His only begotten son?

To the christians,

I was just listening to this talk by Ahmed Deedat, and he mentioned the following qoute from the bible:

This confuses me (just as it confuses him). Christians will always say the use of the word Son and Father as part of the trinity doesnt actually mean literally a father-son relationship. However, why then the specific use of the word begotten? And even the context of the verse makes it sound very much like a father-son relationship too. :?

Let us also define Begotten: (esp. of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring). (Source)

In Christianity, the term "Son of God" doesn't mean that God "produced" an offspring. Christ is not the literal "son" of God, but the reflection of his will. The term "son" of God is used many times in Old Testament. Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS of God shouted for joy." The word "son" in the context of the Gospel isn't describing God as having an offspring, but that God manifested his will through the birth of Jesus Christ.

Keltoi,peace, Does that mean we are all sons of God?Do u call fellow christians da term sons of God?

habiibti said:

Keltoi,peace, Does that mean we are all sons of God?Do u call fellow christians da term sons of God?

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In that sense yes, all Christians would be the sons and daughters of God, as we are obedient to Him. Do I personally call fellow Christians "Hello, son or daugher of God"....no, we don't talk like that anymore.

Ok thanks Keltoi, two question if you dont mind:

1. if teh bible refers to heaps of people as the son of God why is it that you only take Jesus to be the 'son' part of the trinity? :?

2. Also that still doesnt explain the specific use of the word begotten...

Malaikah said:

2. Also that still doesnt explain the specific use of the word begotten...

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Luke 1:


Source

Maybe those answer you?

I believe the Bible explains what it means by the word begot in Genesis. It is very specific about listing the linage of the prophets and it states who is the father of who by saying: "so and so begot so and so" It definetly means that the first is the physical father of the second.

Now in the NT we are told that "Jesus(as) is the only begotten Son of God(swt)" Yet, through out the old testament begot refers to being a physical father and not being the same person as the son.

Did something change?

Interesting point Woodrow! :shade:

Eesa, I think what you have done is support Woodrow's claim that begotten refers to physically fathering someone... ^o) I'm nor sure thought what point you wanted to make?

In any event, it is not Christian belief that God physically produced a child.

Keltoi said:

In any event, it is not Christian belief that God physically produced a child.

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That isnt a very convincing argument... :? Your own bible says he was begotten. So it would seem (to me) that you believe something that is contrary to what the bible says.:rollseyes

I'm not trying to make an accussation... I just want to know why you believe that when your holy book seems to imply the opposite.

Malaikah said:

That isnt a very convincing argument... :? Your own bible says he was begotten. So it would seem (to me) that you believe something that is contrary to what the bible says.:rollseyes

I'm not trying to make an accussation... I just want to know why you believe that when your holy book seems to imply the opposite.

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The Bible does not imply that Christ is the physical "son" of God. In the original Greek, the word "begotten" was actually "Monogenes" Mono meaning "only" or "alone" and "genos" which means "of the same nature, kind, sort, species, etc." A good translation I've seen, which I can't find the source of at the moment, describes the phrase as meaning "a lone being, a unique existence, the only one of its kind, that which has no duplicate" .
An example would be Isaac in the Old Testament. "For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman." Galations 4:22. Then of course we have the incident where Isaac sacrifices his "only begotten son"...when of course we know he had more than one child. However, was Isaac "unique" and "one of a kind"? Yes, because he was the "son of promise" and Ishmael was not.

So what we really have here is the trouble of translating some words from Greek into English. In many newer versions the passages mentioned above have been changed to this more accurate translation or a footnote has been added to account for this. However, as I stated earlier, it is not a Christian belief that God produced an offspring, regardless of the semantics.

A bit of a conflict here:

http://www.bibletruths.net/Archives/BTARO16.htm

Which origin is correct? laying: :rollseyes

Keltoi said:

The Bible does not imply that Christ is the physical "son" of God. In the original Greek, the word "begotten" was actually "Monogenes" Mono meaning "only" or "alone" and "genos" which means "of the same nature, kind, sort, species, etc." A good translation I've seen, which I can't find the source of at the moment, describes the phrase as meaning "a lone being, a unique existence, the only one of its kind, that which has no duplicate" .

So what we really have here is the trouble of translating some words from Greek into English. In many newer versions the passages mentioned above have been changed to this more accurate translation or a footnote has been added to account for this. However, as I stated earlier, it is not a Christian belief that God produced an offspring, regardless of the semantics.

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May you name us some translations please, I have heard Yusuf Estes say this too that aparently some say it is 'unique'.


Malaikah, I was just showing you what some feel is how mary concieved. The Power of the Almighty Overshadowed her, and the Holy Spirit came upon her.

Malaikah said:

A bit of a conflict here:

The meaning of only begotten. "Only begotten" is from the Greek monogenes. This word is used nine times in the Greek New Testament. The word is a compound word, mono, meaning only, and gennesis, meaning birth.​

http://www.bibletruths.net/Archives/BTARO16.htm

Which origin is correct? laying: :rollseyes

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They appear to say the same thing in my estimation. If you read the rest of the link you supplied.

Al Habeshi said:

May you name us some translations please, I have heard Yusuf Estes say this too that aparently some say it is 'unique'.


Malaikah, I was just showing you what some feel is how mary concieved. The Power of the Almighty Overshadowed her, and the Holy Spirit came upon her.

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Here is a rather long-winded diatribe about the various translations used for the word "begotten". It is about a quarter of the way down.

http://www.bible-researcher.com/niv.html

Keltoi said:

They appear to say the same thing in my estimation. If you read the rest of the link you supplied.

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I read the rest. It made no sense. :rollseyes

Greetings

It is interesting to read that this is such a difficult concept for Muslims, whereas it isn't for Christians at all.

Christians believe that God came down to earth in the form of Jesus. In order to do so, he needed a human form, a human body, to be born into.
God divinely caused Mary to become pregnant without her having intercourse with a man - hence he 'begot' Jesus in his human form.
I don't see anything difficult here at all.

People have said in other threads that Jesus was 100% human, but is also 100% God.
Jesus, the human, is merely a body for God to fulfill his earthly mission.
But Jesus is also God himself. Jesus (=God) was not begotten, nor created by God, he is and was one with God, ever since the beginning of time ...

I know that this is nigh impossible for Muslims to understand, and even less so to accept, but that's what Christians - based on Biblical teachings - believe.

The greatest stumbling block (for atheists) is how Mary could become pregnant being a virgin.
For Muslims and Christians alike, that's not a problem at all: God just can!
(Incidentally, how exactly - according to Islamic teachings - did God cause Mary to be with child?)

Peace

^Allah sent the angel Gabriel to her and he blew on (or into) her sleeve or and she conceived.

Hi,

glo said:

God divinely caused Mary to become pregnant without her having intercourse with a man - hence he 'begot' Jesus in his human form.

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glo said:

Jesus (=God) was not begotten, nor created by God, he is and was one with God, ever since the beginning of time

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So, the are two parts of Jesus, there is Jesus the body and Jesus the God, so Mary gave birth to Jesus the Body which was begoten by Jesus the God.

Hmm, so when Jesus was before the stage of being begoten he was 100% God, then Jesus God begot a body Jesus the body which is 100% Human, so then these two joined, Jesus God and Jesus Body came together to be Jesus 100% god and human.

So Jesus the body is a lifeless body in reality, when Jesus god leaves the body it is lifeless?

So now, at what time did Jesus God go into Jesus body, I mean it brings up questions, so the fetus of Jesus the body was also Jesus the God?
Also how is it possible for something to be two opposites, like an imortal and mortal.
How can someone be 100% God and 100% human?
At what point is Jesus the God distinguish himself from Jesus the body, was Jesus the body only a body without the mind and way of thinking of a man?
Was Jesus the God an active part in Jesus the body, if so then isn't that an unfair advantage in the battle against evil?

Cheese please do provide some evidence sister.

"And (remember) she who guarded her chastity [Virgin Maryam (Mary)], We breathed into (the sleeves of) her (shirt or garment) [through our Ruh (Jirrail- Gabriel)], and We made her and her son [Isa (Jesus)] a sign for Al-'Alamin (mankind and jinn)."

Chapter 12, Verse 19.