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Andaraawus
10-08-2006, 11:11 PM
:sl:

Note: i have been working hard on a book to refute the false notion that Allah was the name of a pre Islamic deity, particularly the moon god. Dr. Robert Morey is one of the few propergaters of this idea. There has been scholars who have successfully refuted Dr Robert Morey on a couple of issues and i have heavily leaned on their works for some parts of this booklet, and in no way am I going to say my research and my work is better than theres. However with the whole of this booklet, i feel i can touch this topic from an angle that has been untouched. I am going to paste up peice by peice and watch for relpies and reactions and also suggestions how i can make this booklet better. I have quoted anti-Islamic material but yet refuted it. I ask the Admins not to spoil my document by taking out the quotations. I am happy to say now that the booklet is complete, however i am going to change it here and there before it gets printed.

PART ONE
NO OBJECTIONS!

From the outset of his booklet, Dr Robert Morey states:

“The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted.
- Dr Robert Morey,The Moon-god In The Archaeology of The Middle East, pg.1

Dr Robert Morey suggests that Muslims are attempting to win over the Jews and the Christians by proclaiming that Allah is also the God they worship. Further on in his booklet he says:

“Muhammad attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the Moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians, he said that Allah was their God too. But both the Jews and the Christians knew better and that is why they rejected his god Allah as a false god”.
- Dr Robert Morey, The Moon-god In The Archaeology of The Middle East, pg.13


.....The question is here did the Jews and the Christians in ‘Arabia before and after the advent of Muhammad’s prophet hood reject Allah as a pagan deity? We find the truth to be opposite of Dr. Robert Morey’s claim. Jews and the Christians of Arabia have never objected to calling their deity Allah before and after the declaration of Muhammad’s صلي اللّه عليه وسلم Prophet-hood.

NO OBJECTIONS FROM THE JEWS


.....Every dispute with the people of the book has been recorded in the Qur’an and the Ahadith (plural of Hadith). If we look to the Qur’an 3:183 we will find that the Jews argued with Muhammad by claiming “Allah took our promise not to believe in a Messenger unless he showed us a sacrifice consumed by fire”. On another occasion the Jews was asked by Prophet Muhammad صلي اللّه عليه وسلم what would they think if their main priest converted to Islam and upon hearing that they replied “May Allah protect him from that." (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, No. 275.) Their argument was not the name of G-d, but, the prophet hood of Muhammad صلي اللّه عليه وسلم.

.....Another example is the changing of the direction of the Qiblah: The Muslims faced towards Jerusalem for their daily prayers until Allah sent down a revelation commanding them to face the direction of the Kabah in Makkah. Ibn Ihsaq reports that the change of direction happened one year and six months after the holy Prophet and the Muslims had emigrated to Madinah. ( Sirat ul Rasoolullah, pg. 289.) This indicates that for so many years the Muslims prayed towards Jerusalem whilst they were in Makkah. Facing the direction of Jerusalem pleased The Jews and gave them hope that they could convert Muhammad صلي اللّه عليه وسلم to Judaism. (Muhammad. The Beloved of Allah, Dar-us-Salam Publications, pg. 124. ) However they lost all hope when Muhammad told them “All nations are equal before Allah and Allah chooses whom He wishes for Prophet-hood and the distinction is not for Jews alone”. (Ibid. pg. 125.) Allah later revealed the command for the Muslims to change their direction to Makkah. (Qur’an, Surah Baqarah 2:144). The Jews objected to this strongly and Allah revealed the verse ‘The fools among the people say “What has made them turn away from the direction they used to face”. (Ibid, verse 2:141). If Allah was the name of a pagan deity then the Jews would be breaking their tradition which states that one should not utter any name of any false god. (Bible, Exodus 23:13).

NO OBJECTIONS FROM THE CHRISTIANS


.....The Christians also raised many objections against Islam but we find it was never once about the name Allah. It is reported that the Christians of Najran was listening to Mughirah Ibn Shubah رضي الله عنه reciting the verses of the Qur’an that relate to Mary and the birth of Jesus عليهالسلام . After hearing the recitation of the Qur’an they objected to Mary being referred to as 'O sister of Aaron' accusing Muhammad صلي اللّه عليه وسلم of Anachronism. (Sahih Muslim, Hadith No. 1003). They never objected to the following verses which quote baby Jesus عليهالسلام as saying ‘Indeed I am a servant of Allah.’ (‘Abdullah) (Qur’an Surah Maryam 19:30). The Christian king Negus had these very same verses recited to him and he made no objections in regards to the name Allah. (Ibn Ihsaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah – The Life of Muhammad. translated by Alfred Guillaume, pgs 150-152). There were also the sixty Christian riders from Najran which came to dialogue with Prophet Muhammad صلي اللّه عليه وسلم , (Ibid. pgs 270-277) They had many disagreements with Muhammad صلي اللّه عليه وسلم but Allah being the true name for G-d was not one of them. In fact we find the Christians arguing that Jesus was Allah. (Quran Surah Ma’idah 5:72) Further more one of the Christians had the name ‘Abdullah i.e. servant of Allah. (Ibn Ihsaq’s – The Life of Muhammad. translated by Alfred Guillaume, pg. 271, verse 403.) And he may have been born well before Muhammad’s صلي اللّه عليه وسلم declaration to Prophet-hood.

NO OBJECTIONS FROM THE PAGANS


.....The pagans would have indeed been some of the first to object to the idea that Allah was the same G-d that the Jews and the Christians worshipped. They would have argued that Muhammad صلي اللّه عليه وسلم was trying to pull the wool over their eyes and would have encouraged the idea Muhammad صلي اللّه عليه وسلم was an imposter based on this argument. However this argument is conspicuously absent in the texts of the Qur’an and the Ahadith. Overall these few examples demonstrate that even though the Jews, Christians and the pagans made objections they shared a common belief in Allah.

....

Please epress your thoughts and point out mistakes and lend suggestions .. wasalams
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Andaraawus
10-08-2006, 11:29 PM
Insha'Allah i will post up a little more of part one when i have sorted it out ,
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Andaraawus
10-09-2006, 12:25 AM
in fact i am going to skip part one and give part two
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Andaraawus
10-09-2006, 01:17 AM
part TWO
THE EARLY
CHRISTIAN-MUSLIM DEBATES



.....In a recent dialogue Dr Robert Morey accused me of making a factual error when I posed the question ‘why has no objection been made by the Jews and the Christians of Arabia in regards to the name of Allah? He replied by saying ‘You have committed a factual error in that you do not know the early debates between Christians and Muslims where the name "Allah" was rejected as pagan. I expect that Dr Robert Morey was referring to the Apology of Al-Kindy which has been translated and commented upon by Sir William Muir and also by Dr Newman. He referred to this text in his booklet where he said ‘Al-Kindi, one of the early Christian apologists against Islam, pointed out that Islam and its god Allah did not come from the Bible but from the paganism of the Sabeans. Sir William Muir comments on the words of Al-Kindi by saying:

‘His friend (Al-Hishamy) had invited him to embrace the Hanyfite, faith of Abraham, their common father. Our Apologist answers that the Hanyfite faith was in reality the idolatrous religion of the Sabeans, which the patriarch professed before his conversion to the worship of the one true God.

We see from Sir William Muir’s commentary that Al-Kindy alleges that the Hanifite faith of Islam i.e. the Abrahamic faith, stems from the paganism of the Sabeans, then he further alleges that Abraham was of this idolatrous religion until he turned in his worship to the one true God, the Qur’an states that Abraham was never one of the idolaters. It is very interesting to note that Sir William Muir writes the following in his footnote to this point:

‘But the only argument in this passage as to the propriety of circulating or translating which I have doubts is that in which he asserts the Hanyfite religion of Abraham to have been, not the Catholic faith of the Unity (as is clearly intended in the Coran) , but Sabean idolatry. To support this view, our Author twists texts of the Coran…Mahometan readers will with reason object to such misrepresentation of their Scripture.

Please take special care in noticing how Sir William Muir freely admits that he, himself, doubts what al-Kindi has asserted, due to Al-Kindi’s misrepresentation of the Qur’an to support his view that Allah stems from paganism. Therefore the integrity of Al-Kindi is questioned, not by the Muslim but by a Christian Missionary.

Bottom line, Al-Kindi only asserted that Allah was a pagan God, without any hard solid evidence to back up his theory. Thus on the weakness of it, Dr Robert Morey’s referral to the early Christian and Muslim debates in hope to brandish any evidence has failed dismally.

Furthermore, Dr Robert Morey further claims that Dr. Newman concludes his study of the early Christian-Muslim debates by stating:

"Islam proved itself to be...a separate and antagonistic religion which had sprung up from idolatry."

However Dr Newman actually wrote:

“The first three centuries of the Christian-Muslim dialogue to a great degree molded the form of the relationship which was to prevail between the two faiths afterward. During this period, Islam proved itself to be less a wayward sect of the "Hagarenes," from a Christian perspective, and more a separate and antagonistic religion which had sprung up from idolatry.

Dr Robert Morey conveniently left out that the idea of Islam originating from paganism is from a Christian perspective i.e. this is a point of view, and does not serve as evidence. Unfortunately, Dr Robert Morey has followed Al-Kindi in his baseless assumptions and misinterpretation of what the text actually says.

1. Moon god page 13
2. The Apology of Al-Kindy, 2nd Edition, page 41.
3. The sentence in brackets also belongs to Sir William Muir.
4. Ibid page 43
5. Moon god page 13.
6. N. A. Newman (Ed.), The Early Christian-Muslim Dialogue: A Collection Of Documents From The First Three Islamic Centuries (632 - 900 A.D.) Translations With Commentary, 1993, Interdisciplinary Biblical Research Institute: Hatfield (PA), p. 719.
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Andaraawus
10-09-2006, 01:19 AM
I will give peopletime to digest this and i will post after comments are made. btw .... this whole thread is copyrighted. by me at the time & date of this post...hhheheh
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Skillganon
10-09-2006, 04:25 AM
Assalamu alaikum bro jazak Allah Khair.

I have read some refutation (articles) before, but I will like to see where this goes.
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Andaraawus
10-09-2006, 03:28 PM
Call it attention seeking but i want this post to be noticed, so i can catch feedback
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chacha_jalebi
10-09-2006, 03:29 PM
Allah (swt) aint the moon god :p

hes the god of the moon and everythin :D:D:D brap brap u no dat was heavy :p
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Skillganon
10-09-2006, 05:58 PM
Are you Just trying to focuse on his quote.
Anyway, So far it is fairly good.
You might wan't to expand your introduction, get rid of thos massive Sub Headings. However I am expecting more.
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Andaraawus
10-09-2006, 06:02 PM
Yeh youre right bro i need a proper intro to introduce a summary of his arguemnt , what do u suggest?
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Skillganon
10-09-2006, 11:40 PM
Although I am not sure if what is under the heading "PART ONE
NO OBJECTIONS!"
You seem to rush into it. Maybe it is better to give them a light feel around it, introduce Islam, (maybe what Allah means according to Islam,), your aim, the importance of this study, the crux of Roberts Morey argument, and how you going to approach it i.e. Methodology. e.g. You going to look at some of those archoelogical sources. In your case you are looking at early sources, or records.

Maybe you wan't to change the Headings "No Objection from Jews", "No Objection from Christians" e.t.c and use another Headings.

Anyway so far it is good. Writing Articles takes time. I will give in more thoughts on the issue, that is if I do come up with any.
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Andaraawus
10-10-2006, 04:40 AM
Thnax for your comments, i am going to work on an approach as you suggested and break into it slowly. Your advice has helped greatly. JazakUllah.

I may need some help on the pagans part... did the pagans ever accuse Muhammad saws for stealing from the Jews and the Christians?
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Andaraawus
10-10-2006, 11:26 AM
Sample of yet to come, to get people intrested insha'Allah:

The Jews and the Christians believe that the personal name for God Almighty is “Yahweh”. Throughout religious scriptures He is known asYaw, Yah, Yahu, El, Elohim or Ehyeh asher Ehyeh. God is known as “Allah” to the Muslims. Dr Robert Morey argues that “Allah” is a pagan deity, particularly the moon god which was worshipped in ancient Mesopotamia. However Dr Robert Morey does not want his readers to know that exactly the same argument has also been used against the God of the Bible, “Yahweh”. Scholars have suggested that Yahweh was “in fact a pagan deity”. Mark Smith opines that Yahweh is a polytheistic deity at the head of the Israelite pantheon. Even though the Ten Commandments command that there should be no other gods, other biblical texts lend a suggestion that the Israelites knew about other gods and did not reject them as being false deities. They simply stated "there is no god like You, O Lord?" placing Yahweh at the top of their polytheistic pantheon of pagan deities. Walter Reinhold, echoes that Yahweh evolved from earlier gods and goddesses, taking on their feats, epithets, titles, and glories and persona. However the Israelites transformed the pagan deity to the supreme God of monotheism. Professor Cohn also confirms this point, claiming that the Canaanite gods had merged into one deity being Yahweh. Robert Graves and Raphael Patai touch further on this topic by saying “Prophets and Psalmists were as careless about the pagan origins of the religious imagery they borrowed,” including the name “Yahweh”. Another name for Yahweh is Yah. George Arthur Buttrick states that “the name Yah appears 25 times in the Old Testament” Professor Hommel, suggests that this god “Yah is another form of the name Ea..." Ea is Enlil, the Sumerian pagan deity known as “Father of the gods”. George Hart, in his "A Dictionary of Egyptian Gods and Goddesses" suggests that Yah/Yahweh is the Akkadian moon-god, Sin. Another name for Yahweh is Yaw. Stephen Herbert Langdon, views “Yaw” as a female deity and points out that archeologists have found a coin that gives strong indication that “Yaw” was actually the sun god.

Untold Stories: The Bible and Ugaritic Studies in the Twentieth Century,Mark S Smith, Peabody,MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 2001.
p.139. Cohn
p. 28. Robert Graves & Raphael Patai. Hebrew Myths: The Book of Genesis.
New York. Greewich House. 1983 reprint of 1963, 1964 edition
p. 409. vol. 2. B. W. Anderson. "God, Names of." pp. 407-416. George Arthur Buttrick. Editor. The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible. Nashville. Abingdon Press. 1962
p. 59. Theophilus G. Pinches. The Old Testament in the Light of the Historical Records and Legends of Assyria and Babylonia. London. Society For Promoting Christian Knowledge. 1908
"A Dictionary of Egyptian Gods and Goddesses by George Hart, published in 1986 by Routledge, ISBN 0-415-05909-7,
p.44, fig. 24. Stephen Herbert Langdon. The Mythology of All Races- Semitic. Vol. 5. Boston. Marshall Jones Company. 1931. pp. 454
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Andaraawus
10-10-2006, 11:32 AM
Documentation:

“Yahweh is an almagam of many gods and goddesses, Mesopotamian, Hittite, Syrian, Phoenician, Egyptian, and Canaanite... Gods fused into Yahweh's persona are Enlil, Anu, Utu (Shamash), Ea (Enki),and the Egyptian Hyksos' god Baal Saphon (Baal Hadad) as well as Seth”
(Yahweh-Elohim's Historical Evolution (Pre-Biblical)
Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld )



"The titles and attributes of many other Near Eastern deities were successively awarded to Yahweh Elohim...Prophets and Psalmists were as careless about the pagan origins of the religious imagery they borrowed, as priests were about the adaptation of heathen sacrifical rites to God's service. The crucial question was: in whose honour these prophecies and hymns should now be sung, or these rites enacted? If in honour of Yahweh Elohim, not Anath, Baal or Tammuz, all was proper and pious."
(p. 28. Robert Graves & Raphael Patai. Hebrew Myths: The Book of Genesis.
New York. Greewich House. 1983 reprint of 1963, 1964 edition)



"Professor Hommel, the well-known Assyriologist and Professor of Semitic languages at Munich, suggests that this god Yah is another form of the name Ea..."
(p. 59. Theophilus G. Pinches. The Old Testament in the Light of the Historical Records and Legends of Assyria and Babylonia. London. Society For Promoting Christian Knowledge. 1908)

"The reason of the coming of the Flood seems to have been seems to have been regarded by the Babylonians as two-fold. In the first place, as Pir-napishtim is made to say "Always the river rises and brings a flood" -in other words it was a natural phenomenon. But in the course of the narrative which he relates to Gilgamesh, the true reason is implied, though it does not seem to be stated in words. And this reason is the same as that of the Old Testament, namely, the wickedness of the world...Pir-napishtim was himself a worshipper of Ae, and on account of that circumstance, he is represented in the story as being under the special protection of that god...It has been more than once suggested, and Professor Hommel has stated the matter as his opinion, that the name of the god Ae or Ea, another possible reading of which is Aa, may be in some way connected with, and perhaps originated the Assyro-Babylonian divine name Ya'u "god," which is cognate with the Hebrew Yah or, as it is generally written, Jah...There is one thing that is certain, and that is, that the Chaldean Noah, Pir-napishtim, was faithful in the worship of the older god, who therefore warned him, saving his life."
(pp.112-114. "The Flood." Theophilus G. Pinches. The Old Testament in the Light of the Historical Records and Legends of Assyria and Babylonia. London. Society For Promoting Christian Knowledge. 1908)
"It is not certain, however, that 'yahweh' was the oldest form of the name. A short form 'yah' appears 25 times in the Old Testament (Ex 15:2; and cultic cry 'hallelu-yah'= 'praise yah'). Sometimes the short form appears as 'yahu' or 'yo' as in proper names like Joel ('Yo is God') or Isaiah ('Yah is salvation')."

(p. 409. vol. 2. B. W. Anderson. "God, Names of." pp. 407-416. George Arthur Buttrick. Editor. The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible. Nashville. Abingdon Press. 1962)


"Thanks to the rediscovery in recent times, of considerable portions of Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Hittite, and Canaanite literature, it is now possible to recognize in the Bible several traces of ancient Near Eastern mythology. These appear in three forms : (a) direct parallels; (b) allusions; and (c) survivals in figurative expressions. In all cases they are accommodated to the religion of Israel by boldly transferring to Yahweh the heroic feats of the older pagan gods..Direct parallels to ancient Near Eastern myths are represented principally by (a) the fight of Yahweh against the dragon; (b) the stories of Creation and Paradise; and (c) the tale of the Deluge...All this is simply the Hebrew version of the story told in the Ugaritic myth of Baal concerning the victory of that god over the draconic Yam (alias Nahar), the genius of the Sea and Rivers..."

(p.481. Vol. 3. T.H. Gaster. "Myth, Mythology." G.A. Buttrick. Editor. The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible. Nashville, Tennessee. Abingdon Press. 1962)


"Yaw was associated with the Canaanitish Mother-goddess. `Ashart-`Anat, as we know from the name of the deity of the Jews at Elephantine, `Anat-Yaw, where two other father-mother titles of divinities occur, such as Ashim-Bethel, `Anat-Bethel, in which the titles of Astarte are combined with the sun-god Bethel. It is precisely at Gaza. where Yaw as a sun-god appears on a coin (fig. 23), that coins frequently bear the figure of this `Ashtart-Yaw, Anat-Yaw, Anat-Bethel, corresponding to the Phoenician Melk-Ashtart, Eshmun-Ashtart. Fig. 24, of the Persian period, is charcteristic of this male-female, or female-male deity, and the heads, being joined, prove that under these names was worshipped a deity who combines the attributes of both."
(p.44, fig. 24. Stephen Herbert Langdon. The Mythology of All Races- Semitic. Vol. 5. Boston. Marshall Jones Company. 1931. pp. 454)




, "the god Yawi is a newcomer, a syncretistic deity to whom his devotees claim to assimilate the local gods such as Ila/El or Adad [or Dagan]." Yawi, of course, is the same as Yahweh."

(p. 284. Herbert B. Huffmon. "Yahweh and Mari." pp. 283-289, in Hans Goedicke. Editor. Near Eastern Studies in Honor of William Foxwell Albright. Baltimore, Maryland. The Johns Hopkins Press. 1971)

“Indeed, the Hebrew Bible itself, the great excoriator of the idolaters, owes something to the Mesopotamian world. Knowledge gleaned from Ugaritic texts has cast much light on early Hebrew. The two languages are not so very different, but the most startling discoveries relate to the development of what was to become a distinctly Jewish monotheism. Although the idea would have appalled the Prophets of Israel, it seems clear that El, the Ugaritic and Canaanite father god, displays a number of characteristics typical of Yahweh and can even be seen as the evolutionary precursor of Israel’s Jehovah. El also has much in common with Enlil, Sumer’s “king of heaven and earth.” Many other Sumerian and Akkadian themes are present throughout the Old Testament. The most obvious example being the tales of the flood …which find there way into Genesis…”

(p137 Middle Eastern Myth & Mankind – Epics of Early Civilization)


As scholars translated these texts it became clear that the character of the Hebrew god Yahweh shared much with earlier Ugaritic models. In the Judaic development of monotheism, Yahweh seems to have combined qualities of the older Canaanites deities El and Baal. However, in their eagerness to deny this connection and to emphasize the uniqueness of Yahweh, the Old Testament prophets denounced Baal as a false god of enemy tribes. The Canaanites deities also have much in common with the Mesopotamian pantheon. El who was the chief of the gods who upheld and enforced the institution of kingship.”

(Middle Eastern Myth & Mankind – Epics of Early Civilization, p97)





Yahweh claims in Exodus 6.2–3:
I revealed myself to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as Ēl Shaddāi, but was not known to them by my name Yahweh.

“…in Psalm 29, Yahweh is clearly envisioned as a storm god…”



Yahweh was called Baal bible confirms Hosea 2:16 (RSV)

"And in that day, says the Lord, you will call me, 'My Husband' and no longer will you call me, 'My Baal." For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, and they shall be mentioned by name no more."

“There were many Yah gods throughout the lands of Egypt, Canaan, and Assyria. Yah is associated with the moon god in Egypt, with the heifer/cow gods of Jeroboam, and with goat gods. One thing is certain, the real God of Israel was not Yah or Yahweh as we are led to believe.” – Pastor Reckart @ Acts0412@jmfi.org

In Israel, ancient Hebrew inscriptions have been found on pottery. One translated artifact reads: "Thus says...Say to Yehalle[lel], Yo`asa and...I bless you (herewith- or: have blessed you) to/before Yahweh of Samaria and his asherah." (Othmar Keel and Christoph Uehlinger. Gods, Goddesses, and Images of God in Ancient Israel. Minneapolis. Fortress Press. 1998. ISBN 0-8006-2789-X ).


"Some have argued that the god Yaw (Yahweh) was a moon-god but the sources both Aramaic and Hebrew indicate his identity with the rain and thunder god, Adad." (p.41, Stephen Herbert Langdon. The Mythology of All Races, Semitic. Vol.5. Boston. Marshall Jones Company 1931 / p.41, Langdon)

“…Yahweh was worshipped as a Golden Calf by Israel…”. -Walter Reinhold

El, Canaanite high god, El was identified with Yahweh in the Hebrew Bible. (p.419, Sarah Iles Johnston, Religion of the Ancient World, Harvard University Press).

The god El, worshipped by Abraham and later identified with Yahweh, was the high god of the Canaanite pantheon…the theophancies of Yahweh in the Bible (e.g., on mount Sinai: ) are described in language that is very similar to descriptions of Baal in the Ugaritic texts…Yahweh is far more often depicted as a storm god, in accordance with Canaanite imagery … In Israel, however, Yahweh was no longer worshipped primarily as a storm god, but as the god who bought the people of Israel into existence. (p.182, Sarah Iles Johnston, Religion of the Ancient World, Harvard University Press).
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AvarAllahNoor
10-10-2006, 01:18 PM
Allah couldn't possibly be the 'Moon God' even our holy Scriptures refer to God as Allah!

Although i've been reading up on it, to why people come to his conclusion.
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Andaraawus
10-11-2006, 05:49 AM
Salam - just getting this post back at the top , i like for people to give this thread a read and give comments and feedback ...wasalam,s
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Andaraawus
10-11-2006, 05:50 AM
infact i might as well give people that little extra.. hang on ... let me dip in my goody bag ..
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Andaraawus
10-11-2006, 05:52 AM
THE NAME ALLAH USED BY JEWS AND CHRISTIANS “BEFORE” ISLAM

Dr Robert Morey in attempt to prove that the “Allah” is alien to the Jews an the Christians cites documents cites from many “Islamic scholars” only to claim “The following citations reveal that there is a general consensus among Islamic scholars that Allah was a pagan deity before Islam developed”. – page 13 winning the war against radical Islam. He quotes from western scholars and Christian theologians such as: Arthur Jeffery, John Gilchrist, Alfred Guillaume, e.t.c. however when we reference their works we find them to contradict the whole purpose for which Dr Robert Morey cites them.

John Gilchrist clearly states that the name “Allah” was indeed used by Christians before the dawn of Islam, he even cites Arthur Jeffrey as an authority when he says “It will be useful to point out here, however, that there is nothing unique about the word Allah, nor must it be regarded as coming originally from the pages of the Qur'an. On the contrary it is quite clearly derived from the Syriac word Alaha (meaning "God") in common use among Christians in pre-Islamic times (cf. the authorities cited by Jeffery in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an, p.66)...” (Chapter 6 Textual History of The Qur’an & The Bible). The site “Answering Islam” confirm this saying “It seems unlikely that the name Allah comes from al-ilaah "the God", but rather from the Aramaic/Syriac alaha, meaning 'God' or 'the God'. The final 'a' in the name alaha was originally the definite article 'the' and is regularly dropped when Syriac words and names are borrowed into Arabic. Middle-eastern Christianity used 'alah' and 'alaha' frequently, and it would have often been heard. But in the Aramaic/Syriac language there are two different 'a' vowels, one rather like the 'a' in English 'hat' and the other more like the vowel in 'ought'. In the case of 'alah', the first vowel was like 'hat' and the second like 'ought'. Arabic does not have a vowel like the one in 'ought', but it seems to have borrowed this vowel along with the word 'alah'. If you know Arabic, then you know that the second vowel in 'Allah' is unique; it occurs only in that one word in Arabic. Scholars believe that Jesus spoke mostly Aramaic, although sometimes he spoke Hebrew and he might have spoken Greek on some occasions. If Jesus spoke Aramaic, then he referred to God using basically the same word that is used in Arabic. (www.********************)


Another scholar Dr. Robert Morey quotes is Alfred Guillaume. In his book entitled Islam, Alfred Guillaume states: “In Arabia Allâh was known from Christian and Jewish sources as the one God, and there can be no doubt whatever that he was known to the pagan Arabs of Mecca as the supreme being.” (Islam page 7-8) Further archeological evidence has been found with the inscription “Allah”. The free online encyclopedia, Wikipedia reports “The pagan Arabians also used the word "Allāh" in the names of their children; Muhammad's father, who was born into pagan society, was named "`Abdullāh", which translates "servant of Allāh". "`Abdullāh" is still used for names of Muslim and non-Muslims (e.g. Christians also used the word, as testified by the Zabad inscription). "Abdullāh" was also the name of the father of Maimon, whose son Moses is the Jewish principal Rabbi commonly known in English as Maimonides. Maimonides himself wrote his works mostly in Arabic on which his name appear as "Mussa bin Maimun ibn Abdullah al-Kurtubi.” The evidence demonstrates that Allah was known to the Jews and the Christians before the advent of Islam as the true universal G-d. Therefore Muhammad was not “trying to have it both ways” as Dr. Robert Morey suggests.
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Andaraawus
10-12-2006, 10:20 AM
the missing link is answering- blah blah you know who, the Admin edited the link ...wasalams
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`Abd al-Azeez
10-13-2006, 09:33 PM
Looks good so far Masha'Allah :)
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Andaraawus
10-16-2006, 09:23 PM
Charizma said on one post :

14. You’ve been corrected in grammar/spelling by zAk at least once in your lifetime. *if not, lucky you, but know he will one day*
yes please!
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Andaraawus
10-17-2006, 11:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Allah couldn't possibly be the 'Moon God' even our holy Scriptures refer to God as Allah!

Although i've been reading up on it, to why people come to his conclusion.
Sorry,i have only just noticed you was a Sikh, your statement has arroused my curiousity , get back at me fella , i want to know more.
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Curaezipirid
10-17-2006, 11:41 PM
Assalam Alaikum Andaraawus, and good for you to be working through the document to build a detailed refutation of an obvious assault upon Islam.

The kind of material which presents any argument that Allah is in any way different from what we demand of ourselves in belief in the foundations is always to dreary and turgid to read through. I have little patience with merely reading such, little own building a sound refutation.

You might remember that example I posted in Islam Global Message of an early minimal attempt to build a description of Allah that was made as a small portion of a larger methodology for working with folk whom manifest an atheist self, but whom are believers in the wonder of science as miraculous. My own need has been to find better vehicles within modern English dialects for working with such folk. But after first encountering a translation of the foundations I regard such as the necessary matter to put into a modern English dialect, rather than any new beginning of trying to place into language what Allah is and is not. Truly we either already believe or we never will. But I have encountered individuals whom were so abused by persons claiming belief in God that they want to refute that they assume we mean by belief in One God. That was what motivated me. But the absurdity is that I knew that the document came to the attention of Hare Krishnas whilst I was assembling it, and so utilised their accidental knowledge of as an experiment with what they are able to believe within that structure. Sadly their small patch of what the whole of Hindu is, is that patch which went under the water, but well before they encountered what I wrote. I had detected actual nazis among them during the incident in which they made an enquiry of me, and seemed to misinterpret me so dramatically that it might as well have been entirely.

However, that told, it might interest you what I have commented elsewhere about the Vedic teaching in respect of there being three different modes of Human comprehension of One God. One dualist model and two non-dualist models. Using a simply lesson about what the three modes of comprehension are might help you refutation.

wasalam
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Andaraawus
10-18-2006, 12:27 AM
How do you know im from Islam Global?
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