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Helena
06-24-2006, 06:44 PM
:sl:

Since the beginning of the world cup there has been a rise in the number of people flying the English flag in a desperate attempt to regain national pride. The problem is that this has also become very common within the Muslim community. The call for integration has affected some Muslims to the extent whereby they have gone out of their way to become more acceptable to the Englishman. They too in order to show their solidarity and moderation have flown the English flag over their homes and on their cars, most often not knowing the history behind it.



The national flag of England (otherwise known as the St George flag) bears the blood red cross symbolizing the patron saint of England; St George. This flag was adopted as the uniform for English soldiers during the Crusades against the Muslims of the eleventh, twelfth and thirteenth centuries and was the flag held by the Christians when marching into battle against the Muslims. At the Church of St. George in Fordington, England, there is a sculpture of St. George on a horse leading the Crusaders to victory at the Battle of Antioch (June 1098); his flag bearing the cross.



It is important to note that the Christian crusades were launched at the Council of Clermont in France, on November 27, 1095 by Pope Urban II in order to fight against the Muslims and gain authority over them, believing that this was gods work. These bloodthirsty crusaders waged a brutal and savage attack against the Muslims killing anyone in sight be it men, women or children resulting in mass killing and bloodshed. They un-relentlessly tortured and mutilated Muslims with blood flowing up their knees in the lands of al-Quds without care showing their barbarity and hatred for the Muslims. This ‘war of the cross’ was fought under the banner of Christianity with the red-blood cross as their emblem. These crusades did not stop, in fact up until now we see how the Christians of Europe and their illegitimate children in America have once again allied to fight against the Muslims in order to gain power and authority over us with the aim of destroying our belief. They too believe that they are doing gods work in the service of Christ, even the likes of Bush claim to have received instruction from god telling him to launch a crusade against the Muslims. Bush being the bloodthirsty crusader at the forefront with the cross held high whilst the others follow on behind.



Today this flag is widely used in England as a symbol of national pride and identity more commonly during sporting competitions like the football world cup. The sad reality is that many Muslims too have taken up this flag and chosen to display it as a symbol of their support for the English. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that not only does it represent the blood thirsty Christian crusades waged against the Muslims but also the Christian cross which is a symbol of the incorrect belief that Jesus was crucified on it.



Allah (swt) says in the Quran; And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. [4:157]



Many Muslims have as a result of their ignorance displayed this flag in their houses, shops, cars and even on themselves without knowing the implications of it. The common response from ignorant Muslims is to say; ‘I only support the football team that’s why I’ve got it’ without even taking into consideration the implications of this act. Most often it is these same people who during the cricket world cup will not hesitate to raise the Pakistani or Bengali flag for the same reason. Yet this is not a valid excuse as is the case if someone was to wear a Jewish skullcap, the Sikh bangle, or any other such religious symbol. In fact to do such a thing is in itself an act of kufr as this is showing support, acceptance and reverence to their religious symbols. The fact of the matter is that the English flag is not just a symbol of support for a football team, rather it contains the Christian cross and carries a history of brutality towards the Muslims. It is reported that Ayesha (ra) said: “The Prophet (saw) would not leave anything in his house on which there was a cross but he would alter it.” [Bukhari]



And when uday bin haatim (who used to be a christian before Islam) mistakenly wore a cross out of habit, the prophet (saw) ordered him, “throw this wathn (idol) from your neck!”



Furthermore the Messenger of Allah (saw) said; “whoever imitates a people is one of them”. Imitating the kuffar in their deen is an act of kufr and this is what holding up, waving or displaying the Christian cross (i.e. the St George Flag) amounts to.



We call upon all Muslims to take heed from this message and to remove any flags they may posses however big or small and to advise others to do the same, be they neighbours, family, relatives or friends.

http://www.alghurabaa.co.uk/Deen/walaa_baraa/flag.htm

any comments inshalah...

:w:
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SirZubair
06-24-2006, 06:50 PM
Asalam alaikum.

Seriously,if any sane muslim out there is affected by this article,i suggest they seek professional help.

The crusades happened decades ago.

Times have changed,the world has moved on.

And if you havent (not speaking directly TO you sis,im speaking in general terms),then like i suggested,seek professional help.

wa'salaam.
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- Qatada -
06-24-2006, 06:54 PM
:wasalamex


It is narrated by Abu Da'wud that the Messenger of Allah (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam) said,

"He is not one us who calls for `Asabiyyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyyah or who dies for `Asabiyyah." And in another Hadith, the Messenger of Allah (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam) referring to nationalism, racism, and patriotism said:

"Leave it, it is rotten." [Muslim and Bukhari]


The Prohibition of Nationalism in Islam
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ht=nationalism


:salamext:
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Ghazi
06-24-2006, 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
Asalam alaikum.

Seriously,if any sane muslim out there is affected by this article,i suggest they seek professional help.

The crusades happened decades ago.

Times have changed,the world has moved on.

And if you havent (not speaking directly TO you sis,im speaking in general terms),then like i suggested,seek professional help.

wa'salaam.
:sl:

But still it's disrespect to our brothers who are shaheed due to their jihad against the crusaders they can support the team as much as they want but it makes me sick to see muslims kissing the flag and placing it one their cars with such pride.
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SirZubair
06-24-2006, 06:58 PM
And we wonder why the world doesnt take us seriously.

Hmm.

I can't quite put my finger on it...
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Ghazi
06-24-2006, 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
And we wonder why the world doesnt take us seriously.

Hmm.

I can't quite put my finger on it...
:sl:

Beats me If I was Calipha with the will of allah the whole dunya would take muslim seriously.
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SirZubair
06-24-2006, 07:05 PM
Dreams are free ;)

Wa'salaam

-Zubair
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azim
06-24-2006, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
And we wonder why the world doesnt take us seriously.

Hmm.

I can't quite put my finger on it...
Asalamu alaykum sister.

I understand your point that we shouldn't dwell on past events or hold grudges for centuries.

However, as brother Fi_Sabilillah pointed out, nationalism is nothing something which Muslims should participate in. That should be reason enough to leave it.

Also, we should remember it is forbidden to wear or show the symbols of another religion. We are Muslim and we should ensure that we are obviously Muslim in this life so that insha'Allah, we are recognised as Muslim in the hereafter.

That said: St. George was a Palestinian... :p
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Ghazi
06-24-2006, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
Dreams are free ;)

Wa'salaam

-Zubair
:sl:

Ambition can be made reality I see too much Hyprocracy in the ummah this is our weakness, we lack real men.
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SirZubair
06-24-2006, 07:18 PM
A real man is one who dwells over the past?

In that case,the Ummah has more men than it needs..
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Ghazi
06-24-2006, 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
A real man is one who dwells over the past?

In that case,the Ummah has more men than it needs..
:sl:

A real man is one who has loyalty to his brothers wheather he be dead or alive or span centuries and also learn from the past, but right know we have arm chair imams who feel the urge to speak of topics that suit the kufar and put them at ease in case they get accused of being an extreamist and loose the beloved "Green Card" but won't even mention the things allah has commanded us to do and comdem anyone who speaks of them. WILL THE REAL MEN STAND UP!
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SirZubair
06-24-2006, 07:26 PM
Well,i am one of the few who chose to move on.

Call me daisy.

wa'salaam.
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aamirsaab
06-24-2006, 07:27 PM
:sl:
The england flag no longer holds any meaning to the crusades. Ask anyone from the teen-age to good ol' pensioners about the history of the flag, and they'll reply "duh....thinking".

Now, i'm not saying that the cusades didn't happen, no, neither am I saying many muslims were not killed. What I am saying, which is actually reiterating what SirZubair said, is: it's in the past - let it go.

You can't change the past, but you can influence your future.

p.s; loyalty to the dead is meaningless - loyalty to what they died for is not.
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Ghazi
06-24-2006, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
The england flag no longer holds any meaning to the crusades. Ask anyone from the teen-age to good ol' pensioners about the history of the flag, and they'll reply "duh....thinking".

Now, i'm not saying that the cusades didn't happen, no, neither am I saying many muslims were not killed. What I am saying, which is actually reiterating what SirZubair said, is: it's in the past - let it go.

You can't change the past, but you can influence your future.

p.s; loyalty to the dead is meaningless - loyalty to what they died for is not.
:sl:

Thats beacuse they don't know if they knew the history then they'd probably give a diffrent answer.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-24-2006, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
OH NO,i am one of them ! *Hides* :hiding:
Oh you noticed brothers are generally weirdos too? Lol, I would be ashamed too!
Anyway, I really hate nationalism and that kind of obsessive pride, so I don't appreciate people waving anything other than the flag of Islam. You can love your country, but nationalism is a different kind of thing.
Just my humble opinion.
W'salaam
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aamirsaab
06-24-2006, 07:38 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Thats beacuse they don't know if they knew the history then they'd probably give a diffrent answer.
Don't know or don't care? From what I have seen, it is the latter.
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Trumble
06-24-2006, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by helena
:sl:

Since the beginning of the world cup there has been a rise in the number of people flying the English flag in a desperate attempt to regain national pride.
Complete drivel.

I didn't know we had lost "national pride". What we have actually seen is a large number of people displaying the flag to signify support for the English team in the World Cup.

They too in order to show their solidarity and moderation have flown the English flag over their homes and on their cars, most often not knowing the history behind it.
No, they too, being English, are just showing support for the English team in the World Cup.

The national flag of England (otherwise known as the St George flag) bears the blood red cross
In the same way the French flag bears a "blood" red stripe, and the Chinese flag is virtually all "blood" red?:?

This flag was adopted as the uniform for English soldiers during the Crusades against the Muslims of the eleventh, twelfth and thirteenth centuries and was the flag held by the Christians when marching into battle against the Muslims.
And its hardly likely to be changed now. Only history buffs and the odd movie fan would even be aware of the association any more.

Today this flag is widely used in England as a symbol of national pride and identity more commonly during sporting competitions like the football world cup.
It's rarely used in any context except sports where England has a seperate team from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (who display their own flags with equal "mational pride"). The flag of the United Kingdom, the Union Jack, is much more common other contexts.


The sad reality is that many Muslims too have taken up this flag and chosen to display it as a symbol of their support for the English.
Why cannot they display "support for the English" if they ARE English?
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Ghazi
06-24-2006, 08:18 PM
So how many of you would anyone go out dressed like the "KKK" Why not may I ask? Even though they aint that well known anymore like they were back in the day History is History and has a meaning!
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SirZubair
06-24-2006, 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
So how many of you would anyone go out dressed like the "KKK" Why not may I ask? Even though they aint that well known anymore like they were back in the day History is History and has a meaning!
Let me know when you start being serious.

Because the above statement is a laugh.
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Ghazi
06-24-2006, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
Let me know when you start being serious.

Because the above statement is a laugh.
:sl:

Answer the question please.
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aamirsaab
06-24-2006, 08:26 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by islam-truth
So how many of you would anyone go out dressed like the "KKK" Why not may I ask? Even though they aint that well known anymore like they were back in the day History is History and has a meaning!
Good question. However, the KKK are more well known. The crusades also have a meaning too, but very few care about the england flag as a representation for them. All it represents now is the football team.
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- Qatada -
06-24-2006, 08:27 PM
:salamext:


Brother islam-truth, we don't need to argue over petty arguments like this. If we keep arguing over matters that are already proved, then we should focus on the more serios issues that seriosly affect the ummah.


:wasalamex
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-24-2006, 08:29 PM
That is true.
Evryone please remember that we should speak to each other with kindness.
W'salaam
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Ghazi
06-24-2006, 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


Brother islam-truth, we don't need to argue over petty arguments like this. If we keep arguing over matters that are already proved, then we should focus on the more serios issues that seriosly affect the ummah.


:wasalamex
:sl:

I agree bro but they also seem to cause controversy seems you can never win.
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SirZubair
06-24-2006, 08:50 PM
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Muezzin
06-24-2006, 08:58 PM
I dislike these flag topics. I've read and heard again and again that we as Muslims aren't supposed to fly any flag, which, I guess, is because it can promote a sort of tribal mentality, which in turn promotes disunity.


























On the other hand, if one must fly a flag, try this one:



Arr!
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noshaba
06-24-2006, 09:02 PM
salaam.....although i feel for you that you are very much disturbed by the english flag.....the purpose of flags is to represent a country, nation...in which many religions live in.....the flag of england only represents the country in which the muslim ummah also live in and are part of...therefore showing the flag off doesnt result them disbeying their religion but more further bringing peace between each other as the christains and people of other religions would realise tht even muslims are dedicated to supporting their country....
and the past facts of the country......thts the past.....as they say bury the hatchet and move on.....bringing up the past is just putting salt into healed wounds....islam = peace..let it be
salaam sister hpe i ddint offend u :)
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Ghazi
06-24-2006, 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
:sl:

lol I'll meet you in battle
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amirah_87
06-24-2006, 09:16 PM
hey guys ass salamu alaykum ..

i don't wanna go into a battle either but.... isn't the england flag consistent of the cross of saint george of david or sumthing!!...so it'd be haram for us to carry it around and put it up cause there's a cross on it right like it's haram for us to wear it around our beck or any wear else....!

wa aalykum ass salaam
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Helena
06-25-2006, 12:05 AM
:sl:

very interesting replies, i was quiet nervous myself to post this thread in the fisrt place, as i felt some arguements will occur thru the post....

well am very, truly sorry behalf of all members...see i couldnt sleep..its like 12.30am in london...

yes i do agree wid u all, its a past and us muslims should move on....looking at the past doesnt bring any comfort at all, we shud be focus on wots happening now to our ummah, try to solve that inshalah!

AS some sed to me...we shud try to learn something from the past, and improve ourselves inshalah!

The reason i posted this, well i was in whitechaple...my fellow muslims brothers handed the leaflet to moi, i thought it mite be useful to share it wid u all...to hear ur views against this....

okay one more thing..hope am not offending anyone...the fact that people are calling muslims terriorist..is this the past??? should that be let go? bury the past? or is it the carrier of the past?

:w:
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SirZubair
06-25-2006, 06:48 AM
Originally Posted by helena
okay one more thing..hope am not offending anyone...the fact that people are calling muslims terriorist..is this the past??? should that be let go? bury the past? or is it the carrier of the past?
Asalam alaikum Sister Helena.

Well,..there are still Terrorists out there who identify themselves as Muslims.

So no,It isnt the past,it is something that occurs daily.

So i dont see how it can be buried,or let go of.

Wa'salaam.

-Zubair
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Isaac
06-25-2006, 07:20 AM
out of curiosity is the england flag that we see everywhere england george cross flag. meaning does it not have a cross on it? The red cross appeared in the crusades and is one of the earliest known emblems representing England. The flag is derived from that of the Knights Templar.

so how can we go around waving this flag?

how many of us wave the banner of the saudi flag which testifies that there is only one god and muhammed is his messenger? can we do this without feeling funny and looking odd?
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amirah_87
06-25-2006, 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by Isaac
out of curiosity is the england flag that we see everywhere england george cross flag. meaning does it not have a cross on it? The red cross appeared in the crusades and is one of the earliest known emblems representing England. The flag is derived from that of the Knights Templar.

so how can we go around waving this flag?

how many of us wave the banner of the saudi flag which testifies that there is only one god and muhammed is his messenger? can we do this without feeling funny and looking odd?
^^salaams akhee , that's exactly what i was thinking!!...it's the St George's cross so how could a muslim hang it around ..
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aamirsaab
06-25-2006, 05:27 PM
:sl:
To all complainers of the flag:
It's the flag of england - you have a problem, go tell the queen and get a petition up and running. Then watch it fail. If you don't like it, you might as well leave the country - there are some things that you cannot change (like this flag thing) so don't get worked up about it. Alternatively, you could just let it be.

Look, I dislike the crusades just as much as everyone else but you don't see me complaining: I take it all in a stride and get on with my life - i care not for these little things but instead concentrate on following islam and going far in this world. Perhaps others should do the same.

p.s; if I complained about every tiny little wrong doing or unethical decision ever made, I would be a very bitter man and probably would've had a nervous break-down.
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amirah_87
06-25-2006, 05:45 PM
salaams akhee ,

I ain't got a problem with the flag so there'll be no need for a petition!!! OR getting outta the country!! *rollseyes*
i was just merely answering the topic of the thread "what the flag reprensent""....which is the cross st george and how it's wrong for muslims..to hang and wave it around!!.......:?:?
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DaNgErOuS MiNdS
06-25-2006, 05:59 PM
Aside from all the nationality issues and crusades the cross represents the crucifiction of Jesus Christ, something that contradicts the Qu'ran because we muslims believe Jesus wasn't crucified. At the end of the day it is your choice whether you wantto fly the flag but I would suggest doing all the research before you do so.

For those saying forget it, it's in the past is past shouldn't affect us now if I was to do that how could I leanr about my deen? wasn't that also in the past?

peace
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Muhammad
06-25-2006, 06:05 PM
:sl:

It's not so much a problem with the flag, since if the english want it as their flag, that is their choice. The problem is Muslims brandishing the flag in support of the country, which, although may have innocent intentions, can imply various other meanings. Such meanings are not merely restricted to historical events - which of itself seems enough a reason to avoid the act in question - but also include the representation of the Christian faith.

The initial article mentions the other reasons as being:

It is reported that Ayesha (ra) said: “The Prophet (saw) would not leave anything in his house on which there was a cross but he would alter it.” [Bukhari]
Furthermore the Messenger of Allah (saw) said; “whoever imitates a people is one of them”. Imitating the kuffar in their deen is an act of kufr and this is what holding up, waving or displaying the Christian cross (i.e. the St George Flag) amounts to.
So whoever disagrees with this article, that is your personal choice and conclusion. Yet I don't think it is right to criticize those who are in agreement with it and choose to avoid a possible wrong action, especially when there isn't even a need to buy the flag in the first place.

:w:
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aamirsaab
06-25-2006, 06:50 PM
:sl:
"Clean up on Aisle seven hundred."
Originally Posted by Amirah_87
salaams akhee ,

I ain't got a problem with the flag so there'll be no need for a petition!!! OR getting outta the country!! *rollseyes*
i was just merely answering the topic of the thread "what the flag reprensent""....which is the cross st george and how it's wrong for muslims..to hang and wave it around!!.......
Then my post didn't concern you :).

Originally Posted by DaNgErOuS MiNdS
For those saying forget it, it's in the past is past shouldn't affect us now if I was to do that how could I leanr about my deen? wasn't that also in the past?

peace
I was refering to the negative side of the past. Remain positive, not negative and you'll live a happy life.

I agree with Muhammad's view point.
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Isaac
06-25-2006, 07:21 PM
exactly brother amir. no ones is complaining about the falg because it belongs to britain, the issues lie deeper. into the difference of understanding and how and what the flag represents, meaning should muslims really be flying around flags which contradict the quran and are a sign of kufr. and why is that when someone has an issue with the country or britain people jump on the band waggon and say well why dont you leave???????? is this not a democarcy that brothers like to praise? can you not have an objection based on religious grounds, because thats what it is for most people, not just because its a british flag, without being labbeled fanatics.

the point im trying to make is that on religious grounds it is wrong to wave the benner of which contradicts our religious belief. and to make it clear hwoever strong the arghument on nationlism, mines is not based on nationalism, rather on religious grounds.
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IbnAbdulHakim
06-25-2006, 07:24 PM
:salamext:

Excellent thread sis!! Excellent!!

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ism-islam.html



BE PROUD ABOUT UR RELIGION ONLY, WHAT ELSE CAN BENEFIT YOU?

:wasalamex
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Isaac
06-25-2006, 07:30 PM
and brother im not trying to get you worked up, but how can you say that when a muslim is flying around a flag which contradicts the deen of allah a small thing. how can it be that the hadith "Furthermore the Messenger of Allah (saw) said; “whoever imitates a people is one of them”. Imitating the kuffar in their deen is an act of kufr and this is what holding up, waving or displaying the Christian cross (i.e. the St George Flag) amounts to - be a small thing. the whole point is that some muslim are unaware that they may be commiting in what may be in some eyes a small thing but in fact commiting a major offensive and contradiction to their belief. so there is no small issue in islam especially when people are doing when there is clear objection against with reason for its objection.

this is not intended to anyone but expect those who say its ok, to do this knowing the condemnation for doing such things and reasons for it.
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AvarAllahNoor
06-25-2006, 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by helena
:sl:

Since the beginning of the world cup there has been a rise in the number of people flying the English flag in a desperate attempt to regain national pride. The problem is that this has also become very common within the Muslim community. The call for integration has affected some Muslims to the extent whereby they have gone out of their way to become more acceptable to the Englishman. They too in order to show their solidarity and moderation have flown the English flag over their homes and on their cars, most often not knowing the history behind it.



The national flag of England (otherwise known as the St George flag) bears the blood red cross symbolizing the patron saint of England; St George. This flag was adopted as the uniform for English soldiers during the Crusades against the Muslims of the eleventh, twelfth and thirteenth centuries and was the flag held by the Christians when marching into battle against the Muslims. At the Church of St. George in Fordington, England, there is a sculpture of St. George on a horse leading the Crusaders to victory at the Battle of Antioch (June 1098); his flag bearing the cross.



It is important to note that the Christian crusades were launched at the Council of Clermont in France, on November 27, 1095 by Pope Urban II in order to fight against the Muslims and gain authority over them, believing that this was gods work. These bloodthirsty crusaders waged a brutal and savage attack against the Muslims killing anyone in sight be it men, women or children resulting in mass killing and bloodshed. They un-relentlessly tortured and mutilated Muslims with blood flowing up their knees in the lands of al-Quds without care showing their barbarity and hatred for the Muslims. This ‘war of the cross’ was fought under the banner of Christianity with the red-blood cross as their emblem. These crusades did not stop, in fact up until now we see how the Christians of Europe and their illegitimate children in America have once again allied to fight against the Muslims in order to gain power and authority over us with the aim of destroying our belief. They too believe that they are doing gods work in the service of Christ, even the likes of Bush claim to have received instruction from god telling him to launch a crusade against the Muslims. Bush being the bloodthirsty crusader at the forefront with the cross held high whilst the others follow on behind.



Today this flag is widely used in England as a symbol of national pride and identity more commonly during sporting competitions like the football world cup. The sad reality is that many Muslims too have taken up this flag and chosen to display it as a symbol of their support for the English. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that not only does it represent the blood thirsty Christian crusades waged against the Muslims but also the Christian cross which is a symbol of the incorrect belief that Jesus was crucified on it.



Allah (swt) says in the Quran; And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. [4:157]



Many Muslims have as a result of their ignorance displayed this flag in their houses, shops, cars and even on themselves without knowing the implications of it. The common response from ignorant Muslims is to say; ‘I only support the football team that’s why I’ve got it’ without even taking into consideration the implications of this act. Most often it is these same people who during the cricket world cup will not hesitate to raise the Pakistani or Bengali flag for the same reason. Yet this is not a valid excuse as is the case if someone was to wear a Jewish skullcap, the Sikh bangle, or any other such religious symbol. In fact to do such a thing is in itself an act of kufr as this is showing support, acceptance and reverence to their religious symbols. The fact of the matter is that the English flag is not just a symbol of support for a football team, rather it contains the Christian cross and carries a history of brutality towards the Muslims. It is reported that Ayesha (ra) said: “The Prophet (saw) would not leave anything in his house on which there was a cross but he would alter it.” [Bukhari]



And when uday bin haatim (who used to be a christian before Islam) mistakenly wore a cross out of habit, the prophet (saw) ordered him, “throw this wathn (idol) from your neck!”



Furthermore the Messenger of Allah (saw) said; “whoever imitates a people is one of them”. Imitating the kuffar in their deen is an act of kufr and this is what holding up, waving or displaying the Christian cross (i.e. the St George Flag) amounts to.



We call upon all Muslims to take heed from this message and to remove any flags they may posses however big or small and to advise others to do the same, be they neighbours, family, relatives or friends.

http://www.alghurabaa.co.uk/Deen/walaa_baraa/flag.htm

any comments inshalah...

:w:

:rollseyes Time to let go now, surely!
Reply

DaNgErOuS MiNdS
06-25-2006, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:



I was refering to the negative side of the past. Remain positive, not negative and you'll live a happy life.

I agree with Muhammad's view point.

Which "negative side" should we be leaving in the past and forgetting about?
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
06-25-2006, 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

But still it's disrespect to our brothers who are shaheed due to their jihad against the crusaders they can support the team as much as they want but it makes me sick to see muslims kissing the flag and placing it one their cars with such pride.
It's like the union jack which ahs been tainted by the BNP. Now many see the St George flag as a British pride. Can you not be muslim and British?

Don't forget, a muslim is a follower of Islam, and being british is someone who resides in Britain!
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
06-25-2006, 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Beats me If I was Calipha with the will of allah the whole dunya would take muslim seriously.
How would you do that, i'd be interested in hearing it? ;D
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
06-25-2006, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
So how many of you would anyone go out dressed like the "KKK" Why not may I ask? Even though they aint that well known anymore like they were back in the day History is History and has a meaning!
Competely different!

What flag did the KKK have?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
06-25-2006, 07:53 PM
[S]STAY ON TOPIC INSHAALLAH[/S]



Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
:salamext:

Excellent thread sis!! Excellent!!

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ism-islam.html



BE PROUD ABOUT UR RELIGION ONLY, WHAT ELSE CAN BENEFIT YOU?

:wasalamex
Reply

DaNgErOuS MiNdS
06-25-2006, 08:13 PM
A wise man once said:

"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots."
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
06-25-2006, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by DaNgErOuS MiNdS
A wise man once said:

"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots."
:salamext:

and thats islam wiv unity right :)

:wasalamex
Reply

Ferrari1981
06-25-2006, 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:wasalamex
It is narrated by Abu Da'wud that the Messenger of Allah (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam) said,
"He is not one us who calls for `Asabiyyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyyah or who dies for `Asabiyyah." And in another Hadith, the Messenger of Allah (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam) referring to nationalism, racism, and patriotism said:
"Leave it, it is rotten." [Muslim and Bukhari]
The Prohibition of Nationalism in Islam
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ht=nationalism:salamext:
Salaam

Im personally a very anti- nationalism, cultural etc...

BUT correct me if im wrong theres a hadith (al-bukhari) where the prophet (pbuh) said we have tribes and we should respect them... also in another hadith we should respect/abide by the laws of the country we live in (respectable laws of course non that go against our religion)?

Ma'aslaama
Reply

Isaac
06-26-2006, 06:42 AM
brother not being a die hard nationlist means you go around breaking the laws of the land. no body said they want to go out and kill british people, steal, or scam. and im sure its not the law of the land that if you dont wave the st.george cross about youll get locked up. the issue here is of the flag, not the laws of the land, or the flag being british flag, its all about what it represents.
Reply

Sis786
06-26-2006, 07:58 AM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
I am ignorant because i dont cry a river everytime i see the English flag?

I had NO Words for you Sis.

Actually,..i do,i have many words for you.

But the english flag is enough reason for you to cry a river,i dont want to give you more reasons.

Wa'salaam.
Salaam Bro

I think you are missing the point. I mean yes the past is the past BUT we cannot forget what has happened. I mean Muhammed pbhu is the past is he not the Revloution is the past is it not BUT these importnant points a muslim must remember and carry life on thinking of these things.

Yes the Crusade was many years ago nevertheless someones Great grandparents were killed in cold blood our Ummah was affected and yet you think its all good to wear a flag that marks the day that these Muslims were killed. I think not.

Yeah i agree we have to move on but its importnant that we dont forget the past as it has a nasty way of repeating itself.

p.s Well would you wear the Israel flag proudly at home or on the Street. I dont think so
Reply

aamirsaab
06-26-2006, 07:58 AM
:sl:
I think people missinterpreted the soul of my post. So, like a broken record, I shall repeat.
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
... I take it all in a stride and get on with my life - i care not for these little things but instead concentrate on following islam and going far in this world. Perhaps others should do the same.

p.s; if I complained about every tiny little wrong doing or unethical decision ever made, I would be a very bitter man and probably would've had a nervous break-down.
My absolute final words on this topic are:
Learn from the past - yes
Live in the past - no.
Reply

SirZubair
06-26-2006, 08:05 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
I think you are missing the point. I mean yes the past is the past BUT we cannot forget what has happened. I mean Muhammed pbhu is the past is he not the Revloution is the past is it not BUT these importnant points a muslim must remember and carry life on thinking of these things.
Its funny you point that out...Maybe we should be focusing more on THAT rather than "hey,look,there is a cross of that flag,Haram!Bid'ah!Devients!" :?

Originally Posted by Sis786
p.s Well would you wear the Israel flag proudly at home or on the Street. I dont think so
I am simply going to ignore that question. Because there is no point in answering it.

Wa'salaam.
Reply

Muhammad
06-26-2006, 11:24 AM
:sl:

This issue has been discussed enough. Thread shall be closed to prevent further argumentation.

:threadclo

:w:
Reply

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