Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
hola Muslim Woman,
this is very distressing... these missionaries are completely breaching ad gentest (which is a sin). Ad gentes is the Church constitution on missionary activity, it is unquestionable doctrine of faith, nobody can ignore it (anything produced from a Council is sinful to ignore... like Nicea or Constantinope or Vatican II).
first, every Catholic is called to spread the gospel... but not in the same ways. lay auxiliaries are not
allowed to teach anything to anyone... our work is to serve in the manner of our particular calling, but make it generally known that we do this as part of a Christian mission... if somebody asks why i am helping them i must truthfully answer "this is what Christ taught and commanded us to do," if they express a desire to know more their questions are directed toward the particular priest that the Church has designated is responsible for actually teaching Christian fundamentals...
23. Although every disciple of Christ, as far in him lies, has the duty of spreading the Faith,(1) Christ the Lord always calls whomever He will from among the number of His disciples, to be with Him and to be sent by Him to preach to the nations (cf. Mark 3:13). Therefore, by the Holy Spirit, who distributes the charismata as He wills for the common good (1 Cor. 12:11), He inspires the missionary vocation in the hearts of individuals, and at the same time He raises up in the Church certain institutes(2) which take as their own special task the duty of preaching the Gospel, a duty belonging to the whole Church.
They are assigned with a special vocation who, being endowed with a suitable natural temperament, and being fit as regards talent and other qualities, have been trained to undertake mission work
;(3) or be they autochthonous or be they foreigners: priests, Religious, or laymen. Sent by legitimate authority, they go out in faith and obedience to those who are far from Christ. They are set apart for the work for which they have been taken up (cf. Acts 13:2), as ministers of the Gospel, "that the offering up of the Gentiles may become acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Spirit" (Rom. 15:16).
all Catholics are called to spread the gospel, not all Catholics are called to do mission work, and even within this not all Catholics are called to specifically teach Christian doctrine and initiate catecumens... there are many levels of training and vocation to bring you to that point.
next under absolutely no circumstances is a mission allowed to use the good works associated with it (education, health care, food kitches et cetera) as a threat or allurement:
"The Church strictly forbids forcing anyone to embrace the Faith, or alluring or enticing people by worrisome wiles. By the same token, she also strongly insists on this right, that no one be frightened away from the Faith by unjust vexations on the part of others.(2)"
somebody who is truly interested in embracing Catholicism must go through examinations, classes and several months of seriously thought and prayer (and tests from the Church) to make sure that this is genuine (sometimes they do not even know) to make sure that it is not something that has been forced, or something that is the result of enticement... only then do they become Catecumens... this is not actually a full member of the Church yet, this is somebody who has expressed a desire to become Catholic, has been examined so that we know their reasons are true, and know what being Catholic means... at this phase they are being taught specifically how to be a Catholic in all ways, this is done through classes, the next step after that is to be a full fledged member of the Catholic Church
you do not become Catholic overnight
In accord with the Church's ancient custom, the convert's motives should be looked into, and if necessary, purified.
14. Those who, through the Church, have accepted from God a belief in Christ(3) are admitted to the catechumenate by liturgical rites. The catechumenate is not a mere expounding of doctrines and precepts, but a training period in the whole Christian life, and an apprenticeship duty drawn out, during which disciples are joined to Christ their Teacher. Therefore, catechumens should be properly instructed in the mystery of salvation and in the practice of Gospel morality, and by sacred rites which are to be held at successive intervals,(4) they should be introduced into the life of faith, of liturgy, and of love, which is led by the People of God.
Then, when the sacraments of Christian initiation have freed them from the power of darkness (cf. Col. 1:13),(5) having died with Christ been buried with Him and risen together with Him (cf. Rom. 6:4-11; Col. 2:12-13; 1 Peter 3:21-22; Mark 16:16), they receive the Spirit (cf. 1 Thess. 3:5-7; Acts 8:14-17) of adoption of sons and celebrate the remembrance of the Lord's death and resurrection together with the whole People of God.
futhermore Missionaries of all callings are periodically examined by the Church to be certain that their methods and motives are still pure... that for example lay witnesses are serving in the true capacity for which they were called (in my case as a nurse) and for the true reasons which they are meant to serve (to serve Christ in the manner he told us to, ministering to (in my case) the sick) and to demonstrate Christian behavior). missionaries continue to go through classes and training.
The heralds of the Gospel lest they neglect the grace which is in them, should be renewed day by day in the spirit of their mind (cf. 1 Tim. 4:14; Eph. 4:23; 2 Cor. 4:16). Their Ordinaries and superiors should gather the missionaries together from time to time, that they be strengthened in the hope of their calling and may be renewed in the apostolic ministry, even in houses expressly set up for this purpose.
25. For such an exalted task, the future missionary is to be prepared by a special spiritual and moral training.(5) For he must have the spirit of initiative in beginning, as well as that of constancy in carrying through what he has begun; he must be persevering in difficulties, patient and strong of heart in bearing with solitude, fatigue, and fruitless labor. He will encounter men with an open mind and a wide heart; he will gladly take up the duties which are entrusted to him; he will with a noble spirit adapt himself to the people's foreign way of doing things and to changing circumstances; while in the spirit of harmony and mutual charity, he will cooperate with his brethren and all who dedicate themselves to the same task, so that together with the faithful, they will be one heart and one soul (cf. Acts 2:42; 4:32)(7) in imitation of the apostolic community.
These habits of mind should be earnestly exercised already in his time of training; they should be cultivated, and should be uplifted and nourished by the spiritual life. Imbued with a living faith and a hope that never fails, the missionary should be a man of prayer. Let him have an ardent spirit of power and of love and of prudence (cf. 2 Tim. 1:7). Let him learn to be self - sufficing in whatever circumstances (Phil. 4:11); always bearing about in himself the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may work in those to whom he is sent (2 Cor. 4:10ff.), out of zeal of souls, let him gladly spend all and be spent himself for souls (cf. 2 Cor. 12:15ff.), so that "by the daily practice of his duty he may grow in the love of God and neighbor."(8) Thus obedient to the will of the Father together with Christ, he will continue His mission under the hierarchical authority of the Church
the Church also commands us to respect the culture we are in, and not turn our mission into cultural imperialism (bring the Word, not McDonalds)
Therefore, all missionaries - priests, Brothers, Sisters, and lay folk - each according to their own state, should be prepared and trained, lest they be found unequal to the demands of their future work.(9) From the very beginning, their doctrinal training should be so planned that it takes in both the universality of the Church and the diversity of the world's nations. This holds for all of their studies by which they are prepared for the exercise of the ministry, as also for the other studies which it would be useful for them to learn, that they may have a general knowledge of the peoples, cultures, and religions; not only a knowledge that looks to the past, but one that considers the present time. For anyone who is going to encounter another people should have a great esteem for their patrimony and their language and their customs. It is very necessary for the future missionary to devote himself to missiological studies: that is, to know the teachings and norms of the Church concerning missionary activity, to know along what roads the heralds of the Gospel have run in the course of the centuries, and also what is the present condition of the missions, and what methods are considered more effective at the present time.(8)
also, training and a thorough understanding of ad gentes (and the many other documents which control missionary activities) is not on the job or something done in a clandestine ad hoc basis... the Church commands that missionaries attend special schools, actual classes and genuine instruction before attending a mission.
Some should be more thoroughly prepared in missiological institutes or in other faculties or universities, so that they may be able to discharge special duties more effectively(12) and be a help, by their learning, to other missionaries in carrying on the mission work, which especially in our time presents so many difficulties and opportunities. It is moreover highly desirable that the regional episcopal conferences should have available an abundance of such experts, and that they should make fruitful use of their knowledge and experience in the necessities of their office. Nor should there be wanting some who are perfectly skilled in the use of practical instruments and the means of social communication, the importance of which should be highly appreciated by all.
there is much more to ad gentes, it is worth reading... (here is a link
) if you meet with a Catholic missionary who is as you have said above it is very important to know that they are doing something very wrong and you must report this to the bishop or the local mission council immediately... especially with food and medical things... there are numerous organizations repsonsible for medical ethics specifically as it relates to medical Catholic missions... I answered to the Catholic Medical Missionary Board (CMMB), and they are very serious about medical ethics.
medical ethics are something unversal in all medical fields, but on top of this the added ethical responsibilities of ad gentes and a mission make this a very particular field...
I met with a young Muslim long ago who became Christian because he was told , not a single Christian will get any punishment from God because of Jesus (p)…..i guess , it’s not the Truth , right ?
yes this is completely untrue, the only punishment we are gauranteed freedom from punishment of is Original Sin. beyond this Jesus has enabled us to be free from Sin by making himself our "sin offering," as the Jews were commanded to make under the Old Covenant. but just like the Sin Offering in the OT was not the only thing they were required to do in atonement, Catholics must also: confess their sin to God (through the Church), apologise (Oh my God I am heartly sorry for having offended thee), the sacrifice has already been made (Jesus, lamb of God), perform a penance which is some kind of activity that we must do to right our wrong... (a fast, special prayers, charitable works, something like this), and finally repentence which means giving the sin up.
this five step process occurs in the act of confession, that is where Gods saving grace the Lamb of God works with us to bring us forgiveness. Anyone who dies without confessing their sins will go to in some cases purgatory, to be purged of their sins (usually if you have committed a venial sin, or have not complete penance for mortal sins, purgatory is your penance), or you will go to Hell to be punished for your unrepented Cardinal sins.
God is most gracious, most forgiving and most good... He has given His only son to be sacrificed on our behalf just as Abraham was asked to. but He did this only to enable us to once again have forgiveness (our sins were and are too great for a sacrificial goat or lamb, this is why Jesus was needed), we must actively play a role in our forgiveness through thought, heart and action with faith in God.
if we just thing of Jesus as a credit card who already paid the bill so we may now do whatever we want, we are blaspheming because we are abusing his sacrifice for us.
whoever told this person that was lying and leading them into a terrible misfortune... i hope his conscience will guide him back toward right belief, we must all answer for our sins either in this life or in the next. God is just.
---but I read in a revert story that Popes corrected other Popes rulilng/command . So , it means they are not infallible.
Papal infallibility is a specific thing that occurs in only certain circumstances... for example, the Popes have infallibly declared that Mary did not die, she rose into heaven, but the Popes have not infallibly declared that only men can be priests... all the same infallibly declared or not we must obey. Popes frequently perfect the standing doctrines they have inherited from other Popes and Councils, when the situation occurs that there is now greater knowledge or something like that...
I found the conditions for ex cathedra:
the conditions required for ex cathedra teaching are as follows:
1. "the Roman Pontiff"
2. "speaks ex cathedra" ("that is, when in the discharge of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, and by virtue of his supreme apostolic authority….")
3. "he defines"
4. "that a doctrine concerning faith or morals"
5. "must be held by the whole Church" (Pastor Aeternus, chap. 4)
it is something that must be positively identified "i am now speaking infallibly through my office of Pope"
here are the only seven instances of Papal infallibility in the history of Christianity:
* "Tome to Flavian", Pope Leo I, 449, on the two natures in Christ, received by the Council of Chalcedon;
* Letter of Pope Agatho, 680, on the two wills of Christ, received by the Third Council of Constantinople;
* Benedictus Deus, Pope Benedict XII, 1336, on the beatific vision of the just prior to final judgment;
* Cum occasione, Pope Innocent X, 1653, condemning five propositions of Jansen as heretical;
* Auctorem fidei, Pope Pius VI, 1794, condemning seven Jansenist propositions of the Synod of Pistoia as heretical;
* Ineffabilis Deus, Pope Pius IX, 1854, defining the immaculate conception; and
* Munificentissimus Deus, Pope Pius XII, 1950, defining the assumption of Mary.
i do not think that the person who told you Popes have contradicted or corrected these seven instances was being completely accurate... as far as i know these are standing doctrine, and are considered closed topics by everybody including succeeding Popes... in fact in recent years the Holy Father has met with the Holy Father of Antioch and the Holy Father of Antioch declared an end to their heretical monophysitic beliefs... embracing the infallibly declared decree of 680...
----if they do some horrible acts like child molestation , then will it be allowed for lay person to raise questions ? BTW , how so many immoral acts happened inside the Church if Satan can not win there ?
a Pope would never do such a thing... but it has happened that priests and seminarians have done such things... priests are not infallible, they are servants of the Church, ministering on behalf of the Church to the lay. if they become disobedient to the Church the lay must report this to their bishop so that the bishop can go through the proper channels to punish them and or eject them from the Church (excommunication).
as for the second part of your question, Jesus did not say the Church cannot be struck by Satan, he said that Satan cannot prevail against the Church, so i think it is important to look at the long term... and also consider the circumstances of what has happened, because sometimes people acting in the name of the Church are doing things the Church strictly commands against.
this happened with the Crusades, when the Pope authorized noblemen to go to aid the byzantine empire in returning the Holy Land back to Christianity so that our Churches and pilgrims could be safe again. instead there was a mass exodus of warlords from europe that the Pope could not control, who ignored and sometimes pillaged the eastern empire they were meant to aid, then ravaged everyone in the Holy Land... these were not things that the Pope told them to do...
likewise if you look at the inquisition you see the Pope authorizing inquisitions to determine if heresy is spreading in spain, just like he had authorized in italy (asking people questions and teaching correct orthodoxy... not torture and imprisonment), but in Spain King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella requested that the inquisition simply be authorized by the Pope but not under his control... there was no oversight by the Holy See and it was staffed by secular men answering to the king... and so it became a vehicle of nationalism and revenge used by the royals to keep their country in control rather than to seek our heresy and teach orthodoxy...
in the history of inquisitions (there have been many well before the spanish) no inquisition was in the control of royal leaders or a nation... this was the first and last time ever... in fact inquisitions only have jurisdiction over baptised Catholics, for good reason why would anyone expect a Jewish person or Muslim to accept the authority of the Church or even know what orthodoxy is? the Pope had no idea that the royals intended to use the inquisition as a device of repression...
you can read about this on the wikipedia
there is also the selling of indulgences, which according to Protestants is when the Church was literally selling freedom from sin for money so that the Church could build a new Rome... but again it is not as simple as this. indulgences are official documents from the Church that grant you freedom from havig to do a penance, you still must confess and repent. usually they are given if a penance is required but the person is unable to perform it for health reasons (this is often the case near death)...
this is what was being sold... but even then it is complicated the actual selling of indulgences was something being done by a german friar named Johann Tetzel who said "As soon a coin in coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs." and then you would give him money and he would give you a piece of paper saying that you are obsolved of all sins and misdeeds...
this man was a maniac... Luther misunderstood and thought it was something the Pope required or requested so he had his reformation, in truth once Tetzel was found out about (and also his embezzelling and other crimes) he was ordered to not leave his monastary and was stripped of his responsibilites and facing an inquisition when he died of sickness.
---are u sure , all the Churches were destroyed ? In Islam , it’s not allowed to destroy prayer places. Anyway , if a bad Muslim ruler destroyed some or all (?) Churches , it does not justify the extreme cruelty of the Crusaders.
yes all Churches were destroyed... this man was not following islam, he was a lunatic, and the environment he created against christians that lasted for the following decades was not islam but lunacy, but the Pope had no way of knowing whether and he had to protect the pilgrims.
please look this person up Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah.
i think it is very important for me to clarify what my intention of saying this was... the Pope authorized a war in the Holy Land because of the oppression Christians faced beginning a few decades earlier with the intolerable destruction of all Churches including the most holy Sepulchre... the purpose was to aid the eastern empire in retaking the Holy Land so that it could be safe for Christians again since clearly the Muslims could not be trusted to do this anymore...
if you read the speech at clermont he talks about the destruction of the temple and abuses of the Muslim leader, he also calls nobles to aid the east... but instead what happened, something the Pope did not ask for and could not control, was that there was a mass exodus of tens of thousands of barbarian frankish warlords, a complete flood of third world ignorance, into the east... they destroyed and sacked constantinople, the killed everybody in the Holy Land muslims jews and christians and set up for themselves their own kingdom (it was meant to be ruled directly by the Pope, and the eastern empire)... these are not things the Pope wanted, they are unjustifiable crimes and disobedience against the Holy Church...
but communication was very bad in these days, the Pope nor anyone in the Church did not know that this muslim ruler was a lunatic (his advisor created a religion around him called druze), they thought all muslims were doing this and that they had finally decided to kill off all the Christians. and the Pope was not able to control the barbarians in Europe, so he was even less able to control the barbarians when they went to the Holy Land.
these crusaders were disobedient and criminal, nothing justifies their crime, but in the Popes good judgement limited and merciful military intervention was absolutely justified to protect the Christians from the muslims who we had just learned had destroyed the Sepulchre and all the Churchs and were killing all the pilgrims...
i am not defending the Crusades, i am trying to explain what the Churchs true role in the Crusades were, and that the real crimes of the crusades are the result of evil warlords who were doing the same things in Europe beforehand, that did not listen to the Pope then, and did not listen to the Pope when they went to the Holy Land...
Dios te bendiga