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doodlebug
08-31-2006, 01:39 PM
Don't know if this is the right place for this question but here goes....


I'm close to understanding that the Qu'ran was sent directly from God, but I'm stuck again one another point....


why, if the Qu'ran is so pure and all, are there different sects of Islam?:?
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Khaldun
08-31-2006, 01:47 PM
:sl:

Without going into the issue of sectarian beliefes etc, the split is quite obvious. The Quran is pure but throughout history there have always been people that have been insincere or just ignorant and used Islam to their own benefit and only followed their desires. The most logical thing to do would be to follow the Quran and Sunnah in the light of the understanding of the people who were closest to the Prophet (May peace and blessings be upon him) who either saw him or meet people who knew him personally etc.
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doodlebug
08-31-2006, 01:57 PM
So which way is the right way? How would someone looking to revert even know which one to pick?
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QuranStudy
08-31-2006, 02:00 PM
You dont really have to pick. A true Muslim follows everything in the Quran and hadeeth. Sects are imo stupid and such division (though political rather than religious) are forbidden in the Quran.
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Khaldun
08-31-2006, 02:08 PM
:sl:

The true path is following the Quran and Sunnah based on the understanding of the pious predecessors. No one will argue with you on that. Try to to stay away from all the strange and mystic practises people have introduced into the religion, when a person instructs you to do something and says its "Islam" or claims the a certain "Shaykh" has ilm of everything (just as an example) always ask, what is your evidence for it? And evidence should only be brought from the Quran, Sunnah or from the saying of the Companions of the Prophet (May peace and blessings be upon him) and those who followed them in goodness.
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doodlebug
08-31-2006, 02:11 PM
Oh ok. So basically the whole sect thing in Islam is very different concept than say the difference between Catholicism and a Baptist in Christianity. Right?
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AvarAllahNoor
08-31-2006, 02:16 PM
Are there not 72 sects?
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Khaldun
08-31-2006, 02:22 PM
:sl:

Im not very well versed in the differences between Catholicism and Baptist, however the Prophet (May peace and blessings be upon him) warned us against sects and himself predicted the divisions that would come.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “My community will experience everything that the Children of Israel had experienced, following in their footsteps exactly, so much so that if one of their number had approached his mother publicly for sex, one of my community will do the same. The Children of Israel divided into 72 sects. My community will divide into 73 sects, and all of them will be in the Hellfire save one.”

The people asked him: “And which one will that be

He replied: “The one that follows what I and my Companions are upon right now.”
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Kidman
08-31-2006, 02:23 PM
Basically, all you can do is learn for yourself and when you believe something to be true, you must follow your belief.

Kidman
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AhlaamBella
08-31-2006, 02:24 PM
When people ask me 'what I am'? I simply say a muslim. In my opinion a muslim should follow quran and sunnah but turn to scholars and Imams when in a state of confusion. My whole school is hanafi. They call me a ******. I call myself a muslim. We are all muslims created by Allah to worship him. Why should we be so divided? The answer is we shouldn't.

Thats my opinion anyway. :)
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Mohsin
08-31-2006, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by doodlebug
So which way is the right way? How would someone looking to revert even know which one to pick?

The prophet PBUH also said stick with the majority, as the majority will never be misguided. Today we see most people as orthodox sunni, over 80% of muslims. 98% of converts become sunni. So usually it's not a problem. Besides, the true Islam that the prophet PBUH and his companions practised is always clear
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Mohsin
08-31-2006, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by Baby_Pearl
When people ask me 'what I am'? I simply say a muslim. In my opinion a muslim should follow quran and sunnah but turn to scholars and Imams when in a state of confusion. My whole school is hanafi. They call me a ******. I call myself a muslim. We are all muslims created by Allah to worship him. Why should we be so divided? The answer is we shouldn't.

Thats my opinion anyway. :)
madhabs is different, they differ on fiqh issues. Its not a question of Aqeeda, belief. Its the problem today, the ummah is so disunited that even on issues of jurisprudence they like to label each other :heated:
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Samee
08-31-2006, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by Baby_Pearl
When people ask me 'what I am'? I simply say a muslim. In my opinion a muslim should follow quran and sunnah but turn to scholars and Imams when in a state of confusion. My whole school is hanafi. They call me a ******. I call myself a muslim. We are all muslims created by Allah to worship him. Why should we be so divided? The answer is we shouldn't.

Thats my opinion anyway. :)
:sl:

Of course we should be united. But as Khaldun said above, there will always be people who will use religion to advance their political gains. There is simply nothing we can do about that kind of stuff. They just want to label themselves "Muslims" and use half of the religion for their own desires.

The saved sect is the sect who uses the Qu'ran as everyday guidance, who refers to the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace be upon him) for everyday guidance, and who refers to the four great Imams for clarification on these subjects.

:w:
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Kidman
08-31-2006, 02:28 PM
The divide came after the Prophet (pbuh); The core beliefs remained the same, it was just difference in who was to succeed the Prophet (pbuh). If he choose a successor or left it to the people. Then, each side has their own set of beliefs upon which Hadiths of the Prophet (pbuh) to be authentic and which are low credibility sources. I'm not going to put my opinion on what i believe, cause i have done my own research, it is up to you to do your own research by looking at history and the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh).

Kidman
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Mohsin
08-31-2006, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Are there not 72 sects?

It says it will divide into 72 sects, that doesn't mean they are prevalent now. The only majority sects today are sunni and shia'

The 72 sects is a hadith anyway, not from the Qur'an, I've heard one scholar say the authenticity of the hadith is not that strong. i dunno, Allah knows best!
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umm-sulaim
08-31-2006, 02:29 PM
masha Allah bro khaldun is right,
to follow the qur'aan and sunnnah along with the understandings of the pious predecessors is the right way...

wassalaam
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AhlaamBella
08-31-2006, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by umm-sulaim
masha Allah bro khaldun is right,
to follow the qur'aan and sunnnah along with the understandings of the pious predecessors is the right way...

wassalaam

I agree 100%
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Kidman
08-31-2006, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
The prophet PBUH also said stick with the majority, as the majority will never be misguided. Today we see most people as orthodox sunni, over 80% of muslims. 98% of converts become sunni. So usually it's not a problem. Besides, the true Islam that the prophet PBUH and his companions practised is always clear
So if the majority of Shia Muslims go up and surpasses the Sunni's, then you will switch sects to "be with the majority?"

I don't believe in sticking with the majority, i believe in doing research. If you stick with the Majority then you might as well be Christian.

Kidman
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Khaldun
08-31-2006, 02:33 PM
:sl:

The hadith is authentic. http://islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?ca...sub_cat_id=824

Please try to refrain making this into a sectarian thread, and its wrong to say only Shia and Sunnis exsist today.
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Nawal89
08-31-2006, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
It says it will divide into 72 sects, that doesn't mean they are prevalent now. The only majority sects today are sunni and shia'

The 72 sects is a hadith anyway, not from the Qur'an, I've heard one scholar say the authenticity of the hadith is not that strong. i dunno, Allah knows best!
they are prevelant now akhi, more than 72, from what i learned this seventy two is the major ones.

Most people can be called sunni, but if you look into their aqidah, some of them are really really off. Even though they make salat, pay zakat, etc. What makes this ummah divided today is basically the aqidah.
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AhlaamBella
08-31-2006, 02:34 PM
If I stuck with the majority in school I'd be going out without Hijab, with a different guy every day and basically embarassing muslims around the world.
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Mohsin
08-31-2006, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by Kidman
So if the majority of Shia Muslims go up and surpasses the Sunni's, then you will switch sects to "be with the majority?"

I don't believe in sticking with the majority, i believe in doing research. If you stick with the Majority then you might as well be Christian.

Kidman

Brother, It's what the Prophet told us to do. I don't believe shi'a will become majority, as people usually follow what the prophet Muhammed PBUH taught as was understoody by the companions, who were alive during his time

By the way you can say Cjristianity is biggest religion in world (which is debatable as most say they are christian by name and dont even know teachings) Islam is fastest growing religion in the world and will very soon insha'allah be the biggest.

But by no means that doesn't mean we shouldn't do research and look at the proofs
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Mohsin
08-31-2006, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by Baby_Pearl
If I stuck with the majority in school I'd be going out without Hijab, with a different guy every day and basically embarassing muslims around the world.

i meant what the scholars say. If I meant to follow the laymen then we might aswel not pray :rollseyes
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Mohsin
08-31-2006, 02:45 PM
I think this thread should be closd, as it is fast turning sectarian. i apologise for initiating this in some way
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Khaldun
08-31-2006, 02:50 PM
:sl:

This hadith refers to issues that muslims are not agreed upon in matters of actions of worship etc. Its dangerous to qoute this hadith when it comes to the tenents of faith as the Quran says.

And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; they follow but conjecture and they only lie. [Surah Al-An'am]

When it comes to Aqidah, beliefs we have to be very careful, and only follow that which the Prophet (May peace and blessings be upon him) was upon.
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umm-sulaim
08-31-2006, 02:50 PM
a7santi nawal, like the prophet said in hadeeth abee sa3eed al khdhree "whowever of you sees wrong should change it with his hand, and if he can't then with his tongue, and if he can't then with his heart and that is the wakest eemaan/faith"
bukhari,muslim.

wassalaam
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Khaldun
08-31-2006, 02:51 PM
:sl:

And this is a clear example why LI does not allow these type of discussions.

:threadclo
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