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panIslamist
06-04-2005, 06:53 AM
WASHINGTON - U.S. military officials say no guard at the Guantanamo Bay prison for terror suspects flushed a detainee's Quran down the toilet, but they disclosed that a Muslim holy book was splashed with urine. In other newly disclosed incidents, a detainee's Quran was deliberately kicked and another's was stepped on.

On March 25, a detainee complained to guards that "urine came through an air vent" and splashed on him and his Quran. A guard admitted he was at fault, but a report released Friday evening offering new details about Quran mishandling incidents did not make clear whether the guard intended the result.

In another confirmed incident, water balloons thrown by prison guards caused an unspecified number of Qurans to get wet, and in a confirmed but ambiguous case, a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Quran.

The findings, released after normal business hours Friday evening and after the major TV networks had aired their evening news programs, are among the results of an investigation last month by Brig. Gen. Jay Hood, the commander of the detention center in Cuba. A Newsweek magazine report — later retracted — that a U.S. soldier had flushed one Guantanamo Bay detainee's Quran down a toilet triggered the investigation.

The story stirred worldwide controversy, and the Bush administration blamed it for deadly demonstrations in
Afghanistan.

Hood said in a written statement released with the new details that his investigation "revealed a consistent, documented policy of respectful handling of the Quran dating back almost 2 1/2 years."

Lawrence Di Rita, chief spokesman for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, did not address the confirmed incidents of mishandling the Muslim holy book. Reached while traveling with Rumsfeld in Asia, he said U.S. Southern Command policy calls for "serious, respectful and appropriate" handling of the Quran.

"The Hood inquiry would appear to affirm that policy," Di Rita said.

Hood said that of nine mishandling cases that were studied in detail by reviewing thousands of pages of written records, five were confirmed. He could not determine conclusively whether the other four took place.

In one of the unconfirmed cases, a detainee in April 2003 complained to
FBI and other interrogators that guards "constantly defile the Quran." The detainee alleged that in one instance a female military guard threw a Quran into a bag of wet towels to anger another detainee, and he also alleged that another guard said the Quran belonged in the toilet and that guards were ordered to do these things.

Hood said he found no other record of this detainee mentioning any Quran mishandling. The detainee has since been released.

In the March incident, as described in the report, the guard had left his observation post to go outside to urinate. The wind blew his urine through an air vent into the cell block. The guard's supervisor reprimanded him and assigned him to gate guard duty, where he had no contact with detainees, for the rest of his assignment at Guantanamo Bay.

In another of the confirmed cases, a contract interrogator stepped on a detainee's Quran in July 2003 and then apologized. "The interrogator was later terminated for a pattern of unacceptable behavior, an inability to follow direct guidance and poor leadership," the Hood report said.

Hood also said his investigation found 15 cases of detainees mishandling their own Qurans. "These included using a Quran as a pillow, ripping pages out of the Quran, attempting to flush a Quran down the toilet and urinating on the Quran," Hood's report said. It offered no possible explanation for the detainees' motives.

In the most recent of those 15 cases, a detainee on Feb. 18 allegedly ripped up his Quran and handed it to a guard, stating that he had given up on being a Muslim. Several guards witnessed this, Hood reported.

Last week, Hood disclosed he had confirmed five cases of mishandling of the Quran, but he refused to provide details. Allegations of Quran desecration at Guantanamo Bay have led to anti-American passions in many Muslim nations, although
Pentagon officials have insisted that the problems were relatively minor and that U.S. commanders have gone to great lengths to enable detainees to practice their religion in captivity.

Hood said last week he found no credible evidence that a Quran was ever flushed down a toilet. He said a prisoner who was reported to have complained to an FBI agent in 2002 that a military guard threw a Quran in the toilet has since told Hood's investigators that he never witnessed any form of Quran desecration.

Other prisoners who were returned to their home countries after serving time at Guantanamo Bay as terror suspects have alleged Quran desecration by U.S. guards, and some have said a Quran was placed in a toilet.

There are about 540 detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Some have been there more than three years without being charged with a crime. Most were captured on the battlefields of Afghanistan in 2001 and 2002 and were sent to Guantanamo Bay in hope of extracting useful intelligence about the al-Qaida terrorist network. ;)
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-05-2005, 12:00 AM
:sl:

85:10 Those who persecute the Believers, men and women, and do not turn in repentance, will have the Penalty of Hell: They will have the Penalty of the Burning Fire.
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Danish
06-05-2005, 01:50 PM
:sl:
May Allah (SWT) guide them...
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Far7an
06-05-2005, 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
:sl:

85:10 Those who persecute the Believers, men and women, and do not turn in repentance, will have the Penalty of Hell: They will have the Penalty of the Burning Fire.
Assalamu 'alaikum

Subhanallah

May Allah give them what they deserve.
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Ibn Syed
06-08-2005, 02:58 AM
Originally Posted by Muhammad
:sl:

What I want to know is, how on earth can you urinate in a VENT by MISTAKE?!? :mad:

I mean you'd have to be pretty downright stupid to first unbolt the cover of the vent *by mistake*, and then *mistake* the hole for a toilet...
Yeah really stupid or blind or kafir. May Allah punish them!
:w:
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imaad_udeen
06-10-2005, 09:50 PM
This was in the L.A. Times, any thoughts?

June 9, 2005 latimes.com
Max Boot:
Who's Really Abusing the Koran?
# At Gitmo, the prisoners, not the guards, were the worst offenders.







All the headlines about "Abuse of the Koran at Gitmo" are absolutely accurate. Brig. Gen. Jay Hood's internal investigation has uncovered some shocking incidents. On at least six occasions, Korans were ripped up. They were urinated on three times, and attempts were made to flush them down the toilet at least three other times.

Why aren't millions of Muslims rioting in response to these defilements? Because the perpetrators were prisoners, not guards. As John Hinderaker notes on weeklystandard.com, the most serious desecrations of the Koran at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility were committed by the Muslim inmates themselves.


You'd never know this from the news coverage, which pounced on Hood's finding of five confirmed incidents of Koran abuse as proof that Newsweek was on to something with its phony-baloney report about guards flushing a Koran down the toilet.

Far from confirming accusations of American depravity, what the report actually shows is that Guantanamo is the first gulag in history run on the principle that no sensibility of the inmates should be offended, no matter how inadvertently.

All inmates are furnished a Koran at U.S. government expense. Since they're imprisoned because they are suspected of being violent religious extremists, some might object that this adds fuel to the fire. But that's not the view of the "Stalinists" who run the Defense Department. For some nefarious reason, they have issued guidelines that call for the utmost respect for the sacred scripture of their enemies.

At Gitmo, personnel receive instructions: "Do not disrespect the Koran (let it touch the floor, kick it, step on it)." They must "handle the Koran as if it were a fragile piece of delicate art." This means ensuring "that the Koran is not placed in offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet, or dirty/wet area." Only Muslim chaplains and interpreters are actually supposed to touch a Koran, and then only if wearing clean latex gloves. Moreover: "Two hands will be used at all times when handling the Koran in a manner signaling respect and reverence."

The Hood report suggests that, for the most part, this elaborate etiquette is obeyed. The worst lapse, splashed (so to speak) across front pages around the world, occurred March 25, when a guard urinated outside an air vent and some of his urine blew into a cell and onto an inmate and his Koran. Human rights absolutists should be relieved (sorry, can't help myself) to know that the detainee received a fresh uniform and a new Koran, and the guard was reprimanded and reassigned.

That's the most heinous case of Koran abuse by Gitmo personnel. The four other verified incidents involved an interrogator kicking a Koran, guards accidentally getting a Koran wet with water, an interrogator (subsequently fired) stepping on a Koran and a "two-word obscenity" mysteriously appearing on the inside cover of a Koran.

Some of the most inflammatory allegations, such as guards flushing a Koran, appear to be the result of unsubstantiated rumors spread by inmates who may have been following Al Qaeda instructions to falsely claim mistreatment. Or maybe they were simply trying to deflect blame for all the Korans they were mutilating on their own.

More serious incidents of Koran abuse by Americans conceivably could come to light, but it is clear that anyone who did so would be acting against orders. Reading the Hood report — which is by one count the 189th (no kidding) Defense Department investigation of how prisoners in the war on terrorism are treated — I couldn't help but think: Too bad Muslims don't show the same exquisite concern for the sensibilities of others.

Too bad Islamic states such as Saudi Arabia, far from handing out Bibles at government expense, make it a crime to possess that holy book. Too bad Islamic fanatics have no compunction about blowing up churches and synagogues and slaughtering Christians and Jews. Too bad the murderous intolerance of Sunni terrorists extends to Shiite "idolaters" as well.

All the bombings of Shiites in Iraq have resulted not only in the deaths of thousands of Muslims but also, I imagine, the destruction of quite a few Korans.

It would be nice if the global Islamic community, the news media and assorted human rights agitators could display the same level of outrage about the real atrocities perpetrated by our enemies as they do about the imaginary horrors of the American Gulag.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-12-2005, 09:59 PM
:sl:

My thoughts:
They briefly mention that prisoners actually desecrated the Qur'an, but then instead of explaining this claim and substantiating it, which is what i was expecting, they leave the subject completely. In fact, a break up of the article is:
paragraph 1 - claims that Muslims did it all themselves

paragraph 2 - blaming muslims for not blamin the prisoners, since they allegedly did it themselves according to the article

paragraphs 3-8 - defending guantanamo guards, and belittling the crimes.

paragraph 9 - conspiracy theory that Al-Qaeda planned this. Re-iteration of claim made in first two lines, again without any further commentary, let alone evidence, to support the claim.

paragraph 10 - acknowledging that not only are the allegations against guantanamo guards true, but many more cases could exist

paragraphs 11-12 - common claims that Muslims are intolerant and killing others. labeling all muslims by the actions of a select few. Ironic, because even though Muslims were outraged about guantanamo, they never labelled all christians by the actions of these few!!

last paragraph - claims Muslims are not outraged about other atrocities. Claims that allegations against guantanamo are imaginary, thus contradicting what was menbtioned in paragraph 10.

Just look at the out line of this ridiculous article. Its the biggest piece of trash I've ever seen! A claim that Muslims desecrated their own Holy Book is truly extraordinary, and I would expect at least some explanation, let alone evidence to support the claim! Insteadm they blame Muslims for not condemning this unheard of crime! The flaws and contradictions in this article are innumerable.

Take the claim towards the end of the article that Muslims never condemn terrorist activites, etc. This is a repeated claim, yet it is completely false. Muslims are screaming their lungs out in condemnation of all these atrocities. They will undoubtedly reply, "How come we never hear about it?" The answer is, "because your media doesn't care to show you!!!"

I remembered how Dr. Jamal Badawi commented on these claims by citing the example of 9/11 and stating that practically every organized Islamic group in the world had condemened this, but we never hear about it in the news. No amount of condemnation will satisfy these people.

Then there's the defence of the guards by claiming that one "accidently" urinated outside a vent, and the wind "blew it down the vent by coincidence". This is all nonsense.

Well, that's my view on the article. I was planning on writing more about that piece of trash but I decided its just a waste of my time.

:w:
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imaad_udeen
06-12-2005, 10:54 PM
You summed up my thoughts on it pretty well. I was rather shocked that the L.A. Times would run something with no evidence to back it up.

But then again, opinion articles are often like that.
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imaad_udeen
06-12-2005, 11:05 PM
Here is what the author of the article I posted before was refering too...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050526/...amo_koran_dc_6

The Guantanamo detainee who told an
FBI agent in 2002 that U.S. personnel there had flushed a Koran in a toilet retracted his allegation when questioned this month by military investigators, the
Pentagon said on Thursday.


"We've gone back to the detainee who allegedly made the allegation and he has said it didn't happen. So the underlying allegation, the detainee himself, within the last two weeks, said that didn't happen," chief Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita told a briefing.

Here is another article he used for reference with more detail on Gitmo proceedure concerning the Koran:

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Pu...fxmcs.asp?pg=1

On 18 AUG 03, two detainees complained that the guards had violated the Koran search policy when they touched the surgical masks used to hang detainee Korans from cell walls during a security, safety, and welfare inspection. The incident was recorded in the electronic blotter system. The guards stated in the blotter log that they were not violating Koran search policy because they did not actually touch the Koran when they squeezed and felt for bulges in the surgical masks. The SOP in place at the time of the incident did not address searching the Koran through the masks.

On 5 JAN 03, a translator was called to translate during a search of a cell. The detainee residing
in the cell refused to show his Koran during the search. The guards informed the detainee that if he did not show his Koran they would be forced to search it. The detainee did not comply. The MPs put on clean latex gloves and used a clean towel as they conducted the search. During the search, detainees in nearby cells continuously threw water at the MPs. As the translator departed the cell, the detainee spat on him. The translator recorded the incident in a sworn statement.

On 18 AUG 03, at 1220 hours, a guard conducted a routine search of a detainee's cell. During the search, the guard accidentally knocked the detainee's Koran out of its holder (a surgical mask) and onto his bunk. The block NCO responded to the cell and explained to the detainee that the incident was an accident. The ICRC asked MG Miller, Commander JTF-GTMO, about the incident during a meeting on 09 OCT 03. MG Miller told the ICRC that he had investigated the incident and determined it to be an accident. A guard recorded the incident in sworn statement.
And here is the part of the Hood report which deals with suspected detainee abuse of the Koran:

The Army did find, however, 15 instances of blatant Koran abuse at Guantanamo. All were committed by detainees. For example:

On 14 MAY 03, a guard observed a detainee rip his Koran into small pieces. The guard recorded the incident contemporaneously in a sworn statement.

On 5 JUN 03, a guard observed two detainees accuse a third detainee of not being a man. In response, the detainee urinated on one of their Korans. The detainees resided in adjacent cells. The event was recorded in FBI FD-302s, on 5 JUN 03 and 19 JUN 03.

On 19 JAN 05, a detainee tore up his Koran and tried to flush it down the toilet. Four guards witnessed the incident and it was recorded in the electronic blotter system.

On 23 JAN 05, a detainee ripped pages out of his Koran and threw them down the toilet. The detainee stated he did so because he wanted to be moved to another camp. Four guards witnessed the incident and it was recorded in the electronic blotter system.
For what it's worth....
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-13-2005, 01:04 AM
:sl:

JazakAllah khair for the info, br. Imadudeen. Of course, this is still far from any conclusive proof that the detainees committed these acts. If the allegations are true, however, then they are guilty of the highest blasphemy, punishable by execution.

:w:
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imaad_udeen
06-13-2005, 02:16 AM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
:sl:

JazakAllah khair for the info, br. Imadudeen. Of course, this is still far from any conclusive proof that the detainees committed these acts. If the allegations are true, however, then they are guilty of the highest blasphemy, punishable by execution.

:w:
Yes. I think it is quite amazing that the US has such strict rules for its guards when it comes to handling the Koran.

I , of course, would not put it past a guard doing something to it out of spite, but it's obviously not US policy to desecrate the Koran.

Concerning the prisoners, I would not be surprised if one or two of them did not desecrate their Korans. We have no idea if ALL of them are pious or not.

All Praise is Allah's.
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