Something that's been bothering me RE: Qur'an Desecration

[butterflylady]

Hi, I am pretty well aquainted with Islam. I know the central tenant is that there is only one God, and there is to be no idol worship. However, I must question that when I see Muslims protesting and rioting in the street over insults to the Koran and the Prophet Mohhammed. Seems like this puts both the Koran and the Prophet in an exhaulted posistion over what they should be held in. Not meaning this as an insulting question, but I am just bothered by it.

[Rima]

very typical question , we heard it over and over

We Muslims don`t worship people , Muhamed is only a man , his duty was only to bring God`s message to mankind
we don`t worship Muhamed , but we are proud to be in his Ummah (nation) , proud of being muslims who are submitted to the creator ,only
Kuran is our holy book, we believe It is the word of God

so Muhemed a.s. and the Quran are our holiness ,our sacred figures our sanctuary , and we would be very sad when our sacred are insulted (which is very normal human reaction)

we also respect all other prophets, muslims love Jesus a.s. and respet him, muslim couldn`t be a muslim if he insult Jesus a.s.
we respet all prophets of all other religions

now you wonder about muslims reaction when the Kuran or the prophet a.s. were insulted
let me ask you this:
how would Christians feel if sombody insult Jesus, or if somebody disgrace the Bible ??
can you imagine what the west would do? let me guess here , they would announce the third world war
we muslim have a right to protest at least

Selam

[butterflylady]

I think that non-Christians insult the Bible and Jesus on a pretty regular basis, and there is no rioting in the street, just some grumbling and anger. I am just suprised that Muslims do it, because the Koran while holy is a book, and Mohammed though a Prophet is a man. They are physical objects.

[Rima]

I think that non-Christians insult the Bible and Jesus on a pretty regular basis, .

I haven`t heard any non-muslim throw any Bible in the toilet bowl ?
have you??


has anybody heard anything like that?? :mad:

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[Khaldun]

:sl:

it shows how strong the conviction of the people is. If they believe 101 % that this "book" is from the Creator of the Universe and that Muhammed (may peace be upon him) really is the Messenger then they will be willing to oppose any disrespect shown towards it. Whereas if you half heartledly believe it really doesnt bother you and you have "more important" things to worry about.

[MetSudaisTwice]

yes bro that is true

[Danish]

:sl:
tell me butterflylady, who do u love most? What if someone calls ur most beloved person, names and slander him/her, would u not bother to defend?

if u really love someone who wouldn't wanna insult them or slander them or abuse them in anyway, u will try ur best to clarify the matter, and naturally ur temper will rise...same thing is with our love for Quran and Muhammed (PHUB)

although i do agree, muslims should try to control their anger as it's stated on quran even whem inviting others to islam

[butterflylady]

I have seen plenty of examples of Muslims desecrating things sacred to the Christian, Jew, Buddhist and Hindu. That is not even something that can be debated.

I am still suprised when I see rioting and killing in the street. It does remain that the rioting is over a man and a book, no matter how holy. Does God wish killing over that? I don't think so. If there is evil done to his name then he will avenge. The eternal nature and name of God is in no way affected by somebody here on this earth harming a physical object or memory of a man.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

We are supposed to love Allah and his Rasool, Muhammed (SAW), more than our parents and our wives and our children. Verily we are supposed to listen to Prophet even if he is calling us while we are in our Salah, as a hadith is related about a man who was praying Salah and the prophet called him while he was in the middle of his Salah, but the man didnt go until he finished, so when he goes the Prophet tells him that one has to respond if he (Muhammed (SAW) ) calls him. and he tells the man a ayat which i cant remember right now, if others can provide Inshallah that will be great.

So the point is that, we love Muhammed more than anything,(except our Creator Allah ) and that if we see him Insulted we cannot sit quiet and do nothing about it. And the Quran is obviously Allah's last revelation to Mankind, it is a pure book, clean, away from all filth and evils and changes, so if we muslims dont care about it, then who will? The Quran is our guidence along with the Prophet.

as for us holding them in higher postion then you say we shud, we can guerntee that we hold Allah in a much higher position because he is the Creator of Muhammed and all that exists, and He is the Supreme Author of the Quran.

dont get me wrong, we dont worship the Quran or Prophet Muhammed (SAW), we hold them in a high positton, because Allah has said to hoild them in ahigh position.

:w:

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I have seen plenty of examples of Muslims desecrating things sacred to the Christian, Jew, Buddhist and Hindu. That is not even something that can be debated.

I am still suprised when I see rioting and killing in the street. It does remain that the rioting is over a man and a book, no matter how holy. Does God wish killing over that? I don't think so. If there is evil done to his name then he will avenge. The eternal nature and name of God is in no way affected by somebody here on this earth harming a physical object or memory of a man.

You are right in a way, but let me ask you this:

If someone insults your dead Mother (Allah Forbid), will you just walk away? or will you try to get them back for their insult?

srry for the dead mother example

wasalam

[Uthman]

:sl:

:) I agree with all of you that we should defend the sacred text and the best of all creation from insults and slander. This is the natural human reaction and it shows how muslims are prepared to defend their religion at all costs. It is an effective way to show that it is something that muslims will not stand for. But at the same time, instead of using just violence, we need to be praying to Allah for their forgiveness and to correct their ways, and as Danish said, we need to control our anger. Obviously, this is not something worth killing fellow human beings of Allah's creation over unless someone would care to correct me.

:w:

[Danish]

:sl:

I have seen plenty of examples of Muslims desecrating things sacred to the Christian, Jew, Buddhist and Hindu. That is not even something that can be debated.

do try to believe me when i say we don't get any richer or lead better life regardles of whether a person finds the truth or not. As for witholding with religion, all relious ppl do that, simply talk with them, i am sure u must be aware of the idea of 'islamaphobic'? Yeh, and many religious ppl r behind it

Secondly when religious ppl "desecrating", it doesn't mean they r following their book, for example in 16/17 century many ppl were killed because christians wrongly thought ppl were practising witchcraft. So its important to follow holy books instread of 'holy ppl'. This is what quran says about inviting others to islam:
"Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance." -- Quran 016.125

I am still suprised when I see rioting and killing in the street. It does remain that the rioting is over a man and a book, no matter how holy. Does God wish killing over that? I don't think so. If there is evil done to his name then he will avenge. The eternal nature and name of God is in no way affected by somebody here on this earth harming a physical object or memory of a man.

is there a particular incidense u r refering to?

[butterflylady]

It just bothers me thats all. The reaction is emotional, not just religious behavior. I cannot see Mohammed condoning such violence, at least that is not what I see when I read the Koran. At the most I could say (if I were Muslim), that the attitude fits "Vengance is mine, sayeth the Lord, I will repay." Of course there are plenty of intances of Christians and Hindus and Jews rioting in the name of insults to Mary or Jesus, Krishna or Isreal's holy sites. Same thing, the object so insulted is not God, it is elevating an idea, concept or object over the most Holy. And, is God so fragile that he cannot stand this? Of course not, how we finate humans vilify or bless God does not change him, he stands eternal.

Instances I can think of;
The rioting in India that left several dead after I think it was Swaggart or Roberston said that Mohammad was not a Prophet (I don't agree with him). But still it was very bloody rioting.

I think over the past few years there have been quite a few incidents in Iran.

Riots over the Muslim female author from Bangladesh.

And so on, I have to go pull the references.

And, to answer the other question I have been exposed sometimes imersed in Islam for twenty plus years. Some things such as the above disturb me greatly.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl: butterflylady,
First of all, no one is condoning violence here. The Qur'an and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad saws strictly forbid such behaviour.

However, we need to understand why there is such outrage. The words of our Creator, Most High and Exalted, have been thrown into a toilet, to rot in feces and urine. This is an unspeakable crime of the worst nature.

If you knew how much respect and reverence Muslims give to the words of God, you would understand the terrible nature of this crime. Muslims only read the Qur'an after they have washed themselves. They do not touch it while in a state if impurity. They keep it in a lofty position, and off the floor.

Even a paper with the name of God on it, cannot be thrown in the garbage, so imagine what it is like for an entire book containing the words of God.

We have a right to be outraged. This is not condoning any violence, but I hope you can appreciate the significance of such a crime. I hope I have placed it into perspective.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask.

:w:

[Muhammad]

:sl:

While Muhammad (peace be upon him) is just a man, and while the Qur'aan is just a book, the fact remains that they are unlike any other people or books in existence today. Furthermore, an attack on Muhammad (pbuh) or the Qur'aan is an attack on Islam, since these are the two most important sources of knowledge that a Muslim follows, therefore it is our duty to defend Islam when it is attacked - but we must behave according to our teachings and not do anything unislamic while trying to do this. So I hope you understand that the Qur'aan and Muhammad (pbuh) are more than mere objects to us, and anyone who attempts to disgrace them is clearly trying to start a fight with Muslims.

The other thing you mentioned - that God does not need humans to defend His religion, true, God is in no need of anyone's actions. But anger is a natural reaction and I believe what people are actually doing is to show that they will not stand for injustice. But please remember that futile killing and bloodshed is not from Islam, and actions are to be carried out with wisdom.

This is also interesting to read:
A comprehensive and graceful account of the noble qualities, merciful disposition and distinctive traits of the 'prophet's character has been left by Hind b. Abi Hala. He says:
....
'I never saw him exacting retribution for any offence or excess excepting when the honour of God was concerned or the limit set by Him was transgressed, in which case the Prophet would be more enraged than anybody else.'
http://www.islamicboard.com/showthread.php?t=1167

[butterflylady]

So in regards to Muslims destroying items from other religions. Would you say that is a sin or not a sin?

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

So in regards to Muslims destroying items from other religions. Would you say that is a sin or not a sin?

:sl: If you could quote a specific example it would be best.

Muslims are commanded to respect other religions and not to insult or attack people of other faiths. We would definitely not harm the Bible or Tanakh because Muslims believe that they were originally inspired by God as well, but have become changed over time. Muslims respect all books in general.

So with regards to your question, yes it is a sin to destroy items of other faiths and belonging to other people.

:w:

[MukkyX]

So in regards to Muslims destroying items from other religions. Would you say that is a sin or not a sin?

The only instance that i can remember that the sahabah (ra) destroyed objects from other faiths would be when they cleansed the kaba of the idols.
In all other situations they were free to practice what they wanted, which is also the main reason why people of other faiths actually preferred to live under an Islamic Rule over others.

[Abubakar]

:sl:

Hi Butterflylady,

If you could give me an example of Muslims destroying items sacred to other religions I would be grateful.

I cannot bring one to mind at the moment.

It is not part of Islam to insult other peoples religions.

Peace

[S_87]

So in regards to Muslims destroying items from other religions. Would you say that is a sin or not a sin?

like what?

like how the taliban destroyed the statues?
that is not a sin..infact a big reward :)

[Ibn Syed]

Since when did some muslim disrespect a book of a different religion. I agree with Ansar on this. The Bible and the Torah have been changed over time.
:w: