format_quote Originally Posted by
Grace Seeker
I am confused by this also. These seem to me to be two self-contradictory statements.
If the concept that Jesus died on the cross was a popular belief among early Christians, how can you also say that early followers did not die on the cross. It seems that among early Christians either they did or they did not believe Jesus died on the cross. It seems highly unlikely that an individual would hold to two different and opposing beliefs of this nature at the same time.
Well hear you have a choice, what I am suggesting that Jesus died on the cross was not undisputed belief.
Just that Jesus dying in the cross became a prominent belief in one way or anoter.
Other beliefs concerning Jesus death either got supressed, lost or destroyed later on.
Also we know from both Roman and Jewish sources that it was not only Christians but they also believed that Jesus died on the cross. Among Christians the chief claim was that not only did Jesus die on the cross, but that he was raised to life again after his death. This is not recorded in just one place, but in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Paul's letter to the church at Corinth and John's letter which was circulated to all churches.
The reason that Christianity broke away from Judaism is not that a few adherents claimed that Jesus was crucified when he was not, but that these people claimed that he was raised from the dead and thus should be understood to be God's messiah, when others did not want to accept what that implied. the historical reality of the development of Christianity as a new faith separate from Judaism is itself testimony that the early Christians truly believed these things, whether people to day think they were in error is another story. But it betrays logic to think their lives were so radically changed by something they did NOT believe in.
Crucifixion of Jesus.
by Musa. (CopyRighted by me, non-reproducable without permission)
Unedited version. (Primary version with more work needed)
1.0 Introduction:
Christianity holds that Jesus got crucified on the cross for the redemption of the sin of mankind through shedding of his blood.
The Nicene Creed makes it an article of faith to believe in the crucifixion of Jesus:
“For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures;”[Nicene creed]
Islam holds that Jesus did not get crucified.
The purpose of this article is to reveals further insight concerning the crucifixion professed by these two faiths.
2.0. Crucifixion of Jesus according to the Bible
2.1. Leading up to the crucifixion:
Leading before the arrest of Jesus, Judas betrays him for money and all the disciples desert him and fled.
Gospel according to Luke describe Jesus being blasphemy by admitting His the son of God, when accused at the presence of the council of elders (Luke 22:70-71).
The next early morning the chief priests, with the elders, the teachers of the law and the whole Sanhedrin, reached a decision. They bound Jesus, led him away and handed him over to Pilate.
However in front of Pilate Jesus is accused of subverting the nation and opposing the payment of taxes as well as calling himself of Christ, King and stirring up the people of Judea (Luke 23: 1-2). Although Pilate seems to acknowledge there is no basis for the charge brought on nor did Herod whom Jesus was sent onto. The narration goes onto say Pilate opposed the crucifixion of Jesus but with the consent insistence of the Jews present he finally releases him to their will.
According Matthew narrates that Pilate has Jesus flogged before handing him over to them.
2.2 The Crucifixion:
The scripture according to Luke describes as Jesus was led away to be crucified with two other criminals and Simon from cyrene (the father of Alexander and Rufus according to Mark 15:21) was made to carry the cross behind Jesus. They crucified Jesus along with the two criminals one on his left and the other on his right. The people cast lots to decide who will divide his clothes. The people watched him and Rulers sneered at him. Soldiers mocked him to save himself and offered him wine vinegar.
Jesus died when “It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour, for the sun stopped shining…”(Luke 23:44-45)
All the people who gathered there to watch left but the women who followed from Galilee from a distance watch the spectacle. However according to Matthew Many women where watching from the distance who had followed from Galilee, amongst them Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons. (Mark adds “Salome” to the list)
However Gospel according to John that Jesus mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene stood by the Cross of Jesus and was indeed witness to the event. (John19:25)
The short account provided above, of the crucifixion, is according to the gospels that Christiana generally believe in.
3.0 Jesus Crucifixion according to the Quran:
According to the Quran Jesus did not get crucified but it was made to appear to them. This is provided in the Yusuf Ali translation of the Quran:
“That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-“ (Quran 4:157)
The Quran does not allude to how it was made to appear to them, i.e. whether it was someone else, an illusion.
4.0 Jesus Crucifixion according to other early Christian writing:
We have seen the position of the bible teaching on the death of Jesus, which did take place, and we have seen the Quran position on the Jesus Crucifixion, which Jesus did not get crucified but it was made to appear to them.
Coming away from the bible, and looking elsewhere we find interesting statements in a collection of thirteen ancient codices containing over fifty texts that seems to have survived, discovered in 1945 Egypt, when once thought to be destroyed during early Christian struggle to define “Orthodoxy”
4.1. The Second Treaties of the Great Seth:
According to “ The Second Treatise of the Great Seth” it describes Jesus not succumbing to the plan they devised for him. That he did not die in reality but appeared to them so, according to their sight and thought he was suffered and succumbed to fear.
“…For my death, which they think happened, (happened) to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death”[1]
It goes onto say that indeed they saw they where punishing him but it was another, their own man they nailed onto the cross and who drank the Vinegar, it also suggest it was Simon of cyrene, that they were deaf and blind and he, Jesus, was laughing at their ignorance.
4.2. The Acts of John:
The Act of John describes that John seeing that suffering of Jesus did not abide but fled unto the Mount of Olives, where he went to weep. Than Jesus appears in the midst of the cave and says:
“…John, unto the multitude below in Jerusalem I am being crucified and pierced with lances and reeds, and gall and vinegar is given me to drink….”[2] Jesus put it into the John’s mind for him to come up to this mountain so he can hear what Jesus has to say.
Jesus goes unto say “...Nothing, therefore, of the things which they will say of me have I suffered: nay, that suffering also which I showed unto thee and the rest in the dance…”[2]
That what you hear, did not happen to him, but was made to appear so, to the people present there.
“… Thou hearest that I suffered, yet did I not suffer; that I suffered not, yet did I suffer; that I was pierced, yet I was not smitten; hanged, and I was not hanged; that blood flowed from me, and it flowed not; and, in a word, what they say of me, that befell me not, but what they say not, that did I suffer…”[2]
Afterwards Jesus was taken up, and no one in the multitude beheld him.
4.3 Coptic The Apocalypse of Peter:
The Coptic Apocalypse of Peter reveals an interesting conversation between Peter and Jesus, where Peter sees they are taking Jesus, asks “who is the one glad and laughing on the tree, and is it another whom the feet and hand they are striking?”[3]
Jesus replies that the one on the tree is the living Jesus, but the one that peter sees is the substitute that came to being in his likeness.
“...He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me…”[3]
The narration goes onto say that Jesus, comes and tell that the one they crucified is a stony vessel where the demon resides, but the one standing near him is the real Jesus whom the arrested and released. Jesus laughs at their perception, knowing they are born blind.
4.4 The (First) Apocalypse of James:
According to the Apocalypse of James that when James heard of His suffering he went to the mountain called Gaugelan with his disciples where he prayed and waited for a sign of him. Jesus appears and John stops he’s prayer, embraces Jesus and kisses him, and say’s:
"Rabbi, I have found you! I have heard of your sufferings, which you endured. And I have been much distressed. My compassion you know. Therefore, on reflection, I was wishing that I would not see this people. They must be judged for these things that they have done. For these things that they have done are contrary to what is fitting."[4]
Jesus replied "...James, do not be concerned for me or for this people...” and that he did not undergo any suffering contrary to what James heard. Jesus say’s:
“...Never have I suffered in any way, nor have I been distressed. And this people has done me no harm...”[4]
5.0 Conclusion:
In conclusion this studies reveals an interesting fact concerning Jesus crucifixion whether was he crucified or not is contested before and still is now. It also sheds some light that Jesus crucifixion was not so readily believed amongst the followers and was not a common dogma during the period of early Christian faith.
What should be noted that all these scriptures reveals and agrees that it appeared to the multitude (i.e. they saw) that Jesus did get crucified and was killed on the stake (cross). However with the exception of the bible they insist it was not Jesus who in reality got crucified.
This does not change what is in the bible or the Christian belief, nor does it change what is in the Quran or the Muslim belief.
Peace.
Ref:
[1] Translated by Roger A. Bullard and Joseph A. Gibbons, The Second Treatise of the Great Seth, Selection made from James M. Robinson, ed., The Nag Hammadi Library, revised edition. HarperCollins, San Francisco, 1990.
[2] M.R. James-Translation and Notes, The Acts of John (verse 97-103), The Apocryphal New Testament, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1924
[3] Translated by James Brashler and Roger A. Bullard, (Coptic) The Apocalypse of Peter, Selection made from James M. Robinson, ed., The Nag Hammadi Library, revised edition. HarperCollins, San Francisco, 1990.
[4] Translated by William R. Schoedel, The (First) Apocalypse of James, Selection made from James M. Robinson, ed., The Nag Hammadi Library, revised edition. HarperCollins, San Francisco, 1990.