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sonz
05-31-2006, 08:44 PM
Question :
Would u please tell me the proper way for women to sit, when we pray, also can you please differenciate the sitting position, from men.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah. The way in which women pray is the same as the way in which men pray in every part of the prayer, prostration, sitting, and so on. This is based on the following evidence:

1 – The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Pray as you have seen me praying.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari. This is addressed to both men and woman.
Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Everything that we have said above about the way in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prayed applies equally to men and women. There is nothing narrated in the Sunnah which implies that women are exempted from any of that. Rather the general meaning of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “Pray as you have seen me praying,” include women too.
Sifat Salaat al-Nabi , p. 189

2 – The general meaning of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Women are the twin halves of men.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 204; al-Tirmidhi, 105, from the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah. Also narrated by al-Daarimi, 764, from the hadeeth of Anas.

Al-‘Ajlooni said: Ibn Qattaan said: The isnaad from ‘Aa’ishah is da’eef (weak), but the isnaad from Anas is saheeh (sound).
Kashf al-Khafa’ , 1/248

Al-Khattaabi said: What we understand from this is: If something is said in the masculine, it is addressed to women too, except in cases where there is evidence to indicate that it applies only to women.

Some of the scholars said that a woman should not sit as a man sits (in prayer), and they quoted two da’eef (weak) hadeeths as evidence for that.

Al-Bayhaqi said:

Two da’eef hadeeth were narrated concerning that, the like of which cannot be taken as evidence.
The first is the hadeeth of ‘Ata’ ibn al-‘Ajlaan from Abu Nadrah al-‘Abdi from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri, the companion of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), that he used to command the men to spread out their arms in their prostration and he used to tell the women to keep their arms close to their sides in their prostration. He used to tell the men to spread their left foot along the ground (and sit on it) and place the right foot upright during the tashahhud and he used to tell the women to sit, kneeling, on their heels.” Then al-Bayyhaqi said: This is a munkar hadeeth.

The other is the hadeeth of Abu Mutee’ al-Hakam ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Balkhi from ‘Umar ibn Dharr from Mujaahid from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar who said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When a woman sits during the prayer she should place one thigh against the other and when she prostrates she should press her stomach against her thighs, compressing herself in the most concealing manner, for Allaah looks at her and says: ‘O My angels, I call you to bear witness that I have forgiven her.’” Sunan al-Bayhaqi al-Kubra, 2/222.

This hadeeth is da’eef, because it was narrated by Abu Mutee’ al-Balkhi.

Ibn Hajar said:
Ibn Mu’een said: He is nothing. On one occasion he said: He is da’eef. Al-Bukhaari said: He is da’eef. Al-Nasaa’i said: He is da’eef. Lisaan al-Mizaan, 2/334.

Ibn ‘Adiyy said: It is clear that Abu Mutee’ is da’eef in his ahaadeeth and everything that he narrated, and for most of his narrations there are no corroborating reports.
Al-Kaamil fi Du’afa’ al-Rijaal, 2/214

A third hadeeth was narrated from Yazeed ibn Abi Habeeb, saying that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) passed by two women who were praying. He said: “When you prostrate, press some of your flesh to the ground, for women are not like men in that.”

This was narrated by Abu Dawood in al-Maraaseel (p. 118) and by al-Bayhaqi (2/223).

This hadeeth is mursal, which is a category of da’eef (weak).
In al-Musannaf (1/242), Ibn Abi Shaybah narrated some reports from some of the salaf which suggest that there is a difference in the way women and men sit (in prayer), but the only evidence that counts is the words of Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Then he narrated from some of the salaf that the way in which men and women pray is the same.

Al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Umm al-Darda’ used to sit in prayer as a man sits and she was a scholarly woman.

Al-Haafiz stated in Fath al-Baari that Abu’l-Darda’ had two wives, both of whom were called Umm al-Darda’. The older one was a Sahaabiyyah and the younger one was a Taabi’iyyah. He suggested that the one who was referred to here by al-Bukhaari was the younger one.
See also the answer to question no. 38162.
And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...browse&QR=9276

masalama
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Umm Yoosuf
06-01-2006, 01:00 PM
Assalaamu Alaikum

Jazakallahu Khayr for the article its a really good read and i advice everyone to read it Insha Allah.
Reply

Mawaddah
06-01-2006, 02:07 PM
Sis Al-Mu'minah I agree with you!! so many women have the misconception that a womans prayer is different from a mans, and they refuse to listen to any daleel!! Astaghfirullah.......I love the way the article shows the Dha'eef hadeeth which is used as a hujjah by some people. I'll be passing this along INsha'allah. Jazakumullah khair.
Reply

S_87
06-01-2006, 02:29 PM
:sl:

jazakAllah khair bro :thumbs_up
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Dhulqarnaeen
06-02-2006, 03:20 AM
:sl:
Masha Allah, a nice post bro, barokallahu feek. Yes, theres a lot of missconception about this, especially for women. And its become somekinda traditional teaching in here that the way womens prayer is different from men. Rasulullah said:"Pray as you have seen me praying.”(HR. Bukhari). Yes this hadith too all muslims, men and women. If you know Rasulullah shalallahu alaihi wasallam sujud with his hands like a wings then women MUST do like what he did too according to the hadith. There are some differences the women made in their salah (which are these are have no example from Nabi and his companions radhiallahu anhum. Such as:
1. They do takbir and raise their forehands close to their chest, Rasulullah did it and his forehands wide out to the side of his body and he araise his fingers on his shoulder or about beside his ears.
2. They join both of their legs together, and theres no space between them while standing. And its wrong. Cause when they do salah jamaah, then their feets should touch the person's feet beside them, and their shoulder also. This is the perfect shaf in salah, see kitab bulughul maram by Ibnu Hajar al Asqolaniy.
3. They dont make their hands like a wings in sujud, and Rasulullah make his hands like a wings. Wide spread to the both side of the body, and Rasulullah used to make a wide space between his head and his legs in sujud, untill in hadith said the goats baby (what you call the goat baby? :rollseyes geee my english masha Allah) can walk under his body between his head and his legs. So there is a wide space between them.
These are some mistakes that women usually do, and so many more mistakes in salah that muslims often do in salah that against sunnah. But I think its too long to explain in here, and its best rujuu' to the book of syaikh Albani rahimahullah "sifatus salah Nabi" for the explanations. :brother: :
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amirah_87
06-02-2006, 02:53 PM
Ma'shaAllah!!!....jazaakallaahu kahayran akhee!!
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-03-2007, 02:47 PM
assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu


:) doesnt this kind of negate the views of the madhabs thus showing only one side to the story?
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-03-2007, 02:55 PM
:salamext:

Akhee this is a genuine question, and since you're hanafi I was hoping you might know. Is the opinion of the hanafi madhhab regarding women's prayer Imam Abu Hanifa's opinion? Or one of his students, or his students' students?

If you want, you can show the evidences for the opinion you believe to be correct.:)
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-03-2007, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by Umm 'Abdullah
:salamext:

Akhee this is a genuine question, and since you're hanafi I was hoping you might know. Is the opinion of the hanafi madhhab regarding women's prayer Imam Abu Hanifa's opinion? Or one of his students, or his students' students?
la adree, if one accepts madhabs then it should be commonly understood that the scholars of the madhaahibs derive rulings from imam abu hanifa right and his methodology right? :) Also ukhtee even if it was imam abu hanifa's students they were so knowledgable, i mean one of them actually debated with abu hanifa (abu yusuf) for 2 months and actually encouraged him to drop the "quran is created" aqeedah. subhanAllah. I think these students are great enough to take opinions from.



If you want, you can show the evidences for the opinion you believe to be correct.:)
i dont have any :D! when i get home im sure i can dig some up for you inshaAllah.



ukhtee do you think the students of the four imams distorted their views thus making all the followers of the madhaahib to be astray? because most fataawa i see always have ONE DEFINITIVE answer, i mean why cant they say "according to this imaam, and according to that one", why is it THIS IS THE WAY?


im really sorry for any offense caused but i dont understand why the difference of opinion isnt accepted here :(. everyone is prone to mistakes, so no-one is 100% correct.




i know i been apologising a lot recently but


sorry if i offended anyone :hiding:
Reply

Umar001
05-03-2007, 03:13 PM
I think difference of opinion is accepted in matters.

For example, noone here will debate over whether after the ruku one has to put his hands on his chest or by his sides. Though I think its by his sides ;) lol.
Reply

------
05-04-2007, 12:25 PM
:salamext:

Personally I think Guys and Girls pray in various different ways.

Plus, even if Imaam Hanifa, Imaam Malik, Imaam Shafi'ee, etc. have their different opinions, those opinions are derived from the Qur'aan and Sunnah, so i don't think any argument can be based upon the difference of four Madhabs?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-04-2007, 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4
:salamext:

Personally I think Guys and Girls pray in various different ways.

Plus, even if Imaam Hanifa, Imaam Malik, Imaam Shafi'ee, etc. have their different opinions, those opinions are derived from the Qur'aan and Sunnah, so i don't think any argument can be based upon the difference of four Madhabs?
if you mean the four madhabs have the best way to derive rulings sis and have the most correct set of fataawa from past mujtahids then i am in complete agreement mashaAllah.

if i am mistaken please correct

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-04-2007, 01:07 PM
ukhtee do you think the students of the four imams distorted their views thus making all the followers of the madhaahib to be astray? because most fataawa i see always have ONE DEFINITIVE answer, i mean why cant they say "according to this imaam, and according to that one", why is it THIS IS THE WAY?
:salamext:
SubhanAllah! That's not what I meant at all. I was just curious. Because from what I understand, not all the rulings of the madhhabs are from the Imams, but some are from later jurists of that madhhab. So it may not have been Imam Abu Haneefah's opinion that the woman's prayer is different.

Shaykh Salih al-Munajjid is a mufti, he is making ijtihaad in this issue and he doesn't need to refer to other opinions if he feels they are incorrect.:) However we do allow people to post different opinions in fiqh here, we just don't allow on-going debates. You haven't offended me at all brother, and I hope you forgive me if I offend you.
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islamirama
05-04-2007, 01:25 PM
Good post, just one question.

Now women do pray as men do, but with slight variation. Men stand with legs shoulder apart while women stand with feet together. And there's other slight differneces as well, like women place hands on upper chest and men close to the abodomen.

Any thoughts on that?
Reply

FatimaAsSideqah
05-04-2007, 01:26 PM
:sl:

While starting the 'Salah', women should not raise their hands upto their ears, instead, they should raise them upto their shoulders, and that too, from within the scarf of or other outer warp being used. Hands should not be taken out of the cover.

When women fold their hands on the chest, they should simply place the palm of their right hand on the back of the left forehand. They should not fold their hands on the navel like men.

In 'Ruku', women are not required to straighten their backs fully like men. Women should bend less as compared to men

In the position of 'Ruku' , men should open up their fingers while placing them on the knees, but women are required that they place their hands on the knees with fingers close together, that is, there be no space between fingers.

Women should not stand on legs absolutely straight, instead, they should stand with knees slightly bent forward.

In 'Ruku', men are required to keep their arms stretched, away from the sides. But women should stand with their arms close to their sides.

Women should stand with both feet close together. Specially, both their knees should just about be joined together. Let there be no separating distance between legs

While doing 'Sajdah', the method prescribed for men is that should not lower their chest until such time that their method is not for women. They can, right form the start, lower their chest and go for 'Sajdah'

Women should do their 'Salah' in a manner that the stomach-wall comes to rest against the thighs and the arms stay close to the sides. In addition to that, woman do not have to position their feet upright, instead, they should spread them on the floor sliding them out towards the right.

Men are prohibited to place their elbows on the floor while making 'Salah'. But, women should place the whole arm, including the elbows, on the floor.

Men are required that they be careful about keeping their fingers open when bending for 'Ruku', and keeping them close together when in 'Sajdaj', and then leave them as they are during the rest of the 'Salah' when they make no efforts either to close or open them, But, it is required of women, under all conditions, that they keep fingers close together, that is leave no space between them. This is required all along in 'Ruku', in 'Sajdah' between two 'Sajdahs' and in the 'Qa'dahs'.



:w:

Fi Amani Allah
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-04-2007, 01:28 PM
assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah

forgive me for misinterpretting you ukhtee, it was a grave wrong on my part. its just when you asked if it was from imam abu hanifa or his students it seemed to me that your saying if his students derived the rulings it wouldnt have the same authority. Of course the students took into consideration abu hanifa rahmatullahi alayh's views.

again im sorry for misinterpretting sis.
Reply

FatimaAsSideqah
05-04-2007, 01:35 PM
:sl:

And also I have found this video..it shows how the way of Muslims' prayer (Salah)..

http://www.thirteen.org/edonline/acc...ideo_406m.html

:w:

Fi Amani Allah
Reply

Ayesha Rana
05-04-2007, 01:46 PM
Oh sis uve told us all how u think women should pray but u havent given any evidence to back up ur statements:(
i was reading bukharis hadith on Salaah yesterday and i read many things that contradict what u have posted...
And bro IbnAbdulHakim dont get me wrong cos i respect all the 4 Imams and their different views but we must see the evidence behind whatever they say because I read a book in which Imam Abu Hanifa stated "this is my view and if anyone finds a more Authentic Hadith against it then my opinion is void and i go by that hadith" or something on those lines and alson that he said we were not to follow anything he did without understanding his reasons and the evidence behind it.
The four Imams respected each other so we should do the same and there should be no disunity cos at the end of the day we are all muslims and are all striving to please Allah not tell each other that they are wrong and we are right.
Hazrat Abu hurairah (RAA) relates that the Holy Prophet (SAW) said:
A person who aquires knowledge, which is being sought for thesake of Allah, with the intention to attain some worldly gains, such a person will not get even the fragrance of Paradise on the Day of Judgement.

(Abu Daud quoted with sound chains)
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Ayesha Rana
05-04-2007, 01:49 PM
:uuh:? u guys editted ur posts:? lol
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-04-2007, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by Ayesha Rana
Oh sis uve told us all how u think women should pray but u havent given any evidence to back up ur statements:(
i was reading bukharis hadith on Salaah yesterday and i read many things that contradict what u have posted...
And bro IbnAbdulHakim dont get me wrong cos i respect all the 4 Imams and their different views but we must see the evidence behind whatever they say because I read a book in which Imam Abu Hanifa stated "this is my view and if anyone finds a more Authentic Hadith against it then my opinion is void and i go by that hadith" or something on those lines and alson that he said we were not to follow anything he did without understanding his reasons and the evidence behind it.
The four Imams respected each other so we should do the same and there should be no disunity cos at the end of the day we are all muslims and are all striving to please Allah not tell each other that they are wrong and we are right.
Hazrat Abu hurairah (RAA) relates that the Holy Prophet (SAW) said:
A person who aquires knowledge, which is being sought for thesake of Allah, with the intention to attain some worldly gains, such a person will not get even the fragrance of Paradise on the Day of Judgement.

(Abu Daud quoted with sound chains)
BISMILLAHIR RAHMANIR RAHEEM

Dr. Zakir Naik wrote:

5. All Four Imam said follow the Qur’an and Sunnah.

All the four great Imams said that if any of their Fatwas or teachings contradict Allah’s word, i.e. the Qur’an, or the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh) i.e. authentic Hadith, then that particulars Fatwa of theirs should be rejected, and the Sunnah of the Prophet should be followed.

To give you an example in this context – Imam shafi said that when a women touches a man who is in a state of wudhu, the wudhu of the man breaks. However, this ruling of Imam Shafi contradicts the authentic saying of the Prophet.

Narrated Aisha
The Prophet (may peace be upon him) kissed one of his wives and went out for saying prayer. He did not perform ablution. (Sunan Abu Dawood Vol. 1 Chapter No. 70 Hadith No. 179)

Thus this particular teaching of Imam Shafi contradicts the authentic saying of the Prophet. So I reject this specific ruling of Imam Shafi who himself said , “ If I say something, then compare it to the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His messenger and if it agrees to them, then accept it and that which goes against them, then reject it and throw my saying against the wall” – This is a saying of ash-Shafi’ee-rahimaullah. See Al-Majmoo’ of an-Nawawee (1/63).

Thus by rejecting this particular teaching of Imam Shafi which contradicts the authentic Hadith, I am practically a better follower of Imam Shafi than those who call themselves ‘Shafi’.
The response to this is; This is the opinion of Ibn 'Umar and some other Sahabah. However, when the Sahabah disagree in a matter, their statements are not a proof unless proof is brought from the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (s). As we stated before, Ibn 'Abbas and the reports from 'Aa'ishah contradict the opinion of Ibn 'Umar and those with their opinion. Thus, the opinion of Ibn Umar is not accepted unless supported with proof from the mouth of the beloved Messenger Muhammad (s). This topic itself is a lengthy topic in which one can not lightly accuse Imaam Shafi’ee (Rahimahullah) of going against a Hadeeth.

Furthermore, everyone learning Ahadeeth and extracting rulings from them in the light of Qur’aan is unreal and somewhat impossible. Not many if not all have the ability to do so. Therefore, to say one can follow a different ruling if they find a Hadeeth which contradicts it, is absurd for a common person.

Bearing in mind, does a common person have enough knowledge to know that there is no other stronger Hadeeth that this ruling? Does the layman have enough knowledge to understand why Imam Shafi’ee uses that Hadeeth as Hujjah and Imam Abu Hanifah uses this?


http://www.muftisays.com/viewarticle...icle=zntaqleed
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-04-2007, 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by Ayesha Rana
:uuh:? u guys editted ur posts:? lol
the sister made an innocent mistake :)
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MinAhlilHadeeth
05-04-2007, 02:06 PM
:salamext:

Obviously if any of us here read ahadith on their own, we wouldn't extract rulings from them, inshaAllah. We leave that to the 'ullema.

May I ask akhee, who wrote that? I see you have put it in italics. Is that because this is a quote? Clarify for me inshaAllah.:)

And Imam Ash-Shafi'ee is a man, like any other man. The quote says:

As we stated before, Ibn 'Abbas and the reports from 'Aa'ishah contradict the opinion of Ibn 'Umar and those with their opinion. Thus, the opinion of Ibn Umar is not accepted unless supported with proof from the mouth of the beloved Messenger Muhammad (s).
Then isn't the case even more so for those lesser than the companions, such as the tabi'een and the tabi' tabi'een, and those of the later generations?

Bearing in mind, does a common person have enough knowledge to know that there is no other stronger Hadeeth that this ruling? Does the layman have enough knowledge to understand why Imam Shafi’ee uses that Hadeeth as Hujjah and Imam Abu Hanifah uses this?
I agree. So inshaAllah let the layperson follow the scholar he feels is most correct in this issue.:)
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-04-2007, 02:08 PM
assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi

yes let the person follow who they trust agreed Alhamdulillah.

i just wanted sis ayesha rana to not take the sayings of the imaams out of context :)
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siFilam
05-05-2007, 08:57 AM
In The Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful

:salamext:


Originally Posted by Al Madani
:sl:

Jazakallah Khayr, but the majority opinion of the scholars, amongst who are those of the calibre of An-Nawawi, Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Qayyim, is that the layman ('aami) has no Madhab. He asks any trustworthy mufti and makes Taqlid of him, thus it is said that the madhab of the layman is the madhab of his mufti. A person selects a Madhab for himself when he begins studying Fiqh.

http://www.islamicboard.com/477932-post15.html

y do we make such a big deal about Taqleed. If you are allowed to make indirect Taqlid of a Madhab through your Mufti then y r we making so much fuss about it to the point of creating more disunity within the Ummah.
I will not argue against what the great scholars of the past (may Allah have mercy on them) as those mentioned above, have said regarding this matter since my knowledge and status with Allah, Az wa Jal, compared to theirs is less than the size of an ant. May Allah forgive me. Ameen.
But Taqleed is not haram. http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=16

brother Madani, plz forgive me if I offended you in anyway. and correct me as I am still learning.

Anyways here is the evidence from Hanafi scholars regarding the differences in Salah.

"Q.) I know that during Sajda, the women are supposed to have their fore arms including the elbow flat on the ground, according to the Hanafis. Could you provide some hadith supporting this view and explain how this came about. Could you also offer an explanation of how the admonition that keeping elbows on the ground is like imitating a dog is pertaining to men. Jazakullah Khair for your time. [Sanzid Rabby]

A.) Woman have been told to contract during the prostration. It is related from Ali, Radi-Allahu anhu, that when a woman prostrates, she should contract and join her thighs together (Musannaf ibn Abi Shayba, Musannaf Abd al-Razzaq). Ibn 'Abbas, Radi-Allahu anhu, was asked about the prayer of a woman. He said, "She should contract and come together" (Musannaf ibn Abi Shayba). It is related from Hasan Basri (may Allah have mercy on him) that a woman should contract in prostration" (Musannaf ibn Abi Shayba). Likewise, Ibrahim Nakh'ay said, "When a woman prostrates she should join her stomach to her thighs and not raise her buttocks and she should not separate [her limbs] as men do. Imam Abu Dawud relates in his Marasil from Yazid ibn Habib that the Messenger of Allah passed by two woman who were praying. He said to them, "When you pray join part of your body to the ground, for women are not like men in this regard. Imam Shafi'i writes in Al-Umm "A man and woman in regards to remembrance and salat are the same, except that I instruct that they be more concealing than men in ruku' and prostration by joining their limbs together. A similar opinion has been related from Imam Ahmad, and such is also the Hanafi opinion.

As far as the following hadith is concerned in which the Messenger of Allah Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam said, "Be reposeful in prostration and do not rest your forearms on the ground as a dog does," (Bukhari, Muslim), this prohibition does not extend to women since they have been instructed to contract in prostration, which includes placing the arms on the ground. This is further supported by a version of this narration in Sahih Muslim, which states that "the Messenger of Allah Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam prohibited that a man spread his forearms like a beast" -hence, excluding women (see Radd al-muhtar 1:432).

And Allah knows best.
http://www.albalagh.net/qa/0083.shtml"

Chapter 4 – Proofs from Prophetic Hadiths
Imam Bayhaqi has mentioned a principle which is the basis of the differences found in the salah of males and females.
He says:
"The separating factor between the laws of salah of males and females is that of concealment . A woman is commanded to do all those actions which are more concealing for her. " (as-Sunan al-Kubra alil-Bayhaqi: vol. 2 p 222)
RAISING THE HANDS
Hafidh Nur ud-Din Haythami states:
Wa'il ibn Hujr states that Rasulullah said to him, "O Ibn Hujr, when you perform salah, raise your hands till your ears while a woman should raise her hands till her chest . "
(Majma' uz-Zawaa'id: vol. 2 p 103, and I'laa us-Sunan: vol. 2 p 156)
Imam Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates:
"Abd Rabbih Ibn Zaytun said that he saw Umm ud-Dardaa raising her hands parallel to her shoulders when beginning salah. "
(al-Musannaf li-Ibn Abi Shaybah: vol. 1 p 239)
Ibn Abi Shaybah has also narrated:
"`Ataa was asked how a woman should raise her hands in salah. He replied that she should raise them till her breast " (Ibid)
Based at Makkah, Ataa [the great Follower (tabi`i) and imam] used to issue this fatwa.
Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates:
"Hammad ibn Salamah al-Basri used to say that a woman should raise her hands parallel to her breast when beginning salah. "
(Ibid)
Hammad was based at Kufa and he used to issue this fatwa.
The narration of Ibn Jurayj has been mentioned as follows:
Ibn Jurayj said, "I asked Ataa whether a woman should gesture with her hands like a male when making takbir. Ataa replied that she should not raise her hands like a male. Then he practically indicated with his hands how it should be done by lowering his hands and drawing them very close to his body. Then he said, "In the raising of the hands, a woman is unlike a man . And if she leaves that, there is no harm. ""
The Muslim Ummah continued this practice over the centuries. Imam Zuhri used to issue the same fatwa in Madinah.
PLACING THE HANDS
Allamah Abdul-Hayy Luckhnawi writes:
"As for women, the jurists are unanimous that it is sunnah for them to place their hands on their bosoms. "
(as-Si'aayah: vol. 2 p 152)
There is ijmaa' on this mas'alah.
SAJDAH
Imam Abu Dawud has narrated the following hadith in his Maraaseel:
(Arabic text)
Translation:
"Yazid ibn Abi Habib states that Rasulullah passed by two women who were performing their salah. He said to them, "When you prostrate, then make the parts of your body touch the ground because a woman is unlike a man in these aspects. " (Maraaseel Abi Dawud p 118; and its like in as-Sunan al-Kubra alil- Bayhaqi: vol. 2 p 223)
Imam Bayhaqi narrates the following hadith:
Abdullah Ibn Umar reports that Rasulullah said, "When a woman sits during salah, she should place her one thigh over the other and when she prostrates, she must attach the stomach to her thighs so that is more concealing for her. Indeed, Allah looks at her and tells the angels, "O My angels! Bear witness hat I have forgiven her. ""
(as-Sunan al-Kubra alil-Bayhaqi: vol. 2 p 223)
Imam Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates the following statement of Ali:
"It is reported that Ali said: "When a woman performs salah, she must practise ihtifaaz and keep her thighs close together. ""
(al-Musannaf li-Ibn Abi Shaybah: vol. 1 p 270, and it has been taken many ways, Abdur-Razzaq has taken it from Isra'il from Abu Is'haq from Harith from Ali and Ibn Abi Shaybah took it from Abul-Ahwas from Abu Is'haq and Bayhaqi took it from Abul-Ahwas, with the mentioned sanad)
Imam Abdur-Razzaq has quoted the following hadith in his Musannaf:
Ali says, "When a woman prostrates, she must practise ihtifaz and keep her thighs close to her stomach. "
(al-Musannaf li-Abdir-Razzaq: vol. 3 p 138)
"Ihtifaaz": to lean on one side and rest on the posterior.
(See Lugaat al-Hadith: vol. 1 p 98)
The following narration has been quoted by Bayhaqi:
"Ali said: " When a woman performs sajdah she must keep her thighs close together. ""
(as-Sunan al-Kubra alil-Bayhaqi: vol. 2 p 222)
The following narration appears in Kanz ul-Ummal:
"Ibn Umar states that when a woman prostrates, she must let her stomach touch her thighs in order to make herself completely concealed. "
(Kanz ul-Ummal: vol. 4 p 117)
Imam Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates:
"Ibrahim says that when a woman prostrates she should join her thighs to her stomach without raising her posterior and without stretching her limbs out like a male. "
(al-Musannaf li-Ibn Abi Shaybah: vol. 1 p 270)
The following words have been narrated by Ibrahim Nakha'i:
"Ibrahim said that when a woman prostrates she must draw her thighs inwards and place her stomach on them. " (Ibid)
Mujaahid:
"Muhaahid used to dislike that a man attach his stomach to his thighs as a woman does. "
(Ibid)
Hasan al-Basri:
"Hishaam reports from Hasan who says that woman should draw herself closely together in sajdah. "
(Ibid)
Imam Abdur-Razzaq narrates:
Ibrahim says, "A woman used to be commanded to place her arm and her stomach on her thigh when she goes into sajdah and not to spread her limbs out as a male does so that her buttocks are not raised. "
(al-Musannaf li-Abdir-Razzaq: vol. 3 p 138)
Allamah Muhammad Taahir al-Gujaraati narrates:
"When a lady performs salah, she must contract herself when she sits down and when she goes into sajdah and she must not spread her limbs out. "
(Majma' Bihar l-Anwaar: vol. 1 p 521)
Based on these narrations, the Fuqahaa have issued the following ruling:
"A woman should contract herself in sajdah and join her stomach to her thighs because this is more concealing for her. "
(al-Hidaayah: vol. 1 p 53)
THE SITTING POSITION
It is mentioned in the Musnad of Imam Abu Hanifah rahimahullah:
"Abdullah ibn Umar was asked how women performed their salah during the era of Rasulullah. He replied that initially they performed tarabbu'. Then they were ordered to themselves close together ad lean onto one side by resting on their left buttocks and completely contracting themselves. "
(Jaami' ul-Masaaneed: vol. 1 p 400)
Taraabu' is to sit cross legged. This narration indicates that initially the women sat in the position of tarabbu' but this command was later abrogated and they were ordered to draw themselves close together and lean onto one side by resting on their left buttocks and completely contracting themselves.
Sheikh Abu’l-Wafaa Afghaani writes:
"This is the most authentic narration of this chapter i.e. the sitting position of women . It is for this reason that Imam Abu Hanifah has made it the basis of his madh'hab. "
(Ta'leeqash-Sheikh Abul-Wafaa Afghaani ala Kitab il-Aathaar lil-Imam Muhammad ash-Shaybaani: vol. 1 p 208)
Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates:
When Ibn Abbas was asked about the salaah of a woman, he replied, "She must draw herself close together and lean onto one side by resting on her left buttock. "
(al-Musannaf li-Ibn Abi Shaybah: vol. 1 p270)
in another narration of Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah (vol . 1 p270), one finds the following words: (Arabic text)
Translation: Ibrahim said: "A woman should sit in salah as a man does. "
This quotation indicates permissibility. However, Naasir ud-Din al-Albaani has interpolated the words of this narration thus:
"A woman should so as a man does in salah. "
(Sifatu Salatin-Nabiy p 207)
This interpolation has clearly changed the meaning of the words and is a misleading act.
The following narration is also quoted by Ibn Abi Shaybah:
Khalid ibn Lajlaaj said that women were commanded with tarabbu' when they sat in salah and they should not sit like men on their buttocks. That is in order that nothing happens. "
(al-Musannaf li-Ibn Abi Shaybah: vol. 1 p 270)
The Fuqahaa took these narrations into consideration and delivered
the following ruling:
"A woman should sit on her left buttock and position her legs out on her right hand side because that is more concealing for her. "
(al-Hidaayah: vol. 1 p 55)
The above narrations indicate that Ibrahim Nakha'i used to issue the fatwa in Kufain accordance with this practise, while in Madinah Mujhaahiddid likewise as did Hasan Basri in Basrah.
These ahaadith and aathaar clearly indicate that the salah of females differs from that of males
Chapter 5 – What the Fuqaha Say
The Hanafi Madh-hab
Allaamah Muhammad Amin Ibn Abidin as-Shami rahimahullah:
"A woman should not raise her hands till her shoulders. She should not take her hands out of her sleeves. She should place one palm over the other on her breast . She should bend only slightly in ruku'. She will not spread her fingers out in ruku' but rather keep them close together and place her palms on her knees without clasping them. She should bend her knees slightly. She should contract herself in ruku' and sajdah. She should place her arms flat on the ground. She should sit with her legs out and resting on her posterior in tashahhud. In tashahud she should keep her fingers close together. If any mistake occurs in salah, she should clap her hands without uttering anything. She cannot make imamah of a male. It is makruh to have a female only congregation. The female imam will stand in their midst. It is makruh for her to attend the congregation. In a mixed congregation the females will stand at the rear. Jumu'ah is not obligatory for her, but if she attends it, she will be absolved of responsibility. Neither is Eid compulsory on her nor the takbir of tashriq. It is not mustahab for her to perform Fajr when it brightens up. In the loud salahs she will not raise her voice. "
(Radd al-Mukhtaar: vol. 1 p 504; see al-Bahr ar-Raa'iq: vol. 1 320)
He says in another place:
"A woman should bend slightly in ruku; without spreading her fingers out completely. However, she must contract herself and place her palms on her knees and bend them slightly . She must not spread out her arms as this is more concealing for her. "
(Ibid p 494)
Mulla Ali Qaari rahimahullah:
"A woman will raise her hands till her shoulder (when performing takbir tahrimah). "
(Fath bab al-`Inayah bi-sharh an-niqayah: vol. 1 p 239, see p 242, 262 and 265; and al-Fataawaa al-Aalamkiriyyah: vol. 1 p 73
Allaamah Badr ud-Din al-Ayni:
"According to Umm ud-Dardaam Ataa, Zuhri and Hammaad and others, a woman should raise her hands till her breasts. "
(al-Binayah fi sharh al-Hidaayah: vol. 2 p 187)
Muhammad ibn Muqaatil narrates the same verdict from the Hanafi jurists. (Ibid)
Burhanud-Din al-Marghinaani rahimahullah, the author of al-Hidaayah states that this is the correct and accepted version.
(al-Hidaayah: vol. 1 p 50)
It is stated in the Fataawaa Aalamgiriyyah:
"As for a female she must bend slightly in ruku' without spreading her fingers out. She must keep them together on her knees by merely placing the palms. She must bend her knees slightly and not spread her arms out.
A female should not spread out in ruku' and sajdah while she will sit on her legs. In sajdah she will make her stomach rest on her thighs .
A woman will sit on her left buttock and position her legs out to the right side. "
(al-Fataawaa al-Alamkiriyyah: vol. 1 p 75)
Imam Abu Ja'far at-Tahaawi rahimahullah:
"As for a woman, our scholars (Hanafi) state that she should sit in a manner that is most concealing. "
(Mukhtasar ikhtilaaf al-ulamaa': vol. 1 p212)
Sheikh Muhammad Zakariyya al-Kaandhlawi rahimahullah:
"It is unconditionally preferable according to us (Hanafi jurists) for a woman to sit on her buttocks with her legs positioned out to the right hand side. "
(Awjaz al-Masaalik: vol. 1 p 258)
Allaamah Abd ul-Hayy al-Lukhnawi rahimahullah:
"A woman differs from a man in many of the actions of salah…"(as-Si'aayah: vol.2 p 205)
He then goes on to list the differences as mentioned by the other jurists.
And Allah knows best.
Madrasah Arabiyyah Islamiyah (Aazadville)

wasalam
-SI-
Reply

Musalmaan
05-06-2007, 10:07 AM
Originally Posted by sonz

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Pray as you have seen me praying.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari.



Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This is addressed to both men and woman.

Shaykh al-Albaani's statement "This is addressed to both men and woman." was just a claim without mentioning any proof that it was said to both men and women.

There are many proofs (posted by sister sifilam) which proofs from all the generation of salaf-e-sualiheen) the difference were recorded, Fuqahaa karaam as well as muhaditheen approved those differences and mentioned in their musnad like musnad Imam Abu Hanifa rahimhulla.

Uptil now, and till Qiyamah they wont be able to bring a single proof from marfoo hadith that prophet instructed both men and women to pray similarly, especially the sajdah (for ther're so many clear proofs of the distinct position of men and women in sajdah).

thats why Taqleed of the salaf via madhab is really important, all this issues arises due to praising the self opinion that is made by the people who do not even qualify for it.
its the fitnah of end time as the hadith recorded in Bukhari.

:w:
Reply

...
05-06-2007, 05:39 PM
Please remain on topic inshaallah

This thread is not talking about whether or not we should follow particular madhhabs...

Uptil now, and till Qiyamah they wont be able to bring a single proof from marfoo hadith that prophet instructed both men and women to pray similarly, especially the sajdah (for ther're so many clear proofs of the distinct position of men and women in sajdah).
Care to provide some hadith stating that women and men should pray differently?
Reply

Musalmaan
05-07-2007, 09:11 AM
Originally Posted by Rose_Ice
Please remain on topic inshaallah

This thread is not talking about whether or not we should follow particular madhhabs...




Care to provide some hadith stating that women and men should pray differently?

I think you didn't care to read sister sifilam's post in this thread,
anyway for the sake of reminding and clarity i'll just list down the proofs mentioning the difference of men and women in sajdah only(the best part of salah). all the four madhabib agrees to it (mean all the aima- mujtahideen Imam Abu Hanifa r.a, Imam Maalik r.a, Imam Shafi'i r.a and Imam Hanbal rahimahulla approves it).


Yazid bin Abi Habib reports that the Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhi Wassallam) passed by two women who were praying salah. He said, 'When you prostrate, let part of your body cling to the earth, for women are unlike men in this regard'.

(Abu Dawood in his al Maraseel pl8 (Muassasah al Risalah edition), and Baihaqi 3201)

Sayyiduna Ibn Umar (RA) narrates that the Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhi Wassallam) said, 'When a woman sits in salah she should place one thigh over the other, and when she prostrates she should press her stomach to her thighs in a manner that is the most concealing for her. Indeed Allah looks at her saying, "Oh my angels! I make you witness that I have forgiven her." (Baihaqi 3199)


The first hadith is a mursal narration. All the narrators in it are reliable. Mursal narrations are accepted by the Hanafi Jurists.

The Second hadith is reliable due to the fact that it is being support by the above hadith and by many other narrations and statements of Sahaba.

Verdicts and practice of the Sahabah ( رضئ الله عنهم )

Sayyiduna Ali (رضئ الله عنه ) says, 'When a woman prostrates she should do ihtifaz and press her thighs together.', and in Abdul Razzaq's narration 'press her thighs against her stomach.' (Abdul Razzaq 5072 and Ibn Abi Shaibah 2777. Muhaddith Dhafar Ahmad Uthmani 3/32 has declared it hasan.)

Sayyiduna Ibn Abbas ( رضئ الله عنه ) was asked about the prayer of a woman. He replied, 'She should pull herself close together and do ihtifaz.’ (Ibn Abi Shaibah 2778.)


Verdicts of the Tabi'un and other ulama.

Ibn Jurayj reports, 'I asked Ataa: "Should a woman motion with her hands at the time of takbeer as a man does?" he replied, "She should not raise her hands with takbeer in the manner of men." Ataa then demonstrated (the way in which she should.) He placed his hands very low and then pulled them towards him. He then said, "The posture of a woman in salah is not that of a man." (Abdul Razzaq 5066 and Ibn Abi Shaibah 2474.)

Ataa also says, 'A woman should pull herself together when she bows down into ruk'u: she should bring up her arms to her stomach and pull herself together as much as possible. When she prostrates she should bring up her arms close to her and press her bosom and stomach against her thighs: she should pull herself together as much as possible.(Abdul Razzaq 5069.)

Hasan al Basri says, 'A woman should pull herself close together in sujud.' (Ibn Abi Shaibah 2781.)


One certain author has argued that all the descriptions of the Prophet's ( صلى الله عايه وسالم ) prayer are equally applicable to both men and women and there is nothing in the sunnah that excludes women from any of them. Insha Allah the contents of this chapter will answer that claim. The author then goes on to say that this is the view of Ibrahim al Nakhai who said, 'A woman's actions in the prayer are the same as a man's.' - transmitted by Ibn Abi Shaibah (1/75/2), with a saheeh sanad from him.

This is not what Ibrahim al Nakhai said at all nor is it his view. His narration transmitted by Ibn Abi Shaibah actually reads, 'A woman will sit in salah just as a man does.'(Ibn Abi Shaibah 1/242, no 2788.)This somehow has been misquoted as 'A woman's actions in the prayer are the same as a man's.'!

In fact, Ibrahim al Nakhai's other narrations quite clearly contradict the above report. His view about the prayer of a woman as reported by Ibn Abi Shaibah and others is as follows:

Ibrahim al Nakhai says, 'When a woman prostrates she should press her stomach against her thighs. She should not raise her posterior nor should she allow for any space or distance between the limbs of her body as a man does.'(Abdul Razzaq 5071 and Ibn Abi Shaibah 2782.)

He also says, 'When a woman prostrates she should bring her thighs together and press her abdomen to them.'(Ibn Abi Shaibah 2779.)


To Conclude (Point of Understanding)


All the above quite clearly demonstrates that the prayer of a woman is different in some aspects from that of a man, and that this distinction was first made by none other than the Prophet ( صلى الله عايه وسالم ), and then maintained by the prominent Sahabah and Tabi'un. Furthermore, as can be seen in their works, there is almost universal agreement amongst the scholars of all schools of fiqh on this issue.


Imam Baihaqi says,

'All of the laws of salah in which a woman differs from a man are based on the principle of satr (concealment). This means that the woman is instructed to do all that which is more concealing for her. The following chapters of hadeeth explain this meaning in detail.' (Baihaqi 2/314.)


Ibn Qudamah al Maqdisi al Hanbali quotes Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal in his al Mughni as saying, 'I consider sadl 56S to be better for a woman.' He also qoutes the narration of
Sayyiduna Ali ( رضئ الله عنه ) who says, 'When a woman prays salah she should do ihtifaz and press her thighs together.'(Ibn Qudamah in al Mughni 2/135.)

Imam Ahmad was asked about how a woman should prostrate and sit for tashahhud. He replied, 'She should do whatever is more concealing for her.' He added, 'She should do tarabb'u in tashahhud and draw her legs to one side (sadl).'(Masaail of Imam Ahmad narrated by his son Abdullah 373.)
Reply

AmarFaisal
05-07-2007, 09:34 AM
Assalamoalaikum ,

I had two instances of praying when I was corrected. First in Kuwait, second in Pakistan. We living in Middle east know that most women here pray like men so someone corrected me the way I should do my sajdah with my knees like men do while they pray. Another in Pakistan saw me praying like this an corrected me n told me that I should keep my hands closed down and next to my body.

Both time it was an elderly person whom u can't even think abt replying back. I felt so bad. What to follow!
Then once I read somewhere, that when u pray u should concentrate on the dept of Prayers (Khuzoo and Khushoo?) and as long as ur doing one ruko, two sajdas, two salams etc, u shouldn't bother urself into what to do how, just concentrate on ur prayers. However, there are times when I read abt strict rules of doing ruko n sajdas in certain ways. For eg. doing sajda, our head should touch the floor before our nose, our fingers should be together and hands apart etc(I might not be exactly right in quoting that but U might have read such instructions before somewhere). So sometimes while praying I get distracted by first this, then this, then this, and forget the esessence of prayers.
Reply

siFilam
05-07-2007, 10:09 AM
In The Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful
:salamext:

Originally Posted by AmarFaisal
Assalamoalaikum ,
Both time it was an elderly person whom u can't even think abt replying back. I felt so bad. What to follow!
Then once I read somewhere, that when u pray u should concentrate on the dept of Prayers (Khuzoo and Khushoo?) and as long as ur doing one ruko, two sajdas, two salams etc, u shouldn't bother urself into what to do how, just concentrate on ur prayers. However, there are times when I read abt strict rules of doing ruko n sajdas in certain ways. For eg. doing sajda, our head should touch the floor before our nose, our fingers should be together and hands apart etc(I might not be exactly right in quoting that but U might have read such instructions before somewhere). So sometimes while praying I get distracted by first this, then this, then this, and forget the esessence of prayers.
Sister, Qiyam, Ruku, Sujood are among the Faraaid of Salah. the four Imams vary on issues of Sunnah, Mustahab, Makrooh etc and their opinions are not baseless. It is important you observe these properly along with Khushoo. I find that one way to increase my Khushoo is through proper observance of Sunnah and other ettiquetes of Salah. this way you stand before Allah with the thought that "I've stand before You, O Allah, following the best among Your creation". Can you think of a better way to stand before Allah?
May Allah make us among the best of the servants and grant us Khushoo in our Salah. Ameen.
wasalam
-SI-
Reply

AmarFaisal
05-07-2007, 10:27 AM
^^ Assalamoalaikum,

Yes that's a good way of observing Khushoo in Salat and I remmember my Teacher who taught me the Quran another way of observing Khushoo, he'd say while u pray u think abt Akhirah, the day death comes onto u, when u go into sajdah think abt ur soul leaving ur body from ur legs. When u stand upright think abt ur soul leaving ur body from ur chest. This has worked very strongly for me coz it makes u pray even more intensely (khushoo)
Reply

abs
05-07-2007, 10:48 AM
Originally Posted by sonz
Question :
Would u please tell me the proper way for women to sit, when we pray, also can you please differenciate the sitting position, from men.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah. The way in which women pray is the same as the way in which men pray in every part of the prayer, prostration, sitting, and so on. This is based on the following evidence:

1 – The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Pray as you have seen me praying.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari. This is addressed to both men and woman.
Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Everything that we have said above about the way in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prayed applies equally to men and women. There is nothing narrated in the Sunnah which implies that women are exempted from any of that. Rather the general meaning of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “Pray as you have seen me praying,” include women too.
Sifat Salaat al-Nabi , p. 189

2 – The general meaning of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Women are the twin halves of men.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 204; al-Tirmidhi, 105, from the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah. Also narrated by al-Daarimi, 764, from the hadeeth of Anas.

Al-‘Ajlooni said: Ibn Qattaan said: The isnaad from ‘Aa’ishah is da’eef (weak), but the isnaad from Anas is saheeh (sound).
Kashf al-Khafa’ , 1/248

Al-Khattaabi said: What we understand from this is: If something is said in the masculine, it is addressed to women too, except in cases where there is evidence to indicate that it applies only to women.

Some of the scholars said that a woman should not sit as a man sits (in prayer), and they quoted two da’eef (weak) hadeeths as evidence for that.

Al-Bayhaqi said:

Two da’eef hadeeth were narrated concerning that, the like of which cannot be taken as evidence.
The first is the hadeeth of ‘Ata’ ibn al-‘Ajlaan from Abu Nadrah al-‘Abdi from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri, the companion of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), that he used to command the men to spread out their arms in their prostration and he used to tell the women to keep their arms close to their sides in their prostration. He used to tell the men to spread their left foot along the ground (and sit on it) and place the right foot upright during the tashahhud and he used to tell the women to sit, kneeling, on their heels.” Then al-Bayyhaqi said: This is a munkar hadeeth.

The other is the hadeeth of Abu Mutee’ al-Hakam ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Balkhi from ‘Umar ibn Dharr from Mujaahid from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar who said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When a woman sits during the prayer she should place one thigh against the other and when she prostrates she should press her stomach against her thighs, compressing herself in the most concealing manner, for Allaah looks at her and says: ‘O My angels, I call you to bear witness that I have forgiven her.’” Sunan al-Bayhaqi al-Kubra, 2/222.

This hadeeth is da’eef, because it was narrated by Abu Mutee’ al-Balkhi.

Ibn Hajar said:
Ibn Mu’een said: He is nothing. On one occasion he said: He is da’eef. Al-Bukhaari said: He is da’eef. Al-Nasaa’i said: He is da’eef. Lisaan al-Mizaan, 2/334.

Ibn ‘Adiyy said: It is clear that Abu Mutee’ is da’eef in his ahaadeeth and everything that he narrated, and for most of his narrations there are no corroborating reports.
Al-Kaamil fi Du’afa’ al-Rijaal, 2/214

A third hadeeth was narrated from Yazeed ibn Abi Habeeb, saying that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) passed by two women who were praying. He said: “When you prostrate, press some of your flesh to the ground, for women are not like men in that.”

This was narrated by Abu Dawood in al-Maraaseel (p. 118) and by al-Bayhaqi (2/223).

This hadeeth is mursal, which is a category of da’eef (weak).
In al-Musannaf (1/242), Ibn Abi Shaybah narrated some reports from some of the salaf which suggest that there is a difference in the way women and men sit (in prayer), but the only evidence that counts is the words of Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Then he narrated from some of the salaf that the way in which men and women pray is the same.

Al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Umm al-Darda’ used to sit in prayer as a man sits and she was a scholarly woman.

Al-Haafiz stated in Fath al-Baari that Abu’l-Darda’ had two wives, both of whom were called Umm al-Darda’. The older one was a Sahaabiyyah and the younger one was a Taabi’iyyah. He suggested that the one who was referred to here by al-Bukhaari was the younger one.
See also the answer to question no. 38162.
And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...browse&QR=9276

masalama


very well said masha,allah
Reply

Musalmaan
05-08-2007, 10:29 AM
Originally Posted by Al-Mu'minah
:sl:

You follow no-one other than the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. You pray the way he prayed, eat the way he ate, sleep the way he slept and so on. We follow our Prophet as Allah ordered us. So if someone brings you an authentic hadiths then follow that.
I ask, if prophet Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said to do this way and we say no we'll do what u're doing, is that an obedience?
is that what comes under "wa ateer-ul-llaha wa atee-ur-rasool" (Obey Allah and obey Rasool)?

seriously sister, think over it, rather than closing/deleting our posts n threads.
Reply

Musalmaan
05-08-2007, 10:42 AM
I ask,

Is it "following sunnah" for women to call out adhan for prayers?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to attend funeral prayers?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to attend jumma prayers?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to lead men for salah?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to say iqamah?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to uncover his head?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to say loudly for correcting or deterring imam?

enlighten us plz or is it we telling women to leave sunnah?
Reply

skhalid
05-08-2007, 11:02 AM
When I was little...just learning how to pray and all that..I use to pray exactly the same way as my dad...infact the mosque I use to attend we use to pray girls and boys...ahem...boys at the front obviously! And the madrassah teacher pointed out that there are no no differences except that girls had to keep there legs together for certain parts of the prayer sequence.
Hope that helped!!!
Jazakallah
Reply

Musalmaan
05-09-2007, 10:50 AM
masha'Allah thats look really clean. appreciated. :D :thumbs_up
Reply

Dhulqarnaeen
05-10-2007, 09:54 AM
Originally Posted by Musalmaan
I ask,

Is it "following sunnah" for women to call out adhan for prayers?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to attend funeral prayers?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to attend jumma prayers?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to lead men for salah?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to say iqamah?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to uncover his head?

Is it "following sunnah" for women to say loudly for correcting or deterring imam?

enlighten us plz or is it we telling women to leave sunnah?

1. Its sunnah for women to pray at home. Best at home. and for men wajib in masjib for 5 times prayers.
2. I dont know the certain hukm about women attending jumah prayers, but many arabic countries have women in masjid for jumuah prayers. So maybe its ok cause If its haram, then ulama will remind them.
3. Women may not lead men in every occasion.
4. I dont know if women gathering together to salah jamaah, :rollseyes . Maybe someone can explain
5. Whosw head? His? You mean Imam? :D Its haram for women to uncover their head in front of men who not mahram
6. sunnah for women to remind imam is with flapping their hand.

Please do corection!
Reply

Dhulqarnaeen
05-10-2007, 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by skhalid
When I was little...just learning how to pray and all that..I use to pray exactly the same way as my dad...infact the mosque I use to attend we use to pray girls and boys...ahem...boys at the front obviously! And the madrassah teacher pointed out that there are no no differences except that girls had to keep there legs together for certain parts of the prayer sequence.
Hope that helped!!!
Jazakallah
Rasulullah said "pray as you see me pray". and theres no explanation that this hadith is just for men. Its for all muslim. So according to this hadith, theres no differents in salah between men and women. In eeeeevery moves :) . Someone who said theres differences, please state dalils or riwayah from sahabah about this. Cause if we talk about ibadah, then its need to dalil/ proves from quran and sunnah.
Reply

Musaafirah
05-10-2007, 10:19 AM
:sl:
This page shows the method I pray..
http://www.alinaam.org.za/library/scorrect18.htm
:w:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-10-2007, 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by Dhulqarnaeen
Rasulullah said "pray as you see me pray". and theres no explanation that this hadith is just for men.
my beloved and respected brother if this was true then how do we explain the following points:

In another narration, it is stated that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) passed by two women who were performing Salaat. He said: “When you make sajdah, attach your body to the ground. Indeed women are not like men in this matter.” (i.e. they differ in the posture of sajdah). (Maraasil of Imaam Abu Dawood (R.A))

Hadhrat Abdullah bin Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhu) reports that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: “When a woman sits in Salaat, she should place the thighs (of one leg) upon the other and when she makes sajdah, she should attach her belly to her thigh so that it is as concealing as possible. For indeed Allah Ta'ala looks at her saying: ‘O my angels I make you witness that I have indeed forgiven her’.” (Baihaqi Vol.2 Pg.223)

akhee theres so many things we miss out because we're always trying to be scholars.

bro :) please let us all go to the respected learned scholars of the madhaahib to learn what has been passed down through generations inshaAllah, we shall find true 'ilm inshaAllah.


may Allah forgive me for any error i have stated, jazakAllah to sis musaafir for the link
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
05-10-2007, 11:19 AM
:salamext:

Akhee, please give me the classifications of those ahadith that you have just quoted. As you know, we do not attribute da'eef or mawdoo' ahadith to the Prophet (SAW), as that would be lying against him. Rather we should say, it was reported, instead of 'The Prophet said..'. when it comes to weak or fabricated hadith.:)

:wasalamex
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-10-2007, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Al Muwahhidah
:salamext:

Akhee, please give me the classifications of those ahadith that you have just quoted. As you know, we do not attribute da'eef or mawdoo' ahadith to the Prophet (SAW), as that would be lying against him. Rather we should say, it was reported, instead of 'The Prophet said..'. when it comes to weak or fabricated hadith.:)

:wasalamex
assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah

i dedect that you have somehow deduced that these narrations are not worthy of being used because you have seen stronger sources from scholars, respected ukhtee i respect your opinion and decision.

i find that the 'ulama who have gone in-depth with fiqh and masaa'il have found it permissable if not commendable to use these ahaadith therefore i consider the hadith to be valid. InshaAllah that is also why i think that hadith is speaking only to men :)

also i do not know the classifications of the hadith, it was not given so allahu a'lam
Reply

...
05-10-2007, 11:38 AM
I found this on the net:

All that has been mentioned of the description of the Prophet\'s prayer (sallallaahu \'alaihi wa sallam) applies equally to men and women, for there is nothing in the Sunnah to necessitate the exception of women from any of these descriptions; in fact, the generality of his statement (sallallaahu \'alaihi wa sallam), \"Pray as you have seen me praying\", includes women.

This is the view of Ibraaheem an-Nakh\'i, who said, \"A woman\'s actions in the prayer are the same as a man\'s\" - transmitted by Ibn Abi Shaibah (1/75/2), with a saheeh sanad from him.

Also, Bukhaari reported in at-Taareekh as-Sagheer (p. 95) with a saheeh sanad from Umm ad-Dardaa\', \"that she used to sit in her prayer just as a man sits, and she was a woman of understanding.\"

The hadeeth about the indimaam (tucking up) of a woman in prostration, and that she is in that regard not like a man, is mursal and not authentic. Abu Daawood transmitted it in al-Maraaseel on the authority of Yazeed ibn Abi Habeeb.

As for what Imaam Ahmad has reported, as in his son \'Abdullaah\'s Masaa\'il, from Ibn \'Umar, that he used to instruct his wives to sit cross-legged in prayer, its sanad is not authentic, for it contains \'Abdullaah ibn \'Umar al-\'Amri, who is a da\'eef (weak) narrator.
Reply

Umm Yoosuf
05-10-2007, 11:38 AM
:sl:

I don't know about you brothers and sisters but I feel as though we are going around in circles.

One members thinks this and the other that, just argumentation after argumentation.

Can you blame me if I close the thread? Honestly now what is the point in this? If you're truly after the Haqq then you'd do extensive research and that research should lead one to the Quran and Sunnah and the way of the Salaaf.

If you are pleased/happy with what you found that then Khalas! I don’t think there is any point in arguing about it. However, if you want to seek knowledge and verification then ask away...but I am not up for argumentation for surely it is from Shaytan.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-10-2007, 11:41 AM
^ agreed ukhtee. may Allah help us guide us all, dont wanna go jahannam :(
Reply

...
05-10-2007, 11:41 AM
Yes your right i think this thread should be closed inshaallah its not really getting anywhere and is seemingly leading to arguments
Reply

Umm Yoosuf
05-10-2007, 11:43 AM
Are we in agreement that this thread has had its day and thus should be closed?

All praise is due to Allah.

Thread closed.

Please PM if you have any concerns :)
Reply

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