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Political_Islam
09-28-2006, 07:42 PM
If the theory of unintended consequences could be applied to states, the situation in Somalia offers a perfect illustration.


The Islamists who are now in control of Mogadishu got where they are because of a series of miscalculations, blunders and omissions by their rivals.


First came the US, which tried to forge together a band of the same old warlords in an effort to block the advance of the Islamic Courts Union (ICU). America's overriding fear was that under the Islamists, anarchic Somalia would rapidly descend into a Taliban-like cesspit.


The scheme backfired. As the US is fast discovering, anything linked to America becomes an object of hatred in the Muslim world. The warlords, who were never popular, were being opportunistic: Their new-found "anti-terrorism" alliance with the US was obviously with an eye at American largesse. Still, their association, however peripheral, with the US in a Muslim country was the kiss of death.


Religious radicalism


The ICU, who took control in June, had other things going for them. Somalis have never had a tradition of religious radicalism. What the Islamists promised first and foremost was security, which Mogadishu residents have long been desperate for. Unlike the capricious warlords, the ICU had also become noted for their straightforward if rough meting out of justice in the lawless environs of Somalia they controlled.


They signified order, however imperfect. It is more or less the same phenomenon at work in Palestine, one which caught America off-guard, when Hamas won elections against the American-sanctioned, and ineffectual Palestinian Authority.


The Somali impasse has gone to highlight not just the contemporary problem the rise of Islamist movements poses for secular forces, but it amply demonstrates how the Islamists are capitalising on the weaknesses of secularists in Muslim countries to further the Islamist agenda.


The problem in Zanzibar – which is in political union with the mainland to form Tanzania – could be manifesting itself mainly as a compulsive assertion for self-determination. Elections last year ended on a controversial note with the opposition Civic United Front making a credible case that there was intimidation, if not manipulation, by the Chama Cha Mapinduzi, which controls both the Zanzibari and union governments. The isles President, Amani Abeid Karume, had to be sworn in under heavy guard, as supporters of his opponent, Hamad, run riot while many were arrested.


Still, like other predominantly Muslim societies, the Zanzibari situation has none-too-subtly been fired up by elements of religious particularism, not to mention race. Though the mainland has a large Muslim population of its own, it is Zanzibar with its deep-rooted Islamic culture through its historic links with the Arabian peninsula that has absorbed many of the Islamist undercurrents boiling up in the wider Islamic world, and it is no accident that key CUF activists are of a decidedly Islamist bent.


One interesting feature of Islamist movements in Africa and elsewhere is how adept they have become at playing the "democratic" card.


The irony for the West is that its championing of "democratisation" in the Muslim world has brought to the fore the same Islamist forces it most dislikes, like Hamas. In the beginning, it was easy for the West to look the other way – even to encourage – incumbent governments to stymie any democratic push for power by the Islamists. That was the case in 1991, when the Algerian military intervened in what was a virtual coup d'etat after the radical Islamic group, the FIS, swept parliamentary elections.


The paradox for the West is that you can no longer push to "democratise" Muslim regimes, on one hand, and then encourage the repression of one segment of its society.


One of the African countries where Western-style pluralism has led straight to an Islamic-sympathetic regime is Comoros. Last May, Muslim cleric Ahmed Abdallah Sambi, 49, won a commanding plurality of 58 per cent of the popular vote. His two secular rivals, long-serving politician Ibrahim Halidi and former French air force officer Mohammed Djafaari, trailed with 28 per cent and 13 per cent respectively.



Source: The Daily Nation

EDIT:: Clickable Source------http://www.halgan.net/view_article.php?articleid=3561
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Keltoi
09-28-2006, 08:13 PM
Of course, the fact that a county has a democratically elected government doesn't mean you have to support them or have relations with them. Democracy makes it more likely that two countries will have better relations, but that isn't always the case. The election of Hamas is a perfect example. The Palestinian people made their decision and now they have to live with that. That doesn't mean the U.S. has to support what it considers a terrorist group because of democratic elections. The people who elect an Islamist government make their own decisions, and hopefully(for them) they will consider it the right one ten years down the road.
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AHMED_GUREY
09-29-2006, 02:14 AM
''Somalia's Islamists Resume Their Momentum and Embark on a Diplomatic Path''
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kadafi
10-01-2006, 12:10 AM
:sl:

Alhamdullilaah, the council has achieved a major change in such short span of time and let's hope, insha'Allaah, that they resume their momentum with the backing of the Somali people.

With that being said, the pre-emptive attack on Kismayoo was premature and completely unnecessary given the time. Reason being is that Colonel Hiiraale and the ICU were on good grounds and basically shared the same goal[s], which is to unify the country. Hiiraale opposed the intervention and deployment of the Ethiopian troops and lastly the city was relatively calm and peaceful. Unfortunately, this pre-emptive action has caused several consequences.

It has forced Hiiraale to regroup and prepare an attempt to recapture the city. Somalis who previously supported the ICU are having doubts whether their agenda was merely a sham to further a certain tribalistic ideology. It has stirred tribal animosity and violent demonstrations. It has increased the chance of foreign intervention whilst the Union's existence is unstable and fragile.

Insha'Allaah, I hope the wadaado put some more wisdom in their decision-making in order to avoid these grave consequences that affect the lives of many Somalis.

May Allaah (Exalted is He) aid them, strengthen them and give them victory, for surely Allaah is sufficient for the mujahideen.

:w:

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AHMED_GUREY
10-01-2006, 03:14 AM
Asharq Al-Awsat: I understand you are in the process of restructuring the Islamic Courts?

Aweys: Who told you this? We are still preparing for this organizational process because we believe it would be wrong for the Islamic Courts' structure to continue to be based on tribal considerations.


this is very important


Somalia’s powerful Islamic Courts is due to take control of the disputed lower Shabelle region in southern Somalia on Saturday in public ceremony. This ends the doubts over the dishonest of the Islamic Courts towards the region.

this was one of the reasons why some didn't want to support ICU

now they don't have a reason since it's now part of their administration and the elders of that region are in control

Forces loyal to Islamic Courts have captured villages of Kalaber and Jawil in Hiran region north of Somalia and bordering with Ethiopia on Saturday - reports say. It is part of the Islamists’ expansion policy to entire Somalia.

This affirms that Islamic Courts now fully control the whole Hiran region in central Somalia.

The Islamists said they are determined to close Somalia's borders with Ethiopia and Kenya for the fear of IGADSOM peacekeeping troops might have access to enter Somalia. Hiran is a strategic province, which lies along the border that Somalia has with Ethiopia.


they took over kismayu because african troops were to land on that port and hiiraale was a confusing character evendo he oppossed foreign troops

the ICU probably didn't want to take the risk of being backstabbed at the last moment

but ICU and the elders of Kismayu are in talks and the city has calmed down

they closed the border with Kenya and now they going to close the border with Ethiopia
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Islamicboy
10-01-2006, 03:22 AM
The rise of Islamists<< Whats that suppose to mean why are they being refered as islamist is that even a word?
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wilberhum
10-02-2006, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Islamicboy
The rise of Islamists<< Whats that suppose to mean why are they being refered as islamist is that even a word?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist
Islamism is a set of political ideologies that hold that Islam is not only a religion, but also a political system that governs the legal, economic and social imperatives of the state according to its interpretation of Islamic Law. For Islamists, the Sharia has absolute priority over democracy and universal human rights: "The Islamic Shari'ah is the only source of reference for the explanation or clarification of any of the articles of this (Cairo] Declaration (on Human Rights in Islam)."
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Islamicboy
10-02-2006, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist
Islamism is a set of political ideologies that hold that Islam is not only a religion, but also a political system that governs the legal, economic and social imperatives of the state according to its interpretation of Islamic Law. For Islamists, the Sharia has absolute priority over democracy and universal human rights: "The Islamic Shari'ah is the only source of reference for the explanation or clarification of any of the articles of this (Cairo] Declaration (on Human Rights in Islam)."
If thats what a islamist means then why are they represented in the media as bad people. By the definition all muslims are "Islamist" because all muslims believe Shariah is the only system.
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wilberhum
10-02-2006, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Islamicboy
If thats what a islamist means then why are they represented in the media as bad people. By the definition all muslims are "Islamist" because all muslims believe Shariah is the only system.
Are we to assume all Muslims/Islamists are good?
Not all values are universal. Most Westerners value seperation of church and state.
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Islamicboy
10-02-2006, 11:29 PM
By what you have defined a islamist to be yest then they are good people all of them! Shariah was good back in the time of prophet muhammed S.A.W and it still is good and it will be good until end of time. How can you compare Gods law to man made law?
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Umm Sulaym
10-03-2006, 12:36 AM
Not all Muslims can be called islamist as many of them don't really know what shari'ah is they don't aim to know or aim to establish shari'ah. Do we have shari'ah at the present time?

May Allah (swa) give victory to the Mujahideen, Ameen.
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Curaezipirid
10-03-2006, 01:02 AM
Insha Allah Mujahideen will ever win because the fight can only be in Allah and for Allah when real Mujahideen are involved. (I believe it is well overdue time for any Muslim to stop letting persons in 'the west' imagine that the CIA's preferred and sponsored folk are the real Mujahideen. The fact is that the CIA actually know whom many real Mujahideen are and fund falisfications of the reputations of Mujahideen as a way of portraying that war is profitable, thereby causing their own disputes with Islam"ism".)

It seems that Islamism as opposed to Islam is only so named because there are non-believers whom can not factually align their minds with the need in Religion to comprehend what politics is.

But if there is any "ism" or "ist" that we become identifyable with best that it be that of the Islamicists.

Islam is already a system of social Governance that enables Relgious worship, and always has been that. So I guess an Islamicist is any person whom actively and openly promotes the aspect of Islam that is good social governance.

It is emminently instructive that the processes by which Islamicists come to power are always attuned with the pre-existing processes by which any Governing family or ideology or practise is customarily introduced. In any western democracy Isllamicism will stand for election and be voted for; in a country with a history of the population being controlled by war lords then Islamicism will manifest as warlord like. In China there might eventually be an Islamicist peasant uprising to overthrow the ruling pre-existant cult of personality of an earlier peasant uprising; so an Islamicist style dynasty might form. China has many thousands of years history of peasant uprisings overthrowing a dynasty the becomes so corrupt that they are no longer adept in Government, but were established by an earlier peasant uprising: when in reality the governers are the beaurocrats and relatives of a tiny ruling elite whom are adored by the population. Who will the Islamicists be in that situation: it is the difficulty of the Gog and Magog story.

wasalam
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kadafi
10-03-2006, 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
they took over kismayu because african troops were to land on that port and hiiraale was a confusing character evendo he oppossed foreign troops the ICU probably didn't want to take the risk of being backstabbed at the last moment
:sl:

Walaal, surely you know that the ICU has the utmost respect for Barre Aaden Shire. Here is an interview with Shaykh Mukhtaar Roobow Abu Mansuur who expressed the stance of the Maxkamada Islaamka towards Hiiraale (start at the 6th minute):

http://www.somaliweyn.org/Audio/ware...buuMansuur.ram

The Shaykh called him a man of great respect and character and that the courts had great gratitude for him since he did not wrong the wadaado during the emergence of al-Itihaad al-Islaamiya by not condemning them nor did he bow down to the request of handing over several wadaado for a large sum. So to say that he is a confusing character is unjustified and has never been the position of the ICU to describe him like that. Hiiraale, even after leaving Kismayoo, has rejected the requests of the Ethiopian troops to assist him in recapturing Kismayoo which demonstrates and reaffirms his attitude that he would never allow foreign troops in Somalia. That's why some of the Wadaado in Xamar are puzzled why he still has a neutral position towards the TFG and did not join the ICU.

Ultimately, I believe that Hiiraale would have joined them in the end which would make him great asset in unifying the country if it wasn't for the Kismayoo takeover.

but ICU and the elders of Kismayu are in talks and the city has calmed down

they closed the border with Kenya and now they going to close the border with Ethiopia
Yes, alhamdulillaah and they have enforced the Sharee'ah and banned the khat during Ramadhan (and hopefully altogether in the future, insha'Allaah) but if the Wadaado hadn't rushed this and planned it carefully and taking in consideration the status-quo, they would have gained the support of Hiiraale, the complete support of the skeptics and there would have been small to no protests.

Once again, the descision to capture Kismayoo was premature and the most severe consequence of this premature takeover is the upcoming battle between Somalis that will inevitable cause great number of casualties.

:w:
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AHMED_GUREY
10-03-2006, 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by kadafi
:sl:

Walaal, surely you know that the ICU has the utmost respect for Barre Aaden Shire. Here is an interview with Shaykh Mukhtaar Roobow Abu Mansuur who expressed the stance of the Maxkamada Islaamka towards Hiiraale (start at the 6th minute):

http://www.somaliweyn.org/Audio/ware...buuMansuur.ram

The Shaykh called him a man of great respect and character and that the courts had great gratitude for him since he did not wrong the wadaado during the emergence of al-Itihaad al-Islaamiya by not condemning them nor did he bow down to the request of handing over several wadaado for a large sum. So to say that he is a confusing character is unjustified and has never been the position of the ICU to describe him like that. Hiiraale, even after leaving Kismayoo, has rejected the requests of the Ethiopian troops to assist him in recapturing Kismayoo which demonstrates and reaffirms his attitude that he would never allow foreign troops in Somalia. That's why some of the Wadaado in Xamar are puzzled why he still has a neutral position towards the TFG and did not join the ICU.

Ultimately, I believe that Hiiraale would have joined them in the end which would make him great asset in unifying the country if it wasn't for the Kismayoo takeover.


Yes, alhamdulillaah and they have enforced the Sharee'ah and banned the khat during Ramadhan (and hopefully altogether in the future, insha'Allaah) but if the Wadaado hadn't rushed this and planned it carefully and taking in consideration the status-quo, they would have gained the support of Hiiraale, the complete support of the skeptics and there would have been small to no protests.

Once again, the descision to capture Kismayoo was premature and the most severe consequence of this premature takeover is the upcoming battle between Somalis that will inevitable cause great number of casualties.

:w:
salaam walaal i apologize i'm not really familiar with Hiiraale and the wadaads past

you info was very beneficial

somalia's political landscape is like a spiderweb and i'm lost somewhere in the 21434th thread of the web ;D

but one positive thing has come out of this takeover

Kenya is allready reconsidering it's backing to the somali government and alliance with Ethiopia because the ICU is expanding superfast and they want good relations with them

http://www.nationmedia.com/eastafric...n021020067.htm
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Bittersteel
10-04-2006, 06:23 PM
ICU is helping to fight pirates ,okay?
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