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QuranStudy
09-07-2006, 02:51 PM
How come there are no female holy figures in the Abrahamic religions??

Thanks.
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Jayda
09-07-2006, 03:10 PM
i dont know about islam but for Christians there is Mary Mother of God, Mary Magdalene Ruth, Esther, Sarah and Abigail... there are many more but those are the ones i can think of right now...
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sameer
09-07-2006, 03:58 PM
when u say holy figures, do u mean like prophets etc? or just reagarded as holy and chaste?

these are just a few:

There is an entire chapter of Quran called Maryam (ra).
AYesha (ra), the wife of MUhammad (saw) transmited the most hadith.
The first person to accept islam was a woman - Khadijah (ra).
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Kidman
09-07-2006, 04:14 PM
Khadija(A.S), Fatima (A.S), Mary(A.S) mother of Prophet Isa (PBUH), and Assiyya (A.S) who was the wife of the evil Pharaoh.

Kidman
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wafa islam
09-07-2006, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
How come there are no female holy figures in the Abrahamic religions??

Thanks.
:sl:

If this is something you want answers for, (I mean real answers) then you should ask a scholar, either directly or online. (I don't think there are scholars on this forum) In that way you would have the chance to precise your question and you would also be understood quite well.

:w:
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azim
09-07-2006, 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
How come there are no female holy figures in the Abrahamic religions??

Thanks.
I think, as many of the responses have shown - thats perhaps a misconception.

Both Muslims and Christians have an array of women who are highly regarded. Although I'm not familiar of any in Judaism I'm sure there are.
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Trumble
09-07-2006, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
How come there are no female holy figures in the Abrahamic religions??

Historical sexism.
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QuranStudy
09-07-2006, 08:57 PM
Historical sexism.
Not really. My question especially applies to Buddhism.
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sameer
09-07-2006, 09:00 PM
then y not address it specifically to budhism?
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QuranStudy
09-07-2006, 09:01 PM
then y not address it specifically to budhism?
Siddharta Gautama is a male. Some Buddhists consider him a God. There are no significant feminine holy figure in Buddihsm whatsoever. I was proven wrong about the "Abrahamic religions."
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therebbe
09-07-2006, 09:03 PM
Scripture records the stories of seven female prophets in Judaism.
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Muezzin
09-07-2006, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
How come there are no female holy figures in the Abrahamic religions??

Thanks.
Off the top of my head, Mariam/Mary, Joan of Arc, Mother Theresa...

Not sure about Buddhism. However, I do know that Buddhists believe in reincarnation and that the Buddha was present on this Earth in different forms. That is to say, Buddhists believe there were other men at different times who had the spirit or soul of the Buddha.

Of course, I could be completely and utterly wrong.
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QuranStudy
09-07-2006, 09:05 PM
However, I do know that Buddhists believe in reincarnation and that the Buddha was present on this Earth in different forms.
Was he reincarnated in the same place?
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Muezzin
09-07-2006, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
Was he reincarnated in the same place?
Honestly, I don't know. It would be best to ask a Buddhist member about this.
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Trumble
09-07-2006, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
Siddharta Gautama is a male. Some Buddhists consider him a God. There are no significant feminine holy figure in Buddihsm whatsoever. I was proven wrong about the "Abrahamic religions."
It depends how you define "significant feminine holy figure". Mary, the mother of Jesus is a significant icon but cannot be equated to a prophet. Likewise, all those mentioned in connection with Islam are more important historical figures than religious ones. Noah, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed. All men. Mahapajapati is a significant figure in early Buddhism, but cannot be 'ranked' with the most important male figures.

I'm rather baffled as to how the question "How come there are no female holy figures in the Abrahamic religions??" is supposed to refer to Buddhism! Regardless, my original answer stands in relation to that, too. Historical sexism.


On reincarnation the whole point of being a Buddha is that you are NOT reincarnated.. that is the one thing only Buddhas can avoid! That does not mean that there are not many Buddhas and potential Buddhas, all of whom may be considered as aspects of the same universal principle.
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Muezzin
09-07-2006, 09:25 PM
So I was completely and utterly wrong. Oops. Apologies for that.

Thanks for clearing that up, Trumble.
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QuranStudy
09-07-2006, 09:33 PM
Historical sexism.
That is extremely offensive. Your explanation implies that the Abrahaic religions are man made and are fabicrated to encourage male dominance.
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Vishnu
09-07-2006, 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
That is extremely offensive. Your explanation implies that the Abrahaic religions are man made and are fabicrated to encourage male dominance.
And... you have implied that Hindu idols do not represent gods. Is that not extremily offensive to Hindus?
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QuranStudy
09-07-2006, 09:43 PM
And... you have implied that Hindu idols do not represent gods. Is that not extremily offensive to Hindus?
When did I say that? I asked how do Hindus know how their gods looked. If you found that offensive then I'm sorry.
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Vishnu
09-07-2006, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
When did I say that? I asked how do Hindus know how their gods looked. If you found that offensive then I'm sorry.
Not as offensive as ridiculing the cows and making mockery of Hinduism. But then again, why should I care. You know everything, right?
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QuranStudy
09-07-2006, 09:46 PM
Not as offensive as ridiculing the cows and making mockery of Hinduism. But then again, why should I care. You know everything, right?
You still havent answered my question. There are millions of Hindu god/goddesses. How do Hindus know how they look??
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Vishnu
09-07-2006, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
You still havent answered my question. There are millions of Hindu god/goddesses. How do Hindus know how they look??
From scripture, reveation ect.

How do Muslims know what laws to follow?
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QuranStudy
09-07-2006, 09:50 PM
From scripture, reveation ect.
I am sure that the Hindu sciptures do not have description of every deity, but w/e. I'll take it for an answer.

How do Muslims know what laws to follow?
Muslims follow all laws mentioned in the Quran and Hadeeth.
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Trumble
09-07-2006, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
That is extremely offensive. Your explanation implies that the Abrahaic religions are man made and are fabicrated to encourage male dominance.

In all cases the selection of who became significant figures in the development of a religion was a cultural one. Now you have mentioned it I would be less than honest if I didn't admit that I actually believe that "the Abrahaic religions are man made and are fabicrated to encourage male dominance". I do. Nonetheless I don't think that what I said earlier implies that offensively or otherwise, although if it can be interpreted that way I apologise.
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QuranStudy
09-07-2006, 10:15 PM
Nonetheless I don't think that what I said earlier implies that offensively or otherwise, although if it can be interpreted that way I apologise.
Your explanation of "Historical sexism" applies to Buddhism as well (using your reasoning), since the most revered figure is a man.
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Trumble
09-07-2006, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
Your explanation of "Historical sexism" applies to Buddhism as well (using your reasoning), since the most revered figure is a man.
I know it does! I've already said that myself twice.

One figure isn't enough to go on in any instance (four might be?), but the reality of that historical sexism is well accepted in Buddhism. The Buddha himself initially refused to allow female monastics; he changed his mind, but even then the monastic rules for women were different, more severe, and subservient to men.

The difference is that, free from "revelation" regarding the subject that cannot be changed because it is believed to have divine origin, Buddhism is free to adapt with the times with regard to such issues and (in some places, not all) has done so.
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north_malaysian
09-08-2006, 09:50 AM
Rabiatul Adawiyah...
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Keltoi
09-08-2006, 03:47 PM
This is actually an interesting discussion. I tend to agree with Trumble that the reason is "historical sexism." That fact cannot be avoided if one looks at the situation honestly. It is only reasonable that in a male dominated society, the most important religious figures will be male. That doesn't mean God is sexist, that means man is or was sexist. It is a difficult thing to discuss, and I understand why some would be offended by the "historical sexism" explanation, since it tends to call in to question the honesty of some religious norms.
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Zulkiflim
09-08-2006, 04:27 PM
Salaam,

Well in Buddhism there is a goddes of mecry called Kuan Yin..

i dont know if other buddhist sect revere her,also tibetan buddhist also worship a female deity,,cant remember her name..
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azim
09-08-2006, 07:20 PM
Asalaamu alaykum.

This is the funniest thread I've read in a long time.

Your explanation of "Historical sexism" applies to Buddhism as well (using your reasoning), since the most revered figure is a man.
I know it does! I've already said that myself twice.
Great stuff.

It should be a tv show - a Muslim and Buddhist sit in a room and debate for half an hour.
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Trumble
09-09-2006, 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by azim
It should be a tv show - a Muslim and Buddhist sit in a room and debate for half an hour.
:D



Not much comedy, but for anybody interested in muslim/Buddhist debate/discussion I would recommend a particular book, Global Civiliization: A Buddhist - Islamic Dialogue by Daisaku Ikeda and Majid Tehranian, 2003, British Academic Press, ISBN 86064 810X. It's 'academic', but not to the extent that a more casual reader with an interest in the subject won't enjoy it as well.
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chacha_jalebi
09-09-2006, 01:14 PM
salaam

in islam, women have a major status, - 1st ever martyr in islam was a woman - Hadrat Sumayya (ra), the wifes of RasoolAllah (sal allah hu aley hi wasalam), and Hadrat Maryam, Fatima, Asiya (ra) these all have a high status :D:D:D:D

buddhism - they must have a status for woman :D but ya gota research bout them :D
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therebbe
09-11-2006, 03:08 AM
Below the average. Only 6 smilies in this post. Your average smilies per a post is usually about 7.4 chacha. lol.
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Ninth_Scribe
09-11-2006, 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
How come there are no female holy figures in the Abrahamic religions??

Thanks.
No female figures? Did I imagine what I read in all your books? Women have played some pretty intense roles in Abraham's lineage.

Think "quality" not "quantity" and you'll be pretty pleased.

Ninth Scribe
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QuranStudy
09-11-2006, 06:26 PM
Think "quality" not "quantity" and you'll be pretty pleased.
I agree. I learned alot from this thread. Thanks.
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sameer
09-11-2006, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by therebbe
Below the average. Only 6 smilies in this post. Your average smilies per a post is usually about 7.4 chacha. lol.
hmmm...the smiley police :okay:
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therebbe
09-11-2006, 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
hmmm...the smiley police :okay:
More like the smiley secret police. :p
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akulion
09-11-2006, 08:38 PM
Here is a small extract from an article I wrote long time ago:

Women in the Qur'an and Hadith

The Qur'an has much to say both ABOUT women, and TO women. One Surah is called `Women', another is named after Maryam the mother of Jesus (pbuh). Women appear in many other parts. In stories of the prophets we have

Hawwa (Eve) the wife of Adam, no longer the temptress who leads Adam to sin but a partner jointly responsible with him and jointly forgiven by Allah soon afterwards.

There is the wife of Nuh (Noah) (pbuh) who betrays her husband and is held up along with the wife of Lot as an example of a disbeliever (66:10-11).

There is the wife of Abraham, who laughs at the news the angel brings, of the baby she is to have in her old age;

- The wife of Pharaoh, who saves the infant Musa (Moses) (pbuh) and, along with Maryam, mother of Jesus, is one of the two female examples of the good believer held up in Surah 66:10 & 11.

The wife of Aziz, who tried to seduce Yusuf (Joseph), is nevertheless treated with some sympathy, when she shows her friends how handsome he is and they all cut themselves with their knives because they are distracted by his beauty;

and there are more women besides the ones mentioned above.

It is noteworthy that the four women mentioned as examples are presented to both male and female Muslims to show how it is possible to be true believers in difficult circumstances, and disbelievers in favorable circumstances.

The two good examples believed in spite of the attitudes of those close to them, Pharaoh's wife saving Moses from her husband's wicked command to kill all the Hebrew firstborn sons, and Maryam confronting accusations of immorality when she brought home her baby after the virgin birth.

The two bad ones disbelieved in spite of being married to prophets of Allah. In neither case do these examples show the traditional picture of the `submissive' woman.

Read more......
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AvarAllahNoor
09-12-2006, 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
It depends how you define "significant feminine holy figure". Mary, the mother of Jesus is a significant icon but cannot be equated to a prophet. Likewise, all those mentioned in connection with Islam are more important historical figures than religious ones. Noah, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed. All men. Mahapajapati is a significant figure in early Buddhism, but cannot be 'ranked' with the most important male figures.

I'm rather baffled as to how the question "How come there are no female holy figures in the Abrahamic religions??" is supposed to refer to Buddhism! Regardless, my original answer stands in relation to that, too. Historical sexism.


On reincarnation the whole point of being a Buddha is that you are NOT reincarnated.. that is the one thing only Buddhas can avoid! That does not mean that there are not many Buddhas and potential Buddhas, all of whom may be considered as aspects of the same universal principle.
I find Buddhism difficult to fathom. Do they not believe in God?
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