM
Hi and peace to everyone. :) I would like some advice please. Would anyone recommend a good English language version/translation of the Qur'an please? I know it isn't a "real" Qur'an unless it is in Arabic because the true Qur'an was given in Arabic. However, I don't know Arabic and "version" was the best term I could come up with to avoid confusion. I DO have several in my library but I'm alwways looking to find the best translation possible. Thank you for your help.:thankyou:

Uthman
01-29-2006, 05:47 PM
Greetings Kent,

The topic has been discussed already here (http://www.islamicboard.com/education-issues/2194-translation-quran-do-you-prefer.html?). :) You may also find the following posts helpful (from another board)

Post 1 (http://forums.understanding-islam.org/community/showpost.php?p=38206&postcount=10)

Post 2 (http://forums.understanding-islam.org/community/showpost.php?p=38371&postcount=20)

Stick around. I look forward to seeing more of your posts. :)

Kent Nielsen
01-29-2006, 06:32 PM
Hello Osman and peace to you. Thank you for posting the links. I just finished reading the discussion that were on this board, when that particular topic was opened by Serene. I'm going to look at the other links you posted Tahnk you again.

Uthman
01-29-2006, 07:03 PM
Hi Kent,

No problem :) I'm glad you found my post useful.

Kent Nielsen
01-29-2006, 08:01 PM
Hello back Osman I took a link at the other links you posted and was surprised at how many different "translations/versions" there are. I THINK I might have one of the ones that was mentioned called the Gloroius Qur'an:With English Translation and Commentary It's NOT the Pickthal one. This was was done by a group of Turkish scholars a few years ago. A couple of friends I have on the Why Islam forum board in the USA mailed it to me. For the record I have translations by Dawood, Ahmed Ali, Rodwell, Fakhry, and The King Fahd Complex For The Printing Of The Holy Qur'an. I haven't read Ahmed Ali or Rodwell yet. Anyway Thank you agin for your help. Peace to you.

Kent Nielsen
01-29-2006, 08:04 PM
That should be "I took a look at the the other links you posted" My brain just went off-line. :embarrass

umrah2004
01-29-2006, 08:09 PM
Assalamualykum,
The Quran I have , is in 3 parts per page, it has an arabic section, a translation sectiona and a transliteration column, it is called 'The Noble Quran by Dr Muhammad Taqi-Ud-Din Al-Hilali - Darussalam
Hope this hellps you Inshallah

Muhammad
01-29-2006, 08:18 PM
:sl:

Threads merged.

:w:

Halima
01-29-2006, 08:49 PM
Peace brother Kent if you take a look at this link

http://www.islamicboard.com/168506-post2.html

inhshallah it has what you are looking for.

best regards.

Uthman
01-29-2006, 09:40 PM
Greetings and peace Kent,


I took a look at the other links you posted and was surprised at how many different "translations/versions" there are. I THINK I might have one of the ones that was mentioned called the Gloroius Qur'an:With English Translation and Commentary It's NOT the Pickthal one. This was was done by a group of Turkish scholars a few years ago. A couple of friends I have on the Why Islam forum board in the USA mailed it to me. For the record I have translations by Dawood, Ahmed Ali, Rodwell, Fakhry, and The King Fahd Complex For The Printing Of The Holy Qur'an. I haven't read Ahmed Ali or Rodwell yet. Anyway Thank you agin for your help. Peace to you.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm no expert. However, from what I've read about it, THE GLORIOUS QUR'AN: TEXT, TRANSLATION, AND COMMENTARY seems an excellent choice. I haven't seen Ahmed Ali's translation, but from his lectures I can tell he has a good knowledge of arabic. The King Fahd Complex also I hear is good.

Since I don't own many translations of the Qur'an, I tend to stick with what I know. At the moment, Yusuf Ali seems to be amongst the most popular, although I would avoid his commentary since it contains many errors.

A good article about translations can be found here (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015764&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE). :)

Regards...

Abu Omar
02-01-2006, 08:53 PM
:sl:

The best Tafsir is probably Tafsir ibn Kathir (or is there any better one?) and the best translation is in my opinion the one of Muhsin Khan and al-Hilali. Their translation and explanation is based on Tafsir ibn Kathir and Sahih al-Bukhaari. The only negative thing about their translation is that they mix in commentary among the verses, so it's hard for a new reader to differentiate. So I don't think I would recommend their translation to a first-time reader.

Please remember that a translation (as some brothers pointed out) can't reproduce the Quranic rythm and flow. This is nothing that we should expect. The only purpose which a translation is for is to convey the meaning of the Quran in a non-Arabic language. Sadly this is much needed today since the general knowledge of Arabic in the Ummah today is extremly low. In fact, many countries where they speak Arabic they speak a dialect mixed with the native language.

TabTabiun
02-01-2006, 10:54 PM
The one i have is this one: http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b4999.html
i didnt buy it from here, my brotehr give to me as a gift, he bought it from an online islamic bookstore, i dont know the website, but this is the one.
Its very good alhumdulilah, i find the translation to be very understandable and effective at the same time, also, its a summarized versoin of at-tabari, al-qurtubi and ibn kathir, with comments from Sahih Al-Bukhari, so it has like hadtihs corresponding with the ayats under the pages, its very nice. Its by Dr Muhammad Muhsin Khan and Dr. Muhammad Taqi-Ud-Din Al Hilali, Ph. D. (Berlin)
As-Salaam Walikum- I ALSO Have this Quran. Mashallah it is soooo well Written Inshallah; Mashallah.... This translation of the Quran is the BEST!!! It explains in Detail when certain Ayats and Surahs were Revealed.
As-Salaam Walikum
*P.S. Ameen To ALL THE DUAS!!!

Kent Nielsen
02-01-2006, 11:02 PM
Peace brother Kent if you take a look at this link

http://www.islamicboard.com/168506-post2.html

inhshallah it has what you are looking for.

best regards. Hi and thank you It looks like I'm going to be busy.:hmm: I started reading the Rodwell translation today. I think I goofed but I'll see if I can finish it.

- Qatada -
02-01-2006, 11:08 PM
Hey Kent.


Like you've said earlier, the Qur'an in arabic is the real thing - and the translations can never replace it. The reason why its so special in arabic is due to the eloquence, its depth, the special poetic devices that are used throughout it, and much more..


So if you want to hear it, you may want to download a few recitations just to hear what your reading, in its original form.

Qur'an Recitations Download. (http://quran.jalisi.com)


Hope you enjoy it. :)


Peace.

TabTabiun
02-01-2006, 11:11 PM
As-Salaam Walikum- In the Original Text (I.E. The Arabic) there is NO Mistakes, but in the translations of The Quran there are SOME Mistakes.
As-Salaam Walikum

Kent Nielsen
02-01-2006, 11:12 PM
Thank you :thankyou: I added it to my favourites list.

Kent Nielsen
02-01-2006, 11:14 PM
I meant the recitations I'm a little slow. :statisfie

- Qatada -
02-01-2006, 11:14 PM
lol its okay, i understood the first time :p

vpb
02-03-2006, 03:29 AM
Selam Alaikum everyone,

I wanted to tell that do not buy the Qur'an that is translated in English by John Medows Rodwell because as far as I have seen it has a rude translation and in Surah 47 (Mohammed) I don't know how this guy came up with 40 verses when Surah 47 has 38 vereses, probably this happens in other Surah-s, because I have not read the whole translation.


Peace.

Shadow
02-03-2006, 03:33 AM
jazak Allah khair for the warning

Ataraxis
02-03-2006, 05:05 AM
jazak Allah khair for the warning
Ditto...& really sad..:heated: .

Halima
02-04-2006, 10:52 PM
Assalaam Alaykum

Thread moved

Please post in the correct section

3. Please post in the appropriate forum.

samina1
02-04-2006, 10:54 PM
o thanx for da warning

ma salam

sameedck
02-05-2006, 05:12 AM
in my opinion both yousuf ali and pikthal are good. But will vary from people to people

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