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Khaldun
01-02-2005, 03:21 AM
Living in the west as muslims, we are subjected to various kinds of Fitnas (trials) which our muslim brethren in muslim countries are saved from. One of these being Free Mixing the intermingling of the sexes. No doubt that this brings with it numourus problems such as Zinaa (fornication) and losinging of morals. As youth, attending public schools, we are at a greater risk and thus most guard ourselves all the time, remembering Allah much and His rights upon us.

Sadly many brothers and sisters are taking these issues very lightly and forgetting that it Indeed is a grave sin. Chatting freely with fellow brothers and sisters, and when reminded they say "He/She is like my own brother/sister, I would never think of him/her in that way!" Little do they know that they are deluding themselfs and letting Shaytaan and their own nafs getting the upper hand over them.

These are some of my own ideas and thoughts on the issue, what are yours? feel free to state your opinions :)
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aamirsaab
01-09-2005, 07:31 PM
i understand completely. as u have pointed out that we live in the western soicety - it is hard for muslims to stay away from fitnas.

but what i have learned is that we should not always take the quran as literally as it states for example: ''junnah is at your mothers feet'' - this does not mean literaly that junnah is at ur moms feet now does it. but we take it for its deeper meaning , which i think means that we need 2 have a lot of respect and love for our mother.

with regards to free mixing - it is clear that nowadays this occurs frequently - perhaps this is because of human nature.
for me i try not to mix with evry 1 i meet - initially - i try to find out as much as i can about them (as in understand what they are talking bout) and then if it is absolutely neccesary for me to talk to them then i will. also i am aware of they shaytan that surrounds us and i try to avoid it but sometimes it can get to u and sometimes u do submit - maybe only briefly but it happens.

i am not sayin that i encourage this behaviour - i am simply stating that it happens. that is all. :)
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aamirsaab
01-12-2005, 04:39 PM
[QUOTE= When in college/uni class/lucture rooms sit next to someone of the same gender as you, lower your gaze etc.

So it can be avoided its just us with the problem![/QUOTE]lol in my communication class im the only boy :D
surrounded by 4girls - two on one side of the room and tow on opposite.
lol i dont mind tho - we all skive half the lesson cus the teacher leaves the room every 30 mins hehe
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WomanOfJihad
01-12-2005, 04:57 PM
well. so far .the points been made are interesting .. However like Sister Muslimah and Brother Khaldun said.. Free mixing should b avoided since it leads to lots of Fitnah .. BUT also like Brother Aamir said ..it all depends on the Niyyah (intention) .i agree with that too.. but i dnt think we have the need of interacting with the opposite Gender all the timee ...the chances wud b like ONCE in 6 months .. this i m talkin abt the College /Uni life .. coz obviously brothers can help brothers and sisters can help sisters ..

but when u r out ... in shops n work.. then yeah .. in those places theres no way out without interacting with the opposite gender .. other than that ... Generally.. being friends with the opposite Gender is just nt Allowed according to the Shariah.. coz they r ur GHAIR Mehrams .. n another thing is NAFSS thats the BIGGEST cause of free mixing ... our NAFS tels us .. "just a little chat n it wnt do u no harm " and there u r ..we listen to the nafs n we talk ... n thats wat happens everywhere .. we cant help it but to Follow our Nafs ..
May Allah swt give us the Hidayah to Fight our Nafs, for it leads us astray (Ameen)
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aamirsaab
01-12-2005, 06:12 PM
there is a psychological term for that

i believe it is the superego and the ID (pronounced id as apposed to eye dee) part of our brain

aka conscience (thanks brother osman 4 correcting the spelling :))
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Uthman
01-12-2005, 06:13 PM
It's spelt conscience actually! :p ! Good point.
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WomanOfJihad
01-12-2005, 09:42 PM
* Should have known the Majority ae doin Psycho here*
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root
01-12-2005, 11:16 PM
:zip:
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Brother_Mujahid
01-12-2005, 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by root
:zip:
whatever happened to freespeach (sp)?
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A. Mukhtar
01-14-2005, 11:30 AM
I would first of all like to remind Brother Aamirsaab that the quote "Junnah is under your mother's feet" or anything similar does not occur in the Qur'an. You are confusing for a Hadith...

Secondly, we understand that we shouldn't always take the qur'an literally... but that is under special circumstances where the 'Tafsir' or the translation agreed upon by many scholars state that. Anyone should not interpret for themselves. The problem would be that every single 'translation' that is intended to be literally understood would be metaphorically taken. I do not know whether there is an Ayah in the Qur'an that says "Do not interact with women", but if it exists, you would not interpret it non-literally, but instead directly taking the command. How else you would explain that?

It is better to refrain as this could bring the individual closer to Zinaa (adultery) as brother Khaldun has pointed out. And Allah says:

"Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils)".
(Qur'an, Surat Al-Israa, 17:32)

The Qur'an says that you shouldn't come close to Adultery, let alone commit one. By interacting with women (of those not legally allowed for you) physically and or verbally, aren't you coming closer to "Zinaa"? Now would you take that non-literally?

WASSALAAMU 'ALEIKUM WARAHMATULLAAHI WABARAKAATUH
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aamirsaab
01-14-2005, 11:41 AM
sorry bout that erm quran reference.
thanks 4 the correction - yes it was hadith.
however, my point was that we dont always take the literal meaning
i admit my example was bad and flawed
sorry
with regards to zinaa
may i remind u that a lot of us are in college/uni and so will come in contact with other members of the opposite sex.
but if our intentions are clear (see previous replies) then we are not commiting zina.
i understand what u are saying brother mukhtar but would u take for example talking to ur mother or sister a course of zinaa?
No of course u woudnt. it is a similar situation with regards to meeting people in college/uni and the rest of the world
as long as our intentions are clear and all we do is greet them then are we commiting zinaa
nope

wasalam 2 all
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A. Mukhtar
01-15-2005, 09:48 PM
You asked, Quote (Aamisrsaab):

"but would u take for example talking to ur mother or sister a course of zinaa?"

I wanted to answer, but you answered it yourself, saying

"No of course u woudnt".

Talking to your sister or mother or aunty is neither commiting an act of Zinna nor getting close to one. Brother I wish you read my reply properly when I said,

Qoute:

"By interacting with women ("of those not legally allowed for you") physically and or verbally, aren't you coming closer to "Zinaa"?"

It looks like you haven't picked up "Of those NOT legally allowed for you". Your mother is not among them, because she is the one who's womb you've come out from, and has taken care of you, bathed you, fed you... etc. You can engage with your sisters and aunties, in other words, those whom you cannot marry legally.

The other point... I know it happens that you may encounter some interaction during classes in College and University. I do not refuse that, but let me explain this. I will select this complete quote as a context to make sense... You said:

"but would u take for example talking to ur mother or sister a course of zinaa?
No of course u woudnt. it is a similar situation with regards to meeting people in college/uni and the rest of the world
as long as our intentions are clear and all we do is greet them then are we commiting zinaa
nope"

It is not a similar matter. Interacting with your sister is not the same as interacting with non-relating female. It cannot be because you can have feelings for the latter one but not your sister... When I say 'feelings', I think you understand what I mean. I know it is the intention of whether you want engage in such activity or not but don't you think it is better to refrain from it if it is 'avoidable'?

You gradually get lead to that way as you go on... thus, that's why we have been forbidden to interact.
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aamirsaab
01-15-2005, 10:47 PM
ah yes

of course
thank your for pointing that out clearly brother mukhtar.
i understand now from were u are coming from.
yes we should try to refrain from meeting with the opposite sex because it does lead on to other things. i agree with that - i just wasnt sure on your original angle.
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analyze
01-17-2005, 01:10 PM
Ø Almost four out of five rapes are committed by attackers who knew or recognized thier victims (National Information for Victims of Crime, 1998).

Ø 77% of completed rapes are committed by non-strangers (Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1997).

Ø Rape is the fastest growing violent crime in the United States (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1994).

Ø The rate of sexual assualt in the U.S. is the highest of any industrialized nation in the world (Reiso & Roth, 1993).

Ø Approximately 683,000 adult American women are forcibly raped each year (National Center for Victims of Crime & Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center, 1992).

Ø 6 out of 10 sexual assaults occurred in the survivor's home or at the home of a friend, relative, or neighbor (U.S. Department of Justice).

Ø In the U.S., a rape is reported every six minutes (Bureau of Justice, 1991).

Ø National crime studies indicate that 10-16% of adult sexual assaults are reported to law enforcement (Bureau of Justice, 1991).
Read More:

http://www.cometoislam.com/science/sexes.htm
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root
01-20-2005, 10:42 AM
I find it really funny, yes "Funny" when you quote stats this way. Firstly, you fail to mention the stats for Islamic majority countries but I suspect that is because you can't find any.

Another issue and I wonder if someone can confirm this, it is actually illegal for a husband to "Rape" his wife. I think it so typical that Muslim related articles ALWAYS state these sexual offences yet ommit their own stats since they don't have any. It's not even recorded in most Asian countries.

let's publish the stats of "Aids" in the US, slag em off as being immoral and requiring your faith imposed to stop it's spread, but ssshhhh, let's not compare them to Asian countries.

yes we should try to refrain from meeting with the opposite sex because it does lead on to other things.
Of course it does, it's called reproduction. Surely the way forward is education and not segregation! I thought it was really funny when a female Iranian government member was asked how she was going to tackle prostitution, she replied

"Lets punish this crime with death. Kill ten of them and that will be the end of the matter"
Yeah right............
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Rehmat
01-20-2005, 11:53 AM
Originally Posted by A. Mukhtar
I would first of all like to remind Brother Aamirsaab that the quote "Junnah is under your mother's feet" or anything similar does not occur in the Qur'an. You are confusing for a Hadith...
That's true - but even this Hadith is considered "Zaeef (not authentic)" by many Islamic scholars.

Here are my thoughts on adultery among the Jewish, Christian and Islamic Scriptures:

According to the Biblical definition, if a married man sleeps with an unmarried woman, this is not considered a crime at all. The married man who has extramarital affairs with unmarried women is not an adulterer and the unmarried women involved with him are not adulteresses. The crime of adultery is committed only when a man, whether married or single, sleeps with a married woman. In this case the man is considered adulterer, even if he is not married, and the woman is considered adulteress. In short, adultery is any illicit sexual intercourse involving a married woman. The extramarital affair of a married man is not per se a crime in the Bible. Why is the dual moral standard? According to Encyclopedia Judaic, the wife was considered to be the husband's possession and adultery constituted a violation of the husband's exclusive right to her; the wife as the husband's possession had no such right to him. That is, if a man had sexual intercourse with a married woman, he would be violating the property of another man and, thus, he should be punished.

To the present day in Israel, if a married man indulges in an extramarital affair with an unmarried woman, his children by that woman are considered legitimate. But, if a married woman has an affair with another man, whether married or not married, her children by that man are not only illegitimate but they are considered -------s and are forbidden to marry any other Jews except converts and other -------s. This ban is handed down to the children's descendants for 10 generations until the taint of adultery is presumably weakened.

Holy Qur’an, on the other hand, never considers any woman to be the possession of any man. Holy Qur’an eloquently describes the relationship between the spouses by saying:

" And among His signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them and He has put love and mercy between your hearts: verily in that are signs for those who reflect" (Qur’an 30:21).

This is the Qura’nic conception of marriage: love, mercy, and tranquility, not possession and double standards.
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Rehmat
01-20-2005, 12:39 PM
Originally Posted by root
....I thought it was really funny when a female Iranian government member was asked how she was going to tackle prostitution, she replied - "Lets punish this crime with death. Kill ten of them and that will be the end of the matter"
Yeah right............
Well she was just repeating what was commanded by Moses (as) and followed by Qur’anic punishments, which are actually “deterrent” and not “humanly punishment”, as a western self-denial would call it. The results of the western criminal records prove that more than 80% of its criminals become more “harden” during their time in the cells.

But then, a Muslim would not expect a Christian or Jew to accept the so-called “barbaric laws” of Islamic Shri’ah – because their own Holy Books are “very confused” on the matter of rape. For example:

Let us examine how Christianity deals with the rapist: "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (Deuteronomy 22:28)" Although this Verse from the Bible only talks about virgins, but its the only verse in the entire Bible that talks about raping single women. Not to be biased or anything, but the Bible seems to have quite weird things in it that are quite irrational and quite ridiculous. Deuteronomy 22:28 forces the raped woman to marry her rapist. My question to the writers of the Bible is why in the world would any raped female victim want to be in the same town, not the same bedroom !! with her rapist?.

Also, the Bible seems to promote raping of single women: "But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. (Deuteronomy 22:25)" This is quite an interesting verse. We see in Deuteronomy 22:28 that if a man rapes a single woman then she will be forced to be his wife, while if a man rapes a married woman in Deuteronomy 22:25, then he shall be put to death. There is absolutely no punishment for the rapist of a single woman in the Bible. For those Christians who think that they don't have to follow the Old Testament, well my answer to them is this: The Old Testament prohibits for the brother to marry his sister, or for the son to marry his mother. The New Testament doesn't even talk about it. Does that mean that a Christian brother can marry his sister- or a Christian son can marry his mother? Jesus himself anyway ordered his followers to follow the Old Testament, so their argument is totally invalid.

Now, how is the Bible supposed to prevent some loser from stalking the most beautiful single woman in town, rape her, and then sue her in court to become his wife so he can continue raping her for the rest of her life? ;)

And finally, let me finish my post by quoting “the juicy stuff” from Judaism:

"A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse, as commanded by Moses, " - the words of Rabbi R. Meir. :p
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aamirsaab
02-01-2005, 05:03 PM
originally posted by root,

quoted ammirsaab
yes we should try to refrain from meeting with the opposite sex because it does lead on to other things.


Of course it does, it's called reproduction. Surely the way forward is education and not segregation!
(end of quote)

LOL - im not stupid, man. Yes you are correct in saying that it leads to reproduction - HOWEVER! this is only allowed in islam if the two are married - well thats what iv been told neways.
thats y we as muslims should refrain from meetings with the opposite sex.

sorry if i wasnt clear enuff in the original message.
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WomanOfJihad
02-21-2005, 09:44 PM
"And come not near to unlawful sexual intercourse.
Verily, it is a faahishah (a great sin) and an evil way."
[Qur’an Al-Israa 17:32]




~ Beautiful Young Princess ~


There was this beautiful young princess who got lost while hunting and she came upon a hut, where a young attractive man was praying. He looked up and upon learning that she is lost, offered her some food and his bed to sleep in, as night was falling. The princess slept, while the young man put his prayer mat in a corner with a candle, and started praying.

The next day, soldiers who had accompanied the princess on her hunt eventually found the princess in the hut, and took her to the king, and told him the story. The king asked his daughter if she was all right, and the princess just asked for that young man to be brought to the palace.

The young man was picked up and brought before the king and was questioned about being "disrespectful" to the princess. The princess heard of this and went to the king's court. On seeing her young man asked the princess if he had been disrespectful to her.

The princess asked the king to ask the young man what he did during the night. The young man replied that he prayed. The princess agreed that he did so, but she said to ask him why did he put his palm over the candle flame three times during the night.

The young man said:


"I prayed, but from time to time my mind would stray and I would think here is this young beautiful princess. If I go to her, who can stop she and me probably won't tell anyone. In any case I can run away from here. But every time this satanic urge got too much, I would say to myself :
"For this sin you will burn in Hell; let us see if you can stand burning from this candle.”

“So I would put my palm over the flame, and the pain of burning would be so much I would take my hand away, and continue praying. Then after a long time I would go through the same process again it happened three times during the night."


Author : unknown

The choice is ours!!!



"Rasulullah (SAW) explained:

If one of you were to be stabbed in the head with a piece of iron it would be better for him than if he were to touch a woman whom it is not permissible for him to touch."

[Reported by al-Tabaraani; see also Saheeh al-Jaami, 5045]


Rasulullah (SAW) said,

"Whenever a man is alone with a woman the Devil makes a third."
[HR Al-Tirmidhi]


"And those who invoke not any other god along with Allah,

nor kill such life as Allah has forbidden, except for just cause,

nor commit illegal sexual intercourse (zina)

and whoever does this shall receive the punishment. T

he torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection,

and he will abide therein in disgrace;

except those who repent and believe and do righteous deeds,

for those Allah will change their sins into good deeds,

and Allah is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[Qur’an al-Furqaan 25:68-70]

"Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things),

and protect their private parts (from Zina illegal sexual acts, etc.).

That is purer for them.

Verily, Allah is All-Aware of what they do.
[Qur’an An Nuur 24:30]

:w:
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manaal
06-19-2006, 11:37 AM
Bro aamirsaab, what have you got against islam? Your posts sounds like this is all joke to you!
There are very clear and valid reasons why free mixing of men and women is not allowed in islam.
Look at the world today... people meet, fall in "love" and a few months later get divorced. In western countries, couples just "move in" and don't get married, they have kids and after some time get fed up of eachother and break-up, leaving the kid to suffer a broken family life.

I know for a fact that in the world we live in, and spcecially in non-muslim countries, many school, colleges and universities and co-ed. Mixing with the op gender is dificult to avoid. So I would like to use this quranic ayah to show how Muslim men and women should behave in public:

An-Nur - 24:30
Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allâh is All-Aware of what they do.

An-Nur - 24:31
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.


Subbhanallah! Allh command the man to be modest first, and second to the woman.
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Muezzin
06-19-2006, 11:46 AM
Originally Posted by manaal
Bro aamirsaab, what have you got against islam? Your posts sounds like this is all joke to you!
Eh? I think you misunderstood his message.
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
LOL - im not stupid, man. Yes you are correct in saying that it leads to reproduction - HOWEVER! this is only allowed in islam if the two are married - well thats what iv been told neways.
thats y we as muslims should refrain from meetings with the opposite sex.
He agrees that free-mixing should be avoided.
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manaal
06-20-2006, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Eh? I think you misunderstood his message.

He agrees that free-mixing should be avoided.
Yeah I guess so. But the comment "well thats what iv been told neways", annoyed me a little. :thankyou:
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weihan
07-02-2006, 04:53 AM
What if the relationship started before the woman became Muslim and the brother still contacts the woman yet professes to be the perfect muslim. Where does the sister go for advice? I need to know what the proper etiquette is without dissing the brother. Weihan
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