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tresbien
12-28-2006, 02:50 PM
Question:
Why do you condemn the celebration of the what Christians think is birth of the son of God (Allah)? We should be teaching respect for other peoples and religions. Yet with such condemnation and calling it falsehood, it makes it difficult for rational, honest, and respectful persons to communicate.

Answer:

Praise be to the One God, who begets not, nor is begotten.

You seem to have misinterpreted the condemnation of celebration of Christmas as a matter of disrespect for Christians. In reality, it is out of respect for Allah and Jesus and the teachings of our Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon them. It is an integral part of our faith to reject celebrations that have not been prescribed and/or that have a basis in falsehood, as inevitably they lead to misguidance and alterations in faith, as has happened with Christianity. There is nothing "radical" or "fringe" about this. It is our basic right to protect our faith and practice from distortion and falsehood. Surely no one has a right to condemn us for this.

Do you think Encyclopedia Britannica is rational and honest? Please read what they have to say about Christmas:

Excerpts quoted directly from http://www.britannica.com :

The word Christmas is derived from the Old English Cristes maesse, "Christ's Mass." :

( There is no certain tradition of the date of Christ's birth. Christian chronographers of the 3rd century believed that the creation of the world took place at the spring equinox, then reckoned as March 25; hence the new creation in the incarnation (i.e., the conception) and death of Christ must therefore have occurred on the same day, with his birth following nine months later at the winter solstice, December 25).

...

According to a Roman almanac, the Christian festival of Christmas was celebrated in Rome by AD 336...

( The reason why Christmas came to be celebrated on December 25 remains uncertain, but most probably the reason is that early Christians wished the date to coincide with the pagan Roman festival marking the "birthday of the unconquered sun" ) (natalis solis invicti); this festival celebrated the winter solstice, when the days again begin to lengthen and the sun begins to climb higher in the sky. The traditional customs connected with Christmas have accordingly developed from several sources as a result of the coincidence of the celebration of the birth of Christ with the pagan agricultural and solar observances at midwinter. In the Roman world the Saturnalia (December 17) was a time of merrymaking and exchange of gifts. December 25 was also regarded as the birth date of the Iranian mystery god Mithra, the Sun of Righteousness. On the Roman New Year (January 1), houses were decorated with greenery and lights, and gifts were given to children and the poor. To these observances were added the http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/ar...,00.htmlGerman and Celtic Yule rites when the Teutonic tribes penetrated into Gaul, Britain, and central Europe. Food and good fellowship, the Yule log and Yule cakes, greenery and fir trees, and gifts and greetings all commemorated different aspects of this festive season. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter festival, both pagan and Christian. Since the European Middle Ages, evergreens, as symbols of survival, have been associated with Christmas... [end quote]

So as any rational person can see, there is no sound basis for Christmas, nor did Jesus (peace be upon him) or his true followers celebrate Christmas or ask anyone to celebrate Christmas, nor was there any record of anyone calling themselves Christians celebrating Christmas until several hundred years after Jesus. So were the companions of Jesus more righteously guided in not celebrating Christmas or are the people of today?

So if you want to respect Jesus, peace be upon him, as Muslims do, don't celebrate some fabricated event that was chosen to coincide with pagan festivals and copy pagan customs. Do you honestly think God, or even Jesus himself, would approve or condemn such a thing? If you say approve, then obviously you are not interested in the truth.

We ask Allaah, the One, Singular God, with no partners or sons, the God of all creation and mankind, to guide us all to the path of guidance and sincerity.
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IzakHalevas
12-28-2006, 03:04 PM
In reality, it is out of respect for Allah and Jesus and the teachings of our Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon them.
To show respect to what in your mind is a teacher of tolerance and peace is to basically condemn a holiday of another religion?

Do you think Encyclopedia Britannica is rational and honest? Please read what they have to say about Christmas:

Excerpts quoted directly from http://www.britannica.com :

The word Christmas is derived from the Old English Cristes maesse, "Christ's Mass." :

( There is no certain tradition of the date of Christ's birth. Christian chronographers of the 3rd century believed that the creation of the world took place at the spring equinox, then reckoned as March 25; hence the new creation in the incarnation (i.e., the conception) and death of Christ must therefore have occurred on the same day, with his birth following nine months later at the winter solstice, December 25).
So?

According to a Roman almanac, the Christian festival of Christmas was celebrated in Rome by AD 336...

( The reason why Christmas came to be celebrated on December 25 remains uncertain, but most probably the reason is that early Christians wished the date to coincide with the pagan Roman festival marking the "birthday of the unconquered sun" ) (natalis solis invicti); this festival celebrated the winter solstice, when the days again begin to lengthen and the sun begins to climb higher in the sky.
More likely however it was because Sextus Julius Africanus popularized the idea that Jesus was born on December 25 in his Chronographiai, a reference book for Christians written in AD 221.

Christmas, Encyclopædia Britannica Chicago: Encyclopædia Britannica, 2006.
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Malaikah
12-31-2006, 11:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IzakHalevas
To show respect to what in your mind is a teacher of tolerance and peace is to basically condemn a holiday of another religion?
Well if someone asked us what we think of Christmas we could hardly reply "Oh I think it is great!" now could we?

We do not like Christmas and we do not have to pretend we do in the name of 'tolerance' and 'peace'. Just because we do not like something and condemn it, doesn't mean we are forcing our opinions on the Christians. They have the right of celebrating it, and our dislike of it makes no difference to that.
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sudais1
01-05-2007, 05:11 AM
does our rejection of this celebration cause catastrophe, i suppose not. I can not speak for all Muslims but why should I celebrate with other in which i believe is completely wrong. By my celebrating of Christmas i would feel i have betrade Allah by celebrating a day in which Christians believe God or his son was born. I am against this practice. God is one, he does not beget or was he begotten.



La illa ha illal lal lah Muhammad dar Rassulul lah


any bro's in saudi, wanna meet some bro's in saudi when i come is the summer:D
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Grace Seeker
01-08-2007, 06:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sudais1
does our rejection of this celebration cause catastrophe, i suppose not. I can not speak for all Muslims but why should I celebrate with other in which i believe is completely wrong. By my celebrating of Christmas i would feel i have betrade Allah by celebrating a day in which Christians believe God or his son was born. I am against this practice. God is one, he does not beget or was he begotten.
I suppose we will all go through this again in another 50 weeks, but in 2007 Christmas and the Eid will come in the same week. That should be interesting.

Anyway, it would be ridiculous for anyone to suggest to a non-Christian that they should celebrate Christmas. But then, ridiculous is exactly what you get in the month of December if you live in the USA, where some elements of society act as if everyone should celebrate it by buying a Chia Pet or a a Clapper, or some other useless object in order to increase sales revenue.

So, my apologies to my Musilm friends for having to put up with some of the riduculousness that seems to have attached itself to the celebration of Christmas. I hope you understand that such things are no more part of Christmas than an obligatory family feast is part of the celebration of the Eid or gift givin to children is part of the celebration at the conclusion of Ramadan, but people like to include these things for various reasons I will leave to those who practice them to explain.

As to all of the issues about the dating of Christ's birth, I don't get the relevance of those points. Few really believe that Jesus was born on December 25. But we do believe that he was born. And we want to celebrate his life and part of that is celebrating that he was born. Now we could pick any date, any one of 365 days would have been good enough. Sure there were probably some ulterior motives involved in settling on a date near the winter solstice. Big deal. That doesn't change the nature and purpose of the celebration -- which is to celebrate that Jesus was born.

Given that he was born, this comment -- "So as any rational person can see, there is no sound basis for Christmas" -- quoted from the opening post, makes no sense. I am generally considered a rational person, at least no one has locked me up as senile yet, and yet I believe there is a sound basis for celebrating Christmas.

Argue the date if you want to. Argue the folly of the present forms of celebration. Argue that you don't believe in the incarnation. But don't argue that for those who do believe that there is no sound basis to celebrate Christmas, there is. Indeed there is the most sound basis imaginable for Christmas. Jesus was born. What more of a reason does one need.
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north_malaysian
01-08-2007, 07:03 AM
How about Ashura? We're encourage to fast right? and it's Jewish celebration (Passover)...:?
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Malaikah
01-08-2007, 07:14 AM
:sl:

^Yes but it is a Muslim practise too, the prophet approved of it.
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north_malaysian
01-08-2007, 08:02 AM
are there any other celebrations we adapt, or it just Passover?
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