Did you know..

[Samkurd]

That in the old testament it says that pork was a forbidden food to eat by christians? along with shell fish and camel. It seems the well watered down religion of christianity has now made its people make their own rules...

Its very sad but as a white american convert once said 'Islam is everything i wanted christianity to be'

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i thought the old testament was torah? :hiding:

ONLY PEOPLE THAT DONT LAUGH AT ANYTHING MAY READ THE ABOVE SENTENCE !

:salamext:

[MusLiM 4 LiFe]

LOL it is innit ^o)

datz wot confuses me abt judaism n christianity :S

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ ye but was thinking if it is does that mean that christians accept the torah??

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[MusLiM 4 LiFe]

dont dey follow da new 1? :S

[IbnAbdulHakim]

whats with all the bibles :heated: :heated: :heated:

[MusLiM 4 LiFe]

its da same 1 but its torah and da bible christianity in 1.. im so confused.. plzzz ppl correct me if im rong :$ but i woz told that christians follow da new testament.. and da old 1 is da torah wich da jews follow :S

[GARY]

whats with all the bibles :heated: :heated: :heated:

Christians say there is only one Bible. The translations are different but the meanings are the same. They say that the idea that some people claim that the meanings have been changed is hogwash. Interestingly, one could counter with, "what's with all the hadith?" Why the different interpretations that some don't accept while others do?

As far as the pork question goes, I found this on a christian site;

Old Testament ceremonial laws regarding "clean" and "unclean" foods are not binding on Christians, having been fulfilled in the coming of Jesus Christ. As St. Paul teaches in Colossians 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ."

[MuSe]

As far as the Old Testament is concerned, both jews and christians follow this. With the birth of Prophet Isa (Alaih Assalaam) both went their own way. For christians new testament came as they considered Isa (Alaih Assalaam) as the final prophet. Jews have their own story as they are still waiting for their Messiah. But Old Testament is something both religions follow (or should follow according to their learnings).

[GARY]

its da same 1 but its torah and da bible christianity in 1.. im so confused.. plzzz ppl correct me if im rong :$ but i woz told that christians follow da new testament.. and da old 1 is da torah wich da jews follow :S

A Bible contains both old and new testaments. I have been told that the old testament is provided for background and understanding as to why things are as they are in the new testament. To tie it all together, so to speak.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Peace,

Gary hadith is unprotected, we only follow it by its authenticity but even 32 scholars of the highest eminence including 50 common denominations have stated that the king james version of the bible has grave defects, therefore its been changed. However more hadith is still Alhamdulillaah preserved in its original arabic form.

Anyway Gary we go by the Quran and any hadith which goes against the Quran is clearly fabricated :D

[YusufNoor]

That in the old testament it says that pork was a forbidden food to eat by christians? along with shell fish and camel. It seems the well watered down religion of christianity has now made its people make their own rules...

Its very sad but as a white american convert once said 'Islam is everything i wanted christianity to be'

:sl:

the Old Testament is really 3 books. the Torah (law); the Prophets (history) and the Writings (Pslams, Proverbs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiates, Job, Song of songs, Daniel, Esther, Chronicles and Ezra/Nehemiah)

the Christians changed that line up around, some add some Apocrapha. "their" book is the New Testament.

nowhere in the N.T. does it say that the dietary Kosher laws are changed. hence, if one really wants to consider himself "Christian", he should abstain from foods prohibited in the O.T.

As St. Paul teaches in Colossians 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ."

notice that doesn't say it's OK to eat the stuff, it just says that you're not to worry about what others say about it. the 1st Christians kept those dietary laws as well as "festival(s) or a new moon or a Sabbath".

it IS with Paul that things arrive at a fork in the road. Paul was a Jew, probably a Pharisee. "according to the NT", he was picked to bring "Christianity" to the Gentiles (non-Jews).

one of the major issues that Paul faced was that of circumcision. on his own, he decided that people could "convert" to the erm, "Jesus movement" without having to get circumcised FIRST. mainly as a result of this, along with a dream, 90% of "Chrisitans" assume that ALL of the OT laws and regulations are simply moot, no longer necessary. DESPITE words of Jesus to the contrary.

i was wondering why you thought that quote was sad?

:w:

[Ninth_Scribe]

As far as the Old Testament is concerned, both jews and christians follow this. With the birth of Prophet Isa (Alaih Assalaam) both went their own way. For christians new testament came as they considered Isa (Alaih Assalaam) as the final prophet. Jews have their own story as they are still waiting for their Messiah. But Old Testament is something both religions follow (or should follow according to their learnings).

They do agree with one thing. Neither Christians or Jews are obligated to obey the laws of either testament.

The Christians were absolved for their sins by Isa.

The Jews, according to our guests, don't have to re-institute the laws of Torah until the Moshiah comes.

I suppose it makes life very convenient for them both.

Ninth Scribe

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i heard the jews think theres one day that forgives there sins for the coming year , i think thats the sabbath?

Muslims have ways of forgiving past sins (though its not certain so we're always on edge because theres sooo many conditions, ikhlaas etc)

gaurantee of forgiveness might takeaway sincerity and striving in the cause of God !

[MuSe]

A Bible contains both old and new testaments. I have been told that the old testament is provided for background and understanding as to why things are as they are in the new testament. To tie it all together, so to speak.

That is quite true. The fact is that the Old Testament contains in general the rules that are given to mankind to live according to God. The New Testament is from Isa (Alaih Assalaam) on, a bit the example of the applying of the rules in life.

I was raised "christian" (if you can speak of that, because christianity in our region isn't really a religion anymore, people just do what they like) and got catholic religion at school. This was what they teached us.

[Umar001]

Assalamu Aleykum,

original poster, CHristians can eat pork because of the writingi n the book of Mark chapter 7 in which whom so ever the author maybe states that Jesus decleared all foods clean, 'nothing that goes into the body makes you unclean, only what comes out'

Christians say there is only one Bible. The translations are different but the meanings are the same. They say that the idea that some people claim that the meanings have been changed is hogwash. Interestingly, one could counter with, "what's with all the hadith?" Why the different interpretations that some don't accept while others do?

There are different version, not translations, for example, passages taken in and out, reference to different manuscripts saying different things, some may not change the meaning I do agree but none the less different versions.

Also, in Islaam the Classification of Hadeeth is a long process in which different matters are looked at, and then the hadeeth are asessed, some are not accepted because after much scrutany they have not passed rigarous testing. The Bible would not pass a classification test. The Bible and Hadeeth would go through the same Testing, they are not comparison in authenticity when shows side by side with authentic hadeeth.

Peace.

[Ninth_Scribe]

i heard the jews think theres one day that forgives there sins for the coming year , i think thats the sabbath?

Muslims have ways of forgiving past sins (though its not certain so we're always on edge because theres sooo many conditions, ikhlaas etc)

gaurantee of forgiveness might take away sincerity and striving in the cause of God!

Yes, but they can't do sin offerings to atone for everyone anymore. They lost that right because of what you said here: "Gaurantee of forgiveness might take away sincerity and striving in the cause of God!" and they've been upset about this ever since, hence the addiction to Jerusalem.

I mean, it's not without it's benefits (absolving of sins), but this was meant for the young as a means to nourish their souls in order to maintain the 'good fight' and for spiritual healing - but the lines were blurred to include those who were at age age to know better. People at this age have more experience and their deeds are expected to be based on that experience. When they aren't, their deeds become an advantageous blasphemy as opposed to an 'intentional sin' - the definition of which has become confused in records like Temurah 15b.

Note: Temurah 15b attempts to argue that 'intentional sins' could not be atoned for without the Hora'as Sha'ah (a special ritual reserved for extreme emergencies). But I find some serious flaws with that interpretation since one would need this special petition for every person who touched the dead (intentionally) which is unavoidable in normal, daily life. A spattering of R.H. ash and Hissop water certainly wouldn't have been enough, though that's the prescription that was recorded for this type of 'intentional' sin. Add to that the fact that it can easily be proven that the generation who lived during the first Temple weren't dead at the time the second Temple was built, and the whole issue that created this silly document, gets knocked clean off the table.

My great grand-mother used to say: you do what you know... until you know better. The problem, as I see it, is that certain people who do know better are taking advantage of those who don't.

At any rate.. blah!

Ninth Scribe

[Keltoi]

They do agree with one thing. Neither Christians or Jews are obligated to obey the laws of either testament.

The Christians were absolved for their sins by Isa.

The Jews, according to our guests, don't have to re-institute the laws of Torah until the Moshiah comes.

I suppose it makes life very convenient for them both.

Ninth Scribe

Talk about a sweeping mistaken generalization. Christians do not believe that all sin has been forgiven therefor they can do anything they want. That is a common misconception, but you would think after the numerous times this issue has been explained on here it wouldn't be a misconception any longer.

[arabiyyah]

That in the old testament it says that pork was a forbidden food to eat by christians? along with shell fish and camel. It seems the well watered down religion of christianity has now made its people make their own rules...

i think they christians think jesus forgive all rules and sins, the OT is jewish rules.

i heard the jews think theres one day that forgives there sins for the coming year , i think thats the sabbath?

ask in the jewish q/a thread. they answered my stuff. :)

[Ninth_Scribe]

Talk about a sweeping mistaken generalization. Christians do not believe that all sin has been forgiven therefor they can do anything they want. That is a common misconception, but you would think after the numerous times this issue has been explained on here it wouldn't be a misconception any longer.

Really? No 'forgiveness' for serious sins? Tell that to the Pope! He spared Cardinal Bernard Law from being tossed in jail for allowing pediphile priests to stay in the club, as it were... for decades! What did the pope do? He promoted B. Law, and moved him to Rome, effectively removing him from our legal juristiction! In other words, they not only forgave him for the hundreds of families he helped destroy, but they saved his butt and rewarded him as well.

You obviously have no clue what the deal is with these good ole boyz!

Ninth Scribe

[Keltoi]

Really? No 'forgiveness' for serious sins? Tell that to the Pope! He spared Cardinal Bernard Law from being tossed in jail for allowing pediphile priests to stay in the club, as it were... for decades! What did the pope do? He promoted B. Law, and moved him to Rome, effectively removing him from our legal juristiction! In other words, they not only forgave him for the hundreds of families he helped destroy, but they saved his butt and rewarded him as well.

You obviously have no clue what the deal is with these good ole boyz!

Ninth Scribe

This isn't about whatever happens with the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, this is about Christianity as a religion. Sin can be forgiven, but salvation can only be obtained by those who honestly repent their sins and change their lives accordingly. That is what I meant by a mistaken generalization. Christianity does not give one a free hand to commit sin without judgement or spiritual consequences.

[glo]

This thread is turning rapidly into a discussion on original sin and Jesus' atonement for it.
I won't go there, because we have other threads on this topic.

Instead let's return to the original topic:

That in the old testament it says that pork was a forbidden food to eat by christians? along with shell fish and camel. It seems the well watered down religion of christianity has now made its people make their own rules...
'

Neither Christians or Jews are obligated to obey the laws of either testament.

[...]

I suppose it makes life very convenient for them both.

Posts like this make me realise just how great some Muslims' misunderstanding of the Christian faith is!

I come across this view quite often: Christianity is a watered down version of God's true religion ...
As if Christians were people who desire to follow God and please him - but cannot bring themselves to give up eating bacon!! :rollseyes

With regards to the laws, Jesus said this:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them (Matthew 5: 17)

He came to fulfill the laws - fulfill as in complete a contract, or pay a price ... so the relationship between God and humans would be restored.
We don't have to earn God's favour anymore by adhering to the food and cleanliness laws, which God gave to the Israelites to enable them to worship him and come into his presence ...
Instead, anybody who hears the Word and believes it can now have a direct relationship with God! How wonderful!!:)

Christians are people who recognise and believe that through Jesus God indeed restored his relationship with us humans, and that his New Covenant deems the food restrictions obsolete.
As Al Habeshi pointed out, this is evident in scripture.
Christians aren't just people who can't make the effort to give up things for God - they believe that God does not require those sacrifices anymore!

But that does not mean the Christian life should be an easy ride ... have you ever read about Jesus' teachings?

• He instructed us to turn the other cheek
• He told us to love our enemies
• He taught us to forgive our brothers again and again and again
• He taught how hard it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven
• He told us to not commit adultery, not even in our mind
• He instructed us to not judge others, and to search our own hearts first

The list goes on and on, these are just a few examples.

Do these sound like easy teachings to you?
Sometimes I thing giving up bacon would be an easy alternative ... :rollseyes

Of course, this is only my perspective as a Christian. :)

Peace

[Keltoi]

Glo does have a way with words. Excellent reply.

[Umar001]

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulahi Wa Berekatu,

Guys look this thread is about prohibitions with regards to food, thats what it's about, please try keep to that.

The answer is simple, according to one of the Gospel authors Jesus said all food were allowed.

If anyone wishes to discuss the concept of Jesus fufilling the old testament, or sin in Christianity then please either continue with threads on such topics or if there are none then make your own and state the topic clearly.

This is the verse that Bible believers will quote as evidence:

14Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "[f]

17After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

From Mark 7

Eesa. :)

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

and yet, long after the above mentioned Prophet departed, can we find any evidence in the Christian bible regarding this???


oh look, see what it says here:

Acts 10 9-18

Peter's Vision

9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate. 18They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.


so 3 times Peter said "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."


and then 17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, i wondering why Peter was wondering? PERHAPS the vision was relating to accepting Gentiles into the Jesus movement! :giggling:

so your saying that the vision was for Peter to go have a ham sandwhich????:heated:


or maybe, according to Eesa, Peter never read the Gospel. hmmph, how strange!

now what was Mark 7 about...

Mark 7

1The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus and 2saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were "unclean," that is, unwashed. 3(The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.[a])

5So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with 'unclean' hands?"

6He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[b] 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

9And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,'[d] and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'[e] 11But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like
that."

was it a comment about clean/unclean food? nope, it was a bout dirty hands!

one has to remember when reading the words of Jesus, ESPECIALLY when he was dealing with the Pharisees, particularly, unlike Nicodemus, those of the Shimei school. Jesus's answers were usually ridiculing the way that the held to "ceremony" over paracting love for fellow man.

but Christians usually get this stuff wrong anyway...

for any Muslims interested, the quote from Mark is while Jesus was alive, which according to Eesa as well as MANY confused churches, abbrogated the all food laws.

YET the book of Acts from which the other quote is taken is dated AFTER the gospels. according to tradition, Peter is the LEADER of Jesus' Apostles. There you have him responding to the "voice in the sky" saying THREE TIMES, well what is he saying? let's read it again, "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean"!

THAT MEANS, according to Eesa, that the VERY HEAD of the new church, Peter, or as some mistakingly call him: "the rock", either doesn't know the gospel, has chosen to ignore the teachings of Jesus!!

how could that be???

think about it!





:w:

[IzakHalevas]

The Jews, according to our guests, don't have to re-institute the laws of Torah until the Moshiah comes.

That is untrue. The laws according to the sacrificing, temple mount, and land cannot be put back until the Moshiach comes.

All the laws of the Torah that do not have to do with the Holy Temple, Holy Land that involves (things we cannot control because we dont have the info, that moshiach will bring) and sacrificing are until Moshiach.

Just about the majority of all laws are still completly nessesary and non-negotiable.

To rebuilt the Holy Temple, begin sacrifices again without Moshiach is an abomination.

99% of the laws are mandatory, 1% however, must not be done before Moshiach.

Anyother misunderstandings?

[Umar001]

:sl:

Wa aleykum salam wa rhametulah Brother Yusuf :)

and yet, long after the above mentioned Prophet departed, can we find any evidence in the Christian bible regarding this???


oh look, see what it says here:

Acts 10 9-18

Peter's Vision

9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate. 18They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.


so 3 times Peter said "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."


and then 17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, i wondering why Peter was wondering? PERHAPS the vision was relating to accepting Gentiles into the Jesus movement! :giggling:

so your saying that the vision was for Peter to go have a ham sandwhich????:heated:


or maybe, according to Eesa, Peter never read the Gospel. hmmph, how strange!

now what was Mark 7 about...

Mark 7

1The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus and 2saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were "unclean," that is, unwashed. 3(The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.[a])

5So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with 'unclean' hands?"

6He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[b] 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

9And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,'[d] and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'[e] 11But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like
that."

was it a comment about clean/unclean food? nope, it was a bout dirty hands!

one has to remember when reading the words of Jesus, ESPECIALLY when he was dealing with the Pharisees, particularly, unlike Nicodemus, those of the Shimei school. Jesus's answers were usually ridiculing the way that the held to "ceremony" over paracting love for fellow man.

but Christians usually get this stuff wrong anyway...

for any Muslims interested, the quote from Mark is while Jesus was alive, which according to Eesa as well as MANY confused churches, abbrogated the all food laws.

YET the book of Acts from which the other quote is taken is dated AFTER the gospels. according to tradition, Peter is the LEADER of Jesus' Apostles. There you have him responding to the "voice in the sky" saying THREE TIMES, well what is he saying? let's read it again, "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean"!

THAT MEANS, according to Eesa, that the VERY HEAD of the new church, Peter, or as some mistakingly call him: "the rock", either doesn't know the gospel, has chosen to ignore the teachings of Jesus!!

how could that be???

think about it!


:w:

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulahi Wa Berekatu,

Guys look this thread is about prohibitions with regards to food, thats what it's about, please try keep to that.

The answer is simple, according to one of the Gospel authors Jesus said all food were allowed.

If anyone wishes to discuss the concept of Jesus fufilling the old testament, or sin in Christianity then please either continue with threads on such topics or if there are none then make your own and state the topic clearly.

This is the verse that Bible believers will quote as evidence:

14Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "[f]

17After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

From Mark 7

Eesa. :)

So brother Yusuf are you telling me that according to the Gospel right there the author is not claiming that all foods were made clean?

[YusufNoor]

Wa aleykum salam wa rhametulah Brother Yusuf :)






So brother Yusuf are you telling me that according to the Gospel right there the author is not claiming that all foods were made clean?

:sl:

Greetings of Peace Brother Al,

that IS what i'm saying. do you know WHY? because this phrase right here IS NOT IN THE ORIGINAL BIBLE (i mean the copies that we now have):
(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

how can you say that you might ask, notice it is in parenthesis. it's in parenthesis because the translators KNEW it wasn't in there! BUT becuase they were raised to think that those laws were abrogated, they ADDED it as a clarification!

it was NEVER there!

i'm not saying that the translators were evil people,though i would say that of some. i'm trying to explain to folks that well meaning, G-d fearing people have been led astray. as a result of that, when they are trying to "interpret" Scripture, at some point they will put what they think it means and NOT what it says.

if you know of an online sight that does side by side Greek & English, post the link. we'll check it together. it's simply jusy not there.

Peace,

Yusuf

:w:

[Umar001]

:sl:

Greetings of Peace Brother Al,

that IS what i'm saying. do you know WHY? because this phrase right here IS NOT IN THE ORIGINAL BIBLE (i mean the copies that we now have):
(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

how can you say that you might ask, notice it is in parenthesis. it's in parenthesis because the translators KNEW it wasn't in there! BUT becuase they were raised to think that those laws were abrogated, they ADDED it as a clarification!

it was NEVER there!

i'm not saying that the translators were evil people,though i would say that of some. i'm trying to explain to folks that well meaning, G-d fearing people have been led astray. as a result of that, when they are trying to "interpret" Scripture, at some point they will put what they think it means and NOT what it says.

if you know of an online sight that does side by side Greek & English, post the link. we'll check it together. it's simply jusy not there.

Peace,

Yusuf

:w:

I'll go to the library and check in a Greek English RSV oh actually |I might know of a site. But I also thought that before but had no proof so I just said that the author believed that. Whether or not its in harmony with the rest of the bible is a different matter which is why I left the thread open, and not just said 'Thats it'

Hope that makes sense, and thank you for your patience bro.

[YusufNoor]

I'll go to the library and check in a Greek English RSV oh actually |I might know of a site. But I also thought that before but had no proof so I just said that the author believed that. Whether or not its in harmony with the rest of the bible is a different matter which is why I left the thread open, and not just said 'Thats it'

Hope that makes sense, and thank you for your patience bro.

:sl:

i might seem impatient with this stuff. but when we KNOW someone has changed scripture, or is "inventing lies" about G-d, i tend to come off as a raving lunatic! :rant: (understatement!) ;D

have for years, nothing to do with me being a Muslim now. THAT stuff has stuck in my craw for decades...


Peace

:w:

[Ninth_Scribe]

All the laws of the Torah that do not have to do with the Holy Temple, Holy Land that involves (things we cannot control because we dont have the info, that moshiach will bring) and sacrificing are until Moshiach.

To rebuilt the Holy Temple, begin sacrifices again without Moshiach is an abomination.

99% of the laws are mandatory, 1% however, must not be done before Moshiach.

Any other misunderstandings?

Well, there are quite a number of people who are getting ahead of themselves. They did create a state before Moshiach came, have been designing the (wait, must check the count...) fifth Temple, and they are attempting to genetically reproduce a red heifer, which wouldn't be half so bad if they tested it on themselves first (to discover their own truth). This goes well beyond 'misinterpretation' as you know, and is definately veering toward very dangerous ground.

The people who have charge over the Judeans today are not helping the Judeans... and I know who they are and what they hope to accomplish. All I suggest is that you learn from your history. Using a powerful alliance to accomplish your desires has back-fired on your people before... several times.

Ninth Scribe

P.S. The Am HaAretz are not your enemy... and they never were. Your enemies come from within. Remember, Moshiach will be an... 'Israelite'.

[Nuseyba bintkab]

good information