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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 01:47 AM
i don't have any thing to say more than what I have seen over the news..
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afriend
07-31-2006, 01:49 AM
Huh?

Vote where?
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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 01:54 AM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Huh?

Vote where?
sorry i meant the poll
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imaad_udeen
07-31-2006, 01:56 AM
This is unbelievable.

The question doesn't even deserved to be answered.
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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 01:58 AM
Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
This is unbelievable.

The question doesn't even deserved to be answered.
Then don't ansewr, no body have forced you
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snakelegs
07-31-2006, 01:58 AM
lamaggad,
i did not bother to answer your poll because i think your question is absurd.
i do not and will not argue with you over this point. just thought i would let you know why 1 person did not vote.
i have nothing but condemnatiion for what israel is doing right now and the fact that the u.s. refuses to demand an immediate cease fire.
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afriend
07-31-2006, 02:00 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
lamaggad,
i did not bother to answer your poll because i think your question is absurd.
i do not and will not argue with you over this point. just thought i would let you know why 1 person did not vote.
i have nothing but condemnatiion for what israel is doing right now and the fact that the u.s. refuses to demand an immediate cease fire.
Yeah..I agree with you...But don't you think that Israel are going a bit nazi over this?
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snakelegs
07-31-2006, 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Yeah..I agree with you...But don't you think that Israel are going a bit nazi over this?
absolutely! this is why i said i have nothing but condemnation for what israel is doing and the u.s. refusal to demand a cease fire.
but no, i don't think they're going a bit nazi.
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afriend
07-31-2006, 02:11 AM
Oh come on.....'Exterminate' hizbullah......It's sounding a bit hitler if u ask me...
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Dahir
07-31-2006, 02:15 AM
Oh, I've stepped into the eXtreme poll.

Israel isn't totally Nazi, but it did borrow a few techniques and secrets from old Adolf.
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Keltoi
07-31-2006, 03:02 AM
absurd.
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Looking4Peace
07-31-2006, 03:12 AM
just as absurd as letting that wolf there lick ur hand and expecting him not to bite
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Keltoi
07-31-2006, 03:16 AM
Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
just as absurd as letting that wolf there lick ur hand and expecting him not to bite
Sorry, but I fail to understand the analogy.
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anis_z24
07-31-2006, 03:38 AM
Salam,

The Ummah is loosing just as the Muslims did in Uhud. Because the aren't obaying the Allah correctly. In Uhud when the Muslims didn't listen to the Prophet(PBUH) the lost(not really but the suffered a lot because of it, even when it was over)

so the Ummah has been in this situation for around 200 years.
and if we feel that this needs to be changed then we start obaying.
so this is partly our fault. But also Allah will hold the transgressors responsible who ever they are.
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mlsh27
07-31-2006, 05:16 AM
Huge difference between Hitler and Isreal..come on, lamaggad, are you serious?
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SirZubair
07-31-2006, 07:43 AM
As Martin Luther King would do...

..ask the question "Is it really us that are the opressors?"

I am not saying we are,..but just something to think about.. :brother:
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AvarAllahNoor
07-31-2006, 11:00 AM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Yeah..I agree with you...But don't you think that Israel are going a bit nazi over this?
Well no, it's not like they've set up concentration camps (not to my knowledge) and they aren't trying to eradicate the lebonese people just Hizbullah! (not that they can eradicate them)

Don't forget what some may perceive to be terrorists, others percieve them to be freedom fighters! :)
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afriend
07-31-2006, 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Well no, it's not like they've set up concentration camps (not to my knowledge) and they aren't trying to eradicate the lebonese people just Hizbullah! (not that they can eradicate them)

Don't forget what some may perceive to be terrorists, others percieve them to be freedom fighters! :)
Hmmm.....The first paragraphs are highly questionable.......very highly.....

That last quote from some wise man is just priceless ;)
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j4763
07-31-2006, 12:45 PM
Hmm, Hitler was responsible for an estimated 60 million deaths, anyone know how many deaths Israel are responsible for :?
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imran_c
07-31-2006, 01:13 PM
as-salam alaykum

well theres a massive consciparcy did hitler even commit all them mascres or was it just an illusion so the jews can get there own state?

wa-salam alaykum
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AvarAllahNoor
07-31-2006, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by j4763
Hmm, Hitler was responsible for an estimated 60 million deaths, anyone know how many deaths Israel are responsible for :?
Just counting....:wink:
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AvarAllahNoor
07-31-2006, 01:46 PM
Originally Posted by imran_c
as-salam alaykum

well theres a massive consciparcy did hitler even commit all them mascres or was it just an illusion so the jews can get there own state?

wa-salam alaykum
You deny the holocaust? :rollseyes

Are the lebonese really being killed or is it an illusion...
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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by mlsh27
Huge difference between Hitler and Isreal..come on, lamaggad, are you serious?
Yeah you are right, they aren't the same, actually Hitler is an angel compared to those cowards.

They are much worse than Hitler.
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Muezzin
07-31-2006, 02:28 PM
Once Israel starts seeking out and killing every single Arab civilian, without remorse or even any excuse to the international community, then I'll compare Israel to Hitler.

As it is, yes, I do believe that what Israel has been doing recently is very wrong, and our duas should go to the Lebanese people and for peace. To equate Israel with a genocidal maniac is a bit much though.
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 02:30 PM
Is this poll a result of that building collapsing in Qana? Do you realize that the building fell 2 HOURS after Israel bombed the area? Reports are coming out now that there was a second explosion that was thought to be an ammunition depot located in the building. Why would you put munitions in a building with women and children? That's more Hitler like to me.

I also invoke Godwin's Law:

Godwin's Law
/prov./ [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups
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guyabano
07-31-2006, 02:59 PM
Completely disagree ! Israel has also a right to exist ! ... and has noting to do with Hitler !
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AvarAllahNoor
07-31-2006, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Once Israel starts seeking out and killing every single Arab civilian, without remorse or even any excuse to the international community, then I'll compare Israel to Hitler.

As it is, yes, I do believe that what Israel has been doing recently is very wrong, and our duas should go to the Lebanese people and for peace. To equate Israel with a genocidal maniac is a bit much though.
Nice to see a mod not jumping on the bandwagon :)
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AvarAllahNoor
07-31-2006, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
Completely disagree ! Israel has also a right to exist ! ... and has noting to do with Hitler !
We all have a right to exist! - They say the pulling out of Gaza by isreal was not a consession but a right issued by the intertnational community as they were illegally ocuppying arab land! So in reality they are only after what belongs to them to begin with, no?
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S_87
07-31-2006, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
Completely disagree ! Israel has also a right to exist ! ... and has noting to do with Hitler !
:sl:

yup so does afghanistan under taliban
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fou_lafine
07-31-2006, 04:00 PM
my answer is agree :D :D :D
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adi8putra
07-31-2006, 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Well no, it's not like they've set up concentration camps (not to my knowledge) and they aren't trying to eradicate the lebonese people just Hizbullah! (not that they can eradicate them)

Don't forget what some may perceive to be terrorists, others percieve them to be freedom fighters! :)
atlast, i've heard something impartial from u! fair observation dude! way 2 go! ;D
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searchingsoul
07-31-2006, 04:29 PM
I find this laughable.
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I find this laughable.
I would too if it wasn't so sad
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scentsofjannah
07-31-2006, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by Geronimo
I also invoke Godwin's Law:

Godwin's Law
/prov./ [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups

Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing but not of genocide yet..i totally agree with Ran HaCohen when he says in his article linked below
'the way from mass-deportation to mass-murder is a dangerously short one, and that every Jew, including those calling for "transfer", should be aware of that.'

Ethnic Cleansing: Past, Present and Future
http://www.antiwar.com/hacohen/h123002.html

Ethnic Cleansing: Some Common Reactions http://www.antiwar.com/hacohen/h011303.html

I also think this is worth a read considering the topic of this thread.

Tommy’s Granny

By: Uri Avnery*

Sometimes a person “buys his world in one moment,” as the ancient Hebrew saying goes. This was done by the Minister of Justice, Yosef (“Tommy”) Lapid, when he uttered the words: “This old woman reminds me of my grandmother!”

This old woman, an inhabitant of the Rafah refugee camp whose house was demolished by the Israeli army, was immortalized by the camera while rummaging through the ruins of her home in a desperate search for her medicines. Two days later, journalists found her at the same place, still looking for her medicines under the debris.

Tommy’s grandmother perished in the Holocaust. He himself was born in a Hungarian region in the north of Yugoslavia and survived the Holocaust in the Budapest ghetto. When he mentioned “my grandmother”, it was quite clear that he meant a victim of the Holocaust.

The phrase kicked up a storm. It may well have been the straw that broke the camel’s back and induced the government to call a halt to the ongoing atrocity in Rafah.

Of course, the situation was ripe for that. The pictures of the killing and destruction in the poor town filled the TV news bulletins and newspaper pages throughout the world. The Al Jazeera TV station showed them several times every hour to tens of millions in the Arab world. In the Western world, too, the screens were full of them. The accumulated impact was terrible – the Israeli army was shown as an inhuman machine that destroyed the lives of hundreds of families without even noticing. The picture of a small boy struggling with a huge suitcase in an attempt to save some of his family’s belongings says more than a thousands words of the official army liar.

The tank that was filmed shooting at unarmed protesters, who marched and clapped their hands in unison, brought the glass to overflowing. The pretexts and explanations by the official propaganda mercenaries only made things worse. One could sense the world shuddering.

But the military and political leadership was action-drunk. They announced that the operation would continue on an even larger scale. Forces amounting to a reinforced army division were concentrated to deliver the coup de grace to Rafah. The intention – as testified by Lapid himself – was to demolish 3000 homes.

It seems that the Americans were active behind the scenes. George Bush is having enough trouble with Iraq. His policy is collapsing. The pictures from Rafah blackened still further the image of the Americans, Sharon’s friends and partners, in the eyes of the Iraqis, whose heart goes out to the Palestinians. For the first time, the US representative abstained from vetoing a Security Council resolution criticizing Israel (even if in ridiculously moderate language). Undoubtedly, telephone conversations were held in basic American, rebuking Sharon much more harshly.

Inside Israel, too, the opposition gathered momentum. Day after day the radical peace organizations (almost alone, unfortunately) confronted the police in the cities and even broke through a roadblock on the border to the Gaza Strip. The Israeli media could not ignore these demonstrations anymore and grudgingly devoted some seconds to them. (Al Jazeera showed them for ten minutes, repeated again and again).

In the country’s leadership the conviction gained ground that the military operation was a dismal failure. Apart from satisfying the thirst for revenge, no actual objective was achieved. Some tunnels were indeed discovered (two according to one version, four according to another) – but, for that, a few companies would have been enough. The “wanted” men got out of the area when they saw the preparations for the gigantic operation. The division sowed death and destruction without achieving anything.

In this situation, Lapid’s utterance broke the dam. The action was stopped in the middle.

As could be expected, rightists attacked Lapid violently. How dare he offend the memory of the Holocaust victims? How can one make such a comparison? This is a vile manipulation by Lapid of his being a Holocaust survivor! (In Israel, it is customary that only rightists have the right to warn of a Second Holocaust, so they can compare Arafat to Hitler and the Palestinians to the Nazis.)

Lapid tried desperately to defend himself. He had no intention of making a comparison, God forbid. He had not mentioned the Holocaust at all. Besides, his second grandmother did survive the Holocaust.

So why did he utter the words in the first place? Cynics found many explanations: Lapid is a masterful demagogue. For years he has appeared in a TV talk-show and become famous for his abusive attacks on leftists, Arabs, orthodox Jews, oriental Jews and poor people. One remembers, for example, an unemployed blond woman who appeared on his talk-show and complained about her miserable circumstances. Lapid interrupted her rudely: “So where did you get the money to dye your hair?”

According to the cynics, Lapid feels that the wind is changing and so he is adapting himself. He wants to prove that he is not Sharon’s poodle, as many believe. He wants to shake off his responsibility for the atrocities committed by the Sharon government.

All this may well be true, but I feel that the phrase about the grandmother escaped him in a moment of real agitation, without calculation. Underneath all the diverse strata of Lapid’s personality, the woman in Rafah touched the deepest of all. Buried beneath the politician and the TV entertainer there is the child from the Holocaust, and it is he that broke through at that moment.

There are moments in the life of a human being, when his most hidden quality is exposed, free from interests and calculations. I believe this is what happened at that moment.

The influence of the Holocaust on the character of the survivors, their children and children’s children, is a complex phenomenon. Once, a high-school principal gave me the compositions written by his pupils, boys and girls, after a visit to Auschwitz. The reactions divided into two groups.

Most of the pupils wrote something like: “After seeing what the Nazis did to the Jews, my conclusion is that the defense of Israel and the Jewish people is the highest commandment, and for this end, everything is permitted. ( im sure Geronimo, guyabano, Joe, Keltoi, Heigou , searchingsoul, etc agree with this bunch of kids)

A minority of the pupils wrote something like: “After seeing what the Nazis did to the Jews, my conclusion is that the Jewish State must be more humane than any other and set an example of how to behave towards minorities, so that this can never happen again.” :thumbs_up (I'm sure the rest of us sane, humane people with a conscience agree with these kids, May God guide them, protect them, and make people like them to be the mainstream of Israeli society) ameen

It seems that in the heart of Tommy Lapid both these reactions exist side by side. In ordinary times, the first reaction manifests itself in his behavior. But it must be said in his favor that, in a moment of truth, a moment of profound agitation, the second reaction got the upper hand.

“Tommy’s grandmother” became a symbol this week. Let’s hope that it becomes a signpost.

* An Israeli author and activist. He is the head of the Israeli peace movement, "Gush Shalom".
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 05:01 PM
How are they going about ethnic cleansing when there's actually over a million Arabs leaving inside of Israel? Outside of the ghettos how many Jews had free range within Germany? Think people before you make these comparisons.
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lavikor201
07-31-2006, 05:11 PM
This thread is pathetic.

The fact that someone can compare Israel with Hitler points to how foolish and unknowledgable of history they are.

Hitler is the face of evil, and the fact that anyone is comparing him to Israel is atrocious. Hitler makes Israel look like the Peace Corps, and Hezbollah like the local candy man.
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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
This thread is pathetic.

The fact that someone can compare Israel with Hitler points to how foolish and unknowledgable of history they are.
Thank you
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scentsofjannah
07-31-2006, 05:47 PM
A dose of History is needed for some members of this forum who even deny ethnic cleansing happened in the Holy Land

"The armies of the Arab states entered the war immediately after the State of Israel was founded in May. Fighting continued, almost all of it within the territory assigned to the Palestinian state …About 700,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled in the 1948 conflict."

Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."



Expulsion of the Arab population of Palestine

"Joseph Weitz was the director of the Jewish National Land Fund… On December 19, 1940, he wrote: ‘It must be clear that there is no room for both peoples in this country… The Zionist enterprise so far… has been fine and good in its own time, and could do with ‘land buying’ – but this will not bring about the state of Israel; that must come all at once, in the manner of a salvation (this is the secret of the Messianic idea); and there is no way besides transferring the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries, to transfer them all; except maybe for Bethlehem, Nazareth and Old Jerusalem, we must not leave a single village, not as single tribe’…There were literally hundreds of such statements made by Zionists."

Palestinian Christian ,Edward Said , in "The Question of Palestine."
Expulsion – continued


"Ben- Gurion clearly wanted as few Arabs as possible to remain in the Jewish state. He hoped to see them flee. He said as much to his colleagues and aides in meetings in August, September and October [1948]. But no [general] expulsion policy was ever enunciated and Ben-Gurion always refrained from issuing clear or written expulsion orders; he preferred that his generals ‘understand’ what he wanted done. He wished to avoid going down in history as the ‘great expeller’ and he did not want the Israeli government to be implicated in a morally questionable policy…But while there was no ‘expulsion policy’, the July and October [1948] offensives were characterized by far more expulsions and, indeed, brutality towards Arab civilians than the first half of the war."

Benny Morris, "The Birth of the
Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949.



Didn’t the Palestinians leave their homes voluntarily during the 1948 war?

"Israeli propaganda has largely relinquished the claim that the Palestinian exodus of 1948 was ‘self-inspired’. Official circles implicitly concede that the Arab population fled as a result of Israeli action – whether directly, as in the case of Lydda and Ramleh, or indirectly, due to the panic that and similar actions (the Deir Yassin massacre) inspired in Arab population centers throughout Palestine. However, even though the historical record has been grudgingly set straight, the Israeli establishment still refuses to accept moral or political responsibility for the refugee problem it – or its predecessors – actively created."

Peretz Kidron, quoted in "Blaming The Victims,"
ed. Said and Hitchens.


Arab orders to evacuate nonexistent

"The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) monitored all Middle Eastern broadcasts throughout 1948 was ‘self-inspired’. The records, and companion ones by a United States monitoring unit, can be seen at the British museum… There was not a single order or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine, from any Arab radio station, inside or outside Palestine, in 1948. There is a repeated monitored record of Arab appeals, even flat orders, to the civilians of Palestine to stay put."

Erskine Childers, British researcher,
quoted in Sami Hadawi, Biter Harvest




Expulsion – continued

"That Ben Gurion`s ultimate aim was to evacuate as much of the Arab population as possible from the Jewish state can hardly be doubted, if only from the variety of means he employed to achieve this purpose…most decisively, the destruction of whole villages and the eviction of their inhabitants …even [if] they had not participated in the war and had stayed in Israel hoping to live in peace and equality, as promised in the Declaration of Independence."

Israeli author, Sinha Flapan, "The Birth Of Israel"



The Deliberate destruction of Arab villages to prevent return of Palestinians

"During May [1948], ideas about how to consolidate and give permeance to the Palestinian exile began to crystallize, and the destruction of villages was immediately perceived as a primary means of achieving this aim…[Even earlier’]

On 10 April, Haganah units took Abu Shusha…The village was destroyed that night…Khulda was leveled by Jewish bulldozers on April 20…Abu Zureiq was completely demolished…By mid- 1949, the majority of the [350 depopulated Arab villages] were either completely or partly in ruins and uninhabitable."

Benny Morris, "The Birth of the
Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949.




After the fighting was over, why didn’t the Palestinians return to their homes?

"The first UN General Assembly resolution – number 194- affirming the right of Palestinians to return to their homes and property, was passed on December, 19948. It had been repassed no less than twenty-eight times since the first date. Whereas the moral and political right of a person to return to his place on uninterrupted residence is acknowledged everywhere, Israel has negated the possibility of return…[and] systematically and juridically made it impossible, on any grounds whatever, for the Arab Palestinian to return, be compensated for his property, or live in Israel as a citizen equal before the law with a Jewish Israeli.

Edward Said, "The Question of Palestine."



Is there any justification for this expropriation of land?

"The fact that the Arabs fled in terror, because of real fear of a repetition of 1948 Zionist massacres, is no reason for denying them their homes, fields and livelihoods. Civilians caught in an area of military activity generally panic. But they have always been able to return to their homes when the danger subsides. Military conquest does not abolish private rights to property; nor does it entitle the victor to confiscate the homes, property and personal belongings of the noncombatant civilian population. The seizure of Arab property by the Israeli’s was an outrage."

Sami Hadawi, "Bitter Harvest."


How about the negotiations after the 1948-1949 wars?

"[At Lausanne,] Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and the Palestinians were trying to save by negotiations what they had lost in the war- a Palestinian state alongside Israel. Israel however…[preferred] tenuous armistice agreements to a definite peace that would involve territorial concessions and the repatriation of even a token number of refugees. The refusal to recognize the Palestinians’ right to self-determination and statehood proved over the years to be the main source of the turbulence, violence, and bloodshed that came to pass."

Israeli author, Sinmah Flapan, "The Birth of Israel."


information courtesy of http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/jewsfjustice.cfm for more also click on this link
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scentsofjannah
07-31-2006, 05:51 PM
Interesting quotes about Ethnic Cleansing of the Arabs

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969.

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"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979

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David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

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"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"

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"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

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"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.

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"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves .. politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. ... Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
(David Ben-Gurion, 1938)

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"Ours will be a brutal land of pens stretching between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean that will make South African apartheid pale."
(Yigal Bronner, 17 September 2003)


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Voices of reason and goodwill


"[T]here is no single fixed method for murder and not even for genocide. The author Y. L. Peretz wrote about "the righteous cat" who does not spill blood, but only suffocates. The government of Israel, using the military and its instruments of destruction, is not only spilling blood, but it is also suffocating. ... Of course with our self-righteousness, with our self-adoration in our "Jewish ethics" we make sure to advertise how beautifully the doctors take care of Palestinian victims in the hospitals. We do not advertise how many of those are executed in cold blood in their own homes. So it's not yet genocide of the terrible and unique style of which we were past victims. And as one of the smart Generals told me, we do not have crematoria and gas chambers. Is anything less than that consistent with Jewish ethics? Did he ever hear how an entire people said that it did not know what was done in its name?"(Shulamit Aloni, March 2003)

------------------

"We enthusiastically chose to become a colonial society, ignoring international treaties, expropriating lands, transferring settlers from Israel to the occupied territories, engaging in theft and finding justification for all these activities. Passionately desiring to keep the occupied territories, we developed two judicial systems: one - progressive, liberal - in Israel; and the other - cruel, injurious - in the occupied territories. In effect, we established an apartheid regime in the occupied territories immediately following their capture. That oppressive regime exists to this day."
(Michael Ben-Yair, 3 March 2002)

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" We live in a thunderously failed reality. ... A state lacking justice cannot survive. ... Even if the Arabs lower their heads and swallow their shame and anger for ever, it won't work. A structure built on human callousness will inevitably collapse in on itself. Note this moment well: Zionism's superstructure is already collapsing like a cheap Jerusalem wedding hall."
(Avraham Burg, 15 September 2003)

----------------

"We enthusiastically chose to become a colonial society, ignoring international treaties, expropriating lands, transferring settlers from Israel to the occupied territories, engaging in theft and finding justification for all these activities. Passionately desiring to keep the occupied territories, we developed two judicial systems: one - progressive, liberal - in Israel; and the other - cruel, injurious - in the occupied territories. In effect, we established an apartheid regime in the occupied territories immediately following their capture. That oppressive regime exists to this day."
(Michael Ben-Yair, 3 March 2002)

-------------

"Do you want democracy? No problem. Either abandon the greater land of Israel, to the last settlement and outpost, or give full citizenship and voting rights to everyone, including Arabs. The result, of course, will be that those who did not want a Palestinian state alongside us will have one in our midst, via the ballot box. The prime minister should present the choices forthrightly: Jewish racism or democracy. Settlements, or hope for both peoples."
(Avraham Burg, 15 September 2003)
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SirZubair
07-31-2006, 05:54 PM
Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

yup so does afghanistan under taliban
Question is, does afghanistan want to exist under taliban rule :?
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lavikor201
07-31-2006, 05:54 PM
After the UN resolution of Nov. 29, 1947, to partition the country into Jewish and Arab states with Jerusalem as a corpus separatum, Palestinian Arabs (including veterans of the 1936-9 disturbances, members of Arab youth organizations, and police) initiated hostilities against the Jewish population. They were soon joined by volunteers from neighboring Arab states. Jewish forces were organized mostly in the Haganah (underground militia) with a fulltime component of about 4,000, mostly members of the Palmah.


The early Arab attacks resembled the Arab Revolt of 1936-9, with attacks on villages and terrorism in the cities.

The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini, the deeply anti-Semitic Nazi collaborator, stated:

I declare a holy war, my muslim brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!

Muhamed Nimer Al Hawari described the Arab leaders' ruthless incitement of the Arabs in Jaffa in December 1947:

... Jaffa was boiling: every second that passed you heard a new rumour, and after every minute the imaginary tales and lies became bigger, finally, they were accepted as definite truth by the public. When the sun was setting down, many of the Mufti henchmen patrolled the streets in private and lorry cars, calling upon the people: oh! people, oh! men, oh! heros; Help ... Help . . . , stop the Jewish attack! They have attacked your brothers in the Manshiya; they pillaged their properties; burned their holdings and raped their women and girls. They have committed awful acts of horror and brutality against your brothers!! In but a few minutes Jaffa's inhabitants were incited and agitated shouted and fired in the air:--On Them! On Them! On Tel-Aviv, the town of the wicked ... Groups and individuals, they marched on and among them, behind them or in front of them, went the Mufti henchmen belittling the Jewish strength...

One result of the Arab attacks on the State of Israel and its Jewish population was the flight of Arabs from thier homes in Israel. Even though they were encouraged to stay by the new Israeli government, and those who did remain became citizens, many fled at the urging of their Arab leaders who expected a quick victory over the Jews. Israel wanted the Arabs to stay as the army called "help us defended this land and we shall live together!" But the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who called for all Arabs to leave Israel and then come back when they 'killed every dirty jew'... was the one followed by the Arabs.
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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 06:24 PM
I'm really not going to defend or waste time on discussing things such as your pointless example that you keep pointing out... but you have to know, no matter what you keep saying, the picture is perfectly clear after Qana, Marwaheen Gaza beach and all those massacres that doesn't ends...
israel HATES ARABS... it's all about HATE towards Arabs.

This stupid war against Hezb Allah where they are only killing Lebanese and destroying Lebanon, not to mention they have BADLY FAILED in the War field and couldn't destroy Hezb Allah in the ground...

Hate is growing now every were and the MAJORITY all over the world are holding Hezb Allah's flags up in the air and Nassr Allah's picture are held up by all those who support Hezb Allah all over the world, not only Lebanon... Every one is watching Al-Manar TV bcz they are worried about Nassr Allah.

what would israel do..? have a war with the whole world?! attack every one who supports Hezb Allah in Lebanon and out side Lebanon?!?

israel false power is loosing control and must stop... if they want to have peace then they should accept the fact that they are in the middle east not israel

58 years full of violence, massacres and hate bcz of this ridiculous country that they call israel.

THAT'S MORE THAN ENOUGH



Reply

guyabano
07-31-2006, 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
Question is, does afghanistan want to exist under taliban rule :?
Apperently, some do !? :rollseyes
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mlsh27
07-31-2006, 06:33 PM
Both Lebanon and Israel are wrong....end of discussion.
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
I'm really not going to defend or waste time on discussing things such as your pointless example that you keep pointing out... but you have to know, no matter what you keep saying, the picture is perfectly clear after Qana, Marwaheen Gaza beach and all those massacres that doesn't ends...
israel HATES ARABS... it's all about HATE towards Arabs.

This stupid war against Hezb Allah where they are only killing Lebanese and destroying Lebanon, not to mention they have BADLY FAILED in the War field and couldn't destroy Hezb Allah in the ground...

Hate is growing now every were and the MAJORITY all over the world are holding Hezb Allah's flags up in the air and Nassr Allah's picture are held up by all those who support Hezb Allah all over the world, not only Lebanon... Every one is watching Al-Manar TV bcz they are worried about Nassr Allah.

what would israel do..? have a war with the whole world?! attack every one who supports Hezb Allah in Lebanon and out side Lebanon?!?

israel false power is loosing control and must stop... if they want to have peace then they should accept the fact that they are in the middle east not israel

58 years full of violence, massacres and hate bcz of this ridiculous country that they call israel.

THAT'S MORE THAN ENOUGH


There are over 1 million arabs living in Israel with some participating in the government. Tell me again how they hate Arabs?
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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by mlsh27
Both Lebanon and Israel are wrong....end of discussion.
oh pleeeeaasee... Lebanon have the right to defend them selves and release it's people from those criminals jails...
Hezb Allah have tought them good lessons now, specially the battles in the groud where israel have failed badly and ran away like mouses.;D
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mlsh27
07-31-2006, 06:57 PM
Lamaggad, A. learn to spell. B. Both sides are continuing with this. C. Both sides are killing.
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Pure
07-31-2006, 07:04 PM
Writer Jacqueline Rose Psychoanalizes Zionism

by John Sutherland - The Guardian -- November 28, 2005


The vitriol Jacqueline Rose's ideas have provoked is, perhaps, more startling than the ideas themselves. After Rose spoke on the winning side in a public debate on Zionism in January, Melanie Phillips -- one of the speakers on the losing side -- described her as one of "three Jewish persecutors of Israel who strutted their repellent stuff," and accused her of implicitly suggesting that "the Jews are responsible for their own destruction."

Earlier this month, Amnon Rubinstein suggested bitterly in a Jerusalem Post article on books about Zionism, which included Rose's The Question of Zion, that "Iran's president is not alone in wanting to wipe Israel off the map."

In her book -- an analysis of Zionism that examines the paradox between what was a secular political cause and its inextricable link with a Messianic vision -- Rose criticizes the Israeli state. Most provocatively, she draws tentative analogies between Israel's treatment of Palestinians and Nazi Germany's treatment of Jews. Even a sympathetic reviewer raised an eyebrow, observing that "in Jewish consciousness ... to compare Jews with Nazis is beyond blasphemy." Unsympathetic reviewers were simply outraged, and expressed their outrage at length.

Although she began her career as a critic of 19th-century children's literature, and remains professor of English at Queen Mary University of London, Rose has always seen a clear connection between her work in literature and geo-political issues. "It's all profoundly linked," she says. "The interest in children's fiction was an interest in collective fantasy and what makes a certain image of the child take hold in a culture. In the case of J.M. Barrie, I felt that passion for the innocence of Peter Pan was covering a multitude of sins as to how children were actually being treated and pervasive sexual anxiety as to what a child is. So there's always been a sense for me that the way such collective fantasies organize themselves can be deceitful, self- blinding or damaging to those they claim to represent. The second linkage is to psychoanalysis, which for me has always been a radical form of thought -- something that takes the lid off our values and reveals all the disturbing and challenging thoughts that you have but don't dare to have."

In The Question of Zion, therefore, she was uncovering the collective fantasies that have plagued Israel since its birth, and trying to look behind the state's proclaimed public values.

Rose explicitly applies psychoanalysis in order to lift the lid, so to speak, off Zionism. When I ask whether she believes Israeli democracy has the resources to absorb and use the kind of criticism that Rose and others like her friend the late Edward Said, bring to it, she replies:

"It's a very difficult question. Psychoanalysis says if you have a rigid symptom, the symptom will end up being too psychically or economically expensive, as it were, and will cease to be viable. In my book on Zionism one of the things that really made me very happy to discover, like a coral at the bottom of a pool, was this extraordinary tradition of dissent inside Israel. Part of the argument I'm making is that Zionism knows itself better than it appears. In psychoanalysis, Freud said famously that the patient is in the position of knowing and not knowing at the same time. I believe that Zionism is a very rigid system of thought but with incredibly creative forces running through it and a self-critique at the heart of it. I believe that other side will assert itself. So in that sense I'm optimistic."

How did Rose get to where she is now? "I am Jewish and Israel/Palestine was part of my identity, growing up as the daughter of second-generation Holocaust survivors. It was a very slow process of gradually understanding that something was really terribly wrong in the way that Israel had constituted itself and was conducting itself. The decisive moment was in 1980, when I visited Israel for the first time and met Dima Habash on the plane on the way there. She was the niece of George Habash, leader of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. She asked me to come to Ramallah and see the refugee camps.

"We went to visit Dima in Ramallah where her mother was running a United Nations relief operation for young Arabs. A whole crowd of girls rushed up to us, all in blue overalls, all incredibly excited that we foreigners were there. They were overjoyed to see us. Then they smiled and their teeth were rotten. There was no dentistry in the refugee camps. That was like a political education in a split second and it's never left me. It still gives me shivers when I talk about it. Those were the decisive moments and, if anything, I would say it's taken a while for my intellectual life to catch up with those moments."

So does she see what is going on in Israel now as an ideological civil war or something more like a lively internal debate with the possibility of hopeful political conclusions?

"It's an ideological civil war. The voices of dissent and opposition are very strong inside Israel. But I think things have never looked worse in the sense that Ariel Sharon [we are talking before his decision to leave the Likud party and set up his own political group -- and also before he was felled by a major stroke] is now a hero in Israel among large parts of the population and the Gaza disengagement is seen as a success. Meanwhile the annexation of swaths of the West Bank and the building of the wall are proceeding apace. It's a very dangerous moment and it's a very pessimistic moment. But the good thing that's happening is that it's so rigid and brutal in its enactment that it’s going to provoke increasing resistance. And it's also going to fail. It cannot work. As W.G. Sebald says in Austerlitz, no fortification in the world has ever succeeded in defending what it wanted to defend. Fortifications, like the wall in Israel, breed defiance and their own eventual destruction. It's non-viable. So I would say the combination of the internal dissent inside the country, and the non-viability of the solution, means that something must change"

(The Question of Zion by Jacqueline Rose is published by Princeton University Press. This article was edited for the Friday Magazine)
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 07:09 PM
How many gas chambers do Israel have? How many Arabs are in Israel? How many Pals have been killed in the bast 10 years? Your numbers that compare Israel to Nazis aren't adding up. It must be that new math
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lavikor201
07-31-2006, 07:13 PM
Geronimo, any sane person knows how dumb these arguments are. There are a lot of insane people here though.
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mlsh27
07-31-2006, 07:15 PM
Do you think people who think like this are helping bring peace...NO. Shouldn't that be what we are focusing on instead of "Oh you're wrong!" "No you're wrong!"
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nennar
07-31-2006, 07:21 PM
lavikor! .......... "Geronimo, any sane person knows how dumb these arguments are. There are a lot of insane people here though." ????????????????????????? what are you doing in here????????? its an islamic forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and i will keep saying it......... islamic forum
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by nennar
lavikor! .......... "Geronimo, any sane person knows how dumb these arguments are. There are a lot of insane people here though." ????????????????????????? what are you doing in here????????? its an islamic forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and i will keep saying it......... islamic forum
You gotta be insane to be on an islamic site? I think a lot of people here would disagree with you.
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lavikor201
07-31-2006, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by nennar
lavikor! .......... "Geronimo, any sane person knows how dumb these arguments are. There are a lot of insane people here though." ????????????????????????? what are you doing in here????????? its an islamic forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and i will keep saying it......... islamic forum
So I am not allowed to discuss here about Islamic Politics?

I'm not reffering to Muslims as insane. I am reffering to the individuals who make the crazed statement that Hitler = Israel have something wrong with them.
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nennar
07-31-2006, 07:40 PM
i ue´sed to think, and still do that what happend to the jews in ww2 was horrible.......... and i still cry when i see some thing from that war........ but the truth is the jews didnt learn anything from that........ and what you do in the middleeast is a perfect examble of that....... instead of living side by side(that is possible) with your neighbors........ especially the palæstinens ... no you do to them , what hitler did to you!............ and i am so sorry, but did allah not tell you that you didnt have a land/country?????? because you didnt obey allah............... oh is this only in the books of muslims and christians? that it say so??????
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Fishman
07-31-2006, 07:42 PM
:sl:
Israel is bad, but nothing like how bad Hitler was.
:w:
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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
So I am not allowed to discuss here about Islamic Politics?

I'm not reffering to Muslims as insane. I am reffering to the individuals who make the crazed statement that Hitler = Israel have something wrong with them.
you have just told me that your posts wasn't directed to me...?!

any way.. i Quoted this statement from Venezuela prime minister and the Iranian prime minister..
I agree with them, and most Arabs and Muslims agree with them.. you can see that point of view clearly when you look at the protesters around the world where they are holding posters that shows israeli star is equal to hitlar's sign, and they have also made other posters and have drown hitler's sign on bush, kondiliza raise and olmert face.

lavikor201, how about you tell your country to announce another war so they can get red of those people who support Hezb Allah and think israel is like hitler..?

israel wants to force every one to say that they are peaceful country who came to the middle east in peace.

58 years we are under the israeli power, and this is the conclusion... israel is equal to hitler.
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S_87
07-31-2006, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
This thread is pathetic.

The fact that someone can compare Israel with Hitler points to how foolish and unknowledgable of history they are.

.

yh sorry israels worse
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lavikor201
07-31-2006, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by nennar
i ue´sed to think, and still do that what happend to the jews in ww2 was horrible.......... and i still cry when i see some thing from that war........ but the truth is the jews didnt learn anything from that........ and what you do in the middleeast is a perfect examble of that....... instead of living side by side(that is possible) with your neighbors........ especially the palæstinens ... no you do to them , what hitler did to you!............ and i am so sorry, but did allah not tell you that you didnt have a land/country?????? because you didnt obey allah............... oh is this only in the books of muslims and christians? that it say so??????
In 1948 when the UN decreed that a Jewish and Arab State be made out of the British Mandate, 7 Arab Countries decided that they did not want to 'live side by side' with Israel. Israel was created by the UN and was attacked a day later by 7 Arab countries. If no Arab country ever attacked Israel, then only half of what is Israel would be Israel today, and there would be peace in the region. The Jews did learn something from the Holocaust. When the Jews are attacked and threatened we no longer stand back, we defend ourselves.
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babybackribs
07-31-2006, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
In 1948 when the UN decreed that a Jewish and Arab State be made out of the British Mandate, 7 Arab Countries decided that they did not want to 'live side by side' with Israel. Israel was created by the UN and was attacked a day later by 7 Arab countries. If no Arab country ever attacked Israel, then only half of what is Israel would be Israel today, and there would be peace in the region. The Jews did learn something from the Holocaust. When the Jews are attacked and threatened we no longer stand back, we defend ourselves.



100% true.
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mlsh27
07-31-2006, 08:26 PM
[MAD]Both sides of this are ridiculous. Seriously, go kill each side off..i don't care anymore because you are all pathetic.[/MAD]
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*noor
07-31-2006, 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by Dahir
Israel isn't totally Nazi[/B]
you're right. it's so much worse.
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by nennar
lavikor! you are full of it!.......... if you feel like that ...... join your military.... kill some more children and women..... and then say to yourself "good boy" now i can live in peace
lavikor did serve during one of the wars I believe. Besides all Israelis are obligated to serve at least 2 years.
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by *noor
you're right. it's so much worse.
How many Arabs live in Israel
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nennar
07-31-2006, 08:42 PM
so what if he served in one of the wars?????

he didnt learn from that!..... and still read your bible , torah and quran....... the jews where cursed by god for not listening...... therefor they dont have a land /country!......

hitler was an evil evil man!....... and what he did can not be excuesd..... but again the jews didnt learn from either there holy scripts and the past..... and what they are doing now is the proof of it! ....

"we learnt that we have to fight back"??????????

from what! you toke a whole country..... from people who lived there....but that doesent matter... because the poor jews need a place to stay....

so did you think that tha palestinians would just say! welcome!!!!!!! take it all?????
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mlsh27
07-31-2006, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by nennar
so what if he served in one of the wars?????

he didnt learn from that!..... and still read your bible , torah and quran....... the jews where cursed by god for not listening...... therefor they dont have a land /country!......

hitler was an evil evil man!....... and what he did can not be excuesd..... but again the jews didnt learn from either there holy scripts and the past..... and what they are doing now is the proof of it! ....

"we learnt that we have to fight back"??????????

from what! you toke a whole country..... from people who lived there....but that doesent matter... because the poor jews need a place to stay....

so did you think that tha palestinians would just say! welcome!!!!!!! take it all?????
And you have learned what from Islam? Why aren't you over there fighting? Right now I am at the point where all of you arguing should go over and fight and kill one another:grumbling
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KAding
07-31-2006, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Geronimo
lavikor did serve during one of the wars I believe. Besides all Israelis are obligated to serve at least 2 years.
Except for orthodox Jews, no?
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lavikor201
07-31-2006, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by amani
yh sorry israels worse
Do you want to show the forum your serious lack of knowledge any further, by continuing to make your argument... Would you like to compare statistics, and causes of the violence in both cases. Please tell me if you would. I wouldnt mind completly proving you wrong in every single aspect of your argument.
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by nennar
so what if he served in one of the wars?????

he didnt learn from that!..... and still read your bible , torah and quran....... the jews where cursed by god for not listening...... therefor they dont have a land /country!......

hitler was an evil evil man!....... and what he did can not be excuesd..... but again the jews didnt learn from either there holy scripts and the past..... and what they are doing now is the proof of it! ....

"we learnt that we have to fight back"??????????

from what! you toke a whole country..... from people who lived there....but that doesent matter... because the poor jews need a place to stay....

so did you think that tha palestinians would just say! welcome!!!!!!! take it all?????
So when are muslims gonna give Pakistan back to India?
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Except for orthodox Jews, no?
Yeah I think Orthodox Jews are exempt.
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lavikor201
07-31-2006, 08:56 PM
"we learnt that we have to fight back"??????????
I said we have to defend ourselves. Not only did you completly misquote me, but your analysis of the Mid east situation is very wrong.

Except for orthodox Jews, no?
I am Orthodox. I served. Students who go to a Yeshiva (religious school0 are excused until they finish there term, many study for some many years that they are to old to serve when they finally leave the Yeshiva.

he didnt learn from that!..... and still read your bible , torah and quran....... the jews where cursed by god for not listening...... therefor they dont have a land /country!......
Completly untrue.

I learned that the Islamic/Arabic Countries would attack the Jewish people on our most Holiest Day. Yom Kippur, we have to fast the whole day, no eating or drinking, and we fought and beat all the Arab Countries back.

I learned the Arabs didn't care whenw e attacked, but then later begged us for a cease fire on Rammadan.... Even though you never showed us that respect we gave it to you.
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nennar
07-31-2006, 09:03 PM
so when you fought back! you waitet to the month of ramadhan was over????? you dont even respect that , but want others to be consederat to your faith!... and oh i do get the mid east situation............ all arabs are evil and the jews! the poor jews are so good...... we see it again and again
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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
In 1948 when the UN decreed that a Jewish and Arab State be made out of the British Mandate, 7 Arab Countries decided that they did not want to 'live side by side' with Israel. Israel was created by the UN and was attacked a day later by 7 Arab countries. If no Arab country ever attacked Israel, then only half of what is Israel would be Israel today, and there would be peace in the region. The Jews did learn something from the Holocaust. When the Jews are attacked and threatened we no longer stand back, we defend ourselves.
another lie... I will just say one thing, The arab leaders have betrayed us in that war for thier own good.

and speaking about the Holocaust, zionists them selves supported that Holocaust and wanted it to happen so they can have an excuse to occupy Palestine.

not to mention Arabs have died in that Holocaust as well not only Jews.

if zionists condemn that Holocaust all the time.. then why they are doing the same acts of hitler towards Arabs in Palestine and Lebanon..?!
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Islamicboy
07-31-2006, 09:04 PM
Why are people defending Hizbullaah they are EVIL. Hizbullaah is just as evil as israel....
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lavikor201
07-31-2006, 09:07 PM
and speaking about the Holocaust, zionists them selves supported that Holocaust and wanted it to happen so they can have an excuse to occupy Palestine.
A complete LIE!Go read the transcripts of the first Zionist congress, your completly wrong, and you should do some research before talking about something you do not know.

another lie... I will just say one thing, The arab leaders have betrayed us in that was for thier own good.
Its no lie. 7 Arab countries attacked Israel. Everyone knows this outside the brainwashed cult of Jew haters.

if zionists condemn all the time that Holocaust.. then why they are doing the same acts of hitler towards Arabs in Palestine and Lebanon..?!
Not even close. Go read a book other than the Quran educate yourself on a variety of topics and then come back and discuss things about the Holocaust with me.
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nennar
07-31-2006, 09:10 PM
Why Shoyld He Do That! ????? Could It Be That The Quran Is True???????????
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wilberhum
07-31-2006, 09:10 PM
zionists them selves supported that Holocaust and wanted it to happen so they can have an excuse to occupy Palestine.
That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. Woud you like to provide some supporting evidence?
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
another lie... I will just say one thing, The arab leaders have betrayed us in that war for thier own good.

and speaking about the Holocaust, zionists them selves supported that Holocaust and wanted it to happen so they can have an excuse to occupy Palestine.

not to mention Arabs have died in that Holocaust as well not only Jews.

if zionists condemn all the time that Holocaust.. then why they are doing the same acts of hitler towards Arabs in Palestine and Lebanon..?!
Yup Jews did this to themselves just to steal Palestine:









Think before you speak
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ManchesterFolk
07-31-2006, 09:15 PM
Think before you speak Lammagad! To say Zionists are behind the Holocaust is a statement that shows how ignorant you are.

Dont even compare the Holocaust to the Mideast Conflict.

You have reached a new low, and your posts are extremily offensive. I usually support a Palestinian state, but whenever I see a radical like this go nuts with a keyboard, me and many other people on the fence tend to go back to the israeli side.
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Islamicboy
07-31-2006, 09:15 PM
Geronoimia you are prepared with responses! That was fast with the pictures and everything...
Machesterfolk not all muslims think like that.. How many know about the jewish sucide bombers who blew themselves up for Palestine.....
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by Islamicboy
Geronoimia you are prepared with responses! That was fast with the pictures and everything...
Machesterfolk not all muslims think like that.. How many know about the jewish sucide bombers who blew themselves up for Palestine.....
I just know where to look for what I need :D
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Geronimo
07-31-2006, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Islamicboy
Geronoimia you are prepared with responses! That was fast with the pictures and everything...
Machesterfolk not all muslims think like that.. How many know about the jewish sucide bombers who blew themselves up for Palestine.....
They were known as the Irgun and was a particularly nasty terrorist group. Though they never reached more than 1000 they were a forcr on the scene harassing both Arabs and the British. they were thoroughly routed by the British in the 1940s
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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
A complete LIE!Go read the transcripts of the first Zionist congress, your completly wrong, and you should do some research before talking about something you do not know.

Its no lie. 7 Arab countries attacked Israel. Everyone knows this outside the brainwashed cult of Jew haters.

Not even close. Go read a book other than the Quran educate yourself on a variety of topics and then come back and discuss things about the Holocaust with me.
I never said my info is from the Qur'an, please keep that book out of the discussion...

your info are wrong too and you should look for research and read some books about the history of zionism.
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ManchesterFolk
07-31-2006, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
I never said my info is from the Qur'an, please keep that book out of the discussion...

your info are wrong too and you should look for research and read some books about the history of zionism.
Info on Zionism:

Zionism is a political movement and ideology that supports a homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel, where the Jewish nation originated over 3,200 years ago and where Jewish kingdoms and self-governing states existed up to the 2nd century. While Zionism is based in part upon religious tradition linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel, the modern movement was originally secular, beginning largely as a response to rampant antisemitism in Europe and in many parts of the Muslim world during the 19th Century.
The Question Lammagad is that have you ever read a book about Zionism that was not written by Osama Bin-Laden, or Mohammad Attah?
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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by Geronimo
Yup Jews did this to themselves just to steal Palestine:

Think before you speak
I didn't say Jews, i have said zionism... there's a hug diffrence between them.
read before you talk to me.

my discussion about this will end here
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Lamaggad
07-31-2006, 09:37 PM
Back to the main point of this thread...

lavikor201, i think you have missed one of my posts...

http://www.islamicboard.com/428536-post59.html
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ManchesterFolk
07-31-2006, 09:40 PM
I didn't say Jews, i have said zionism... there's a hug diffrence between them.
read before you talk to me.
Every single person on the first zionist congress was a Jew! So you are saying you hate Jews.

Your ridiculous statement that Israel and Hitler are equal would get you laughed out of any debate room. The lack of facts your provide and your lack of knowledge of the overall subject is very aparent.

I am not even sure how I can take your seriously with the absolute lies you write on this board. Is that you Osama?


my discussion about this will end here
Good. I hate Pathological Liars that spread completly false statements to spread there agenda. Go read a history book... though it might be to late for you since you are as someone wrote earlier completly brainwashed.
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Woodrow
07-31-2006, 09:44 PM
The only redeeming quality I can see about this thread is it is giving an oportunity for some controversial material to be covered. But, like all controversies, all sides need to be seen in order to arrive at a fair conclusion. Let us all try to discuss with just facts and avoid the temptation to stereotype any group of people.

No matter what our personal beliefs or feelings may be, no statement is ever true about every member of any group.

Let us all agree to disagree with dignity and in an honorable manner.
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Keltoi
07-31-2006, 09:56 PM
Anyone who is even slightly aware of the political and military history of WWII and the Nazi war machine would never compare the state of Israel to Hitler. There really isn't anything a rational person can say about this thread or the poll, besides ...no, that isn't appropriate either.
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ManchesterFolk
07-31-2006, 10:21 PM
Anyone who says that Hitler and Israel are the same have no fact and I challenge you to present any facts to prove that the Mideast Conflict is even close to the Holocaust!
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Kidman
07-31-2006, 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by j4763
Hmm, Hitler was responsible for an estimated 60 million deaths, anyone know how many deaths Israel are responsible for :?
Hmmm...

1948: Over 800,000 Palestinians forced to leave their homes due to Zionist attacks

1967: Another 300,000 Palestinians made refugees by the illegal "Israeli" occupation of Gaza and the West Bank

Since Spt. 29th, 2000
- an estimated 30,000 Palestinians have been injured, 4,000 killed (920 of which were children), and over 4,500 homes demolished

Today: Over 4 million palestinian refugees, and 8,403 Palestinians are imprisoned by "Israel"

***Sounds like a Hitler in progross to me

Kidman
Reply

wilberhum
07-31-2006, 10:34 PM
Sounds like a Hitler in progross to me
Only when they are all thrown into ovens.
Reply

ManchesterFolk
07-31-2006, 10:38 PM
1948: Over 800,000 Palestinians forced to leave their homes due to Zionist attacks
Actually, most Palestinians left on there own free will, when the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem called any Muslim who stayed in Israel a traitor. Then he made the announcement for all Muslims to leave, because the Arab Nations were going to exterminate every Jew and drive them into the sea.

(Yes the same Grand Mufti who visisted Berlin and inspected SS Death Camp Gaurds and had chats with Hitler.)



They obviously never talked about Israels plea for all Muslims to stay and to build a country together in 1948, in your mosque did they?

1967: Another 300,000 Palestinians made refugees by the illegal "Israeli" occupation of Gaza and the West Bank
If 7 Arab Nations did not prepare to attack Israel in 1967, would there be any dispute of occupied territories? No.

The occupation is the Arab worlds fault.

Since Spt. 29th, 2000
- an estimated 30,000 Palestinians have been injured, 4,000 killed (920 of which were children), and over 4,500 homes demolished
You dare compare that to the Holocaust? Would you like me to get out Holocaust numbers to compare to yours and then ask you if you still vote 'yes' in this little poll.

Would you like me to continue, and completly embarass you with the facts.

Spare yourself the embarassment, and just don't even reply.

Or if you want to continue this argument i'm ready to completly destroy any validity to the statement the 'hitler = israel'
Reply

HeiGou
07-31-2006, 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by Kidman
1948: Over 800,000 Palestinians forced to leave their homes due to Zionist attacks
I think the UN only counted 750,000 but that's a quibble.

1967: Another 300,000 Palestinians made refugees by the illegal "Israeli" occupation of Gaza and the West Bank
Where do you get that figure from which is almost certainly out by a factor of ten?

Since Spt. 29th, 2000
- an estimated 30,000 Palestinians have been injured, 4,000 killed (920 of which were children), and over 4,500 homes demolished
So since 2000 this "genocidal" Israel government has killed 4000 Palestinians? In six years? In a roughly similar period of time the Germans killed 6,000,000 Jews. So for every Palestinian killed in the Intifada since 2000, the Germans killed 1,500 innocent, non-violent, unresisting Jews. You still compare the two?

Today: Over 4 million palestinian refugees, and 8,403 Palestinians are imprisoned by "Israel"

***Sounds like a Hitler in progross to me
Imprisoned in what sense? Sounds like you are (quick, thinks what words could possibly go in here without getting me banned) a little Mel Gibson-ish.
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ManchesterFolk
07-31-2006, 11:34 PM
When somone claims that the MiddleEast Conflict can be compared to the Holocaust there are only 3 types of people.

-People who will argue the 'israel=hitler' point with absolutly no facts supporting them, but still argue this because of there hatred towards the Jewish people and Israel.

-People who will just sit in the sidelines and be nuetral.

-People who are so stunned that people could actually compare the MidEast Conflict to the Holocaust, that they feel compelled the stand up and present everyone with the facts for the sake of humanity.
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Kidman
07-31-2006, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
Oh please, Shiites and Sunnis are running around Iraq defying the law, and murdering eachother and blowing up eachother mosques. Are you going to blame this on America? PLEASE!
Sorry to say, but i believe it is the American's or Jewish people that are causing it as well. This is a very contraversial issue, but I will tell you my reason, and you can see where i'm coming from or argue, but nobody knows for sure.. so you can say whatever you believe and I can't say you are right or wrong in what you believe, only God Knows.

Basically, the people who hate Islam (jews and american's) would rather us fight one another than join forces. My belief is that they created all the drama between the Two factions because when Sunni's and Shia's started joining forces in Iraq against the American's after the fall of Saddam, who i still believe to be a horrible man and i'm glad he's gone... But Sunni's and Shia's started to come together, but then you see a Shia mosque blow up and right after a sunni area gets bombed... then all hell breaks loose between the two.

Then again, when Denmark came out with the depicting picture of our Beloved Prophet, Sunni's and Shia's again started to come together as one and go against a more important enemy, but right after what happens??? Imam Askari Mosque gets blown up in Samarra, which is one of the Shia's most famous Mosque's... I believe this was a way to re-direct the concentration away from the Sunni's and Shia's who were coming together and get them fighting again.

Then Sayed Sistani... the most followed Shia Scholar, came out with a Fatwa about a couple of weeks to 1 month ago saying something like this to his Shia followers.

Basically, if a Sunni comes to attack you, you are not to harm him in any way... Even if he comes to kill you, you can only do what is necessary to save you and your families life, but restrain as much as possible from harming your Sunni brother, For they have been brainwashed by an outside force for them to lower themself to such an extent to hurt a fellow muslim. And by you harming them back, you are only intensifying the cause of the outsider that caused this chaos and neither you or the Sunni will benefit, but the outsider will be the one to benefit from this.
- this was my own words, i didn't want to take the time to research it completely, as long as you get the point.

if Israel wanted to intentionally traget innocent, they would drop warnings, and only traget militant strongholds.... If Israels goal was to kill innocent, there would no one left in Lebonon.
See, and this is what most people believe. But if you talk to people who came back from lebanon, they will give you another story.

Israel does drop warnings, but people are still afraid to move... because even after dropping the warnings they still target the civilians!!! I have heard this numerous times from many people in Lebanon that made it back to U.S. They believe they are the luckiest people to have made it and have some crazy stories. They say even after the warnings, if you try to drive off in the north or to syria, you are like in a warzone and missles are hitting all around you and hitting innocent civilian territories.

Israels goal is to kill innocent people, but only as much as they think they can get away with, without having the world come against them, if not,t hen ya, they would've done what U.S did to Japan and just dropped some crazy bomb that would wipe them all off, but this way they still have the media on their side... and they are trying to say "If we hit you, you better not hit back or I will take go straight to your family who can't defend themself...so next time your mom will blame you for her death."

Kidman
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imaad_udeen
08-01-2006, 12:48 AM
It is absurd and totally idiotic to compare Israel to Adolf Hitler.

Anyone who does so is ignorant of history or blind and biased to the extreme.

You might as well piss on the ashes of all the innocent Jews who were marched into gas chambers thinkning they were getting showers, then had their corpses burned to ashes.

The Nazis also made other Jews do all the dirsty work of burning the bodies.

This poll speaks volumes about the immature little boys and girls who populate this forum. .

You should all be ashamed of yourselves if you believe that.

You are part of the problem.
Reply

mlsh27
08-01-2006, 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
It is absurd and totally idiotic to compare Israel to Adolf Hitler.

Anyone who does so is ignorant of history or blind and biased to the extreme.

You might as well piss on the ashes of all the innocent Jews who were marched into gas chambers thinkning they were getting showers, then had their corpses burned to ashes.

The Nazis also made other Jews do all the dirsty work of burning the bodies.

This poll speaks volumes about the immature little boys and girls who populate this forum. .

You should all be ashamed of yourselves if you believe that.

You are part of the problem.
100% agree! How can peace ever be achievable when people are so biased and unable to look at reality.
Reply

lavikor201
08-01-2006, 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
It is absurd and totally idiotic to compare Israel to Adolf Hitler.

Anyone who does so is ignorant of history or blind and biased to the extreme.

You might as well piss on the ashes of all the innocent Jews who were marched into gas chambers thinkning they were getting showers, then had their corpses burned to ashes.

The Nazis also made other Jews do all the dirsty work of burning the bodies.

This poll speaks volumes about the immature little boys and girls who populate this forum. .

You should all be ashamed of yourselves if you believe that.

You are part of the problem.
Finally, a true representative of Islam!
Reply

Lamaggad
08-01-2006, 02:31 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
Finally, a true representative of Islam!
Islam has nothing to do with this... don't mix up things... Islam forbids such stuff weather it's hitler or israel or what ever...
Jews who have died in this Holocaust have our sympathy.

Venezuela prime minister isn't Muslim, and he is the one who have said that israel is doing the same as hitler and i have quoted it from him since i totally agree... so please don't keep pointing about Islam and Qur'an.

this isn't about Islam, it's about the terrorists acts that israel is doing and then they blame the death of those civilians and women and children on Hezb Allah... the most ridiculous excuse ever.

all israel excuses are lies and majority aren't able to believe them...
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north_malaysian
08-01-2006, 02:35 AM
Disagree!!!
Reply

Link
08-01-2006, 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by imran_c
as-salam alaykum

well theres a massive consciparcy did hitler even commit all them mascres or was it just an illusion so the jews can get there own state?

wa-salam alaykum
Their is evidence that shows this. I believe this is the case as does Khamanei (ha).

The evidence is never discussed or refuted, people will just go with the propaganda, getting old people to tell stories that you can find flaws in almost each one, they don't have real evidence, the whole chemical story and them turning into ashes is just because there are no mass graves, etc, all thought up to compensate for lack of evidence.

But their are documents showing all kind of evidence about jews getting the ISraeli state before the war, and they will never show this in history classes in the west.
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Lamaggad
08-01-2006, 02:53 AM
Originally Posted by j4763
Hmm, Hitler was responsible for an estimated 60 million deaths, anyone know how many deaths Israel are responsible for :?
for those who are comparing numbers... I'm not really comparing the numbers... who have killed 500000, will kill 2 million and will kill more than that and keep killing till he dies.. that's really not the issue... we are talking about the acts and the way of killing...
israel is killing people in cold blood just like hitler but in a diff rent way... i hope and pray that they won't kill more than what they have done.

this zionist state have destroyed over 417 Arab villages including all mosques and holy places, killed it's people and kicked them out of their houses.. they have turned most of the mosques in the lands that they have occupied in to bars just to hurt Muslims feelings.
They have burnt Al-Aqssa mosque twice trying to destroy it... have diged under it for useless reasons... they keep blocking the way on the people who wants to go pray Fridays prayers.

those acts to me and many other are even worse than hitler... and it's unforgivable and not any Muslim and not any Arab are going to forgive israel for doing that... and they will come back for revenge just like israel have taken their revenge.

i wonder why are we blames for being mad about those zionist while Jews tem selves never have forgotten what hitler have done to them...?!? answer me lavikor20, how any one can forgive israel for those acts towards Muslims and Arabs?!?!
Reply

Lamaggad
08-01-2006, 03:16 AM
too bad some of those who is posting in here doesn't even know that me and lavikor201 have a good relation and respect each other...

and all what we are debating about is point of views... if you guys are not able to accept my views then tell me that you don't in a decent way and challenge the truth if you can..

if you aren't able to do that.. then basically no need for your pointless posts...

I'm not going to say members names i'm talking about, i guess those specific members know them selves.

thanks for understanding.
Reply

lavikor201
08-01-2006, 03:27 AM
how any one can forgive israel for those acts towards Muslims and Arabs?!?!
maybe you should think. How can the Jewish world ever forgive the Arab World for there intolerance. The first day Israel was created, and the Arabs and Israel were each given a state by the UN the Arabs called for the extermination of the Jews. They wished to kill each any everyone of them.

As the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem said. "We will create a new Holocaust, and prove to the Jews that we of Islam should be feared and we have less mercy than the Germans. No one wants the Jew because they are dirt."

How can the jews ever forgive islam after there religious leader in Jerusalem said this. My family is of the 1 million Mizrahi Jews.

Jews that never left Israel!

Over 1 Million Mizrahi Jews in Israel can trace there roots to living in the holy land and practicing Judaism before Islam was created!!!!! How about an apology to them?



November 2, 1943 Himmler's telegram to Mufti: ""To the Grand Mufti: The National Socialist movement of Greater Germany has, since its inception, inscribed upon its flag the fight against the world Jewry. It has therefore followed with particular sympathy the struggle of freedom-loving Arabs, especially in Palestine, against Jewish interlopers. In the recognition of this enemy and of the common struggle against it lies the firm foundation of the natural alliance that exists between the National Socialist Greater Germany and the freedom-loving Muslims of the whole world. In this spirit I am sending you on the anniversary of the infamous Balfour declaration my hearty greetings and wishes for the successful pursuit of your struggle until the final victory. Reichsfuehrer S.S. Heinrich Himmler"


The evidence is never discussed or refuted
There is so much evidence it is amazingly easy to refute any Holocaust denyer.

There is so much evidence that the Holocaust happend it is ridiculous. Go see it for yourself in Poland and Germany. The fact that you deny the Holocaust shows your character as a history revisionist... or one who is in a little dream world and can only see the world with his brain washed controled point of view.
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Hijrah
08-01-2006, 03:41 AM
No, read this

"Around 1937, when Hitler heard that at the instigation of the party and the SS vast numbers of his followers had left the church because it was obstinately opposing his plans, he nevertheless ordered his chief associates, above all Goering and Gobbels, to remain members of the church. He too would remain a member of the Catholic Church, he said, although he had no real attachment to it. And in fact he remained in the church until his suicide." (Inside the Third Reich by Albert Speer page 95-96)

“The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.” –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf

“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” –Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

"Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
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abdmez
08-01-2006, 03:41 AM
To let our emotions take over our brain and to suggest that the Israel is worse than Hitler terrible.

When you make such a bold statement with no factual base you are just making yourself look bad, and proving that you have little control over emotions.
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Hijrah
08-01-2006, 03:46 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
maybe you should think. How can the Jewish world ever forgive the Arab World for there intolerance. The first day Israel was created, and the Arabs and Israel were each given a state by the UN the Arabs called for the extermination of the Jews. They wished to kill each any everyone of them.

As the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem said. "We will create a new Holocaust, and prove to the Jews that we of Islam should be feared and we have less mercy than the Germans. No one wants the Jew because they are dirt."

How can the jews ever forgive islam after there religious leader in Jerusalem said this. My family is of the 1 million Mizrahi Jews.

Jews that never left Israel!

Over 1 Million Mizrahi Jews in Israel can trace there roots to living in the holy land and practicing Judaism before Islam was created!!!!! How about an apology to them?



November 2, 1943 Himmler's telegram to Mufti: ""To the Grand Mufti: The National Socialist movement of Greater Germany has, since its inception, inscribed upon its flag the fight against the world Jewry. It has therefore followed with particular sympathy the struggle of freedom-loving Arabs, especially in Palestine, against Jewish interlopers. In the recognition of this enemy and of the common struggle against it lies the firm foundation of the natural alliance that exists between the National Socialist Greater Germany and the freedom-loving Muslims of the whole world. In this spirit I am sending you on the anniversary of the infamous Balfour declaration my hearty greetings and wishes for the successful pursuit of your struggle until the final victory. Reichsfuehrer S.S. Heinrich Himmler"




There is so much evidence it is amazingly easy to refute any Holocaust denyer.

There is so much evidence that the Holocaust happend it is ridiculous. Go see it for yourself in Poland and Germany. The fact that you deny the Holocaust shows your character as a history revisionist... or one who is in a little dream world and can only see the world with his brain washed controled point of view.

They are nowhere near as bad as Hitler but tell me what about the massacres committed by the Jews in those cities when they first started moving in.....
Reply

Lamaggad
08-01-2006, 03:51 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
The first day Israel was created, and the Arabs and Israel were each given a state by the UN.
if UN have given zionists a state, that doesn't mean that Arabs have approved it... all Arabs and Muslims were against it and STILL against it...

Palestine is not for UN or zionists to be divided between Arabs and Jews... the end of the zionist satate is coming soon since Arabs never approved it and never accepted the UN separation.

UN is like a remote control for zionists so they can control and role over the world... it was never fair with Arabs... if we have the VITO, we would have used it...
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abdmez
08-01-2006, 04:02 AM
if UN have given zionists a state, that doesn't mean that Arabs have approved it... all Arabs and Muslims were against it and STILL against it...
When the Arab Nations joined the UN, they accepted the democracy which was that is a majority of countries vote for the creation of a state than they must accept it.

UN is like a remote control for zionists so they can control and role over the world... it was never fair with Arabs... if we have the VITO, we would have used it...
What is a 'vito'???

If you are refering to the 'veto' than the veto is given to a country that created the UN. Russia, China, UK, USA are all countries that are responsible for the creation of the UN.

I am a Muslim and I also believe Israel has a right to exist, unlike Hamas and other extremists like yourself.
Reply

Lamaggad
08-01-2006, 04:48 AM
Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
Every single person on the first zionist congress was a Jew!
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/opposed.html
Reply

Looking4Peace
08-01-2006, 04:50 AM
wasnt the zionist movement started by athiests as well, this is what i have read from various religious scholar sites of various faiths
Reply

Lamaggad
08-01-2006, 04:58 AM
Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
This guy went out to hitler to buy weapons so he can fight the zionist state that zionists were planning to creat in Palestine at that time... he was looking forward to STOP them before doing it.

another prove that Arabs never approved or accepted the zionist state in Palestine...

we would accept the zionists existence if they would have created their own state in any other country such as Canada and US as they are friends with them and both have so much free space to share... we should not be forced to accept others while don't want to divide our lands and holy places.
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-01-2006, 05:40 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
maybe you should think. How can the Jewish world ever forgive the Arab World for there intolerance. The first day Israel was created, and the Arabs and Israel were each given a state by the UN the Arabs called for the extermination of the Jews. They wished to kill each any everyone of them.

As the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem said. "We will create a new Holocaust, and prove to the Jews that we of Islam should be feared and we have less mercy than the Germans. No one wants the Jew because they are dirt."

How can the jews ever forgive islam after there religious leader in Jerusalem said this. My family is of the 1 million Mizrahi Jews.

Jews that never left Israel!

Over 1 Million Mizrahi Jews in Israel can trace there roots to living in the holy land and practicing Judaism before Islam was created!!!!! How about an apology to them?



November 2, 1943 Himmler's telegram to Mufti: ""To the Grand Mufti: The National Socialist movement of Greater Germany has, since its inception, inscribed upon its flag the fight against the world Jewry. It has therefore followed with particular sympathy the struggle of freedom-loving Arabs, especially in Palestine, against Jewish interlopers. In the recognition of this enemy and of the common struggle against it lies the firm foundation of the natural alliance that exists between the National Socialist Greater Germany and the freedom-loving Muslims of the whole world. In this spirit I am sending you on the anniversary of the infamous Balfour declaration my hearty greetings and wishes for the successful pursuit of your struggle until the final victory. Reichsfuehrer S.S. Heinrich Himmler"




There is so much evidence it is amazingly easy to refute any Holocaust denyer.

There is so much evidence that the Holocaust happend it is ridiculous. Go see it for yourself in Poland and Germany. The fact that you deny the Holocaust shows your character as a history revisionist... or one who is in a little dream world and can only see the world with his brain washed controled point of view.
Salaam,

As you like to rehash history then pls azk yourself,what was the first act by Jews who entered palestine?

And you assertion that the 1 million jews of your family in palestine and the mufti of jerusalem already show that there were already people in that land.
So tell me,of what right did the UN have to displace the Muslim and Chrsiitan and give the land to jews?

So in the end as you ahve wisely pointed out,it all begin with the creation of Israel....all this bloodshed and hatered..

All becasue of Israel.
Would you rahter want peace in palestine under muslim rule when Jews christians and muslim lived in peace..
Or would you rahter continue to deprive muslima dn chrsitian their holy places and their land just so that you can have your messiah and temple?

At what cost to arabs muslim and christian will it suffice for you?

To that end,the war will end one way or another,Allah is the best of planners,as Israel tries to murder arabs women ,but muslim will still strive.

As another post said,more and converting and more of them are women.,Inshallah,Isreal will be a coutnry by muslim to protect jews and chrisitan.,.
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mlsh27
08-01-2006, 06:40 AM
Can't you all agree to disagree because all you are doing is going back and forth and back and forth and..I think you get the picture. I doubt that any of you will change your mind, so is this thread still here? It sounds like a broken record.
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Woodrow
08-01-2006, 07:01 AM
Quite a few of the posts have gone way off topic. I am now begining the process of deleting the post that are definetly off topic and a few that are not so much off topic, but refer back to off topic posts.

Because there are so many posts involved, I am not sending my usual explanation PM to each poster, as to why the post is deleted.
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Sis786
08-01-2006, 08:19 AM
I never get the Question but i see loads of similarties i mean both are blood hungry yet i dont think the Israelis would like being compared to Hitler!
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SirZubair
08-01-2006, 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
i dont think the Israelis would like being compared to Hitler!

Rightfully so.

Just as every muslim wouldn't want to compared to Usama Bin Laden. Except for our lovely pro-jihad posters ofcourse.
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Sis786
08-01-2006, 08:31 AM
Originally Posted by SirZubair

Rightfully so.

Just as every muslim wouldn't want to compared to Usama Bin Laden. Except for our lovely pro-jihad posters ofcourse.
I was thinking more long the lines of Britney Spears and Christine Aguleria... :rollseyes
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SirZubair
08-01-2006, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
I was thinking more long the lines of Britney Spears and Christine Aguleria... :rollseyes
....jessica simpson and natalie imbruglia :p
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Sis786
08-01-2006, 08:39 AM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
....jessica simpson and natalie imbruglia :p
No comparison there Natalie gets my vote. But what is this whole poll about do we think that Israel is like Hitler.. i think its impossible to compare the both really.....
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SirZubair
08-01-2006, 08:45 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
i think its impossible to compare the both really.....
I agree with you. (oh, and i also agree about the Nat imbruglia part :p )

Come on people, don't let your emotions get the best of you.

And please, spare me the "why are you defending the non-muslims ! defend your brothers!" crap.

I will stand up for the truth, with my fellow muslims or Without my fellow muslims.
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Lamaggad
08-01-2006, 08:51 AM
Please be aware that this is not a comparison between two religions... it's a comparison about two sick characters.
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SirZubair
08-01-2006, 08:53 AM
Oh right.

My apoligies.

But i still disagree with you Habib.
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Lamaggad
08-01-2006, 08:58 AM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
Oh right.

My apoligies.

But i still disagree with you Habib.
apologies accepted Habib...
you disagree..? that's fine.. this is what we call freedom of speech. :)
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scentsofjannah
08-01-2006, 09:00 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
After the UN resolution of Nov. 29, 1947, to partition the country into Jewish and Arab states with Jerusalem as a corpus separatum, Palestinian Arabs (including veterans of the 1936-9 disturbances, members of Arab youth organizations, and police) initiated hostilities against the Jewish population. They were soon joined by volunteers from neighboring Arab states. Jewish forces were organized mostly in the Haganah (underground militia) with a fulltime component of about 4,000, mostly members of the Palmah.


The early Arab attacks resembled the Arab Revolt of 1936-9, with attacks on villages and terrorism in the cities.

The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini, the deeply anti-Semitic Nazi collaborator, stated:

I declare a holy war, my muslim brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!

Muhamed Nimer Al Hawari described the Arab leaders' ruthless incitement of the Arabs in Jaffa in December 1947:

... Jaffa was boiling: every second that passed you heard a new rumour, and after every minute the imaginary tales and lies became bigger, finally, they were accepted as definite truth by the public. When the sun was setting down, many of the Mufti henchmen patrolled the streets in private and lorry cars, calling upon the people: oh! people, oh! men, oh! heros; Help ... Help . . . , stop the Jewish attack! They have attacked your brothers in the Manshiya; they pillaged their properties; burned their holdings and raped their women and girls. They have committed awful acts of horror and brutality against your brothers!! In but a few minutes Jaffa's inhabitants were incited and agitated shouted and fired in the air:--On Them! On Them! On Tel-Aviv, the town of the wicked ... Groups and individuals, they marched on and among them, behind them or in front of them, went the Mufti henchmen belittling the Jewish strength...

One result of the Arab attacks on the State of Israel and its Jewish population was the flight of Arabs from thier homes in Israel. Even though they were encouraged to stay by the new Israeli government, and those who did remain became citizens, many fled at the urging of their Arab leaders who expected a quick victory over the Jews. Israel wanted the Arabs to stay as the army called "help us defended this land and we shall live together!" But the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who called for all Arabs to leave Israel and then come back when they 'killed every dirty jew'... was the one followed by the Arabs.

i hope you read my posts above..Israel encouraged the arabs to stay? what did Ben Gurion your first president say?..he said 'drive the arabs out'

but its cool if you choose to ignore..the history books are out there and ive quoted from them
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-01-2006, 09:14 AM
google chinese jews..believe me there are such a people as CHINESE JEWS..

and these jews want the whole world to think all of them are the descendants of the ancient Israelites.

how is a blonde haired blueeyed pasty skinned european a direct descendant of the ancient Israelites..is beyond me

truth is this..many people throughout the world who were practioners of polythiestic and pagan religions became attracted to the strict monotheism of Judaism..hence they converted to it..this explains the phenomenon of Chinese jews, european jews, South Indian jews etc..these people are the direct descendants of those converts to Judaism.

its strange that jews today say no one converted to Judaism..so im asking Lavikor this..do you deny that many people inside Isrel who call themselves jews maybe the descendants of converts to Judaism...do you deny that people converted to this religion?
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
08-01-2006, 09:15 AM
Originally Posted by nennar
i ue´sed to think, and still do that what happend to the jews in ww2 was horrible.......... and i still cry when i see some thing from that war........ but the truth is the jews didnt learn anything from that........ and what you do in the middleeast is a perfect examble of that....... instead of living side by side(that is possible) with your neighbors........ especially the palæstinens ... no you do to them , what hitler did to you!............ and i am so sorry, but did allah not tell you that you didnt have a land/country?????? because you didnt obey allah............... oh is this only in the books of muslims and christians? that it say so??????
Wish people would learn to write in a proper manner! :rollseyes

Hitler was out to create a whole new race. Jews are not, if Palestine accepted a jewish state all this would never occur! I don't see why they don't accept it, do you? It's only one jewish state in the whole universe, muslims have over 60 states all over the world, why another one?? Accept waht you have or move to Egypt or something!
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-01-2006, 09:35 AM
Was Arab opposition to the arrival of the Zionists based on inherent anti-Semitism or a real sense of danger to their community?

"The aim of the [Jewish National] Fund was ‘to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people’…As early as 1981, Zionist leader Ahd Ha`am wrote that the Arabs ‘ understand very well what we are doing and what we are aiming at’ …[Theodor Herz, the founder of Zionism stated]’we shall try to spirit the penniless [Arab] population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country…Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly’… at various locations in northern Palestine Arab farmers to move from land the Fund purchased from absentee owners, and the Turkish authorities, at the Fund’s request, evicted them … The indigenous Jews of Palestine also reacted negatively to Zionism.They did not see the need for a Jewish state in Palestine and id not want to exacerbate relations with the Arabs.

John Quigley, "Palestine and Israel:
A challenge to Justice."


Inherent anti –Semitism? – Continued

"Before the 20th century, most Jews in Palestine belonged to the old Yishuv, or community, that had settled more for religious than political reasons. There was little if any conflict between them and the Arab population. Tensions began after the first Zionist settlers arrived in the 1880`s…when [they] purchased land from absentee Arab owners, leading to dispossession of the peasants who cultivated it.

Don Pertz, "The Arab-Israel Dispute."Jewish attitude towards Arabs upon reaching Palestine

"Serfs they (the Jews) were in the lands of the Diaspora, and suddenly they find themselves in freedom [in Palestine]; and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination."

[U]Zionist writer Ahad Ha`am, "Proposals for Arab-Jewish Cooperation

"An article by Yitzhak Epstein, published in Hashiloah in 1907… called for a new Zionist policy towards the Arabs after 30 years of settlement activity…Like Ahad-Ha`am in 1891, Epstein claims that no good land is vacant, so Jewish settlement meant Arab dispossession …Epstein `s solution to the problem, so that a new ‘Jewish Question’ may be avoided, is the creation of a bi-national, non-exclusive program of settlement and development. Purchasing land should not involve the dispossession of poor sharecroppers. It should mean creating a joint farming community, where the Arabs will enjoy modern technology. Schools, hospitals and libraries should be non-exclusivist and education bilingual… The vision of the non-exclusivist, peaceful cooperation to replace the practice of dispossession found few takers. Epstein was maligned and scorned for his faintheartedness."

Israeli author, Benjamin Beit- Hallahmi,
"Original Sins".
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-01-2006, 09:37 AM
Were the early Zionists planning on living side-by-side with the Arabs?

In 1919, the American King-crane Commission spent six weeks in Syria and Palestine, interviewing delegations and reading petitions. Their report stated,"The commissioners began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in it favour… The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission’s conferences with Jewish representatives that the Zionists looked forward to practically complete dispossession of the present non- Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase…

"If [the] principle [of self-determination] is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine’s population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine – nearly nine-tenths of the whole- are emphatically against the entire Zionist program…To subject a people so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social pressure to surrender the land, would be a gross violation of the principle just quoted…No British officers, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than fifty thousand soldiers would be required even to initiate the program. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense of the injustice of the Zionist program…The initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a ‘right’ to Palestine based on occupation of two thousand years ago, can barely be seriously considered."

Quoted in "The Israel- Arab Reader",
ed. Laqueur and Rubin.


Arab resistance to Pre-Israeli Zionism

"In 1936-9, the Palestinian Arabs attempted a Nationalist revolt …David Ben-Gurion, eminently a realist, recognized its nature. In internal discussion, he noted that ‘in our political argument abroad, we minimize Arab opposition to us,’ but he urged, ‘let us not ignore the truth among ourselves.’ The truth was that ‘politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country, while we are still outside’… The revolt was crushed by the British, with considerable brutality."

Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."


Were the Zionists prepared to settle for the territory granted in the 1947 partition?

"While the Yishuv`s leadership formally accepted the 1947 Partition Resolution, large sections of Israeli society- including…Ben Gurion- were opposed to or extremely unhappy with the partition and from early on viewed the war as an ideal opportunity to expand the new state’s borders beyond the UN-earmarked partition boundaries and at the expense of the Palestinians.

"Israeli Historian, Benny Morris,
in "Tikun", March/April 1998.



Public vs. private pronouncements on this question

‘In internal discussion in 1938,[David Ben-Gurion] stated that’ after we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine… The state will only be a stage in the realization of Zionism and its task is to prepare the ground for our expansion into the whole of Palestine’… In 1948, Menahem Begin declared that: ‘The partition of the Homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature of institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will forever be our capital. Eretz Israel (the Land of Israel) will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And forever.’ "

Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle"


Was Palestine the only, or even preferred, destination of Jews facing persecution when the Zionist movement started?

"The pogroms forced many Jews to leave Russia. Societies known as ‘Lovers of Zion,’ which were forerunners of the Zionist organization, convinced some of the frightened emigrants to go to Palestine. There, they argued, Jews would rebuild the ancient Jewish ‘Kingdom of David and Solomon’ Most Russian Jews ignored their appeal and fled to Europe and the United States. By 1900, almost a million Jews had settled in the United States alone."

"Our Roots Are Still Alive"
by The People Press Palestine Book Project.


Gandhi on the Palestine conflict – 1938

"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French…What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct…If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs…As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds."

Mahatma Gandhi quoted in
"A Land of Two Peoples"ed. Mendes-Flohr


The Deir Yassin Massacre of Palestine by Jewish Soldiers

"For the entire day of April 9, 1948,Irgun and LEHI soldiers carried out the slaughter in a cold and premeditated fashion…The attackers ‘lined men, women and children up against the walls and shot them,’…The ruthlessness of the attack on Deir Yassin shocked Jewish and world opinion alike, drove fear and panic into the Arab population, and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes all over the country."

Israeli author, Simha Flapan, "The Birth Of Israel"



Was Deir Yassin the only act of this kind?

"By 1948, the Jew was able not only to ‘defend himself’ but to commit massive atrocities as well. Indeed, according to the former director of the Israeli army archives, ‘in almost every Arab village occupied by us during the War of Independence, acts were committed which are defined as war crimes, such as murders, massacres and rapes’…Uri Milstein, the authoritative Israeli military historian of the 1948 war, goes one step further, maintaining that ‘every skirmish ended in a massacre of Arabs’ "

Norman Finkelstein, "Image and Reality
of the Israel-Palestine Conflict."

quoted in Sami Hadawi,"BitterHarvest.[/U]

The origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/jewsfjustice.cfm
Reply

HeiGou
08-01-2006, 10:01 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
I was thinking more long the lines of Britney Spears and Christine Aguleria... :rollseyes
I don't think LI's pro-Jihad posters would like to be compared to them at all!

(Although arguably Britney Spears has been working on her weapons of mass destruction, her vocals, for some time)

I think that LI needs to adopt Godwin's law which says that all threads end up talking about Hitler at which useful conversation ceases.
Reply

HeiGou
08-01-2006, 10:05 AM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
google chinese jews..believe me there are such a people as CHINESE JEWS..
Actually there is a mildly strong case that the Chinese Jewish community at Kaifeng is an invention of Christian missionary misunderstandings and they are actually Muslims.

and these jews want the whole world to think all of them are the descendants of the ancient Israelites.

how is a blonde haired blueeyed pasty skinned european a direct descendant of the ancient Israelites..is beyond me
So you are saying you cannot be a direct descendent of the ancient Jews if your Grandfather married a Chinese girl or adopted a Chinese boy or converted a Chinese slave who then married into the family or who sister was raped by a Chinese man? Genes flow in all sorts of ways and if you thought about the Muslim equivalent - say Sayyids - there was Black descendents of Muhammed, Persian ones, Indian ones, Chinese ones too for all I know. There are certainly Malay one. Are you saying that these people are lying?

Besides which Jews accept converts too.

truth is this..many people throughout the world who were practioners of polythiestic and pagan religions became attracted to the strict monotheism of Judaism..hence they converted to it..this explains the phenomenon of Chinese jews, european jews, South Indian jews etc..these people are the direct descendants of those converts to Judaism.
That is probably true for Moroccan and Ethiopian Jews. Maybe Yemeni Jews as well. But Chinese Jews claim to be descended from Jews who moved to China from the Middle East and have some records which suggest that may be true.

its strange that jews today say no one converted to Judaism..so im asking Lavikor this..do you deny that many people inside Isrel who call themselves jews maybe the descendants of converts to Judaism...do you deny that people converted to this religion?
Jews do not say that. Conversion is tough but it is not impossible even for the Ultra-Orthodox.
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-01-2006, 10:27 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou


So you are saying you cannot be a direct descendent of the ancient Jews if your Grandfather married a Chinese girl or adopted a Chinese boy or converted a Chinese slave who then married into the family or who sister was raped by a Chinese man? Genes flow in all sorts of ways and if you thought about the Muslim equivalent - say Sayyids - there was Black descendents of Muhammed, Persian ones, Indian ones, Chinese ones too for all I know. There are certainly Malay one. Are you saying that these people are lying?

Besides which Jews accept converts too.
that is possible i donot deny that..i dont see how though an adopted chinese boy upon adoption automatically becomes 'jewish' or the 'descendant of the anicent Israelites..hes chinese.

the other ignored possibility is that they are the descendants of converts..you will not here many jews tell you this...i did talk to a jewish person and after much discussion he did admit that some members of his family donot even remotely look like jews and that they and their ancestors are purely goyim..ie nonjew
Reply

Sis786
08-01-2006, 11:19 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
I don't think LI's pro-Jihad posters would like to be compared to them at all!

(Although arguably Britney Spears has been working on her weapons of mass destruction, her vocals, for some time)

I think that LI needs to adopt Godwin's law which says that all threads end up talking about Hitler at which useful conversation ceases.
:heated: (shudders at the thought of "Baby hit me one more time")

This thread started with Hitler, yet i still dont see where the comparison is because Hitler was an individual and yet Israel is a country...

btw i was comparing Israel and Hitler not the LI Pro-Jihad Posters...dont get me in trouble ok Heigou!:rollseyes
Reply

Abdul-Raouf
08-01-2006, 11:30 AM
[BANANA]my answer is agree[/BANANA] [MOUSE]israel = worser than hitler[/MOUSE]
Reply

HeiGou
08-01-2006, 11:32 AM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
that is possible i donot deny that..i dont see how though an adopted chinese boy upon adoption automatically becomes 'jewish' or the 'descendant of the anicent Israelites..hes chinese.
He would become a Chinese Jew. What is odd about that? Why don't you see it? A Jewish convert is a Jew like any other Jew. Notice that Chinese Muslims (Hui) have done exactly the same. They arrived as Persians and Turks. They are now Chinese.

the other ignored possibility is that they are the descendants of converts..you will not here many jews tell you this...i did talk to a jewish person and after much discussion he did admit that some members of his family donot even remotely look like jews and that they and their ancestors are purely goyim..ie nonjew
Few Jews would deny that. So?
Reply

S_87
08-01-2006, 12:53 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
Do you want to show the forum your serious lack of knowledge any further, by continuing to make your argument... Would you like to compare statistics, and causes of the violence in both cases. Please tell me if you would. I wouldnt mind completly proving you wrong in every single aspect of your argument.
hitler was a lunatic. when he fell that was just about end of his rule. many worked for him for fear not because they supportedhim
im israel leading is a bunch of lunatics all with same mind, blind hate, and not working for each other in fear but because they are all so sick in the head and want blood
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-01-2006, 02:04 PM
Salaam,


Who is a Jew?

The answer
[PIE]
It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship
[/PIE]


[PIE]First, traditional Judaism maintains that a person is a Jew if his mother is a Jew, regardless of who his father is. The liberal movements, on the other hand, consider a person to be Jewish if either of his parents was Jewish and the child was raised Jewish. Thus, if the child of a Jewish father and a Christian mother is raised Jewish, the child is a Jew according to the Reform movement, but not according to the Orthodox movement. On the other hand, if the child of a Christian father and a Jewish mother is not raised Jewish, the child is a Jew according to the Orthodox movement, but not according to the Reform movement! The matter becomes even more complicated, because the status of that children's children also comes into question.[/PIE]


http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm
Reply

guyabano
08-01-2006, 02:33 PM
according to Wikipedia:

Who is a Jew:
Judaism shares some of the characteristics of a nation, an ethnicity, a religion, and a culture, making the definition of who is a Jew vary slightly depending on whether a religious or national approach to identity is used. For discussions of the religious views on who is a Jew and how these views differ from each other, please see Who is a Jew?. Generally, in modern secular usage, Jews include three groups: people who practice Judaism and have a Jewish ethnic background (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), people without Jewish parents who have converted to Judaism; and those Jews who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jewish by virtue of their family's Jewish descent and their own cultural and historical identification with the Jewish people.

Historical definitions of Jewish identity have traditionally been based on Halakhic definitions of matrilineal descent, and halachic conversions. Historical definitions of who is a Jew date back to the codification of the oral tradition into the Babylonian Talmud. Biblical interpretations of sections in the Tanach, such as Deuteronomy 7:1-5, by learned Jewish sages, is used as a warning against intermarriage between Jews and non Jews because "[the non-Jewish male spouse] will cause your child to turn away from Me and they will worship the gods of others." Leviticus 24:10 speaks of the son in a marriage between a Hebrew woman and an Egyptian man to be "of the community of Israel.", which contrasts with Ezra 10:2-3, where Israelites returning from Egypt, vowed to put aside their gentile wives and their children. Since the Haskalah, these halakhic interpretations of Jewish identity have been challenged.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew#Who_is_a_Jew.3F
Reply

Geronimo
08-01-2006, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by Link
Their is evidence that shows this. I believe this is the case as does Khamanei (ha).

The evidence is never discussed or refuted, people will just go with the propaganda, getting old people to tell stories that you can find flaws in almost each one, they don't have real evidence, the whole chemical story and them turning into ashes is just because there are no mass graves, etc, all thought up to compensate for lack of evidence.

But their are documents showing all kind of evidence about jews getting the ISraeli state before the war, and they will never show this in history classes in the west.
So all those pics I posted were fakes? I got tons more if you need proof
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
08-01-2006, 03:24 PM
i wasnt alive to witness the time of hitler but im alive to witness the time of israel's unjust destruction. It seems like there out to kill whoever they can get there hands on, UNLIKE HITLER they dont make there enemies clear. Hitler clearly wanted all jews dead, but we arent going to have israel announcing there desire to see a world without muslims are we :rollseyes


i base my opinion on the probability that israelli's are zionists at large !
Reply

Geronimo
08-01-2006, 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
This guy went out to hitler to buy weapons so he can fight the zionist state that zionists were planning to creat in Palestine at that time... he was looking forward to STOP them before doing it.

another prove that Arabs never approved or accepted the zionist state in Palestine...

we would accept the zionists existence if they would have created their own state in any other country such as Canada and US as they are friends with them and both have so much free space to share... we should not be forced to accept others while don't want to divide our lands and holy places.
No he went there to help get rid of all the Jew. Al-Husyani had led riots against jews prior to seeing hitler. He begged Hitler to let him join the SS:

Upon al-Husayni's arrival in Europe, he met the German Foreign Minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop on November 20, 1941 and was officially received by Adolf Hitler on November 28, 1941 in Berlin. He asked Hitler for a public declaration that "recognized and sympathized with the Arab struggles for independence and liberation, and that it would support the elimination of a national Jewish homeland". Earlier, al-Hussayni submitted to the German government a draft of such a declaration, containing a clause:

Germany and Italy recognize the right of the Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements, which exist in Palestine and in the other Arab countries, as required by the national and ethnic (völkisch) interests of the Arabs, and as the Jewish question was solved in Germany and Italy.
When the Red Cross offered to mediate with Adolf Eichmann in a trade prisoner-of-war exchange involving the freeing of German citizens in exchange for 5,000 Jewish children being sent from Poland to the Theresienstadt concentration camp, Husseini directly intervened with Himmler and the exchange was cancelled
Among the sabotage al-Husayni organized was an attempted chemical warfare assault on the second largest and predominantly Jewish city in Palestine, Tel Aviv. Five parachutists were sent with a toxin to dump into the water system. The police caught the infiltrators in a cave near Jericho, and according to Jericho district police commander Fayiz Bey Idrissi, "The laboratory report stated that each container held enough poison to kill 25,000 people, and there were at least ten containers."
Recent Nazi documents uncovered in the German Minstry of Foreign Affairs and the Military Archive Service in Freiburg [6] by two researchers, Klaus Michael Mallmann from Stuttgart University and Martin Cüppers from the University of Ludwigsburg, indicated that in the event of the British being defeated in Egypt by Field Marshal Erwin Rommel's Afrika Korps the Nazis had planned to deploy a special unit called Einsatzkommando Ägypten to exterminate Palestinian Jews and that they wanted Arab support to prevent the emergence of a Jewish state. In their book the researchers concluded that, "the most important collaborator with the Nazis and an absolute Arab anti-Semite was Haj Amin al-Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem".[[7] According to the German researchers Husayni was a prime example of how Arabs and Nazis became friends out of a hatred of Jews. Al-Husseini had met several times with Adolf Eichmann[8], Adolf Hitler's chief architect of the Holocaust [4]
Reply

Geronimo
08-01-2006, 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

As you like to rehash history then pls azk yourself,what was the first act by Jews who entered palestine?

And you assertion that the 1 million jews of your family in palestine and the mufti of jerusalem already show that there were already people in that land.
So tell me,of what right did the UN have to displace the Muslim and Chrsiitan and give the land to jews?

So in the end as you ahve wisely pointed out,it all begin with the creation of Israel....all this bloodshed and hatered..

All becasue of Israel.
Would you rahter want peace in palestine under muslim rule when Jews christians and muslim lived in peace..
Or would you rahter continue to deprive muslima dn chrsitian their holy places and their land just so that you can have your messiah and temple?

At what cost to arabs muslim and christian will it suffice for you?

To that end,the war will end one way or another,Allah is the best of planners,as Israel tries to murder arabs women ,but muslim will still strive.

As another post said,more and converting and more of them are women.,Inshallah,Isreal will be a coutnry by muslim to protect jews and chrisitan.,.
Umm they didn't live in peace. Al-Husyani and Irgun were established well before Israel became a state.
Reply

Geronimo
08-01-2006, 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
i hope you read my posts above..Israel encouraged the arabs to stay? what did Ben Gurion your first president say?..he said 'drive the arabs out'

but its cool if you choose to ignore..the history books are out there and ive quoted from them
I think history books say otherwise:
http://www.varchive.org/obs/481130.htm
Large numbers of the Arab population fled the newly-created Jewish State during the Palestinian exodus. Many historians suggest that the Palestinians fled due to orders from Arab generals. Many Palestinians left under the belief that the Arab armies would prevail and they would return.[8] Moreover, Israel offered many of the Palestinians an opportunity to live and take citizenship in Israel, but many refused
Reply

Geronimo
08-01-2006, 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
google chinese jews..believe me there are such a people as CHINESE JEWS..

and these jews want the whole world to think all of them are the descendants of the ancient Israelites.

how is a blonde haired blueeyed pasty skinned european a direct descendant of the ancient Israelites..is beyond me

truth is this..many people throughout the world who were practioners of polythiestic and pagan religions became attracted to the strict monotheism of Judaism..hence they converted to it..this explains the phenomenon of Chinese jews, european jews, South Indian jews etc..these people are the direct descendants of those converts to Judaism.

its strange that jews today say no one converted to Judaism..so im asking Lavikor this..do you deny that many people inside Isrel who call themselves jews maybe the descendants of converts to Judaism...do you deny that people converted to this religion?
There are black Jews in Africa so what? There were many tribes of Jews that had different characteristics including the lost tribes (the one in Africa is a lost tribe). People in that area can be of any skin color.
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-02-2006, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Geronimo
I think history books say otherwise:
http://www.varchive.org/obs/481130.htm

Large numbers of the Arab population fled the newly-created Jewish State during the Palestinian exodus. Many historians suggest that the Palestinians fled due to orders from Arab generals. Many Palestinians left under the belief that the Arab armies would prevail and they would return.[8] Moreover, Israel offered many of the Palestinians an opportunity to live and take citizenship in Israel, but many refused
This shows you havent read the posts above..don continue to parrot Israeli and Colonial propaganda

Arab orders to evacuate nonexistent

"The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) monitored all Middle Eastern broadcasts throughout 1948 was ‘self-inspired’. The records, and companion ones by a United States monitoring unit, can be seen at the British museum… There was not a single order or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine, from any Arab radio station, inside or outside Palestine, in 1948. There is a repeated monitored record of Arab appeals, even flat orders, to the civilians of Palestine to stay put."

Erskine Childers, British researcher,
quoted in Sami Hadawi, Biter Harvest


Also im reposting what i said earlier ..for some of the 'feeble' members of this forum like Gerinimo

Expulsion of the Arab population of Palestine

"Joseph Weitz was the director of the Jewish National Land Fund… On December 19, 1940, he wrote: ‘It must be clear that there is no room for both peoples in this country… The Zionist enterprise so far… has been fine and good in its own time, and could do with ‘land buying’ – but this will not bring about the state of Israel; that must come all at once, in the manner of a salvation (this is the secret of the Messianic idea); and there is no way besides transferring the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries, to transfer them all; except maybe for Bethlehem, Nazareth and Old Jerusalem, we must not leave a single village, not as single tribe’…There were literally hundreds of such statements made by Zionists."

Palestinian Christian ,Edward Said , in "The Question of Palestine."
Expulsion – continued


"Ben- Gurion clearly wanted as few Arabs as possible to remain in the Jewish state. He hoped to see them flee. He said as much to his colleagues and aides in meetings in August, September and October [1948]. But no [general] expulsion policy was ever enunciated and Ben-Gurion always refrained from issuing clear or written expulsion orders; he preferred that his generals ‘understand’ what he wanted done. He wished to avoid going down in history as the ‘great expeller’ and he did not want the Israeli government to be implicated in a morally questionable policyBut while there was no ‘expulsion policy’, the July and October [1948] offensives were characterized by far more expulsions and, indeed, brutality towards Arab civilians than the first half of the war."

Benny Morris, "The Birth of the
Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949.



Didn’t the Palestinians leave their homes voluntarily during the 1948 war?

"Israeli propaganda has largely relinquished the claim that the Palestinian exodus of 1948 was ‘self-inspired’. Official circles implicitly concede that the Arab population fled as a result of Israeli action – whether directly, as in the case of Lydda and Ramleh, or indirectly, due to the panic that and similar actions (the Deir Yassin massacre) inspired in Arab population centers throughout Palestine. However, even though the historical record has been grudgingly set straight, the Israeli establishment still refuses to accept moral or political responsibility for the refugee problem it – or its predecessors – actively created."

Peretz Kidron, quoted in "Blaming The Victims,"
ed. Said and Hitchens.


Expulsion – continued
"That Ben Gurion`s ultimate aim was to evacuate as much of the Arab population as possible from the Jewish state can hardly be doubted, if only from the variety of means he employed to achieve this purpose…most decisively, the destruction of whole villages and the eviction of their inhabitants …even [if] they had not participated in the war and had stayed in Israel hoping to live in peace and equality, as promised in the Declaration of Independence."

Israeli author, Sinha Flapan, "The Birth Of Israel"

http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/jewsfjustice.cfm
Reply

Nablus
08-02-2006, 03:08 PM
Israel doesnt have alike for her

Israel and united States are the same coin they evacuated the original citizens from their land
Reply

nennar
08-02-2006, 03:10 PM
Israel doesnt have alike for her

Israel and united States are the same coin they evacuated the original citizens from their land
you are so right!!!!!!!!!!
Reply

Geronimo
08-02-2006, 03:13 PM
The records, and companion ones by a United States monitoring unit, can be seen at the British museum
If you would have went to the link it's a newspaper article from 1948 from the NY Times. Are they lying now?
Reply

Geronimo
08-02-2006, 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by Nablus
Israel doesnt have alike for her

Israel and united States are the same coin they evacuated the original citizens from their land
Um no. My people sold them the land. At the time we thought we got the better of the deal because we figured you couldn't own the land anymore than you could own the sky. The only presidents that were trully horrible to us was Van Buren and Jackson.
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scentsofjannah
08-02-2006, 03:19 PM
to make way for the jews there was a neccessity to vacate the land....ethnic cleansing was a prerequisite for the establishment of the 'jewish' nation..and the state had to be a state for only JEWS..Gerinimo needs to get that into his head.

but Israel exists now..its a reality..we're not saying to all the jews who were born and bred there to suddenly pack up No what we're saying is give up the occupied territories..release all the innocent prisoners in Israeli jails ( 8000 in total some 400 children also are held there) and many prisoners didnt even stand trial to prove their innocence

the refugees should return too as the U.N said in many of its resolutions.

a free Palestinian State can be established.
Reply

Geronimo
08-02-2006, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
to make way for the jews there was a neccessity to vacate the land....ethnic cleansing was a prerequisite for the establishment of the 'jewish' nation..and the state had to be a state for only JEWS..Gerinimo needs to get that into his head.

but Israel exists now..its a reality..we're not saying to all the jews who were born and bred there to suddenly pack up No what we're saying is give up the occupied territories..release all the innocent prisoners in Israeli jails ( 8000 in total some 400 children also are held there) and many prisoners didnt even stand trial to prove their innocence

the refugees should return too as the U.N said in many of its resolutions.

a free Palestinian State can be established.
There are Israeli Arabs in the Israeli Parliament so right there your arguments of it being only Jews falls apart. I say you can have Israel back as soona as you give Pakistan back and give up all claims to Indonesia and Spain. I think that's a fair trade.
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-02-2006, 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Geronimo
There are Israeli Arabs in the Israeli Parliament so right there your arguments of it being only Jews falls apart. I say you can have Israel back as soona as you give Pakistan back and give up all claims to Indonesia and Spain. I think that's a fair trade.

when did i ever deny there are Palestinians INSIDE israel? i said Israel was a state for jews only..it was created for that purpose and yes most of the arabs call themselves Palestinians (except for the druze)..including the Minister in the Israeli Knesset AZMI BSHARA..he said 'its not us that went to Israel..its Israel that came to us'

Israel exists this is a fact..we can only pray that what ever remains of the Palestinian territories are liberated..this is in Israel's interests too as many people including many jews within Israel and abroad are becoming fed up with the occupation.

InshaAllah a day will come when Arab Muslim or Arab Christian, as well as Jews can live together in peace and harmony..its important you become a voice of goodwill and compassion and a force for good.
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-02-2006, 03:31 PM
I'm asking Gerinimo

is ending the occupation too much to ask?
Reply

Geronimo
08-02-2006, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
I'm asking Gerinimo

is ending the occupation too much to ask?
Depends on what you consider occupation
Reply

Geronimo
08-02-2006, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
when did i ever deny there are Palestinians INSIDE israel? i said Israel was a state for jews only..it was created for that purpose and yes most of the arabs call themselves Palestinians (except for the druze)..including the Minister in the Israeli Knesset AZMI BSHARA..he said 'its not us that went to Israel..its Israel that came to us'

Israel exists this is a fact..we can only pray that what ever remains of the Palestinian territories are liberated..this is in Israel's interests too as many people including many jews within Israel and abroad are becoming fed up with the occupation.

InshaAllah a day will come when Arab Muslim or Arab Christian, as well as Jews can live together in peace and harmony..its important you become a voice of goodwill and compassion and a force for good.
There's an Isreali Arab right here on this board and I've never seen him call himself a palestinian.
Reply

lavikor201
08-02-2006, 04:44 PM
Is there a minister of congress that is Jewish in any of the Muslim states? Of course not. Only in Israel will you find a country that elects leaders so equaly and not based on religion.
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Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 04:49 PM
yo people... you are ruining my thread .... :D

why do we have to discuss that such stuff in this thread...

Please read my note i have posted about this thread as people in here and opening more doors just to blame Islam, Arabs, Palestinian... etc. to prove to us that israel is allways a poor victim.

Please stop
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lavikor201
08-02-2006, 04:52 PM
We are ruining your thread which makes the illogical claim that Israel = Hitler?

The statement that Israel = Hitler not only has no factual base, but would probably get you into an insane assylum in most countries.
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Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
Is there a minister of congress that is Jewish in any of the Muslim states? Of course not. Only in Israel will you find a country that elects leaders so equaly and not based on religion.
oh yeah... Arabs are only in the Knesset and they are always against what your government does, but NO body listnes to them and the votes are always against those Arabs.

so they are only there so just people like you can post such statements trying to prove that israel is fair...

any way we don't really have to disscuss this here, the thing of this radical state is diffrent than any other Muslim country which you can't compare between them what so ever.
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Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 04:59 PM
.......
Reply

Geronimo
08-02-2006, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
Is there a minister of congress that is Jewish in any of the Muslim states? Of course not. Only in Israel will you find a country that elects leaders so equaly and not based on religion.
There is in Iran
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Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
We are ruining your thread which makes the illogical claim that Israel = Hitler?

The statement that Israel = Hitler not only has no factual base, but would probably get you into an insane assylum in most countries.
It doesn't seem that you have read this... if you did... again read it one more time so you can understand where my claim came from.

Clarification about "israel = hitler" thread
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Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
The statement that Israel = Hitler not only has no factual base
look at these pictures that was sent to me by e-mail.. Majority is comparing israel with nazi's not only me...

The Nazi bombing of London in 1941 - The Israeli bombing of Lebanon in 2006





here is the source.

http://www.netlebanon.com/LebAttacks2006/

ENJOY
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Geronimo
08-02-2006, 05:56 PM
Are we comparing pics now?






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Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 06:23 PM
Yes we are... and you can't even beat what i have posted... not to mention that those picts you have posted are AFTER the terrorist israeli attacks on Lebanon.

you can't even prove that the majority doesn't believe that those criminal are like nazi's...

websites have spoken, People have spoken throw media's, and finally a non-Muslim prime minister have said it him self...
Again I have quoted this from Venezuela prime minister "Presidents Chavez".

so no matter what you do, you can't hide that or cover it with some lies and picts.

P.S: Hezb Allah's target against israel is to make as much loss on the israeli side, which he's actually doing and i can see it finally throw your picts since israel is imposing strict control over the media so they can hide thier losses... thanks for sharing.

isral have said they wanted to destroy Hezb Allah, they have destroyed Lebanon but not Hezb Allah, they have killed more than 800 civilians but not hezb Allah, they have killed children while they are sleeping in shelters but not Hezb Allah.

israel is nothing but a big LIE.
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searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad


isral have said they wanted to destroy Hezb Allah, they have destroyed Lebanon but not Hezb Allah, they have killed more than 800 civilians but not hezb Allah, they have killed children while they are sleeping in shelters but not Hezb Allah.

And the Hezbollah charter states that they want complete destruction of Israel and no compromise. Sounds to me like Hezbollah has the war they've been pining for, but are losing the war.

israel is nothing but a big LIE.

And ignoring the stated goals of Hezbollah is deceptive.
:) :) :)
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MRR
08-02-2006, 06:32 PM
Chavez!? LOL!!
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MRR
08-02-2006, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
israel is nothing but a big LIE.
A lie with a powerful military that has not been defeated in many attempts by it's arab country neighbors.
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Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by MRR
A lie with a powerful military that has not been defeated in many attempts by it's arab country neighbors.
yup, but they are defeated now by Hezb Allah who doesn't have what israel have, that is why the war didn't stop till now, bcz basically Hezb Allah till this moment are able to lunch rocket on israel... which pissing this powerful army who think that they are undefeatable off... if the war continues like that, Hezb Allah might satart lunching rockets on Tel Aviv, and israel will be responsible for that when this happens.

the differences between both that Hezb Allah are right-holders unlike israel who is nothing but a fake power that is loosing control.
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searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
yup, but they are defeated now by Hezb Allah who doesn't have what israel have, that is why the war didn't stop till now, bcz basically Hezb Allah till this moment are able to lunch rocket on israel... which pissing this powerful army who think that they are undefeatable off... if the war continues like that, Hezb Allah might satart lunching rockets on Tel Aviv, and israel will be responsible for that when this happens.

the differences between both that Hezb Allah are right-holders unlike israel who is nothing but a fake power that is loosing control.
Do you really think that hezbollah is currently defeating Israel?
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MRR
08-02-2006, 06:48 PM
Lunching on rockets? Wouldn't that be hard on the teeth? I am sure you would break teeth off if you tried to lunch on a rocket.
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MRR
08-02-2006, 06:49 PM
Hezbollah are getting spanked.
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Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 07:09 PM
Israel wars usually doesn't take more than 10 to 15 days..

this is the longest war in the history of israel who has a powerful military like that... meaning that by thier power they are not able till this moment to achieve their goals, which are:
:: destroy Hezb Allah
:: disarm Hezb Allah
:: force Lebanese people and their government not to support Hezb Allah or else they will kill them.

Hezb Allah is still their and they are even lunching more rockets than before... that is a loss for israel
since Hezb Allah is still lunching rockets, that means that their rockets have not been destroyed not even 5% of them.. that is another loss for israel.
800 Lebanese people have been killed, after all that, those people and those who have even survived from the massacres are still till this moment support Hezb Allah even though they have lost their kids and families.
the biggest example was the video i have posted about the guy who lives in the israeli side not Lebanon and his two kids have died bcz of Hezb Allah, and he still support Hezb Allah. another loss for israel. not to mention that Lebanese government fully support Hezb Allah and doesn't want to un arm them TILL their will be seas fire so they can think about it.

that clearly means that israel didn't achieve any thing in this war but killing civilians which is not really victroy.
Reply

MRR
08-02-2006, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
Israel wars usually doesn't take more than 10 to 15 days..

this is the longest war in the history of israel who has a powerful military like that... meaning that by thier power they are not able till this moment to achieve their goals, which are:
:: destroy Hezb Allah
:: disarm Hezb Allah
:: force Lebanese people and their government not to support Hezb Allah or else they will kill them.

Hezb Allah is still their and they are even lunching more rockets than before... that is a loss for israel
since Hezb Allah is still lunching rockets, that means that their rockets have not been destroyed not even 5% of them.. that is another loss for israel.
800 Lebanese people have been killed, after all that, those people and those who have even survived from the massacres are still till this moment support Hezb Allah even though they have lost their kids and families.
the biggest example was the video i have posted about the guy who lives in the israeli side not Lebanon and his two kids have died bcz of Hezb Allah, and he still support Hezb Allah. another loss for israel. not to menti9on that Lebanese government support Hezb Allah and doesn't want to un arm them TILL their will be seas fire so they can think about it.

that clearly means that israel didn't achieve any thing in this war but killing civilians which is not really victroy.
That's like claiming five minutes into a football game that a championship team has always scored in the first five minutes, therefore they have lost this game. Illogical.
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nennar
08-02-2006, 07:37 PM
geronimo how old are you!...... wich tribe do you come from?????

so you sold the land you meant you couldnt own????? but you could sell it??????? "for the better deal"? what did you get????? what did your forefathers get?..... tell me please.... because then all we have read and still read about what "the white" did it just wasent so bad???????
Reply

lavikor201
08-02-2006, 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
oh yeah... Arabs are only in the Knesset and they are always against what your government does, but NO body listnes to them and the votes are always against those Arabs.

so they are only there so just people like you can post such statements trying to prove that israel is fair...

any way we don't really have to disscuss this here, the thing of this radical state is diffrent than any other Muslim country which you can't compare between them what so ever.
Completly untrue. Again Lammagad you ahve abo----ly no clue about you speak about.

Most are in support of Israel, especially after they killed an Arab child! You have no fact and no base to any of your statements!!!
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kadafi
08-02-2006, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by Geronimo
There are Israeli Arabs in the Israeli Parliament so right there your arguments of it being only Jews falls apart. I say you can have Israel back as soona as you give Pakistan back and give up all claims to Indonesia and Spain. I think that's a fair trade.
Israeli Arabs MPs are subjected to discrimination and racial slur in the Parliament not to mention that the Israeli Arabs are being treated as second-class citizens in Israel.
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kadafi
08-02-2006, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
Completly untrue. Again Lammagad you ahve abo----ly no clue about you speak about.

Most are in support of Israel, especially after they killed an Arab child! You have no fact and no base to any of your statements!!!
Actually, not quite. A recent protest shows that they still oppose Israel.

Israeli-Arabs: Israeli gov't bloodthirsty

Thousands of Israeli-Arabs across the north protested the ongoing Israeli offensive in Lebanon and the killing of over 55 civilians in an Israeli air strike on the Lebanese village of Qana.

-
Although the demonstration was peaceful, bystanders expressed their anger at the government's refusal to accept a ceasefire.

More at http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...284423,00.html
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ManchesterFolk
08-02-2006, 07:55 PM
Thats pics of WWII.... a War! Not the Holocaust. That looks like Disney Land compared to the Holocaust.
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Kidman
08-02-2006, 07:58 PM
Reply

searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 08:08 PM
Originally Posted by Kidman
I can see some truth to your check list. But the situation would be different if Hezbollah wouldn't fight like cowards.
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Kidman
08-02-2006, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I can see some truth to your check list. But the situation would be different if Hezbollah wouldn't fight like cowards.
:) And they are fighting like cowards how?

They are the ones with no air force or planes... they can only fight on ground. When Israel doesn't enter on ground and just bombs them from above, so in retaliation Hezbollah shoots rockets into Israel, you call that cowardly.

Wow, or don't tell me, you think they are hiding behind children when fighting huh? That's all BS... watch what happens now that Israel actually came in on ground... last time that happened they suffored great losses by Hezbollah, and now they sent 8,000 troops.
You can say what you want, because i know your going to say things like "Hezbollah hides behind their civilians, blah blah" which is not true, they are trying to protect the lebanese people by all means, they would never use them as shields as ignorant people here proclaim.

Kidman
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searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by Kidman
:) And they are fighting like cowards how?

They are the ones with no air force or planes... they can only fight on ground. When Israel doesn't enter on ground and just bombs them from above, so in retaliation Hezbollah shoots rockets into Israel, you call that cowardly.

Wow, or don't tell me, you think they are hiding behind children when fighting huh? That's all BS... watch what happens now that Israel actually came in on ground... last time that happened they suffored great losses by Hezbollah, and now they sent 8,000 troops.
You can say what you want, because i know your going to say things like "Hezbollah hides behind their civilians, blah blah" which is not true, they are trying to protect the lebanese people by all means, they would never use them as shields as ignorant people here proclaim.

Kidman
I'll check out some of the threads trying to refute Hezbollah hiding among the citizens of Lebanon, and see if my opinion changes.
Reply

Kidman
08-02-2006, 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I'll check out some of the threads trying to refute Hezbollah hiding among the citizens of Lebanon, and see if my opinion changes.
That's all you can do... :) I like you because you are very open-minded. Where one person would fight just because they want to always be right, you would actually do research.

That is with everything... once you believe something you should still always be researching and finding out the truth and leave your mind open... and once you believe something then you must follow it.

The first message delivered to our beloved prophet was "Read"

Kidman
Reply

S_87
08-02-2006, 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I can see some truth to your check list. But the situation would be different if Hezbollah wouldn't fight like cowards.
i think cowardice is israel bombing up over air. easy way out
Reply

MRR
08-02-2006, 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by Kidman
The first message delivered to our beloved prophet was "Read"
??? Was he being instructed to learn to read?
Reply

MRR
08-02-2006, 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by amani
i think cowardice is israel bombing up over air. easy way out
If two pro fighters are going into the boxing ring to fight, and one is bigger and stronger with a longer reach, does it make sense for him to tie one arm behind his back to fight "fair"? Rediculous. If you are in a fight (or war), you use your advantages to win. Simple. It would be illogical and unwise for Israel to fight without using their superior might to their advantage.
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lavikor201
08-02-2006, 08:47 PM
And they are fighting like cowards how?
Firing rockets and provoking Israel to fire back at you as you take cover behind buildings with women and children in it are what I think to fight like a coward is.
Reply

Kidman
08-02-2006, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by MRR
??? Was he being instructed to learn to read?
To learn to read, and to read, and do reasearch and become more knowledgable in every aspect.

kidman
Reply

MRR
08-02-2006, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
You have mistaken me for Mel Gibson :D
You both have a kind of rugged charm about you.
Reply

MRR
08-02-2006, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Kidman
To learn to read, and to read, and do reasearch and become more knowledgable in every aspect.

kidman
Why did he not do as commanded? He died illiterate didn't he?
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Isaac
08-02-2006, 09:16 PM
look peope should just take a lil breather and not get personal. The only reason why people are getting personal is because of their emotions. so just take a lil brather instead of calling people nazi. well the only nazi i can see is the one who is leading this war of terror on the lebanese people.
Reply

kadafi
08-02-2006, 09:19 PM
This is a gentle reminder that members should refrain from using any insults whether justified or not. Please keep the discussion civilised or I'll be forced to lock it.
Reply

nennar
08-02-2006, 09:28 PM
and it justify it?????????????????
Reply

Geronimo
08-02-2006, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by nennar
and it justify it?????????????????
You just reacted out of anger does not lavi deserve the same consideration?
Reply

nennar
08-02-2006, 09:30 PM
so we are all nazis, murderes, and total ignorant when we dont find what israel is doing and have done for the past 50 years good and right?????????
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Looking4Peace
08-02-2006, 09:33 PM
^^^ yup thats what he means, hes a self hating native and zionist butt kisser what u expect, gotta give it to him that hes one of a kind.
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MRR
08-02-2006, 09:35 PM
Originally Posted by nennar
so we are all nazis, murderes, and total ignorant when we dont find what israel is doing and have done for the past 50 years good and right?????????
You are obviously combining a condemnation of racist comments with another topic.
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Kidman
08-02-2006, 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by MRR
Why did he not do as commanded? He died illiterate didn't he?
No, He grew up illiterate and when he recieved the first message he was illiterate. Also, he passed this along to many people and held literacy high, so much that if a Prisoner of war taught 10 illiterate muslims to read and write they would set him free.

Kidman
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lavikor201
08-02-2006, 10:41 PM
Lets stay on topic:

Do any of you actualy have the guts and try to prove to me that Israel = Hitler and more as many of you did vote.

So try and prove it... Show me the numbers. Give me the proof!

I'm waiting.
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Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by MRR
If two pro fighters are going into the boxing ring to fight, and one is bigger and stronger with a longer reach, does it make sense for him to tie one arm behind his back to fight "fair"? Rediculous. If you are in a fight (or war), you use your advantages to win. Simple. It would be illogical and unwise for Israel to fight without using their superior might to their advantage.
Exactly, and this is how you are proving that they are totally loosing... they are MUCH MORE stronger than Hezb Allah... but aren't able to achieve their goals in this false war.
with that false power that they are using they are trying their best to achieve any thing in the ground but they can't handle Hezb Allah's fighters and keep running away like mouses....

if israel have achieved their gaols. this war would have ended long time ago...

Hezb Allah is not getting their prisoners and Shib'a farm till after the seas fire... they are just proceeding in this war bcz israel is not stopping... if israel would stop then Hezb Allah will.
The fact is Hezb Allah is still awake and live, and they are fighting them in the ground bravely.

But let me ask you a question about your smart example you have provided us...
How long do you think this fighter can hold him self infront of the bigger and stronger fighter with a longer reach in this boxing ring?!? since he's stronger than the other fighter is done withen 40 minuets maximum.. and the stronger fighter will win for sure in no time.
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Woodrow
08-02-2006, 11:07 PM
I just deleted a number of posts that were either attacking other members by name, or containing quotes of attacks on other members by name.

The thread is fairly well cleaned up at the moment.

This is the last gentle house cleaning I will do on this thread.
Reply

Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 11:12 PM
Do any of you actualy have the guts and try to prove to me that Israel = Hitler and more as many of you did vote.

So try and prove it... Show me the numbers. Give me the proof!

I'm waiting.
LOL, its something called Google. You may start with Wikipedia and HRW.
Reply

Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 11:39 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
Lets stay on topic:

Do any of you actualy have the guts and try to prove to me that Israel = Hitler and more as many of you did vote.

So try and prove it... Show me the numbers. Give me the proof!

I'm waiting.
I did.... MANY times...
but since you asked for it... here is it again..

:: Venezuela prime minister "President Chavez" who is non-Muslims have said it clearly over an interview...
:: all the protesters in the Islamic countries and some what in the western countries, are holding poster were they are linking israeli star with hitler's sign.
:: many many websites over the Internet are comparing israel with hitler and linking them together.
I have posted some pictures in one of my posts... check it your self
http://www.islamicboard.com/431152-post165.html
:: Majority here have voted that israe is even worse than hitler.
Originally Posted by Kidman
lavikor201, i really don't get your point when you are acting like that.. what numbers do you want us to prove to you? does israel have to kill as much as hitler have killed so they can be alike..? is that how you are comparing?

your military is using phosphoric bombs and chemical bombs in Gaza... do you know what does those chemical bombs do to the human body?!?!
those weapons are forbidden by the united nations
here is a file that was sent to the whole world showing the picture of those bombs that has been used against civilians in Palestine.
http://www.e-palestinetalk.ca/files/TheTruth11.pps

israel is much worse than hitler.. and you should be shamed of your government so others can respect you.

go google it your self and see the acts of zionists towards Arabs...
Reply

searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 11:41 PM
[S]israel is much worse than hitler.. and you should be shamed of your government so others can respect you.

go google it your self and see the acts of zionists towards Arabs your self...[/S]


In your opinion, are the Palestinians at fault for anything?
Reply

Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 11:45 PM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
[S]israel is much worse than hitler.. and you should be shamed of your government so others can respect you.

go google it your self and see the acts of zionists towards Arabs your self...[/S]


In your opinion, are the Palestinians at fault for anything?
ofcourse not... They are right-holders

The fault came out from the Arabs leader who have betrayed us...

Palestinian now are doing the right thing.. Resistance against occupation.
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searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
ofcourse not... They are right-holders

The fault came out from the Arabs leader who have betrayed us...

Palestinian now are doing the right this.. Resistance against occupation.
Palestinian Arab leaders? Or Arab leaders of other countries?
Reply

Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Palestinian Arab leaders? Or Arab leaders of other countries?
oh boy.. what diffrences does it make to you..?! i will ansewr your question.. but what is your point?!?
Reply

Lamaggad
08-02-2006, 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I just deleted a number of posts that were either attacking other members by name, or containing quotes of attacks on other members by name.

The thread is fairly well cleaned up at the moment.

This is the last gentle house cleaning I will do on this thread.
Thanks man.. you are the best :)
Reply

searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 11:53 PM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
oh boy.. what diffrences does it make to you..?! i will ansewr your question.. but what is your point?!?
At this point, I have no point. I was just curious. You don't have to answer it if you don't want to. I'm just trying to better understand your unwavering devotion toward Palestine.
Reply

Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 11:56 PM
Down with Israel!!
Reply

MRR
08-03-2006, 12:02 AM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
Exactly, and this is how you are proving that they are totally loosing... they are MUCH MORE stronger than Hezb Allah... but aren't able to achieve their goals in this false war.
with that false power that they are using they are trying their best to achieve any thing in the ground but they can't handle Hezb Allah's fighters and keep running away like mouses....

if israel have achieved their gaols. this war would have ended long time ago...

Hezb Allah is not getting their prisoners and Shib'a farm till after the seas fire... they are just proceeding in this war bcz israel is not stopping... if israel would stop then Hezb Allah will.
The fact is Hezb Allah is still awake and live, and they are fighting them in the ground bravely.

But let me ask you a question about your smart example you have provided us...
How long do you think this fighter can hold him self infront of the bigger and stronger fighter with a longer reach in this boxing ring?!? since he's stronger than the other fighter is done withen 40 minuets maximum.. and the stronger fighter will win for sure in no time.
I have two questions for you.
What is your definition of a win for Hezbollah? And, what is your definition of losing for Hezbollah?
Reply

Zionazi_Dissent
08-03-2006, 12:05 AM
Hezbollah: freedom fights

For Hezbollah, surviving is winning. The longer they can stand Israel, the longer they are winning. It's the same case as the last time hezbollah and Israel fought. Hezbollah won.
Reply

MRR
08-03-2006, 12:11 AM
Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
Hezbollah: freedom fights

For Hezbollah, surviving is winning. The longer they can stand Israel, the longer they are winning. It's the same case as the last time hezbollah and Israel fought. Hezbollah won.
This was the anticipated answer (although I thought it would come from Lammaggad). But that doesn't seem like much of a victory really. Merely surviving is winning? Hmm. So, how about question number two, don't be lazy now.
Reply

Keltoi
08-03-2006, 01:12 AM
In my opinion, there can be no victory for Hezbollah in this situation. Israel is pushing Hezbollah back towards the north, creating the groundwork for a buffer zone to be enforced by some international entity. The only way Hezbollah could declare victory, although they will claim victory in any case, would be if they physically push Israel out of southern Lebanon. This is unlikely since Israel doesn't have the intention to occupy territory, therefore they are focused on fighting Hezbollah and not standing at checkpoints.
Reply

Lamaggad
08-03-2006, 02:05 AM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
At this point, I have no point. I was just curious. You don't have to answer it if you don't want to. I'm just trying to better understand your unwavering devotion toward Palestine.
I can discuss this leaders thing with you in a different thread or pms if you want.

I hope that you will understand bcz what i see from you is that you are trying to blame Palestinians...
Reply

Lamaggad
08-03-2006, 02:08 AM
Originally Posted by MRR
I have two questions for you.
What is your definition of a win for Hezbollah? And, what is your definition of losing for Hezbollah?
answer my question first and then I'll answer yours.
Reply

searchingsoul
08-03-2006, 02:11 AM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
I can discuss this leaders thing with you in a different thread or pms if you want.

I hope that you will understand bcz what i see from you is that you are trying to blame Palestinians...
Thanks. I created thread http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...tml#post431853
Reply

Lamaggad
08-03-2006, 04:19 AM
By the way people... i just want to make it VERY CLEAR, that when I'm talking about israel, I'm talking about the zionist state...
I'm against zionists not Jews and my comments and complains are always directed to zionists SPECIFICALLY... therefor it should be very clear that i do not believe that Jews are worse than Hitler or can be compared to Hitler... bcz a good number of Jews does support our rights, and condemn whats happening in Lebanon...

I'm against zionists who discriminate Arabs and accept for them to be killed in cold blood like whats happening in Gaza and Lebanon.

P.S: no need for any one to teach me that Jew is zionist and zionist is a Jew, if you think it's the same, that's fine and keep it to your self.. i really don't care... for me i believe that their is a huge difference between them.
Reply

MRR
08-03-2006, 07:18 AM
Originally Posted by MRR
I have two questions for you.
What is your definition of a win for Hezbollah? And, what is your definition of losing for Hezbollah?
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
answer my question first and then I'll answer yours.
Ok, sure.
Your question,
But let me ask you a question about your smart example you have provided us...
How long do you think this fighter can hold him self infront of the bigger and stronger fighter with a longer reach in this boxing ring?!? since he's stronger than the other fighter is done withen 40 minuets maximum.. and the stronger fighter will win for sure in no time.
This question really depends on the fighters in question. More importantly, their training, skill, stamina, and who the coach is in their corner. A fight like this can be won by the smaller more agile fighter, provided he can stay away from the bigger fighter - IF, the bigger fighter does not have the stamina and cardiovascular endurance to stay with the higher speed of the small fighter. If he does have the stamina, the little guy is in trouble. Or, if the bigger guy does have the speed and/or the skill, it could end up being lights out sooner or later for the little guy. There are advantages and disadvantages to big and small. It totally depends on the fighters in the fight, but the fight isn't over, until it's over.

So,
What is your definition of a win for Hezbollah? And, what is your definition of losing for Hezbollah?
Reply

MRR
08-03-2006, 07:23 AM
Originally Posted by Lamaggad
I'm against zionists who discriminate Arabs and accept for them to be killed in cold blood like whats happening in Gaza and Lebanon.
This is a coincidence.
I'm against racist arabs and/or muslims who discriminate jews and accept for them to be killed in cold blood like whats happening in Israel.
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-03-2006, 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
At this point, I have no point. I was just curious. You don't have to answer it if you don't want to. I'm just trying to better understand your unwavering devotion toward Palestine.
She is Palestinian.
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-03-2006, 11:10 AM
Originally Posted by MRR
This is a coincidence.
I'm against racist arabs and/or muslims who discriminate jews and accept for them to be killed in cold blood like whats happening in Israel.
Its not the Arabs who are occupying illegal lands..
its not the Arabs who are building more and more illegal settlements.
Israel is doing that

Though i dont expect you to be critical of anything Israel does or admit it even acted inappropriately throughout its history and in your view it is infallible ..I being true to my Islamic teachings that urges us to be just and tell the truth if it be against my brothers and sisters..do admit that Palestinian groups have comiitted acts that are UnIslamic and even UnChristian eg the suicide attacks, the the hijackings of airliners done by Christian Palestinians..all they wanted was their land liberated..is that too much to ask? ..i ask you.

waiting for your reply..lets not go around in circles..just answer my question with a simple 'yes' or a 'no' that will be appreciated.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
08-03-2006, 02:38 PM
did anyone watch that documentary on the history of Israel yesterday?

Hitler and zionist israelli's both think they're above the law
They both think there the chosen ones
they both think a certain land is theres
they both think they are superior to all others !!
Reply

nennar
08-03-2006, 02:46 PM
i have seen and heard that before, so so many times..... i use to think that wasent true..... because of ww2, but they are the same and so are their agenda
Reply

lavikor201
08-03-2006, 03:20 PM
Hitler and zionist israelli's both think they're above the law
Untrue. Please give me the resolutions with a link to the UN site proving Israel has not implemented or begun to implement law after a UN resolution which can be considered international law.

Lebonon on the other hand think they are above the law by not implementing resolution 1559 which calls for the immediate disarment of Hezbollah's armed wing. Lebonon is in violation of international law with each bullet Hezbollah fires in there territory.


They both think there the chosen ones
Come back when you understand Jewish law, and not an English interpretation of a Jewish song. PM me and I will give you a little Jewish info, and no the so called 'facts' you think you learn about Jews in your mosque or any Jew hating website.

they both think a certain land is theres
Since the Hamas charter calls for the slaying of all Jews in the Middle East it is kind of hard to make peace with an enemy that wants to kill you. Is it not?

they both think they are superior to all others !!
Actually we don't. The president of our Congress (the knesset) is Muslim and many high figures in Israels goverment are Muslims. Can you find a jew holding a high position in any Arab country? Of course not! Jews vote for Arabs in many elections because we view you as equals. I voted for an Arab to represent me in the congress! How many Arab states will you find that in?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
08-03-2006, 03:50 PM
did i say jewish or zionist? chek again dude :)
Reply

MRR
08-03-2006, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
Though i dont expect you to be critical of anything Israel does or admit it even acted inappropriately throughout its history and in your view it is infallible .
Actually, to tell the truth I am very critical of the way Israel has handled alot of things, but it is difficult to have a rational conversation when people are not willing to admit any wrongdoing on the otherside, it is promising to see you say as much as you have, it's a start.

Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
..I being true to my Islamic teachings that urges us to be just and tell the truth if it be against my brothers and sisters..
I've got news for you sister, you don't need to be a muslim to know that you should be honest and tell the truth. Even athiests know this. People with a good moral upbringing will naturally tell the truth, without any religious reminders needed.

Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
..do admit that Palestinian groups have comiitted acts that are UnIslamic and even UnChristian eg the suicide attacks, the the hijackings of airliners done by Christian Palestinians..all they wanted was their land liberated..is that too much to ask? ..i ask you.
Ah... and you were doing so well. Yet you have to throw in the excuse. I like the "christian" palestinan comment, LOL! Never a muslim, LOL!
Ok, your question. Land liberated..? Depends on which land you are talking about. The area know today by the world as palestine, fair enough, I agree. I would expect that is reasonable. The area know as Israel? Of course it is too much to ask.

(a simple yes or no cannot do for this kind of question, you know that)
Reply

Zionazi_Dissent
08-03-2006, 05:06 PM
Hitler was the Jewish Messiah.
Reply

MRR
08-03-2006, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
Hitler was the Jewish Messiah.
Your a weird dude.
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-03-2006, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by MRR
Actually, to tell the truth I am very critical of the way Israel has handled alot of things, but it is difficult to have a rational conversation when people are not willing to admit any wrongdoing on the otherside, it is promising to see you say as much as you have, it's a start
The majority of the muslims here if not all are against sucide bombings..its nothing new ..maybe you need to keep your eyes peeled lot more often heh!.

I've got news for you sister, you don't need to be a muslim to know that you should be honest and tell the truth. Even athiests know this. People with a good moral upbringing will naturally tell the truth, without any religious reminders needed.
i believe many decent nonmuslims exist whether christians, jews, hindus even athiests and agnostics.

Ah... and you were doing so well. Yet you have to throw in the excuse. I like the "christian" palestinan comment, LOL! Never a muslim, LOL!
Excuse? where have i 'excused' anything? people talk about the muslims who are engaged in terrorist activities yet never talk about the christian palestinians who have also engaged in terrorist activities ..very convienient of them to do so...is that just and fair in your view? guess so.

I never EVER present this as a Palestinian Muslim struggle against the Zionists 15% of Palestinians are Christians yet support for them and their part in this struggle doesnt even exist amongst many christians...there are tons of evangelical chistians in America who donot even know Palestinian Christians exist they think all 'Ayrabs' are muslims...there needs to be a reeducation...its extremely frustrating and tiring when lone individuals like me have to take on this responsibility.

Ok, your question. Land liberated..? Depends on which land you are talking about. The area know today by the world as palestine, fair enough, I agree. I would expect that is reasonable. The area know as Israel? Of course it is too much to ask.

(a simple yes or no cannot do for this kind of question, you know that)
And i think I made my self crystal clear that Palestine includes West Bank and Gaza. Israel exists, God willing Palestine will be liberated...and the Jews Christians and Muslims will live in peace again..oops..said Christians again!
Reply

ManchesterFolk
08-03-2006, 05:24 PM
Are any of you familiar of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem? He was around during 1948, and he tried to hide his past...





Upon al-Husayni's arrival in Europe, he met the German Foreign Minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop on November 20, 1941 and was officially received by Adolf Hitler on November 28, 1941 in Berlin. He asked Hitler for a public declaration that "recognized and sympathized with the Arab struggles for independence and liberation, and that it would support the elimination of a national Jewish homeland". Earlier, al-Hussayni submitted to the German government a draft of such a declaration, containing a clause:

Germany and Italy recognize the right of the Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements, which exist in Palestine and in the other Arab countries, as required by the national and ethnic (völkisch) interests of the Arabs, and as the Jewish question was solved in Germany and Italy.

Hitler refused to make such a public announcement, but "made the following declaration, requesting the Mufti to lock it deep in his heart:

He (the Führer) would carry on the fight until the last traces of the Jewish-Communist European hegemony had been obliterated.
In the course of this fight, the German army would - at a time that could not yet be specified, but in any case in the clearly foreseeable future - gain the southern exit of Caucasus.
As soon as this breakthrough was made, the Führer would offer the Arab world his personal assurance that the hour of liberation had struck. Thereafter, Germany's only remaining objective in the region would be limited to the Vernichtung des...Judentums ['destruction of the Jewish element', sometimes taken to be a euphemism for 'annihilation of the Jews'] living under British protection in Arab lands.." [3]
The Mufti established close contacts with Bosnian and Albanian Muslim leaders and spent the remainder of the war conducting the following activities:

  • Radio propaganda on behalf of Nazi Germany
  • Espionage and the fifth column activities in Muslim regions of Europe and the Middle East
  • Assisting with the formation of Muslim Waffen SS units in the Balkans
  • The formation of schools and training centers for Muslim imams and mullahs who would accompany the Muslim SS and Wehrmacht units.



The Mufti's knowledge about the holocaust while living in Nazi Germany has been debated with the Mufti himself denying any such knowledge after the war. Testimony presented at the Nuremberg trials, however, accused the Mufti of not only having knowledge about the holocaust but of also actively encouraging the initiation of extermination programs against European Jews. Adolf Eichmann`s deputy Dieter Wisliceny testified during his war crimes trial in 1946 that ... "The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan... He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chambers of Auschwitz."

When the Red Cross offered to mediate with Adolf Eichmann in a trade prisoner-of-war exchange involving the freeing of German citizens in exchange for 5,000 Jewish children being sent from Poland to the Theresienstadt concentration camp, Husseini directly intervened with Himmler and the exchange was cancelled, although there is no evidence that his intervention prevented their rescue.[

Who are the Nazi's again?


Beginning in 1943, al-Husayni was involved in the organization and recruitment of Bosnian Muslims into several divisions of the Waffen SS and other units. The largest was the 13th "Handschar" division of 21,065 men (sometimes spelled Hanjar: the word Scimitar in Turkish, Arabic Khanjar خنجر).

One of the SS's responsibilities was to run the Nazi death camps.

Sources of all the information.

The Mufti of Jerusalem by Philip Mattar (Columbia University Press revised edition, 1988, ISBN 0231064632)
The Mufti of Jerusalem and Palestine Arab Politics, 1930-1937 (Outstanding These from the London School of Economics and Political Science) by Yehuda Taggar (Garland Pub, 1987, ISBN 0824019334)
Palestinian Leader, Hajj Amin Al-Husoyni, Mufti of Jerusalem (Kingston Press Series. Leaders, Politics, and Social Change in the Islamic World, No 5) by Taysir Jbara (Kingston Press, 1985, ISBN 0940670216)
The Mufti of Jerusalem: Amin el-Husseini, and his diplomatic activity during World War II, October 1941-July 1943 by Daniel Carpi Studies in Zionism, Vol VII (1983), pp101-131.
"Al-Husayni and Iraq's quest for independence, 1939-1941" by P. Mattar in Arab Studies Quarterly 6,4 (1984), 267-281.
"The Formation of Palestinian Identity: The Critical Years, 1917-1923" by R. Khalidi in Rethinking Nationalism in the Arab Middle East edited by James Jankowski and Israel Gershoni (Columbia University Press, 1997, ISBN 0231106955)
Mufti of Jerusalem: The Story of Haj Amin el Husseini by Moshe Pearlman (V Gollancz, 1947)
Days of our Years by Pierre van Paassen (Hillman-Curl, Inc., 1939, LC 39027058) pp. 363-373
Biographical Dictionary of the Extreme Right Since 1890 by Philip Rees (Macmillan Library Reference, 1991, ISBN 0130893013)
The Mufti and the Fuehrer: The rise and fall of Haj Amin el-Husseini by Joseph B Schechtman (T. Yoseloff, 1965)
The Grand Mufti: Haj Amin Al-Hussaini, Founder of the Palestinian National Movement by Zvi Elpeleg, translated by David Harvey and edited by Shmuel Himelstein (Frank Cass Publishers, 1993, ISBN 0714634328)
Lewis, Bernard (1984). The Jews of Islam. Princeton: Princeton University Press. ISBN 0691008078.
The Israel-Arab Reader: A Documentary History of the Middle East Conflict edited by Walter Laqueur and Barry M. Rubin (Penguin Books 6th Rev edition, 2001, ISBN 0140297138)
Extreme Islam: Anti-American Propaganda of Muslim Fundamentalism edited by Adam Parfrey (Last Gasp, 2002, ISBN 0922915784)
Article on Amin al-Husayni, including a picture with Hitler
Levenberg, Haim (1993). Military Preparations of the Arab Community in Palestine: 1945-1948. London: Routledge. ISBN 0714634395
Robinson, Glenn E. (1997). Building a Palestinian State: The Incomplete Revolution. Indiana University Press. ISBN 0253210828
Sayigh, Yezid (2000). Armed Struggle and the Search for State: The Palestinian National Movement, 1949-1993. Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0198296436
Shlaim, Avi (2001). Israel and the Arab Coalition. In Eugene Rogan and Avi Shlaim (eds.). The War for Palestine (pp. 79-103). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521794765
Zertal, Idith (2005). Israel's Holocaust and the Politics of Nationhood. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521850967
"Encyclopedia of the Holocaust" 1990 Macmillan Publishing Company New York, NY 10022
"Himmler's Bosnian Division; The Waffen-SS Handschar Division 1943-1945" by George Lepre. Algen: Shiffer, 1997. ISBN 0764301349
Deutsche - Juden - Völkermord. Der Holocaust als Geschichte und Gegenwart (Germans, Jews, Genocide — The Holocaust as History and Present). Klaus Michael Mallmann and Martin Cüppers. Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft Darmstadt, 2006.
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-03-2006, 05:24 PM
Zionazi needs to be banned.
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-03-2006, 05:26 PM
Manchesterfolk can you give us a link to your article.

lets see where it came from :D
Reply

ManchesterFolk
08-03-2006, 05:29 PM
It has been edited in.
Reply

Geronimo
08-03-2006, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
Manchesterfolk can you give us a link to your article.

lets see where it came from :D
This is stuff I posted a thousand times here already. He used to do daily brodcasts from Berlin calling for the extermination of Jews. Goerbels used him a lot for propoganda.
Reply

MRR
08-03-2006, 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
Zionazi needs to be banned.
We can be in total agreement here.
Reply

scentsofjannah
08-03-2006, 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Geronimo
This is stuff I posted a thousand times here already. He used to do daily brodcasts from Berlin calling for the extermination of Jews. Goerbels used him a lot for propoganda.
i saw your posts about him..but then again can you or ManchestorFolk care to tell me why he worked with native Palestinian jews??

Manchester id still like to have the link.
Reply

Geronimo
08-03-2006, 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
i saw your posts about him..but then again can you or ManchestorFolk care to tell me why he worked with native Palestinian jews??

Manchester id still like to have the link.
No he didn't he lead riots and violence against them:

On 19 April 1936, an Arab rebellion broke out in Palestine. Soon the rebellion had spread across the country, openly and officially led by the Mufti and his Arab Higher Committee, founded a week after the rebellion had started. The Committee, with the Mufti presiding, proclaimed an Arab general strike and called for nonpayment of taxes and shutting down municipal governments. In addition, the Committee demanded an end to Jewish immigration, a ban on land sales to Jews, and national independence. Jewish colonies, kibbutzim and quarters in towns, became the targets for Arab sniping, bombing, and other terrorist activities
Reply

kadafi
08-03-2006, 05:56 PM
How misleading that people have to resort to historical revisionism. No wonder why some Israeli historians are finally seeing this dishonesty.

Zionists cooperated with the Nazis way before Amin al-Husseini and this was during '33 and '38, this is evident in the Haavara agreement. The main reason why al-Husseini decided to cooperate with the Nazis was to severely damage the ties between the Nazi-Zionists connection since their connection provided support for the Jewish immigrations migrating to Palestine. Hence, his intervention caused damage which resulted the Nazis breaking ties with the Zionists in '42. If you're going to accuse and blame al-Husseini for having ties with the Nazis then the Zionists were guiltier by large. al-Husseini's intention was not to openly declare the "extermination of the Jews", rather his main purpose was to cut the sources of the Zionists.
Reply

Geronimo
08-03-2006, 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by kadafi
How misleading that people have to resort to historical revisionism. No wonder why some Israeli historians are finally seeing this dishonesty.

Zionists cooperated with the Nazis way before Amin al-Husseini and this was during '33 and '38, this is evident in the Haavara agreement. The main reason why al-Husseini decided to cooperate with the Nazis was to severely damage the ties between the Nazi-Zionists connection since their connection provided support for the Jewish immigrations migrating to Palestine. Hence, his intervention caused damage which resulted the Nazis breaking ties with the Zionists in '42. If you're going to accuse and blame al-Husseini for having ties with the Nazis then the Zionists were guiltier by large. al-Husseini's intention was not to openly declare the "extermination of the Jews", rather his main purpose was to cut the sources of the Zionists.
The Haavara agreement was a ploy by the Nazis to get all the Jews together so they could slaughter them all in one place. If it was an agreement between the Zionists and the Nazis to take over Palestine why they make them leave all their things including money behind?
Reply

Geronimo
08-03-2006, 06:09 PM
Recent Nazi documents uncovered in the German Minstry of Foreign Affairs and the Military Archive Service in Freiburg [6] by two researchers, Klaus Michael Mallmann from Stuttgart University and Martin Cüppers from the University of Ludwigsburg, indicated that in the event of the British being defeated in Egypt by Field Marshal Erwin Rommel's Afrika Korps the Nazis had planned to deploy a special unit called Einsatzkommando Ägypten to exterminate Palestinian Jews and that they wanted Arab support to prevent the emergence of a Jewish state. In their book the researchers concluded that, "the most important collaborator with the Nazis and an absolute Arab anti-Semite was Haj Amin al-Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem".[[7] According to the German researchers Husayni was a prime example of how Arabs and Nazis became friends out of a hatred of Jews. Al-Husseini had met several times with Adolf Eichmann[8], Adolf Hitler's chief architect of the Holocaust
Hitlers hatred for the Jews went all the way back to WWI. Read Mien Kempf sometime. There was no way Germany and the zionist were on good terms.
Reply

kadafi
08-03-2006, 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by Geronimo
The Haavara agreement was a ploy by the Nazis to get all the Jews together so they could slaughter them all in one place. If it was an agreement between the Zionists and the Nazis to take over Palestine why they make them leave all their things including money behind?
I am sorry, "an attempt to slaughter them all in one place"?

If that was the case, then 50,000 Jews would have not successfully emigrated to Palestine. Further, it is incorrect to assume that they left everything behind. They let them retain some of their property.

Further info and the text of the agreement, see:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/heritage/epi...uments_11.html

Haavara (Transfer) was a company established in 1935 as the the result of an agreement between the Jewish Agency (the official Jewish executive in Palestine) and the Nazi regime. The agreement was designed to facilitate Jewish emigration to Palestine. Though the Nazis had ordered Jewish emigrants to surrender most of their property before leaving Germany, the Ha'avara agreement let them retain some of their assets by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods. Approximately 50,000 Jews emigrated to Palestine under this arrangement.
Reply

ManchesterFolk
08-03-2006, 06:12 PM
The Haarava agreement was a ploy to get all the Jews in the same place so they wouldn't have to spread the army out to kill them all....

Hundreds of Nazi's confirmed this. The fact that you believe in this ploy is pretty sad. But I guess you believe that the Nazi's killed the Jews because they 'were satan' also... and that 'santa comes every year dec 25.'

The Zionists tried to save Jews by getting them to israel instead of the gas chamber by surrendering all of there possessions for there lives.

This is real hard fact history:





Upon al-Husayni's arrival in Europe, he met the German Foreign Minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop on November 20, 1941 and was officially received by Adolf Hitler on November 28, 1941 in Berlin. He asked Hitler for a public declaration that "recognized and sympathized with the Arab struggles for independence and liberation, and that it would support the elimination of a national Jewish homeland". Earlier, al-Hussayni submitted to the German government a draft of such a declaration, containing a clause:

Germany and Italy recognize the right of the Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements, which exist in Palestine and in the other Arab countries, as required by the national and ethnic (völkisch) interests of the Arabs, and as the Jewish question was solved in Germany and Italy.

Hitler refused to make such a public announcement, but "made the following declaration, requesting the Mufti to lock it deep in his heart:

He (the Führer) would carry on the fight until the last traces of the Jewish-Communist European hegemony had been obliterated.
In the course of this fight, the German army would - at a time that could not yet be specified, but in any case in the clearly foreseeable future - gain the southern exit of Caucasus.
As soon as this breakthrough was made, the Führer would offer the Arab world his personal assurance that the hour of liberation had struck. Thereafter, Germany's only remaining objective in the region would be limited to the Vernichtung des...Judentums ['destruction of the Jewish element', sometimes taken to be a euphemism for 'annihilation of the Jews'] living under British protection in Arab lands.." [3]
The Mufti established close contacts with Bosnian and Albanian Muslim leaders and spent the remainder of the war conducting the following activities:

  • Radio propaganda on behalf of Nazi Germany
  • Espionage and the fifth column activities in Muslim regions of Europe and the Middle East
  • Assisting with the formation of Muslim Waffen SS units in the Balkans
  • The formation of schools and training centers for Muslim imams and mullahs who would accompany the Muslim SS and Wehrmacht units.



The Mufti's knowledge about the holocaust while living in Nazi Germany has been debated with the Mufti himself denying any such knowledge after the war. Testimony presented at the Nuremberg trials, however, accused the Mufti of not only having knowledge about the holocaust but of also actively encouraging the initiation of extermination programs against European Jews. Adolf Eichmann`s deputy Dieter Wisliceny testified during his war crimes trial in 1946 that ... "The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan... He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chambers of Auschwitz."

When the Red Cross offered to mediate with Adolf Eichmann in a trade prisoner-of-war exchange involving the freeing of German citizens in exchange for 5,000 Jewish children being sent from Poland to the Theresienstadt concentration camp, Husseini directly intervened with Himmler and the exchange was cancelled, although there is no evidence that his intervention prevented their rescue.[

Who are the Nazi's again?


Beginning in 1943, al-Husayni was involved in the organization and recruitment of Bosnian Muslims into several divisions of the Waffen SS and other units. The largest was the 13th "Handschar" division of 21,065 men (sometimes spelled Hanjar: the word Scimitar in Turkish, Arabic Khanjar خنجر).

One of the SS's responsibilities was to run the Nazi death camps.

Sources of all the information.

The Mufti of Jerusalem by Philip Mattar (Columbia University Press revised edition, 1988, ISBN 0231064632)
The Mufti of Jerusalem and Palestine Arab Politics, 1930-1937 (Outstanding These from the London School of Economics and Political Science) by Yehuda Taggar (Garland Pub, 1987, ISBN 0824019334)
Palestinian Leader, Hajj Amin Al-Husoyni, Mufti of Jerusalem (Kingston Press Series. Leaders, Politics, and Social Change in the Islamic World, No 5) by Taysir Jbara (Kingston Press, 1985, ISBN 0940670216)
The Mufti of Jerusalem: Amin el-Husseini, and his diplomatic activity during World War II, October 1941-July 1943 by Daniel Carpi Studies in Zionism, Vol VII (1983), pp101-131.
"Al-Husayni and Iraq's quest for independence, 1939-1941" by P. Mattar in Arab Studies Quarterly 6,4 (1984), 267-281.
"The Formation of Palestinian Identity: The Critical Years, 1917-1923" by R. Khalidi in Rethinking Nationalism in the Arab Middle East edited by James Jankowski and Israel Gershoni (Columbia University Press, 1997, ISBN 0231106955)
Mufti of Jerusalem: The Story of Haj Amin el Husseini by Moshe Pearlman (V Gollancz, 1947)
Days of our Years by Pierre van Paassen (Hillman-Curl, Inc., 1939, LC 39027058) pp. 363-373
Biographical Dictionary of the Extreme Right Since 1890 by Philip Rees (Macmillan Library Reference, 1991, ISBN 0130893013)
The Mufti and the Fuehrer: The rise and fall of Haj Amin el-Husseini by Joseph B Schechtman (T. Yoseloff, 1965)
The Grand Mufti: Haj Amin Al-Hussaini, Founder of the Palestinian National Movement by Zvi Elpeleg, translated by David Harvey and edited by Shmuel Himelstein (Frank Cass Publishers, 1993, ISBN 0714634328)
Lewis, Bernard (1984). The Jews of Islam. Princeton: Princeton University Press. ISBN 0691008078.
The Israel-Arab Reader: A Documentary History of the Middle East Conflict edited by Walter Laqueur and Barry M. Rubin (Penguin Books 6th Rev edition, 2001, ISBN 0140297138)
Extreme Islam: Anti-American Propaganda of Muslim Fundamentalism edited by Adam Parfrey (Last Gasp, 2002, ISBN 0922915784)
Article on Amin al-Husayni, including a picture with Hitler
Levenberg, Haim (1993). Military Preparations of the Arab Community in Palestine: 1945-1948. London: Routledge. ISBN 0714634395
Robinson, Glenn E. (1997). Building a Palestinian State: The Incomplete Revolution. Indiana University Press. ISBN 0253210828
Sayigh, Yezid (2000). Armed Struggle and the Search for State: The Palestinian National Movement, 1949-1993. Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0198296436
Shlaim, Avi (2001). Israel and the Arab Coalition. In Eugene Rogan and Avi Shlaim (eds.). The War for Palestine (pp. 79-103). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521794765
Zertal, Idith (2005). Israel's Holocaust and the Politics of Nationhood. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521850967
"Encyclopedia of the Holocaust" 1990 Macmillan Publishing Company New York, NY 10022
"Himmler's Bosnian Division; The Waffen-SS Handschar Division 1943-1945" by George Lepre. Algen: Shiffer, 1997. ISBN 0764301349
Deutsche - Juden - Völkermord. Der Holocaust als Geschichte und Gegenwart (Germans, Jews, Genocide — The Holocaust as History and Present). Klaus Michael Mallmann and Martin Cüppers. Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft Darmstadt, 2006.
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kadafi
08-03-2006, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Geronimo
Hitlers hatred for the Jews went all the way back to WWI. Read Mien Kempf sometime. There was no way Germany and the zionist were on good terms.
It is widely known that the Zionists had solid connection with the Axis Evil extending to Japan. Remember that if al-Husseini did not severe these ties, the Zionists would have been responsible for many grave crimes.

In addition, it is wrong to assume that Jews and Nazis were never on good terms since many countless Jewish soldiers served under the Nazi Regime.
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ManchesterFolk
08-03-2006, 06:16 PM
It is widely known that the Zionists had solid connection with the Axis Evil extending to Japan. Remember that if al-Husseini did not severe these ties, the Zionists would have been responsible for many grave crimes.
Zionists only tried to save Jews. They made a deal with Germany to save lives and give up there possessions.

The Germans ended up tricking them and killing the Jews and taking there possesions anyway.

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited Muslims to the SS which ran the Death Camps which are responsible for killing 6 Million Jews.


Beginning in 1943, al-Husayni was involved in the organization and recruitment of Bosnian Muslims into several divisions of the Waffen SS and other units. The largest was the 13th "Handschar" division of 21,065 men (sometimes spelled Hanjar: the word Scimitar in Turkish, Arabic Khanjar خنجر).

The SS was directly responsible in the mass murder of 6 million Jews.
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Keltoi
08-03-2006, 06:17 PM
[I][countless Jewish soldiers served under the Nazi Regime.
/I]

Granted they probably would have been shot if they refused service...
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kadafi
08-03-2006, 06:18 PM
[quote=ManchesterFolk;433221]The Haarava agreement was a ploy to get all the Jews in the same place so they wouldn't have to spread the army out to kill them all.... [/quote


ManchesterFolk, have you ever come across the Argumentum Ad Nauseam fallacy? That means that repeating the same old revionist garbage would not make it true.

I yet have to see independant thinking instead of copy-paste articles from pro-Israeli sources or authors.
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Geronimo
08-03-2006, 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by kadafi
I am sorry, "an attempt to slaughter them all in one place"?

If that was the case, then 50,000 Jews would have not successfully emigrated to Palestine. Further, it is incorrect to assume that they left everything behind. They let them retain some of their property.

Further info and the text of the agreement, see:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/heritage/epi...uments_11.html

Haavara (Transfer) was a company established in 1935 as the the result of an agreement between the Jewish Agency (the official Jewish executive in Palestine) and the Nazi regime. The agreement was designed to facilitate Jewish emigration to Palestine. Though the Nazis had ordered Jewish emigrants to surrender most of their property before leaving Germany, the Ha'avara agreement let them retain some of their assets by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods. Approximately 50,000 Jews emigrated to Palestine under this arrangement.
Do you know what was going on in Germany in 1935? If I thought it was gonna save my people I would have set up the agency also. In the Nurenberg trials it was proven that they had planned on shipping them all to Palestine to execute them there. After Husayni made a big stink about it they abandoned that plan and changed the location to Britian once they had over ran it. After the battle of Britian the Germans realized this wasn't going to happen so they had a meeting in Berlin, in the Wannsee Villa on January 20, 1942 which is where the ovens and the gas chambers come in. See I'm not one of those people you cann just throw stuff out there and see if it sticks. I actually study history as a hobby.
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