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Mohsin
10-20-2006, 11:18 PM
:sl:

My brother goes to a private school, which is kind of at the back of a church. Ok my bro prays there sometimes. This other non-muslim girl also goes to the school and saw them praying, and apparently said "If it was a nmosque, they wouldn't let us pray, so why are they allowed to pray here". So my bro and his mates are kinda in the dog huse now and may be no longer allowed to pray there cos its a church.

iA they are going to sort something out, as in get a seperate room etc, but my question is, is it true non-muslims are not allowed in a mosque. I'm sure this is not right, I recall some hadith where the prophet pbuh was in a discussion wuth christians, and when the time came the christians started praying in the msoque and the prophet pbuh permitted it. does anybody know the full hadith so i can show it to this non-muslim??

Jk khairun
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Ansar Al-'Adl
10-21-2006, 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by IslamToday
Al-Bukhârî gives a chapter of his Sahîh the following title: “Unbelievers Entering the Mosque”. In this chapter, he cites the hadîth where the Prophet (peace be upon him) confined Thumâmah b. Athâl in the mosque.

It is impossible for anyone to overlook the fact that the polytheists would enter the mosque in order to accept Islam or to hear the Message from the Prophet (peace be upon him) or to argue or for some need, as was the case with the Christian delegation from Najrân. They spent a good number of days camped out in a corner of the mosque. Also, the Christian Ethiopians engaged in spear play in the mosque in the presence of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his Companions.
Originally Posted by IslamQA
There is nothing wrong with non-Muslims entering the mosque if it is for a legitimate shar’i purpose or for a permissible reason, such as listening to lessons or drinking water, etc., because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) let some of the non-Muslim delegations stay in his mosque, so that they could see the people praying and listen to his recitation of Qur’aan and his sermons, and so that they could call them to Allaah from close at hand. And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) tied up Thumaamah ibn Athaal al-Hanafi in the mosque when he was brought to him as a prisoner of war, and Allaah guided him and he became a Muslim. And Allaah is the Source of strength.
From Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah li Samaahat al-Shaykh al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 8, p.356
But with regard to groups of tourists entering mosques just to look around, accompanied by woman who are improperly dressed and carrying cameras, who enter mosques without respect, this is a great wrong which should not be allowed. And Allaah is the One Whose help we seek.

:w:
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GARY
11-07-2006, 07:59 AM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
:sl:

My brother goes to a private school, which is kind of at the back of a church. Ok my bro prays there sometimes. This other non-muslim girl also goes to the school and saw them praying, and apparently said "If it was a nmosque, they wouldn't let us pray, so why are they allowed to pray here". So my bro and his mates are kinda in the dog huse now and may be no longer allowed to pray there cos its a church.

iA they are going to sort something out, as in get a seperate room etc, but my question is, is it true non-muslims are not allowed in a mosque. I'm sure this is not right, I recall some hadith where the prophet pbuh was in a discussion wuth christians, and when the time came the christians started praying in the msoque and the prophet pbuh permitted it. does anybody know the full hadith so i can show it to this non-muslim??

Jk khairun
The problem seemed to stem from doing muslim prayers in the church. So the question to be fair, should be about whether or not a christian or other faith besides a muslim, would be permitted to do their prayers or other religious rituals inside a mosque.
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Mohsin
11-07-2006, 08:07 AM
Originally Posted by GARY
The problem seemed to stem from doing muslim prayers in the church. So the question to be fair, should be about whether or not a christian or other faith besides a muslim, would be permitted to do their prayers or other religious rituals inside a mosque.
There is a hadithwhere the prophet pbuh was in discussion with christians in the mosque and then the christians stopped to pray there and the prophet pbuh let them

i have asked one of my local imaams about whether christians are allowed inside. the sheikh said of course, so many non-muslims come here to convert and give shahada. in fact the very day b4 i asked him there were 2 memebers from the local church invited to have iftaar with the mosque

anway he said christians are allowed to come in as long as they are clean, and if they want to do du'a (supplication) then they are free to. they are not however allowed to bring crosses or pictures of jesus or anything like that

he said he doesnt understand why the church doesnt allow the muslism to pray, they are only going to do salah, not preach or have pictures of the ka'bah or anything like that put up.
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Umar001
11-07-2006, 08:10 AM
I didnt even know Muslims can pray in a Church, I read something about even entering a place with pictures and so on, so I don't get it, thats why Im keeping away from church.
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GARY
11-07-2006, 08:11 AM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
he said he doesnt understand why the church doesnt allow the muslism to pray, they are only going to do salah, not preach or have pictures of the ka'bah or anything like that put up.
My understanding is that this differs from church to church. I think it is an individual church thing.
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Mohsin
11-07-2006, 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by GARY
My understanding is that this differs from church to church. I think it is an individual church thing.
yes i also think that. i knwo of many churches who do allow muslims to pray there. the same is true probably of mosques as well.
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Woodrow
11-07-2006, 01:58 PM
Before I moved to Austin, sometimes it was difficult for me to get to the Mosque. I used to pray in the local Methodist Church. The pastor knew I was Muslim and so did all of the members. It did not present any problems. The UMC do not use any pictures or statues in their church so except for the pews it is very plain and simple with no distracting art work.
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Pk_#2
11-07-2006, 02:25 PM
Churches around me have pictures all around them,

i can also go in there whenever i like,

and vice versa, non-muslims go to our mosque but they don't pray there just talk to the imam and that,

once ma headteacher went, one of the brothers gave her a translation of the Quran hehe

hoping to convert her i think, :)

buh anyways TC
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Umar001
11-07-2006, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by tasmiyah_B
Churches around me have pictures all around them,

i can also go in there whenever i like,

and vice versa, non-muslims go to our mosque but they don't pray there just talk to the imam and that,

once ma headteacher went, one of the brothers gave her a translation of the Quran hehe

hoping to convert her i think, :)

buh anyways TC
And was she dressed properly?
Reply

Dawud_uk
11-07-2006, 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
:sl:

My brother goes to a private school, which is kind of at the back of a church. Ok my bro prays there sometimes. This other non-muslim girl also goes to the school and saw them praying, and apparently said "If it was a nmosque, they wouldn't let us pray, so why are they allowed to pray here". So my bro and his mates are kinda in the dog huse now and may be no longer allowed to pray there cos its a church.

iA they are going to sort something out, as in get a seperate room etc, but my question is, is it true non-muslims are not allowed in a mosque. I'm sure this is not right, I recall some hadith where the prophet pbuh was in a discussion wuth christians, and when the time came the christians started praying in the msoque and the prophet pbuh permitted it. does anybody know the full hadith so i can show it to this non-muslim??

Jk khairun
assalaamu alaykum,

we a local deacon who comes into our masjid and prays like we do in the line with us. he is however a trinitarian christian and the alim who imam of the masjid said although he is not muslim the saff is still complete as we should treat him kindly and is like having a pillar between you and the next brother.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
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Pk_#2
11-07-2006, 06:16 PM
AsalamuAlaykum bro,

well she dresses in a well manner all the time, :wub: lol

Buh one of the students put a head scarf on her, she doesn't usually wear one, and she looked soo pretty lol

well yeah she did, dress properly,

Any lutonians here?

well she went to madina mosque and it's well small there, buh they gave her a tour, even gave her free books from the mosque library, and she seemed to like it :)
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Grace Seeker
11-08-2006, 06:21 AM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

we a local deacon who comes into our masjid and prays like we do in the line with us. he is however a trinitarian christian and the alim who imam of the masjid said although he is not muslim the saff is still complete as we should treat him kindly and is like having a pillar between you and the next brother.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
hahahaha

I guess I have been a pillar a time or two myself then. For though a Christian, I found that I was always welcome to pray when I went to mosque with my Muslim daughter. And she was always welcome to pray when she went to church with me. We even celebrated Ramadan together and she had a role in the church youth's Christmas play.
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syilla
11-08-2006, 07:22 AM
^^^wow...you went to the mosque with your muslim daughter...

is you daughter married btw...

sorry if i asked too much....

not that i want to marry your daughter hehe....
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Grace Seeker
11-08-2006, 07:26 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
^^^wow...you went to the mosque with your muslim daughter...

is you daughter married btw...

sorry if i asked too much....

not that i want to marry your daughter hehe....

Of course I would. She is my daughter. I love her and support her in all things.

No, she is not married. And she plans to only marry a Muslim. Though I have known her to date non-Muslims. But, right now I don't think she is seriously looking.

And may I ask why you seem surprised that I would go to a mosque with her?
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syilla
11-08-2006, 07:38 AM
i'm not surprised... it just seem wonderful...i said wow ain't i... :)

p/s:- sorry if i'm being off topics...

btw...i'm a sister...i'm just making a joke :P
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Grace Seeker
11-08-2006, 07:54 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
i'm not surprised... it just seem wonderful...i said wow ain't i... :)

p/s:- sorry if i'm being off topics...

btw...i'm a sister...i'm just making a joke :P

It's cool. As you said, I didn't think you were wanting to marry my daughter, especially since I did see that you were a sister.

Also, I actually enjoyed my visits to the mosque. While the brothers on either side of me and I may have some different beliefs, I still believe that we were praying to the same God and I was glad to be able to pray with them. On one occassion I happened to be at the mosque on a Friday night around prayer time, just to chat with the Imam. So, even though my daughter wasn't present, I still went ahead and joined in the prayers.
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north_malaysian
11-08-2006, 08:24 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
It's cool. As you said, I didn't think you were wanting to marry my daughter, especially since I did see that you were a sister.

Also, I actually enjoyed my visits to the mosque. While the brothers on either side of me and I may have some different beliefs, I still believe that we were praying to the same God and I was glad to be able to pray with them. On one occassion I happened to be at the mosque on a Friday night around prayer time, just to chat with the Imam. So, even though my daughter wasn't present, I still went ahead and joined in the prayers.
It's good to know that you're supportive of your daughter.

But .. just curious... how did you 'pray' with the Muslims?:rollseyes
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Grace Seeker
11-08-2006, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
It's good to know that you're supportive of your daughter.

But .. just curious... how did you 'pray' with the Muslims?:rollseyes

I accompanied some of the men who invited me to join them in line. I then copied their form standing, kneeling, bowing when they did. Though I do not understand any Arabic, the major points of the service had been explained to me before hand, and I tried to worship God by keeping my focus on his greatness and declaring such in my prayers. You know many of us Christians have a saying that I think most Muslims would also find fitting:

"God is good; all the time.
All the time; God is good."

Another common Christian expression is simply to say: "God is great!"
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north_malaysian
11-08-2006, 08:49 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I accompanied some of the men who invited me to join them in line. I then copied their form standing, kneeling, bowing when they did. Though I do not understand any Arabic, the major points of the service had been explained to me before hand, and I tried to worship God by keeping my focus on his greatness and declaring such in my prayers. You know many of us Christians have a saying that I think most Muslims would also find fitting:

"God is good; all the time.
All the time; God is good."

Another common Christian expression is simply to say: "God is great!"
Cool.... thanks for explaining.:happy:
Reply

Dawud_uk
11-08-2006, 09:59 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I accompanied some of the men who invited me to join them in line. I then copied their form standing, kneeling, bowing when they did. Though I do not understand any Arabic, the major points of the service had been explained to me before hand, and I tried to worship God by keeping my focus on his greatness and declaring such in my prayers. You know many of us Christians have a saying that I think most Muslims would also find fitting:

"God is good; all the time.
All the time; God is good."

Another common Christian expression is simply to say: "God is great!"

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence Grace Seeker,

'God is great' in arabic Allahu Akbar which is part of our prayer so we will say it when starting our prayer, when bowing it, etc etc.

could i ask what you believe about God?

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

Abu Abdullah (father of Abdullah, it is a kunya, nickname)
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Grace Seeker
11-08-2006, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence Grace Seeker,
Thank you for your words of peace. If you perceive that to be true of me, then you will be praying peace be upon all true Christians for what I have spoken of here is no different than that which is practiced nearly universally by Christians around the globe -- all seek to follow righteous guidance, of course some are better at following than others, but to live a life in submission to God's will in one's life is the intent of all Christians.

'God is great' in arabic Allahu Akbar which is part of our prayer so we will say it when starting our prayer, when bowing it, etc etc.
Yes, though we may speak this prayer in different languages, we are expressing the same thought.

could i ask what you believe about God?
I fear that a thorough answer to your question would be more than anyone would want to read and certainly be off topic for this thread. But, as you have so politely asked, I will try to give at least the beginnings of an answer.



I believe that God is the maker of heaven and earth. I believe that God is spirit, being neither male nor female, but that God created us in his (sorry, for the anthropomorphizing, but I cannot bring myself to call God "it" which is the only other pronoun I have available to me in English)...but that God created us in his own image. And his desire was and is to live in perfect fellowship with us. I believe that this fellowship has broken by sin which all of us are guilty of, for we all fall short of God's glory. I believe that in spite of our corporate and personal sinfulness God still desires to have us joined to him and sent us prophets to direct us back to walk in his ways. Yet, even with such guidance none of us is still perfect or holy as God is holy and he still desires that we have this type of righteousness in our lives. On our own power such righteousness is unattainable. So God has acted to confer his righteousness to us. Rather than merely wooing people to himself, God took the initiative to come to us, to show us and offer us a way back to himself. God came to live and dwell among us, even going so far as to manifest himself in the flesh and dwell among us. God did this in the person of Jesus who was not just a human being but God incarnate (in the flesh) among us. I believe that Jesus in his one person thus had two natures being both 100% human and 100% divine. (Yes, I know that 100 + 100 = 200, and with mere humans this would be impossible, but with God nothing is impossible.) I also believe that God being God and omnipresent was entirely manifest in the person of Jesus and yet was not absent from any other place in which God may also always be found. I believe that Jesus, being human, was tempted as we are, but that he did not succumb to any temptation and lived a sinless life. I believe that he offered this sinless life as an atonement (payment) for the sins of all humanity. I believe that offering took place on the cross and that there God gave up his life for us humans. (I do not blame people who find this too difficult to believe, but I do believe it to be true.) I believe that Jesus was resurrected from the dead and by this resurrection shows to us the power that God has over not only life but also death. I believe that the sin I spoke of earlier that all humans have in their lives creates within us a type of spiritual death. I believe that only God is able to resurrect us to spiritual life from that death. I believe that those who trust God to do this will find that God is trustworthy and does do this, and that God does this by sharing his own Holy Spirit with us. (By the way, I do not believe this is a different God, and certainly not a creature created by God, it is just a sharing of God's self with us.) Thus, not in our own power, but in God's power, those who place their faith in God's work of salvation will find themselves united to God and able to experience full fellowship with him as he originally intended for us to have with him when he created humankind. Our lives being joined to God's we find new life in him that never ends. Thus, though I know that my earthly life will come to an end, I believe that my spiritual life having been resurrected from spiritual death will never die and that God will give life to me in it (in some type of spiritual body that is still a mystery to me) in order that I might spend eternity with him as he created me to do.

Now, that is a lot in one place. And I know that there are elements of these beliefs that you may not be able to accept, but you asked what I believed. However, is there not much in what I believe that you already believe as well? I don't think that a true Muslim and a true Christian are all that far apart. And why would we be, do we not worship the same God?
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Paul Williams
11-18-2006, 10:19 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I accompanied some of the men who invited me to join them in line. I then copied their form standing, kneeling, bowing when they did. Though I do not understand any Arabic, the major points of the service had been explained to me before hand, and I tried to worship God by keeping my focus on his greatness and declaring such in my prayers. You know many of us Christians have a saying that I think most Muslims would also find fitting:

"God is good; all the time.
All the time; God is good."

Another common Christian expression is simply to say: "God is great!"

Hi there

I don't mean to getting inappropriatley personal , but I could't help being bowled over by your having prayed in a mosque, and your kindness to your daughter!

:rock:
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cihad
11-20-2006, 10:46 AM
^thats cool

some mosques i know keep hijabs around so that visitors can cover themselves appropriately
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Tania
11-20-2006, 11:12 AM
I know women can't stand in the same row with men iduring the prayer. :-\ Its not allowed to mix there.

The churches allow other faith to enter and pray, only to visit the church is completely forbidden during the sermon, because distract the attention of people from the priest. Its allowed to visit the church when are not sermons. :)
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subzero
11-23-2006, 12:53 AM
They should be allowed. Otherwise if they cannot enter a mosque there are too few places for them to learn about islam.
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