The Quran needs to be better translated.

[QuranStudy]

Salaam,

I believe the Quran needs to be better translated since current translations lead to wrong ideas. For instance:

"Do not take the Jews and Christians for friends"
(Surah 5:51).

The most accurate translation would be:

"Do not take the Jews and Christians for military allies"
(Surah 5:51).

See how the entire meaning changes that easilly??

Zakir Naik also cited a few places in Yusuf Ali's translation which results in parts of the Quran becoming contrdictory. Also, the transltions are not specific enough. For instance, nowhere in the Quran is the shape of the Earth compared to an ostrich's egg, which is indeed what the Quran was saying!!

One Arabic word can have multiple meanings. We need a better interpretations of the Quran so that youth in foreign nations can have a better idea of the truth.

[Far7an]

:w:

Not every translation is perfect. Saheeh International is one of the best. It's a huge task translating the qur'an, may Allaah reward those who take up this task.

[QuranStudy]

Saheeh International is one of the best. It's a huge task translating the qur'an, may Allaah reward those who take up this task.

Do you have a link to their translation?

Thanks.

[Far7an]

:sl:

It's available here: http://quran.islamicnetwork.com/

They have a few translations for every surah, check the box and click on Submit.

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[azim]

Asalaamu alaykum.

I think the inability to accurately translate the Quran is part of the Quranic miracle. We're told we're never going to be able to produce even an ayah like the Quran - whether in Arabic or English - and the many translations available that do not even come close to the Quranic beauty is a testament to this.

[Kidman]

The most accurate translation would be:

"Do not take the Jews and Christians for military allies"
(Surah 5:51).

I believe the word is Wali, in that case it should be translated to:
"Do not take the Jews and Christians for leaders"

Yes, i agree, that translation is wrong, and we can have friends that are Christians and Jews, and that's one of the most arguments against Muslims is from that mistranslation. But Wali, is like Leader, or person in charge.

Kidman

[E'jaazi]

What we should hope for, is that we are able to learn to read the Arabic in order to truly understand Its meaning. Also, you have to study and find out when such verses were revealed and why.

[Woodrow]

:sl:

It's available here: http://quran.islamicnetwork.com/

They have a few translations for every surah, check the box and click on Submit.

Jazakallahu Khairan

Excellent link. I like to use several translations for each. Although I can read Arabic fairly well, it is not my native language I know I still do not comprehend the full implications of many words. I still have to rely on transltions for when I am in doubt and I learned a long time ago to use as many translations as are available. The true meaning usually seems to be all of them in combination.

[Isma'el]

Salaam,

I believe the Quran needs to be better translated since current translations lead to wrong ideas. For instance:



The most accurate translation would be:

"Do not take the Jews and Christians for military allies"
(Surah 5:51).

See how the entire meaning changes that easilly??

Zakir Naik also cited a few places in Yusuf Ali's translation which results in parts of the Quran becoming contrdictory. Also, the transltions are not specific enough. For instance, nowhere in the Quran is the shape of the Earth compared to an ostrich's egg, which is indeed what the Quran was saying!!

One Arabic word can have multiple meanings. We need a better interpretations of the Quran so that youth in foreign nations can have a better idea of the truth.

Where did the word "military" come from.???

See problem is that the literarist are taking every thing literaristly...
its not the translation....

U n i shoudnt be even discussing this matter...its best left to the ulama...
Why is it suddently the qurans translations fault...? it's been ok all this time

There are moves out ther by non-muslim n so called muslims to reinterpret the whole quran...so its more moderate..

And we are helping by paving the way..

!!! WAKEUP PPL !!!

[Woodrow]

Where did the word "military" come from.???

See problem is that the literarist are taking every thing literaristly...
its not the translation....

U n i shoudnt be even discussing this matter...its best left to the ulama...
Why is it suddently the qurans translations fault...? it's been ok all this time

There are moves out ther by non-muslim n so called muslims to reinterpret the whole quran...so its more moderate..

And we are helping by paving the way..

!!! WAKEUP PPL !!!

There are moves out ther by non-muslim n so called muslims to reinterpret the whole quran...so its more moderate..

Translation and interpretation are seperate things. Arabic does not translate very well into English. Many Arabic words have no English equivelant. This is the reason a person who is not fluent in Arabic needs to rely on the most accurate translations. A person reading a translation needs to under stand that a translation is not the Qur'an nor an explanation of the Qur'an it is only an attempt at writting it in the language the people know.

An interpretation is not a translation it is a rewritting into the writters belief as to what it says. Interpretations are wrong and need to be seen as such.

Translations are also inaccurate but only because of language barriers not changes in meanings.

Translations can always be improved as people become more adept at the Arabic language. Another problem is most languages constantly change so every few decades the most accurate translations are no longer usefull. We do need to either have the most up to date translation or learn Perfect Arabic. The learning Arabic is the best, but until a person can accomplish that they need to use the best translation available. We do need to know what are the latest translations are if we are to have any concept as to what the Arabic says.

[manaal]

Everyone knows that the most accurate form of the Quran is its original Arabic text, which has been perfectly preserved from the time it was revealed. No other language can give you an accurate translation of the Arabic text.

Why? Simple reasons. No language cn be translated perfectly to any other language. And in the case of Arabic, each word has many meanings and can be interpreted in different ways. Therefore each ayath in the holy quran can be interpreted in different ways.
Another is that we have to understand that we can;t take the superficial meaning of what we read in the Quran or its transltions. (Whihc is sadly what most people do). Neither is Islam a superficial religion.

So the best we can do is to look at the different transaltions and the explanations given to the ayaths. I know for a fact that in Yusuf Ali's translation certain ayaths have been footnoted so that a further explanation can be given to the ayath. This is because the english translation alone is indufficient to understand the meaning of certain ayaths.

[Snowflake]

Salaam,
Zakir Naik also cited a few places in Yusuf Ali's translation which results in parts of the Quran becoming contrdictory.

I must admit Zakir Naik is a genius. Nevertheless I'm wondering if after noticing the contradictions due to the translations, has he considered translating the Quran himself?

[Isma'el]

Mr Naik is Good, but i dont think he can translate the Qur'an..?

[E'jaazi]

Everyone knows that the most accurate form of the Quran is its original Arabic text, which has been perfectly preserved from the time it was revealed. No other language can give you an accurate translation of the Arabic text.

Why? Simple reasons. No language cn be translated perfectly to any other language. And in the case of Arabic, each word has many meanings and can be interpreted in different ways. Therefore each ayath in the holy quran can be interpreted in different ways.
Another is that we have to understand that we can;t take the superficial meaning of what we read in the Quran or its transltions. (Whihc is sadly what most people do). Neither is Islam a superficial religion.

So the best we can do is to look at the different transaltions and the explanations given to the ayaths. I know for a fact that in Yusuf Ali's translation certain ayaths have been footnoted so that a further explanation can be given to the ayath. This is because the english translation alone is indufficient to understand the meaning of certain ayaths.

That was exactly my point in my post. Also, the Arabic in the Qu'ran was and is not the common Arabic spoken amongst the people. That is why when you learn Arabic for Qu'ranic recitation, you must also learn the Tajweed, because mispronounciation of a word or a syllabol can change the meaning. Therefore, we do not need a better translation, we need to learn the Arabic.

[manaal]

That was exactly my point in my post. Also, the Arabic in the Qu'ran was and is not the common Arabic spoken amongst the people. That is why when you learn Arabic for Qu'ranic recitation, you must also learn the Tajweed, because mispronounciation of a word or a syllabol can change the meaning. Therefore, we do not need a better translation, we need to learn the Arabic.

A teacher of Arabic once told me that it all Muslims should learn Arabic as it leads to the better understanding of the quran. An Aalima freind told me that "Arabic is the key to the quran". We should find the key the understand the quran better. We are ignorant because we do not understand the beautiful language of the quran.

[azim]

Asalaamu alaykum.

There are a few hadith that showed the importance of Arabic to Islam, it was in a lecture I heard a few years ago. I can't find any references but perhaps someone will recognise them and be able to help.

The first is regarding Umar:

When he was Khalifah, he was observing Muslims practising in shooting the bow. Some of the younger Muslims we're very inept and kept missing the target. Umar (ra) questioned them as to why they were so bad. One of the Muslims replied "we are only beginners", but while doing so, he a made an grammatical error in Arabic.

To this, Umar responded "your second mistake worries me more than your first".

How important is Arabic if simply making a grammatical mistake while speaking colloquially worries Umar (ra) - the greatest man on this earth after the Prophets and Abu Bakr.

The second hadith is regarding Abu Bakr, who is reported to have said "I would prefer to forget ayats of the Quran rather then make a grammatical mistake".

We see Arabic as sometimes being superfluous part of the deen - but its so essential.

Imam Shafi said "the fitnah of the Ummah is due to Muslims leaving Arabic for the language of the greeks".

It's almost insane that people recite Quran with no attempt and understanding the message.

Subhanallah. May Allah help us all learn Arabic. Ameen.

[^..sTr!vEr..^]

simple...learn Arabic!! jus yesterday i was listenin to a cassette in which it said that almost all translations have mistakes..n it is impossible to translate Allah's book..

[QuranStudy]

I would like to learn Arabic but it takes years to master the language.

[azim]

I would like to learn Arabic but it takes years to master the language.

To master it, yes, it takes years.

To get a superficial understanding, enough to understand whats being said in the Quran will take less then a year.

If you find someone to teach you, thats great. Then read Quran and read translaton straight after in your spare time. Slowly your vocab increases. The Quran only uses 2000 different words, easy to pick up. Also, since Arabic is root based, you can guess the meaning of most words to a general degree of accuracy.

It'll only be good enough to understand the simple meaning of the Quran, but its a start.

[QuranStudy]

I dont have an Arabic tutor near where I live (I live in a Jewish area). Should I start my reading an Arabic dictionary?

[Far7an]

:sl:
You could do that. And there are many websites which could help you make a start too inshaa'Allah. For example:

http://www.madinaharabic.com/

and

http://al-mustaqeem.tripod.com/id1.html Scroll to that bottom. And you'll see: Entire 2-year Arabic language syllabus (of all subjects) as studied at the Institute of Arabic Language - Islaamic University of Madeenah

[QuranStudy]

Mashallah.

Thank you brother Far7an. I am looking foward to learn Arabic so that I can learn the meaning of the Quran as accurately as possible.

Thanks :)

[MusLiM 4 LiFe]

i wud love 2 learn arabic, i know how to read it obviously but nuttin els.. its quite sad.. i wud want a teacher rather than learnin it on da net :?

[azim]

I dont have an Arabic tutor near where I live (I live in a Jewish area). Should I start my reading an Arabic dictionary?

Asalaamu alaykum.

When I first started learning Arabic, the first thing I did was to go through every surah/dua I knew off by heart and learn the meaning of each word I was saying. Since most of us know Surah al-Fatiha plus 'n' number of surahs, we can easily build up a decent vocabulary of just general words.

If you do this along side the lessons online, covering verbs, nouns etc... you'll get a pretty decent idea of Arabic quite quickly.

May I also ask bro, where do you live exactly? Is it in UK?

[QuranStudy]

May I also ask bro, where do you live exactly? Is it in UK?

I live in the United States (Florida).

[azim]

I live in the United States (Florida).

Aaah, I could have helped you find the nearest teacher if you were in the UK, but alas, you're all the way in the US of A.

Well I pray Allah helps us all our goal of understanding the Quran and becoming better Muslims and may Allah guide all of our neighbours (whether they be Jew, Christian or in my case, Rastafarian).

Asalaamu alaykum wr wb.

[QuranStudy]

The problem is that I can't trust translations anymore, as they are misguiding (as you can see from the original post). Arabic words have multiple meanings and I am looking for the way to understand as accurately as possible. Yusuf Ali's translation also leads to contradictions, as shown by Dr. Naik.

Salaam.

[Les_Nubian]

Well either there need to be better translations, or you just need to learn Arabic. :P

[Joe98]

Also, you have to study and find out when such verses were revealed.....

Different verses were revealed at different times?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Thats why its encouraged to read the Quran in Arabic. But since not everyone can...we resort to translations. I would "love" to learn Arabic.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

The problem is that I can't trust translations anymore, as they are misguiding (as you can see from the original post).

:sl:
See the right hand link in my sig for references to good translations. eg. Saheeh Int'l, F. Malik. Obviously, none are absolutely perfect, but there are many praiseworthy works.

With regards to mistranslations of verses, it seems to me that you may be confusing different things. You seem to be under the impression that a good translation will enable you to understand all the issues, rulings, conditions, and wisdoms pertaining to a verse. The reality is that even if you knew arabic you would not be able to get all these things by just reading the verse - that's where you need to consult the books of tafsîr which quote other Qur'ânic verses, the teachings and example of the Prophet saws, the understanding of the Sahâba, notes from arabic linguists, etc. to explain the verse. No matter how many ways you translate 'establish salâh', a person will not become knowledgeable about all the issues and rulings pertaining to salâh just by reading that translation.

:w:

[azim]

Different verses were revealed at different times?

Yes, the Quran was revealed in piece-meal fashion over a period of 23 years.

[manaal]

Different verses were revealed at different times?

Yes. From time to time Allah revealed a few verses of the quran according to the situation. The verses revealed in Makkah are moslty more simple to understnad as it was the beginning of Islam. Most of the more complicated ones were reveled in Medina.

It is important to understand when nad why a certain surah was reveled to understand the ,eaning of the surah better.

One can try this website for intriduction to each quranic surah:
http://www.islam101.com/quran/maududi/iindex.htm

[QuranStudy]

With regards to mistranslations of verses, it seems to me that you may be confusing different things. You seem to be under the impression that a good translation will enable you to understand all the issues, rulings, conditions, and wisdoms pertaining to a verse. The reality is that even if you knew arabic you would not be able to get all these things by just reading the verse - that's where you need to consult the books of tafsîr which quote other Qur'ânic verses, the teachings and example of the Prophet saws, the understanding of the Sahâba, notes from arabic linguists, etc. to explain the verse. No matter how many ways you translate 'establish salâh', a person will not become knowledgeable about all the issues and rulings pertaining to salâh just by reading that translation.

Salaam,

Can you refer me to a good tafsir, one that is very detailed and has commentary of every surah? Who is well known for his tafsir?

Thanks.

[- Qatada -]

:wasalamex


Try the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir insha'Allaah:

http://www.theholybook.org/en/c.4830.html


:salamext:

[al-fateh]

Translation Myths (Attention for everyone)

check the link above, it also shows other examples of mistranslated verses, which also changes the whole meaning of the verse

its people who translated it, so error is expected

[Ibn al-Mubarak]

The best translations out there now are two: first one by Aisha Bewley and her husband called 'The Quran: a rendering of its meanings in english.' The second called 'The Majestic Quran' translated by Shaykh Abdul Hakim Murad(T.J Winters), together with a small group of scholars.

[Curaezipirid]

alaikumassalam

This matter is of essence for us all. It is of extreme importance at this time when polemics in words have so much arbitrary force, and vast sums of money were caused to be made by black magic within such polemics, that we all consider the very precision of Qur'an as central to Islam.

Yet within that I am in disagreement in totality with Qur'an study, that the only method of accurately transmitting Qur'an can be accorded through learning Arabic. The work of translation is real and valid, and it is a skill that we all need retain certainty in masters of.

That is neither to downplay the original recited and also mushaf form.

But since we are required as Muslims to transmit our Islam, by particpating in the process of assisting accurate translations we are fulfilling this requirement upon us as Muslims. Yet neither need we prevent poorer translators from working in that context. I find that only by placing together at least three different translations can the meaning reach my external mind. So if one person hears Qur'an at one specific density of meaning that suits their Soul and life story, then let them tell that such is true for them. Always all translations must defer to the original, such is the nature of translation.

My own preference is to listen to Qur'an entirely in Arabic; but I know that if many Aboriginal persons were to listen to Qur'an in Arabic, it might be that we all start Dreaming aligned with and then living our lives more aligned with and then, after that, begin to tell our own stories aligned with. Surely this is exactly what has already happened to us at the height of the Islamic Empire?

But now in this modern context in which we have access to the internet as well as lessons in reading words made into vain squiggles on paper, if we are not assisted in forming good translations into Aboriginal languages, but persons exceptionally skilled and familiar with Arabic, then what is it that will get painted etc. once Aborigines begin to listen to Qur'an in full original form again? (there are already painted . . . ) mu'asalam

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Salaam,

Can you refer me to a good tafsir, one that is very detailed and has commentary of every surah? Who is well known for his tafsir?

Thanks.

:sl:
Please see the right-hand link in my sig for that as well.

:w:

[Cherub]

Ok i just want to ask..how is it possible that the Qu'ran is the eternal word of God and non Arabic speakers can't understand it?
Why would God make it so difficult ?

The Qu'ran says of itself that it's supposed to be a clear and complete book.
Everything you need to know about serving God allmighty is right in there.
How then is it possible you can't translate it in any other language?

Arabic people the only ones to be saved?

[Cherub]

Just from the first few responses i saw the word wali, now that could apparently mean friend,protector,leader,or military ally.
If one word alone could have so many different meanings then how are we supposed to learn Gods message?

If indeed the Qu'ran is what it claims to be?

I remember having a debate about the meaning of another verse with Muslims, and nobody could say what the verse meant.

It said either wives or companions
Which gave a different meaning to the entire verse.
Don't recall which one it was exactly, but it had to do with hell and a sinner being brought there with his companions or wives after they die.
Which seemed a rather significant difference.

[Kidman]

Just from the first few responses i saw the word wali, now that could apparently mean friend,protector,leader,or military ally.
If one word alone could have so many different meanings then how are we supposed to learn Gods message?

If indeed the Qu'ran is what it claims to be?

I remember having a debate about the meaning of another verse with Muslims, and nobody could say what the verse meant.

It said either wives or companions
Which gave a different meaning to the entire verse.
Don't recall which one it was exactly, but it had to do with hell and a sinner being brought there with his companions or wives after they die.
Which seemed a rather significant difference.

When it says that a girl needs a Wali to get married, are they talking about a wife, companion.. etc... no, they are talking about the gardian/leader of the girl.

Kidman

[Cherub]

When it says that a girl needs a Wali to get married, are they talking about a wife, companion.. etc... no, they are talking about the gardian/leader of the girl.

Kidman

So ok..if we take your version of Wali then all Muslims should leave the countries where they live under a non-Muslim leader.
Which doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

[Cherub]

What about a non-Muslim boss?
Is that allowed?

I mean if you have so many different meanings to the word.
Is a Muslim allowed to have non-Muslim security guards?

[Kidman]

So ok..if we take your version of Wali then all Muslims should leave the countries where they live under a non-Muslim leader.
Which doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

Actually yes... But since they let you practice your religion freely in most countries, then it is ok to remain in places like the U.S. My sheikh even said himself... that it would be haram for him to live in the U.S if there wasn't anyone for him to teach islam to. But since they let you practice religion freely, and you can spread the teachings of Islam and the word of Allah here, it is acceptable to live here.

Kidman

[Kidman]

What about a non-Muslim boss?
Is that allowed?

I mean if you have so many different meanings to the word.
Is a Muslim allowed to have non-Muslim security guards?

Non-Muslim boss, if they segregate you in any way, or don't let you practice your religion (like to do prayers or for women to wear hijab), then no, your not allowed.

As far as having non-Muslim security guards, these people are working for you, so that doesn't apply.

Kidman

[manaal]

Cherub and kidman, you two are going off topic............. :-)

[Kidman]

Cherub and kidman, you two are going off topic............. :-)

Sorry, lol.. but it was a good question on that right??

Kidman

[QuranStudy]

Sorry, lol.. but it was a good question on that right??

No problem bro. The discussion was getting interesting :D

[Curaezipirid]

alaikum assalam

it is that I have been contemplating this thread during a week without access to a computer

It occurred to me that it has not been defined where is the difference between the responsilbilty of any person whom is accessing translations of Qur'an, to find the best possible measure by which to access; and the responsiblities of those whom provide translations, to provide the very best translations.

Both parties must be held responsible and neither should accord any blame to the other.

Yet it is also the case that there have been translations made by non-believers whom want such to work to only thier own purposes. At the risk of seeming to be a hypocrite, since I my self have been highlighting the issue of faulted translations, it is that I believe that those whom are most inclined towards pointing a finger in blame about mistranslations, are most likely also to prefer the mistranslations, if not prove to be responsible for.

When we live in a world in which Arabic speakers have explained that we need Arabic language for them to be adequately able to teach us Qur'an; then we must assume two things. First that our own teaching of English is inadequate, if not the language itself; and second, that we must seek out all available translations and undertake comparative research. Any English student of Qur'an who is not so inclined is a pure fool since we are all informed of the importance of Arabic.

I believe that, in the same way that Aboriginal Australians are insistent that we must only speak to others in our own languages and they will learn if they need to/want to/ are enabled to; that the full comprehension of Qur'an is quite by nature accorded.

While I sit here listening to recitations at the computer without any comprehension of Arabic, and like reading at least two translations, if not three, if I am going to read it at all: I simply can not regard the matter of any translation that is limiting, as worthy of faulting unless there has been sourced evidence of a faulted purpose in the act of translation, and with which every aspect of an entire translation accords.

That is all that I have further mu'asalam.

[Norar]

Salaam u'alaikoem brothers and sisters.

To learn more about why the Quran is in Arabic you need to watch this
video.

Its worht watching every minute.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...84745017319910