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therebbe
10-10-2006, 02:02 AM
I am a pious Jew, and Jews let Muslims pray on our temple mount every friday, and we allow you to pray in any mosque in Israel.

Why not let me and the humble Jews who wish no violence to pray in the tomb of Joseph or at least visit? It ended up being razed by Arab vandals.

The sacred Jewish site regarded as the grave of the biblical patriarch Joseph has been turned into a pile of rubble by Arab vandalsm, and I just wish to know why. :cry: That is all... If we would have razed the gravesite of one of the founders of Islam, billions of Muslims would have taken to the streets. :cry:

Why did you do this to one of our holy sites? It was a place I would have wanted to take my children to.

Can you please explain, or at least condemn the action as one that does not represent your feelings. I'm having a lot of disapointment right now, much more so then anger. :cry:

If Muslims got Jerusalem back, would we be granted prayer at the Western Wall, just like we grant you prayer on the temple mount? Under Arab rule before we were not granted any access to pray.
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Keltoi
10-10-2006, 02:16 AM
I take it this vandalism is a recent occurrence? I don't believe any holy site should be vandalized, no matter what religion it is. This is sad.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-10-2006, 02:21 AM
If a Muslim destroys property then its completely wrong. We aren't supposed to attack anyones property. Well since you say Arabs, how do u know they are Muslim or not? Did they actually say that? Well I dont see why u shouldnt be able to pray. Plus our ways of praying are not completely different. I dont know if the people themselves would but Islam i think allows it. If your referring to the Prophet(pbuh) as a founder then please dont say that.
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therebbe
10-10-2006, 02:30 AM
Well since you say Arabs, how do u know they are Muslim or not?
They wanted to create a Mosque on top of the graves of one of the founders of Judaism.

Well I dont see why u shouldnt be able to pray.
Jews are denied access to. Many sneak in and try to avoid the Palestinian police or people who might hurt them.

I take it this vandalism is a recent occurrence?
It has been vandalized again and again. The recent occurance is my families pilgramage to eretz yisrael and me not being able to visit a holy site with my children.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-10-2006, 02:33 AM
I think its cuz of all the built hatred people have against each other there. Well I dont think its right. According to Islam, its not. If I actually knew all the causes and reasons I would give a definite answer. I dont know if what i hear is true or false. I cant trust people anymore. Too much drama.
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جوري
10-10-2006, 02:58 AM
lol....... I don't want to meet your posts with the usual you are a nut, and a Moron and a low IQ'd person because it is disrespectful.....where do you consider Joeseph (PBUH) to be burried?......... because we Muslims know he died AND IS BURRIED in his beloved Egypt where he lived and ruled..... if you have a different site in mind then that is not Joseph whose grave is being vandelized..... Aside from the fact that is it utterly disrespectful in Islam to desecrate a grave..... it is even more so when it is the grave of a holy prophet such as Joseph.......who has an entire chapter dedicated to him in the Quran...... where do you come up with this stuff?......
or is this another sacred temple waiting to be found right where the Aqsa Mosque is located? sheesh

الر تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ {1}
[Pickthal 12:1] Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verse of the Scripture that maketh plain.

إِنَّا أَنزَلْنَاهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ {2}
[Pickthal 12:2] Lo! We have revealed it, a Lecture in Arabic, that ye may understand.

نَحْنُ نَقُصُّ عَلَيْكَ أَحْسَنَ الْقَصَصِ بِمَا أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ هَـذَا الْقُرْآنَ وَإِن كُنتَ مِن قَبْلِهِ لَمِنَ الْغَافِلِينَ {3}
[Pickthal 12:3] We narrate unto thee (Muhammad) the best of narratives in that We have inspired in thee this Qur'an, though aforetime thou wast of the heedless.

إِذْ قَالَ يُوسُفُ لِأَبِيهِ يَا أَبتِ إِنِّي رَأَيْتُ أَحَدَ عَشَرَ كَوْكَبًا وَالشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ رَأَيْتُهُمْ لِي سَاجِدِينَ {4}
[Pickthal 12:4] When Joseph said unto his father: O my father! Lo! I saw in a dream eleven planets and the sun and the moon, I saw them prostrating themselves unto me.

قَالَ يَا بُنَيَّ لاَ تَقْصُصْ رُؤْيَاكَ عَلَى إِخْوَتِكَ فَيَكِيدُواْ لَكَ كَيْدًا إِنَّ الشَّيْطَانَ لِلإِنسَانِ عَدُوٌّ مُّبِينٌ {5}
[Pickthal 12:5] He said: O my dear son! Tell not thy brethren of thy vision, lest they plot a plot against thee. Lo! Satan is for man an open foe.

وَكَذَلِكَ يَجْتَبِيكَ رَبُّكَ وَيُعَلِّمُكَ مِن تَأْوِيلِ الأَحَادِيثِ وَيُتِمُّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكَ وَعَلَى آلِ يَعْقُوبَ كَمَا أَتَمَّهَا عَلَى أَبَوَيْكَ مِن قَبْلُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْحَاقَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ {6}
[Pickthal 12:6] Thus thy Lord will prefer thee and will teach thee the interpretation of events, and will perfect His grace upon thee and upon the family of Jacob as He perfected it upon thy forefathers, Abraham and Isaac. Lo! thy Lord is Knower, Wise.

لَّقَدْ كَانَ فِي يُوسُفَ وَإِخْوَتِهِ آيَاتٌ لِّلسَّائِلِينَ {7}
[Pickthal 12:7] Verily in Joseph and his brethren are signs (of Allah's Sovereignty) for the inquiring.

إِذْ قَالُواْ لَيُوسُفُ وَأَخُوهُ أَحَبُّ إِلَى أَبِينَا مِنَّا وَنَحْنُ عُصْبَةٌ إِنَّ أَبَانَا لَفِي ضَلاَلٍ مُّبِينٍ {8}
[Pickthal 12:8] When they said: Verily Joseph and his brother are dearer to our father than we are, many though we be. Lo! our father is in plain aberration.

اقْتُلُواْ يُوسُفَ أَوِ اطْرَحُوهُ أَرْضًا يَخْلُ لَكُمْ وَجْهُ أَبِيكُمْ وَتَكُونُواْ مِن بَعْدِهِ قَوْمًا صَالِحِينَ {9}
[Pickthal 12:9] (One said): Kill Joseph or cast him to some (other) land, so that your father's favour may be all for you, and (that) ye may afterward be righteous folk.

قَالَ قَآئِلٌ مَّنْهُمْ لاَ تَقْتُلُواْ يُوسُفَ وَأَلْقُوهُ فِي غَيَابَةِ الْجُبِّ يَلْتَقِطْهُ بَعْضُ السَّيَّارَةِ إِن كُنتُمْ فَاعِلِينَ {10}
[Pickthal 12:10] One among them said: Kill not Joseph but, if ye must be doing, fling him into the depth of the pit; some caravan will find him.

قَالُواْ يَا أَبَانَا مَا لَكَ لاَ تَأْمَنَّا عَلَى يُوسُفَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَنَاصِحُونَ {11}
[Pickthal 12:11] They said: O our father! Why wilt thou not trust us with Joseph, when lo! we are good friends to him?

أَرْسِلْهُ مَعَنَا غَدًا يَرْتَعْ وَيَلْعَبْ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ {12}
[Pickthal 12:12] Send him with us to-morrow that he may enjoy himself and play. And lo! we shall take good care of him.

قَالَ إِنِّي لَيَحْزُنُنِي أَن تَذْهَبُواْ بِهِ وَأَخَافُ أَن يَأْكُلَهُ الذِّئْبُ وَأَنتُمْ عَنْهُ غَافِلُونَ {13}
[Pickthal 12:13] He said: Lo! in truth it saddens me that ye should take him with you, and I fear less the wolf devour him while ye are heedless of him.

قَالُواْ لَئِنْ أَكَلَهُ الذِّئْبُ وَنَحْنُ عُصْبَةٌ إِنَّا إِذًا لَّخَاسِرُونَ {14}
[Pickthal 12:14] They said: If the wolf should devour him when we are (so strong) a band, then surely we should have already perished.

فَلَمَّا ذَهَبُواْ بِهِ وَأَجْمَعُواْ أَن يَجْعَلُوهُ فِي غَيَابَةِ الْجُبِّ وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْهِ لَتُنَبِّئَنَّهُم بِأَمْرِهِمْ هَـذَا وَهُمْ لاَ يَشْعُرُونَ {15}
[Pickthal 12:15] Then, when they led him off, and were of one mind that they should place him in the depth of the pit, We inspired in him: Thou wilt tell them of this deed of theirs when they know (thee) not.

وَجَاؤُواْ أَبَاهُمْ عِشَاء يَبْكُونَ {16}
[Pickthal 12:16] And they came weeping to their father in the evening.

قَالُواْ يَا أَبَانَا إِنَّا ذَهَبْنَا نَسْتَبِقُ وَتَرَكْنَا يُوسُفَ عِندَ مَتَاعِنَا فَأَكَلَهُ الذِّئْبُ وَمَا أَنتَ بِمُؤْمِنٍ لِّنَا وَلَوْ كُنَّا صَادِقِينَ {17}
[Pickthal 12:17] Saying: O our father! We went racing one with another, and left Joseph by our things, and the wolf devoured him, and thou believest not our saying even when we speak the truth.

وَجَآؤُوا عَلَى قَمِيصِهِ بِدَمٍ كَذِبٍ قَالَ بَلْ سَوَّلَتْ لَكُمْ أَنفُسُكُمْ أَمْرًا فَصَبْرٌ جَمِيلٌ وَاللّهُ الْمُسْتَعَانُ عَلَى مَا تَصِفُونَ {18}
[Pickthal 12:18] And they came with false blood on his shirt. He said: Nay, but your minds have beguiled you into something. (My course is) comely patience. And Allah it is Whose help is to be sought in that (predicament) which ye describe.

وَجَاءتْ سَيَّارَةٌ فَأَرْسَلُواْ وَارِدَهُمْ فَأَدْلَى دَلْوَهُ قَالَ يَا بُشْرَى هَـذَا غُلاَمٌ وَأَسَرُّوهُ بِضَاعَةً وَاللّهُ عَلِيمٌ بِمَا يَعْمَلُونَ {19}
[Pickthal 12:19] And there came a caravan, and they sent their waterdrawer. He let down his pail (into the pit). He said: Good luck! Here is a youth. And they hid him as a treasure, and Allah was Aware of what they did.

وَشَرَوْهُ بِثَمَنٍ بَخْسٍ دَرَاهِمَ مَعْدُودَةٍ وَكَانُواْ فِيهِ مِنَ الزَّاهِدِينَ {20}
[Pickthal 12:20] And they sold him for a low price, a number of silver coins; and they attached no value to him.

وَقَالَ الَّذِي اشْتَرَاهُ مِن مِّصْرَ لاِمْرَأَتِهِ أَكْرِمِي مَثْوَاهُ عَسَى أَن يَنفَعَنَا أَوْ نَتَّخِذَهُ وَلَدًا وَكَذَلِكَ مَكَّنِّا لِيُوسُفَ فِي الأَرْضِ وَلِنُعَلِّمَهُ مِن تَأْوِيلِ الأَحَادِيثِ وَاللّهُ غَالِبٌ عَلَى أَمْرِهِ وَلَـكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ {21}
[Pickthal 12:21] And he of Egypt who purchased him said unto his wife: Receive him honourably. Perchance he may prove useful to us or we may adopt him as a son. Thus we established Joseph in the land that We might teach him the interpretation of events. And Allah was predominant in His career, but most of mankind know not.

وَلَمَّا بَلَغَ أَشُدَّهُ آتَيْنَاهُ حُكْمًا وَعِلْمًا وَكَذَلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ {22}
[Pickthal 12:22] And And when he reached his prime We gave him wisdom and knowledge. Thus We reward the good.

وَرَاوَدَتْهُ الَّتِي هُوَ فِي بَيْتِهَا عَن نَّفْسِهِ وَغَلَّقَتِ الأَبْوَابَ وَقَالَتْ هَيْتَ لَكَ قَالَ مَعَاذَ اللّهِ إِنَّهُ رَبِّي أَحْسَنَ مَثْوَايَ إِنَّهُ لاَ يُفْلِحُ الظَّالِمُونَ {23}
[Pickthal 12:23] And she, in whose house he was, asked of him an evil act. She bolted the doors and said: Come! He said: I seek refuge in Allah! Lo! he is my lord, who hath treated me honourably. Lo! wrong-doers never prosper.

وَلَقَدْ هَمَّتْ بِهِ وَهَمَّ بِهَا لَوْلا أَن رَّأَى بُرْهَانَ رَبِّهِ كَذَلِكَ لِنَصْرِفَ عَنْهُ السُّوءَ وَالْفَحْشَاء إِنَّهُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا الْمُخْلَصِينَ {24}
[Pickthal 12:24] She verily desired him, and he would have desired her if it had not been that he saw the argument of his Lord. Thus it was, that We might ward off from him evil and lewdness. Lo! he was of Our chosen slaves.

وَاسُتَبَقَا الْبَابَ وَقَدَّتْ قَمِيصَهُ مِن دُبُرٍ وَأَلْفَيَا سَيِّدَهَا لَدَى الْبَابِ قَالَتْ مَا جَزَاء مَنْ أَرَادَ بِأَهْلِكَ سُوَءًا إِلاَّ أَن يُسْجَنَ أَوْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ {25}
[Pickthal 12:25] And they raced with one another to the door, and she tore his shirt from behind, and they met her lord and master at the door. She said: What shall be his reward, who wisheth evil to thy folk, save prison or a painful doom?

قَالَ هِيَ رَاوَدَتْنِي عَن نَّفْسِي وَشَهِدَ شَاهِدٌ مِّنْ أَهْلِهَا إِن كَانَ قَمِيصُهُ قُدَّ مِن قُبُلٍ فَصَدَقَتْ وَهُوَ مِنَ الكَاذِبِينَ {26}
[Pickthal 12:26] (Joseph) said: She it was who asked of me an evil act. And a witness of her own folk testified: If his shirt is torn from before, then she speaketh truth and he is of the liars.

وَإِنْ كَانَ قَمِيصُهُ قُدَّ مِن دُبُرٍ فَكَذَبَتْ وَهُوَ مِن الصَّادِقِينَ {27}
[Pickthal 12:27] And if his shirt is torn from behind, then she hath lied and he is of the truthful.

فَلَمَّا رَأَى قَمِيصَهُ قُدَّ مِن دُبُرٍ قَالَ إِنَّهُ مِن كَيْدِكُنَّ إِنَّ كَيْدَكُنَّ عَظِيمٌ {28}
[Pickthal 12:28] So when he saw his shirt torn from behind, he said: Lo! this is of the guile of you women. Lo! the guile of you is very great.

يُوسُفُ أَعْرِضْ عَنْ هَـذَا وَاسْتَغْفِرِي لِذَنبِكِ إِنَّكِ كُنتِ مِنَ الْخَاطِئِينَ {29}
[Pickthal 12:29] O Joseph! Turn away from this, and thou, (O woman), ask forgiveness for thy sin. Lo! thou art of the faulty.

وَقَالَ نِسْوَةٌ فِي الْمَدِينَةِ امْرَأَةُ الْعَزِيزِ تُرَاوِدُ فَتَاهَا عَن نَّفْسِهِ قَدْ شَغَفَهَا حُبًّا إِنَّا لَنَرَاهَا فِي ضَلاَلٍ مُّبِينٍ {30}
[Pickthal 12:30] And women in the city said: The ruler's wife is asking of her slave-boy an ill-deed. Indeed he has smitten her to the heart with love. We behold her in plain aberration.

فَلَمَّا سَمِعَتْ بِمَكْرِهِنَّ أَرْسَلَتْ إِلَيْهِنَّ وَأَعْتَدَتْ لَهُنَّ مُتَّكَأً وَآتَتْ كُلَّ وَاحِدَةٍ مِّنْهُنَّ سِكِّينًا وَقَالَتِ اخْرُجْ عَلَيْهِنَّ فَلَمَّا رَأَيْنَهُ أَكْبَرْنَهُ وَقَطَّعْنَ أَيْدِيَهُنَّ وَقُلْنَ حَاشَ لِلّهِ مَا هَـذَا بَشَرًا إِنْ هَـذَا إِلاَّ مَلَكٌ كَرِيمٌ {31}
[Pickthal 12:31] And when she heard of their sly talk, she sent to them and prepared for them a cushioned couch (to lie on at the feast) and gave to every one of them a knife and said (to Joseph): Come out unto them! And when they saw him they exalted him and cut their hands, exclaiming: Allah is Blameless! This is not a human being. This is not other than some gracious angel.

قَالَتْ فَذَلِكُنَّ الَّذِي لُمْتُنَّنِي فِيهِ وَلَقَدْ رَاوَدتُّهُ عَن نَّفْسِهِ فَاسَتَعْصَمَ وَلَئِن لَّمْ يَفْعَلْ مَا آمُرُهُ لَيُسْجَنَنَّ وَلَيَكُونًا مِّنَ الصَّاغِرِينَ {32}
[Pickthal 12:32] She said: This is he on whose account ye blamed me. I asked of him an evil act, but he proved continent, but if he do not my behest he verily shall be imprisoned, and verily shall be of those brought low.

قَالَ رَبِّ السِّجْنُ أَحَبُّ إِلَيَّ مِمَّا يَدْعُونَنِي إِلَيْهِ وَإِلاَّ تَصْرِفْ عَنِّي كَيْدَهُنَّ أَصْبُ إِلَيْهِنَّ وَأَكُن مِّنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ {33}
[Pickthal 12:33] He said: O my Lord! Prison is more dear than that unto which they urge me, and if Thou fend not off their wiles from me I shall incline unto them and become of the foolish.

فَاسْتَجَابَ لَهُ رَبُّهُ فَصَرَفَ عَنْهُ كَيْدَهُنَّ إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ {34}
[Pickthal 12:34] So his Lord heard his prayer and fended off their wiles from him. Lo! He is Hearer, Knower.

ثُمَّ بَدَا لَهُم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا رَأَوُاْ الآيَاتِ لَيَسْجُنُنَّهُ حَتَّى حِينٍ {35}
[Pickthal 12:35] And it seemed good to them (the men-folk) after they had seen the signs (of his innocence) to imprison him for a time.

وَدَخَلَ مَعَهُ السِّجْنَ فَتَيَانَ قَالَ أَحَدُهُمَا إِنِّي أَرَانِي أَعْصِرُ خَمْرًا وَقَالَ الآخَرُ إِنِّي أَرَانِي أَحْمِلُ فَوْقَ رَأْسِي خُبْزًا تَأْكُلُ الطَّيْرُ مِنْهُ نَبِّئْنَا بِتَأْوِيلِهِ إِنَّا نَرَاكَ مِنَ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {36}
[Pickthal 12:36] And two young men went to prison with him. One of them said: I dreamed that I was pressing wine. The other said: I dreamed that I was carrying upon my head bread whereof the birds were eating. Announce unto us the interpretation, for we see thee of those good (at interpretation).

قَالَ لاَ يَأْتِيكُمَا طَعَامٌ تُرْزَقَانِهِ إِلاَّ نَبَّأْتُكُمَا بِتَأْوِيلِهِ قَبْلَ أَن يَأْتِيكُمَا ذَلِكُمَا مِمَّا عَلَّمَنِي رَبِّي إِنِّي تَرَكْتُ مِلَّةَ قَوْمٍ لاَّ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَهُم بِالآخِرَةِ هُمْ كَافِرُونَ {37}
[Pickthal 12:37] He said: The food which ye are given (daily) shall not come unto you but I shall tell you the interpretation ere it cometh unto you. This is of that which my Lord hath taught me. Lo! I have forsaken the religion of folk who believe not in Allah and are disbelievers in the Hereafter.

وَاتَّبَعْتُ مِلَّةَ آبَآئِـي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ مَا كَانَ لَنَا أَن نُّشْرِكَ بِاللّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ ذَلِكَ مِن فَضْلِ اللّهِ عَلَيْنَا وَعَلَى النَّاسِ وَلَـكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يَشْكُرُونَ {38}
[Pickthal 12:38] And I have followed the religion of my fathers, Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. It never was for us to attribute aught as partner to Allah. This is of the bounty of Allah unto us (the seed of Abraham) and unto mankind; but most men give not thanks.

يَا صَاحِبَيِ السِّجْنِ أَأَرْبَابٌ مُّتَفَرِّقُونَ خَيْرٌ أَمِ اللّهُ الْوَاحِدُ الْقَهَّارُ {39}
[Pickthal 12:39] O my fellow-prisoners! Are divers lords better, or Allah the One, Almighty?

مَا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِهِ إِلاَّ أَسْمَاء سَمَّيْتُمُوهَا أَنتُمْ وَآبَآؤُكُم مَّا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ بِهَا مِن سُلْطَانٍ إِنِ الْحُكْمُ إِلاَّ لِلّهِ أَمَرَ أَلاَّ تَعْبُدُواْ إِلاَّ إِيَّاهُ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَـكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ {40}
[Pickthal 12:40] Those whom ye worship beside Him are but names which ye have named, ye and your fathers. Allah hath revealed no sanction for them. The decision rests with Allah only, Who hath commanded you that ye worship none save Him. This is the right religion, but most men know not.

يَا صَاحِبَيِ السِّجْنِ أَمَّا أَحَدُكُمَا فَيَسْقِي رَبَّهُ خَمْرًا وَأَمَّا الآخَرُ فَيُصْلَبُ فَتَأْكُلُ الطَّيْرُ مِن رَّأْسِهِ قُضِيَ الأَمْرُ الَّذِي فِيهِ تَسْتَفْتِيَانِ {41}
[Pickthal 12:41] O my two fellow-prisoners! As for one of you, he will pour out wine for his lord to drink; and as for the other, he will be crucified so that the birds will eat from his head. Thus is the case judged concerning which ye did inquire.

وَقَالَ لِلَّذِي ظَنَّ أَنَّهُ نَاجٍ مِّنْهُمَا اذْكُرْنِي عِندَ رَبِّكَ فَأَنسَاهُ الشَّيْطَانُ ذِكْرَ رَبِّهِ فَلَبِثَ فِي السِّجْنِ بِضْعَ سِنِينَ {42}
[Pickthal 12:42] And he said unto him of the twain who he knew would be released: Mention me in the presence of thy lord. But Satan caused him to forget to mention it to his lord, so he (Joseph) stayed in prison for some years.

وَقَالَ الْمَلِكُ إِنِّي أَرَى سَبْعَ بَقَرَاتٍ سِمَانٍ يَأْكُلُهُنَّ سَبْعٌ عِجَافٌ وَسَبْعَ سُنبُلاَتٍ خُضْرٍ وَأُخَرَ يَابِسَاتٍ يَا أَيُّهَا الْمَلأُ أَفْتُونِي فِي رُؤْيَايَ إِن كُنتُمْ لِلرُّؤْيَا تَعْبُرُونَ {43}
[Pickthal 12:43] And the king said: Lo! I saw in a dream seven fat kine which seven lean were eating, and seven green ears of corn and other (seven) dry. O notables! Expound for me my vision, if ye can interpret dreams.

قَالُواْ أَضْغَاثُ أَحْلاَمٍ وَمَا نَحْنُ بِتَأْوِيلِ الأَحْلاَمِ بِعَالِمِينَ {44}
[Pickthal 12:44] They answered: Jumbled dreams! And we are not knowing in the interpretation of dreams.

وَقَالَ الَّذِي نَجَا مِنْهُمَا وَادَّكَرَ بَعْدَ أُمَّةٍ أَنَاْ أُنَبِّئُكُم بِتَأْوِيلِهِ فَأَرْسِلُونِ {45}
[Pickthal 12:45] And he of the two who was released, and (now) at length remembered, said: I am going to announce unto you the interpretation, therefore send me forth.

يُوسُفُ أَيُّهَا الصِّدِّيقُ أَفْتِنَا فِي سَبْعِ بَقَرَاتٍ سِمَانٍ يَأْكُلُهُنَّ سَبْعٌ عِجَافٌ وَسَبْعِ سُنبُلاَتٍ خُضْرٍ وَأُخَرَ يَابِسَاتٍ لَّعَلِّي أَرْجِعُ إِلَى النَّاسِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ {46}
[Pickthal 12:46] (And when he came to Joseph in the prison, he exclaimed): Joseph! O thou truthful one! Expound for us the seven fat kine which seven lean were eating and the seven green ears of corn and other (seven) dry, that I may return unto the people, so that they may know.

قَالَ تَزْرَعُونَ سَبْعَ سِنِينَ دَأَبًا فَمَا حَصَدتُّمْ فَذَرُوهُ فِي سُنبُلِهِ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً مِّمَّا تَأْكُلُونَ {47}
[Pickthal 12:47] He said: Ye shall sow seven years as usual, but that which ye reap, leave it in the ear, all save a little which ye eat.

ثُمَّ يَأْتِي مِن بَعْدِ ذَلِكَ سَبْعٌ شِدَادٌ يَأْكُلْنَ مَا قَدَّمْتُمْ لَهُنَّ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً مِّمَّا تُحْصِنُونَ {48}
[Pickthal 12:48] Then after that will come seven hard years which will devour all that ye have prepared for them, save a little of that which ye have stored.

ثُمَّ يَأْتِي مِن بَعْدِ ذَلِكَ عَامٌ فِيهِ يُغَاثُ النَّاسُ وَفِيهِ يَعْصِرُونَ {49}
[Pickthal 12:49] Then, after that, will come a year when the people will have plenteous crops and when they will press (wine and oil).

وَقَالَ الْمَلِكُ ائْتُونِي بِهِ فَلَمَّا جَاءهُ الرَّسُولُ قَالَ ارْجِعْ إِلَى رَبِّكَ فَاسْأَلْهُ مَا بَالُ النِّسْوَةِ اللاَّتِي قَطَّعْنَ أَيْدِيَهُنَّ إِنَّ رَبِّي بِكَيْدِهِنَّ عَلِيمٌ {50}
[Pickthal 12:50] And the king said: Bring him unto me. And when the messenger came unto him, he (Joseph) said: Return unto thy lord and ask him what was the case of the women who cut their hands. Lo! my Lord knoweth their guile.

قَالَ مَا خَطْبُكُنَّ إِذْ رَاوَدتُّنَّ يُوسُفَ عَن نَّفْسِهِ قُلْنَ حَاشَ لِلّهِ مَا عَلِمْنَا عَلَيْهِ مِن سُوءٍ قَالَتِ امْرَأَةُ الْعَزِيزِ الآنَ حَصْحَصَ الْحَقُّ أَنَاْ رَاوَدتُّهُ عَن نَّفْسِهِ وَإِنَّهُ لَمِنَ الصَّادِقِينَ {51}
[Pickthal 12:51] He (the king) (then sent for those women and) said: What happened when ye asked an evil act of Joseph? They answered: Allah Blameless! We know no evil of him. Said the wife of the ruler: Now the truth is out. I asked of him an evil act, and he is surely of the truthful.

ذَلِكَ لِيَعْلَمَ أَنِّي لَمْ أَخُنْهُ بِالْغَيْبِ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَهْدِي كَيْدَ الْخَائِنِينَ {52}
[Pickthal 12:52] (Then Joseph said: I asked for) this, that he (my lord) may know that I betrayed him not in secret, and that surely Allah guideth not the snare of the betrayers.

وَمَا أُبَرِّئُ نَفْسِي إِنَّ النَّفْسَ لأَمَّارَةٌ بِالسُّوءِ إِلاَّ مَا رَحِمَ رَبِّيَ إِنَّ رَبِّي غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ {53}
[Pickthal 12:53] I do not exculpate myself. Lo! the (human) soul enjoineth unto evil, save that whereon my Lord hath mercy. Lo! my Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.

وَقَالَ الْمَلِكُ ائْتُونِي بِهِ أَسْتَخْلِصْهُ لِنَفْسِي فَلَمَّا كَلَّمَهُ قَالَ إِنَّكَ الْيَوْمَ لَدَيْنَا مِكِينٌ أَمِينٌ {54}
[Pickthal 12:54] And the king said: Bring him unto me that I may attach him to my person. And when he had talked with him he said: Lo! thou art to-day in our presence established and trusted.

قَالَ اجْعَلْنِي عَلَى خَزَآئِنِ الأَرْضِ إِنِّي حَفِيظٌ عَلِيمٌ {55}
[Pickthal 12:55] He said: Set me over the storehouses of the land. Lo! I am a skilled custodian.

وَكَذَلِكَ مَكَّنِّا لِيُوسُفَ فِي الأَرْضِ يَتَبَوَّأُ مِنْهَا حَيْثُ يَشَاء نُصِيبُ بِرَحْمَتِنَا مَن نَّشَاء وَلاَ نُضِيعُ أَجْرَ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {56}
[Pickthal 12:56] Thus gave We power to Joseph in the land. He was the owner of it where he pleased. We reach with Our mercy whom We will. We lose not the reward of the good.

وَلَأَجْرُ الآخِرَةِ خَيْرٌ لِّلَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَكَانُواْ يَتَّقُونَ {57}
[Pickthal 12:57] And the reward of the Hereafter is better, for those who believe and ward off (evil).

وَجَاء إِخْوَةُ يُوسُفَ فَدَخَلُواْ عَلَيْهِ فَعَرَفَهُمْ وَهُمْ لَهُ مُنكِرُونَ {58}
[Pickthal 12:58] And Joseph's brethren came and presented themselves before him, and he knew them but they knew him not.

وَلَمَّا جَهَّزَهُم بِجَهَازِهِمْ قَالَ ائْتُونِي بِأَخٍ لَّكُم مِّنْ أَبِيكُمْ أَلاَ تَرَوْنَ أَنِّي أُوفِي الْكَيْلَ وَأَنَاْ خَيْرُ الْمُنزِلِينَ {59}
[Pickthal 12:59] And when he provided them with their provision he said: Bring unto me a brother of yours from your father. See ye not that I fill up the measure and I am the best of hosts?

فَإِن لَّمْ تَأْتُونِي بِهِ فَلاَ كَيْلَ لَكُمْ عِندِي وَلاَ تَقْرَبُونِ {60}
[Pickthal 12:60] And if ye bring him not unto me, then there shall be no measure for you with me, nor shall ye draw near.

قَالُواْ سَنُرَاوِدُ عَنْهُ أَبَاهُ وَإِنَّا لَفَاعِلُونَ {61}
[Pickthal 12:61] They said: We will try to win him from his father: that we will surely do.

وَقَالَ لِفِتْيَانِهِ اجْعَلُواْ بِضَاعَتَهُمْ فِي رِحَالِهِمْ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَعْرِفُونَهَا إِذَا انقَلَبُواْ إِلَى أَهْلِهِمْ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْجِعُونَ {62}
[Pickthal 12:62] He said unto his young men: Place their merchandise in their saddlebags, so that they may know it when they go back to their folk, and so will come again.

فَلَمَّا رَجِعُوا إِلَى أَبِيهِمْ قَالُواْ يَا أَبَانَا مُنِعَ مِنَّا الْكَيْلُ فَأَرْسِلْ مَعَنَا أَخَانَا نَكْتَلْ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ {63}
[Pickthal 12:63] So when they went back to their father they said: O our father! The measure is denied us, so send with us our brother that we may obtain the measure, surely we will guard him well.

قَالَ هَلْ آمَنُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ إِلاَّ كَمَا أَمِنتُكُمْ عَلَى أَخِيهِ مِن قَبْلُ فَاللّهُ خَيْرٌ حَافِظًا وَهُوَ أَرْحَمُ الرَّاحِمِينَ {64}
[Pickthal 12:64] He said: Can I entrust him to you save as I entrusted his brother to you aforetime? Allah is better at guarding, and He is the Most Merciful of those who show mercy.

وَلَمَّا فَتَحُواْ مَتَاعَهُمْ وَجَدُواْ بِضَاعَتَهُمْ رُدَّتْ إِلَيْهِمْ قَالُواْ يَا أَبَانَا مَا نَبْغِي هَـذِهِ بِضَاعَتُنَا رُدَّتْ إِلَيْنَا وَنَمِيرُ أَهْلَنَا وَنَحْفَظُ أَخَانَا وَنَزْدَادُ كَيْلَ بَعِيرٍ ذَلِكَ كَيْلٌ يَسِيرٌ {65}
[Pickthal 12:65] And when they opened their belongings they discovered that their merchandise had been returned to them. They said: O our father! What (more) can we ask? Here is our merchandise returned to us. We shall get provision for our folk and guard our brother, and we shall have the extra measure of a camel (load). This (that we bring now) is a light measure.

قَالَ لَنْ أُرْسِلَهُ مَعَكُمْ حَتَّى تُؤْتُونِ مَوْثِقًا مِّنَ اللّهِ لَتَأْتُنَّنِي بِهِ إِلاَّ أَن يُحَاطَ بِكُمْ فَلَمَّا آتَوْهُ مَوْثِقَهُمْ قَالَ اللّهُ عَلَى مَا نَقُولُ وَكِيلٌ {66}
[Pickthal 12:66] He said: I will not send him with you till ye give me an undertaking in the name of Allah that ye will bring him back to me, unless ye are surrounded. And when they gave him their undertaking he said: Allah is the Warden over what we say.

وَقَالَ يَا بَنِيَّ لاَ تَدْخُلُواْ مِن بَابٍ وَاحِدٍ وَادْخُلُواْ مِنْ أَبْوَابٍ مُّتَفَرِّقَةٍ وَمَا أُغْنِي عَنكُم مِّنَ اللّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ إِنِ الْحُكْمُ إِلاَّ لِلّهِ عَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلْتُ وَعَلَيْهِ فَلْيَتَوَكَّلِ الْمُتَوَكِّلُونَ {67}
[Pickthal 12:67] And he said: O my sons! Go not in by one gate; go in by different gates. I can naught avail you as against Allah. Lo! the decision rests with Allah only. In Him do I put my trust, and in Him let all the trusting put their trust.

وَلَمَّا دَخَلُواْ مِنْ حَيْثُ أَمَرَهُمْ أَبُوهُم مَّا كَانَ يُغْنِي عَنْهُم مِّنَ اللّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ إِلاَّ حَاجَةً فِي نَفْسِ يَعْقُوبَ قَضَاهَا وَإِنَّهُ لَذُو عِلْمٍ لِّمَا عَلَّمْنَاهُ وَلَـكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ {68}
[Pickthal 12:68] And when they entered in the manner which their father had enjoined, it would have naught availed them as against Allah; it was but a need of Jacob's soul which he thus satisfied; and lo! he was a lord of knowledge because We had taught him; but most of mankind know not.

وَلَمَّا دَخَلُواْ عَلَى يُوسُفَ آوَى إِلَيْهِ أَخَاهُ قَالَ إِنِّي أَنَاْ أَخُوكَ فَلاَ تَبْتَئِسْ بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ {69}
[Pickthal 12:69] And when they went in before Joseph, he took his brother unto him, saying: Lo! I, even I, am thy brother, therefore sorrow not for what they did.

فَلَمَّا جَهَّزَهُم بِجَهَازِهِمْ جَعَلَ السِّقَايَةَ فِي رَحْلِ أَخِيهِ ثُمَّ أَذَّنَ مُؤَذِّنٌ أَيَّتُهَا الْعِيرُ إِنَّكُمْ لَسَارِقُونَ {70}
[Pickthal 12:70] And when he provided them with their provision, he put the drinking-cup in his brother's saddlebag, and then a crier cried: O camel-riders! Lo! ye are surely thieves!

قَالُواْ وَأَقْبَلُواْ عَلَيْهِم مَّاذَا تَفْقِدُونَ {71}
[Pickthal 12:71] They cried, coming toward them: What is it ye have lost?

قَالُواْ نَفْقِدُ صُوَاعَ الْمَلِكِ وَلِمَن جَاء بِهِ حِمْلُ بَعِيرٍ وَأَنَاْ بِهِ زَعِيمٌ {72}
[Pickthal 12:72] They said: We have lost the king's cup, and he who bringeth it shall have a camel-load, and I (said Joseph) am answerable for it.

قَالُواْ تَاللّهِ لَقَدْ عَلِمْتُم مَّا جِئْنَا لِنُفْسِدَ فِي الأَرْضِ وَمَا كُنَّا سَارِقِينَ {73}
[Pickthal 12:73] They said: By Allah, well ye know we came not to do evil in the land, and are no thieves.

قَالُواْ فَمَا جَزَآؤُهُ إِن كُنتُمْ كَاذِبِينَ {74}
[Pickthal 12:74] They said: And what shall be the penalty for it, if ye prove liars?

قَالُواْ جَزَآؤُهُ مَن وُجِدَ فِي رَحْلِهِ فَهُوَ جَزَاؤُهُ كَذَلِكَ نَجْزِي الظَّالِمِينَ {75}
[Pickthal 12:75] They said: The penalty for it! He in whose bag (the cup) is found, he is the penalty for it. Thus we requite wrong-doers.

فَبَدَأَ بِأَوْعِيَتِهِمْ قَبْلَ وِعَاء أَخِيهِ ثُمَّ اسْتَخْرَجَهَا مِن وِعَاء أَخِيهِ كَذَلِكَ كِدْنَا لِيُوسُفَ مَا كَانَ لِيَأْخُذَ أَخَاهُ فِي دِينِ الْمَلِكِ إِلاَّ أَن يَشَاء اللّهُ نَرْفَعُ دَرَجَاتٍ مِّن نَّشَاء وَفَوْقَ كُلِّ ذِي عِلْمٍ عَلِيمٌ {76}
[Pickthal 12:76] Then he (Joseph) began the search with their bags before his brother's bag, then he produced it from his brother's bag. Thus did We contrive for Joseph. He could not have taken his brother according to the king's law unless Allah willed. We raise by grades (of mercy) whom We will, and over every lord of knowledge there is one more knowing.

قَالُواْ إِن يَسْرِقْ فَقَدْ سَرَقَ أَخٌ لَّهُ مِن قَبْلُ فَأَسَرَّهَا يُوسُفُ فِي نَفْسِهِ وَلَمْ يُبْدِهَا لَهُمْ قَالَ أَنتُمْ شَرٌّ مَّكَانًا وَاللّهُ أَعْلَمْ بِمَا تَصِفُونَ {77}
[Pickthal 12:77] They said: If he stealeth, a brother of his stole before. But Joseph kept it secret in his soul and revealed it not unto them. He said (within himself): Ye are in worse case, and Allah knoweth best (the truth of) that which ye allege.

قَالُواْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْعَزِيزُ إِنَّ لَهُ أَبًا شَيْخًا كَبِيرًا فَخُذْ أَحَدَنَا مَكَانَهُ إِنَّا نَرَاكَ مِنَ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {78}
[Pickthal 12:78] They said: O ruler of the land! Lo! he hath a very aged father, so take one of us instead of him. Lo! we behold thee of those who do kindness.

قَالَ مَعَاذَ اللّهِ أَن نَّأْخُذَ إِلاَّ مَن وَجَدْنَا مَتَاعَنَا عِندَهُ إِنَّـا إِذًا لَّظَالِمُونَ {79}
[Pickthal 12:79] He said: Allah forbid that we should seize save him with whom we found our property; then truly we should be wrong-doers.

فَلَمَّا اسْتَيْأَسُواْ مِنْهُ خَلَصُواْ نَجِيًّا قَالَ كَبِيرُهُمْ أَلَمْ تَعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ أَبَاكُمْ قَدْ أَخَذَ عَلَيْكُم مَّوْثِقًا مِّنَ اللّهِ وَمِن قَبْلُ مَا فَرَّطتُمْ فِي يُوسُفَ فَلَنْ أَبْرَحَ الأَرْضَ حَتَّىَ يَأْذَنَ لِي أَبِي أَوْ يَحْكُمَ اللّهُ لِي وَهُوَ خَيْرُ الْحَاكِمِينَ {80}
[Pickthal 12:80] So, When they despaired of (moving) him, they conferred together apart. The eldest of them said: Know ye not how your father took an undertaking from you in Allah's name and how ye failed in the case of Joseph aforetime? Therefore I shall not go forth from the land until my father giveth leave or Allah judgeth for me. He is the Best of Judges.

ارْجِعُواْ إِلَى أَبِيكُمْ فَقُولُواْ يَا أَبَانَا إِنَّ ابْنَكَ سَرَقَ وَمَا شَهِدْنَا إِلاَّ بِمَا عَلِمْنَا وَمَا كُنَّا لِلْغَيْبِ حَافِظِينَ {81}
[Pickthal 12:81] Return unto your father and say: O our father! Lo! thy son hath stolen. We testify only to that which we know; we are not guardians of the Unseen.

وَاسْأَلِ الْقَرْيَةَ الَّتِي كُنَّا فِيهَا وَالْعِيْرَ الَّتِي أَقْبَلْنَا فِيهَا وَإِنَّا لَصَادِقُونَ {82}
[Pickthal 12:82] Ask the township where we were, and the caravan with which we travelled hither. Lo! we speak the truth.

قَالَ بَلْ سَوَّلَتْ لَكُمْ أَنفُسُكُمْ أَمْرًا فَصَبْرٌ جَمِيلٌ عَسَى اللّهُ أَن يَأْتِيَنِي بِهِمْ جَمِيعًا إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ {83}
[Pickthal 12:83] (And when they came unto their father and had spoken thus to him) he said: Nay, but your minds have beguiled you into something. (My course is) comely patience! It may be that Allah will bring them all unto me. Lo! He, only He, is the Knower, the Wise.

وَتَوَلَّى عَنْهُمْ وَقَالَ يَا أَسَفَى عَلَى يُوسُفَ وَابْيَضَّتْ عَيْنَاهُ مِنَ الْحُزْنِ فَهُوَ كَظِيمٌ {84}
[Pickthal 12:84] And he turned away from them and said: Alas, my grief for Joseph! And his eyes were whitened with the sorrow that he was suppressing.

قَالُواْ تَالله تَفْتَأُ تَذْكُرُ يُوسُفَ حَتَّى تَكُونَ حَرَضًا أَوْ تَكُونَ مِنَ الْهَالِكِينَ {85}
[Pickthal 12:85] They said: By Allah, thou wilt never cease remembering Joseph till thy health is ruined or thou art of those who perish!

قَالَ إِنَّمَا أَشْكُو بَثِّي وَحُزْنِي إِلَى اللّهِ وَأَعْلَمُ مِنَ اللّهِ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ {86}
[Pickthal 12:86] He said: I expose my distress and anguish only unto Allah, and I know from Allah that which ye know not.

يَا بَنِيَّ اذْهَبُواْ فَتَحَسَّسُواْ مِن يُوسُفَ وَأَخِيهِ وَلاَ تَيْأَسُواْ مِن رَّوْحِ اللّهِ إِنَّهُ لاَ يَيْأَسُ مِن رَّوْحِ اللّهِ إِلاَّ الْقَوْمُ الْكَافِرُونَ {87}
[Pickthal 12:87] Go, O my sons, and ascertain concerning Joseph and his brother, and despair not of the Spirit of Allah. Lo! none despaireth of the Spirit of Allah save disbelieving folk.

فَلَمَّا دَخَلُواْ عَلَيْهِ قَالُواْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْعَزِيزُ مَسَّنَا وَأَهْلَنَا الضُّرُّ وَجِئْنَا بِبِضَاعَةٍ مُّزْجَاةٍ فَأَوْفِ لَنَا الْكَيْلَ وَتَصَدَّقْ عَلَيْنَا إِنَّ اللّهَ يَجْزِي الْمُتَصَدِّقِينَ {88}
[Pickthal 12:88] And when they came (again) before him (Joseph) they said: O ruler! Misfortune hath touched us and our folk, and we bring but poor merchandise, so fill for us the measure and be charitable unto us. Lo! Allah will requite the charitable,

قَالَ هَلْ عَلِمْتُم مَّا فَعَلْتُم بِيُوسُفَ وَأَخِيهِ إِذْ أَنتُمْ جَاهِلُونَ {89}
[Pickthal 12:89] He said: Know ye what ye did unto Joseph and his brother in your ignorance?

قَالُواْ أَإِنَّكَ لَأَنتَ يُوسُفُ قَالَ أَنَاْ يُوسُفُ وَهَـذَا أَخِي قَدْ مَنَّ اللّهُ عَلَيْنَا إِنَّهُ مَن يَتَّقِ وَيِصْبِرْ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُضِيعُ أَجْرَ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {90}
[Pickthal 12:90] They said: Is it indeed thou who art Joseph? He said: I am Joseph and this is my brother. Allah hath shown us favour. Lo! he who wardeth off (evil) and endureth (findeth favour); for lo! Allah loseth not the wages of the kindly.

قَالُواْ تَاللّهِ لَقَدْ آثَرَكَ اللّهُ عَلَيْنَا وَإِن كُنَّا لَخَاطِئِينَ {91}
[Pickthal 12:91] They said: By Allah, verily Allah hath preferred thee above us, and we were indeed sinful.

قَالَ لاَ تَثْرَيبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْيَوْمَ يَغْفِرُ اللّهُ لَكُمْ وَهُوَ أَرْحَمُ الرَّاحِمِينَ {92}
[Pickthal 12:92] He said: Have no fear this day! May Allah forgive you, and He is the Most Merciful of those who show mercy.

اذْهَبُواْ بِقَمِيصِي هَـذَا فَأَلْقُوهُ عَلَى وَجْهِ أَبِي يَأْتِ بَصِيرًا وَأْتُونِي بِأَهْلِكُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ {93}
[Pickthal 12:93] Go with this shirt of mine and lay it on my father's face, he will become (again) a seer; and come to me with all your folk.

وَلَمَّا فَصَلَتِ الْعِيرُ قَالَ أَبُوهُمْ إِنِّي لَأَجِدُ رِيحَ يُوسُفَ لَوْلاَ أَن تُفَنِّدُونِ {94}
[Pickthal 12:94] When the caravan departed their father had said: Truly I am conscious of the breath of Joseph, though ye call me dotard.

قَالُواْ تَاللّهِ إِنَّكَ لَفِي ضَلاَلِكَ الْقَدِيمِ {95}
[Pickthal 12:95] (Those around him) said: By Allah, lo! thou art in thine old aberration.

فَلَمَّا أَن جَاء الْبَشِيرُ أَلْقَاهُ عَلَى وَجْهِهِ فَارْتَدَّ بَصِيرًا قَالَ أَلَمْ أَقُل لَّكُمْ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مِنَ اللّهِ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ {96}
[Pickthal 12:96] Then, when the bearer of glad tidings came, he laid it on his face and he became a seer once more. He said: Said I not unto you that I know from Allah that which ye know not?

قَالُواْ يَا أَبَانَا اسْتَغْفِرْ لَنَا ذُنُوبَنَا إِنَّا كُنَّا خَاطِئِينَ {97}
[Pickthal 12:97] They said: O our father! Ask forgiveness of our sins for us, for lo! we were sinful.

قَالَ سَوْفَ أَسْتَغْفِرُ لَكُمْ رَبِّيَ إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ {98}
[Pickthal 12:98] He said: I shall ask forgiveness for you of my Lord. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

فَلَمَّا دَخَلُواْ عَلَى يُوسُفَ آوَى إِلَيْهِ أَبَوَيْهِ وَقَالَ ادْخُلُواْ مِصْرَ إِن شَاء اللّهُ آمِنِينَ {99}
[Pickthal 12:99] And when they came in before Joseph, he took his parents unto him, and said: Come into Egypt safe, if Allah will!

وَرَفَعَ أَبَوَيْهِ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ وَخَرُّواْ لَهُ سُجَّدًا وَقَالَ يَا أَبَتِ هَـذَا تَأْوِيلُ رُؤْيَايَ مِن قَبْلُ قَدْ جَعَلَهَا رَبِّي حَقًّا وَقَدْ أَحْسَنَ بَي إِذْ أَخْرَجَنِي مِنَ السِّجْنِ وَجَاء بِكُم مِّنَ الْبَدْوِ مِن بَعْدِ أَن نَّزغَ الشَّيْطَانُ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ إِخْوَتِي إِنَّ رَبِّي لَطِيفٌ لِّمَا يَشَاء إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ {100}
[Pickthal 12:100] And he placed his parents on the dais and they fell down before him prostrate, and he said: O my father! This is the interpretation of my dream of old. My Lord hath made it true, and He hath shown me kindness, since He took me out of the prison and hath brought you from the desert after Satan had made strife between me and my brethren. Lo! my Lord is tender unto whom He will. He is the Knower, the Wise.

رَبِّ قَدْ آتَيْتَنِي مِنَ الْمُلْكِ وَعَلَّمْتَنِي مِن تَأْوِيلِ الأَحَادِيثِ فَاطِرَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ أَنتَ وَلِيِّي فِي الدُّنُيَا وَالآخِرَةِ تَوَفَّنِي مُسْلِمًا وَأَلْحِقْنِي بِالصَّالِحِينَ {101}
[Pickthal 12:101] O my Lord! Thou hast given me (something) of sovereignty and hast taught me (something) of the interpretation of events - Creator of the heavens and the earth! Thou art my Protecting Guardian in the world and the Hereafter. Make me to die muslim (unto Thee), and join me to the righteous.

ذَلِكَ مِنْ أَنبَاء الْغَيْبِ نُوحِيهِ إِلَيْكَ وَمَا كُنتَ لَدَيْهِمْ إِذْ أَجْمَعُواْ أَمْرَهُمْ وَهُمْ يَمْكُرُونَ {102}
[Pickthal 12:102] This is of the tidings of the Unseen which We inspire in thee (Muhammad). Thou wast not present with them when they fixed their plan and they were scheming.

وَمَا أَكْثَرُ النَّاسِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتَ بِمُؤْمِنِينَ {103}
[Pickthal 12:103] And though thou try much, most men will not believe.

وَمَا تَسْأَلُهُمْ عَلَيْهِ مِنْ أَجْرٍ إِنْ هُوَ إِلاَّ ذِكْرٌ لِّلْعَالَمِينَ {104}
[Pickthal 12:104] Thou askest them no fee for it. It is naught else than a reminder unto the peoples.

وَكَأَيِّن مِّن آيَةٍ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ يَمُرُّونَ عَلَيْهَا وَهُمْ عَنْهَا مُعْرِضُونَ {105}
[Pickthal 12:105] How many a portent is there in the heavens and the earth which they pass by with face averted!

وَمَا يُؤْمِنُ أَكْثَرُهُمْ بِاللّهِ إِلاَّ وَهُم مُّشْرِكُونَ {106}
[Pickthal 12:106] And most of them believe not in Allah except that they attribute partners (unto Him).

أَفَأَمِنُواْ أَن تَأْتِيَهُمْ غَاشِيَةٌ مِّنْ عَذَابِ اللّهِ أَوْ تَأْتِيَهُمُ السَّاعَةُ بَغْتَةً وَهُمْ لاَ يَشْعُرُونَ {107}
[Pickthal 12:107] Deem they themselves secure from the coming on them of a pall of Allah's punishment, or the coming of the Hour suddenly while they are unaware?

قُلْ هَـذِهِ سَبِيلِي أَدْعُو إِلَى اللّهِ عَلَى بَصِيرَةٍ أَنَاْ وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِي وَسُبْحَانَ اللّهِ وَمَا أَنَاْ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ {108}
[Pickthal 12:108] Say: This is my Way: I call on Allah with sure knowledge. I and whosoever followeth me - Glory be to Allah! - and I am not of the idolaters.

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ إِلاَّ رِجَالاً نُّوحِي إِلَيْهِم مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْقُرَى أَفَلَمْ يَسِيرُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ فَيَنظُرُواْ كَيْفَ كَانَ عَاقِبَةُ الَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ وَلَدَارُ الآخِرَةِ خَيْرٌ لِّلَّذِينَ اتَّقَواْ أَفَلاَ تَعْقِلُونَ {109}
[Pickthal 12:109] We sent not before thee (any messengers) save men whom We inspired from among the folk of the townships - Have they not travelled in the land and seen the nature of the consequence for those who were before them? And verily the abode of the Hereafter, for those who ward off (evil), is best. Have ye then no sense? -

حَتَّى إِذَا اسْتَيْأَسَ الرُّسُلُ وَظَنُّواْ أَنَّهُمْ قَدْ كُذِبُواْ جَاءهُمْ نَصْرُنَا فَنُجِّيَ مَن نَّشَاء وَلاَ يُرَدُّ بَأْسُنَا عَنِ الْقَوْمِ الْمُجْرِمِينَ {110}
[Pickthal 12:110] Till, when the messengers despaired and thought that they were denied, then came unto them Our help, and whom We would was saved. And Our wrath cannot be warded from the guilty.

لَقَدْ كَانَ فِي قَصَصِهِمْ عِبْرَةٌ لِّأُوْلِي الأَلْبَابِ مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَى وَلَـكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ {111}
[Pickthal 12:111] In their history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It is no invented story but a confirmation of the existing (Scripture) and a detailed explanation of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for folk who believe.


*****
The Death of Jacob and Joseph (PBUT)
Before he died, Jacob advised his children to adhere to the teachings of Islam, the religion of all of Allah's prophets. Allah the Almighty revealed: Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob? When he said unto his sons: "What will you worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship your Ilah (God - Allah) the Ilah (God) of your fathers. Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, One Ilah (God), and to Him we submit (in Islam)." Surah 2: 133

Joseph , at the moment of his death, asked his brothers to bury him beside his forefathers if they were to leave Egypt. So when Joseph passed away, he was mummified and placed in a coffin until such a time as he could be taken out of Egypt and buried beside his forefathers, as he had requested. It was said that he died at the age of one hundred ten.

That is what we know of his burial.... unless you want to make up a story.... in which case we ask you....... do you have DNA evidence that the deceased at the site you claim is indeed Joseph PBUH? please consider what you are saying........Again whereas I know Most Jews AND CHRISTIANS have no reverence for Prophet Mohammed PBUH us Muslims HAVE REVERENCE AND RESPECT FOR ALL OF GOD'S PROPHETS.....
Reply

therebbe
10-10-2006, 03:20 AM
us Muslims HAVE REVERENCE AND RESPECT FOR ALL OF GOD'S PROPHETS.....
Yet you destroy his grave.

Again whereas I know Most Jews AND CHRISTIANS have no reverence for Prophet Mohammed PBUH
I was taught respect. Repsect means to not destroy a place holy to others like which was done to the Jews. Yet the Jews allow ou to continue to pray whenever you wish in Israel... Sad.
Reply

جوري
10-10-2006, 03:26 AM
You must have skimmed over the entire post.......
I don't know whose grave is being vandelized if at all BUT IT ISN'T JOSEPH (pbuh)....... In fact I challenge and dare you to provide me with undisputable evidence that it is his grave......
secondly I don't like this reprehensible manner with which you address me..... NO one here would condone desecrating a grave much less that of a holy messanger...... so I don't understand this "You" with which you address me..... or us....... this sort of thing can work maybe on your own blogs where people would agree with you not investigating the ludicrous allegations you make.... probably weeping over the grave of a zionist.....
Israel is Jacob for the umpteenth time....... you are the uninvited guests....... even if the land were "YOURS" A PERSON PRAYS WHERE EVER.... it is all God's earth not your allowance to make!!!!!!!!
Reply

rubiesand
10-10-2006, 08:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
Yet you destroy his grave.

As if all Muslims were just one person. As if by accusing the people on this forum, you are accusing the vandals. How would you like it if someone denies you your individuality and accuses you of oppression against innocent people while you claim to be humble and non violent?
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aamirsaab
10-10-2006, 08:34 AM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by rubiesand
As if all Muslims were just one person. As if by accusing the people on this forum, you are accusing the vandals. How would you like it if someone denies you your individuality and accuses you of oppression against innocent people while you claim to be humble and non violent?
This comment could also be said about the following: germans, iraqis, jews, negros, caucasions. It's a method of grouping - much easier to say a group of people is responsible than it is to pick out an individual given the fact that people nowadays are often bombarded with "muslim" oppressors or whatnot.

In therebe's defence, however, I can understand why he feels that way: anger and frustration, emotions that almost anyone can relate to (well, apart from the dead :p).

I personally think we should try to take this comment seriously, and others too, and see if we can come up with a solution that will provide a satisfactory outcome which'd benefit us all.

One possible solution would be to get into contact with the palestinian leader and have a meeting of some sort - preferably without an army following closely behind, and even more preferably, in a neutral zone (i.e neither palestine or israel). I do hope that one day, we shall all have our place of worship - free from political bull and all the rest.
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Zulkiflim
10-10-2006, 08:58 AM
Salaam,

the rebbe seem to not want to prove that the grave is Prophet Joseph as

But again,it is wrong to vandalise any grave,it is disrecpectuful.

But let see how the Isreal respect muslim graves

Israel plans to build 'museum of tolerance' on Muslim graves
By Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem
Published: 09 February 2006

Skeletons are being removed from the site of an ancient Muslim cemetery in Jerusalem to make way for a $150m (£86m) "museum of tolerance" being built for the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Centre.

Palestinians have launched a legal battle to stop the work at what was the city's main Muslim cemetery. The work is to prepare for the construction of a museum which seeks the promotion of "unity and respect among Jews and between people of all faiths".

So rebbe,do you approve of such things?
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therebbe
10-10-2006, 08:39 PM
I don't know whose grave is being vandelized if at all BUT IT ISN'T JOSEPH
Jews believe it is... Just because you do not believe something, that doesn't mean you should not show respect. I don't believe Muhommad or Mecca is anything special? Does that mean I should disrespect it.

So rebbe,do you approve of such things?
Of course I do not. I don't approve on building on any graves. Yet you defend and condone the destruction of Jewish ones. Hypocrite.
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united
10-10-2006, 08:47 PM
can i have a news source about this incident please?
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AHMED_GUREY
10-10-2006, 08:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
I am a pious Jew, and Jews let Muslims pray on our temple mount every friday, and we allow you to pray in any mosque in Israel.

Why not let me and the humble Jews who wish no violence to pray in the tomb of Joseph or at least visit? It ended up being razed by Arab vandals.

The sacred Jewish site regarded as the grave of the biblical patriarch Joseph has been turned into a pile of rubble by Arab vandalsm, and I just wish to know why. :cry: That is all... If we would have razed the gravesite of one of the founders of Islam, billions of Muslims would have taken to the streets. :cry:

Why did you do this to one of our holy sites? It was a place I would have wanted to take my children to.

Can you please explain, or at least condemn the action as one that does not represent your feelings. I'm having a lot of disapointment right now, much more so then anger. :cry:

If Muslims got Jerusalem back, would we be granted prayer at the Western Wall, just like we grant you prayer on the temple mount? Under Arab rule before we were not granted any access to pray.
link

therebbe are you aware of this?
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therebbe
10-10-2006, 08:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
link

therebbe are you aware of this?
I already said I believe it to be wrong, and I am aware of it... while you all continue to condone and defend actions done to a holy place for Jews.
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InToTheRain
10-10-2006, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
You must have skimmed over the entire post.......
I don't know whose grave is being vandelized if at all BUT IT ISN'T JOSEPH (pbuh)....... In fact I challenge and dare you to provide me with undisputable evidence that it is his grave......
secondly I don't like this reprehensible manner with which you address me..... NO one here would condone desecrating a grave much less that of a holy messanger...... so I don't understand this "You" with which you address me..... or us....... this sort of thing can work maybe on your own blogs where people would agree with you not investigating the ludicrous allegations you make.... probably weeping over the grave of a zionist.....
Israel is Jacob for the umpteenth time....... you are the uninvited guests....... even if the land were "YOURS" A PERSON PRAYS WHERE EVER.... it is all God's earth not your allowance to make!!!!!!!!
:thumbs_up
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*noor
10-10-2006, 09:06 PM
therebbe i really think that you need to get your facts straight.
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united
10-10-2006, 09:07 PM
hey the rebbe can i have a link please?
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AHMED_GUREY
10-10-2006, 09:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
I already said I believe it to be wrong, and I am aware of it... while you all continue to condone and defend actions done to a holy place for Jews.
Muslim have respected Jewish holy places for centuries

the palistinian spokes person to the UN called that incident a regrettable one

20 palistinians were killed on that site and it might have been an act of retaliation
Reply

جوري
10-10-2006, 09:28 PM
Written by a Jew about Muslims the caretakers of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher & other holy sites...

"As you might imagine a city with as great importance as that of Jerusalem, in which three religions take root, friendships have lasted thousands of years. For those who only know of decades of conflict, which is more significant?

I believe the caretakers were originally the Nuseibeh family and they were assited in more recent years by the Joudeh family -both muslim families. It might be of additional interest to note that several synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem were similarly held under the protectorship of muslim families as well during times of conflict. I have personally met some of these decendants and I know jews in the city are very much indebted to them for this sacred service their families have provided for multiple generations.

There are countless examples of peace and coexistance and acts of respect and even love between the average citizens of this city - as there has been for thousands of years. It is only the contemporary leaders or more acurately the profiteers of conflict (in which power is gained and concentrated during chaos) who stand in the way of true peace."
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therebbe
10-10-2006, 09:31 PM
The sacred Jewish site regarded as the grave of the biblical patriarch Joseph has been turned into a pile of rubble by Arab vandals, according to Israeli officials.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon confirmed Sunday that the large stone marking the grave was destroyed some time during the past two weeks, the Israeli News Network said.


Destroyed gravestone at traditional burial site for biblical patriarch Joseph.
Minister Natan Sharansky wants the foreign ministry to publicize photos of the desecrated site, which is in the Palestinian Authority-controlled town of Nablus, the biblical Shechem.
"If we would have razed the gravesite of one of the founders of Islam, billions of Muslims would have taken to the streets," Sharansky said. "It's inconceivable that the world should not know about this travesty."
The Oslo Accords put the site under Israeli jurisdiction, but on Oct. 7, 2000, then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak ordered a unilateral retreat, based on a Palestinian agreement to protect the site.
But within hours, smoke was seen billowing from the tomb as a crowd burned Jewish prayer books and other articles. With pickaxes and hammers they began to tear apart the stone building. Two days later the dome of the tomb had been painted green and bulldozers were clearing the area.
Israeli authority was restored to the site during last April's Operation Defensive Shield, but Israeli worshippers are not allowed to visit and it is not regularly guarded.


Building at Joseph's Tomb site after Palestinian Authority took control.
Members of the Hassidic Breslover sect have been arrested in attempts to reach the tomb.
The Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva, a Jewish center for learning that was closed down at the time of the initial Israeli retreat, issued a press release last week demanding the "immediate safeguarding" of the tomb. The center also asked that it be allowed to reopen its doors on the site.
Yehuda Liebman, the head of Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva, told the Jerusalem Post that while the attacks have become more severe, the grave had always been left intact.
Israeli government spokesman Ra'anan Gissin said that the government will find a way to protect the site.

The Israeli news agency Arutz-7 News reports Israel Defense Forces is interested in restoring a Jewish civilian presence to Joseph's Tomb.
"Army officers requested that the government enable Jews to pray and study there, as they did before the Oslo War, but the government did not do so," Lt.-Col. Rabbi Avi Ronsky said.

Gissin said the desecration "shows the moral bankruptcy of the Palestinian Authority and points to the critical need for a change in leadership." Israeli archeologists say they have convincing documentation of the site's authenticity, dating to biblical times. The book of Joshua says, according to the New International Version, "Joseph's bones, which the Israelites had brought up from Egypt, were buried at Shechem in the tract of land that Jacob bought for a hundred pieces of silver from the sons of Hamor, the father of Shechem. This became the inheritance of Joseph's descendants."

worldnet
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جوري
10-10-2006, 09:33 PM
propagandaish BS
Joseph (PBUH) is burried in Egypt ......
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united
10-10-2006, 09:35 PM
in 2003?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=31203
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therebbe
10-10-2006, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
propagandaish BS
Joseph (PBUH) is burried in Egypt ......
I respect your belief. How about respecting mine.

Do I not have the right to take my children to a holy place without fear of being kidnaped or killed???? I believe Muslims have that right, yet you all dismiss my claims as BS.

I have gotten all the information I need of your opinions. Feel however you want. And represent yourselves how you wish.

format_quote Originally Posted by united
I brought it up because I wanted to take my children there when we go to Israel.
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جوري
10-10-2006, 09:49 PM
You don't respect my belief...... if you did you wouldn't be constantly pointing your accusing finger as we have vandalized the place ... well known fact if they want to go public with this, it will be challenged as historically inaccurate... besides the patriarchs as in Jacob and Abraham are buried in a town called Khalil, even if he were to be next to them there... those aren't the sites mentioned above!....
This is just an attempt by Zionists to steal more land from the Palestinians and claim it for "religious" sanctities... Only the ignorant world believes it ... if anyone knows any fundamental thing about Islam or Muslims is that they would never destroy a grave site belonging to a messenger...... so there is your biggest dent in that theory all together!
And please don't speak to me about how Palis are treated... I get my news sources in places other than fox news....
what did the Ramadan Mous'harati do to Israel that he should be killed for waking people up for fajr prayer time?
that was just the latest.......
Reply

therebbe
10-10-2006, 09:57 PM
You don't respect my belief...... if you did you wouldn't be constantly pointing your accusing finger as we have vandalized the place ...
I'm not accusing any of you for anything more then condoning vandals.

All I wanted to know was why this was happening. All the responses I get are "this is BS", "not Josephs grave" ect... Not interested in arguing. I don't believe in desecrating graves and I do not condone jews that do.

I have actual respect for others faiths.

Discussion over. I have all the info I needed now....

You can continue with your accusations. I just hope you don't represent all Muslims with your claims of "zionist lies" whenever a Muslim may be at fault for destroying something precious to me.

Have a good life. Maybe you will find peace one day.

אנשים בורים
Reply

united
10-10-2006, 10:16 PM
number one. i think that we are all sorry for what happened THREE years ago. we can not all be held responsible for the fustrations of other muslims. and who can blame them? their land has been overtaken by people with a far mightier army and they dont know what to do. the act was cowardly and as i said, we apologise.
number two. why bring this up now? and make it sound as if it has been a recent occurance?
jews have traditionally been given a place of respect by islam and muslims (apart from a brief period by the fatimids), but when the jews decide to take advantage... well we all know that things will not be the same for a long while.
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جوري
10-10-2006, 10:17 PM
I think this is the view of most if not all Muslims ... as no Muslim I know would knowingly destroy the grave of a messenger... In my heart I believe you too have your doubts as to whether or not this really is his resting place! ... you are missing the fundamental basic belief that this couldn't be Joseph's grave........ as he is "precious" to you..... he is "precious" to us and I am sure to the Christians....... You will not find Muslims making toOns or mock drawings of the messenger along with the loads of derogatory remarks and billion hateful books popping out...... it is simply out of character..... it isn't done!..... a CARDINAL SIN.....

I am at peace ... thank you for the warm wishes......
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therebbe
10-10-2006, 10:20 PM
Alright so this is the case.

Judaism believes he was burried in Israel.
Islam believes he was buried in Egypt.

I would never destroy the place you thought he was buried, out of respect for you.

The place I believe he was buried has been desecrated, and I am not aloud to pray and take my children there because of fear of being killed.
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united
10-10-2006, 10:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
Alright so this is the case.

Judaism believes he was burried in Israel.
Islam believes he was buried in Egypt.

I would never destroy the place you thought he was buried, out of respect for you.

The place I believe he was buried has been desecrated, and I am not aloud to pray and take my children there because of fear of being killed.
would you like to guees why they may want to kill you?
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therebbe
10-10-2006, 10:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by united
would you like to guees why they may want to kill you?
Because I am a Jew.

Wait, before you say it is because of Israel... Maybe we can go by the logic of... Can you guess why an American would want to kill a Muslim...9/11(i don't believe it, trying to make a point) ... Is it not the same logic on your part? So maybe you shouldn't start to justufy them wanting to kill me.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-10-2006, 11:57 PM
Therebbe no one here agrees with what is going on. But look carefully at ur posts. Whether u mean to or not, ur still telling us like we had part in it. Maybe u should rephrase ur sentences.
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Zulkiflim
10-11-2006, 07:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
Because I am a Jew.

Wait, before you say it is because of Israel... Maybe we can go by the logic of... Can you guess why an American would want to kill a Muslim...9/11(i don't believe it, trying to make a point) ... Is it not the same logic on your part? So maybe you shouldn't start to justufy them wanting to kill me.
Salaam,

You are hated not becasue of your race,but becasue of your actions.

Did arab or muslim seek your death before Israel ,NO?

Muslim world have cared for the Jews even when you were persecuted by christians in the world history.

And the US already know why the world hates it,they just dont wnat to accept it.

Saddam supported by the US
Iranian Shah supported by the US.
Many more nation with US proxy who torture and oppress their own people all with US aid.
Even now with US aid,the Somalia who now after 16 years of war and strife have peace,but the US are fighting them.

So if you kill and hate,you will be sought to be killed and will be hated back.

It is right for Israel to have self defence but other coutnries cant?
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أحمد
10-11-2006, 07:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
I am a pious Jew, and Jews let Muslims pray on our temple mount every friday, and we allow you to pray in any mosque in Israel.

Why not let me and the humble Jews who wish no violence to pray in the tomb of Joseph or at least visit? It ended up being razed by Arab vandals.

The sacred Jewish site regarded as the grave of the biblical patriarch Joseph has been turned into a pile of rubble by Arab vandalsm, and I just wish to know why. :cry: That is all... If we would have razed the gravesite of one of the founders of Islam, billions of Muslims would have taken to the streets. :cry:

Why did you do this to one of our holy sites? It was a place I would have wanted to take my children to.

Can you please explain, or at least condemn the action as one that does not represent your feelings. I'm having a lot of disapointment right now, much more so then anger. :cry:

If Muslims got Jerusalem back, would we be granted prayer at the Western Wall, just like we grant you prayer on the temple mount? Under Arab rule before we were not granted any access to pray.
Firstly, I personally don't think anyone on this forum is responsible for the destruction of those holy sites. I know I'm not, I've never been to Palestine.

Secondly, I know how common it is amongst narrow minded, media controlled people to point the finger at people who were no where near the place where this took place. Just like 911. In my school, WE had a discussion, where one Islamaphobic teacher asked the muslim students in the class: "Why did you crash those planes...?". So it is nothing new for people who have no respect for the religion of Islam and Muslims to throw up such remarks.

Yet you defend and condone the destruction of Jewish ones. Hypocrite.
Just read your posts, and you'll see who really is a hypocrite. And what do you have to say about people who get ideas for new fake holy lands all the time.

As for what would happen if Muslims got Jerusalem back, you can take a look into history, the few centuries that 'christians' ruled Jerusalem, Jews were oppressed by them, when Muslims ruled from 7th century CE to 11th CE, Everyone was treated well, and then oppression started again once the 'christians' took over again. Also, when Muslims fled from europe, Jews went with them, because the new rulers under the reign of pope Urban II believed that it was their "duty to wipe out monotheism from the face of Earch", at the time those present christians were still known as polytheists. Later on they made up a new theological system inwhich they could classify themselves as monotheists, but thats another topic intself.

So when you point the finger of guilt, think first about what you say.
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أحمد
10-11-2006, 08:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
I already said I believe it to be wrong, and I am aware of it... while you all continue to condone and defend actions done to a holy place for Jews.
I do not say it is right for anyone to destroy anyones holy sites, even if they are fake. By the way, how do you know who actually vandalised the places? Did they leave their biographies behind or something? Or did you get it from the unreliable MEDIA. Even if they were arabs, how can you garrentee they were Muslims? I'm sure there's more than just Muslims and Jews around there.
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aamirsaab
10-11-2006, 08:00 AM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by Zulkiflim

You are hated not becasue of your race,but becasue of your actions.
He hasn't done anything yet. Certain people of his religion may have (just like certain muslims like to go on random killing sprees), but that doesn't mean everyone of his religion is. Enough with the group hating and/or collective guilt already. I hate it when it happens to muslims and I hate it even more when muslims do it to others.
Muslim world have cared for the Jews even when you were persecuted by christians in the world history.
Muslims still do care. It's part of Islam to care for thy neighbour, thy brother
and all of God's creations.

It is right for Israel to have self defence but other coutnries cant?
He's not saying that. Therebe is simply asking why he is denied his right to access his religion's sacred site without first being shot at. It's a simple question, but for some bizarre reason has been, on this thread, met by negativity - which is really beginning to tick me off.
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Ninth_Scribe
10-11-2006, 04:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
Of course I do not. I don't approve on building on any graves. Yet you defend and condone the destruction of Jewish ones. Hypocrite.
I'm really sick of all these accusations! For this I'm going to share with you what caused my head-on collision with Zarqawi. I was searching in Iraq for Ezra's tomb, which I located in a town named after him, Al Uzayr. The Shia had built a beautiful shrine over it to house the tomb. I have pictures of it, and most of the records.

Because I heard the reports in western media about Zarqawi (his supposed hatred for the Jews and the Shia for bowing to them), I thought for sure he'd blow the tomb up if he ever found out about it. The tomb of a Jewish scribe that is honored by the Shia? He could have killed two birds with one stone if that's what he wanted. Imagine my surprize when I found out he had known about this tomb all along!

I know they blamed him for the bombing of the Askyara mosque in Samarra but I don't buy that BS for a minute considering the tomb of Ezra would have been a far more desirable target... yet he never put a hand on it.

If he represents the worst of Muslims to you... it isn't Muslims who are behind the desecration of graves.

Ninth Scribe
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therebbe
10-11-2006, 06:56 PM
And what about the wedding Zarqawi blew up?
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Keltoi
10-11-2006, 07:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
And what about the wedding Zarqawi blew up?
Zarqawi is Ninth Scribes hero....didn't you know that?
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Ninth_Scribe
10-11-2006, 08:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by therebbe
And what about the wedding Zarqawi blew up?
Zarqawi didn't blow a wedding up. His Mujahideen were ordered to attack a specified high value target, and one of his men lost it and went into the wedding party.

We have soldiers who disobey directives as well (they killed civilians and raped women), but we didn't order them to that either.

Ninth Scribe
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Keltoi
10-11-2006, 08:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
Zarqawi didn't blow a wedding up. His Mujahideen were ordered to attack a specified high value target, and one of his men lost it and went into the wedding party.

We have soldiers who disobey directives as well (they killed civilians and raped women), but we didn't order them to that either.

Ninth Scribe
How do you know what Zarqawi's "Mujahideen" were ordered to do? This should be interesting.
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Ninth_Scribe
10-11-2006, 08:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
How do you know what Zarqawi's "Mujahideen" were ordered to do? This should be interesting.
Off topic - thank heavens!

Ninth Scribe
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