Split Moon

[`Abd al-Azeez]

:sl:

There are many ahadeeths that say that Prophet Mohammad (saw) had split the moon (Sahih Bukhari #830, #832, #208, #209, #210, #211, #387 etc..)


Many non-Muslims say that if the moon was split by Prophet Mohammad (saw) then the whole world would've witnessed this great event but there is no evidence to suggest this. What should I say? The Qur'aan also confirms this miracle:

اقْتَرَبَتِ السَّاعَةُ وَانشَقَّ الْقَمَرُ

The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.

Jazak Allah

:ws:

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:

The Qur'aan also confirms this MIRACLE:

A miracle by definition is the suspension of the natural laws of the universe. Forget about human witnesses, imagine the gravitation disturbance that would have resulted from such an event under the natural laws of the universe. According to the descriptions in the Ahâdîth, part of the moon appeared on the east side of Mt. Hîra and ther part on the west side, which is quite significant. The display was momentary as the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said "bear witness" before the moon was re-joined. Furthermore, it is reported by Imâm Abû Dawûd At-Tayâlisî and Imâm al-Bayhaqî that travellers who arrived in Makkah also confirmed that they witnessed the event. So the phenomenon was witnessed and attested to by the people of the region and part of it being miraculous is that it did not create any disturbance to be documented by other people.

Even if we do suppose that God allowed it to be an observable phenomenon across the globe, then most people who were experiencing night-time and were awake and were watching the moon at that particular sudden moment on that particular night would not have been taken credible enough for historical documentation that would stand 1400 years. Even if there were a total of thousands of witnesses across all the lands, the chance they would ever travel to meet together in one city and discuss what they probably dismissed as an illusion is minimal. For the Quraysh, they witnessed the Prophet spit the moon and ask them to bear witness and they witnessed the testimony of the travellers as well. This was a sign for the Quraysh.

:w:

[`Abd al-Azeez]

Bro you are one smart guy, Jazakallah for the explanation :)

[Snowflake]

:sl:

http://fesabilillah.wordpress.com/20...oon-splitting/


:w:

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[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

saw it sis subhanAllah its amazing

[nelly]

that was great, i heard sumwhere that the day is near wen the moon is lookin very large, is that true? coz about a week ago i was in the car wiv my family and we saw the moon and the looked so massive it almost looked unreal

[Camomilla]

=) Waw! It really Is amazing!
Masha Allah!
thanx for sharing It!
Wassalaam! =), =)

[Snowflake]

that was great, i heard sumwhere that the day is near wen the moon is lookin very large, is that true? coz about a week ago i was in the car wiv my family and we saw the moon and the looked so massive it almost looked unreal

nah, the moon is actually moving away from the earth..

The tidal bulges produced on Earth by the Moon are not centered at the point on Earth's surface directly below the Moon, but are shifted ahead of the Moon because of Earth's faster spin rate. The gravitational force of the excess mass in this displaced bulge pulls on the Moon, slightly increasing its orbital velocity. In the 1600s, Johannes Kepler showed that when an object's orbital velocity increases, its orbital radius will expand; thus, the Moon slowly recedes from Earth.

SubhanAllah.. it's already mentioned in the Quran

Noble Verse 51:47 "And the firmament, We constructed with power and skill and verily We are expanding it." The Universe according to the Noble Quran will keep expanding and changing until the Day of Judgment.

[nelly]

thanx 4 that, i dnt no where i get my views from!

[taqi]

jazak-allah

[zaria]

Masha'Allah,

Jazakuallah Khair

[- Qatada -]

that was great, i heard sumwhere that the day is near wen the moon is lookin very large, is that true? coz about a week ago i was in the car wiv my family and we saw the moon and the looked so massive it almost looked unreal

:salamext:


I did hear in a lecture that there is a prophecy that the moon will look more bloated [i.e. more bigger] closer to the final hour. Allaah knows best.

['Abd al-Baari]

Mashallah
A great video
Jazakallah for sharing

[- Qatada -]

Yes, I understand, I am just at a lost of words to why thousands of cultures did not write about this, nor attribute this action to their own gods. Such a thing like the moon splitting I would think create thousands of literrary works.

There are mentions of chinese and indian historical recordings which mention the year of 'when the moon split.' I will try to find the source if i can inshaa Allaah [God willing] as i heard it in a lecture by Imaam Anwar al-Awlaki.


Anyway the reason why it might not be preserved by other countries as much is due to the fact that the moon was only visible at night time - therefore half of the world is counted out [due to the fact that its day time there.] Then there is also the issue of clouds, so not all countries who are seeing the night can view the moon. Then we also know that 1400years ago, it was rare to be a literate person. We also know that not all the historical recordings were preserved since that time.

Therefore it doesn't mean that it never occured simply because there aren't thousands of literary works. We believe in it because it's mentioned in the Qur'an and the Authentic Ahadith, we don't need to doubt it if it's mentioned there - the same way you believe because your scripture says something - something even more miraculous where you claim that a whole nation spoke to God directly.



Regards.

[lavikor201]

I would love to rip the Torah by listing all it's scientific inaccuracies, but I will not steep that low.

I'm not speaking about a scientific inaccuracy philo. I am speaking about why thousands of cultures did not begin reporting about how the moon split. It is actually a huge difference. I am willing to accept scientific inaccuracies like the moon splitting because such a thing is easy for G-d. It is why it was never reported by all these civilizations.

So? there is NO opposition between you and me ..... Iam talking about subject and you talk about another.

"And of every thing We have created pairs: that ye may receive instruction"

does This verse talk about reproduction?

please read carefully .. and be honest with yourself when you read Quran.

I was speaking about on the matter if every species was created in a pair or not.

[جوري]

other cultures have reported the moon splitting.. can be read here

WITNESS OF MOON SPLITTING (A MIRACLE OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PBUH ))

CHAKRAWATI FARMAS KING OF MALABAR, INDIA

The incident relating to King Chakrawati Farmas is documented in an old manuscript in the India Office Library, London, which has reference number: Arabic, 2807, 152-173. It was quoted in the book "Muhammad Rasulullah," by M. Hamidullah:

"There is a very old tradition in Malabar, South-West Coast of India, that Chakrawati Farmas, one of their kings, had observed the splitting of the moon, the celebrated miracle of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) at Mecca, and learning on inquiry that there was a prediction of the coming of a Messanger of God from Arabia (Detail given bellow), he appointed his son as regent and set out to meet him. He embraced Islam at the hand of the Prophet, and when returning home, at the direction of the Prophet, died at the port of Zafar, Yemen, where the tomb of the "Indian king" was piously visited for many centuries."

The old manuscript in the 'India Office Library' contains several other details about King Chakrawati Farmas and his travel[1].

The king spent weeks in seclusion. In the midst of his quiet life, he set out on the journey along with the Arab travelers who'd promised him earlier. On the way, they stopped by Koylandi and from there to Dharmapatnam where they halted for 3 days. Then they set out to Shehr Muqalla. On reaching there, they set for the Hajj pilgrimage and thereafter returned to Malabar. He aspired to spread the message of Islam. But on the way, he fell sick and breathed his last.

A tradition of the Holy Prophet has also been reported from one of the companions, Abu Saeed al Kaudri, regarding the arrival of Cheraman Perumel. "A king from India presented the Messenger of Allah with a bottle of pickle that had ginger in it. The Holy Prophet distributed it among his companions. I also received a piece to eat ". (Hakim reports in 'Al Musthadrak )

Umar Qazi's poem on Cheraman Perumal.
Umar Qazi was well aware of the story of Cheraman Perumal - the first Indian to accept Islam. He narrates it thus in one of his poems inscribed on the walls of Ponnani Juma Masjid.

Kodungallur was a center of festivals established by the great Emperor Cheraman Perumal .....
The major part of all the minor kingdoms were under his rule ...
As such, one day he saw he saw the moon split into two (a miracle of Holy Prophet performed in Arabia) on a clear cloudless night ....
As a result the love for Holy Prophet grew in his heart and he became the earliest Muslim of this nation....[2]

Moon Splitting in The Quran
The splitting of the moon is mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, Surah Al-Qamar (54), Verses 1-3:

The hour drew nigh and the moon was rent in twain.
And if they behold a portent they turn away and say:
Prolonged illusion.
They denied (the Truth) and followed their own lusts.
Yet everything will come to a decision.

Moon Splitting in Hadiths
Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: "During the lifetime of the Prophet the moon was split into two parts and on that the Prophet said, 'Bear witness (to thus).' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 830)"

Narrated Anas: "That the Meccan people requested Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle, and so he showed them the splitting of the moon. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 831)"

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: "The moon was split into two parts during the lifetime of the Prophet. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 832)"

Narrated Anas bin Malik: "The people of Mecca asked Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle. So he showed them the moon split in two halves between which they saw the Hiram' mountain. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 208)"

Narrated 'Abdullah: "The moon was split ( into two pieces ) while we were with the Prophet in Mina. He said, "Be witnesses." Then a Piece of the moon went towards the mountain. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 209)"

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas: "During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle the moon was split (into two places). (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 210)"

Narrated 'Abdullah: "The moon was split (into two pieces). (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 211)"[3]

According to Maududi, the traditionists and commentators have agreed that this incident took place at Mina in Makkah about five years before the Holy Prophet's Hijra (migration) to Madinah.

The Moon had split into two distinct parts in front of their very eyes. The two parts had separated and receded so much apart from each other that to the on-lookers (in Makkah) one part had appeared on one side of the mountain and the other on the other side of it. Then, in an instant the two had rejoined. This was a manifest proof of the truth that the system of the universe was neither eternal nor immortal, it could be disrupted.

This incident indicated that huge stars and planets could split asunder, disintegrate, collide with each other, and everything that had been described in the Qur'an on the Resurrection could happen. The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) invited the people's attention to this event only with this object in view and asked them to mark it and be a witness to it. But the disbelievers described it as a magical illusion and persisted in their denial. They were reproached in Surah Al-Qamar (The Moon) for their stubbornness.

Other Relevant Notes
It is due to this incident about their king, the people of Malabar became the first community in India to accept Islam. Subsequently, they increased their trade with Arabs, as the Arab ships used to pass by their shores on the way to China before the advent of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Before Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Malabar also had a Christian community dating back from the earliest followers of Prophet Jesus ('Isa), pbuh. St. Thomas is believed to have migrated to India and died there. This community remained untouched by later theological developments in Christianity until the arrival of Portugese traveler Vasco da Gama.

When the British were consolidating their stronghold in India, they deployed the largest naval operation (on the shores of India) against the Muslims of Malabar[4].

Predictions of the coming of a Messanger of God from Arabia
Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) was commanded by God to inform that he was not the only Messenger of God to the world [Al Qur'an 46:9]. Scholars say that there had been some 124,000 Prophet sent to the world who preached in the language of the respective people [A Qur'an 14:4]. The true religion they preached and their scriptures got corrupted with passage of time (with the exception of Al Qur'an). However, the message on the last and greatest Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) is retained till date in the scriptures of all major world religions.

The Hindu scriptures identify the greatest Prophet to come mentioning details of his birth, events of his life, his followers, etc. Some even give his Arabic name or its equivalents! This article will help creating right belief (Iman) in other religionists.

Further, it will help Muslims appreciate yet another facet of greatness of Prophet (Pbuh) and deepen their Iman. We will see here only a sample of the overwhelming evidences!

Prophet (Pbuh) Foretold in India (A) Hindu scriptures
There is no doubt that God sent Prophets (Pbuh) to people of India. There is no mention of any Indian Prophet or scripture in Holy Qur'an. But Bukhari records Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) as saying he was enjoying breeze wafting from India laden with fragrance of Tawhid (unity of God). The four Vedas (scriptures) of Hindus and their epics are said to be 5000-10,000 years old. They contain a great deal of monotheistic ideas, and of course, prophecies on Hadrath Muhammad (Pbuh).

Bhavishya Puran
This is a Sanskrit work of prophecies. The title means 'Book of the Future'. Since Hinduism is based in India it was, and still is, taken for granted that its sages will be born in India itself. Contrary to this belief the Book says that a great master will appear in a foreign country (mlechcha acharya) and live in a sandy region (marusthal). His name will be Mahaaamad. Within a short span of 18 couplets Mahaamad is mentioned five times.

There is an interesting information in Bhavishya Purana that Mahaamad would appear to Bhoj, ruler of Dhar, and say that he would establish the religion of meat eaters, by the command of Ishwar i.e. God. There is a tradition that long afterwards, Bhoj got terrified on seeing the full moon split into two. Learned men consulted holy books and told him that it was one of the signs of the Universal Master to be born in a country to the West. Bhoj sent his minister to Prophet (Pbuh) in Arabia, who named the king Abdullah. The Tomb of Abdullah is still there at Dhar...

Mahabharat
This is a Hindu epic describing the struggle and triumph of good against evil. It was written by sage Vyas who also authored Bhavishya Purana. Mahabharata says that in the last eon called Kali Yug (in which we now live) a great sage will appear with name Mahaamad. He would preach about unity of God. He will be driven away from his native place by his own folk. By him the world would get peace. (Islam means peace). Mahabharat further says that cloud will provide him shade. It is recorded in history that Buhaira, the Christian priest of Syria observed this sign with Muhammad e in his boyhood and identified him as the last Prophet anticipated for millennia.

Kalki Puran
The signs and events of the final Avatar Kalki point out to final Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh). They fit those of Muhammad (Pbuh) neatly and perfectly. They are as follows;

Kalki will appear in the last on Kali Yug and will be the guide for the entire world.

He will be born on the 12th day of the month. Prophet (Pbuh) as born on 12th Of Rabiyyul Awwal).

His parents will be: Vishnu Bhagat and Soomati meaning servant of God (the Cherisher) and peace. (Messenger's (Pbuh) father's name was Abdullah, God's servant and mother was Amina refuge giver which includes the idea of 'peace'.)

He will be with a beauty par-excellence. His body will be fragrant.

He will get wisdom on a mountain. (Messenger (Pbuh) was conferred Prophethood on Mt.Hira)

He will receive a horse from God, which will be faster than lightning. Riding it he will go around the earth and seven skies. (During Mi'raj Prophet (Pbuh) got Buraq meaning lightning and toured the entire universe.)

Kalki will split the moon. Like Bhoj, Cheraman (Zamorin) Perumal the ruler of Indian kingdom of Kerala, witnessed splitting of the moon performed by Prophet (Pbuh). After gathering the facts he sailed to Arabia and became Muslim at Prophet's (Pbuh) hand. His Tomb is near the city of Salala in Oman[5].


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] See: "CHAKRAWATI FARMAS King of Malabar India" by Dr. Z. HAQ at http://cyberistan.org/islamic/farmas.html
[2] See: "Cheraman Perumal The First Indian To Accept Islam" at http://jaihoon.com/watan/perumalfirst.htm.
[3] See: "Did Prophet Muhammad really split the moon with his index finger" at http://www.answering-christianity.com/moon_split.htm
[4] See: "CHAKRAWATI FARMAS King of Malabar, India" by Dr.Z.HAQ at http://cyberistan.org/islamic/farmas.html
[5] See: "Ultimate Prophet (Pbuh) Foretold" by M. I. Liaqat Ali at http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywo...criptures.html.

[lavikor201]

There is a very old tradition in Malabar, South-West Coast of India, that Chakrawati Farmas, one of their kings, had observed the splitting of the moon,

And he was a Muslim?

[جوري]

he became Muslim afterwards.

[lavikor201]

he became Muslim afterwards.

So this Muslim who became afterwards a Muslim because he witnessed this "miracle" which I have no porblem accepting since the Torah not only says false prophets may perform miracles but in many cases WILL perform mircales. The only problem is that, if the moon split, I would have to say, that we would know about this event, from such a huge amount of writing and talk on the topic. Not from the manuscripts of one guy, or such. I can find hundreds of manuscripts speaking about how a fire "god" went around the earth 30 times spitting fire at every community and then justify it by finding a few accounts of fire gods.

I think we may just have to accept that the amount of evidence you require may be a lot less of which I require, which is not a bad thing, but a reality.

[Woodrow]

So this Muslim who became afterwards a Muslim because he witnessed this "miracle" which I have no porblem accepting since the Torah not only says false prophets may perform miracles but in many cases WILL perform mircales. The only problem is that, if the moon split, I would have to say, that we would know about this event, from such a huge amount of writing and talk on the topic. Not from the manuscripts of one guy, or such. I can find hundreds of manuscripts speaking about how a fire "god" went around the earth 30 times spitting fire at every community and then justify it by finding a few accounts of fire gods.

I think we may just have to accept that the amount of evidence you require may be a lot less of which I require, which is not a bad thing, but a reality.

I think we may just have to accept that the amount of evidence you require may be a lot less of which I require, which is not a bad thing, but a reality

That is true. Quite often in discussing religious beleifs that is the only point that can be agreed upon by all.

[Philosopher]

So this Muslim who became afterwards a Muslim because he witnessed this "miracle" which I have no porblem accepting since the Torah not only says false prophets may perform miracles but in many cases WILL perform mircales. The only problem is that, if the moon split, I would have to say, that we would know about this event, from such a huge amount of writing and talk on the topic. Not from the manuscripts of one guy, or such. I can find hundreds of manuscripts speaking about how a fire "god" went around the earth 30 times spitting fire at every community and then justify it by finding a few accounts of fire gods.

I think we may just have to accept that the amount of evidence you require may be a lot less of which I require, which is not a bad thing, but a reality.

By your standards, Moses is a false prophet as well, since he performed miracles as well.

What writing are you talking about? Whats the use of documentation if they are fabricated (ex. Torah)? What about Noah and the flood of the entire earth? You can have a million documents stating this, but even an eight year old knows it's a poorly written fairy tale.

[جوري]

So this Muslim who became afterwards a Muslim because he witnessed this "miracle" which I have no porblem accepting since the Torah not only says false prophets may perform miracles but in many cases WILL perform mircales. The only problem is that, if the moon split, I would have to say, that we would know about this event, from such a huge amount of writing and talk on the topic. Not from the manuscripts of one guy, or such. I can find hundreds of manuscripts speaking about how a fire "god" went around the earth 30 times spitting fire at every community and then justify it by finding a few accounts of fire gods.

I think we may just have to accept that the amount of evidence you require may be a lot less of which I require, which is not a bad thing, but a reality.

Prophet Mohammed PBUH splitting the moon isn't the fulcrum of why we are Muslims... Many messengers took their miracles with them, never to be duplicated, or even verified save for mention in their own holy books if at all. The Quran is prophet Mohammed biggest miracle to withstand the test of time and Islam ultimately is a thinking man's religion-- not for one looking for a table from heaven, but one who reflects on words and creation, and wishes to incorporate righteousness as a way of life --- There are things in the Quran about prophet Solomon for instance that will blow your mind away. The words the interpretation is beyond anything you have ever read... but that is a topic for another day...

There weren't thousands and thousands of other cultures at the time, there were a few civilized regions in the east... Gutenberg's Printing Press isn't even 6 centuries old let alone 15 centuries old for this sort of information to have been documented and disseminated with the level to your liking. Yet there is documentation nonetheless.

First you wanted in the least one documentation and we gave you one, for some reason it isn't satisfactory, since all you conceive is the false hood of prophet Mohammed PBUH' message, to which we say you are entitled to your beliefs. here is the thing though, I don't feel any obligation to make you believe...

peace!

[Hemoo]

So this Muslim who became afterwards a Muslim because he witnessed this "miracle" which I have no porblem accepting since the Torah not only says false prophets may perform miracles but in many cases WILL perform mircales. The only problem is that, if the moon split, I would have to say, that we would know about this event, from such a huge amount of writing and talk on the topic. Not from the manuscripts of one guy, or such. I can find hundreds of manuscripts speaking about how a fire "god" went around the earth 30 times spitting fire at every community and then justify it by finding a few accounts of fire gods.

I think we may just have to accept that the amount of evidence you require may be a lot less of which I require, which is not a bad thing, but a reality.

first you are implying that this muslim man is a liar but as you see in the story that he accepted islam after saying what he said which conclude to us that he was not lying about it.

second from what we know that the spliting of the moon was seen by some of the Arab disbelievers and they even replied that it is just a continuous magic because many people have seen it. so even those disbelievers didn't deny it.

third: in these time when the moon did split, it was indeed at night in some counttries so the common thing is that people are sleeping and not hanging on watching the skies for an event to occur.

fourth: we both agree that the sea did split for prophet moses (P.B.U.H) and his muslim followers and this is considered one of the greatest events in history but where is the books of history that mentioned this event and how many are they.

because an event like that should have been so well-known between the egyptions and the near countries.

finally i want to ask you a question :

you say that the prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) is a false prophet so in your opinion how could a liar be able to show miracles that only can be made with the Aid of Allah ?

how could a person say lies about Allah but he is still known for his good attributes untill now and he was able to gain victory on his enemies in spite having a smaller army ?

so who gave him aid and who told him about future things (like that muslims will conquers Egypt and be victorious after his death).

in your opinion why Allah the Almighty support Muhammad (P.B.U.H) with such miracles ?

Allah did support him just like Allah has supported All true prophets like noah, moses, David and others (may peace and blessings be upon them all)

[lavikor201]

By your standards, Moses is a false prophet as well, since he performed miracles as well.

What writing are you talking about? Whats the use of documentation if they are fabricated (ex. Torah)? What about Noah and the flood of the entire earth? You can have a million documents stating this, but even an eight year old knows it's a poorly written fairy tale.

Alright well first we will get to your points.


1.) Moses was not accepted as a prophet because he did miracles.

The scriptures, only call on Israel who witnessed G-d's deeds to follow and keep his laws. No other nation is threatened or blamed for not accepting the Torah/Law; they are not obligated to, for they did not witness the miracles which prove the truth of the Torah/Law! Moses did not demand that the children of Israel should believe in him, for none of them ever disputed the truth of the law, which they had witnessed together with him. But the books of Islam and Christianity vehemently curse everyone in the world who disbelieves them although they did not demonstrate their proofs to the whole world. Judaism says the non-Jews who did not recieve the proofs that the Torah is divine do not need to follow it. They just have to follow the seven laws of basic morality.

2.) On the flood story: You certainly cannot refute that the flood did not happen, and your own answer shows that if you use the exact same logic in all of your descions then the moon story must have ben a "poorly written fairly tail" as well.

First you wanted in the least one documentation and we gave you one, for some reason it isn't satisfactory, since all you conceive is the false hood of prophet Mohammed PBUH' message, to which we say you are entitled to your beliefs. here is the thing though, I don't feel any obligation to make you believe...

That is a misquote my friend. I wrote: I am speaking about why thousands of cultures did not begin reporting about how the moon split. It is actually a huge difference.

That was my question. You provided me with one account from a Muslim, who converted after he saw this "moon split". I am willing to accept that G-d can do such things, I am just asking why such things were not recorded.

I really think you are underestimating the period in time these events took place as well, labeling all the people as so backwards.

first you are implying that this muslim man is a liar but as you see in the story that he accepted islam after saying what he said which conclude to us that he was not lying about it.

second from what we know that the spliting of the moon was seen by some of the Arab disbelievers and they even replied that it is just a continuous magic because many people have seen it. so even those disbelievers didn't deny it.

third: in these time when the moon did split, it was indeed at night in some counttries so the common thing is that people are sleeping and not hanging on watching the skies for an event to occur.

fourth: we both agree that the sea did split for prophet moses (P.B.U.H) and his muslim followers and this is considered one of the greatest events in history but where is the books of history that mentioned this event and how many are they.

because an event like that should have been so well-known between the egyptions and the near countries.

finally i want to ask you how could a liar be able to show miracles that only can be made with the Aid of Allah ?

how could a person say lies about Allah but he is still known for his good attributes untill now and he was able to gain victory on his enemies in spite having a smaller army ?

so who gave him aid and who told him about future things (like that muslims will conquers Egypt and be victorious after his death).

What on earth are you talking about Sir? Your screaming about all these "miracles" it seems, that you will make everyone deaf?

I don't understand some of your questions like "how could someone say lies about G-d?" when such a thing has happend, and also you ask "how can a liar make miracles" easy, G-d gives him the power to, because there is a thing called the Yetzer Hora, which tries to tempt you. G-d writes that the Torah is eternal, and therefore, when al these false prophets come and do miracles, the test is if you will be led astray.

[جوري]

ha? a Muslim who converted to a Muslim? did you read the article? He wasn't at all Muslim.. he became so after witnessing the splitting of the moon... and it was recorded..

[lavikor201]

ha? a Muslim who converted to a Muslim? did you read the article? He wasn't at all Muslim.. he became so after witnessing the splitting of the moon... and it was recorded..

I'd love to see the actual source but since that is impossible I will accept your source and, I will have to just offer up an explanation which you can reject or not.

Maybe this king who converted to Islam, said he saw it because he was a Muslim and wanted to support his religion.

Example: I read a story about a Buddhist who said the Buddha appeared and levitated her, and a bunch of statues and said that is why she converted to Buddhism. Another person testified that they saw it, it was a big thing in a Hebrew newspaper a while ago.

Now of course, I don't buy it, but she did convert and it was recorded!

My theory is she converted because she liked Buddhism and then described some miracle to try and convince others, and try and justufy how she made the right move. Now of course she might disagree, you might to!

Now, your welcome to hold your opinion, but do not expect me to jump over this. My question was about the thousands of civilizations that did exist at the time that should have seen it and recorded it.

Either way, I am not asking you for proof, I am stating my concern and a reason I very well have concerns with it although I feel G-d is compeltly capable of doing it. G-d helps false prophets to lead us astray because life is a test. Judaims teaches that the idolators use to heal people and perfomr crazy miracles to tempt the Jews.

I am not disputing the moon account for any reason other than, I am curious as to why such a big thing was not recorded so much.

[جوري]

1.) Moses was not accepted as a prophet because he did miracles.[INDENT]The scriptures, only call on Israel who witnessed G-d's deeds to follow and keep his laws.

Funny things is that is exactly what we told you in different words in post above yours. Islam isn't about Miracles... it is a thinking man's religion. Again we don't need a table from Heaven, nor is a moon splitting the crux of our religion.

[lavikor201]

Funny things is that is exactly what we told you in different words in post above yours. Islam isn't about Miracles... it is a thinking man's religion. Again we don't need a table from Heaven, nor is a moon splitting the crux of our religion.

Well I disagree that you can consider a religion based on that concept to require all to follow it or experience eternal fire, and pain. But I must go now, and it was a delight sharing thoughts with you. Hopefully, I will see you post more in the evolution thread. :)

[Keltoi]

It is interesting how many cultures tell tales of an ancient flood that affected just about everyone. Sort of hard to forget a flood that massive.

[جوري]

I'd love to see the actual source but since that is impossible I will accept your source and, I will have to just offer up an explanation which you can reject or not.

Maybe this king who converted to Islam, said he saw it because he was a Muslim and wanted to support his religion.

Example: I read a story about a Buddhist who said the Buddha appeared and levitated her, and a bunch of statues and said that is why she converted to Buddhism. Another person testified that they saw it, it was a big thing in a Hebrew newspaper a while ago.

Now of course, I don't buy it, but she did convert and it was recorded!

Now, your welcome to hold your opinion, but do not expect me to jump over this. My question was about the thousands of civilizations that did exist at the time that should have seen it and recorded it.

Either way, I am not asking you for proof, I am stating my concern and a reason I very well have concerns with it although I feel G-d is compeltly capable of doing it. G-d helps false prophets to lead us astray because life is a test. Judaims teaches that the idolators use to heal people and perfomr crazy miracles to tempt the Jews.

I am not disputing the moon account for any reason other than, I am curious as to why such a big thing was not recorded so much.

You don't need to have concerns when it comes to Islam. I'd worry myself about your own beliefs. Muslims have never stolen gold from Egyptians to build themselves an idol calf to worship for instance, Nor have they worshipped a man named Ezra as some Jews... .. We have Also never incorporated old Indian mythology of reincarnation into our religion as some Jews to modern day believe! and, We don't need to deny other messengers for Prophet Mohammed to stand out as the bearer of truth! It is has been strictly monotheistic from the beginning.... I have already stated repeatedly, whether or not you believe the moon has split, is inconsequential to me. Your psychological analysis to fit modern day views of a man who lived 15 centuries ago is just as inconsequential, you think people then cared about today's politics, to contrast it with Buddhist mythology? That is laughable man! .... or do you mean to bother me by calling prophet Mohammed a false prophet? if that is what you need to tell yourself to keep being a pious Jew then by all means, but believe you me, it inspires nothing more than a shrug of the shoulders and a furtive smile on my end.

peace!

[جوري]

Well I disagree that you can consider a religion based on that concept to require all to follow it or experience eternal fire, and pain. But I must go now, and it was a delight sharing thoughts with you. Hopefully, I will see you post more in the evolution thread. :)

That is your own low common denominator understanding of what it means to be Muslim, and unfortunately a product of a few who can't express themselves beyond these impressions. Islam has enriched my life in ways that can't be written. & I am thankful for such a gift... I believe everyone who follows the path of the righteous truthfully will have a more deep and sophisticated understanding beyond rewards or punishment... If I am going to distill Islam into one word as if a jeopardy question , it would be (justice) not (punishment)!

peace!

[Philosopher]

1.) Moses was not accepted as a prophet because he did miracles.

The scriptures, only call on Israel who witnessed G-d's deeds to follow and keep his laws. No other nation is threatened or blamed for not accepting the Torah/Law; they are not obligated to, for they did not witness the miracles which prove the truth of the Torah/Law! Moses did not demand that the children of Israel should believe in him, for none of them ever disputed the truth of the law, which they had witnessed together with him. But the books of Islam and Christianity vehemently curse everyone in the world who disbelieves them although they did not demonstrate their proofs to the whole world. Judaism says the non-Jews who did not recieve the proofs that the Torah is divine do not need to follow it. They just have to follow the seven laws of basic morality.

We simply need to look on the Torah's view on disbelievers to refute your claim.

2.) On the flood story: You certainly cannot refute that the flood did not happen, and your own answer shows that if you use the exact same logic in all of your descions then the moon story must have ben a "poorly written fairly tail" as well.

LMAO! Do you even know that the Old Testament account is taken as a myth nowadays? Even Christians do not take this account literally. The flood that engulfed the entire world did not happen, and archaeological evidence confirms this:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

The Torah account was copied from Gilgamesh.

[Trumble]

LMAO! Do you even know that the Old Testament account is taken as a myth nowadays? Even Christians do not take this account literally.

Some do, and in increasing numbers. I came across THIS the other day;

Grand Canyon park guides will tell you that the canyon took more than a million years to form and cuts through rocks that span more than a billion years. Not so, say "Young Earth" creationists. All those rocks were deposited by flood waters at the time of Noah.

Though the Bible does not mention them directly, Ken Ham thinks there is no reason to suppose that dinosaurs were not still around at the time of the flood. Indeed, he speculates that two of each may have been taken aboard the Ark (newly hatched dinosaurs are quite small so fitting them in would not have been a problem).

And what about the animals from other continents? Did Noah sail to Australia to drop off the kangaroos? No, the flood waters lubricated a process called runaway subduction in which the continents subsequently drifted apart at a sprint!

This is my favourite bit

On a rocky ledge, there is a pair of small theropods - young T. rex individuals, we're told. And near to them ("hold onto your hat", says Ken, anticipating our disbelief) there are two human children playing by a stream.

Most geologists would say humans and dinosaurs were separated by more than 60 million years. And those dinosaurs have very sharp teeth!
"So do bears", says Ken, "but they eat nuts and berries! Remember, before the sin of Adam, the world was perfect. All creatures were vegetarian."

Erm.. OK.

[lavikor201]

Nor have they worshipped a man named Ezra as some Jews... ..

Excuse me?

[mustafajadeed]

Salam Alay Koom:

I have a Blood sister (who is not Muslim- yet) who actually thinks that we "worship" the moon since it is on some flags of various countries, on Masjids, etc.

Do not go "Crazy" over things meant to just be accepted. Many do not believe in the Miraj- when the Prophet (saw) was taken from Mecca to Al Aqsa to Heaven, The Qur'an says it happened. (Q: 17:1). That is all I need to know. Some Miracles are not for everyone. Did the rest of the Sahaba-Companions go with him? No. Did they believe him? Not at that time- with the exception of Abu Bakr (as I remember it), until the Verse was sent down.

Did Everyone see the Flaming Bush? No.

Everyone saw Isa/ Jesus make the dove out of clay (Q: 5;113) and some were present at "the Last Supper" / when the Table was sent down(Q: 5:117), you can see how all of that ended up.

If the Qur'an says it happened, so be it.

Salam alay koom

[eagleye]

Muslims have never stolen gold from Egyptians to build themselves an idol calf to worship for instance,

isn't the gold gave as recompensation for the slavery? (according to the bible)

Nor have they worshipped a man named Ezra as some Jews... ..

not familiar with. something that needs historical corroborating evidence to support that. especially when you throw towards a Jew i.e. lavikor201 or even any non muslim. it's maybe circulated in Islamic believes. this has no relevance to others.

We have Also never incorporated old Indian mythology of reincarnation into our religion as some Jews to modern day believe!

the reincarnation is something as well existed in Greek's philosophy.
later adopted by certain Jewish mystics (kabalists) as well by certain Islamic mystics (Sufis) it is however not dogmatic. there are strong opposition from Orthodox body in both religions i.e. Islam and Judaism.

[vpb]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/303737...lit_from_nasa/

[- Qatada -]

not familiar with. something that needs historical corroborating evidence to support that. especially when you throw towards a Jew i.e. lavikor201 or even any non muslim. it's maybe circulated in Islamic believes. this has no relevance to others.

I'll quote bro Ansar:

http://www.islamicboard.com/304721-post23.html


:sl:
I responded to this issue in the thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/7668-questions-christian-friend.html

Again,

Muhammad Asad is a jew who converted to Islam and this is what he says about this verse:

This statement is connected with the preceding verse, which speaks of the erring followers of earlier revelation. The charge of shirk ("the ascribing of divinity [or "divine qualities"] to aught beside God") is levelled against both the Jews and the Christians in amplification, as it were, of the statement that they "do not follow the religion of truth [which God has enjoined upon them]".
As regards the belief attributed to the Jews that Ezra (or, in the Arabicized form of this name, `Uzayr) was "God's son", it is to be noted that almost all classical commentators of the Qur'an agree in that only the Jews of Arabia, and not all Jews, have been thus accused. (According to a Tradition on the authority of Ibn `Abbas - quoted by Tabari in his commentary on this verse - some of the Jews of Medina once said to Muhammad, "How could we follow thee when thou hast forsaken our giblah and dost not consider Ezra a son of God?") On the other hand, Ezra occupies a unique position in the esteem of all Jews, and has always been praised by them in the most extravagant terms. It was he who restored and codified the Torah after it had been lost during the Babylonian Exile, and "edited" it in more or less the form which it has today; and thus "he promoted the establishment of an exclusive, legalistic type of religion that became dominant in later Judaism" (Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1963, vol. IX, p. 15). Ever since then he has been venerated to such a degree that his verdicts on the Law of Moses have come to be regarded by the Talmudists as being practically equivalent to the Law itself: which, in Qur'anic ideology, amounts to the unforgivable sin of shirk, inasmuch as it implies the elevation of a human being to the status of a quasi-divine law-giver and the blasphemous attribution to him - albeit metaphorically - of the quality of "sonship" in relation to God. Cf. in this connection Exodus iv, 22-23 ("Israel is My son") or Jeremiah xxxi, 9 ("I am a father to Israel"): expressions to which, because of their idolatrous implications, the Qur'dn takes strong exception. (Asad, Message of the Qur'an)

More info here:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...rnal/ezra.html

...the quote that I gave from Muhammad Asad, a former Jew himself, who pointed out that, as mentioned in At-Tabari's tafsir, some Jews came to the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and said, "How can we follow you when you do not believe Uzayr is the son of God?". Noice that the Qur'an doesn't say that the Jews believe Uzayr is the son of God, but the Qur'an is very precise in saying that the Jews say Uzayr is the son of God. Thus, it cannot be a contradiction in any way since the Qur'an is only responding to the verbal proclamation of a group of Jews!

Also interesting is Dr. Muhammad Mohar Ali's comments on this issue:

Of course there is no evidence in the extant Old Testament about it; but the Qur'an was not referring to what is written in the Old Testament about 'Uzayr but to the belief and assertion of some of the Jews of the time who regarded 'Uzayr as the son of God. In fact the 'ayah in question, 9:30, starts with the expression: "And the Jews say". The commentator Al-Baydawi, to whome Watt refers a number of times in his book, (fn. Watt, Muhammad's Mecca, 108, note 2 to Chapter 1 and notes 2 and 10 to Chapter III) makes it clear with reference to this 'ayah that because the Old Testament was given its present form by 'Uzayr, many of the Jews of the time considered him a "son of God" and that specifically at Madina there was a group of Jews who held that belief. Al-Baydawi futher points out that the 'ayah in question was read out and recited as usual but no Madinan Jew came forward with a contradiction (fn.Al-Baydawi, Tafsir, I, second Egyptian impression, 1968, p. 412). It is to be noted that this 'ayah is unanimously regarded as Madinan. Hence the silence of the Jews of the place on the matter is suggestive enough, particularly as they were avowed critics of the Prophet.
Not only Al-Baydawi but also other commentators mention that the 'ayah refers to the views of a particular group of the Jews. For instance, Al-Tabari bives a number of reports together with their chains of narrators specifically mentioning the leading Jews of Madina who considered Uzayr a son of God. The most prominent of those Jews were Finhas, Sullam ibn Mishkam, Nu'man ibn Awfa, Sha's ibn Qays and Malik ibn al-Sayf (fn. Al-Tabari, Tafsir, XIV, 201-204). Similarly, Al-Qurtubi mentions the same fact and the same names adding that the expression "the Jews" occuring at the beginning of the 'ayah means "some particular Jews", just as the expression "people told them" (qala lahum al-nas) means not all the people of the world but some particular people. He further says that the Jewish sect who held that 'Uzayr was God's son had become extinct by his (Al-Qurtubi's) time (fn. Al-Qurtubi, Tafsir, Pt. VIII, 116-117). (Muhammad Mohar Ali, The Qur'an and the Orientalists, Jam'iyat 'Ihyaa' Minhaaj Al-Sunnah 2004, p. 66)

So as for what he quotes,

Notice the words "proposed" and "assumption". There are no records from any Jewish community that believed Ezra was the Son of God!

First of all, this is the fallacy of argumentum ad ignorantium which we can refute with the expression, "absence of proof is not proof of absence". In other words, just because we don't have Judaic records that shows that Jews believed this, does not prove that no Jews ever believed this!

Secondly, as was previously mentioned, there are specific historical narrations related by Qur'anic commentators like Al-Baydawi and At-Tabari which state the names of specific Jewish leaders who came forward to the Muslims and said "We cannot believe you since you do not accept Uzayr as the son of God". And notice that the Qur'an doesn't say that the Jews believed Uzayr was the son of God, it says quite clearly that they said he was the son of God. So, the Qur'an was responding to an explicit proclamation of the Jews. Either the Jews were intentionally lying, or they actually believed what they said - but in any event the Qur'an can't be wrong since the Jews of Madinah actually said this.

:w

Guest wrote:

Take a look at the context, if that Sura says that Jews at "ONE POINT" believed that Ezra was the Son of God, then Christians at "ONE POINT" believed that Jesus was the Son of God.

Yes, it does not speak about the beliefs of anyone - it says the Jews SAY, i.e. it was responding to a verbal statement made by the Jews of Madinah.[/quote]

[Snowflake]

Scientific proof that the moon had once split

http://fesabilillah.wordpress.com/20...oon-splitting/

[eagleye]

"absence of proof is not proof of absence". In other words, just because we don't have Judaic records that shows that Jews believed this, does not prove that no Jews ever believed this!

nor does it verifies jews did.
as I replied before: "circulated in Islamic believes"

but in any event the Qur'an can't be wrong since the Jews of Madinah actually said this.

you committing circular reasoning.

[mustafajadeed]

Salam Alay Koom:

Quran: Sura 9 Tauba Ayat 30:

"The Jews call 'Uzair (Ezra) a son of The God, and the Christians call Al masih (the Messiah) the son of The God. That is a saying from their mouth; In this they but imitate what the believers of old used to say. The God's Curse be on them: How they are deluded away from the Truth."

If the Book of the God says it happened, It happened. It has not lied to me in over forty years, so I do not expect for it to do so now.

Ezra the Priest, when you look him up in the Bible, was a man dedicated to fulfilling the Law, and he did (which also refutes those who say:"No one can accomplish the Law...add him to Zakariah father(?) of Yayah ("John"- as is if he were an Englishman-the Baptist, and his mother "Elizabeth". See: the beggining of "Luke".), so I take nothing away from him except what people have added.

Would they call someone:"SOG" (Astogfirullah) and worship him? If Isa Ibn Maryam Al Masih (Isa son of Maryam the Messiah- Called "Jesus" by the Gentiles/ Romans) is an example, they most certainly would.

But now you have the verse itself to "work with" as a concrete Item.

Ma Salam

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

you committing circular reasoning.

Not quite eagleye; it would be petitio principii if we were using the Qur'an as the source to validate the Qur'an, but in this case we are citing independent historical narrations documented by Al-Qurtubi, At-Tabari, Al-Baydawi, etc. Note also that the posts of mine quoted by brother Fi_Sabilillah were responding to a specific allegation against the Qur'an on this point. As such, I pointed out that it is entirely plausible (and due to the historical narrations quite likely) that the Jews of Madinah made such a statement.

But of course this is the topic of the other thread, and anyone who wishes tyo continue the discussion here must do so in the other thread. The topic of the present thread is the moon splitting which has been addressed in the second post.

Regards

[vpb]

Scientific proof that the moon had once split

http://fesabilillah.wordpress.com/20...oon-splitting/

just posting the correct link again cuz it was '...' on the link
http://fesabilillah.wordpress.com/20...oon-splitting/

[Allah-creation]

well, how long was the moon split, was it just few min or sec? if so then the chances of people looking up at the moon in that period of time is probably low.

[eagleye]

Not quite eagleye; it would be petitio principii if we were using the Qur'an as the source to validate the Qur'an, but in this case we are citing independent historical narrations documented by Al-Qurtubi, At-Tabari, Al-Baydawi, etc. Note also that the posts of mine quoted by brother Fi_Sabilillah were responding to a specific allegation against the Qur'an on this point. As such, I pointed out that it is entirely plausible (and due to the historical narrations quite likely) that the Jews of Madinah made such a statement.

the only source I'm familiar with is of Quran that proclaim this.
the article suggest other sources but does not offer the references to these narrations. still such narrations are of Islamic believe just as Quran is. and one depends in the other i.e the ahadith dependent on Quran to be validated to be authentic. thus Quran says so therefore ahadith correct.
as demonstrated by previous post I've replied.
it is no differ from Torah validates the Talmud or vice versa.
just cause the speak same tone does not validates historically as both speaks of events that yet proven be true. it is enigma.

[eagleye]

what does it mean splitting the moon?
like two halves separated and far from each other and clearly seen both pieces?

[Hemoo]

eagleye,

show us any scientific proven evidence that denies the spliting of the moon.

even the cosmology scientists didn't do a full geographic scan to the moon to be able to know for sure if it was split or not.

so enough talking about this subject untill you have an evidence that contradicts with what is mentioned in Quran and Hadith.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

the only source I'm familiar with is of Quran that proclaim this.
the article suggest other sources but does not offer the references to these narrations.

Yes it does. See the notes in the quotation from Mohar Ali (ra).

thus Quran says so therefore ahadith correct.

I'm afraid that's not correct. The Ahâdîth have an independent system of classification based on the dual isnâd-matn system. Read up on Mustalah al-Hadith and its associated fields of study like Jarh wa Ta'dîl, 'Ilal, Tadlîs, etc.

As for splitting of the moon, see the second post for the description.

Regards

[eagleye]

eagleye,

show us any scientific proven evidence that denies the spliting of the moon.

even the cosmology scientists didn't do a full geographic scan to the moon to be able to know for sure if it was split or not.

so enough talking about this subject untill you have an evidence that contradicts with what is mentioned in Quran and Hadith.

am I claiming the split? :D

[eagleye]

Yes it does. See the notes in the quotation from Mohar Ali (ra).

I'm afraid that's not correct. The Ahâdîth have an independent system of classification based on the dual isnâd-matn system. Read up on Mustalah al-Hadith and its associated fields of study like Jarh wa Ta'dîl, 'Ilal, Tadlîs, etc.

As for splitting of the moon, see the second post for the description.

Regards

thank you for your commnets.

I was referring to narrations from ahadith put aside the narrators.

it is however off topic.

[islamirama]

i have an article which i'll share inshallah tonight. It talks about that king that witnessed it and travel to mecca to find out about it. It also shows one of the descendeds of the king talking about it recently in india.

[rav]

eagleye,

show us any scientific proven evidence that denies the spliting of the moon.

even the cosmology scientists didn't do a full geographic scan to the moon to be able to know for sure if it was split or not.

so enough talking about this subject untill you have an evidence that contradicts with what is mentioned in Quran and Hadith.

Shalom,

I do not wish to intrude, however, I must ask, since the Quran makes the claim, why must he provide evidence?

...the quote that I gave from Muhammad Asad, a former Jew himself, who pointed out that, as mentioned in At-Tabari's tafsir, some Jews came to the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and said, "How can we follow you when you do not believe Uzayr is the son of God?". Noice that the Qur'an doesn't say that the Jews believe Uzayr is the son of God, but the Qur'an is very precise in saying that the Jews say Uzayr is the son of God. Thus, it cannot be a contradiction in any way since the Qur'an is only responding to the verbal proclamation of a group of Jews!

Shalom,

It would be wonderful if you could provide any sort of proof of this claim, such as one sefer, or piece of writing from this group that claimed Ezra was a "god".

[islamirama]

Hindu Patron of Muslim Heritage Site

http://www.iosworld.org/interview_cheramul.htm

[The interviewer is a Delhi-based senior journalist. He can be contacted at au_asif@yahoo.co.in]

The 87-year-old Raja Valiyathampuram of Kodungallur in Central Kerala is a descendant of King Cheraman Perumal [also known as King Chakrawati Farmas ], the first Indian to embrace Islam in the early 7th century. Talking to him is like talking with history. In the following interview taken by A U Asif (right in the picture) in Ernakulam, he dwells in detail upon his great early ancestor and the oldest mosque (above) of the sub-continent. He also asks North Indians to come to Kerala and see how people of different religions are living there for centuries in an atmosphere of harmony, fraternity and peace.



How do you take your great great grandfather Cheraman Perumal?


Cheraman Perumal was not only a king and my ancestor, but the first Indian to come into the fold of Islam. He was actually the person who gifted Islam and the first ever mosque to the Indian sub-continent. This happened much before the advents of Muhammad bin Qasim and Mahmood Ghaznavi. This shows that Islam didn't come to India with the sword.



Is it a fact?


As is well known in Kerala, on a moon-lit night the king while walking on the rooftop of his palace along with the queen saw the moon suddenly splitting into two halves. Later he came to know through the Arab traders that that a prophet called Muhammad had wrought a miracle on that fateful night and sundered the moon before a crowd of dazed spectators. Impressed by this new messenger of God in Arabia, the king set out for the holy land after dividing his kingdom and assigning various territories to local chieftains to ensure smooth governance. In Arabia he met the Prophet and embraced Islam in the presence of Abu Bakr Siddique, who later became the first caliph. Cheraman, who took a Muslim name, Tajuddin, died on his way back to India and was buried on the shore of the Arabian Sea at Salala in the Sultanate of Oman. It is said that he had earlier written letters to the local rulers of Malabar and sent it through his ministers along with Malik bin Dinar, a companion of the Prophet. In the letters he had asked them to "receive the bearers of the letters and treat them well and help them to construct mosques at Kodungallur and elsewhere". The rulers of Kerala honored the letters and permitted Malik Bin Dinar and his fellow Arab traders to build mosques in Kerala. The mosque built in the early 7th century at Kodungallur, known as Cheraman Malik Masjid, still exists with its original structure and is said to be the oldest mosque in the sub-continent. It is named after both Cheraman Perumal and Malik bin Dinar.



Is the mosque intact with its original structure?


Yes, the original structure, including the sanctum sanctorum, remains intact. However, there have been a few extensions in the past. Its front portion is new while the back portion with its sanctum sanctorum, mehrab, mimbar (pulpit), wooden work on the roof of mimbar and traditional lamp as well as the ancient ceremonial pond, is still untouched.



Anything more about Malik Bin Dinar?


After the construction of the mosque at Kodungallur, Malik bin Dinar moved towards Mangalore and died at Kasaragod, now in Karnataka, where rests in peace. Interestingly, Cheraman Perumal and Malik bin Dinar are buried on two sides of the Arabian Sea, one at Salala in the Sultanate of Oman and the other at Kasaragod in India. In other words, their graves are interlinked by the waters of the sea. There exist 14 mosques of the same pattern and design from Kodungallur to Mangalore.



How do you see all this?


We see all this with pride. There is no question of any ill-feeling about Cheraman Perumal. We have high regard for him. He was our patriarch. He embraced Islam but could not come back from Arabia as he fell ill and died on way. I hail from his lineage and have faith in Hinduism.



How do the general people, particularly Hindus consider Cheraman and his gift in form of the first ever mosque in the Indian sub-continent?


People belonging to different religions, including Hindus, hold him in high esteem and the mosque built as per his wish as a historical monument. The historic mosque has been visited by numerous dignitaries over the centuries and decades.


President Dr A P J Abdul Kalam was recently here. He was given a warm reception in the mosque. I was also among those present on the occasion.


Unlike North India, there is no communal strife over places of worship in South India?


No, not at all. In this part of land exist India's oldest places of worship. The first synagogue, the first church, the first mosque and the ancient Bhagwathi and Mahadeva temples are located in this region. We have maintained a record of exemplary communal harmony here. I often wonder about the sudden eruption of controversy over places of worship. Unlike north, people of all faiths have high regard for all places of worship. My suggestion is: People in the north should come to Kerala and see and learn how we belonging to different religions live here for centuries without any communal hatred, animosity and strife.

Did The Prophet Muhammad split the moon as a miracle?

An Indian King Witness of Moon Splitting

Perumathura:



History: The history of Perumathura dates back from the period of the Legendary King Cheraman Perumal who ruled South India during the 8th century A.D. The name Perumathura (meaning residence of Perumal) was derived from the Late Kings name. It is believed that Cheraman Peruamal converted to Islam during his stay at Perumathura. The mainland Perumathura and it's surrounding islands - Kottaramthuruthu, Cheramanthuruthu and Madanvila are all related in one way or another to Cheraman Perumal.

The Present Scenario: The present population of Peruamthura is around 8000, 95% of them belonging to the Islamic community, this is due to the effect of Cherman Perumal's conversion to Islam. 4% are follower's of the Christian faith and the balance worship the Hindu gods. The economy of Perumathura mostly depends on the income generated by the people working in the Arabian Gulf States. Other sources of income include from the traditional cottage industry of coir manufacturing, fishing, trading, coconut farming etc. Coir is manufactured from coconut husk which after a cumbersome process is transformed into variety of coir products. The coir products are sold mainly to the coir mills of Alappuzha & Cochin from where it is exported to many countries. Perumathura boasts of 100% literacy. A good percent of them are well educated and are well placed in the government and private sector. Perumathura has many firsts to its credit including the first Muslim doctor from Kerala.

[Hemoo]

am I claiming the split? :D

the Quran and sunna had already proven their honesty and accuracy in many other subjects, thats why it is easy to believe that any thing that is mentioned in them is true.

on the other way, it is not a good thing for you to speak in a matter that you don't have a knowledge about.

that's why if you can refute this fact then do it, otherwise if you don't have any thing that contradicts it then you can't just deny it.

because the absence of proof is not a proof of absence.

I do not wish to intrude, however, I must ask, since the Quran makes the claim, why must he provide evidence?

in the same way that you may use to prove to him (eagleye) that God talked to moses (peace be upon him), we muslims prove that the moon did split in the time of the prophet (peace be upon him).

and as you don't have a recorded Audio tape of what you claim, i don't have neither a picture nor a recorded video of the moon splitting event.

but after all you rav will never be able to logically prove what is mentioned in your holy books which claims that God regrets and tears come out from God's eyes and he needs to rest after doing hard jobs (sabbath) and that God only realize things after he create them, etc.


because we know that Allah is far above any kind of imperfection and too exalted for commiting those actions.

here is the verses that is 100% compatible with the rightious human logic.

in the Quranic meaning translation:

003.165surely Allah has power over all things.

Also

050.038And certainly We created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six periods and there touched Us not any fatigue.

[peace800]

Many people have asked what evidence apart from an Indian seeing the moon split is there? I know that it couldnt have been seen by everyone due to time zones but is there some more evidence of this?

[nocturne]

Salam brother,

I came across the picture that was taken by NASA,showing the moon being split and then joined back.

[Umar001]

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...plit-moon.html

Might help

[nocturne]

Salam brother,

I remember coming across a picture that showed that the moon has being split.

Here are some sources:

http://islambyquestions.net/miracles/moon.htm

[nocturne]

Message Removed By User

[proudmuslim]

One of the greatest and most renowned mujizas(miracles) of Muhammad (sallallahu alyhi wasallam) was the splitting of the moon into two. This mujiza never fell to the lot of any other Prophet. When Muhammad (sallallahu alyhi wasallam) was fifty-two years old, the leaders of the disbelievers from the Quraish came up to him and said, "If you are a prophet, split the moon into two parts." Muhammad (sallallahu alyhi wasallam) dearly wanted everybody, especially his relatives and his friends, to covert to Islam. He prayed raising up his hands. Allahu ta'ala accepted his prayers and split the moon into two parts. Each half of the moon was seen above different mountains. The disbelievers said, "Muhammad performed magic for us." So they did not become Muslims.Here is the sign today, check image:
http://www.answering-christianity.co...n_12202006.jpg

[Encolpius]

One of the greatest and most renowned mujizas(miracles) of Muhammad (sallallahu alyhi wasallam) was the splitting of the moon into two. This mujiza never fell to the lot of any other Prophet. When Muhammad (sallallahu alyhi wasallam) was fifty-two years old, the leaders of the disbelievers from the Quraish came up to him and said, "If you are a prophet, split the moon into two parts." Muhammad (sallallahu alyhi wasallam) dearly wanted everybody, especially his relatives and his friends, to covert to Islam. He prayed raising up his hands. Allahu ta'ala accepted his prayers and split the moon into two parts. Each half of the moon was seen above different mountains. The disbelievers said, "Muhammad performed magic for us." So they did not become Muslims.Here is the sign today, check image:
http://www.answering-christianity.co...n_12202006.jpg

Do you have a source for that picture, i.e. who or what took it, and what lunar geographical feature it's of?

[جوري]

Do you have a source for that picture, i.e. who or what took it, and what lunar geographical feature it's of?

this pic can be seen on this website
another source

peace!

[Trumble]

Do you have a source for that picture, i.e. who or what took it, and what lunar geographical feature it's of?

One of those 'miracles' that I suspect is best left as a faith issue. If the Qur'an says the moon was split, and you are a muslim, you will believe it was split. If you are not, there no significant evidence that it actually happened. The photo shows the Ariadaeus Rille, which as the article says is one of several such features, all with differing orientations. It is some 300km long.. the moon is over ten times that distance in diameter; in other words if the NASA photo had included one end or the other of the rille you wouldn't be seeing it on Islamic websites!

What I find strangest about this particular 'miracle' is that it just doesn't seem to fit in with anything else. Mohammed is otherwise shown to be a 'regular guy' (compared with the Christian conception of Jesus) who was only different because he was chosen to receive God's revelation. Then you have this 'miracle' which, if it occurred, makes healing lepers, raising the dead and such look like cheap parlour tricks. It makes no sense.

[------]

:sl:

http://fesabilillah.wordpress.com/20...oon-splitting/


:w:

:salamext:

:eek: Subhaan Allaah!!!!!!! :D :D :D

[Anwarica]

:sl:
To add another link (I didn't see it posted) here's the official page on NASA about the moon indentation

Explanation: What could cause a long indentation on the Moon?

:)

[Makky]

[Farhan1]

Aslamu Alaikum Brothers/Sisters
This Moon Split even is mentioned in Great Wall of china where people witnessed it.

[Abdul-Raouf]

Aslamu Alaikum Brothers/Sisters
This Moon Split even is mentioned in Great Wall of china where people witnessed it.

Masha'allah

Alhamdulillah

ALLAHU AKBAR!

Here are are few threads related to Moon Splitting

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...st-masjid.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...splitting.html

[K.Venugopal]

The Moon had split into two distinct parts in front of their very eyes. The two parts had separated and receded so much apart from each other that to the on-lookers (in Makkah) one part had appeared on one side of the mountain and the other on the other side of it. Then, in an instant the two had rejoined.

The splitting of the moon has been mentioned in the Quran and hadiths. However, you mention "in an instant the two had rejoined". Is it mentioned in the Quran or the hadiths specifically that the split moon "rejoined in an instant"?

[AntiKarateKid]

It is important to know that there are 2, yes TWO implications of this verse. One is the splitting of the moon with the Prophet )pbuh) and this other one is probably even more explicit as it provides a modern day renewal of this verse with the lunar landing.

http://www.---------------/miracle/moon.html


The above link shows one of the greatest things I have ever read. If people don't consider what that link says as a sign. They are lost.

[Azy]

To help illustrate Trumble's point I found another image of this feature.

from [This Website]

Slightly above and to the right of the image centre you can see the rille in question. These occur in many places on the surface of the moon and in different directions.

[جوري]

circumferential 'riles' are caused by a circumferential disturbance...

the same way burns leave scars.. souvenirs of what happened once upon a time!

[S1aveofA11ah]

:sl:

There are many ahadeeths that say that Prophet Mohammad (saw) had split the moon (Sahih Bukhari #830, #832, #208, #209, #210, #211, #387 etc..)


Many non-Muslims say that if the moon was split by Prophet Mohammad (saw) then the whole world would've witnessed this great event but there is no evidence to suggest this. What should I say? The Qur'aan also confirms this miracle:

اقْتَرَبَتِ السَّاعَةُ وَانشَقَّ الْقَمَرُ

The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.

Jazak Allah

:ws:

Asalaamualaikum

Just a quick note. Apparantly recently scientists studied the core of the moon and found rock patterns that they said could ONLY be there if the moon had once been SPLIT!!!. There is a short documentary about this somewhere on YouTube (I think). Even more amazing a non-Muslim was hearing about this event from another person i.e. moon splitting and then later went home and watched a documentary about it on TV and was shocked about this rock formation/idea of the moon having been split once - it matched what he heard - and he accepted Islam!.

[Azy]

Asalaamualaikum

Just a quick note. Apparantly recently scientists studied the core of the moon and found rock patterns that they said could ONLY be there if the moon had once been SPLIT!!!. There is a short documentary about this somewhere on YouTube (I think). Even more amazing a non-Muslim was hearing about this event from another person i.e. moon splitting and then later went home and watched a documentary about it on TV and was shocked about this rock formation/idea of the moon having been split once - it matched what he heard - and he accepted Islam!.

Something a bit more specific than 'a friend of a friend saw something' might be helpful in this case.
Please :)

[Whatsthepoint]

circumferential 'riles' are caused by a circumferential disturbance...

the same way burns leave scars.. souvenirs of what happened once upon a time!

Seeing that riles have different directions several moon splittings must have happened in the past.

[جوري]

Seeing that riles have different directions several moon splittings must have happened in the past.

we have documentation of just one.. I haven't seen but one concentric rile.. but if you say so.. then sure why not.. your hypothesis are as good as the next guy!

cheers

[Whatsthepoint]

we have documentation of just one.. I haven't seen but one concentric rile.. but if you say so.. then sure why not.. your hypothesis are as good as the next guy!

cheers

Of course there are others, some even longer.

This one for instance is Rimae Sirsalis, its straight and also longer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimae_Sirsalis
If you read the article, you'll find out this one is much more peculiar than the Rima Ariadaeus. Perhaps Muslim apologist ought to start using this one.

[جوري]

Of course there are others, some even longer.

This one for instance is Rimae Sirsalis, its straight and also longer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimae_Sirsalis
If you read the article, you'll find out this one is much more peculiar than the Rima Ariadaeus. Perhaps Muslim apologist ought to start using this one.

Did the 'Muslim apologists' choose the rima sirsalis over the more 'peculiar' rima aridaus for the conventional representation of that event?

I have stated a few pages back that Islam isn't requiring a proof of a miracle for support to its constitution or establishment, further Ansar also tells you a few pages back that, this miracle which by definition an event out of the ordinary manifesting a supernatural act of a divine agent was meant for folks of querysh, who not unlike you have rebuffed it aside though were an actual eye witness to it:

IN THE NAME OF GOD, THE MOST GRACIOUS, THE DISPENSER OF GRACE:

THE LAST HOUR AND MOON SPLIT ASUNDER

(1) THE LAST HOUR draws near, and the moon is split asunder! [Most of the commentators see in this verse a reference to a phenomenon said to have been witnessed by several of the Prophet’s contemporaries. As described in a number of reports going back to some Companions, the moon appeared one night as if split into two distinct parts. While there is no reason to doubt the subjective veracity of these reports, it is possible that what actually happened was an unusual kind of partial lunar eclipse, which produced an equally unusual optical illusion. But whatever the nature of that phenomenon, it is practically certain that the above Quran-verse does not refer to it but, rather, to a future event: namely, to what will happen when the Last Hour approaches. (The Quran frequently employs the past tense to denote the future, and particularly so in passages which speak of the coming of the Last Hour and of Resurrection Day; this use of the past tense is meant to stress the certainty of the happening to which the verb relates.) Thus, Raghib regards it as fully justifiable to interpret the phrase inshaqqa l-qamar (“the moon is split asunder”) as bearing on the cosmic cataclysm - the end of the world as we know it - that will occur before the coming of Resurrection Day (see art. shaqq in the Mufradat). As mentioned by Zamakhshari, this interpretation has the support of some of the earlier com*mentators; and it is, to my mind, particularly convincing in view of the juxtaposition, in the above Quran-verse, of the moon’s “splitting asunder” and the approach of the Last Hour. (In this connection we must bear in mind the fact that none of the Quranic allusions to the “nearness” of the Last Hour and the Day of Resurrection is based on the human concept of “time”.)] (2) But if they [who reject all thought of the Last Hour] were to see a sign [of its approach], they would turn aside and say, “An ever-recurring delusion!” - (3) for they are bent on giving it the lie,* being always wont to follow their own desires. [*Lit., “they have given [it] the lie”: an allusion to the prediction of the Last Hour and the Day of Resurrection. The use of the past tense indicates conscious intent or determination (cf. 2: 6). For my rendering of sihr as “delusion”, see 74: 24.] Yet everything reveals its truth in the end. [Lit., “everything is settled in its [own] being”: i.e., everything has an intrinsic reality (haqiqah) of its own, and is bound to reveal that reality either in this world or in the next (Baghawi, on the authority of Al-Kalbi); hence, everything must have a purpose or “goal” of its own (Zamakhshari). These two - mutually complementary - interpretations reflect the repeated Quranic statement that everything that exists or happens has a meaning and a purpose: cf. 3: 191, 10: 5 and 38: 27 (particularly, see note on 10: 5). In the present context, the phrase relates both to the truth referred to in the preceding verses and to its rejection by those who are “wont to follow [but] their own desires”. (4) And withal, there has come unto them many a tiding that should have restrained [their arrogance]: [Lit., “in which there was a restraint”: i.e., many an indication, in observable nature, of God’s creative and re-creative power, as well as many a tiding, through God-inspired prophets, of a continuation of life after bodily death and, therefore, of the fact that a person’s attitudes and doings in this world must have definite consequences in the life to come.] (5) far-reaching wisdom [was held out to them]: but [since] all warnings have been of no avail, (6) turn thou away from them. On the Day when the Summoning Voice will sum*mon [man] unto something that the mind cannot conceive, [Lit., “something not known (nukur)” - that is, “something that human beings cannot know [i.e., visualize] because they have never met with anything like it” (Zamakhshari).] (7) they will come forth from their graves, with their eyes downcast, [swarming about] like locusts scattered [by the wind], (8) running in con*fusion towards the Summoning Voice; [and] those who [now] deny the truth will exclaim, “Calamitous is this Day!”

http://www.geocities.com/masad02/040

[Whatsthepoint]

Did the 'Muslim apologists' choose the rima sirsalis over the more 'peculiar' rima aridaus for the conventional representation of that event?

I'm guessing they chose the first straight line on the moon they could find.
What I'm sying is that the Sisraslis rille is longer, as well as more interesting, its formation isn't exactly clear, some even say impossible... so the Sirsalis rille would be a cooler piece of evidence, if nothign else.

I have stated a few pages back that Islam isn't requiring a proof of a miracle for support to its constitution or establishment

Yet there are many websites claiming the rille is a proof of the splitting of the moon. Then there's what Slave of Allah claims to have seen and plent of other stuff.
Some people just like "proving" their claims or beliefs.

[AntiKarateKid]

if you want a modern day renewal of it, like I said earlier, it refers to the exact moment the lunar shuttle left the moon.

EXACT TIME 54:1

The moon has split or separated into two parts refers ALSO to the tons of moon rock they brought back to earth.

The shuttle left witht he rocks at exactly 54:1

[جوري]

I'm guessing they chose the first straight line on the moon they could find.

The line should be concentric not straight no? I don't believe anyone here has put a name on it!

What I'm sying is that the Sisraslis rille is longer, as well as more interesting, its formation isn't exactly clear, some even say impossible... so the Sirsalis rille would be a cooler piece of evidence, if nothign else.

Ok!

Yet there are many websites claiming the rille is a proof of the splitting of the moon. Then there's what Slave of Allah claims to have seen and plent of other stuff.
Some people just like "proving" their claims or beliefs.

so? Muslims have offered an explanation for such grooves.. which you don't like or perhaps have a better one ..

cheers

[K.Venugopal]

Dear Skye Ephémérine, That Mohammad split the moon is written in the Quran and Hadiths. But was its rejoining also explicitly written? Or are we taking it as obvious because we see only one moon today?

[جوري]

Does it say in the quran and hadith that 'Mohammed' split the moon?

cheers

[K.Venugopal]

Does it say in the quran and hadith that 'Mohammed' split the moon?

cheers

If not, on what basis do Muslims claim that Mohammad split the moon?

[جوري]

Perhaps you should read the chapter on it before asking questions? it seems like a more logical sequence to me!

cheers

[K.Venugopal]

Perhaps you should read the chapter on it before asking questions? it seems like a more logical sequence to me!

cheers

Which chapter and in which book?

[Sami234]

Excuse me?

:sl:

Most Muslims don't understand the verse that says :

"The Jews said : 'Uzayr is the son of God"

We are speaking about only a group of Jews.

This is the tafsir of Ibn Taymiyya.

The same could be said about worshping the golden at the time of Moses... it was not the entire people of Israel that whorshipped him... since Moses did not worship him.



To return to the main subjet, im asking you 2 things :

Why do you believe in Moses?

Second, the Moon split occur, and this is nearly a fact. You know why? Because we can easily prove that the surah was read during the time of the prophet. So, during his life, he claimed at his ennemies that "you have seen the moon split and you say that this is magic". If it was false, then this claim would have been a sufficient proof that Muhammad is a liar. It is exaclty as if Moses came in front of Pharaoh and told him "Didn't you see me do all thoses miracles? Admit it, you saw me do so and so, don't you fear God? Won't you let the son of Israel go freely?" BEFORE he did any miracle.

Pharaoh would have been "Ok guys, plz, put this crazy guy in jail or get rid of him."

Secondly, that would be a problem if everyone on the globe had seen the moon split. You know why? Because they would all say : "This is our god who did that". Hence, the prophet Muhammad would just be one other guy claiming that his god did so. So that would not be a miracle. That would just be like saying "it is my god who sent water from the sky", which is not a proof that Allah is the only god. Someone else could claim that Zeus do that.

Finally, about your comment that we believe that people will eternaly all go in hell-fire :

You know that there is abolutely no-one on earth now that follows the so-called 7 law of Moses.

We (muslims) are the only monotheistic religion, and we don't follow the seven law since Jihad is part of our religion. So we kill, and Muslims and Jews fought a lot during history. Maimonid was saying, according to wikipedia, that Muhamaad did an error by "creating" Islam because it caused a lot of problem to the jews.

So there is absolutely no one on earth following theses laws. So please, tell me, what will happen to everyone except you (the jews)? What about Hitler and Staline? Can you quote your Torah about this issue? Thank you very much.

PS : Sorry for mistakes, my English is not perfect.

[Sami234]

nor does it verifies jews did.
as I replied before: "circulated in Islamic believes"

you committing circular reasoning.

Nope, you just don't understand.

If it was a lie, he would have been unconvered since everyone can verify this claim. Anyone would just be like "Is there any jew saying that? No? Then he lies.

And it is not because it comes from Muslim sources that it is false.

Anyway, we absolutely don't need a proof. I don't have to proove that a group of Jews say that. It has absolutely no importance.

[faizan786]

Jazak'Allah for the informative video & post. Reading through everybody's hypotheses was also interesting, continuous debate back & forth..back and forth. :)