The Gospel Of Judas

[yasin]

Greetings all.

It's good to be back after a long absence.


Most of you may have heard of the recent findings of what is said to be the Gospel of Judas, selectively left out of the Bible by the men who (possibly probably maybe) edited the Bible for their own needs.


One can further his/her knowledge by visiting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas

I would like, discussion in to this Gospel.

[muslim_friend]

:sl:

Yes, i've read a major part of this gospel which can be found on the national geographic website. very interesting. the twist is that judas is actually ordered by jesus to betray him, whereas the other disciples called him a traitor.

[yasin]

It makes me believe stronger that the Bible today is extremely impure and heavily edited.

Purely my own beliefs however

[iLL_LeaT]

This is a very interesting subject. Jesus’ name is a source of a lot of money and power. If the image of who Jesus was changes, some believers may start to question there faith. And in turn, a lot of organizations, whose survival depends on the exploitation of Jesus’ name, may see there end.

This gospel, however, really shouldn’t shake anyone’s faith. It still shows Jesus as a great man. If it does shake one’s faith, then maybe they should have been Christian anyway.

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[yasin]

:?

This is a very interesting subject. Jesus’ name is a source of a lot of money and power. If the image of who Jesus was changes, some believers may start to question there faith. And in turn, a lot of organizations, whose survival depends on the exploitation of Jesus’ name, may see there end.

This gospel, however, really shouldn’t shake anyone’s faith. It still shows Jesus as a great man. If it does shake one’s faith, then maybe they should have been Christian anyway.

i'm sorry but i struggle to understand the point you are making

[iLL_LeaT]

1.This is a very interesting subject.
2.If this gospel shakes any Christians faith, them maybe they should have not been Christians anyway.

That is what I said.

[yasin]

Well that doesnt really tackle the issue.

Are you denying that the Gospel of Judas exists? Or is true? Or that it accidentally fell out of the original Bible along with others?

[Woodrow]

There are several other older Gospels that were removed at a later date the most notable is the Gospel of Barnabas. Which was retained for a long time. It is still in the Aramaic Bible.

It is lengthy. I believe Chapter 220 in it is of importance to us as Muslims.

"Chapter 220

Jesus replied, embracing his mother: 'Believe me, mother, for truly I say to you that I have not been dead at all; for God has reserved me till near the end of the world.' And having said this he prayed the four angels that they would manifest themselves, and give testimony how the matter had passed.

Thereupon the angels manifested themselves like four shining suns, insomuch that through fear every one again fell down as dead. Then Jesus gave four linen cloths to the angels that they might cover themselves, in order that they might be seen and heard to speak by his mother and her companions. And having lifted up each one, he comforted them, saying: 'These are the ministers of God: Gabriel, who announces God's secrets; Michael, who fights against God's enemies; Rafael, who receives the souls of them that die; and Uriel, who will call every one to the judgment of God at the last day. Then the four angels narrated to the Virgin how God had sent for Jesus, and had transformed Judas, that he might suffer the punishment to which he had sold another.

Then said he who writes: 'O Master, is it lawful for me to question you now, as it was lawful for me when you dwelt with us?' Jesus answered: 'Ask what you please, Barnabas, and I will answer you.' Then said he who writes: 'O Master, seeing that God is merciful, wherefore has he so tormented us, making us to believe that you were dead? and your mother has so wept for you that she has been near to death; and you, who are an holy one of God, on you has God suffered to fall the calumny that you were slain amongst robbers ;on the Mount Calvary?'

Jesus answered: 'Believe me, Barnabas, that every sin, however small it be, God punishes with great punishment, seeing that God is offended at sin. Wherefore, since my mother and my faithful disciples that were with me loved me a little with earthly love, the righteous God has willed to punish this love with the present grief, in order that it may not be punished in the flames of hell. And though I have been innocent in the world, since men have called me "God," and "Son of God," God, in order that I be not mocked of the demons on the day of judgment, has willed that I be mocked of men in this world by the death of Judas;, making all men to believe that I died upon the cross. And this mocking shall continue until the advent of Muhammad;, the Messenger ;of God, who, when he shall come, shall reveal this deception to those who believe in God's Law. Having thus spoken, Jesus said: 'You are just, O Lord our God, because to you only belongs honour and glory without end.'"

Here is a link to the entire Gospel of Barnabas:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/barnabas.htm

[iLL_LeaT]

Well that doesnt really tackle the issue.

Are you denying that the Gospel of Judas exists? Or is true? Or that it accidentally fell out of the original Bible along with others?

You are right, that does not tackle the issue of if it exists, is true, or “fell out of the original Bible” nor did I try to tackle it. I personally don’t see what the point is in attacking me.

However, if you must know, Judas’s gospel is most likely legitimate. As for it some how falling out of the bible, that is ridicules. The bible is a compilation of stories that supported what the people from the Nicaea Council of 325 A.D. believed to be true. So it could have not have fallen out because it was never in the original compilation.

Happy?

[yasin]

apologies if you felt i was attacking you.

Could you explain to me what Agnostic is? Sure i can Google it but i would prefer a personal reply if you have the time to do so.

Regards

[iLL_LeaT]

Agnostic is a better name for an atheist. Typically Agnostics see atheists as close-minded people who refuse to acknowledge there could be a god. Agnostics believe there very well may be a God, however don’t know 100% if there is or not, or know what religion is true, if any.

I personally have heard a lot of religions argued, every one of them seems possible. So it is very hard for me to say this one religion is right. And there being no god is also a grim possibility for me.

[yasin]

Thank you

the point i wanted to make was that it would be impossible to view the Bible as pure and also acknowledge that things have been edited out of it.

[iLL_LeaT]

You are right, the bible is not pure. I think even most Christians would say that is true. Even simple translations can change a meaning of a passage.

[muslim_friend]

Agnostic is a better name for an atheist. Typically Agnostics see atheists as close-minded people who refuse to acknowledge there could be a god. Agnostics believe there very well may be a God, however don’t know 100% if there is or not, or know what religion is true, if any.

I personally have heard a lot of religions argued, every one of them seems possible. So it is very hard for me to say this one religion is right. And there being no god is also a grim possibility for me.

I pray to Allah that He may guide you to Islam. Ameen!

[iLL_LeaT]

I pray to Allah that He may guide you to Islam. Ameen!

That is very nice. You could say Allah brought me to this wonderful forum. In turn, I may have a change of heart. However, I have looked at Islam very closely and decided it does nothing more for my soul then any other religion. I like this forum so much because I like everyone here. Everyone is very accepting. If I could say, “I know there is a God,” at this point I would probably turn to Islam.

I personally feel that there is most likely a God (a monotheistic God), but to have total submission, one has to KNOW Allah is the one. However, I also acknowledge if I feel something is true, I could be wrong. So… There is not mush I can do.

[Woodrow]

ILL_Leat,

Your honesty and candor are appreciated. I believe others besides myself feel the same. You are a refreshing friend and I am always pleased to read your posts. Only one person has the right to choose another persons religion and that is the person themself.

[iLL_LeaT]

Thank you Woodrow, that means a lot to me.

I too look forward to seeing your posts. You seem like a very humble man, one that has grown very wise and peaceful.

[Joe98]

Thank you
the point i wanted to make was that it would be impossible to view the Bible as pure ......

This is a constant Muslim critisizm.

The good news is that Christains agree with you! But it has no effect on their faith!

[muslim_friend]

That is very nice. You could say Allah brought me to this wonderful forum. In turn, I may have a change of heart. However, I have looked at Islam very closely and decided it does nothing more for my soul then any other religion. I like this forum so much because I like everyone here. Everyone is very accepting. If I could say, “I know there is a God,” at this point I would probably turn to Islam.

I personally feel that there is most likely a God (a monotheistic God), but to have total submission, one has to KNOW Allah is the one. However, I also acknowledge if I feel something is true, I could be wrong. So… There is not mush I can do.

Believe me, I have had the exact same feelings. faith can fluctuate like a light bulb. it can leave you desperate and crying to know truth.We have so many religions today, its difficult to know which is true and which is not. How i have wished that Allah would come down to this earth and show Himself to all people, so that the ones misguided are guided, and the ones who are guided become full of faith, i have wished for that so many times. But sadly that will not happen, because Allah has willed it. yet Allah is merciful, He has scattered the signs of His existence throughout the universe, so that men of understanding like you and me can ponder over them.. eclipses, rainbows, the golden ratio.. Since you are agnostic, you have proven yourself open minded, only you can put in the effort here. Take the steps to find out the truth and start now, before it's too late.

If Allah wills, you will have a change of heart. Anyone can turn muslim. I have read stories of the worst Islam haters turning muslim. With Allah's help anything can happen. I sincerely hope that Allah shows you the way, and satisfies your heart.