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sisters of T_M
06-16-2005, 01:50 AM
:sl:

i will be grateful if someone could answer my question.
why can i not reply to Sectarian Articles especially about sufism?

it is completely bias and from a point of view from one person. fair enough ansar ul haq has got is own opinions but i am completely outraged on his opinion on sufism. if he has bad things to say then he can keep it to himself but instead he does not allow others to reply to his post. as Prophet [saw] says "say what is good or keep quiet". and on this case ansar ul haq has not observed this hadith and talking very badly about sufis.

i would like for one the mods or admins to open the thread to us all.
i will be very grateful in doing so.

jazakallah khair brother/sister.

ps. please do kindly answer my question as i am waiting for a reply

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-16-2005, 02:35 AM
:sl: Dear sister TM,
format_quote Originally Posted by sisters of T_M
i will be grateful if someone could answer my question.
why can i not reply to Sectarian Articles especially about sufism?
If you refer to the forum rules, you will notice that we do not have sectarian discussions and debates on this forum. We avoid this because Allah SWT has told us to avoid dividing into sects. However, we still need to clarify the true beliefs of Islam and warn Muslims of deviations, therefore we only post articles, but we do not debate.


Concerning the thread on sufism, I think you might have misunderstood by point on Sufism. Indeed, I discussed this same issue with Sheikh Nazim:

format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
format_quote Originally Posted by Sheikh Nazim
although there are some 'diveant' sufis tareeqahs, from whom people need to stay away from, they have different aqidah and in some cases are out of the fold of islam, some even use a lot of music which is totally against islam and what it stands for these can to known just from their practices and actions,
Okay, then I'm glad we can agree on this.

having said all this, brother it does not mean that there are no real tareeqahs with the right beliefs etc...
As long as you follow the limits of the Qur'an and the Sunnah in seeking purification, you are fine. I don't have a problem with that. But there are many problems in Sufism like those you mentioned, so I am pointing them out so people are aware of them.
And as I mentioned elsewhere:
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
I don't think there's a need to get into a discussion on sufism. As has been mentioned before, it all depends on what you mean by it. if you simply mean righteous worship, then there's no need to worry about labels of "sufi" etc. Let's just worship Allah SWT in the manner the Prophet saws worshipped Him, and then we're fine.
Therefore, the truth is that there are many Muslims who call themselves "sufis" but their practices are perfectly in-line with Islam, so i have nothing against that. If they just wish to focus on purification and righteousness then this is perfectly acceptable. However, as we have all agreed, sufism has come to be associated with much deviation and innovation in the religion. There are certain practices that are against Islamic teachings and we have to warn others about them. That is all the article os doing. It is warning Muslims about the majority of sufis who practice innovations and deviations.

If you consider yourself a sufi but you practice none of the deviations mentioned by the article, then you have nothing to worry about, if your intention is only to purify your heart. But the point here would be, "Why call yourself a sufi?" If all you are doing is practicing righteousness, then there is no need to distinguish yourselves from the other Muslims by calling yourself a Sufi.

I hope this clears up the misunderstanding. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to ask. If you like I will post a clarification in the article on sufism.

:w:
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sisters of T_M
06-16-2005, 02:55 AM
:sl:

brother i agree with what you are saying but i fall under that section because i believe in purification which all sufis do as well as spirituality. i have just said what i believe in [the tareeqah does] and that is Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamah. we just fall under that category because of purification and spirituality.

minority of sufis are in deviant tareeqahs simply because of their difference of aqedah as brother nazim has mentioned.

now i know it is a forum rule not to discuss but i think it is good to discuss with brothers and sisters as it will clear misunderstandings as such.

i understand where you are coming from brother and i hope you do for us aswell that is why i think it is best to share difference of opinion otherwise it will be from only from one point of view which we all know peple have difference of opinion. that is why i suggest others could say there opinion otherwise they will become distressed about the whole situation.

jazakallah khair

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-16-2005, 03:02 AM
brother i agree with what you are saying but i fall under that section because i believe in purification which all sufis do as well as spirituality. i have just said what i believe in [the tareeqah does] and that is Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamah. we just fall under that category because of purification and spirituality.
Why isn't the title Muslim good enough? Does Muslim not mean spiritualism and purification? According to your definition, I would be a sufi. But I don't call myself "sufi" because it seperates me from the rest of the Ummah for no reason. The companions of the Prophet saws never called themselves "sufi", and Br. nazim agreed that this was not a title found amongst the early Muslims.

:w:
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sisters of T_M
06-16-2005, 03:18 AM
:sl:

i agree that it was not founded in the times of Prophet [saw] but i told you how i believe we fit in that section ad why we are called sufis.

brother please do not make me repeat what i have said as i have answered your question previoulsy.

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-16-2005, 03:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sisters of T_M
:sl:

i agree that it was not founded in the times of Prophet [saw] but i told you how i believe we fit in that section ad why we are called sufis.

brother please do not make me repeat what i have said as i have answered your question previoulsy.

:w:
:sl: You said you are a "sufi" because of "purification" and "spirituality". But my question is, Is this not a trait of all Muslims? Why do you attribute yourself to sufism whent he most advanced Muslims in "spirituality" and "purification" did not? What benefit is there in calling yourself a sufi? Isn't there loss becuase you cally ourself by the same title that many deviants call themselves by?

:w:
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sisters of T_M
06-16-2005, 03:35 AM
:sl:

i am going to be repeating myself over and over again.

so enough about me i want to know about you brother and your beliefs because i do not know as i don't go on the forums much. so tell me your beliefs and opinions brother in general?

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-16-2005, 03:38 AM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by sisters of T_M
:sl:

i am going to be repeating myself over and over again.

so enough about me i want to know about you brother and your beliefs because i do not know as i don't go on the forums much. so tell me your beliefs and opinions brother in general?
Briefly:

I believe in following Islam as it was revealed by Allah in the Qur'an,
explained by the Prophet saws in the sunnah,
and understood by the early generations of Muslims, including the Prophet's companions.

Its very simple and easy. :)

:w:
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sisters of T_M
06-16-2005, 03:42 AM
:sl:

that is what we all believe if i am correct?

but there must be a difference somewhere because you always disagree with what us as a tareeqah say. so if you could be a bit detailed in your aqeedah please

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-16-2005, 03:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sisters of T_M
:sl:

that is what we all believe if i am correct?

but there must be a difference somewhere because you always disagree with what us as a tareeqah say. so if you could be a bit detailed in your aqeedah please
Based on what I have said, I also believe that we should worship Allah in the way that the Prophet saws worshipped Him. We should not invent new ways to worship him, because that is bidah, or innovation. The Sunnah of the Prophet saws is the best, as Allah swt says:
33:21 Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

Therefore, when someone invites me to practice a new type of "zikr" yet it was not found in the Qur'an or the Sunnah of the Prophet saws, or the early generations of Muslims, I politely say, "no thank you" :) and I carry on practicing Islam in the way i mentioned in my last post.

:w:
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sisters of T_M
06-16-2005, 03:51 AM
:sl:

so what are you saying brother that you do not perform zikr and disagree with the remembrance of Allah [swt]?

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-16-2005, 03:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sisters of T_M
:sl:

so what are you saying brother that you do not perform zikr and disagree with the remembrance of Allah [swt]?

:w:
No, of course not! I would be a fool to say that because Allah swt says:

43:36 If anyone withdraws himself from Dhikr of ((Allah)) Most Gracious, We appoint for him an evil one, to be an intimate companion to him.

I'm just saying that I will do Dhikr in the way the Prophet saws used to do it. I'm not going to chain myself to a wall for hours and wave my head around while chanting the same thing over and over again. That's not the way the Prophet saws used to perform Dhikr.

I will perform Dhikr through Salat, Dua to Allah, contemplation on the signs of Allah, reciting Qur'an, and making Tasbeeh of Allah in my daily life. :)

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-16-2005, 04:00 AM
:sl:
Also, Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
No doubt adhkaar and du’aa’s are among the best forms of worship, and worship is one of the matters in which there is no room for personal opinions – we have to follow what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did and taught, not our own whims and desires or innovations. The du’aa’s and adhkaar of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) are the best that anyone could find. The one who follows this way will be safe and sound, and the benefits and positive results that he will gain are beyond description. Any other du’aa’s and adhkaar may be haraam or they may be makrooh; they may involve shirk even though most people do not realize that – the details of this would take too long to explain here.

No one has the right to teach the people any kinds of du’aa’s or adhkaar apart from those that are mentioned in the Sunnah, or to make it a kind of regular worship which he expects the people to do regularly as they do the five daily prayers – this is the innovation in religion which Allaah does not allow… As for adopting a wierd or regularly reciting a dhikr that is not prescribed in sharee’ah, this is one of the things that is not allowed. The du’aa’s and adhkaar prescribed by sharee’ah are the best that anyone could ever hope to find, and no one ignores them in favour of newly-invented, innovated adhkaar except one who is ignorant, negligent or a wrongdoer.” (Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 22/510-511).

And Allaah knows best
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sisters of T_M
06-16-2005, 04:01 AM
:sl:

if you do not mind i will ask of you another question.

do you follow a shiekh?

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-16-2005, 04:06 AM
:sl:
I have learnt from many Shuyukh, by reading several books, and through personal discussions. I don't believe I have to follow a single person and blindly accept everythign he says to be true, because human beings aren't perfect and we all make mistakes. The important thing is to follow the Qur'an and Sunnah.

And I agree with you that it can sometimes be hard for a Muslim to analyze the Qur'an and Sunnah all by themselves, and there is nothign wrong with having a teacher to learn Islam from. But we don't have to pick a specific individual, we can learn from many teachers.

Also, you can see that all of the Islamic scholars themselves told us not to follow them blindly, but to follow the Qur'an and Sunnah:
http://www.islamicboard.com/showthread.php?t=2791

:w:
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sisters of T_M
06-16-2005, 04:07 AM
:sl:

i told you how we fall in that category of sufism but we known as Ahl-us-Sunnah wal-Jamaa'ah. this is what we strictly believe. do not call us sufis as other people do if it makes you happy i just wanted to you to understand what we believe and follow.

i think you are clear.

may Allah [swt] guide us to seek His pleasure at all times.

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-16-2005, 04:07 AM
Perhaps I should also ask, what is your definition of a "sheikh"? What does that mean to you?
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sisters of T_M
06-16-2005, 04:11 AM
:sl:

i agree with you brother i am not saying come to my teacher but for your benefit at least have a teacher who can guide you and ask questions and refer your problems to. i just want everyone to benefit on what i have benefitted. i only purely say it to help you brother and others in this forum otherwise i want be up all this night discussing this with you.

i pray Allah [swt] guides us all.

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-16-2005, 04:18 AM
:sl:

Then there is no disagreement between us on this.

42:15...Allah is our Lord and your Lord: for us (is the responsibility for) our deeds, and for you for your deeds. There is no dispute between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and to Him is (our) Final Goal.
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sisters of T_M
06-16-2005, 04:27 AM
:sl:

no disagreement then i will not expect this situation to arise again and finally i can go sleep.

:w:
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