/* */

PDA

View Full Version : Contemporary Jurisprudence



snakelegs
11-28-2006, 12:51 AM
i have been browsing around on http://islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng
lately and read the fatwa below and this reminded me of some questions i've had for a while.
mainly, in the case of modern extrapolation from the principles of shariah, how do you decide which scholar to go by, as there is always a diversity of interpretations?
do you just believe someone else who tells you sheikh so-and-so is the one to follow or do you read a variety of positions of contemporary scholars and then decide for yourself? who decides which modern technologies are ok to rely on and which not? how do you know the reasoning that led to the decision below?

How can zinaa be proven?

Question:
I know that in the past if someone has committed adultery, they had to bring 4 witnesses .
My question is can we prove that today by using latest scientific methods as the DNA test, instead of bringing 4 witnesses.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

According to Islamic sharee’ah, zinaa can only be proven by clear evidence, namely the testimony of four trustworthy and sound witnesses who saw it actually happen, or by confession of guilt, or by the woman becoming pregnant. It cannot be proven by DNA testing or by use of cameras and videos in place of the things mentioned above. And Allaah knows best.


http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=6926&ln=eng
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Umar001
11-28-2006, 01:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
i have been browsing around on http://islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng
lately and read the fatwa below and this reminded me of some questions i've had for a while.
mainly, in the case of modern extrapolation from the principles of shariah, how do you decide which scholar to go by, as there is always a diversity of interpretations?
do you just believe someone else who tells you sheikh so-and-so is the one to follow or do you read a variety of positions of contemporary scholars and then decide for yourself? who decides which modern technologies are ok to rely on and which not? how do you know the reasoning that led to the decision below?

How can zinaa be proven?

Question:
I know that in the past if someone has committed adultery, they had to bring 4 witnesses .
My question is can we prove that today by using latest scientific methods as the DNA test, instead of bringing 4 witnesses.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

According to Islamic sharee’ah, zinaa can only be proven by clear evidence, namely the testimony of four trustworthy and sound witnesses who saw it actually happen, or by confession of guilt, or by the woman becoming pregnant. It cannot be proven by DNA testing or by use of cameras and videos in place of the things mentioned above. And Allaah knows best.


http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=6926&ln=eng
Yea I wanted to ask something similar, it says those who say it, well what if they see the video tape?
Reply

syilla
11-28-2006, 01:18 AM
i think brother Al-Ansar has already answered this question in this link

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ariah-law.html (regarding the dna test....but you have to do a bit of searching)

and another

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...ape-islam.html (i think this is more specific to the crime rape test)
Reply

syilla
11-28-2006, 01:31 AM
Having said that, let me now provide you with a brief explanation on the conditions for the Hadd punishment for zina (adultery) in Islam. One of the aims of the Islamic state is the protection and preservation of society from harm. The Islamic state is not aimed at monitoring the religious commitment of its citizens, rather it aims to ensure that corruption does not spread in society. The punishment for adultery requires 4 individual witnesses. There is a purpose for this massive burden of evidence. As Shaykh Abdul-Wahhab At-Turayri, former Professor at Al-Imam Univeristy [Riyadh, Saudi Arabia], writes:
The punishments for fornication and adultery are designed more to protect society from the open practice of licentious sexual behavior than they are designed to punish people.

It is nearly impossible to get a conviction for adultery except in a case where it is carried out in public for all eyes to see. With this threat of severe punishment, people will keep their evil deeds concealed and society as a whole will be protected.

So if someone commits a sin in private, they will be held accountable before God for that sin. But the function of the Islamic state, in terms of penal law, is to protect the society from harm. If people practice immoral deeds publicly then they are not only sinning themselves, but they are harming the society by spreading their immorality, and it is the latter action that requires the intervention of the state.
i hope this will help...
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
snakelegs
11-28-2006, 02:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
i think brother Al-Ansar has already answered this question in this link

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ariah-law.html (regarding the dna test....but you have to do a bit of searching)

and another

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...ape-islam.html (i think this is more specific to the crime rape test)
thanks syilla - will check this out later when i have more time.
it wasn't the specific topic i was wondering about, but how these conclusions are reached and who determines how to apply the law to modern life and technologies.
Reply

snakelegs
11-28-2006, 05:31 AM
just realized that this thread should've gone in the islamic jurisprudence sectiion. sorry.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
11-28-2006, 07:03 AM
There is considerable leniency in extrapolating jurisprudential rules to modern technologies; this is based on Qiyâs (analogical deduction), which must be performed by one who is knowledgeable of the Islamic sources and has studied the Islamic sciences in detail so that they are fully aware of the laws which they are extrapolating.

The issue you mentioned about zina doesn't really apply here since this is a hadd punishment and it must have four witnesses as proven in the Qur'an and Sunnah. This is because the Islamic state does not want to punish and convict people for moral offenses, it only wishes to prevent the spreading of immoral practices which occurs through public licentious acts. Syilla quoted one of my earlier posts which explains this.

Here are some fatawa (religious rulings) that concern modern technologies/issues which I am sure you will find interesting:
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=25
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...&main_cat_id=1 <- :D
http://www.islamtoday.net/english/sh...sub_cat_id=553
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=31
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=31
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=31

Regards
Reply

snakelegs
11-28-2006, 07:32 AM
thanks ansar. i will check these out later. just finished reading the links syilla gave. they didn't quite answer my questions, but they were really interesting to read and i learned a lot from them about shariah. i see now that i have often judged the interpretation and use/abuse made by some governments of the shariah as being identical to the shariah itself.
syilla - thanks - i really enjoyed reading those. lotsa material there!
Reply

syilla
11-28-2006, 07:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
oh no...do you want to band the emoticon. :rollseyes (oh dear...pity you smiley)
Reply

snakelegs
11-30-2006, 12:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
There is considerable leniency in extrapolating jurisprudential rules to modern technologies; this is based on Qiyâs (analogical deduction), which must be performed by one who is knowledgeable of the Islamic sources and has studied the Islamic sciences in detail so that they are fully aware of the laws which they are extrapolating.

The issue you mentioned about zina doesn't really apply here since this is a hadd punishment and it must have four witnesses as proven in the Qur'an and Sunnah. This is because the Islamic state does not want to punish and convict people for moral offenses, it only wishes to prevent the spreading of immoral practices which occurs through public licentious acts. Syilla quoted one of my earlier posts which explains this.

Here are some fatawa (religious rulings) that concern modern technologies/issues which I am sure you will find interesting:
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=25
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...&main_cat_id=1 <- :D
http://www.islamtoday.net/english/sh...sub_cat_id=553
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=31
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=31
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=31

Regards
thanks for those links - you're right, i did find them intersting (and sensible, too!). the one that i found the most fascinating is the one on cloning (which included other stuff - like abortion and stem cell research). others might want to check it out:

http://www.islamtoday.net/english/sh...sub_cat_id=553

my original question, though, was how do you know whose ruling to follow because there are cases where there would be difference of opinion among scholars. with things that don't have to do with modern dilemnas, you have that pretty well worked out in the concept of classification of hadith.
but in this case, how do you decide which sheikh, or do you just read as many different rulings as possible and then decide for yourself? (that would make the most sense to me).
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
11-30-2006, 08:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
do you just read as many different rulings as possible and then decide for yourself? (that would make the most sense to me).
Yes, it is the verdict most in accordance with the Qur'an and Ahadith.
Reply

snakelegs
11-30-2006, 11:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Yes, it is the verdict most in accordance with the Qur'an and Ahadith.
just want to make sure of what you're saying here. after reading rulings from various islamic scholars, untimately you (the individual musilm) are the one who makes the final decision as to which is most in accordance with the qur'an and ahadith?
is that right?
(actually this is the way i make decisions about news articles too - lots of different sources before making up my mind, so this principle makes sense to me).
thanks!
does anybody else have comments?
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
12-01-2006, 12:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
just want to make sure of what you're saying here. after reading rulings from various islamic scholars, untimately you (the individual musilm) are the one who makes the final decision as to which is most in accordance with the qur'an and ahadith?
Yes and no. This is the principle of how we decide which ruling is most correct, but in practice for the individual Muslim it depends on their knowledge base. If someone has very little knowledge of Qur'an and Ahadith, they will not be able to make a valid judgement on whether something is in accordance with the Qur'an and Ahadith or not. In this situation, they rely on those scholars with knowledge whom they have access too and whom they deem trustworthy.

Regards
Reply

snakelegs
12-01-2006, 01:09 AM
thanks!
Reply

Musalmaan
12-01-2006, 05:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Yes and no. This is the principle of how we decide which ruling is most correct, but in practice for the individual Muslim it depends on their knowledge base.
:sl:

i just like to know your opinion abt this statement "either you are mujhtahid or muqallid (of mujhtahid)",
do you agree to this well known term in Islam?

format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Yes, it is the verdict most in accordance with the Qur'an and Ahadith.

can you share that ayah with its tafseer which approves "you just read as many different rulings as possible and then decide for yourself"?

but, i hope my first question's answer is much more important for me which can make me know of your understanding/way etc.

wassalam
Reply

snakelegs
12-01-2006, 08:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Musalmaan
:sl:

i just like to know your opinion abt this statement "either you are mujhtahid or muqallid (of mujhtahid)",
do you agree to this well known term in Islam?

wassalam
no fair!! please translate -
does it mean something like you either stuggle (to learn) or you imitate?
thanks....
Reply

snakelegs
12-01-2006, 09:15 PM
please, somebody answer my last question......
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
12-01-2006, 09:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Musalmaan
:sl:

i just like to know your opinion abt this statement "either you are mujhtahid or muqallid (of mujhtahid)",
do you agree to this well known term in Islam?
If you already think it is a "well known term in Islam" then you don't need my opinion. All I will say is by all means follow a madh'hab, so long as you don't make it a source of division. I am not against following a madh'hab.

can you share that ayah with its tafseer which approves "you just read as many different rulings as possible and then decide for yourself"?
I never said that, those are your words not mine. In fact I specifically stated that the laymen CANNOT come to an informed decision about what is in accordance with the Qur'an and the Sunnah on their own. They need to rely on scholars. What I said is that the correct opinion is the one which is most in accordance with the Qur'an and Sunnah. And there are many legitimate differences of opinion in this regard.

:w:
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
12-01-2006, 09:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
no fair!! please translate -
does it mean something like you either stuggle (to learn) or you imitate?
thanks....
No; a mujtahid is the most knowledgeable scholar who is qualified to perform ijtihad (juristic opinion) to come to a ruling on a particular issue. A muqallid is someone who makes taqleed (blind following) on a particular scholar.

But we're already going off-topic here.

Regards
Reply

snakelegs
12-01-2006, 09:43 PM
thanks, ansar! i misread it as mujahid.
Reply

Musalmaan
12-02-2006, 10:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
If you already think it is a "well known term in Islam" then you don't need my opinion. All I will say is by all means follow a madh'hab, so long as you don't make it a source of division. I am not against following a madh'hab.


:w:
Thanks for the reply and clearing you position to remove misunderstanding among us.

jazak Allah khair.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
I never said that, those are your words not mine.

sorry bro, but if you can see at your post back that it is you who have approved the snake leg's verdict by saying " it is the verdict most in accordance with the Qur'an and Ahadith.", which really surprised me and cldnt stop asking you your position over it. anyways, thanks for the reply.


wassalam
Reply

Hijrah
12-02-2006, 12:26 PM
MOD: NOT A MADH'ABI vs. LA-MADH'HABI DEBATE THREAD.
Reply

snakelegs
12-02-2006, 11:00 PM
sorry, but i've been thinking about this and am still wondering.
a young muslim who is still learning (and there is a lot to learn in islam!) wants to know what is the proper way to deal with some contemporary issue. he checks out various websites, maybe talks to a few scholars. he gets different opinions. ultimately, isn't it his responsibility to use his own reason and choose which scholar to rely on? it is not a simple matter because he does not know enough to know for sure which ruling is the most in accordance with the with the qur'an and ahadith - if he did, he wouldn't need to turn to scholars in the first place.
ultimately, doesn't the responsibility fall on the individual?
this isn't about picking and choosing which is the easy way out, but assuming the individual is sincere and wants to be the best muslim he can be? is he supposed to just follow his choice authority blindly or make an honest search for knowledge?
Reply

Mohsin
12-06-2006, 11:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
sorry, but i've been thinking about this and am still wondering.
a young muslim who is still learning (and there is a lot to learn in islam!) wants to know what is the proper way to deal with some contemporary issue. he checks out various websites, maybe talks to a few scholars. he gets different opinions. ultimately, isn't it his responsibility to use his own reason and choose which scholar to rely on? it is not a simple matter because he does not know enough to know for sure which ruling is the most in accordance with the with the qur'an and ahadith - if he did, he wouldn't need to turn to scholars in the first place.
ultimately, doesn't the responsibility fall on the individual?
this isn't about picking and choosing which is the easy way out, but assuming the individual is sincere and wants to be the best muslim he can be? is he supposed to just follow his choice authority blindly or make an honest search for knowledge?
Masha'allah snakelegs you continue to impress me, a non-muslim asking these questions, subhanallah just from this forum i can already see you have a good understanding of what muslims do.

To answer your questions I will give my own view and experiences. In the city I live, there are various schools of thoughts, and all of them differ in the degree of follwoing of of the 4 famous imaams. (I'm assuming you know who I am talking about, if not, these are the 4 most famous mujtahids in Jurisprudence). Some here dont follow them 100% strictly, and schoalrs will often take views of more contemporary scholars such as sheikh yusuf kardawi or sheikh bin baaz.

Now this greatly had an affect on me. I would have two, sometimes 3 sets of scholars giving me different opinions on the same issue. they would all have their various proofs from the Quran and from the Hadith. I, myself being a layman, when these ayahs/hadith were put infront of me they didnt mean anything tom really, since I could clearly see there were great differneces of opinions on the smallest of issues. I would often find myself follong my desires and following the easiest choice apparent to me. And then on other times I would be even worse. You see sometimes there are different opinions and one may seem easy for a particluar situation, and on another occasion a different opinion on that matter would seem like an easier choice, so i would find myself always finding the easier way.

In the end I realised that was wrong. I was simply following my whims and desires. I read about Imam Abu Hanifah, how one of the greates mujtahids ever was a student of Imam Hammam, or Imam Hammad (cant quite remember the name), but he followed his imams rules fulkly untill the Imaam passed away and then Imasm Abu hanifah started out his own school of thought. It came to me the importance of sticking to the following of just one person. people can call this blind following if they wish, and may say how do you know he is trustworthy, but i would disgaree
If you find a scholar whom you trust, omeone you know who is pious, and fears Allah, and is conscious of every small move he makes aware of the fact he may be judged for it by allah SWT. Somebody who follows the sunnah of the prophet saw to every small degree. Somebody who,upon meeting him, you feel in peace and closer to islam, and after having spent time with him, when you leave you you feel you have come closer to Allah SWT and the Prophet PBUH. somebody f these qualities i would trust as a scholar who i would follow in all isues of jurisprudence.

I often find brothers going around fatwa shopping, who keep going around asking scholars questions and they'll keep asking untill they find a scholar who gives them an answer they are looking for. This happens too often on the net with all these different Q&A sites

Of course if i was more knowledgable, I would probbaly be a bit different, and would probably do what ansar al adl said, i would follow the opinion that in my opinion is most in accordance with the qur'an and sunnah

hope that helps
Reply

snakelegs
12-06-2006, 07:56 PM
thanks for your reply, mohsin.
do you think most people follow a mazhab? that would somewhat simplify matters, but how does a person choose a mazhab?
i can see how it could easily be overwhelming - there is so much to learn in islam. i guess the main challenge is to look in your own heart and make sure your intentions are sincere and that you are not just following someone because his rulings are more convenient. (which would be tempting).
the hard part would be the decision about finding a scholar you respect and trust - once you have done that, it would be fairly simple, tho i think you would also want to make sure you are not just following blindly.
even though you obviously need to rely on a scholar, you also must do your part (i think) and weigh the rulings against what you have learned so far.
there are so many things that come up in just daily living.
anyway, i appreciate your answer.
islam, like many other things, becomes more interesting the more you learn.
Reply

syilla
12-07-2006, 01:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
thanks for your reply, mohsin.
do you think most people follow a mazhab? that would somewhat simplify matters, but how does a person choose a mazhab?
i can see how it could easily be overwhelming - there is so much to learn in islam. i guess the main challenge is to look in your own heart and make sure your intentions are sincere and that you are not just following someone because his rulings are more convenient. (which would be tempting).
the hard part would be the decision about finding a scholar you respect and trust - once you have done that, it would be fairly simple, tho i think you would also want to make sure you are not just following blindly.
even though you obviously need to rely on a scholar, you also must do your part (i think) and weigh the rulings against what you have learned so far.
there are so many things that come up in just daily living.
anyway, i appreciate your answer.
islam, like many other things, becomes more interesting the more you learn.
actually there is a rulling if we want to say what mazhab we are in.

but first we have to really understand the mazhab...and history behind it.
Reply

Mohsin
12-07-2006, 06:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
thanks for your reply, mohsin.
do you think most people follow a mazhab? that would somewhat simplify matters, but how does a person choose a mazhab?
i can see how it could easily be overwhelming - there is so much to learn in islam. i guess the main challenge is to look in your own heart and make sure your intentions are sincere and that you are not just following someone because his rulings are more convenient. (which would be tempting).
the hard part would be the decision about finding a scholar you respect and trust - once you have done that, it would be fairly simple, tho i think you would also want to make sure you are not just following blindly.
even though you obviously need to rely on a scholar, you also must do your part (i think) and weigh the rulings against what you have learned so far.
there are so many things that come up in just daily living.
anyway, i appreciate your answer.
islam, like many other things, becomes more interesting the more you learn.
majority of muslims do follow a madhab. it is frowned upon by most muslims when a brother says i dont follow a madhab but instead follow the Quran and sunnah only. they clearly are not aware of what a madhab is.

Yes I agree with you about not following blindly, but the argument comes do you wnat to take up all your time finding out about the proofs behind minor issues such as where to put your hands in prayer etc. where instead you could be learning about things much more beneficial, such as the seerah of the prophet, the arabic language, memorising the qur'an, studying history of islam, learning about the companions. theres so much to study out there. I've know many brothers who decided to study proofs behind madhab rulings, but they wasted so much time, in the end they stopped half way through. they found that there was no clear-cut way, when they found a hadith that some scholars disagreed on, the position of a madhab was "well imam Abu hanifah and his 40 students found it to be authentic, I trust their opinion"

I just see it as some of the greates muslim scholars in our history: well known scholars such as Imam Nawawi, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Qayyim,Ibn Taymiyah they all followed schools of thoughts. I mean its unliklely that for over a millenia the muslim ummah has been misguided and following a school of thought, its illogical

Anyway I think I should stop there, as this is not a forum to discuss madhabi and anti-madhabi views.

Yep your right on finding a scholar whom you trsut 100%, but when you come accross them, from speaking to them you know they are special people, and everytime they speak they speak words of wisdom, and you never see them lie, not even in a little joke!

Also, I think we shouldnt forget, jurisprudence, or fiqhi issues are at the end of the day, in my eyes anyway, minor issues. I eman the differences scholars come to on issues are sually just slightly different from each other. Too big a fuss is made from these different fiqhi issues and huge divides are created, which when you think about it is very silly since they still believe in the same religion as you!
Reply

Musalmaan
12-08-2006, 10:21 AM
:sl:

one more thing tht i want to say here b4 i got headache again for my recursive thought, that taqleed has nothing to do with blind following, there is no relationship of taqleed with blind following.
it is virtue of taqleed via 4 authentic and accepted madhab of Swaad-e-Azam that many disputes ended and ordinary muslims is able to concentrate in learning and fulfulling the purposes of Salaah and all the ibadah in Islam rather than involving himself/herself into very useless matter.


Anyway, an article to understand madhab and taqleed from authentic source. Its long but its helpful, insha'Allah.

**********************

The word madhhab is derived from an Arabic word meaning "to go" or "to take as a way", and refers to a mujtahid's choice in regard to a number of interpretive possibilities in deriving the rule of Allah from the primary texts of the Qur'an and hadith on a particular question. In a larger sense, a madhhab represents the entire school of thought of a particular mujtahid Imam, such as Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi'i, or Ahmad--together with many first-rank scholars that came after each of these in their respective schools, who checked their evidences and refined and upgraded their work. The mujtahid Imams were thus explainers, who operationalized the Qur'an and sunna in the specific shari'a rulings in our lives that are collectively known as fiqh or "jurisprudence". In relation to our din or "religion", this fiqh is only part of it, for the religious knowledge each of us possesses is of three types. The first type is the general knowledge of tenets of Islamic belief in the oneness of Allah, in His angels, Books, messengers, the prophethood of Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace), and so on. All of us may derive this knowledge directly from the Qur'an and hadith, as is also the case with a second type of knowledge, that of general Islamic ethical principles to do good, avoid evil, cooperate with others in good works, and so forth. Every Muslim can take these general principles, which form the largest and most important part of his religion, from the Qur'an and hadith.

The third type of knowledge is that of the specific understanding of particular divine commands and prohibitions that make up the shari'a. Here, because of both the nature and the sheer number of the Qur'an and hadith texts involved, people differ in the scholarly capacity to understand and deduce rulings from them. But all of us have been commanded to live them in our lives, in obedience to Allah, and so Muslims are of two types, those who can do this by themselves, and they are the mujtahid Imams; and those who must do so by means of another, that is, by following a mujtahid Imam, in accordance with Allah's word in Surat al-Nahl,

" Ask those who recall, if you know not " (Qur'an 16:43),


and in Surat al-Nisa,

" If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter " (Qur'an 4:83),

in which the phrase those of them whose task it is to find it out, expresses the words "alladhina yastanbitunahu minhum", referring to those possessing the capacity to draw inferences directly from the evidence, which is called in Arabic istinbat.

These and other verses and hadiths oblige the believer who is not at the level of istinbat or directly deriving rulings from the Qur'an and hadith to ask and follow someone in such rulings who is at this level. It is not difficult to see why Allah has obliged us to ask experts, for if each of us were personally responsible for evaluating all the primary texts relating to each question, a lifetime of study would hardly be enough for it, and one would either have to give up earning a living or give up ones din, which is why Allah says in surat al-Tawba, in the context of jihad:

" Not all of the believers should go to fight. Of every section of them, why does not one part alone go forth, that the rest may gain knowledge of the religion and admonish their people when they return, that perhaps they may take warning " (Qur'an 9:122).


The slogans we hear today about "following the Qur'an and sunna instead of following the madhhabs" are wide of the mark, for everyone agrees that we must follow the Qur'an and the sunna of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace). The point is that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) is no longer alive to personally teach us, and everything we have from him, whether the hadith or the Qur'an, has been conveyed to us through Islamic scholars. So it is not a question of whether or not to take our din from scholars, but rather, from which scholars. And this is the reason we have madhhabs in Islam: because the excellence and superiority of the scholarship of the mujtahid Imams--together with the traditional scholars who followed in each of their schools and evaluated and upgraded their work after them--have met the test of scholarly investigation and won the confidence of thinking and practicing Muslims for all the centuries of Islamic greatness. The reason why madhhabs exist, the benefit of them, past, present, and future, is that they furnish thousands of sound, knowledge-based answers to Muslims questions on how to obey Allah. Muslims have realized that to follow a madhhab means to follow a super scholar who not only had a comprehensive knowledge of the Qur'an and hadith texts relating to each issue he gave judgements on, but also lived in an age a millennium closer to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and his Companions, when taqwa or "godfearingness" was the norm--both of which conditions are in striking contrast to the scholarship available today.
While the call for a return to the Qur'an and sunna is an attractive slogan, in reality it is a great leap backward, a call to abandon centuries of detailed, case-by-case Islamic scholarship in finding and spelling out the commands of the Qur'an and sunna, a highly sophisticated, interdisciplinary effort by mujtahids, hadith specialists, Qur'anic exegetes, lexicographers, and other masters of the Islamic legal sciences. To abandon the fruits of this research, the Islamic shari'a, for the following of contemporary sheikhs who, despite the claims, are not at the level of their predecessors, is a replacement of something tried and proven for something at best tentative.
The rhetoric of following the shari'a without following a particular madhhab is like a person going down to a car dealer to buy a car, but insisting it not be any known make--neither a Volkswagen nor Rolls-Royce nor Chevrolet--but rather "a car, pure and simple". Such a person does not really know what he wants; the cars on the lot do not come like that, but only in kinds. The salesman may be forgiven a slight smile, and can only point out that sophisticated products come from sophisticated means of production, from factories with a division of labor among those who test, produce, and assemble the many parts of the finished product. It is the nature of such collective human efforts to produce something far better than any of us alone could produce from scratch, even if given a forge and tools, and fifty years, or even a thousand. And so it is with the shari'a, which is more complex than any car because it deals with the universe of human actions and a wide interpretative range of sacred texts. This is why discarding the monumental scholarship of the madhhabs in operationalizing the Qur'an and sunna in order to adopt the understanding of a contemporary sheikh is not just a mistaken opinion. It is scrapping a Mercedes for a go-cart.
Reply

Musalmaan
12-08-2006, 10:35 AM
Following one Particular Imam in every Juristic Issue




Q.) "It is generally believed by the Sunni Muslims that each one of the Mudhahib of Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki and Hanbali, being one of the possible interpretation of Shari'ah, is right and none of them can be held as something against the Shari'ah. But on the same time we see that the followers of Hanafi school never depart from the Hanafi view and never adopt the Shafi'i or Maliki view in any juristic matter. Rather, they deem it impermissible to follow another jurists view in a particular issue. How can this behavior be reconciled with the belief that all the four madhahib are right? If all of them are right, there should be no harm if the Hanafi Muslims follow Shafi'i or Maliki or Hanbali views in some particular matter. (Hussain Ahmad, London)

(Answered by Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani (may Allah preserve him) )
A.) It is true that all the four madhahib are right, and following any one of them is permissible in order to follow the Shari'ah. However, a layman who lacks the ability analyse and distinguish the arguments of each madhhab cannot be allowed to pick and choose between different views only to satisfy his personal desires. The reason for this approach is twofold:

Firsty, the Holy Qur'an in a number of verses has emphatically ordered us to follow the Shari'ah, and has made it strictly prohibited to follow the personal desires vis a vis the rules of Shari'ah. The Muslim jurists, while interpreting the sources of Shari'ah never intend to satisfy their personal desires. They actually undertake an honest effort to discover the intention of Shari'ah and base their madhhab on the force of evidence, not on the search for convenience. They do not choose an interpretation from among the various ones on the basis of its suitability to their personal fancies. They choose it only because the strength of proof leads them to do so.

Now, if a layman who cannot judge between the arguments of different madhahib is allowed to choose any of the juristic views without going into the arguments they have advanced, he will be at liberty to select only those views which seem to him more fulfilling to his personal requirements, and this attitude will lead him to follow the 'desires' and not the 'guidance' --- a practice totally condemned by the Holy Qur'an.
For example, Imam Abu Hanifah is of the view that bleeding from any part of the body breaks the wudu', while Imam Shafi'i believes that the wudu is not broken by bleeding. On the other hand, Imam Shafi'i says that if a man touches a woman, his wudu' stands broken and he is bound to make a fresh wudu' before offering Salah, while Imam Abu Hanifah insists that merely touching a woman does not break the wudu.

Now, if the policy of 'pick and choose' is allowed without any restriction, a layman can choose the Hanafi view in the matter of touching a woman and the Shafi'i view in the matter of bleeding. Consequently, he will deem his wudu' unbroken even when he has combined both the situations, while in that case his wudu' stands broken according to both Hanafi and Shafi'i views.

Similarly, a traveller, according to the Shafi'i view, can combine the two prayers of Zuhr and 'Asr. But at the same time, if a travellermakes up his mind to stay in a town for four days, he is no more regarded a traveller in the Shafi'i view, hence, he cannot avail of the concession of qasr, nor of combining two prayers. On the other hand, combining two prayers in one time is not allowed in the Hanafi school, even when one is on journey. The only concession available for him is that of qasr. But the period of travel, according to Hanafi view is fourteen days, and a person shall continue to perform qasr until he resolves to stay in a town for at least fourteen days.

Consequently a traveller who has entered a city to stay there for five days cannot combine two prayers, neither according to Imam Shafi'i because because by staying for five days he cannot use the concession, nor according to Imam Abu Hanifah, because combining two prayers is not at all allowed according to him.

But the policy of 'pick and choose' often leads some people to adopt the Shafi'i view in the matter of combining two prayers and the Hanafi view in the matter of the period of journey.

It is evident in these examples that the selection of different views in different cases is not based on the force of arguments underlying them but on the facility provided by each. Obviously this practice is tantamount to 'following the desires' which is totally prohibited by the Holy Qur'an.

If such an attitude is allowed, it will render the Shari'ah a plaything in the hands of the ignorant, and no rule of the Shari'ah will remain immune from distortion. That is why the policy of 'pick and choose' has been condemned by all the renowned scholars of Shari'ah. Imam Ibn Tamiyyah, the famous muhaddib and jurist, says in his 'Fatawa':

"Some people follow at one time an imam who holds the marriage invalid, and at another time they follow a jurist who holds it valid. They do so only to serve their individual purpose and satisfy their desires. Such a practice is impermissible according to the consensus of all the imams."

He further elaborates the point by several examples when he says:

"For example if a person wants to pre-empt a sale he adopts the view of those who give the right of pre-emption to a contingent neighbour, but if they are the seller of a property, they refuse to accept the right of pre-emption for the neighbour of the seller (on the basis of Shafi'i view) . . . and if the relevant person claims that he did not know before (that Imam Shafi'i does not give the right of pre-emption to the neighbour) and has come to know it only then, and he wants to follow that view as from today, he will not be allowed to do so, because such a practice opens the door for playing with the rules of Shari'ah, and paves the path for deciding the halal and haram in accordance with one's desires." (Fatawa Ibn Taymiyyah Syrian ed. 2:285,286)

That was the basic cause for the policy adopted by the later jurists who made it necessary for the common people to adopt a particular madhhab in its totality. If one prefers the madhhab of Imam Abu Hanifah, he should adopt it in all matters and with all its details, and if he prefers another madhhab, he should adopt it in full in the same way and he should not 'pick and choose' between different views for his individual benefit.

The consequence of the correctness of all the madhahib, is that one can elect to follow any one of them, but once he adopts a particular madhhab, he should not follow another madhhab in a particular matter in order to satisfy his personal choice based on his desire, not on the force of argument.

Thus the policy of allegiance to a particular madhhab was a preventive measure adopted by the jurists to prevent anarchy in the matter of Shari'ah. But obviously, this policy is meant for the people who cannot carry out ijtihad themselves, or cannot evaluate the arguments advanced by every madhhab in support of their respective views. Such people have no option but to follow a particular madhhab as a credible interpretation of Shari'ah.

But the people equipped with necessary qualifications of ijtihad need not follow a particular madhhab. They can derive the rules of Shari'ah directly from their original sources. Similarly, the persons who are not fully qualified for the exercise of ijtihad, yet they are so well-versed in the Islamic disciplines that they can evaluate the different juristic views on pure academic grounds without being motivated by their personal desires are never forbidden from preferring one madhhab over the other in a particular matter. There is a large number of Hanafi jurists who, despite their allegiance to Imam Abu Hanifah, have adopted the view of some other jurist in several juristic issues. Still, they are called 'Hanafi'.

This partial departure from the view of Imam Abu Hanifah was based on either of the following grounds: sometimes they, after an honest and comprehensive study of the relevant material came to the conclusion that the view of some other Imam is more forceful. Sometimes, they found that the view of Imam Abu Hanifah is based on pure analogy, but an authentic Hadith expressly contradicts that view and it is most likely that the hadith was not conveyed to Imam Abu Hanifah, otherwise he would not have adopted a view against it.

In some other cases, the jurists felt that it is the requirement of the collective expedience of the Ummah to act upon the view of some other imam, which is an equally possible interpretation of Shari'ah, and they adopted it not in pursuance of their personal desires, but to meet the collective needs of the Ummah and in view of the changed circumstances prevailing in their time.

These examples are more than enough to show that the followers of a particular madhhab have never taken it as a substitute of Shari'ah or as its sole version to the exclusion of every other madhhab: In fact, they have never given a juristic madhhab a higher place than it actually deserved within the framework of Shari'ah.

Before parting with this question, I would like to clarify another point which is extremely important in this context: some people having no systematic knowledge of Islamic disciplines often become deluded by their superficial information based on self-study, and that too, in most cases, through translations of the Holy Qur'an and ahadith. By virtue of this kind of cursory study, they presume themselves to be the masters of the Islamic learning, and start criticizing the former Muslim jurists. This attitude is totally wrong and devoid of any justification. The inference of juristic rules from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah is a very meticulous exercise which cannot be carried out on the basis of a superficial study. While studying a particular juristic subject one has to collect all the relevant material from the Holy Qur'an and from the ahadith found in different chapters and different books, and has to undertake a combined study of this scattered material. He has to examine the veracity of the relevant ahadith in the light of the well settled principles of the science of hadith. He has to discover the historical background of the relevant verses and traditions. In short, he has to resolve a number of complicated issues involved. All this exercise requires very intensive and extensive knowledge which is seldom found in the contemporary 'Ulama, whoare specialists themselves in the subject, let alone the common people who have no direct access to the original sources of Shari'ah.

The upshot of the above discussion is that all the four madhahib being based on solid grounds, it is permissible for a competent Hanafi 'alim to adopt another juristic view, if he has the required knowledge and ability to go into the merits of each madhhab on the basis of adequate academic research without pursuing his personal desires. But the people who do not fulfill these conditions should not dare to do so, because it can lead to a dangerous state of anarchy in the matter of Shari'ah.
Reply

Mohsin
12-08-2006, 12:27 PM
Masha'allah an excellent answer from mufti taqi usmani. For those of you who dont know who he is, he is the main mufti of pakistan
Reply

snakelegs
12-10-2006, 09:00 AM
mohsin and musalmaan,
just wanted to thank both of you for all the information about mazhabs. i had heard of them, but really didn't know anything about them and how they work.
as i am learning more about islam and just how much is involved i can see why the average person could never possibly get even a fraction of the knowledge required to make informed decisions...which is why i started this thread. so i'm glad i did. i feel that i have a better understanding now.
mohsin - this makes a lot of sense:
"Also, I think we shouldnt forget, jurisprudence, or fiqhi issues are at the end of the day, in my eyes anyway, minor issues. I eman the differences scholars come to on issues are sually just slightly different from each other. Too big a fuss is made from these different fiqhi issues and huge divides are created, which when you think about it is very silly since they still believe in the same religion as you!"
Reply

matobosha
12-10-2006, 09:14 AM
Assalam Aleikum

I like your argument Snake leg some of the issues need to be really looked at objectively because at the time of the prophet there was no DNA just like now when you travel by air for three hsour that is a very long distance from one country to another.
During the prophet time such a distance exempts you from fasting however today some ulamas agrees that you can fast becuse of the comfort you get unlike the travelling of the yester years.

Your comments please
Reply

snakelegs
12-11-2006, 02:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by matobosha
Assalam Aleikum

I like your argument Snake leg some of the issues need to be really looked at objectively because at the time of the prophet there was no DNA just like now when you travel by air for three hsour that is a very long distance from one country to another.
During the prophet time such a distance exempts you from fasting however today some ulamas agrees that you can fast becuse of the comfort you get unlike the travelling of the yester years.

Your comments please
hi,
not sure if you mean that you want my comments/opinions?
keep in mind that i am not muslim and also, that i know very little.
from this thread i would conclude that there is so much knowledge needed, and so many totally new problems that arise due to modern technology like DNA, stem cell research, computers, etc. etc. that it is impossible for most people to attain any but a small part of that knowledge. so you must seek answers from people who are knowledgeable, but at the same time, you must not just accept their postion blindly, you must weigh it against what you know about other, related things and use your own common sense. so you must take a middle path - where you look to scholars for guidance but also take responsibility yourself. if you are fortunate enough to find an individual scholar that you can trust, and who proves over a period of time to rule in accordance with the knowledge that you do have, then this greatly simplifies your job. it is best to choose a mazhab and stick with it to avoid choosing things on the basis of personal convenience - esp. because the differences are not usually on important issues. (i think?) so it is mainly a matter of consistency. so it is more to prevent you from just seeking what is easier for you (or more rewarding selfishly) rather than on the basis of fullfilling your obligations. (which would be tempting otherwise so it's a good way to be sure of your motivation). so it's a little like an insurance policy. if i understood it right, this is the real purpose of the mazhabs. it sort of guarantees a position of objectivity.
so, what i would get from this is that the individual muslim must take a middle path - he must turn to the scholars, but still be responsible to be an active participant and not a passive follower, and always question his motivations.
now, what value this anlaysis has from a non-muslim is beyond me....but those are my opinions from what i've learned from this thread.
i would very much appreciate comments from anyone to see if i've understood correctly.
in a way, it is not really so different from secular life and just plain common sense. modern life has become so complicated that we are forced to rely on experts for lots and lots of things in our daily lives. but since this is religion, motivation becomes a major issue.
i am just thinking as i write so i'm sorry this got a bit long and rambling.
again, i'd really like feedback on this stuff.
Reply

Musalmaan
12-12-2006, 06:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
mohsin and musalmaan,

"Also, I think we shouldnt forget, jurisprudence, or fiqhi issues are at the end of the day, in my eyes anyway, minor issues. I eman the differences scholars come to on issues are sually just slightly different from each other. Too big a fuss is made from these different fiqhi issues and huge divides are created, which when you think about it is very silly since they still believe in the same religion as you!"

yeah, true and we have to follow the way as commanded by Allah SWT and His messenger Sallallahualayhiwassalam to overcome those issues. some of the air firing statement like blind following make division within prophet's ummah. those ppl who try to show crookedness in the believer's way, they are not doing good for themselves. may Allah open up their eyes b4 its too late.
Reply

Skillganon
12-12-2006, 06:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
mohsin and musalmaan,
just wanted to thank both of you for all the information about mazhabs. i had heard of them, but really didn't know anything about them and how they work.
as i am learning more about islam and just how much is involved i can see why the average person could never possibly get even a fraction of the knowledge required to make informed decisions...which is why i started this thread. so i'm glad i did. i feel that i have a better understanding now.
mohsin - this makes a lot of sense:
"Also, I think we shouldnt forget, jurisprudence, or fiqhi issues are at the end of the day, in my eyes anyway, minor issues. I eman the differences scholars come to on issues are sually just slightly different from each other. Too big a fuss is made from these different fiqhi issues and huge divides are created, which when you think about it is very silly since they still believe in the same religion as you!"

Your correct this little difference are nothing to make a big fuss over.
I alway's wondered why people do.

However, I do think they should do something about those small contradictory difference in opinion and base it on stonger evidence.
Reply

Musalmaan
12-12-2006, 06:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
hi,
not sure if you mean that you want my comments/opinions?
keep in mind that i am not muslim and also, that i know very little.
from this thread i would conclude that there is so much knowledge needed, and so many totally new problems that arise due to modern technology like DNA, stem cell research, computers, etc. etc. that it is impossible for most people to attain any but a small part of that knowledge. so you must seek answers from people who are knowledgeable, but at the same time, you must not just accept their postion blindly, you must weigh it against what you know about other, related things and use your own common sense. so you must take a middle path - where you look to scholars for guidance but also take responsibility yourself. if you are fortunate enough to find an individual scholar that you can trust, and who proves over a period of time to rule in accordance with the knowledge that you do have, then this greatly simplifies your job. it is best to choose a mazhab and stick with it to avoid choosing things on the basis of personal convenience - esp. because the differences are not usually on important issues. (i think?) so it is mainly a matter of consistency. so it is more to prevent you from just seeking what is easier for you (or more rewarding selfishly) rather than on the basis of fullfilling your obligations. (which would be tempting otherwise so it's a good way to be sure of your motivation). so it's a little like an insurance policy. if i understood it right, this is the real purpose of the mazhabs. it sort of guarantees a position of objectivity.
so, what i would get from this is that the individual muslim must take a middle path - he must turn to the scholars, but still be responsible to be an active participant and not a passive follower, and always question his motivations.
now, what value this anlaysis has from a non-muslim is beyond me....but those are my opinions from what i've learned from this thread.
i would very much appreciate comments from anyone to see if i've understood correctly.
in a way, it is not really so different from secular life and just plain common sense. modern life has become so complicated that we are forced to rely on experts for lots and lots of things in our daily lives. but since this is religion, motivation becomes a major issue.
i am just thinking as i write so i'm sorry this got a bit long and rambling.
again, i'd really like feedback on this stuff.
its good that you are studying Islam and seeking for its knowledge. may Allah guide you to the right path. i m not a good help, i know, but some point. that i want to share here that might help you in your understanding of this beautiful deen, that there are two things involved in our daily matter,
1. Taqwah
2. Fatwa
taqwah is to have God-consciousness in our life, and to leave all those thing that displeases Allah. even move away from those things that are doubtful, things which you are not sure if its right or wrong. Allah SWT demands to bring taqwah in our lives. that is what Allah likes in His slaves.

fatwa is something like a boundary of that land that if you are going over those doubtful things then ask knowledgeable scholar who is trustworthy, whom you consider he understand things well, who strictly follows sunnah, you ask him your question, that knowledgable scholar also answer if he knows it well, he will never answer if he himself is unclear abt it for he himself fear Allah SWT and has taqwah in his life. He might refer to his own teacher or give other name of scholars to refer if he dont know. so this is not something confusing in practical life rather if we follow the way as command by Allah and His messenger then all is helpful and easy.
now if we are following this way even though we come to incorrect result for e.g the answer was yes and we do it for No, still we will be rewarded by Allah SWT according to saheeh hadith because we follow the way as mentioned by Allah SWT and His messenger sallalahu layhi wa sallam.
As long as the way of righteous is followed, Allah will help and guide us along to the right path, (<-- and that is something which is very imp.) but if the way of righteous will be abandoned then ofcourse we've chosen some other way, and Allah SWT help and guidance will not be with such ppl.

thatswhy in Surah Fatihah the opening chapter of Quran ,
in Ayah # 6 when Allah taught His slave to ask

001.006 Show us the straight path,

then then next ayah does not say "Sirat-ul-Quran" or "Sirat-ul-Hadith" or any other way but

001.007 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured;


I wish that you keep on studying Islam, insha'Allah its the lovely path and purposeful life.

some of the very recommended sites,

http://www.geocities.com/mutmainaa/
http://www.askimam.org

what is right is from Allah SWT and what is wrong is from my own nafs, may Allah forgive me.
:w:

plz excuse my english thats why i love to share other web-sites article.
Reply

Musalmaan
12-13-2006, 05:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
Your correct this little difference are nothing to make a big fuss over.
I alway's wondered why people do.

However, I do think they should do something about those small contradictory difference in opinion and base it on stonger evidence.
:sl:
brthr u're right that stronger evidence is to be followed and thats what every believer is following, problem arises when some jaahil (ignorant) of this ummah try to act as a prophet and show that this is only saheeh way to do this.
anyway i suggest you to learn about what really taqleed is where the taqleed is applied? does it apply on matter where the command of Allah and His rasool is clear and obvious or where there is some ijtahadi matter (differences regarding that matter)?
and most important who is really mujhtahid? what are the qualification that it requires? what non-mujtahid is suppose to do in order to save himself from following his desire or being misguided?

these are some very imp. questions to be learned in order to save oneself from deviated and very ignorant ppl. in this ummah.

Insha'Allah, i will share some important articles regarding to it. those whom Allah SWT has blessed with treasures of knowledge did not abandon taqleed of Imam of fiqh, with all the knowledge they use to seek for their opinion in those matter, and it was there practical observation that those who had abandoned taqleed was the people who use to reject hadith when it contradict to their personal invented biddah beleive or more often they became apostates.

so it is something very important to learn it in order to know the truth and safeguard from the evil of nafs and shaytaan.


:w:
Reply

snakelegs
12-13-2006, 07:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Musalmaan
its good that you are studying Islam and seeking for its knowledge. may Allah guide you to the right path. i m not a good help, i know, but some point. that i want to share here that might help you in your understanding of this beautiful deen, that there are two things involved in our daily matter,
1. Taqwah
2. Fatwa
taqwah is to have God-consciousness in our life, and to leave all those thing that displeases Allah. even move away from those things that are doubtful, things which you are not sure if its right or wrong. Allah SWT demands to bring taqwah in our lives. that is what Allah likes in His slaves.

fatwa is something like a boundary of that land that if you are going over those doubtful things then ask knowledgeable scholar who is trustworthy, whom you consider he understand things well, who strictly follows sunnah, you ask him your question, that knowledgable scholar also answer if he knows it well, he will never answer if he himself is unclear abt it for he himself fear Allah SWT and has taqwah in his life. He might refer to his own teacher or give other name of scholars to refer if he dont know. so this is not something confusing in practical life rather if we follow the way as command by Allah and His messenger then all is helpful and easy.
now if we are following this way even though we come to incorrect result for e.g the answer was yes and we do it for No, still we will be rewarded by Allah SWT according to saheeh hadith because we follow the way as mentioned by Allah SWT and His messenger sallalahu layhi wa sallam.
As long as the way of righteous is followed, Allah will help and guide us along to the right path, (<-- and that is something which is very imp.) but if the way of righteous will be abandoned then ofcourse we've chosen some other way, and Allah SWT help and guidance will not be with such ppl.

thatswhy in Surah Fatihah the opening chapter of Quran ,
in Ayah # 6 when Allah taught His slave to ask

001.006 Show us the straight path,

then then next ayah does not say "Sirat-ul-Quran" or "Sirat-ul-Hadith" or any other way but

001.007 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured;


I wish that you keep on studying Islam, insha'Allah its the lovely path and purposeful life.

some of the very recommended sites,

http://www.geocities.com/mutmainaa/
http://www.askimam.org

what is right is from Allah SWT and what is wrong is from my own nafs, may Allah forgive me.
:w:

plz excuse my english thats why i love to share other web-sites article.
hi musalmaan,
thanks!
you don't need to apologize for your english - it is about 1 zillion times better than my urdu! seriously, it is not bad at all.
i recently discovered this site: ----
they have on-line courses in english and urdu and articles too. i think i'll learn a lot there.
do you have a link for more english articles by mufti taqi usmani?
bahot shukriah!

MOD: THE REFERRED LINK IS FOR A MOVEMENT THAT REJECTS MANY AUTHENTIC AHADEETH, EVEN IN BUKHARI AND MUSLIM. THEY DENY THE MAHDI, THE COMING OF ISA, THE PUNISHMENT OF THE GRAVE, THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.
ps. THEY'RE AGAINST MADH'HABS TOO.
Reply

snakelegs
12-13-2006, 11:46 AM
MOD: THE REFERRED LINK IS FOR A MOVEMENT THAT REJECTS MANY AUTHENTIC AHADEETH, EVEN IN BUKHARI AND MUSLIM. THEY DENY THE MAHDI, THE COMING OF ISA, THE PUNISHMENT OF THE GRAVE, THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.
ps. THEY'RE AGAINST MADH'HABS TOO.[/QUOTE]

i apologize for this - i had no idea about the site that i linked being as described above as i just discovered it 2 days ago myself and can't even remember where i got the link.
are they connected to a specific sect of some kind?
Reply

Musalmaan
12-14-2006, 05:38 AM
well snakelegs asking the question to that MOD, u r actually revealing him. anyway what MOD has marked should be considered because if that site hold such believe then it is cleary against Ahl-e-Sunnah wal Jamaah(the followers of Sunnah).

:w:
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-06-2010, 08:55 PM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-17-2007, 03:09 AM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-06-2007, 02:36 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-26-2007, 04:27 PM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-12-2007, 05:48 PM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!