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View Full Version : Crusading Propaganda Inflames Muslim World



sonz
09-20-2006, 07:35 PM
by Firoz Osman

"Western Christians may think the crusades are ancient history, but these medieval wars which Christian crusaders slaughtered Muslims and established crusader states in Palestine are vivid memories for Muslims."

The perception in the Muslim world is that a global anti-Islamic campaign has been launched by Christendom and its media. The fictional and legendary interpretation of Islam, founded on the Byzantine historical traditions, continues to stir fanaticism and hatred against the image of Islam and Prophet Muhammad, on whom be peace.

The furious response of Muslims worldwide to Pope Benedict’s XVI quotation of a 14th Century Christian Emperor reflects the deep anger and suspicion of the Western worlds’ current crusade against Islamic countries.

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached", was interpreted by Muslims, despite his “apology”, as fuelling the current climate of Islamophobia.

Pope Urban II had pronounced a similar statement on 28th November 1095 at the Clermont and had incited Christendom to rise against the world of Islam. Recent history reveals Presidents Clinton and George Bush of the USA, Sharon and Netanyahu of Israel, and Britain’s Prime Minister Tony Blair, declaring Islam to be a real threat to the West.

It was Islam’s victory over Christendom, first during the Crusades which lasted over two centuries, and later by the Ottoman’s conquering Constantinople in 1453, that gave reason to European leaders to denounce the religion of Islam, abuse its Prophet and attribute its spread to the sword.

Indeed, if Islam spread only to countries which its Muslim rulers conquered, then the charge of spread of Islam by the sword cannot entirely be refuted. Indonesia, the largest Muslim country of almost 200 million Muslims, records no conquering Muslim army.

From another perspective, vanquished Muslims lands conquered the military victors culturally, just as the Romans were Hellenized after conquering Greece. The Mongols wreaked havoc in Muslim lands during the 12th and 13th centuries, but were unable to resist the pull of Islam and converted to the religion.

Today, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, despite the invasion and occupation of its lands.

It is in the use of the term Jihad, misleadingly translated in the West as Holy War, that reveal the negative attitudes deeply imbedded in the Western psyche. In quoting Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus stereotypical and the discredited concept of “Holy War”, the Pope was viewed as deliberately tarnishing Muslim history and vilifying Muslim society.

"Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul," the pontiff stated in his own words, suggesting in context that Islam equates with violence. It is this stigmatisation, bias and antagonism from the religious leader of a billion Christians that Muslims find most distressing.

Muslim scholars have explained that the word Jihad is not violence, nor does not mean “Holy War”. It means “struggle” or “striving”. The word for war in the Qur’an is “Harb” or “Qital”. Jihad means serious and sincere struggle on the personal as well as on the social level. It is a struggle to do good and to remove injustice, oppression and evil from the society. This struggle should be spiritual as well as social, economic and political.

Jihad is to protect one’s faith and one’s human rights. Jihad is not a war always although it can take the form of war. Islam is the religion of peace, but it does not mean that Islam accepts oppression. Islam teaches that one should do one’s utmost to eliminate tension and conflict. Islam promotes non-violent means to bring change and reform.

Actually, Islam urges that one should eliminate evil through peaceful means without the use of force as much as possible. In Islamic history from the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) until now, Muslims most of the time resisted oppression and struggled for liberation in non-violent and peaceful manners.

Islam teaches proper ethics in the situation of war. War is permissible in Islam, but only when other peaceful means such as dialogue, negotiations and treaties fail. It is a last resort and should be avoided as much as possible. Its purpose is not to convert people by force, or to colonize people or to acquire land or wealth or for self-glory. Its purpose is basically: defense of life, property, land, honor and freedom for oneself as well as defense of others from injustice and oppression.

Western Christians may think the crusades are ancient history, but these medieval wars which Christian crusaders slaughtered Muslims and established crusader states in Palestine are vivid memories for Muslims. Current Western threats against Islam and invasions of Islamic countries, such as Iraq and Afghanistan are seen as a continuation of the Crusades. The resurgence of the spirit of Jihad in oppressed and occupied Muslim lands demonstrates that Muslims are willing to die in the cause of justice, rather than live in servitude in perpetuity.
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Keltoi
09-20-2006, 11:56 PM
There are just as many misconceptions that Christians have about Islam due to the Crusades as there are misconceptions by Muslims about Christians and the Crusades themselves. The First Crusade didn't happen in a vacuum. Pope Urban II had planned on coming to the aid of the Byzantine Empire a few years before his speech at Clermont. The First Crusade wasn't about war against Islam per se, but about "reclaiming" Christian lands, and most importantly, Jerusalem.
I know it is popular these days by Christians and everyone else to consider the Crusades an evil military operation based on greed, but the truth is very different. Now do I believe the Crusades were a "good" thing?, no, I do not. However, to pretend that Muslims were simply minding their own business and the mean evil Christian Crusade came to town to kill everyone is a blatant falsehood. Even Karen Armstrong, who is quite pro-Islam in her books about the Crusades, acknowledges that the Crusades happend for far more complex reasons than simply a hatred of Islam.
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Woodrow
09-21-2006, 12:33 AM
Don't forget about the forgotten crusades throughout Eastern Europe at the same time. It was during that time when Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Czechoslovakia were conqured and subdued into accepting Christianity. Lithuania would have also, but the Lipkas fought the Christians back for nearly 400 years. Christianity did not get a foot hold in Lithuania until the treaty with Poland. Later under Czarist Russia the Lipkas were forced into excile. The alphabet was changed from the Arabic alphabet to the cyrillic. It is only in recent years the Lipkas have been returning and Islam is returning to Lithuania.
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sonz
09-21-2006, 05:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
There are just as many misconceptions that Christians have about Islam due to the Crusades as there are misconceptions by Muslims about Christians and the Crusades themselves. The First Crusade didn't happen in a vacuum. Pope Urban II had planned on coming to the aid of the Byzantine Empire a few years before his speech at Clermont. The First Crusade wasn't about war against Islam per se, but about "reclaiming" Christian lands, and most importantly, Jerusalem.
I know it is popular these days by Christians and everyone else to consider the Crusades an evil military operation based on greed, but the truth is very different. Now do I believe the Crusades were a "good" thing?, no, I do not. However, to pretend that Muslims were simply minding their own business and the mean evil Christian Crusade came to town to kill everyone is a blatant falsehood. Even Karen Armstrong, who is quite pro-Islam in her books about the Crusades, acknowledges that the Crusades happend for far more complex reasons than simply a hatred of Islam.
ru really sure???

see what she says

"Anti-Islamic doctrine is in-built in the Western ethos that was formulated during the Crusades," she says. "This was the period when the Western world was re-defining itself. The 11th century marked the end of the Dark Ages in Europe and the beginnings of the new Europe. The Crusades were the first co-operative act on the part of the whole new Europe, and the whole crusading ethos shaped the psyche of the key actors performing at this crucial time."

"Islam was the quintessential foreigner, and people resented Islam in Europe much as people in the Third World resent the US today. One could say that Islam then was the greatest world power, and it remained so up until the early years of the Ottoman empire. Muslims were everywhere in the Middle East, Turkey, Iran, South- East Asia, China. Wherever people went, there was Islam, and it was powerful, and people felt it as a threat."

The period of the Crusades was a crucial historical moment during which the West was defining itself, and Islam became a yardstick against which it measured itself. "Islam was everything that the West thought it was not, and it was at the time of the Crusades that the idea that Islam was essentially a violent religion took hold in the West. "Europe was projecting anxiety about its own behaviour onto Islam, and it did the same thing too with the Jewish people," Armstrong said.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/karenarmstrong02.htm

and here

Before the Crusades, Europeans knew very little about Muslims. But after the conquest of Jerusalem, scholars began to cultivate a highly distorted portrait of Islam, and this Islamophobia, entwined with a chronic anti-Semitism, would become one of the received ideas of Europe. Christians must have been aware that their Crusades violated the spirit of the Gospels. Jesus had told his followers to love their enemies, not to exterminate them. This may be the reason why Christian scholars projected their anxiety on to the very people they had damaged.

Thus it was, at a time when Christians were fighting brutal holy wars against Muslims in the Near East, that Islam became known in Europe as an inherently violent and intolerant faith, a religion of the sword.

At a time when feudal Europe was riddled with hierarchy, Islam was presented as an anarchic religion that gave too much respect and freedom to menials, such as slaves and women. Christians could not see Islam as separate from themselves; it had become, as it were, their shadow-self, the opposite of everything that they thought they were or hoped they were not.
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27b/095.html
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north_malaysian
09-21-2006, 06:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Don't forget about the forgotten crusades throughout Eastern Europe at the same time. It was during that time when Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Czechoslovakia were conqured and subdued into accepting Christianity. Lithuania would have also, but the Lipkas fought the Christians back for nearly 400 years. Christianity did not get a foot hold in Lithuania until the treaty with Poland. Later under Czarist Russia the Lipkas were forced into excile. The alphabet was changed from the Arabic alphabet to the cyrillic. It is only in recent years the Lipkas have been returning and Islam is returning to Lithuania.
Also in 1511 - Sultanate Malacca (currently in Malaysia), we would never forget!!! Muslim women survived from Portuguese attack were forced to convert to Catholicism and married to Portuguese army. Their descendant are known as Serani or Portugis in Malaysia. They speak a Portuguese based creole language called 'Kristang'. According to world christian database, out of 6,035 of them in Malaysia, 10% already reverted back to Islam.
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Woodrow
09-21-2006, 07:22 AM
While we often think of the Crusades as being directed aginst Muslims, they were conducted throughout Europe. They are not remembered as Crusades in most of Europe, because they did conquar the people and forced them into Christianity. One of the few countries that were able to hold the crusaders back was Lithuania. Because they were not defeated by the Christians during the Crusades the crusades remain fresh in the memories of the Lipkas.

Source:http://history-world.org/crusades.htm

OTHER CRUSADES

The expeditions to Outremer are thought of as the Crusades. Military-Christian enterprises and expeditions elsewhere are easily branded as misdirected or perverted Crusades, but there is really no significant difference between them. Medieval Christendom perceived itself as having a right or duty to expand, to convert and dominate Muslims and pagans, and to bring dissident Christians back to the fold. When English forces helped take Lisbon from the Moors in 1147, they were carrying out what seemed the true purpose of a Crusade. This was also true for German soldiers under the banner of the Teutonic Knights when they imposed Christianity on the pagans of eastern Germany and the Baltic in the 12th and 13th centuries.

Since the Crusades had become the militant arm of Christian society, it seemed only logical to launch the Albigensian Crusade (see Albigenses). This was a war fought by the French kings and their vassals against heretics in the south of France from around 1210 to 1229. This use of the Crusading banner seems a hypocritical smoke screen, as the French knights took the lands of their enemies, savaged by the people, and became the new feudal lords. But the distinction between what happened in France, in Jerusalem, or in Rîga in the Baltic was one of place and time, not of essence.
As late as the 15th century, this extension of the Crusading ideal to areas outside the Holy Land was a powerful force when directed against a specific opponent. When national feeling and the adoption of religious ideas later associated with the Protestants made Bohemia a threat to European stability, at least in the eyes of the Holy Roman Empire and the pope, a Crusade was declared against Hussites, who were named for John Hus, their first leader. Some decried this as a false Crusade, saying that greed was being sanctified by ecclesiastical banners. But most of Europe endorsed the brutal warfare and the reimposition of Catholicism. This was, in their eyes, a Crusade for Christ’s church and people, as valid as any of the expeditions to the Holy Land.

Source: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/...historyid=ac98

In the early 13th century the Lithuanian tribes, still pagan, are threatened by two groups of crusading Germans. The Order of the Knights of the Sword are forcibly converting the Latvians to the north, while the Teutonic Knights do the same to the Prussians in the south. The tribal chieftains of Lithuania successfully resist invasion but weigh up the possible advantages of adopting the religion of either of their warlike neighbours - the Catholic Germans or the Orthodox Russians.


Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_Tatars

The Lipka Tatars (also known as Belarusian Tatars, Lithuanian Tatars, Lipkowie or Muślimi) are a group of Tatars living on the lands of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth since the 14th century. They followed Sunni branch of Islam and their origins can be traced back to the descendant states of the Mongol Empire of Ghengis Khan - the White Horde, the Golden Horde, the Crimean Khanate and Kazan Khanate. In the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth they initially served as a noble military caste but later they became urban-dwellers known for their crafts, horses and gardening skills. Throughout centuries they resisted assimilation and kept their traditional lifestyle. There are still small groups of Lipka Tatars living in today's Belarus, Lithuania and Poland.
According to some estimates, by 1591 there were about 200,000 Lipka Tatars living in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and about 400 mosques serving them. According to the Risāle-yi Tatar-i Leh (an account of the Lipka Tatars written for Süleyman the Magnificent by an anonymous Polish Muslim during a stay in Istanbul in 1557-8 on his way to Mecca) there were 100 Lipka Tatar settlements with mosques in Poland. The largest communities existed in the cities of Lida and Navahradak. There has been a Lipka Tatar settlement in Minsk, today's capital of Belarus, known as Tatarskaya Slabada. Perhaps a more realistic account of the number of Lipka Tatars is given by Ibrahim Pecewi[1], who cites a statement made by a messenger from the Lipkas to the mufti at Aķkerman, that mentions sixty villages with mosques.
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sonz
09-21-2006, 07:26 AM
salama

1 of the adminz wrote about this too

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...amic%20history

masalama
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north_malaysian
09-21-2006, 07:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
While we often think of the Crusades as being directed aginst Muslims, they were conducted throughout Europe. They are not remembered as Crusades in most of Europe, because they did conquar the people and forced them into Christianity. One of the few countries that were able to hold the crusaders back was Lithuania. Because they were not defeated by the Christians during the Crusades the crusades remain fresh in the memories of the Lipkas.

Source:http://history-world.org/crusades.htm




Source: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/...historyid=ac98





Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_Tatars
How many Lipka Tatars today? And do those 400 mosques survived?:rollseyes
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AvarAllahNoor
09-21-2006, 08:04 AM
Can i just ask why would muslims act in this way (certain not all) Many people insult Jesus, but surely if they went around burning/rioting it would not come across very well, so why?

From what i know of Islam it's very tolerant, even though some views on here are quite extremist

Why not debate openly rather than show yourse;ves to be something your not!.
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Woodrow
09-21-2006, 08:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
How many Lipka Tatars today? And do those 400 mosques survived?:rollseyes
There are only about 2,000 Lipkas in Lithuania today. the population was down to near 0 in 1915 when they were exiled to Siberia. There is still a large Lipkas population in Siberia and they are slowly returning to Lithuania.

Some, including my mother, came to the USA. Oddly My mother's family had strayed from Islam. Myself and my children are the first Muslims in our family in about 400 years.

The only Lithuanian Mosques I now know of are 4 in Vilnius.
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Woodrow
09-21-2006, 08:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Can i just ask why would muslims act in this way (certain not all) Many people insult Jesus, but surely if they went around burning/rioting it would not come across very well, so why?

From what i know of Islam it's very tolerant, even though some views on here are quite extremist

Why not debate openly rather than show yourse;ves to be something your not!.
I'm at a loss. I can not find any reference to any promotion of violence in this thread.
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AvarAllahNoor
09-21-2006, 08:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I'm at a loss. I can not find any reference to any promotion of violence in this thread.
I mean the reaction to what the pope/Reid or anyone says!
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Woodrow
09-21-2006, 09:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I mean the reaction to what the pope/Reid or anyone says!
Okay, I understand.

I believe that the majority of the world's Muslims are acting verbally and not physically. I am certain there will be protests. However, keep in mind peacefull protests are justified. References to the Crusades are offensive to us. They were brutal asaults upon non-Christians and then historically portrayed Muslims as the aggressors.

Very similar to the Jewish Holocaust. It is similar to telling a Jew that in WW2 the Jews attacked and tried to convert Germany to Judaism.

I will agree with you that non-peacefull protests are not justified.

I will also say that the words were most likely made out of ignorance and not so much malice. although I thought the Pope was a bit more intelligent than that.
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KAding
09-21-2006, 09:22 AM
The Crusades digust me. We must be open about our history and accept they were wrong.

Yet, what annoys me somewhat is that Muslims consider their own period of conquest their 'golden age', while they expect Christians to wallow in regret for their own attempts at (re)conquest.
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KAding
09-21-2006, 09:38 AM
Btw, sonz. Could you post a link to that article?

It is forum policy after all, thanks ;).
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Muezzin
09-21-2006, 02:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I mean the reaction to what the pope/Reid or anyone says!
I understand what you mean. It's embarassing when people overreact, violently, to words.

Still, it's not indicative of the vast majority of Muslims. Violence just sells papers. Nobody gives a toss about Muslims protesting peacefully, which I guess is why it isn't reported much...
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sameer
09-21-2006, 08:24 PM
Didnt Bush refer to the war on terrorism as the crusade back in 2001?

On Sunday, Bush warned Americans that "this crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take awhile." He and other US officials have said that renegade Islamic fundamentalist Osama bin Laden is the most likely suspect in the attacks.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html

So is the crusades continuing?
While one can say he is after the terrorists..but the fact is that many Innocent muslims have died. I guess to him that may be an added advantage to hunting the terrorists? :rant:
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Keltoi
09-21-2006, 08:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
Didnt Bush refer to the war on terrorism as the crusade back in 2001?

On Sunday, Bush warned Americans that "this crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take awhile." He and other US officials have said that renegade Islamic fundamentalist Osama bin Laden is the most likely suspect in the attacks.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html

So is the crusades continuing?
While one can say he is after the terrorists..but the fact is that many Innocent muslims have died. I guess to him that may be an added advantage to hunting the terrorists? :rant:
Sort of like Muslims taking offense everytime somone sees the word "jihad" as a word related to violence, the word "crusade" doesn't mean an armed struggle against something in every instance. In the context of Bush's use of the word, it too means "struggle".
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Joe98
09-22-2006, 01:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
While one can say he is after the terrorists..but the fact is that many Innocent muslims have died.
The terrorists are killing the innocent Muslims and the US army is fighting the terrorists.

I am always astonished that the innocent Muslims don’t want the US army to fight the terrorists.
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myskillzgotgame
09-22-2006, 02:46 AM
Salam,
I am currently taking a Current Issues course and in class there has been much discussion about world politics. Yesterday on CNN, the president of Iran referred to Pres. Bush as the "devil". Now of course everybody has his or her own opinions about people. However, as a country leader representing citizens of a country, he should've expressed how he feels in a different way. It is not that I'm taking sides, and yes there is freedom of speech, but just thinking about it- the world leaders don't seem to be acting like adults. How should today's leaders act? Are they thinking about themselves when they are the center of attention? Here we are watching the leaders of the countries rather peacetalking.. separating what could be one peaceful world.
Last week I read in the New York Times that 55% of America's oil comes from America.. and 15% comes from Middle East. So lets go back to the Iraq invasion and the Iran bombings, the ongoing baghdad bombing in which children are still going to school in the middle of a crisis in harms way, and Afghanistan and Lebanon, and the attacks in Syria.... what is the world coming to???
ma'salam..
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north_malaysian
09-22-2006, 03:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
There are only about 2,000 Lipkas in Lithuania today. the population was down to near 0 in 1915 when they were exiled to Siberia. There is still a large Lipkas population in Siberia and they are slowly returning to Lithuania.

Some, including my mother, came to the USA. Oddly My mother's family had strayed from Islam. Myself and my children are the first Muslims in our family in about 400 years.

The only Lithuanian Mosques I now know of are 4 in Vilnius.
I think your ancestors were not astraying from Islam... they just dont have the adequate access to Islam... thus making them no longer practicing Islam... I've heard that lots of Levantine Muslims migrated to Latin America also having the same problems.....

But God blessed you.... maybe you're chosen to revive back Islam among the Lipka Tatars..... That would be one of my specific prayers in this Ramadhan... may Islam return to the Baltic...
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sameer
09-22-2006, 06:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Sort of like Muslims taking offense everytime somone sees the word "jihad" as a word related to violence, the word "crusade" doesn't mean an armed struggle against something in every instance. In the context of Bush's use of the word, it too means "struggle".

so just co-incidence that he used this term just b4 he invaded a muslim country? I think his tounge slipped there and exposed his toughts.
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Keltoi
09-22-2006, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
so just co-incidence that he used this term just b4 he invaded a muslim country? I think his tounge slipped there and exposed his toughts.
and what was that "thought" exactly? That he is fighting a "holy war" to reclaim Christian lands and return the Holy Sepulchre to Christendom? The word "crusade" is used quite a bit in the English language, and it means a mission to accomplish something. I understand that to the Muslim mind the word "crusade" brings up images of 100,000 armored Christian knights slaughtering everything in their path, but in the context of the Iraq War it has no validity other than urban myth and fancy.
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