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Les_Nubian
07-26-2006, 01:01 PM
I am a recent "revert" to Islam, I guess you could say.

I was wondering, do you beleive that Islam is the ONLY way? Or do you beleive that there are a number of ways to connect with god or Allah? Do you beleive that Allah has set aside only one religion to communicate with "him", and to get to heaven? And if someone has never heard of Islam, then the "pen is lifted", I suppose, right?

Just wondering what your thoughts are, because I know that not all Muslims beleive that everyone else is going to hell. I guess I could call myself one of them?

:sister:
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- Qatada -
07-26-2006, 01:13 PM
Asalamu 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.


"The religion before Allah is Islam." [Surah Aal-`Imran (3),19]


"Whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be among the losers" [Surah Aal-`Imran(3), 85]

"And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, for him there is the fire of Jahannam. There they will remain forever." [Surah al-Jinn (72), 23]


"Say, 'O mankind! I am the messenger of Allah to you all." [Surah al-A`raf (7), 158]



The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him and his Household) has said that even if Moses were alive on the earth today, he (Moses) would have no option but to follow him (Muhammad) [Reported by Abu Dawud]


"By [Allah] in Whose Hand is my soul! There is noone of this ummah who hears about me, Jew, or Christian, and then dies without having believed in that with which I have been sent, except that he is among the Companions of the Fire." [Sahih Muslim]


Also check this fatwa out too:


Confirmation that Judaism and Christianity are Forms of Disbelief
http://www.islaam.net/main/display.p...63&category=3]


You may want to check this link out insha'Allaah (God willing):

Hell will never cease to exist and neither will its people
http://www.islamicboard.com/418557-post5.html


Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace.
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Ghazi
07-26-2006, 01:15 PM
:sl:

There were two other ways but they have become void now, islam is the only way to have a true connection with god.
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Fishman
07-26-2006, 01:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

There were two other ways but they have become void now, islam is the only way to have a true connection with god.
:sl:
But those other ways were originally the same way.
:w:
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Ghazi
07-26-2006, 01:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
But those other ways were originally the same way.
:w:
True but they're options people take these days, the only way is through islam, I understand what your saying.
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- Qatada -
07-26-2006, 01:21 PM
:wasalamex


Islam has always been here since the beginning, when Aadam (peace be upon him) was created. Islam means submission, and being a muslim is being a submitter. Hence, we submit to the will of Allaah Almighty as muslims.

Christianity came from the name christ (also known as Jesus, peace be upon him) and the other religions did the same (i.e. named themselves after another human etc. [eg. budda - buddhism etc.]) Whereas islam means to submit ones self, and all the prophets came with islam - so that the people would submit themselves to the way of Allaah Almighty.

This is why we should only stick to islam, because we should submit to Allaah Almighty and no-one else.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


:salamext:
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Les_Nubian
07-26-2006, 01:28 PM
Thanks to all for your replies!
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scentsofjannah
07-26-2006, 10:31 PM
there are nonmuslims out there who believe in One God and worship Him alone and lead moral lives..i donot believe Allah will heap them in hellfire...i donot know how he will judge them but i do know those who have read the Qur'an and rejected it and basically said that Prophet Muhammed forged it will be punished...also those who lie about Allah and say he has a son etc.

please read this truly excellent article all of you'll find the answer there http://www.crescentlife.com/spiritua...d_and_love.htm

:w:
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Ghazi
07-26-2006, 10:34 PM
:sl:

God and worship Him alone and lead moral lives
Depends have they heard of islam, if so then they're on a path to hell-fire.
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scentsofjannah
07-26-2006, 11:07 PM
yes thats the problem ..many poeple dont know anything abou Islam..they donot have any Qur'an..so how can Allah punish them then? if they havent recieved the final message?
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Ghazi
07-26-2006, 11:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
yes thats the problem ..many poeple dont know anything abou Islam..they donot have any Qur'an..so how can Allah punish them then? if they havent recieved the final message?
Majority of the dunya have heard of islam, it's up to them to embrace it, a special test will be given to those who can honestly say they havn't ever heard of islam.
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scentsofjannah
07-26-2006, 11:18 PM
brother having heard of it isnt enough..they should research it..searching for the truth is long journey.
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scentsofjannah
07-26-2006, 11:19 PM
anyways please do read that article i posted
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Ghazi
07-26-2006, 11:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
brother having heard of it isnt enough..they should research it..searching for the truth is long journey.
Well at the end of the day if they die in a state other then islam they're in alot of trouble.
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MRR
07-26-2006, 11:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Well at the end of the day if they die in a state other then islam they're in alot of trouble.
Seems every religion makes similiar claims. I am yet to see truly convincing evidence.
(P.S. Don't bother people, unless you have something especially groundbreaking, I've heard it all before)
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Iconoclast
07-27-2006, 12:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
I am a recent "revert" to Islam, I guess you could say.

I was wondering, do you beleive that Islam is the ONLY way? Or do you beleive that there are a number of ways to connect with god or Allah? Do you beleive that Allah has set aside only one religion to communicate with "him", and to get to heaven? And if someone has never heard of Islam, then the "pen is lifted", I suppose, right?

Just wondering what your thoughts are, because I know that not all Muslims beleive that everyone else is going to hell. I guess I could call myself one of them?

:sister:
:sl:
yes sister ISLAM IS THE ONLY WAT THE UNLY RELIGION.
no one who came after the Prophet SAW can make a case that they didn't know about islam and didn't know about the message of Quran. it is simple if a man is poor he looks for a job , if is thirty he will look for water,hunger food and so one.now how can he be so ignorant as to why he was born and what is he doing with his spirit ...and everyone has a conscience that questions him and that is a gift of Allah to mankind
and yes sister ppl not following islam are going to hell , here is an artical that may help u as u r a revert and these types of questions arise. the only way to easy a unhappy and a confused heart is to read and understand the quran and the life o he prophet,
btw here is that artical hope it helps
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The True Religion

By Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips
THE RELIGION OF ISLAM

The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam is what the word "Islam" itself means. The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gotama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, and Marxism after Karl Marx. Nor was it named after a tribe like Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam is the true religion of "Allah" and as such, its name represents the central principle of Allah's "God's" religion; the total submission to the will of Allah "God". The Arabic word "Islam" means the submission or surrender of one's will to the only true god worthy of worship "Allah" and anyone who does so is termed a "Muslim", The word also implies "peace" which is the natural consequence of total submission to the will of Allah. Hence, it was not a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) I in Arabia in the seventh century, but only the true religion of Allah re-expressed in its final form.
Islam is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of Allah, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. The name of God's religion lslam was not decided upon by later generations of man. It was chosen by Allah Himself and clearly mentioned in His final revelation to man. In the final book of divine revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah states the following:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3)
"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)
"Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67)
Nowhere in the Bible will you find Allah saying to Prophet Moses' people or their descendants that their religion is Judaism, nor to the followers of Christ that their religion is Christianity. In fact, Christ was not even his name, nor was it Jesus! The name "Christ" comes from the Greek word Christos which means the annointed. That is, Christ is a Greek translation of the Hebrew title "Messiah". The name "Jesus" on the other hand, is a latinized version of the Hebrew name Esau.
For simplicity's sake, I will however continue to refer to Prophet Esau (PBUH) as Jesus. As for his religion, it was what he called his followers to. Like the prophets before him, he called the people to surrender their will to the will of Allah; (which is Islam) and he warned them to stay away from the false gods of human imagination.
According to the New Testament, he taught his followers to pray as follows: "Yours will be done on earth as it is in Heaven".

THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM

Since the total submission of one's will to Allah represents the essence of worship, the basic message of Allah's divine religion, Islam is the worship of Allah alone and the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than Allah.Since everything other than Allah, the Creator of all things, is Allah's creation; it may be said that Islam, in essence calls man away from the worship of creation and invites him to worship only its Creator. He is the only one deserving man's worship as it is only by His will that prayers are answered. If man prays to a tree and his prayers are answered, it was not the tree which answered his prayers but Allah who allowed the circumstances prayed for to take place. One might say, "That is obvious," however, to tree-worshippers it might not be. Similarly, prayers to Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna, to Saint Christopher, or Saint Jude or even to Muhammad, are not answered by them but are answered by Allah. Jesus did nottell his followers to worship him but to worship Allah. As the Qur'aan states:

"And behold Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary Did you say to men, Worship me and my mother as gods besides Allah He will say-"Glory to you I could never say what I had no right (to say')" (Soorah Al-Maa'idah- 5:116)
Nor did he worship himself when he worshipped but rather he worshipped Allah. This basic principle is enshrined in the opening chapter of the Qur'aan, known as Soorah Al-Faatihah, verse 4:

"You alone do we worship and from you alone do we seek help".
Elsewhere, in the final book of revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah also said:
"And your Lord says:"Call on Me and I will answer your(prayer)."(Soorsh Mu'min 40:60)
it is worth noting that the basic message of Islam is that Allah and His creation are distinctly different entities. Neither is Allah His creation or a part of it, nor is His creation Him or a part of Him.
This might seem obvious, but, man's worship of creation instead of the Creator is to a large degree based on ignorance of this concept. It is the belief that the essence of Allah is everywhere in His creation or that His divine being is or was present in some aspects of His creation, which has provided justification for the worship of creation though such worship maybecalled the worship of Allah through his creation. How ever, the message of Islam as brought by the prophets of Allah is to worship only Allah and to avoid the worship of his creation either directly or indirectly. In the Our'aan Allah clearlystates:

"For We assuredly sent amongst every people a prophet,(with the command) worship meand avoid false gods " (Soorsh Al-Nahl 16:36)
When the idol worshipper is questioned as to why he or she bows down to idols created by men, the invariable reply is that they are not actually worshipping the stone image, but Allah who is present within it. They claim that the stone idol is only a focal point for Allah's essence and is not in itself Allah! One who has accepted the concept of the presence of God's being within His creation in any way will be obliged to accept this argument of idolatry. Whereas, one who understands the basic message of Islam and its implications would never concede to idolatry no matter how it is rationalized. Those who have claimed divinity for themselves down through the ages have often based their claims on the mistaken belief that Allah is present in man. They merely had to assert that although Allah according to their false beliefs, is in all of us, He is more present in them than in the rest of us. Hence, they claim, we should submit our will to them and worship them as they are either God in person or God concentrated within the person.
Similarly, those who have asserted the godhood of others after their passing have found fertile ground among those who accept the false belief of God's presence in man. One who has grasped the basic message of Islam and its implications could never agree to worship another human being under any circumstances. God's religion in essence is a clear call to the worship of the Creator and the rejection of creation-worship in any form. This is the meaning of the motto of Islam:
"Laa Elaaha lllallaah" (There is no god but Allah)
Its repetition automatically brings one within the fold of Islam and sincere belief in it guarantees one Paradise.
Thus, the final Prophet of Islam is reported to have said, "Any one who says: There is no god but Allah and dies holding that (belief) will enter paradise".(Reported by Abu Dharr and collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).
It consists in the submission to Allah as one God, yielding to Him by obeying His commandments, and the denial of polytheism and polytheists.

THE MESSAGE OF FALSE RELIGION

There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements in the world, all of which claim to be the right way or the only true path to Allah. How can one determine which one is correct or if, in fact, all are correct? The method by which the answer can be found is to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identify the central object of worship to which they call, directly or indirectly. False religions all have in common one basic concept with regards to Allah. They either claim that all men are gods or that specific men were Allah or that nature is Allah or that Allah is a figment of man's imagination.
Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is that Allah may be worshipped in the form of His creation. False religion invites man to the worship of creation by calling the creation or some aspect of it God. For example, prophet Jesus invited his followers to worship Allah but those who claim to be his followers today call people to worship Jesus, claiming that he was Allah!
Buddha was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic principles to the religion of India. He did not claim to be God nor did he suggest to his followers that he be an object of worship. Yet, today most Buddhists who are to be found outside of India have taken him to be God and prostrate to idols made in their perception of his likeness.
By using the principle of identifying the object of worship, false religion becomes very obvious and the contrived nature of their origin clear. As God said in the Our'aan:
That which you worship besides Him are only names you and your forefathers have invented for which Allah has sent down no authority: The command belongs only to Allah:

He has commanded that you only worship Him; that is the right religion, but most men do not understand ". (Soorah Yoosuf 12:40)
It may be argued that all religions teach good things so why should it matter which one we follow. The reply is that all false religions teach the greatest evil, the worship of creation. Creation-worship is the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very purpose of his creation. Man was created to worship Allah alone as Allah has explicitly stated in the Our'aan:

"I have only created Jlnns and men, that they may worship me"(Soorah Zaareeyaat 51:56)
Consequently, the worship of creation, which is the essence of idolatry, is the only unforgivable sin. One who dies in this state of idolatry has sealed his fate in the next life. This is not an opinion, but a revealed fact stated by Allah in his final revelation to man:

"Verily Allah will not forgive the joining of partners with Him, but He may forgive (sins) less than that for whom so ever He wishes"(Soorah An- Nisaa 4:48 and 116)
THE UNIVERSALITY OF ISLAM

Since the consequences of false religion are so grave, the true religion of Allah must be universally understandable and attainable, not confined to any people, place or time. There can not be conditions like baptism, belief in a man, as a saviour etc., for a believer to enter paradise. Within the central principle of Islam and in its definition, (the surrender of one's will to God) lies the roots of lslam's universality. Whenever man comes to the realization that Allah is one and distinct from His creation, and submits himself to Allah, he becomes a Muslim in body and spirit and is eligible for paradise. Thus, anyone at anytime in the most remote region of the world can become a Muslim, a follower of God's religion, Islam, by merely rejecting the worship of creation and by turning to Allah (God) alone-It should be noted however, that the recognition of and submission to Allah requires that one chooses between right and wrong and such a choice implies accountability. Man will be held responsible for his choices, and, as such, he should try his utmost to do good and avoid evil. The ultimate good being the worship of Allah alone and the ultimate evil being the worship of His creation along with or instead of Allah. This fact is expressed in the final revelation as follows:

"Verily those who believe, those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), the Christians and the Sabians any who believe In Allah and the last day, and work righteousness *hall have their reward with their Lord;They will not be overcome by fear nor grief (Soorah Al-Baqarah 2:62).
If only they had stood by the law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There Is from among them a party on the right course; but many of them follow a course that Is evil.". (Soorah Al-.Maa'idah 5:66)
RECOGNITION OF ALLAH

The question which arises here is, "How can all people be expected to believe in Allah given their varying- backgrounds, societies and cultures? For people to be responsible for worshipping Allah they all have to have access to knowledge of Allah. The final revelation teaches that all mankind have the recognition of Allah imprinted on their souls, a part of their very nature with which they are created.
In Soorah Al-A'raaf, Verses 172-173; Allah explained that when He created Adam, He caused all of Adam's descendants to come into existence and took a pledge from them saying, Am I not your Lord? To which they all replied, " Yes, we testify to It:'
Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and only true God worthy of worship. He said, "That was In case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, "Verily we were unaware of all this." That is to say, we had no idea that You Allah, were our God. No one told us that we were only supposed to worship You alone. Allah went on to explain That it was also In case you should say, "Certainly It was our ancestors who made partners (With Allah) and we are only their descendants; will You then destroy us for what those liars did?" Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in Allah and an inborn inclination to worship Him alone called in Arabic the "Fitrah".
If the child were left alone, he would worship Allah in his own way, but all children are affected by those things around them, seen or unseen.
The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).
So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold him to account or punish him for this religion. Throughout people's lives from childhood until the time they die, signs are shown to them in all regions of the earth and in their own souls, until it becomes clear that there is only one true God (Allah). If the people are honest with themselves, reject their false gods and seek Allah, the way will be made easy for them but if they continually reject Allah's signs and continue to worship creation, the more difficult it will be for them to escape. For example, in the South Eastern region of the Amazon jungle in Brazil, South America, a primitive tribe erected a new hut to house their main idol Skwatch, representing the supreme God of all creation. The homage to the God, and while he was in prostration to what he had been taught was his Creator and Sustainer, a mangy old flea-ridden dog walked into the hut, The young man looked up in time to see the dog lift its hind leg and pass urine on the idol. Outraged, the youth chased the dog out of the temple, but when his rage died down he realized that the idol could not be the Lordof the universe. Allah must be elsewhere. he now had a choice to act on his knowledge and seek Allah, or to dishonestly go along with the false beliefs of his tribe. As strange as it may seem, that was a sign from Allah for that young man. It contained within it divine guidance that what he was worshipping was false.
Prophets were sent, as was earlier mentioned, to every nation and tribe to support man's natural belief in Allah and man's inborn inclination to worship Him as well as to reinforce the divine truth in the daily signs revealed by Allah. Although, in most cases, much of the prophets' teachings became distorted, portions remained which point out right and wrong. For example, the ten commandments of the Torah, their confirmation in the Gospels and the existence of laws against murder, stealing and adultery in most societies. Consequently, every soul will be held to account for its belief in Allah and its acceptance of the religion of Islam; the total submission to the will of Allah.
We pray to Allah, the exalted, to keep us on the right path to which He has guided us, and to bestow on us a blessing from Him, He is indeed the Most Merciful. Praise and gratitude be to Allah,the Lord of the worlds, and peace and blessings be on prophet Muhammed, his Family, his companions, and those who rightly follow them.
===================================
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Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 12:31 AM
Wow im guess im more peaceful then some of u because im not going to believe that my parents are going to hell sorry especially since my mom worship one God and what about the people who have no way of finding out about Islam? anyone of u seen indigenous tribes? Get out of your narrow shells already. I believe that Allah is better then most of you are claming he is to throw innocents in hell for worshiping christianity of judaism or for others who havent heard of no message of montheisits religions, maybe you will be punished for having such harsh views.
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Ghazi
07-27-2006, 01:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
Wow im guess im more peaceful then some of u because im not going to believe that my parents are going to hell sorry especially since my mom worship one God and what about the people who have no way of finding out about Islam? anyone of u seen indigenous tribes? Get out of your narrow shells already. I believe that Allah is better then most of you are claming he is to throw innocents in hell for worshiping christianity of judaism or for others who havent heard of no message of montheisits religions, maybe you will be punished for having such harsh views.
:sl:

The Prophet was forbiden to make dua for his uncle, since he never worshiped allah, like I said people who can honestly say they never heard of islam will have a special test on the day of judgment, everyone else who has heard of islam but didn't accept it will be in the fire.
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Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 01:05 AM
Wow i find u funny but in a painful way, im not gonna even go there with you, i will keep reading the Quran over and over while u twist things to suit u, thats fine with me:thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do and also from personal experience i find that those people who claim everyone else is going to hell whether Muslim or Christian are generally the ones with lots of skeletons in their closets and this is why they go around being so overly rightcheous, i will leave on that note:hiding:
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Iconoclast
07-27-2006, 01:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
Wow im guess im more peaceful then some of u because im not going to believe that my parents are going to hell sorry especially since my mom worship one God and what about the people who have no way of finding out about Islam? anyone of u seen indigenous tribes? Get out of your narrow shells already. I believe that Allah is better then most of you are claming he is to throw innocents in hell for worshiping christianity of judaism or for others who havent heard of no message of montheisits religions, maybe you will be punished for having such harsh views.
as for ur parents go what are u oingto make them realize that ISLAM is the right path,as for the tribal ppl we MUSLIMS ( Collectivly are responsible ) will be ASKED MY ALLAH where were we why didn't we spread tof ALLAH thats why the is a thing called dawa which equires Taqwa and we Muslims better wake up
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Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 01:06 AM
yea so plan on traveling alot, be my guest
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Iconoclast
07-27-2006, 01:09 AM
If Abu talib The Uncle and the protector of the prophet died a Kafir and Prophet was forbidden to make dua for his uncle, since he never worshiped Allah.

May Allah Guide us
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Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 01:10 AM
Yea but come on you cannot possibly reach everyone, can people be realistic here? or do i have to search elsewhere? maybe another planet? planet earth seems to be full of numnutz lately.
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Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 01:11 AM
anyway i just caught many of u in my trap, i talk to scholars u know and for those who dont recieve the message will be no penalty!!!! including my indignenous relatives that were living all over central america before any eurotrash came (yes and im european too!!)
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Ghazi
07-27-2006, 01:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
Wow i find u funny but in a painful way, im not gonna even go there with you, i will keep reading the Quran over and over while u twist things to suit u, thats fine with me:thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do and also from personal experience i find that those people who claim everyone else is going to hell whether Muslim or Christian are generally the ones with lots of skeletons in their closets and this is why they go around being so overly rightcheous, i will leave on that note:hiding:
:sl:

Sorry sis, I'm gonna say how it is, I'm not one of these muslims who suger-coats the deen for people I'll tell you whats what. I understand you have trouble with what I said since your parents arn't muslim, but remember it's not over till death, I too have relatives who arn't practasing and I hope they come back to the deen since a non-practasing muslim isn't a muslim, but this is why we muslims must give dawa, one of the prophets had his wife mentioned in the quran that she'd be in hell and another's son disobeyed him and died as a disbeliever, we must keep strong and remember even though were loyal to our famalies our number 1 loyalty is islam and with allah.
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Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 01:24 AM
People of the book, remember not all non muslims are going to hell and thats my point and thats that, like i said people can intepret things in a number of ways to their own liking and everyone is guilty of this so u have ur way i will have mine just i rather not be the one being cold to people. and i never sugar coat anything i tell it like it is as well and maybe im just more realistic then others and look at the whole picture not one side.
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Ghazi
07-27-2006, 01:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
People of the book, remember not all non muslims are going to hell and thats my point and thats that, like i said people can intepret things in a number of ways to their own liking and everyone is guilty of this so u have ur way i will have mine just i rather not be the one being cold to people. and i never sugar coat anything i tell it like it is as well and maybe im just more realistic then others and look at the whole picture not one side.
:sl:

The Jews and Christians living today are involved with shirk! The one sin allah will never forgive if a person doesn't repent while alive, also the Jews and Christians living today have failed to take our beloved messenger(pbuh) message to humanity and thus they're worship is null and void. Btw whats your opinion on this matter and can you provide refrence from quran?
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Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 01:35 AM
can u climb down from my back already, enough has pissed me off, goodbye, im not gonna get into anymore goodbye going to study and stop talking to people who could be just non muslims playing games for all i know just seeing how worked up they can get a reasonable person.
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Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 01:35 AM
oh yea cause they all live badly, ur really biased in a way beyond imagined.
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Iconoclast
07-27-2006, 01:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
People of the book, remember not all non muslims are going to hell and thats my point and thats that, like i said people can intepret things in a number of ways to their own liking and everyone is guilty of this so u have ur way i will have mine just i rather not be the one being cold to people. and i never sugar coat anything i tell it like it is as well and maybe im just more realistic then others and look at the whole picture not one side.
PPL of the book that follow Islamic monotheism before the prophet and never worshiped an idol , after the prophet SAW they should follow the present and the last prophet as after Quran no other book will be revealed till doom. what do u think the diff between Muslims christians and Jews today ........follow The last Prophet and Adopt to his teachings ans life life as described in the Quran
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Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 01:39 AM
This is why alf is my avator cause i cant take some people serious here and remember hes watching u with his finger
Reply

Ghazi
07-27-2006, 01:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
oh yea cause they all live badly, ur really biased in a way beyond imagined.
Biased? Hmm... Don't know what to say, it's queit clear in the quran and hadith, you as a muslim should accept that. We hear and we Obey.
Reply

sweetbanana86
07-27-2006, 01:40 AM
NO one can reaLLY say who is going to heaven or who is going to hell becuz each person will be judge accordingly And only ALLAH (swt) knows whats in our hearts
Reply

GARY
07-27-2006, 01:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

The Jews and Christians living today are involved with shirk! The one sin allah will never forgive if a person doesn't repent while alive, also the Jews and Christians living today have failed to take our beloved messenger(pbuh) message to humanity and thus they're worship is null and void. Btw whats your opinion on this matter and can you provide refrence from quran?
It is funny but I hear exactly the same thing about you guys and that as long as you don't leave islam and repent while alive, that your worship is null and void. It's the same message in most religions.
Without any proof I have to go on the evidence. In my view I see that your prophet engaged in relations with a child, and even with all the explainations offered about this (ie. it was a different time, etc), my modern day thinking won't allow me past this. So in my opinion at this point I don't feel that Islam is the way.
Reply

Ghazi
07-27-2006, 01:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by GARY
It is funny but I hear exactly the same thing about you guys and that as long as you don't leave islam and repent while alive, that your worship is null and void. It's the same message in most religions.
Without any proof I have to go on the evidence. In my view I see that your prophet engaged in relations with a child, and even with all the explainations offered about this (ie. it was a different time, etc), my modern day thinking won't allow me past this. So in my opinion at this point I don't feel that Islam is the way.
:sl:

Fair enough, your choice, every soul will earn what it desearves.
Reply

Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 01:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Fair enough, your choice, every soul will earn what it desearves.

funny how u can say fair enough to him but u and inoloclast can blatenly insult my family and act extremely rude u make me+o( +o( +o( +o( +o( +o( +o( +o(
Reply

GARY
07-27-2006, 01:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Fair enough, your choice, every soul will earn what it desearves.
I hope you are right. That would mean that alot of people who just plain didn't know what choice to make, but were good people will be rewarded.
If you are wrong on this point, and wrong on your choice, then you will fry.

For your sake, I hope you are only wrong on your choice.
Reply

sweetbanana86
07-27-2006, 01:51 AM
Okay i think some us are becoming a little heated hear, lets stop recite a surah or something and start again
Reply

Ghazi
07-27-2006, 01:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
funny how u can say fair enough to him but u and inoloclast can blatenly insult my family and act extremely rude u make me+o( +o( +o( +o( +o( +o( +o( +o(
Insult? Sister you need to claim down, firstly quote me where I insulted your family, and secondly Gary said he isn't intrested in islam, what you want me to do say? the only reason your family were mentioned is because you brought it up not me! the same goes for Garry and any other non-muslim.
Reply

Les_Nubian
07-27-2006, 01:54 AM
So, what if someone does not ever WANT to be a Muslim? Do they have to force themselves out of fear? What is the point in that? How silly is that?
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GARY
07-27-2006, 01:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
Insult? Sister you need to claim down, firstly quote me where I insulted your family, and secondly Gary said he isn't intrested in islam, what you want me to do say? the only reason your family were mentioned is because you brought it up not me! the same goes for Garry and any other non-muslim.
Actually islam-truth, that is not what I said. If I were not interested in islam, I would not be here. I said,
In my view I see that your prophet engaged in relations with a child, and even with all the explainations offered about this (ie. it was a different time, etc), my modern day thinking won't allow me past this. So in my opinion at this point I don't feel that Islam is the way.
That is different than saying I am not interested.
Reply

Ghazi
07-27-2006, 01:58 AM
:sl:

I'M RUDE HERE'S WHAT YOU HAVE SAID TO ME WHEN I'VE BEEN DISCUSSING WITH YOU.

eat feet dude
Eat poop
This is a person with rationale, u and inoclast dont seem to have any
This is why alf is my avator cause i cant take some people serious here and remember hes watching u with his finger
Also let me add the neg rep you left me which contained an insult, see I'm an adult I'll behave like one my be you should too?
Reply

GARY
07-27-2006, 01:58 AM
In Crystals defense, Islam-truth I think your approach may have been a little hard for her, considering she seems concerned for her family. Perhaps you could try a slightly more compassionate approach.
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Ghazi
07-27-2006, 01:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by GARY
Actually islam-truth, that is not what I said. If I were not interested in islam, I would not be here. I said, That is different than saying I am not interested.
You said you don't feel "Islam is the way" so I took it as you wern't intrested in becoming a muslim that's what I ment by "Not Intrested".
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GARY
07-27-2006, 02:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
You said you don't feel "Islam is the way" so I took it as you wern't intrested in becoming a muslim that's what I ment by "Not Intrested".
I understand why you would think that.
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Ghazi
07-27-2006, 02:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by GARY
In Crystals defense, Islam-truth I think your approach may have been a little hard for her, considering she seems concerned for her family. Perhaps you could try a slightly more compassioniate approach.
:sl:

Read my posts read her's see who's shown compassion I'm telling here what's what, I said there's a chance that here parents will embrace islam but all I got were insults in return and have been demonised for speaking the truth, if people can't debate in a cival way then a forum isn't the place for them, I could've easily reported here, but I have chosen not to cause I believe that issues must be discussed not hidden away.
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Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 02:02 AM
Well maybe i can get immature when im frustrated but i surely didnt say anything mean or hateful in which u said about my family thats dead, isnt talking badly about the deceased well a universal wrong? Oh i forgot hes right because hes using his own version of Islam well why didnt i know:rollseyes :hiding: :rollseyes :heated:
Reply

searchingsoul
07-27-2006, 02:06 AM
Do you beleive that Islam is the only way?

NO
Reply

Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 02:07 AM
For me yes and while i can spread the message i am in no place to judge anyone or say "your going to hell" that is not in the human beings place but i guess some people like to act like God. People really can interpret a beautiful thing negatively.
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GARY
07-27-2006, 02:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Read my posts read her's see who's shown compassion I'm telling here what's what, I said there's a chance that here parents will embrace islam but all I got were insults in return and have been demonised for speaking the truth, if people can't debate in a cival way then a forum isn't the place for them, I could've easily reported here, but I have chosen not to cause I believe that issues must be discussed not hidden away.
Fair enough. I see what you are saying, I just think considering her emotion for her family she might be treated with a slightly more gentle approach. I realize what you are saying about the forum and it's purpose, it just should not be an excuse for being callous. (not to say you were intentionally being callous)
PS. Sorry, I missed the part about the insult in the neg rep.
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Les_Nubian
07-27-2006, 02:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
Wow im guess im more peaceful then some of u because im not going to believe that my parents are going to hell sorry especially since my mom worship one God and what about the people who have no way of finding out about Islam? anyone of u seen indigenous tribes? Get out of your narrow shells already. I believe that Allah is better then most of you are claming he is to throw innocents in hell for worshiping christianity of judaism or for others who havent heard of no message of montheisits religions, maybe you will be punished for having such harsh views.
I know, right?

My mother is not a Muslim. Nor is my father. A lot of people in my family are not Muslim!

Am I supposed to believe that my mother and father, and sisters and brothers and friends are all going to hell if the world ends tomorrow and they don't convert? All of them are not going to convert, I'm sorry! How is "heaven" really "heaven" if I know that my family and friends are suffering?!!! And all for not converting to ONE religion!

So I guess that Allah makes exceptions for little babies, and people who are mentally retarded, or little children in other countries where they don't learn about Islam, etcetera...

But only if you've HEARD about Islam, and reject it, then you're going to hell? So what if you're confused about what to follow, and you're a very skeptic person? Like I was, and still am. What if you don't just read something and believe it just because someone else says it's true? What if you're not gullable? What if you want proof to find out for yourself? What if you're confused about which choice to make? Or what if you're just plain not interested?

What if you find a way of life for yourself that is much more comfortable and suitable for you than trying to force yourself to believe something that you know everything in your heart and very being goes against? Out of fear?

I don't have the right to condemn other people. It's not my place at all.
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Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 02:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
I know, right?

My mother is not a Muslim. Nor is my father. A lot of people in my family are not Muslim!

Am I supposed to believe that my mother and father, and sisters and brothers and friends are all going to hell if the world ends tomorrow and they don't convert? All of them are not going to convert, I'm sorry! How is "heaven" really "heaven" if I know that my family and friends are suffering?!!! And all for not converting to ONE religion!

So I guess that Allah makes exceptions for little babies, and people who are mentally retarded, or little children in other countries where they don't learn about Islam, etcetera...

But only if you've HEARD about Islam, and reject it, then you're going to hell? So what if you're confused about what to follow, and you're a very skeptic person? Like I was, and still am. What if you don't just read something and believe it just because someone else says it's true? What if you're not gullable? What if you want proof to find out for yourself? What if you're confused about which choice to make? Or what if you're just plain not interested?

What if you find a way of life for yourself that is much more comfortable and suitable for you than trying to force yourself to believe something that you know everything in your heart and very being goes against? Out of fear?

I don't have the right to condemn other people. It's not my place at all.

I felt like u did at one time and still have questions occasionaly but agree with what u said i have even spoken to scholars who have more reasonalbe viewpoints then people on this forum and dont think this way, like i repeated many times 10 people can read the Quran and all intepret things differently about the Christians, Jews and polytheists and stuff. But sorry i dont believe that all non muslims are going to hell just as i dont believe that all muslims will go to heaven cause i sure know some lousy ones that cheat, steal murder do drugs etc, so i will leave this thread at that.
Reply

Ghazi
07-27-2006, 02:16 AM
:sl:

scholars
Which scholars?
Reply

sweetbanana86
07-27-2006, 02:16 AM
you know we should all do, take a breath

okay to be honest I think as long as we live our lives as if There is a God , Allah, then we are all okay but the proverb says

" I RATHER LIVE MY LIFE BELIEVING THERE IS A GOD AND FIND OUT THERE IS NOT ONE, THAN TO LIVE MY LIFE, LIKE THERE IS NOT A GOD, AND FIND OUT THAT THERE IS"

IT GOES SOMETHING LIKE THAT BUT YOU GET MY POINT
Reply

GARY
07-27-2006, 02:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
But only if you've HEARD about Islam, and reject it, then you're going to hell? So what if you're confused about what to follow, and you're a very skeptic person? Like I was, and still am. What if you don't just read something and believe it just because someone else says it's true? What if you're not gullable? What if you want proof to find out for yourself? What if you're confused about which choice to make?
Ah, the very core of the problem for people with a fact driven mind (my problem). We require proof. It is difficult to just accept. No religion seems to fit because none have proof.
God blesses us with this logical mind. Should we then be punished for the inability to accept things that we cannot back with logic? I think that would be cruel. Is God cruel?
Reply

Les_Nubian
07-27-2006, 02:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweetbanana86
you know we should all do, take a breath

okay to be honest I think as long as we live our lives as if There is a God , Allah, then we are all okay but the proverb says

" I RATHER LIVE MY LIFE BELIEVING THERE IS A GOD AND FIND OUT THERE IS NOT ONE, THAN TO LIVE MY LIFE, LIKE THERE IS NOT A GOD, AND FIND OUT THAT THERE IS"

IT GOES SOMETHING LIKE THAT BUT YOU GET MY POINT
I like that quote/proverb, I totally agree.
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snakelegs
07-27-2006, 02:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MRR
Seems every religion makes similiar claims. I am yet to see truly convincing evidence.
(P.S. Don't bother people, unless you have something especially groundbreaking, I've heard it all before)
actually, this isn't true. as far as i know these claims are unique to islam and christianity.
Reply

Looking4Peace
07-27-2006, 02:22 AM
yay i found out how to block people this is so great i have to many more to go lol about 10 people that make me squirm do u hear that islam truth i can no longer see ur posts the joy
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GARY
07-27-2006, 02:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sweetbanana86
you know we should all do, take a breath

okay to be honest I think as long as we live our lives as if There is a God , Allah, then we are all okay but the proverb says

" I RATHER LIVE MY LIFE BELIEVING THERE IS A GOD AND FIND OUT THERE IS NOT ONE, THAN TO LIVE MY LIFE, LIKE THERE IS NOT A GOD, AND FIND OUT THAT THERE IS"

IT GOES SOMETHING LIKE THAT BUT YOU GET MY POINT
My logic allows me to accept this, just not to accept any one religion.
Reply

Les_Nubian
07-27-2006, 02:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by GARY
Ah, the very core of the problem for people with a fact driven mind (my problem). We require proof. It is difficult to just accept. No religion seems to fit because none have proof.
God blesses us with this logical mind. Should we then be punished for the inability to accept things that we cannot back with logic? I think that would be cruel. Is God cruel?
I agree with you here, and I would hope that God is not cruel. :hiding:
Reply

sweetbanana86
07-27-2006, 02:25 AM
Fair Enough

And Like Tupac Says," Only God Can Judge Me"

Do You Know Tupac, He's Not Dead, He Is Actually In Africa But Keep That Between Me And You
Reply

Ghazi
07-27-2006, 02:26 AM
:sl:

Well since the sister has blocked me can someone be so kind on to pass this on to her, tell here on the day of judgement there will be justice so if she keeps the insults going, I'll be collecting from her account I have forgiven here for what she said to me already but if she keeps going knowing I don't know, tell here allah does, I think it's just fair she knows.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
07-27-2006, 04:43 AM
:sl:
First, yes Islam is the one way ordained by God for creation (tafseer of some verses on this issue here).

Second, the issue of "what happens to non-muslims?" is by-far the most frequently repeated aqîdah issue on the forum. I wish people would use the search facility. Please see the links provided here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/270362-post11.html
Basically the scholars have established that one must recieve the Islamic message properly before they are held accountable for it. We cannot make judgements about individual people, that is Allah's job, not ours. What we do know is that Allah swt is most Just in His judgements and He does not punish anyone except those who deserve it due to their evil. So everyone will be judged according to their circumstances and situation.


:w:
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Iconoclast
07-27-2006, 07:50 AM
:brother:
I never meant to insult :sister: Crystal4Peace vbmenu_register("postmenu_421328", true); 's family i say as to what i have read and what knowledge is given to me by Allah SWT and his Messenger SAW .
i cannot mince words and be cheesy i had/have to live this life as Allah made me and i tried but cant be that way and please all with a fake smile and....whatever
if u felt that it was insulting and if i did hurt u than i apologise to u as u are a muslima not to mention what u said rudly i have forgiven as i have to move on.
but what i would suggest again is for u to convince ur parents and WE as Muslims have a duty that is DAWAH .

:w: :sister: :brother:
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searchingsoul
07-27-2006, 08:02 AM
I refuse to believe in a God who creates people who will NEVER be exposed to a "chosen" religion and cast them to hell, or diminish their lives in heaven.

I honestly think I'd rather go to hell.
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Iconoclast
07-27-2006, 08:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I refuse to believe in
a God
there is only one true god ALLAH SWT
who creates people who will NEVER be exposed to a "chosen" religion
No one will have an excuse on the day of ressurection

and cast them to hell, or diminish their lives in heaven.
that is his choice

I honestly think I'd rather go to hell
This is your choice.
May Allah Guide one and all to Paradise.
Ameen
:w:
Reply

searchingsoul
07-27-2006, 08:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast
May Allah Guide one and all to Paradise.
Ameen
:w:

I don't like your definition of God. I'm still confident that both of us have equal opportunity to experience heaven.

May I ask why no one will have the excuse of not knowing God according to Islam on the day of resurrection?

A God that would create people just to see them burn in hell is evil. Isn't being evil a human trait, not Godly trait?
Reply

khalid zaheer
07-27-2006, 08:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Depends have they heard of islam, if so then they're on a path to hell-fire.
Assalaam o alaikum

Then what is "Islam" in your eye?

Allah hafiz
Reply

GARY
07-27-2006, 08:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I don't like your definition of God. I'm still confident that both of us have equal opportunity to experience heaven.
A God that would create people just to see them burn in hell is evil. Isn't being evil a human trait, not Godly trait?
I hope you are right for the sake of many good people, about the equal opportunity to go to heaven.
It just does not seem possible to me that God would create mankind just to condemn the vaste majority. That would be cruel. I don't believe it is possible from God that created the beauty of life.
Reply

Iconoclast
07-27-2006, 08:43 AM
[quote=searchingsoul;421589]
I don't like your definition of God
. what is it that u dont like .that there is just one god and he almight is Allah Swt
I'm still confident that both of us have equal opportunity to experience heaven.
sure by his mercy and our deeds

May I ask why no one will have the excuse of not knowing God according to Islam on the day of resurrection?
sir what do u do when ur hungry,thirsty,sweating ,dirty? there is a thing called concions that is a gift from the almighty that pokes us in the heart and makes u think why am i born , why do i worship, who is god? what is my reason of life........its that and u know it.
so anyone who has heard of ISLAM and The Messenger SAW has to research ( and that is instictive just like watching the news and wanting to know more ... human nature )

A God that would create people just to see them burn in hell is evil. Isn't being evil a human trait, not Godly trait?
Now allah did not make man to put them in hell you need to read the quran .......and if Allah guides me i will post a refrence to it as it is a long topic yet short and simple is ****an guides a man to hell to burn with him by making them disbelife the ayas and proofs and the oneness of Allah Aza Wa Jal .
Reply

khalid zaheer
07-27-2006, 09:40 AM
assalaam o alaikum

"Iconoclast" I have read this name before, I think in understanding-islam forums, am I right?

so anyone who has heard of ISLAM
and who has not heard what for?

Allah hafiz
Reply

Mohsin
07-27-2006, 09:43 AM
Yes islam is the only, more than one way can not be possible. there is one God, and believeing in an all oerfect God means he can not change his mind, err and make mistakes. ie We either came from Adam and Eve or we didn't, either jesus is the son of God and sole path to salvation, or he is not the son of God. There is obnly one way to god, one way of life, one religion, contradicting ways to God suggest God lied or changed his mind, which is impossible, and i firmly believe islam is the only way to god
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Ayesha Rana
07-27-2006, 09:45 AM
Masha'Allah well said Brother.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
07-27-2006, 10:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I don't like your definition of God. I'm still confident that both of us have equal opportunity to experience heaven.
Hukmai ander sabh ko bahri Hukam na koyi. Nanak Hukmai je bujhai ta hayumai kahai na koyi:

Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond It. O Nanak


So indeed we shall all experience Heaven as we follow what he introduced to each one of us! :)
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
07-27-2006, 10:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mohsin
Yes islam is the only, more than one way can not be possible. there is one God, and believeing in an all oerfect God means he can not change his mind, err and make mistakes. ie We either came from Adam and Eve or we didn't, either jesus is the son of God and sole path to salvation, or he is not the son of God. There is obnly one way to god, one way of life, one religion, contradicting ways to God suggest God lied or changed his mind, which is impossible, and i firmly believe islam is the only way to god
If the Kuran says Moses/Jesus were prophets before Mohammed then why do you not convert to Judasim/Christianity as this is obviously the correct path as it's mentioned in the Kuran?
Reply

Ghazi
07-27-2006, 10:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by khalid zaheer
Assalaam o alaikum

Then what is "Islam" in your eye?

Allah hafiz
:sl:

Those who follow the command's of allah and follow the sunnah of the prophet.
Reply

i_m_tipu
07-27-2006, 10:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by GARY
I hope you are right for the sake of many good people, about the equal opportunity to go to heaven.
It just does not seem possible to me that God would create mankind just to condemn the vaste majority. That would be cruel. I don't believe it is possible from God that created the beauty of life.
hi GARY
welcome 2 the forum

GOD's unexplained thought can not understand by us.
if not we create our own GOD(God Forbid me)

we must not forget we are created
we just see and think on our abilities

it might not be good practise to guess
what GOD might do and what not.
or What God should do and what not.

better to use God knows best
Reply

Iconoclast
07-27-2006, 10:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
If the Kuran says Moses/Jesus were prophets before Mohammed then why do you not convert to Judasim/Christianity as this is obviously the correct path as it's mentioned in the Kuran?
Every prophet that came after the earlier was a successor to him , and with the last prophet SAW was the imam al abiya leader of the earlier prophets in payer so automatically it implies in Fact in the world and the hereafter
Reply

i_m_tipu
07-27-2006, 10:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ayesha Rana
_____________________________
I've got plans for CGO's birthday.
CGO's...
what does that mean
Reply

Fishman
07-27-2006, 11:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
If the Kuran says Moses/Jesus were prophets before Mohammed then why do you not convert to Judasim/Christianity as this is obviously the correct path as it's mentioned in the Kuran?
:sl:
Reasons why muslims believe that Christianity should not be followed:
1. The Quran was revealed after the Injeel and the other books, so it abborgates them.

2. The Bible is not the same as the Injeel, but is a corrupted version of it, full of false prophecies made by corrupt writers in order to motivate people, false doctrines created by power-hungry Bishops, and popular myths and legends that were added in by story-tellers in order to explain miraculous verses about science, history and technology that they didn't understand properly.
:w:
Reply

- Qatada -
07-27-2006, 12:55 PM
:salamext:


Islam is the only way, because Allaah Almighty says:


"The religion before Allah is Islam." [Surah Aal-`Imran (3),19]


"Whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be among the losers" [Surah Aal-`Imran(3), 85]


And we believe that Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is the final Messenger of Allaah. Hence, we obey him to get closer to Allaah.


Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 3:31)



Thread Closed.
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