PDA

View Full Version : I believe in God, will i not gain salvation?



England
12-15-2006, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
^I dont know if his point was so much about praying in the church or not, but the main point is that Muslims do not pray for a person who died as a non-Muslim at all. We cant ask God to forgive them since they did not believe, we just leave them for God to deal with, and indeed He does not deal unjustly his slaves.
We believe in God. I adore God but I'm not Muslim. I don't follow your religion so because of that you believe me and other non-muslims will be dished out punishments for not being muslims despite my huge respect for God? I have done a great amount for people during my life. Some I think back on and feel proud about even now. I'm a very respected person and I have no enemies, but you still feel that God will punish me? Sounds silly to me.

God loves us all.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Keltoi
12-15-2006, 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by England
We believe in God. I adore God but I'm not Muslim. I don't follow your religion so because of that you believe me and other non-muslims will be dished out punishments for not being muslims despite my huge respect for God? I have done a great amount for people during my life. Some I think back on and feel proud about even now. I'm a very respected person and I have no enemies, but you still feel that God will punish me? Sounds silly to me.

God loves us all.
Christians also believe that eternal salvation can only be achieved through Jesus Christ. As the person you quoted mentioned, in the end our salvation is dependant upon God, not the opinion of a human being.
Reply

England
12-15-2006, 07:56 PM
That's weird. I didn't put this as a new thread, I put it inside someone's post, can't remember which. It's also been edited from the word "punishment"
Reply

Keltoi
12-15-2006, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by England
That's weird. I didn't put this as a new thread, I put it inside someone's post, can't remember which. It's also been edited from the word "punishment"
Is there a ghost in the machine? ;D
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
- Qatada -
12-15-2006, 08:03 PM
Hi England.


I've moved your thread because it wasn't as relevant to the previous topic. You can discuss it here more insha'Allaah.



Let's start off with the fact that the majority of the world believes in a God, or 'Higher being.' The difference between islaam and all other faiths is that instead of just recognising that there is a God, we believe that the Creator created us with the purpose of submitting to Him, worshipping Him alone sincerely without any associates.


These associates can be stone idols, it can be humans (or human legislations) it can be a person's desires etc.



Islaam call's to the worship of God, known as Allaah in arabic. If you're confused about why God is Allaah in arabic, realise that people from spain call God - Dios, the french call God - Dieu etc. Therefore we call God, Allaah in arabic.


Allaah has sent messengers to convey the same message of calling to the worship of God since the beginning of time, since Adam (peace be upon him) the first person to ever live. All the messengers came to call to Allaah's worship, and this is the purpose of our creation - to worship Allaah, without no associates, so no idols, no humans, no law which opposes the law which Allaah has revealed to His messengers.


We as muslims believe that Noah, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace be upon them all) were prophets. There have been a total of 124,000 prophets that have come to mankind to call to the worship of Allaah Alone. However, the majority of mankind has fallen astray, because they do believe in a Creator, but they reject the fact that He should be worshipped alone.


You as a christian may feel that Jesus is God, but we don't believe that God would humiliate himself on the earth by His own creation. That is blasphemy according to all faiths. Because God is All Powerful, and the creation can not harm Him whatsoever.



Any deeds we do, we do them sincerely to gain Allaah's Mercy, and if we gain it - we will enter the eternal paradise which all the prophets have called to also. However, if someone rejects the worship of the One God - without any associates, they will be punished in the hellfire. This is the only sin which God does not forgive, why should He, if the person is saying that a stone is God? Or a human is God etc.



We all will die and be raised back on the day of recompense, when Allaah/God will judge between us on all that we did. No-one will be judged unfairly because Allaah is the Most Just. Allaah can bring the dead back to life, the same way He brings the dead land back to life by sending down rain.



If you feel that God is being unfair to His servants by punishing those that associate partners with Him, then the justice for this will also be balanced out. Allaah will ask those who associated partners with Him to ask the one's they worshipped for reward. So if someone worshipped a stone idol, they will ask that for recompense on the day of judgement (obviously the stone won't be able to do anything.) If someone worships a human, even if the human is pious, the person will have to get their reward from this human [but obviously everything is dependant on the Creator.] The one's who worshipped God Alone, sincerely without no associates - they will be rewarded by Allaah, the Exhalted with an eternal paradise where they can have all that they desire, and more.



If anyone feels that it is unjust, then they have to stop being unjust to their own Creator. If Allaah created man so he should worship Him, then why worship the stone idol, or why worship a human when you can turn towards your Creator?




Allaah Almighty knows best.



Regards.
Reply

England
12-15-2006, 08:30 PM
Christians believe Jesus is God? That's far from the truth. Jesus is the son of God.
I believe in spiritualism and I've been to spiritualist churches and I have received many messages from family members that have passed. I had messages of "I'm in a better world," and "I'm young again, we're being looked after." These messages convinced me because they said stuff that no-one but me would have known, such as a cribbage board I found in the cupboard not long before that. My family members are Christians and haven't followed Islam. It seems they never met their fate....?
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
12-15-2006, 08:34 PM
Actually some believe Jesus(pbuh) to be both. Your view may be different.
Reply

- Qatada -
12-15-2006, 08:37 PM
Hi England.


I've heard many times on this forum christians claiming that Jesus is god, due to the trinity. The trinity cannot be a whole unless it has the 3 aspects of the father, the son and the spirit.

When a person responds that these 3 aspects are a form of polytheism, the christians say that it is one God, which then means that Jesus is god according to christians. Anyway, theres many threads regarding trinity so i don't want to go too deep into that.


Regarding your family members, if they were sincere in wanting to search for the truth, it is by Allaah's/God's Mercy that He would guide them to the truth. If the people did not hear about islaam, then on the day of ressurection, the scholars say that these people will be tested by God and if they pass this test - they may gain the salvation etc. respectively.



I respect the signs that you recieved, and faith is a really important part of islaam, external proof and action is equally as important. :) And Allaah Almighty knows best.



Regards.
Reply

Keltoi
12-15-2006, 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by England
Christians believe Jesus is God? That's far from the truth. Jesus is the son of God.
I believe in spiritualism and I've been to spiritualist churches and I have received many messages from family members that have passed. I had messages of "I'm in a better world," and "I'm young again, we're being looked after." These messages convinced me because they said stuff that no-one but me would have known, such as a cribbage board I found in the cupboard not long before that. My family members are Christians and haven't followed Islam. It seems they never met their fate....?
Perhaps you follow a different belief system, but the majority of Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God, albeit in human form. This has been explained numerous times in other threads, so I won't get into it again here.
Reply

England
12-15-2006, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Perhaps you follow a different belief system, but the majority of Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God, albeit in human form. This has been explained numerous times in other threads, so I won't get into it again here.
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that he was sent by God to provide salvation and reconciliation with God by atoning for the sins of humanity by his death.
Reply

Zulkiflim
12-15-2006, 09:05 PM
Salaam,

Let them sort it out first then we can discuss,if not if we call each of them chrsitian,we will get another thread admonishing us not to refer to the toehr as Christians..LOLOL

But back to topic...

An open question,if a tree fall down in the jungle and no one has knowledge of it,,did it actually fall down?

Man need senses and logic to understand and verify..

So the better question is,if a person who does not know god,does not do ungodly thing,but remain cheerfula nd good and do good deeds,,,will they enter heaven ....if they have never heard of Islam.or their own race religion?
Reply

aamirsaab
12-15-2006, 09:47 PM
:sl:
At the end of the day, God will decide our fate.

P.s; you could very well become a muslim by tomorrow night. You never know ;).
Reply

England
12-15-2006, 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
At the end of the day, God will decide our fate.

P.s; you could very well become a muslim by tomorrow night. You never know ;).
Nah. I'm sorry but I don't believe that we're put on this earth as a slave to God. The messages from relatives throught spiritualism has further backed up my opinion.
I believe that if you're good on earth, do God proud for helping people, not committing serious crimes, recognising that God exists then God will accept you and let you into heaven. If you commit terrorism, murder, child abuse and full of hate etc then you will not be accepted by God.

God has helped me through certain aspects of my life, and I appreciate that.
Reply

- Qatada -
12-15-2006, 10:01 PM
Hey England. :)


Does that mean that George Bush won't gain salvation if he's attacking innocents? Or people who do sin? Because doesn't every single person do sin?

And also, what was the 'salvation' for if anyone can enter heaven? No offence intended.
Reply

Keltoi
12-15-2006, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Hey England. :)


Does that mean that George Bush won't gain salvation if he's attacking innocents? Or people who do sin? Because doesn't every single person do sin?

And also, what was the 'salvation' for if anyone can enter heaven? No offence intended.
The very word "salvation" refers to the idea that one is not necessarily promised paradise, but one must achieve "salvation". This is the whole point of Christianity. With all due respect to England, and I'm not saying his belief system is "wrong", the Christian faith is about achieving salvation through Jesus Christ. There can be no salvation but through Him.
Reply

- Qatada -
12-15-2006, 10:15 PM
But why can't it just be through God Himself? Like, if God got humiliated by his own creation - isn't that blasphemy? Can't God just forgive His slaves if they turn to Him sincerely?


I seriosly don't want you to feel that i'm attacking you, but this all depends on our whole eternal hereafter so its something serios we all gota think about (something i have to think deeply about aswell.) :)



Regards.
Reply

Keltoi
12-15-2006, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
But why can't it just be through God Himself? Like, if God got humiliated by his own creation - isn't that blasphemy? Can't God just forgive His slaves if they turn to Him sincerely?


I seriosly don't want you to feel that i'm attacking you, but this all depends on our whole eternal hereafter so its something serios we all gota think about (something i have to think deeply about aswell.) :)



Regards.
Actually, it is through God Himself. Christians believe that the Word of God was manifest in Jesus Christ. The only authority that can give forgiveness for sin is God Himself. As shown in (John 10:30)...."I and the Father are One."
As for the humiliation aspect, that would be dependant upon God being unaware of future events, which(I believe) we would all agree can't be the case. Christians believe that God humbled himself as an act of mercy, to give mankind the ability to achieve salvation. As Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, he was 100% human, meaning he shared the same weaknesses all men and women possess. He didn't do this to "humiliate" himself, as the Body of Christ is eternal, but as an act of mercy. Hopefully that doesn't confuse you more..:)
Reply

Skillganon
12-15-2006, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by England
Nah. I'm sorry but I don't believe that we're put on this earth as a slave to God. The messages from relatives throught spiritualism has further backed up my opinion.
I believe that if you're good on earth, do God proud for helping people, not committing serious crimes, recognising that God exists then God will accept you and let you into heaven. If you commit terrorism, murder, child abuse and full of hate etc then you will not be accepted by God.

God has helped me through certain aspects of my life, and I appreciate that.
Actually we are put on earth ultimately to worship Allah. This woship is to the form of prayer as in worshiping him, abiding by his ordinances/revelation.
Thus we submit to him, become his servant(slave).

The the term "slave of Allah" is not unique to Islam, as all the prophet's that came to be were slave of Allah. Adam, Abraham, Issac, Ishmael, Moses, Aroan, John the Baptist, Jesus and Muhammad (pbut).

The all came with the simplest message To woship Allah only and Allah alone.

They submitted to Allah's will.

You can check the term "servant of God" and where it appear's in what you deem scriptures. It will be an interesting study.

P.s Recognising God is not enough but one has to submitt to his Will, surrender yourself.

Remember:

["O those of My servants who have transgressed against your own selves, despair not of God’s mercy. God does forgive all sins, for surely He is the most forgiving most merciful one."] (Az-Zumar: 53]
Reply

Malaikah
12-16-2006, 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by England
We believe in God. I adore God but I'm not Muslim. I don't follow your religion so because of that you believe me and other non-muslims will be dished out punishments for not being muslims despite my huge respect for God? I have done a great amount for people during my life. Some I think back on and feel proud about even now. I'm a very respected person and I have no enemies, but you still feel that God will punish me? Sounds silly to me.

God loves us all.
This coming from a christian. ^o)

If you had respect for God you would not claim things that are against your own religion, and you would not say many of the things you have said in many of your posts.

Respect for God isnt what you want it to be, it is very easy for people to respect God in their own way and by their own personal standards, because that way you dont have to compromise anything. But the reality is that you respect God by believing in Him and all His messengers and doing what He has allowed us to do and staying away from what He has prohibited for us.
Reply

Malaikah
12-16-2006, 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
As for the humiliation aspect, that would be dependant upon God being unaware of future events, which(I believe) we would all agree can't be the case.
Isn't that a contradiction?:? When you claim that God came down to Earth as Jesus you are implying that he gave up all His ability to see future events, He also gave up all His knowledge and His might and power, He was no longer all knowing, all seeing, all hearing , He even gave up his wisdom, and this is evidenced by his saying "god, why have you forsaken me" :?
Reply

glo
12-16-2006, 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Isn't that a contradiction?:? When you claim that God came down to Earth as Jesus you are implying that he gave up all His ability to see future events, He also gave up all His knowledge and His might and power, He was no longer all knowing, all seeing, all hearing , He even gave up his wisdom, and this is evidenced by his saying "god, why have you forsaken me" :?
Greetings, cheese

This issue is clearly rattling you.
Why not discuss it in one thread, rather than spreading it across many different threads and in the process taking those off topic?

Peace, sister :)
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
12-16-2006, 01:31 AM
Probably cuz it keeps coming up. Keltoi mentioned it, so she asked...im guessing. But yea it is kinda off topic...:)
Reply

Malaikah
12-16-2006, 01:32 AM
:sl:

thanks Tayyaba, yeh thats why I mentioned it...

Glo, okay I think I will start a thread on it.
Reply

Keltoi
12-16-2006, 01:35 AM
Originally Posted by Tayyaba
Probably cuz it keeps coming up. Keltoi mentioned it, so she asked...im guessing. But yea it is kinda off topic...:)
I was actually responding to a question raised by Fi_Sabilillah about the nature of salvation in Christianity.
Reply

glo
12-16-2006, 01:35 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

thanks Tayyaba, yeh thats why I mentioned it...

Glo, okay I think I will start a thread on it.
I think we probably have million threads on this already ... :giggling:
Perhaps you want to have a browse through the existing ones first?
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
12-16-2006, 01:36 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I was actually responding to a question raised by Fi_Sabilillah about the nature of salvation in Christianity.
^^Okay no problem :D
Reply

glo
12-16-2006, 01:41 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Glo, okay I think I will start a thread on it.
The concept of God being born in human form, is at length discussed here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...tml#post597088

Hope this helps, cheese :)
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
12-16-2006, 01:44 AM
Lol sis Cheese, ur in there and fresh at it! :D No need to start one :p
Reply

Umar001
12-16-2006, 06:19 PM
Hi England,

Your position has brought up some questions in my mind, for example, when Jesus is reported to have said "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters." What did he mean?

What do you make of verse like John 3:16, other passages that there is only one name through which salvation comes, and so forth, the fact taht noone gets to the Father except by/through Jesus.

Also, another thing that interests me, do you believe in demons, and evil spirits? Do you believe they can effect humans and decieve people??

Eesa.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-28-2013, 04:01 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-10-2011, 09:16 AM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-13-2009, 07:01 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-27-2008, 04:03 AM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-12-2007, 10:05 AM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!