PDA

View Full Version : Are cats Haraam?



Maryum786
07-31-2006, 06:14 PM
Salaam I was asked if muslims are allowed 2keep cats but im not so sure so i was wonderin if u could help me.. also are dogs haraam? and if yes why?
Jazak Allah
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Al-Hanbali
07-31-2006, 06:21 PM
:sl:

I was wondering if cats were allowed to be kept as pets, and if they were allowed inside the house. I was told that the cat fur carries diseases and it was gunah to allow cats inside the house

I was wondering if cats were allowed to be kepy at pets. I heard a story when i was little that the prophet (peace be upon him) had a cat, is this true? I was told that the cat fur carries diseases and it was gunah to allow cats inside the house. If you could answer my questions it would be greatly appreciated. Jazakallah

Answer 9254 2003-08-05


Abu Hurayra (Radhiallaahu Anhu) was a Sahaabi of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). The name ‘Abu Hurayra’ means ‘Father of a kitten’. This title was given to him by Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) himself as he was fond of his kitten pet.

It was a common feature to have cats in the house of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and the Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Anhum). It is permissible to have cats as pets and for them to be in the house. It is obvious one has to take care of any pet and also ensure that they do not carry any disease in them.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai



regarding dogs

Can We keep Dogs? For breeding or as pets?

Dear Respected Mufti Saheb, Is it permisible to keep dogs, a) For the purpose of breeding and raising puppies thereafter selling them to make money or as a business. b)For guarding or as a pet

Answer 2259 2001-03-02




Assalaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuhu

All creatures are the creation of Allah Taãla and do deserve the recognition
of being a creation of the Almighty. As much as Muslims detest even the
sight of pigs - it is the creation of Allah Taãla - and because Allah has
placed life into it, we cannot inflict pain nor torture the pig.

Similarly Allah Taãla created the dog from among His creation. This does not
mean that we should love the dog. It is perhaps the indoctrination of the
Western culture that 'The dog is Man's best Friend'. The theory that 'dogs
are very dependent on Human affection' is a myth - again culture and custom
has helped to develop this unnatural behaviour.

Allah Taãla the Creator of this Universe - having created the dog would
surely have known that the dog requires Human affection and love to exist in
this world. Rasulullah (Sallallaaahu Álayhi Wasallam) would have advised us,
Muslims, to keep dogs as pets. On the contrary, we are instructed not to
keep dogs as pets and 'love' them as exemplified by the non-Muslims.
Remember our life is structured and bound by the Shariah i.e. The Noble
Qurãn and the beautiful example of Rasulullah (Sallallaaahu Álayhi
Wasallam). Consider these Ahaadith:

Hadhrat Abu Talha (Radhiyallaahu Ánhu) reports that Rasulullah (Sallallaaahu
Álayhi Wasallam) said, "Angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog
or an animate picture. (Sahih Bukhari Hadith no. 2986)

Hadhrat Ibn Abbas (Radhiyallaahu Ánhuma) reports from Hadhrat Maimoona
(Radhiyallaahu Ánha) that once Rasulullah (Sallallaaahu Álayhi Wasallam)
became sad; and said that Jibra'eel (Álayhis Salaam) promised to meet him at
night but did not turn up. "By Allah what has kept him back," said the
Prophet (Sallallaaahu Álayhi Wasallam). Then he realised a puppy was under
his bed. He ordered that the puppy be removed and the area be sprinkled with
water. In the afternoon when Jibra'eel (Álayhi Salaam) came, Rasulullah
(Sallallaaahu Álayhi Wasallam) enquired as to the delay. Jibra'eel (Álayhi
Salaam) said that we, the group of Angels do not enter a house wherein there
is a dog or pictures. (Sahih Muslim Hadith no.3928)

In the light of these Ahaadith and other narrations it is not permissible to
keep dogs as pets. The household is deprived of the Mercy of Allah Taãla.

However, Jurists have stated that it is permissible to keep a dog, sell dogs
and rear them for security purposes, farming and hunting. (Fataawa
Mahmoodiyyah vol.8 pg.263)

The saliva of a dog is Najis (impure). If it touches the clothes or body,
that portion also becomes impure and must be washed.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.
Reply

Maryum786
07-31-2006, 06:22 PM
JazakAllah Tanks a lot 4ur help and time
Reply

- Qatada -
07-31-2006, 06:23 PM
:salamext:


http://muttaqun.com/cats.html

http://muttaqun.com/dogs.html


main site: http://muttaqun.com/


:wasalamex
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Kittygyal
07-31-2006, 06:23 PM
Originally Posted by Maryum786

Lol hehe ok then i tort as much :P
As-Salamu `alaykum. Is it haram (prohibited) to declaw a young cat to protect the furniture? We adopted a cat a year ago and tried to train it not to scratch. However, it has ruined some of our furniture and we do not want to send it back to the shelter, for the kids enjoy having it around. Jazakum Allah Khayran.
Answer


Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother in Islam, thanks a lot for your question which reflects your care to have a clear view of the teachings of Islam. Allah commands Muslims to refer to people of knowledge to get themselves well-acquainted with the teachings of Islam as well as all aspects of life.

First of all, it should be noted that a Muslim is demanded to be kind and merciful even in dealing with animals. It was authentically reported that a woman was admitted to Hellfire because she deprived a cat from eating and drinking until it starved. On the other hand, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) told us that a man entered Paradise because he brought water to a thirsty dog.

In his response to your question, Dr. Sano Koutoub Moustapha, professor of fiqh and its principles, International Islamic University, Malaysia, states:



Islam calls upon Muslims to fear Allah in everything including the animals. Islam also calls upon Muslims to be gentle and nice to everything and at all times even when they want to slaughter animals.

In this context, declawing a cat is a form of harming, oppressing, and depriving it from its rights of having claws, which it needs not to scratch your furniture but to scratch and defend itself.

Therefore, you should let your cat grow its claws and find other ways of protecting your furniture other than hurting or harming innocent and friendly animals like cats.
You can also read:

Neutering Pets: Permissible?

Keeping Pets

Does Islam Encourage Kindness to Animals?

Animal Rights: An Islamic Perspective

If you are still in need of more information, don't hesitate to contact us. Do keep in touch. May Allah guide us all to the straight path!
Reply

Azhar786
08-01-2006, 11:04 AM
salaam after reading to all the replys been sent no 1 mentions that if the dog is dry and touches you its OK but it the dog is wet and touches u then u need to get changed!!

walikam salaam
Reply

Najiullah
08-05-2006, 12:03 AM
jazakAllah for the info
Reply

searchingsoul
08-05-2006, 05:53 AM
My husband insists on keeping a nasty German Shepard. Now that I know you're not supposed to touch their slobber I have reason enough to get rid of the thing.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 05:57 AM
^^ loolll ;D ;D
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 05:57 AM
Originally Posted by islamgyal
As-Salamu `alaykum. Is it haram (prohibited) to declaw a young cat to protect the furniture? We adopted a cat a year ago and tried to train it not to scratch. However, it has ruined some of our furniture and we do not want to send it back to the shelter, for the kids enjoy having it around. Jazakum Allah Khayran.
Answer


Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother in Islam, thanks a lot for your question which reflects your care to have a clear view of the teachings of Islam. Allah commands Muslims to refer to people of knowledge to get themselves well-acquainted with the teachings of Islam as well as all aspects of life.

First of all, it should be noted that a Muslim is demanded to be kind and merciful even in dealing with animals. It was authentically reported that a woman was admitted to Hellfire because she deprived a cat from eating and drinking until it starved. On the other hand, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) told us that a man entered Paradise because he brought water to a thirsty dog.

In his response to your question, Dr. Sano Koutoub Moustapha, professor of fiqh and its principles, International Islamic University, Malaysia, states:



Islam calls upon Muslims to fear Allah in everything including the animals. Islam also calls upon Muslims to be gentle and nice to everything and at all times even when they want to slaughter animals.

In this context, declawing a cat is a form of harming, oppressing, and depriving it from its rights of having claws, which it needs not to scratch your furniture but to scratch and defend itself.

Therefore, you should let your cat grow its claws and find other ways of protecting your furniture other than hurting or harming innocent and friendly animals like cats.
You can also read:

Neutering Pets: Permissible?

Keeping Pets

Does Islam Encourage Kindness to Animals?

Animal Rights: An Islamic Perspective

If you are still in need of more information, don't hesitate to contact us. Do keep in touch. May Allah guide us all to the straight path!
Just trim the cat's nails once a week to keep them short.
Reply

babybackribs
08-05-2006, 05:58 AM
Chinese county clubs to death 50,000 dogs
Campaign against rabies prompts mass slaughter in southwestern China
Updated: 5:59 p.m. ET Aug 1, 2006
SHANGHAI, China - China slaughtered 50,000 dogs in a government-ordered crackdown after three people died of rabies, sparking unusually pointed criticism in state media Tuesday and an outcry from animal rights activists.

Health experts said the brutal policy pointed to deep weaknesses in the health care infrastructure in China, where only 3 percent of dogs are vaccinated against rabies and more than 2,000 people die of the disease each year.

The five-day slaughter in Mouding county in Yunnan province in southwestern China ended Sunday and spared only military guard dogs and police canine units, state media reported.

Dogs being walked were seized from their owners and beaten to death on the spot, the Shanghai Daily newspaper reported. Led by the county police chief, killing teams entered villages at night creating noise to get dogs barking, then beat the animals to death, the reports said.

Owners were offered 63 cents per animal to kill their own dogs before the teams were sent in, they said.

The killings were widely discussed on the Internet, with both legal scholars and animal rights activists criticizing them as crude and cold-blooded. The World Health Organization said more emphasis needed to be placed on rabies prevention.

Mass killings condemned
The official newspaper Legal Daily blasted the killings as an “extraordinarily crude, cold-blooded and lazy way for the government to deal with epidemic disease.”

“Wiping out the dogs shows these government officials didn’t do their jobs right in protecting people from rabies in the first place,” the newspaper, published by the central government’s Politics and Law Committee, said in an editorial in its online edition.

In an editorial, the official Xinhua News Agency said the killings wouldn’t have been necessary if the local government had been more attentive, but called the slaughter “the only way out of a bad situation.”

“If they’d discovered this earlier, they could have vaccinated the dogs and ... controlled the outbreak,” the editorial said.

Pet activists call for boycott
The killings prompted calls for a boycott of Chinese products from the activist group People For the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

“We are urging everyone to actively boycott — not a word we use lightly — anything from China given the bludgeoning killing of thousands of dogs,” PETA President Ingrid Newkirk said.

She said the group had canceled all orders of merchandise it sells that are made in China. Will Wright, at PETA’s European office in London, said the orders were worth about $300,000.

“We believe other groups will join us in expressing outrage over the blatant cruelty to animals the world is witnessing,” Wright said.

Mouding County officials defended the slaughter in a region where about 360 of the 200,000 residents suffered dog bites this year, with three people reportedly dying of rabies, including a 4-year-old girl.

“With the aim to keep this horrible disease from people, we decided to kill the dogs,” Li Haibo, a spokesman for the county government, was quoted as saying by Xinhua.

Calls to county government offices went unanswered Tuesday. Located in mountains about 1,240 miles southwest of Shanghai, Mouding is famed for its Buddhist shrines.

A dog's life for real
Unlike in the West, where dogs have long been cherished as companions or helpmates, dogs have rarely had an easy time in China. Dog meat is eaten throughout the country, revered as a tonic in winter and a restorer of virility in men.

Following the communist seizure of power in 1949, dog ownership was condemned as a bourgeois affectation and canines were hunted as pests. Attitudes have softened in recent years, although urban Chinese are still subject to strict rules on the size of their pets and must pay steep registration fees.

About 70 percent of rural households now keep dogs, according to the Chinese Center of Disease Control and Prevention, and increased rates of dog ownership have been tied to a surge in the number of rabies cases in recent years. It said there were 2,651 reported deaths from the disease in 2004, the last year for which data was available.

Access to rabies treatment is also highly limited, especially in the countryside, said Dr. Francette Dusan, a World Health Organization expert.

Effective rabies control requires coordinated efforts between human health, animal health and municipal agencies and authorities, Dusan said.

“This has not been pursued adequately to date in China, with most control efforts consisting of purely reactive dog culls,” she said.

© 2006 The Associated Press.






Friggin' barbarians !!!
Reply

babybackribs
08-05-2006, 05:58 AM
Chinese county clubs to death 50,000 dogs
Campaign against rabies prompts mass slaughter in southwestern China
Updated: 5:59 p.m. ET Aug 1, 2006
SHANGHAI, China - China slaughtered 50,000 dogs in a government-ordered crackdown after three people died of rabies, sparking unusually pointed criticism in state media Tuesday and an outcry from animal rights activists.

Health experts said the brutal policy pointed to deep weaknesses in the health care infrastructure in China, where only 3 percent of dogs are vaccinated against rabies and more than 2,000 people die of the disease each year.

The five-day slaughter in Mouding county in Yunnan province in southwestern China ended Sunday and spared only military guard dogs and police canine units, state media reported.

Dogs being walked were seized from their owners and beaten to death on the spot, the Shanghai Daily newspaper reported. Led by the county police chief, killing teams entered villages at night creating noise to get dogs barking, then beat the animals to death, the reports said.

Owners were offered 63 cents per animal to kill their own dogs before the teams were sent in, they said.

The killings were widely discussed on the Internet, with both legal scholars and animal rights activists criticizing them as crude and cold-blooded. The World Health Organization said more emphasis needed to be placed on rabies prevention.

Mass killings condemned
The official newspaper Legal Daily blasted the killings as an “extraordinarily crude, cold-blooded and lazy way for the government to deal with epidemic disease.”

“Wiping out the dogs shows these government officials didn’t do their jobs right in protecting people from rabies in the first place,” the newspaper, published by the central government’s Politics and Law Committee, said in an editorial in its online edition.

In an editorial, the official Xinhua News Agency said the killings wouldn’t have been necessary if the local government had been more attentive, but called the slaughter “the only way out of a bad situation.”

“If they’d discovered this earlier, they could have vaccinated the dogs and ... controlled the outbreak,” the editorial said.

Pet activists call for boycott
The killings prompted calls for a boycott of Chinese products from the activist group People For the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

“We are urging everyone to actively boycott — not a word we use lightly — anything from China given the bludgeoning killing of thousands of dogs,” PETA President Ingrid Newkirk said.

She said the group had canceled all orders of merchandise it sells that are made in China. Will Wright, at PETA’s European office in London, said the orders were worth about $300,000.

“We believe other groups will join us in expressing outrage over the blatant cruelty to animals the world is witnessing,” Wright said.

Mouding County officials defended the slaughter in a region where about 360 of the 200,000 residents suffered dog bites this year, with three people reportedly dying of rabies, including a 4-year-old girl.

“With the aim to keep this horrible disease from people, we decided to kill the dogs,” Li Haibo, a spokesman for the county government, was quoted as saying by Xinhua.

Calls to county government offices went unanswered Tuesday. Located in mountains about 1,240 miles southwest of Shanghai, Mouding is famed for its Buddhist shrines.

A dog's life for real
Unlike in the West, where dogs have long been cherished as companions or helpmates, dogs have rarely had an easy time in China. Dog meat is eaten throughout the country, revered as a tonic in winter and a restorer of virility in men.

Following the communist seizure of power in 1949, dog ownership was condemned as a bourgeois affectation and canines were hunted as pests. Attitudes have softened in recent years, although urban Chinese are still subject to strict rules on the size of their pets and must pay steep registration fees.

About 70 percent of rural households now keep dogs, according to the Chinese Center of Disease Control and Prevention, and increased rates of dog ownership have been tied to a surge in the number of rabies cases in recent years. It said there were 2,651 reported deaths from the disease in 2004, the last year for which data was available.

Access to rabies treatment is also highly limited, especially in the countryside, said Dr. Francette Dusan, a World Health Organization expert.

Effective rabies control requires coordinated efforts between human health, animal health and municipal agencies and authorities, Dusan said.

“This has not been pursued adequately to date in China, with most control efforts consisting of purely reactive dog culls,” she said.

© 2006 The Associated Press.






Friggin' barbarians !!!
Reply

searchingsoul
08-05-2006, 06:03 AM
Well, three people died from rabies. I think it's okay. Humans are more valuable than pets.
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 06:04 AM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Well, three people died from rabies. I think it's okay. Humans are more valuable than pets.
:rant:
Reply

searchingsoul
08-05-2006, 06:07 AM
Originally Posted by mlsh27
:rant:
I'm sorry. I didn't mean horses.
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 06:13 AM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I'm sorry. I didn't mean horses.
I think all animals are equitable...including humans, since we are indeed animals.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 06:14 AM
^^ :offended:

u sure u don't belong in a zoo?
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 06:17 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
^^ :offended:

u sure u don't belong in a zoo?
So I am unsure if you are trying to be jerky or what....but I would most likely be happier around "animals" than humans.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 06:22 AM
well Allah makes a contrast between humans who disbelieve in him and animals in a derogatory sense... so if that's where you wanna position yourself.. enjoy :X
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 06:27 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
well Allah makes a contrast between humans who disbelieve in him and animals in a derogatory sense... so if that's where you wanna position yourself.. enjoy :X
? What do you mean by that? So because I believe all animals are equitable, I don't believe in Allah? Either you did a poor job of explanation or have some weird sense of logic.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 06:29 AM
^^ dude relax man..

all i said is that allah contrats between some humans and animals in a derogatory sense... because the difference is that animals don't have intellect as humans do.

you said you're an animal.. and i suggested that's not the best thing to think of yourself as being...

where did you get the conclusion that i rendered you a disbeliever in Allah from...?
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 06:31 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
^^ dude relax man..

all i said is that allah contrats between some humans and animals in a derogatory sense... because the difference is that animals don't have intellect as humans do.

you said you're an animal.. and i suggested that's not the best thing to think of yourself as being...

where did you get the conclusion that i rendered you a disbeliever in Allah from...?
A. I am a WOman.
B. We are indeed animals, like it or not.
C. No, animals do not have our level of intelligence, but are extremely intelligent-more so than people would like to believe.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 06:38 AM
D. You're a woman.. big deal..
E. You can label yourself an animal, don't impose the humilation on the rest of us please.
F. You contradicted yourself, if you are an animal, you should have an animal's level of intelligence :giggling:
Reply

Woodrow
08-05-2006, 06:38 AM
I think a few things need to be kept in mind.

All that is created, was created by Allah(swt).

All of Creation has a purpose.

We are limited in knowing all things.

We may never know the purpose of some things.

All of Creation must be treated with respect and dignity.

With that said, I personaly feel that the mistreatment or misuse of anything is haraam. We have been given specific guidelines as to how certain creatures are to be treated. If we stick to the guidelines, we will have no fear of doing that which is haraam. We can love and admire all animals for what they are, Creations of Allah(swt). When we follow the guidelines, we will see what is the proper use of the gifts from Allah(swt)
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 06:41 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
D. You're a woman.. big deal..
E. You can label yourself an animal, don't impose the humilation on the rest of us please.
F. You contradicted yourself, if you are an animal, you should have an animal's level of intelligence :giggling:
We ARE primates...and in Kingdom Animalia...basic biology. You seem to be the one with the "animal" intelligence level.:grumbling :
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 06:43 AM
You can go argue with the creator of Animal's that you're no different to a donkey...

as far as our creator is concerned, we are superior to Animal's so long as we behave like human's... if biology is more important to you than the Quran... all the worst to you...

lol about me being the one with animal's intelligence level.. you might like to prove how i am so.
Reply

searchingsoul
08-05-2006, 06:43 AM
Getting back on topic, "Are Cats Haraam?"

It is haraam to eat them.

It is not haraam to have them as a pet.
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 06:47 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
You can go argue with the creator of Animal's that you're no different to a donkey...

as far as our creator is concerned, we are superior to Animal's so long as we behave like human's... if biology is more important to you than the Quran... all the worst to you...

lol about me being the one with animal's intelligence level.. you might like to prove how i am so.
I never said all animals are equal, but equitable. Here is a link to show that we ARE animals. http://chimpanzoo.org/taxonomy.html We are not superior, but different. We have higher levels of consciousness and intelligence and are higher on the food change, but that does not make us so much above so called animals.
Reply

Woodrow
08-05-2006, 06:49 AM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Getting back on topic, "Are Cats Haraam?"

It is haraam to eat them.

It is not haraam to have them as a pet.
One of the best replies to the topic.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 06:49 AM
dude if you want to be equated to an animal... good luck enjoy..

i'm just saying don't force others around you to degrade themselves to animals... by way of labelling or otherwise...

it's pretty obvious that Islam doesn't believe in human Evolution, human was created the way he was perfectly, a miracle... if you want ot argue taht Adam started off as a n ape... well that's your problem...

Allah says we are superior.. if you rather classify yoruself as a different breed of ape instead of a superior creature.. enjoy..
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 06:53 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
dude if you want to be equated to an animal... good luck enjoy..

i'm just saying don't force others around you to degrade themselves to animals... by way of labelling or otherwise...

it's pretty obvious that Islam doesn't believe in human Evolution, human was created the way he was perfectly, a miracle... if you want ot argue taht Adam started off as a n ape... well that's your problem...

Allah says we are superior.. if you rather classify yoruself as a different breed of ape instead of a superior creature.. enjoy..
Degrade themselves to animals?...You are pathetic. It is people like you who make me hate humans.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 06:55 AM
^^lool.. what, so you're a zebra who fled a zoo and jumped onto this forum and now u hate humans? :p

instead of giving me a flurry of emotions.. do a line by line refutation :D ... show us a bit of the animal intellgience that you possess...

ok back to topic
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 07:01 AM
Where is your proof that we are not animals? Where does it say we are superior. I at least brought proof of how we are indeed animals. Also, I never mentioned anything about evolution. I am a human, thus I am an animal, so please stop with the "So you are a zebra" and what not.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 07:05 AM
ok.. now you're making sense.

Here's the proof..

25:44 "Rather they are like animals, Nay! They are Worse"

So if humans where like animals by default, why would Allah make a deregotary contrast like the verse above?

and if Allah's turning the people of the book into apes and pigs is not a degredation, then what is it? an honour?

Also not all animals are equitable as far as Islam is concerned, frogs for example are regarded more than a lizard for example.. Infact we're commanded to kill lizards whenever we come across one... But we are commanded to protect and lookafter all other species of animals...

salamz
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 07:11 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
ok.. now you're making sense.

Here's the proof..

25:44 "Rather they are like animals, Nay! They are Worse"

So if humans where like animals by default, why would Allah make a deregotary contrast like the verse above?

and if Allah's turning the people of the book into apes and pigs is not a degredation, then what is it? an honour?

Also not all animals are equitable as far as Islam is concerned, frogs for example are regarded more than a lizard for example.. Infact we're commanded to kill lizards whenever we come across one... But we are commanded to protect and lookafter all other species of animals...

salamz
However, this is not proof that we are NOT animals biologically. Also where is your proof about lizards? If a hadeeth, what level of reliability.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 07:16 AM
dude.. animals and humans are both made out of electrons, protons and neutrons.. that doesn't necessitate us being on the same level in any shape or form.

Humans and animals are two different classes... forget the biology for now, we're talking in terms of psychology and intellect here.

by the way, it's salamander.. not lizard.. sorry i never knew there was a difference till i just looked it up now:


...You first need to appreciate the difference between lizards and salamanders. The first is typically referred to as, "Al-Zabba" in Arabic while the latter is what is mostly referred to as "Al-Wazaq" in Arabic. Lizards are reptiles, while salamanders are amphibians.

It is the killing of salamanders (and not lizard) that is a matter of debate. It is true that there are Ahadith encouraging killing salamanders. Some of these are as follows:
Narrated 'Aisha: Allah's Apostle called the salamander a bad animal, but I did not hear him ordering it to be killed." (Bukhari - Volume 3, Book 29, Number 57)
Narrated Aisha: The Prophet called the Salamander, a mischief-doer. I have not heard him ordering that it should be killed. Sad bin Waqqas says that the Prophet ordered that it should be killed. (Bukhari - Volume 4, Book 54, Number 525)
Narrated Um Sharik: Allah's Apostle ordered that the salamander should be killed and said, "It (i.e. the salamander) blew (the fire) on Ibrahim." (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 579)
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who killed a Salamander with the first stroke for him is such and such a reward, and he who killed it with a second stroke for him is such and such reward less than the first one, and he who killed it with the third stroke for him is such and such a reward less than the second one. (Muslim Book 026, Number 5564)
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 07:23 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
dude.. animals and humans are both made out of electrons, protons and neutrons.. that doesn't necessitate us being on the same level in any shape or form.

Humans and animals are two different classes... forget the biology for now, we're talking in terms of psychology and intellect here.

by the way, it's salamander.. not lizard.. sorry i never knew there was a difference till i just looked it up now:
All animals are different in terms of psychology and intelligence. However, humans are extremely similar to higher apes in the two areas than many people would like to believe. Gorillas have proven that they have the capacity ot lie. Elephants have an amazing memory and are the only other animal besides humans to be diagnosed with PTSD. Dogs commonly have separation anxiety. Elephants and higher apes show the same reaction to lack of parenting that humans do.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 07:25 AM
and what does that have to do with us being animals :?
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 07:28 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
and what does that have to do with us being animals :?
You said the we are different in terms of psychology and intelligence. I was showing how we are more similar than many believe. Our level of awareness and consciousness is different in the fact that we can not prove at the moment if animals do/do not believe in a higher power or understand death. Although elephants return to the graveyards of relatives and feel the remnants with their trunks, as if remembering the dead.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 07:32 AM
yeh.. there's similarities that's fair enough.. even as far as DNA is concerned... i can even prove to you that robots have alot of similarities with humans...

similarity doesn't render us equal.. that's my point... just because robots have neuron networks and Artificial intelligence and have mechanical and material dynamics similar to humans doesn't necessitate us being a family..

in short.. be proud to be a human and accept the superiority that Allah has given us.. no doubt, people who misuse the trust that Allah gave them are wosre than animals.:statisfie
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 07:37 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
yeh.. there's similarities that's fair enough.. even as far as DNA is concerned... i can even prove to you that robots have alot of similarities with humans...

similarity doesn't render us equal.. that's my point... just because robots have neuron networks and Artificial intelligence and have mechanical and material dynamics similar to humans doesn't necessitate us being a family..

in short.. be proud to be a human and accept the superiority that Allah has given us.. no doubt, people who misuse the trust that Allah gave them are wosre than animals.
I just want to make it clear that I am not saying as animals we are all equal, but equitable. Here are the definitions of each word:

eq·ui·ta·ble P Pronunciation Key (kw-t-bl)
adj.
Marked by or having equity; just and impartial. See Synonyms at fair.

e·qual P Pronunciation Key (kwl)
adj.
Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another.
Mathematics. Being the same or identical to in value.
Having the same privileges, status, or rights: equal before the law.
Being the same for all members of a group: gave every player an equal chance to win.
Having the requisite qualities, such as strength or ability, for a task or situation: “Elizabeth found herself quite equal to the scene” (Jane Austen).
Adequate in extent, amount, or degree.

The are similar, but not the same.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 07:43 AM
Marked by or having equity; just and impartial. See Synonyms at fair.
So do you provide a bed for your puppy? and a toilet as well as a dinner table with a spoon and fork? and did you send it to primary school, and did you help it find an appropriate spouse when it got old enough? :?

I mean afterall.. that's what equitable is all about...

lol ok the obvious answer is no.. why? becasue we're VERY different. We have some similarities, but by no means do they make us equitable... not even in the sight of Allah.. otherwise they woudln't be turned to dust on day of judgement..

oh and mind you.. i'm not an anti animal person btw... i'm just anti people who love to call themselves animals or behave like ones..
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 07:45 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
So do you provide a bed for your puppy? and a toilet as well as a dinner table with a spoon and fork? and did you send it to primary school, and did you help it find an appropriate spouse when it got old enough? :?

I mean afterall.. that's what equitable is all about...
How is it fair? Dogs are not humans, just as fish are not geese. One should treat each animal by what it is. A dog as a dog, a human as a human, a horse as a horse-all are animals but not the same as the other.
Reply

Woodrow
08-05-2006, 07:47 AM
Animal is an English word. In different contexts it has different meanings. From Mr. Webster an Animal is:

Animal (Page: 58)
An"i*mal (#), n. [L., fr. anima breath, soul: cf. F. animal. See Animate.]

1. An organized living being endowed with sensation and the power of voluntary motion, and also characterized by taking its food into an internal cavity or stomach for digestion; by giving carbonic acid to the air and taking oxygen in the process of respiration; and by increasing in motive power or active aggressive force with progress to maturity.

2. One of the lower animals; a brute or beast, as distinguished from man; as, men and animals.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Animal (Page: 58)
An"i*mal, a. [Cf. F. animal.]

1. Of or relating to animals; as, animal functions.

2. Pertaining to the merely sentient part of a creature, as distinguished from the intellectual, rational, or spiritual part; as, the animal passions or appetites.

3. Consisting of the flesh of animals; as, animal food. Animal magnetism. See Magnetism and Mesmerism. -- Animal electricity, the electricity developed in some animals, as the electric eel, torpedo, etc. -- Animal flower (Zoöl.), a name given to certain marine animals resembling a flower, as any species of actinia or sea anemone, and other Anthozoa, hydroids, starfishes, etc. -- Animal heat (Physiol.), the heat generated in the body of a living animal, by means of which the animal is kept at nearly a uniform temperature. -- Animal spirits. See under Spirit. -- Animal kingdom, the whole class of beings endowed with animal life. It embraces several subkingdoms, and under these there are Classes, Orders, Families, Genera, Species, and sometimes intermediate groupings, all in regular subordination, but variously arranged by different writers. The following are the grand divisions, or subkingdoms, and the principal classes under them, generally recognized at the present time: - Vertebrata, including Mammalia or Mammals, Aves or Birds, Reptilia, Amphibia, Pisces or Fishes, Marsipobranchiata (Craniota); and Leptocardia (Acrania). Tunicata, including the Thaliacea, and Ascidioidea or Ascidians. Articulata or Annulosa, including Insecta, Myriapoda, Malacapoda, Arachnida, Pycnogonida, Merostomata, Crustacea (Arthropoda); and Annelida, Gehyrea (Anarthropoda). Helminthes or Vermes, including Rotifera, Chætognatha, Nematoidea, Acanthocephala, Nemertina, Turbellaria, Trematoda, Cestoidea, Mesozea. Molluscoidea, including Brachiopoda and Bryozoa. Mollusca, including Cephalopoda, Gastropoda, Pteropoda, Scaphopoda, Lamellibranchiata or Acephala. Echinodermata, including Holothurioidea, Echinoidea, Asterioidea, Ophiuroidea, and Crinoidea. Cœlenterata, including Anthozoa or Polyps, Ctenophora, and Hydrozoa or Acalephs. Spongiozoa or Porifera, including the sponges. Protozoa, including Infusoria and Rhizopoda. For definitions, see these names in the Vocabulary.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 07:48 AM
ok how about this... bring me a shred of evidence to suggest that Humans and animals are equitable... and that Humans are a form of animal.
Reply

Malaikah
08-05-2006, 07:54 AM
:sl:

how about you two DEFINE what you mean by animal???

from what i seem to have understood, according to lolwatever: animal= all living creatures other than humans.

mlsh27: animal=all living creatures including humans
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 07:56 AM
I brought you the taxonomy. Also humans are 98.4% genetically similar to chimps...more than chimps are to gorillas at 96%. I am not saying anything about evolution, so please do not play that card. Humans and "animals" are equitable in the same way that men and women are. All animals are not the exact same, just as women and men are not the exact same in physiology, behaviors, and psychology. However, all are treated justly. Men are not "above" women. Humans are not "above" animals. This is not to say that some do not have enhanced areas over another. However, because of the differences, one is not treated as less than another: i.e. women are less than men because they aren't as strong, & dogs are less than humans because they don't see as many colors.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 07:56 AM
^^ i know what she's referring to... but i'm arguign that we should stick to Islamic definitions... she shouldn't be confusing herself like that till she reaches wehre she's at...
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 07:57 AM
Originally Posted by mlsh27
I brought you the taxonomy. Also humans are 98.4% genetically similar to chimps...more than chimps are to gorillas at 96%. I am not saying anything about evolution, so please do not play that card. Humans and "animals" are equitable in the same way that men and women are. All animals are not the exact same, just as women and men are not the exact same in physiology, behaviors, and psychology. However, all are treated justly. Men are not "above" women. Humans are not "above" animals. This is not to say that some do not have enhanced areas over another. However, because of the differences, one is not treated as less than another: i.e. women are less than men because they aren't as strong, & dogs are less than humans because they don't see as many colors.
And Allah defines animals the way cheese did... so based on that we're not animals. Full stop.

now.. back to topic, cats, yes they're cute mashalah and halal to keep as pets... not edible tho :p
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 08:00 AM
Here is why we ARE classified as animals.
HOW ARE HUMANS LABELED?
Cats, dogs, and now you. Below is the exact name a scientist would use to describe you. If an alien came from outer space, and wanted to understand about every living thing on Earth, they would use these labels. You could put a big sign on your dog with his description and you could wear one which described you. Your sign would read...

ANIMALIA - CHORDATA - MAMMALIA - PRIMATA - HOMINIDAE - HOMO - SAPIENS


WHY DO SCIENTISTS THINK YOU ARE HUMAN?


We don't care what people say about you, we know that you are human. But then again, we're scientists. So let's start with the biggest grouping. You live in the KINGDOM - ANIMALIA. If you remember, there are five Kingdoms. You are made up of many, many cells (multicellular) and all those cells have a nucleus with a membrane. You don't have any chlorophyll. If you did, you would be a plant.

Next comes the Phylum. You are PHYLUM - CHORDATA. So when you were a fetus (in the womb before you were born) you had something called a NOTOCHORD. That's a rod made out of cartilage. As you developed, that cartilage turned into a spinal cord made out of bones. That's what scientists call VERTEBRAE. Those magic vertebrae put you in the SUBPHYLUM - VERTEBRATA.

Feel your hand. Hopefully its warm, not cold like a snake. Having warm blood makes you special. Look in the mirror. Do you have any feathers? Do you have teeth? If you had feathers and no teeth scientists would toss you in with the birds. One last thing, if you are an adult woman, you should have the ability to nurse your babies. That's called breast feeding (or suckling). Most mammals do that for their babies. Now you're falling into the CLASS - MAMMALIA.

Okay, you're a mammal. That's still a long way from being human. As far as we know you're some blind mole that lives out in the desert. Do you lay eggs? No. Do you have a pouch? No. You, assuming you are an adult female, have babies that start their life in something called a PLACENTA. That's the lining for the womb where the baby (or fetus) grows until it is born. That magic placenta puts you in the SUBCLASS - EUTHERIA.

Now for the easy stuff. You should have five fingers and five toes on each hand and foot. One of those fingers should be a thumb. You have flat fingernails on those fingers and toes. You have a collarbone (that's the one between your neck and your shoulders). You are officially in the ORDER - PRIMATA (that's where the primates and monkeys are). Your eyes are in the front of your head. Not on the sides like a dolphin or some other monkeys. SUBORDER - ARTHROPOIDEA.

Almost there. Tail? Nope. Do you walk on two legs? Yup. Your spinal cord and vertebrae are also "S" shaped (that's important). That puts you in the FAMILY - HOMINIDAE.

You are in the GENUS - HOMO. There was another genus which is now extinct called Australopithecus. Very close to you, but not quite human.

And finally, you are SPECIES - SAPIENS. There used to be a species "Homo erectus". They are now extinct. That's it. All those names tell scientists huge amounts about you, your PHYSIOLOGY, your GENETICS, and they way you develop into being an adult.
Reply

Malaikah
08-05-2006, 08:03 AM
:sl:

thats nothing more than a scientific definition!!!! AND is based on evolution...:rollseyes

it doesnt prove anything
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 08:04 AM
sis mlsh.. please.. i'm not trying to get on your nerves or anything..reeeeealllly really sorry if i offended you.. i guess my jokes can seem jerky alot of times..

all i'm saying is.. yeh we do have similarities.. but Islamically we're a distinct species from the other living things...

I presented to you the evidence about animals not beign equitable, take a look at it and think about it more inshalah.

tc salamz
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 08:07 AM
Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

thats nothing more than a scientific definition!!!! AND is based on evolution...:rollseyes

it doesnt prove anything
How does it not prove anything? It goes step by step answering why we are classified as such. Also where does it say anything about evolution? Some one has yet to prove how we are not biologically animals. The verse that lolwatever posted did not address the "humans are not animals" debate. I don't think you all are understanding that I am not saying we, as humans, are equal to other species. I am saying that we are animals, but have our own sub-species because we are different. If we are in no way animals, the classification system would not apply to humans.
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 08:09 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
sis mlsh.. please.. i'm not trying to get on your nerves or anything..reeeeealllly really sorry if i offended you.. i guess my jokes can seem jerky alot of times..

all i'm saying is.. yeh we do have similarities.. but Islamically we're a distinct species from the other living things...

I presented to you the evidence about animals not beign equitable, take a look at it and think about it more inshalah.

tc salamz
I am sorry if I am getting on your nerves or what not. I agree we definitely are a distinct species, that is why no other animal can be classified as a Homo sapien.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 08:12 AM
^^ lol your fine..

I read that article.. and it seems to classify humans based on the similarities they have.. but it doesn't imply there that we're equitable...

as for me not convincing that we are not animals... i think the verse i quoted proves it.. it's a rhetorical question and no one would use that as evidenc eot prove that we are animals....

tc all the best
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 08:13 AM
Anyways, I am glad cats are not haram because I have 2, my parents 3, my sister 1, and my brother 1. They are extremely distinct and interesting creatures. One of mine acts like a dog. Since we are not allowed to keep dogs as pets, she makes up for it.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 08:14 AM
^^ lol! esp the part about making up for a dog loll hehe :p ;D ;D
Reply

Malaikah
08-05-2006, 08:15 AM
Homo erectus are part of the evolutionary 'family' or whatever you want to call it... the classification is linked to evolution.

just becuase we are made from cells and whatever doesnt mean we are animals. I know i am wasting my time here, becuase this argument is nothing but 'how do we define animals'.

how about this- we are like animals in a biological sense, we are made from cells etc, BUT humans have free will and animals dont, humans will be judged in the hereafter and animals wont, humans will get paradise or hell, and animals will simply no longer exist...

huge difference
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 08:18 AM
My cats.
Reply

Malaikah
08-05-2006, 08:32 AM
:sl:

lol, i wish i could sleep on the heater like that!
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 08:44 AM
More of the cat family

PS- the grey tabby sleeping with my siamese nurses on him...even though they are both boys, and the tabby is now an adult.
Reply

Samee
08-05-2006, 07:21 PM
:sl:

This is insane- why are some of us labeling humans as animals?

The term "animal" is known universally as a derogatory comment, to classify someone as disgusting or barbaric.

Please, don't refer to yourself or us as animals. Use another term. Allah has classified you as a human being, not an animal. We know you love animals, but don't let that comapre yourself to one.
Reply

Looking4Peace
08-05-2006, 07:26 PM
I have 2 cats and 2 big dogs but outside, they stink lol.
Reply

Hijrah
08-05-2006, 07:28 PM
So therefore, it's sunnah to have cats right?
Reply

Looking4Peace
08-05-2006, 07:31 PM
I dont know but from my study of germs and microbiology cats are filthier believe it or not, their poop can carry taxoplamosis or something like that which can cause birth defects if a pregnant woman is handling it and can also kill those with immunity problems, dog poo doesnt pose this risk, but i dont think cats were mentioned in the hadith, so i dont really know, just from my knowledge their wastes stink way more and have more germs. They just look and smell pretier themselves than dogs do.


In all honesty they gross me out more then my dogs but unfortunately they cant live outside the way my dogs can. +o(
Reply

mlsh27
08-05-2006, 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by Samee
:sl:

This is insane- why are some of us labeling humans as animals?

The term "animal" is known universally as a derogatory comment, to classify someone as disgusting or barbaric.

Please, don't refer to yourself or us as animals. Use another term. Allah has classified you as a human being, not an animal. We know you love animals, but don't let that comapre yourself to one.
To reiterate what has already been said: we are biologically animals classified as HomoSapiens. We are the only ones under the sub species because we are different from the rest of the animal kingdom.
Reply

lolwatever
08-05-2006, 08:45 PM
salamz bro samee.. inshalha just read over the discussion we had... yes you're right... just because we have biological similarities doesn't imply we are on the same level or equitable with them.. i mentioned the proof for that in the past few pages..

take care all the best
salams
Reply

Malaikah
08-06-2006, 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
I dont know but from my study of germs and microbiology cats are filthier believe it or not, their poop can carry taxoplamosis or something like that which can cause birth defects if a pregnant woman is handling it and can also kill those with immunity problems, dog poo doesnt pose this risk, but i dont think cats were mentioned in the hadith, so i dont really know, just from my knowledge their wastes stink way more and have more germs. They just look and smell pretier themselves than dogs do.


In all honesty they gross me out more then my dogs but unfortunately they cant live outside the way my dogs can. +o(
:sl:

eww!! if you think thats bad, dogs actually eat their own and other animals poo thats just disgusting yuk, and then their owners let them lick their faces and eat the same food arghh +o(

at least cats dont do that but they do lick themselves to get clean in ALL places so thats still yuk lol
Reply

mlsh27
08-06-2006, 12:57 AM
Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

eww!! if you think thats bad, dogs actually eat their own and other animals poo thats just disgusting yuk, and then their owners let them lick their faces and eat the same food arghh +o(

at least cats dont do that but they do lick themselves to get clean in ALL places so thats still yuk lol
Hate to break it to you, but every animal will eat feces if given the chance.
Reply

Malaikah
08-06-2006, 01:00 AM
:sl:

i dont think so, i know lot sof animals do it, like horses and possums but they do it in different ways and for different reasons.

possums have 2 types and they eat the first type becuase it doesnt get digested properly and they need to get the nutrients back from it... horses kinda the same

dogs, they dont care+o(
Reply

mlsh27
08-06-2006, 01:05 AM
Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

i dont think so, i know lot sof animals do it, like horses and possums but they do it in different ways and for different reasons.

possums have 2 types and they eat the first type becuase it doesnt get digested properly and they need to get the nutrients back from it... horses kinda the same

dogs, they dont care+o(
Trust me, they do. Snakes, fish, apes, birds-they all do it.
Reply

lolwatever
08-06-2006, 01:06 AM
Human's too? ;D

lol joookinggg not trying to restart the debate...

salamz
Reply

mlsh27
08-06-2006, 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
Human's too? ;D

lol joookinggg not trying to restart the debate...

salamz
One of my cousins ate dog feces when she was young, so yes! LOL..not trying to start it again either lol.
Reply

lolwatever
08-06-2006, 01:09 AM
loool yuckk hahahhaa that's sppoooky lol
Reply

Malaikah
08-06-2006, 03:58 AM
:sl:

er, what do you think honey is then? :p
Reply

mlsh27
08-06-2006, 04:08 AM
Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

er, what do you think honey is then? :p
Honey is regurgitated food, not fully digested as feces.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-12-2016, 08:10 AM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-16-2011, 03:00 PM
  3. Replies: 39
    Last Post: 05-26-2010, 03:57 PM
  4. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-07-2007, 06:56 PM
  5. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-28-2006, 11:39 AM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!