Teachers Should Lie To Their Students

[Pygoscelis]

I strongly believe that gradeschool teachers should lie to the children at the end of their time of being their teacher, such as just prior to graduation from lower school or whatever (grade 8 where I'm at).

Start subtle and see who catches on. Get those who catch on to agree to play along with the ruse, and make the ruse more and more elaborate and obviously flawed as you go, until all of the students have caught on.

This would be a very fun game of deception that children would both enjoy and learn (a lot) from. It would teach them not to blindly accept what authority figures have to say.

[lolwatever]

huh? you're kidding right :?

Funny if so :lol:



:rollseyes:

[Skillganon]

I strongly believe that gradeschool teachers should lie to the children at the end of their time of being their teacher, such as just prior to graduation from lower school or whatever (grade 8 where I'm at).

Start subtle and see who catches on. Get those who catch on to agree to play along with the ruse, and make the ruse more and more elaborate and obviously flawed as you go, until all of the students have caught on.

This would be a very fun game of deception that children would both enjoy and learn (a lot) from. It would teach them not to blindly accept what authority figures have to say.

Nice theory, but it is assuming to much.

Assuming the person will learn. He might but their is no gurantee.
Assuming the person can easily differentiate between a deception and something that is authentic.
It might make them quite edgey and make them obsessed in not trusting anyyone (phobia).
Their is some flaw in it. One need to have some basic criterion to make judgement but that will not stop one from being deceived.

[sevgi]

a fun game of deception? is there such a thing?:blind:

the childeren of today are so deeply hypnotised by todays media and music and junk, there are very few who sit back, even on the bus, to think of what is true and what is false,about what is worthy and what is not, about what is just and what is not...and all the valuable questions one should be preoccupied with in order to gain their own understanding of events and situations....

ur hypothesis (NOT THEORY) would simply drag the kids deep into ur game.as you dig deeper, they will fall in.few would dare to look up, see the light and try to climb out.they will just go with the flow and ruin themselves in ur "fun game of deception" coz all they're caring about is which track the Black eyed peas are gna release next...

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[SilentObserver]

It might be beneficial for the students that are bright enough to catch on, and are also bright enough to see the lesson in it. But what of the students that are lacking in intelligence? It may just confuse them and cause them to become distrustful. These are the students that the last two posters warn might not benefit.

[Malaikah]

It may just confuse them and cause them to become distrustful.

Exactly. Either way, it is haram to lie.

[strider]

A teacher once did that to me, years back now, but it still makes me think twice about things till this day!

Although it maybe something worth considering, there is no way such action could be justified. A student maybe left psychologically traumatised for a long time.

[syilla]

sometimes human think they think better than the others....

sometimes human think they are so great...that others are so stupid

i wonder when the human can be humble and truly learn...

[Pygoscelis]

a fun game of deception? is there such a thing?:blind:

Oh absolutely! You don't enjoy games of critical thinking?

ur hypothesis (NOT THEORY) would simply drag the kids deep into ur game.

That is an awfully pessimistic view. I believe that most if not all children would catch on rather quickly. If not, then they will catch on later, as the ruse becomes more and more obvious. Even the most dense will have to wonder when you start stating blatantly obvious untruths.

As for them becoming distrustful of authority, that is the point. The lesson is to get them not to blindly accept whatever teacher says, which should carry over to society at large.

As you noted people today are like sheep and are very easily herded by the media. They will believe and follow without question way too easily.

THe reason for it being a teacher at the end of their time as teacher is to avoid ruining any important relationship with the ruse.

It is just a theory yes. Just a thought I had. I've been taking in input from various boards and I thank the folks who have responded for their views, and encourage others to post theirs. Don't feel you must agree with me. Don't feel you must agree with the majority of responses. Lemme know what you really think :)

[hamidah]

salamzz
what! is that for real?

[AmarFaisal]

Well I have a concern, lies cannot be taught to children in any form. The thought forming the basis of your theory is very strong. We have to teach children to not be a sheep in the herd. Nevertheless, there can be other ways/games/activities to ensure that our students understand this.

For eg., for middle school or higher school students the teacher can select articles from out dated newspapers/gossip magazines, of whom she knows the conclusion. The article can envolve the students' favourite celebrity/character/situation/issue to arouse interest. Then the article can be read and discussed in the classroom. The teacher can ask students to put forward a conclusion to the issue of what they might think is true or false in the article etc. In the end, the teacher can tell her students the aftermath of the whole news/gossip.

Students will learn that all that appears in the media and around them is not always true. "All That Gliters Is Not Gold"

[lolwatever]

Oh absolutely! You don't enjoy games of critical thinking?



That is an awfully pessimistic view. I believe that most if not all children would catch on rather quickly. If not, then they will catch on later, as the ruse becomes more and more obvious. Even the most dense will have to wonder when you start stating blatantly obvious untruths.

As for them becoming distrustful of authority, that is the point. The lesson is to get them not to blindly accept whatever teacher says, which should carry over to society at large.

As you noted people today are like sheep and are very easily herded by the media. They will believe and follow without question way too easily.

THe reason for it being a teacher at the end of their time as teacher is to avoid ruining any important relationship with the ruse.

It is just a theory yes. Just a thought I had. I've been taking in input from various boards and I thank the folks who have responded for their views, and encourage others to post theirs. Don't feel you must agree with me. Don't feel you must agree with the majority of responses. Lemme know what you really think :)

Heya Pygo.. seing ur serious about it.

Islam forbids lying full stop, regardless of the motive. Except under three conditions.

1. To reconcilse between two people.
2. In case of war.
3. Husbands speech to wife and visa versa.

Your proposal doesn't fulfill either of those rquirements, so we can't support it :sunny:

*honestly im not tryin 2 stir nething here... just sayin!*

tc all the best.

[Pygoscelis]

Thank you. So I can safely assume that any muslim would oppose this idea, or lies in general except for under those conditions? I'm collecting data on the idea from numerous boards. Thanks for the representative islamic view.

[lolwatever]

Thank you. So I can safely assume that any muslim would oppose this idea, or lies in general except for under those conditions? I'm collecting data on the idea from numerous boards. Thanks for the representative islamic view.

yeh i guess so :)

Btw I'm not trying ot play spokesperson btw... just quoting what the Prophet himself said, which is what a Muslim would agree to abide by :?

[Abdul Fattah]

Well I think it's dangerous, Mark twain once said, a lie can travel halfway past the globe before the truth can even put his shoes on. How can you keep the experiment from going out of hand? The last thing we want is yet another misconception on the world.
I would say: People love to spread the poison, but don't always bother spreading the antidote.

[Skillganon]

One thing people forget is that one does not have to lie to decieve.

[sevgi]

like decptive gestures and looks ayyy??

[Skillganon]

like decptive gestures and looks ayyy??

Nope:

Imagine a Jigsaw Puzzle. I select the pieces and reveal it to you and leave out other pieces. You get a picture based on that and henceforth make you react in a certain way or lull you into something.

What I don't show you is the complete picture. Deception.

[sevgi]

hmmmmm....

i guess we shud leave this 'deception' to the pros...u seem like an experienced deciever urself...:)

[Nablus]

The teacher should be the symbole for the students so what ever he face he should say the truth or let the topic open for his students to think and analyse

[SilentObserver]

One thing people forget is that one does not have to lie to decieve.

Deceiving is lying. They are not seperate things. Some people try to use this lame excuse as a way to deceive themselves into believing that they are not sinning.

[Pygoscelis]

Muslims are forbidden to lie even as a game? Would you be forbidden to bluff when playing poker? Just curious.

[lolwatever]

Muslims are forbidden to lie even as a game? Would you be forbidden to bluff when playing poker? Just curious.

yep.

[Malaikah]

Would you be forbidden to bluff when playing poker? Just curious.

Whats poker? Is that one of those gambling games? If so, that is forbidden itself...

[Duhaa]

^ HUH?!

Is there no other way that you can teach the kids about 'not blindly accepting what authority figures have to say'?

I find that kids like plain talking, so tell them as it is, i.e. tell them that people can lie and deceive and so you should think about things before accepting what they have to say....
Grade 8, meaning about age 10-11 right? If so then let the innocent live innocently, they usually learn as they grow older....just my opinion, a bit like when parents don't tell their kids about Father Christmas being imaginary....

But if you really want to do this thing, don't you think the kids will start not trusting what you say, if you get what I'm saying?
How would you go about it? Curious........

[Pygoscelis]

Whats poker? Is that one of those gambling games? If so, that is forbidden itself...

Are you serious or making a funny? You don't know what Poker is?

Is poker a game known only in North America? I was under the belief that it was known worldwide.

It is a card game. It can be a gambling game, but doesn't have to be.

[Pygoscelis]

^ HUH?!

Is there no other way that you can teach the kids about 'not blindly accepting what authority figures have to say'?

I don't think any other way would truly get the message accross as well.

I find that kids like plain talking, so tell them as it is, i.e. tell them that people can lie and deceive and so you should think about things before accepting what they have to say....

That will only make them alert for dishonest people, outgroup people, people unlike themselves and unlike the authority figures they follow.

Grade 8, meaning about age 10-11 right?

I'm pretty sure 10 or 11 is way too young for grade 8. Grade 8 is one grade before highschool.

they usually learn as they grow older....just my opinion, a bit like when parents don't tell their kids about Father Christmas being imaginary....

The Santa lie is a perfect example of telling lies to children which often later makes them better critical thinkers. It is unfortunate that the Santa lie is so emotionally charged though. When they find out they may be like "WHAT?! No more presents? Maybe I better not tell anybody I know, I'll keep getting presents that way" hehe

But if you really want to do this thing, don't you think the kids will start not trusting what you say, if you get what I'm saying?

Yes. That is the purpose. And that is why you have the teacher do it near the end of their term as that child's teacher. And in gereral, if I'm teaching somebody I don't want them blindly accepting everything I say. I want them engaged in critical thought and learning by thinking, not memorizing or blindly accepting.

[lolwatever]

^ actually i had no idea wat poker was either, which is why i only commented on the first bit :hiding: ive heard the word b4 tho... used in context of gambling... but no idea wat it actually was till u jsut xplained.

[Duhaa]

I'm pretty sure 10 or 11 is way too young for grade 8. Grade 8 is one grade before highschool.

In England that's the age you are before going to high school, or secondary school as it's known here.....

....Plainly speaking, I wouldn't want a kid of mine to be in your class, lol, they'd come home and tell lies, 'coz if the teacher's doing it then why can't I...

...but you're entitled to your opinion of course, and I don't think I'm moving to Canada any time in the near future so....;D