The Lord's Prayer

[doodlebug]

Jesus, alaihi salaam, said to pray like this:

"our father, who art in heaven
hallowed be thy name
thy kingdom come
they will be done
on earth as it is in heaven
give us this day
our daily bread
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those
who trespass against us
and deliver us from evil
for thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory forever,
amen"

What is objectional to Muslims in this prayer and why, if we were told to pray it this way, is it not part of the things a Muslim says 5 times a day?:?

[جوري]

who said this prayer is objectionable? I find it more of a supplication than an actual prayer that we Muslims are accustomed to....some prayers are objectionable when you pray to jesus or mary or some saint... for obvious reasons.... When I went to catholic school they said this prayer every morning... I sat quietly in respect of their ritual... I didn't melt like the wicked witch of the east hehe

[doodlebug]

who said this prayer is objectionable? I find it more of a supplication than an actual prayer that we Muslims are accustomed to....some prayers are objectionable when you pray to jesus or mary or some saint... for obvious reasons.... When I went to catholic school they said this prayer every morning... I sat quietly in respect of their ritual... I didn't melt like the wicked witch of the east hehe

I wasn't sure if it was or was not objectional. Just was curious if it was.

So basically, I would be able to say this in addition to the other prayers?

[جوري]

see in Islam you can make a supplication like the above...... you can add your own words or use supplications already out there.. or use a "sib7a" sort of like your rosary but without the cross.... but the actual prayer that we preform is very specific... the only equivlant I can think of is you, using actual passages from the bible... this is just a gist, we start we use "alfati7a" which is the first sura... followed by the short sura of your choice... then we praise and Allah in different kneeling... then we I am not sure the English word but basically a rough translation would be greetings to god and good prayers... peace be upon the prophetwith god's mercy and blessings... blessings and mercy upon us, we ask god to give "salwat" to moahmmed and his nations as he has given Abrahaem and his nations, as well as blessings... each portion of the prayer requires a different portion... I can try to find you a detailed English description if you are interested?.... but this is a very distilled and poorly translated idea of how we preform prayers
peace

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[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Our prayer is more than just that. Like purest said, something like what u posted is considered a supplication. The 5 daily prayers is our direct connection to God. Not through anyone or anything. Simply direct.

[doodlebug]

Our prayer is more than just that. Like purest said, something like what u posted is considered a supplication. The 5 daily prayers is our direct connection to God. Not through anyone or anything. Simply direct.

Ok but how is the prayer above not a direct connection though?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Lol i didnt mean to say it wasnt. I said we would consider it a supplication. But the real deal is our 5 daily prayers. Both important.

[Muslim Knight]

Jesus, alaihi salaam, said to pray like this:

"our father, who art in heaven
hallowed be thy name
thy kingdom come
they will be done
on earth as it is in heaven
give us this day
our daily bread
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those
who trespass against us
and deliver us from evil
for thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory forever,
amen"

What is objectional to Muslims in this prayer and why, if we were told to pray it this way, is it not part of the things a Muslim says 5 times a day?:?

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
Show us the straight way,
The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

(Surah Al-Fatihah, verses 1-7)

There's nothing objectionable, but we Muslims were given better way, Islamic way of praying to God, from the Message that was given to His Last Messenger, Muhammad salallahu 'alayhi wassalaam, the Seal of the Prophets. The Muslims recite this Surah not 5 but 17 times a day.

[glo]

I didn't melt like the wicked witch of the east hehe

LOL
That's a relief!!! :giggling:

[glo]

I find the concept of praying in a very prescribed way very alien and ritualistic. :?

I tend to pray to God in a much more informal way. In fact, the Lord's prayer is probably the most formal prayer I know.
To me a formal prayer is what you say when you can't think of anything else to say ... if that makes sense :?

I can understand that specific rituals focus your mind on God, and reduce the distractions of life - but I fail to understand how they can open your heart to God. :?
I imagine it to get really repetative and quite difficult not to drift off into closing your heart and just muttering the words ...

No offence, of course! (But you know that!) Just me, pondering ... :)

Peace.

[- Qatada -]

Hi glo.


If you read refer back to the prayer Muslim Knight posted, if one was to look into the depth of its meaning - it makes one realise that by having a life that distracts a person from being spiritual, then returning back to your Creator (5times a day) and remembering His Majestic Qualities makes one feel more at ease and gives the person a feeling spiritual of enlightenment.


If one was just to pray for what he/she wanted - then the person may just feel like he/she is asking Allaah for something without actually reflecting on the Power and Greatness that Allaah Almighty has. So instead of just making it a one way connection - a person remember's Allaah Almighty, His Attributes - which further emphasises and encourages the person to make their supplication:

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
Show us the straight way,
The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

(Surah Al-Fatihah, verses 1-7)

This is the recitation in arabic:

Media Tags are no longer supported

There is a really important intention that we have in salaah/prayer - and that is to have khushoo' - khushoo' is concentration, and the person feels as if they are standing in front of Allaah, speaking to Him, and Praising Him. Like you can see - the blue text above is all the ways we are praising Him, Almighty. While we are praising Him, we are reflecting on His Attributes.

After we have praised Him, we recite Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek. - so we are saying to Allaah that we worship You Alone, and You Alone we ask for help. This is leading upto our actual supplication which every muslim want's to stay firm on, and that is to stay on the right path: Show us the straight way, The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.



If one was to pray this in different times of the day, while removing all the worldly distractions from their mind - then it increases the person in faith each time they recite it because they are remembering Allaah Almighty and His Attributes,

Allaah Almighty says:


Therefore remember Me (by praying, glorifying, etc.). I will remember you, and be grateful to Me (for My countless Favours on you) and never be ungrateful to Me. (Qur'an Surah Baqarah [2] : 152)


"Those who believe (in the Oneness of God - Monotheism), and whose hearts find rest in the rememberance of Allah. Verily, in the rememberance of Allah do hearts find rest." (Quran Ar-Ra'd 13:28)

It also increases the person in guidance and strengthens them in faith, because Allaah will respond to His servant's prayer, especially when the servant has humbled him/herself to Allaah.


A believer also knows that performing salaah is a noble act, and if one was to die in that state - they would be blessed, because every soul will be resurrected on the day of judgement in the way it died, hence if a person died in a state of humbleness towards their Creator - then they will be resurrected in a noble state insha'Allaah (God willing.)


After a person has performed salaah - then they can supplicate to Allaah in whatever language they wish, for whatever they wish - as long as it is not for something forbidden/haraam, or for breaking the ties of kinship etc.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

[glo]

Thanks, Fi_Sabillah!

I agree that we should always reflect on God's power, love and mercy.
I agree that we should pray to God in worship and praise.
I agree that the purpose of prayer is not just to ask for things for our own benefit.
I agree that in prayer we should humble ourselves before God.
I agree that God knows best.

Much to agree about - and yet we address God in prayer in very different ways.

Peace, bro. :)

[doodlebug]

Is there like a "how to so salaah for dummies" somewhere in existance? I know the movements but have no clue what to say.

[- Qatada -]

Hi doodlebug.


Check these links insha'Allaah (God willing.)


http://www.islam.com/salat/salatfinal.html

http://www.bahagia.btinternet.co.uk/prayer1.html



http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503547014



Peace.

[S_87]

I find the concept of praying in a very prescribed way very alien and ritualistic. :?

I tend to pray to God in a much more informal way. In fact, the Lord's prayer is probably the most formal prayer I know.
To me a formal prayer is what you say when you can't think of anything else to say ... if that makes sense :?

I can understand that specific rituals focus your mind on God, and reduce the distractions of life - but I fail to understand how they can open your heart to God. :?
I imagine it to get really repetative and quite difficult not to drift off into closing your heart and just muttering the words ...

No offence, of course! (But you know that!) Just me, pondering ... :)

Peace.

Peace

i get what you mean but muslims pray to Allah both *formally* and *informally*
ie the five daily prayers.
and a persons *dua* prayer to Allah. the dua can be asking from Allah, Praising Allah, and talking to Allah. this can be in your own words too

[doodlebug]

Hi doodlebug.


Check these links insha'Allaah (God willing.)


http://www.islam.com/salat/salatfinal.html

http://www.bahagia.btinternet.co.uk/prayer1.html



http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503547014

Thanks. Are you allowed to use cheat sheets 'cause I would never be able to memorize all that so quickly!:uuh:

[- Qatada -]

Hi doodlebug.


Obviously it takes time to practise, so you should take your time on that and gradually you will learn insha'Allaah. But it would be alot better if a person was to become a muslim and then learn how to perform the prayers, because your deeds wouldn't be accepted unless one was a muslim.

"The Religion in the sight of Allah is Islam." (Qur'an 3:19)

In another verse Allaah Almighty says:

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Submission to Allah), Never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost."(Qur'an 3:85)

So if you were to become muslim, you would be rewarded for all your efforts, and your prayers etc.



Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

[doodlebug]

Hi doodlebug.


Obviously it takes time to practise, so you should take your time on that and gradually you will learn insha'Allaah. But it would be alot better if a person was to become a muslim and then learn how to perform the prayers, because your deeds wouldn't be accepted unless one was a muslim.

"The Religion in the sight of Allah is Islam." (Qur'an 3:19)

In another verse Allaah Almighty says:

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Submission to Allah), Never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost."(Qur'an 3:85)

So if you were to become muslim, you would be rewarded for all your efforts, and your prayers etc.



Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

I know but my fear is that I will make my Shahadah and then not know what to do, so I was going to try to get it all down pat beforehand, lest I mess up royally.

:)

[- Qatada -]

I think it's alot better if you were to become muslim and then learn how to do things gradually. Because like you know - a person can die at anytime, so by reciting the shahadah, you're a muslim insha'Allaah. And then the effort that you put in - you will be rewarded and blessed for that.

Allaah will make the path easier for you, because you chose the path towards your Creator, and because of your sincerety.

The Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: Allah the Almighty said:

I am as My servant thinks I am (1). I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.

(1) Another possible rendering of the Arabic is: "I am as My servant expects Me to be". The meaning is that forgiveness and acceptance of repentance by the Almighty is subject to His servant truly believing that He is forgiving and merciful. However, not to accompany such belief with right action would be to mock the Almighty.

You don't need to feel guilty if you don't know how to perform salaah etc, but with your sincerety and by the help of Allaah Almighty - you will learn gradually insha'Allaah. And that is way more blessed and royal, than knowing that islam is the truth and delaying it. I'm sure that your future husband would be more happier that way too insha'Allaah.



Allaah Almighty knows best, and if you have any questions - you can create a new thread or keep asking insha'Allaah (God willing.)


Peace.

[doodlebug]

thanks. i keep posting in here because when i post in the intro to islam section my posts take a day or so to show up. not that i'm a total "fast food" type girl but if something isn't addressed in a day then I kind of forget why i asked. :) I do that a lot. I go in the kitchen and stand in front of the fridge wondering why the heck i went there to begin with. lol

[- Qatada -]

Don't worry about it, i've experienced the same thing. If you have alot of thoughts in your head, why not keep a diary? That way - you'll be able to keep all your thoughts on paper and it will be alot easier to remember insha'Allaah (God willing.)



Anyway, Peace out and if you got anything to ask, please don't hesitate to.

[doodlebug]

thanks!

[جوري]

I find the concept of praying in a very prescribed way very alien and ritualistic. :?

I tend to pray to God in a much more informal way. In fact, the Lord's prayer is probably the most formal prayer I know.
To me a formal prayer is what you say when you can't think of anything else to say ... if that makes sense :?

I can understand that specific rituals focus your mind on God, and reduce the distractions of life - but I fail to understand how they can open your heart to God. :?
I imagine it to get really repetative and quite difficult not to drift off into closing your heart and just muttering the words ...

No offence, of course! (But you know that!) Just me, pondering ... :)

Peace.

yup informal prayer is called supplication......... I find ritualistic prayer to have many benefits
1 - sustenance for the soul

- 2 - safeguards one's physical and emotional health... I posted a medical article on the health of the status of those who meditate and pray to those who don't and its affects on recovery and depression...

- 3 - It keeps away harmful thoughts away.

- 4 - It casts away hatred toward others and humbles oneself.

- 5 - It strengthens the heart.

- 6 - It brightens one's countenance.

- 7 - It delights the soul.

- 8 - It gets rid of laziness. I can't tell you how amazing that is in other aspects... you will never delay a project, if you always make prayers on time

- 9 - It makes the limbs active. and it is an excellent quick exercise

- 10 - It increases one's physical strength.

- 11 - It expands the chest (making one at ease and giving him insight).

- 12 - It is nourishment for the soul.

- 13 - It illuminates the heart.

- 14 - It safeguards your heart and mind.

- 15 - It repels catastrophes, time you can be spending cursing and being miserable, you spend reflecting.

- 16 - It brings on blessings. a close direct relationship between you and God

- 17 - It draws one close to Ar-Rahmaan (Allaah, the Most Merciful), for even if you are negligant in one... you have a chance to make it up in the next..
18- it makes you not treat God like a (genie) please grant me this and I'll be good sort of thing... no every day you spend praying so there is no hypocrisy when you are truly needy.... you can make supplication in the sijood part of your prayer... it is amazing... to kneel and cry and know that God is listening and merciful....... in and of itself prayer releases (seratonin) a chemical similar to that found in anti-depressants (SSRI's) minus the harmful side affects, as your body is making it naturally, and you are not forcing it out....
my two cents... and thank you for your time
:w:

[glo]

Thanks Ambrosia :)

I agree that most of these are benefits of prayer - although I would argue that this is not the case for ritualistic and formalised prayer alone ... :)

I also agree that prayer should be performed every day, because God deserves our praise and worship always and in all situations, not just when we feel in need of his help!

The more physical aspects puzzle me, though (see 9,10 and possibly 11)
Is the Islamic for of prayer seen as a physical exercise? Or meditative postures, similar to those in yoga? :?

Peace :)

[جوري]

No, no... those are my spins on it.... the benefits that might not be so obvious.... the point of prayer is to have constant open communication with God.... all the other features are just nice bonuses.... sort of like when you plant a tree because it looks lovely in your garden but end up enjoying its fruit as well as its cool shade, and its fragrant flowers, as well as having it protect you from nosy neighbors... just added benefits, that is all... :smile:

[Fishman]

The more physical aspects puzzle me, though (see 9,10 and possibly 11)
Is the Islamic for of prayer seen as a physical exercise? Or meditative postures, similar to those in yoga? :?

Peace :)

:sl:
When we pray, we praise Allah (swt) with both our mouths and minds, and our bodies.

Speaking of prayer, isn't it time now?
:w:

[glo]

:sl:
When we pray, we praise Allah (swt) with both our mouths and minds, and our bodies.

Speaking of prayer, isn't it time now?
:w:

Better be off then. See you later. :)

I'm off for a curry now. :D

[Umar001]

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulahi Wa Berekatu,

With regard to the first poster's question, first I would like to say, Hi and welcome, I have not seen you around before and I hope to gain knowledge from you, InshaAllah, God Willing.

Personally, the 'Lord's Prayer'

I would object using it, for the reason that it commences, 'Our Father' in Islam there is a Pricinple of Tawheed, it is like recognising the UNITY of Almighty God, and part of the Tawheed system, is a catagory named, 'Names and Attributes' and it encorperates that we, God's creation, should call to God with names he has ascribed to Himself, names He has told us and described Himself by, Such as Most Merciful, and so forth, I don't think 'Father' is one of those names in the Qu'ran And Sunnah, prophetic sayings, and because the Bible is not the same as when Jesus peace be upon him was there, and is not authenticated by HIM, we cannot say this is a name of God, thus we cannot, or rather I should say, Should Not, say Our Father, when refering to God, since He never, or His last Prophet never said it.

Quite Contrary God, tells us, 'Lam Yulid wa Lam Yulad' roughly translated as, He Begets not nor is he Begotten, for me to say God is our Father, in a spiritual type of way, would or may lead to people later thinking I meant maybe that God Begot us. That's another reason I would not say it.


With Regards to the Formal and Informal Prayers,

The Formal, are I believe also described as someething like a prevention or something, where a Muslim, maybe a weak one, or any normal human, who maybe wants to do something bad, for example commit fornication, if he knows he has to pray, he knows he has to wash after the fornication, so he may think, let me meet the girl early in the Morning, then he remembers he has Fajr prayer, and he cant wash and meet and then wash again to pray and so on, and then he thinks I will finish work or take my lunch break soon, let me meet the girl, then he realises at lunch he has another prayer and he cant have a bath at work, so he leaves it, and so on throught the day.

Before people scream at me and tell me, 'Oh muslim, or good people dont sleep around' I agree, but some who are weak and so forth find it hard, but through the formal prayer and keeping to it they are saved by this, Alhamdulilah, THAT IS A BENEFIT, NOT A REASON WHY WE DO IT.

The prayer is not formal neither, there are du'as in the prayer, supplications, where you can ask for anything, when the Muslim is in postration with his head to the ground this is the best time to supplicate and ask God for anything, different people have different desires so they can ask for different things from what I have read.

Also, a Muslim recites part of the Qu'ran, they can choose any part, (surah Fatiha has to be included) Big or Small, same or different, so it does vary, and they get another blessing, they not only are praying to their God, but also learning and revising their scripture in their prayer, for this reason Dr. Zakir Naik calls Salah, nor Prayer, but Programming!

But yes this prayer is constructed in a way which is or may seem repetative.

Also, Du'as/Supplications, as done by the Prophet peace be upon him, are with us, for almost any action you can think of, Alhamdulilah for that!

Plus you can ask for anything you want.


So in ISlam there is the """"Formal"""" and Informal, I guess thats what they are reffered to here.

[glo]

I haven't seen you for ages, Isa!
Where have you been???

Welcome back! :)