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sevgi
01-22-2007, 10:22 AM
i have a question about alcdoholic substances...

ive heard that it is not allowed in islam to wear perfume and moisturisers and stuff which contain alcohol. ive gained knowledge that u need to wash the area which it has come into contact with.

i know that perfume isnt correct in large amounts coz it is attractive n stuff...im more worried about moisturisers, i cant find any without alcohol.ive stopped using it but all my frends use it and say "its ok...evryone does it...if it was haram, we wud know..." n stuff like that.

what do i do? is it ok to use things with alcohol in it?
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Umar001
01-22-2007, 10:28 AM
Originally Posted by sumeyye
i have a question about alcdoholic substances...

ive heard that it is not allowed in islam to wear perfume and moisturisers and stuff which contain alcohol. ive gained knowledge that u need to wash the area which it has come into contact with.

i know that perfume isnt correct in large amounts coz it is attractive n stuff...im more worried about moisturisers, i cant find any without alcohol.ive stopped using it but all my frends use it and say "its ok...evryone does it...if it was haram, we wud know..." n stuff like that.

what do i do? is it ok to use things with alcohol in it?
What you might want to try is to go to those health and beauty shops that are 'organic' as such, there are some in most shopping malls, if not then go to what might be known as a 'black hair shop' where you find alchol free products, and chemical free, which is mainly for the hair but you can find stuff for your face too, from what I have seen, I guess it depends where you live.
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sevgi
01-22-2007, 10:36 AM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
What you might want to try is to go to those health and beauty shops that are 'organic' as such, there are some in most shopping malls, if not then go to what might be known as a 'black hair shop' where you find alchol free products, and chemical free, which is mainly for the hair but you can find stuff for your face too, from what I have seen, I guess it depends where you live.
yeah...ive been to them...where i live we have "the body shop" but evrything has some form of alcahol...wat i rememver from chem class in yr11 is that there is lilke the alcohol compounds or watever with diff types of them...i think it depended on how many carbon atoms they had "ethanol, penthanol.." n all that science stuff that i have no clue about...maybe i should do some more research...

jazakallah khayr...:)
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Snowflake
01-22-2007, 10:38 AM
sis, I found this site for cosmetics.. well the good news is that their cosmetics contain no animal products.. the bad news is that it doesn't say anything about alcohol. But you can email them and ask them that anyway.

http://www.beautynaturally.com/


p.s. watch this space... I'm searching for more :D
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sevgi
01-22-2007, 10:41 AM
thank u sis:)
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Malaikah
01-22-2007, 10:41 AM
:sl:

Ok... now this is something to worry about... no moisturiser? :offended:

I did a google search on the moisturiser I use, Olay Complete UV Defence... and the ingredients do not say alcohol, they say things like:

Ingredients
Active Ingredients: Octinoxate 6% (6%), Zinc Oxide 3% (3%). Inactive Ingredients: Water, Isohexadecane, Glycerin, Polyacrylamide, C13-C14 Isoparaffin, Laureth 7, Cyclopentasiloxane, PEG/PEG-20/20 Dimethicone, Steareth-21, Stearyl Alcohol, Sucrose Polycottonseedate, Behenyl Alcohol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Cetyl Alcohol, DMDM Hydantoin, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Steareth-2, Disodium EDTA, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Oleth-3 Phosphate.

See where the alcohol is mentioned, that is not alcohol in the general sense of the word, i.e. the intoxicant, that is alcohol in the chemical sense of the word, i.e. any molecule that has the -OH group in it (-OH= and oxygen bonded to a hydrogen).

So in this case, these might be 'alcohols' but they are not intoxicants.

So use should be halal inshallah. :D
Reply

sevgi
01-22-2007, 10:44 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

Ok... now this is something to worry about... no moisturiser? :offended:

I did a google search on the moisturiser I use, Olay Complete UV Defence... and the ingredients do not say alcohol, they say things like:

Ingredients
Active Ingredients: Octinoxate 6% (6%), Zinc Oxide 3% (3%). Inactive Ingredients: Water, Isohexadecane, Glycerin, Polyacrylamide, C13-C14 Isoparaffin, Laureth 7, Cyclopentasiloxane, PEG/PEG-20/20 Dimethicone, Steareth-21, Stearyl Alcohol, Sucrose Polycottonseedate, Behenyl Alcohol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Cetyl Alcohol, DMDM Hydantoin, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Steareth-2, Disodium EDTA, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Oleth-3 Phosphate.

See where the alcohol is mentioned, that is not alcohol in the general sense of the word, i.e. the intoxicant, that is alcohol in the chemical sense of the word, i.e. any molecule that has the -OH group in it (-OH= and oxygen bonded to a hydrogen).

So in this case, these might be 'alcohols' but they are not intoxicants.

So use should be halal inshallah. :D
so these sort of alcohols are ok..like u can drink em if they werent toxic...?they are halal on their own?

do u know anyone i can ask?
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Snowflake
01-22-2007, 10:49 AM
even if ethyl alcohol is ok to use, it still dries the skin out.. I was wondering sis, have you tried good ol' olive oil? :D

oh forgot to mention... most cosmetics contain animal by-products, so that's another reason to check the ingredients.

another site..

http://www.dealtime.com/xDN-Personal...ithout_cruelty
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Malaikah
01-22-2007, 10:49 AM
:sl:

Sis alcohol is not haram. Intoxicants are haram. Ethanol, which is a type of alcohol happens to be an intoxicant and therefore it is haram. Ethanol is what goes into intoxicating drinks like beer and stuff.

Then you have methanol, which is also an alcohol. It does not intoxicate but it would probably kill you if you drank it!

Here is some more detail:

Question: Can you please tell me the types of alcohol that are unlawful in Islam? Obviously drinking alcohol is haram. What I would like to know is how far this goes. Alcohol, in terms of chemistry, is one word for many compounds. Are all types haram? For example in many sauces there are types of alcohol. In shampoos there are alcoholic compounds present. Even in your antifreeze for the car...etc. Where does Islamic Law draw the line. Is there evidence in the Sunnah of distinguishing between types of alcohol?

Answered by the Scientific Research Committee - IslamToday.net

In chemistry, alcohol is a general term that is applied to any organic compound in which a hydroxyl group (-OH) is bound to a carbon atom, which in turn is bound to other hydrogen and/or carbon atoms. In chemistry, the term does not refer to intoxicating beverages, like it does in colloquial speech. There are numerous chemicals that are referred to as alcohols in chemistry. There is no Islamic legislation against alcohols as a chemical group. Islamic Law prohibits intoxicants, not alcohols. There is no mention of the term “alcohol” in the sacred texts. The sacred texts refer to wine and to intoxicants.

The intoxicating substance in wine, beer and other liquors is known as ethanol. Ethanol is what is meant by the word “alcohol” in everyday speech. Ethanol is what is meant when someone says “alcoholic beverages are unlawful in Islam”.

Ethanol is the alcohol generally used in cooking and food preparation. The ruling on using foods that contain ethanol among their ingredients depends on how much ethyl alcohol remains in the food. Please refer to the following fatwâ in this archive for more details:

Fatwa Archive >> Dietary Law >> Alcohol, Intoxicants & Foods Containing Them >> Traces of alcohol in foods & beverages

There are other alcohols, especially fatty alcohols and sugar alcohols, which are used as food additives.

For instance, sodium lauryl sulfate is derived in a chemical process from another chemical known as lauryl alcohol (dodecanol). It is used mainly in soaps and detergents but can be found in some foods as an emulsifier. However, lauryl alcohol – which is sometimes used as a flavoring agent – is not the alcohol of intoxicating drinks. It is derived from coconut oil fatty acids.

Some sugar alcohols, like sorbitol and xylitol are used as sweeteners. A common sugar alcohol used as a food additive is glycerin.

We see no reason why any of these chemicals should be unlawful as food additives, unless they are derived from unlawful sources, like glycerin sometimes is.

And Allah knows best.

http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=30
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Snowflake
01-22-2007, 10:53 AM
wow where does glycerin come from sis?
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Malaikah
01-22-2007, 11:06 AM
no idea... :hiding:
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Snowflake
01-22-2007, 11:17 AM
^:giggling: no probs

p.s. I swear olive oil is the best moisturiser in the world :)
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Malaikah
01-22-2007, 11:21 AM
Really?!

But it looks all ugly and shiny and doesn't feel nice. :X
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Snowflake
01-22-2007, 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Really?!

But it looks all ugly and shiny and doesn't feel nice. :X
not if it's massaged in well and allowed to absorb into the skin... any excess can be wiped of with a tissue. I find it best to use while skin is damp. Give it a try. :X
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Muhammad
01-22-2007, 11:42 AM
:sl:

Also see:

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...es-creams.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/cyber-co...5-problem.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...r-perfume.html
Reply

Al_Imaan
01-22-2007, 11:43 AM
i read in another thread here that the amount of alcohol is unknown in the mixtures and using products with alcohol is halal, but if alcohol was used for drinking then obviously its haram.


^^ that's the thread im talkin about....
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...es-creams.html
Reply

netprince
01-22-2007, 12:11 PM
Yes it is permitted to use deodorants and creams containing alcohol, as it is invariably synthetic alcohol and not the khamr (wine) that is absolutely impermissible and filthy.

However, it is more religiously precautious not to, because of the difference of opinion about it.

This is the understanding i have based upon the hanifi position on the use of alcohol in cosmetic products including perfumes. So if you want to use it you can but its better if you can find an alternative.
Reply

Snowflake
01-22-2007, 09:25 PM
isn't there a hadith which states that even if a drop of alcohol falls ina bucket of water it becomes haraam? Or is that for drinking only? :?
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Woodrow
01-22-2007, 09:39 PM
Ethanol is the only acohol that is an intoxicant. Although the word alcohol comes from the Arabic Al Kahol which is specific for the product of fremetation. The English word Alcohol is a much more diverse product.

To answer an earlier question about glycerine and where it comes from. Glycerine is a fatty alcohol and is found in all fats animal or vegetable. If you eat meat or vegetables you are going to eat glycerine.

glycerol, glycerin, glycerine, or 1,2,3-propanetriol (prō'pāntrī'ŏl) , CH2OHCHOHCH2OH, colorless, odorless, sweet-tasting, syrupy liquid. Glycerol is a trihydric alcohol. It melts at 17.8°C, boils with decomposition at 290°C, and is miscible with water and ethanol. It is hygroscopic; i.e., it absorbs water from the air; this property makes it valuable as a moistener in cosmetics. Glycerol is present in the form of its esters (glycerides) in all animal and vegetable fats and oils. It is obtained commercially as a byproduct when fats and oils are hydrolyzed to yield fatty acids or their metal salts (soaps). Glycerol is also synthesized on a commercial scale from propylene (obtained by cracking petroleum), since supplies of natural glycerol are inadequate. Glycerol can also be obtained during the fermentation of sugars if sodium bisulfite is added with the yeast. Glycerol is widely used as a solvent; as a sweetener; in the manufacture of dynamite, cosmetics, liquid soaps, candy, liqueurs, inks, and lubricants; to keep fabrics pliable; as a component of antifreeze mixtures; as a source of nutrients for fermentation cultures in the production of antibiotics; and in medicine. It has many other uses as well.
Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/glycerol
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Snowflake
01-22-2007, 09:51 PM
JazakAllah khair, that explains it better.
Reply

Skillganon
01-22-2007, 09:55 PM
I will not go to out of of my way to ovoid products that have ethanol in it. IT is going to far when only one is not required to drink alcohol (intoxication). You can touch it but don't drink it. You can have perfume with bit of alcohol and it is perfectly fine, or product that has minute amount of alcohol because it is simply it exist as a byproduct or it is required in certain product.
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Snowflake
01-22-2007, 09:59 PM
well it makes sense and it feels good to know that these products are ok to use, as I'd completely stopped.. just in case. Yippeeee!!!!
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Woodrow
01-22-2007, 10:10 PM
skillganon is corrrect some form of alcohol is going to be found in every organic product. In fact if we really get too carried away some ethanol can be found in every vegetable product.

There is a big difference between what naturaly occurs in food products and what is exploited to be used as an intoxicant.
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Malaikah
01-23-2007, 12:15 AM
:sl:

I've personally stopped using perfume because all the ones I have contain alcohol... the bottles say alcohol on it, they don't say some kind of alcohol compound or anything... :?
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Woodrow
01-23-2007, 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

I've personally stopped using perfume because all the ones I have contain alcohol... the bottles say alcohol on it, they don't say some kind of alcohol compound or anything... :?
All perfumes do contain alcohol, I could be wrong but I believe only the French perfumes contain ethanol. Back before I reverted I would occasionaly bring perfumes back to the states for Christmas gifts etc. With the Perfumes I bought in France, I was required to pay the liquar tax on them.

Before you give up on perfumes you may want to see what alcohol is used. if it is not Ethanol, ethyl or grain Spirits; it is not the drinking intoxicating alcohol. If it just says alcohol and not a specific type it will be best to assume it is the haram ethenol
Reply

Skillganon
01-23-2007, 12:32 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

I've personally stopped using perfume because all the ones I have contain alcohol... the bottles say alcohol on it, they don't say some kind of alcohol compound or anything... :?
It does not matter.

Anyway here is some opinions on it:
1. Islam-qa Alcohol and Perfume search

2. Purity of alcohol

3.Alcohol-Based Perfumes

4.Using Products Containing Alcohol
Reply

lolwatever
01-23-2007, 05:58 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

I've personally stopped using perfume because all the ones I have contain alcohol... the bottles say alcohol on it, they don't say some kind of alcohol compound or anything... :?
:sl:
but the perfume isn't considered an intoxicant innit?
:w:
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Malaikah
01-23-2007, 08:35 AM
No idea...:?
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lolwatever
01-23-2007, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
No idea...:?
well like intoxicant.. as in.. if you put 50 bottles of perfume would you become drunk? if no.. then obviously its halal :D

i dont think it is intoxicant... allahu alam.

:w:
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Malaikah
01-23-2007, 11:35 AM
:sl:

^Don't know, haven't tried it yet... lol
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lolwatever
01-23-2007, 11:37 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

^Don't know, haven't tried it yet... lol
lol so.. allahu alam but it's not intoxicant.. if you consume alot of it (as in, something that people will regard as alot... e.g. 15 sprays.. ) and it doesn't intoxicate.. its halal.

with beer for example... we know its an intoxicant coz if one drinks enough of it.. they'll go potty. with perfume its not the case... from what ive tried atleast...

tc :w:
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Abu Ibraheem
01-23-2007, 11:46 AM
Salam

The Qur'aan (Allahs truth) outlines that khamr is strictly forbidden. What falls under khamr is anything that befogs the mind, including alcohol. There is a hadith in which Rasullah saaws states in so many words that the person who carries alcohol is not in a good posistion with Allah. For tahaarah purposes i would advice that these products containing alcohol not to be used, no matter much Muslims try to debate and confuse the issue. Its clear to me and i thank Allah for the many beautiful scents out there that are much cheaper than dogs juice like hugo boss, babys bum face for men etc.
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sevgi
01-24-2007, 10:53 AM
i think all ive become is alot more confused...

i dnt no what to do...

just becaus eits not intoxicating when u drink it duz it mean that it is clean and we can put it on our bodies n clothes?
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lolwatever
01-24-2007, 11:10 AM
Originally Posted by sumeyye
i think all ive become is alot more confused...

i dnt no what to do...

just becaus eits not intoxicating when u drink it duz it mean that it is clean and we can put it on our bodies n clothes?
some items are haram to produce, e.g. makign food using intoxicants (e.g. alchohol) because it involes purhcasing/using it etc.. even tho the final product might not be intoxicating.

When it comes to using already made products, it's different, it is considered as khamr only if it intoxicates.. i.e. if you consume alot of it and you get intoxicated, then even in small amounts is haram.

Its simple inshalah :)

:w:
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sevgi
01-24-2007, 11:15 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
some items are haram to produce, e.g. makign food using intoxicants (e.g. alchohol) because it involes purhcasing/using it etc.. even tho the final product might not be intoxicating.

When it comes to using already made products, it's different, it is considered as khamr only if it intoxicates.. i.e. if you consume alot of it and you get intoxicated, then even in small amounts is haram.

Its simple inshalah :)

:w:
so i can use perfumes and creams that have ethanol and all those other alcohols?
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sevgi
01-24-2007, 11:16 AM
yes or no **** it!:confused: :D
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lolwatever
01-24-2007, 11:17 AM
Originally Posted by sumeyye
so i can use perfumes and creams that have ethanol and all those other alcohols?
if they can be consumed in large amounts without intoxicating, then they're halal.

if they intoxicate in large or small amounts, its haram.

:shade:

:w:
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sevgi
01-24-2007, 11:22 AM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
if they can be consumed in large amounts without intoxicating, then they're halal.

if they intoxicate in large or small amounts, its haram.

:shade:

:w:
God bless u bro...what wud i do without ur attentiveness to this forum...Mashallah.

jazakallah khayr..
:happy:
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lolwatever
01-24-2007, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by sumeyye
God bless u bro...what wud i do without ur attentiveness to this forum...Mashallah.

jazakallah khayr..
:happy:
lol sis i wish i was a tenth of what u described..
wa iyakum.

tc :w:
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Snowflake
01-24-2007, 12:57 PM
Ya Allah! will some muslim enterpreneur set up an alcohol/animal free cosmetics company lol. It'd put us all out of our misery.
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Woodrow
01-24-2007, 06:51 PM
Just a thought. If we all had enough sense to accept ourselves and others as Allah(swt) created us, there would be no demand for cosmetics.



Perhaps there is a reason the path to find cosmetics is often blocked. Perhaps?
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lolwatever
01-24-2007, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Just a thought. If we all had enough sense to accept ourselves and others as Allah(swt) created us, there would be no demand for cosmetics.



Perhaps there is a reason the path to find cosmetics is often blocked. Perhaps?
but cosmetics, regardless of what they contain, aren't intoxicants are they? so i think its fine to use them (within their limits).

I think our biggest mistake is that Muslims defined khamr/intoxicant as "alchohol", the prob is they forgot to differentiate between the chemical and the beverage version of it... and they further more narrowed intoxicants down to only being in the form of alchohol.

Which creates alot of rigidity when it comes to understanding wats halal and whats not.

I guess its kinda english's fault they called beer alchohol instead of ethanol :thumbs_do

tc all the best :)
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-24-2007, 07:14 PM
Well then i guess i gotta get rid some of my perfume :X what if you put it on your clothes, not ur skin..is it still haraam? umm im not sure if that was answered already...so just tell me :D
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tomtomsmom
01-24-2007, 07:23 PM
Have you ever considered making your own purfume?
It is really very simple. get a glass jar and put some oil in it (whatever kind you are allowed to use) then put dried flowers and such inside the oil and set in a cool dry place for a few weeks. the more flowers you put in the stronger the smell. then just rub small amount on pressure points where you would normally put perfume. personally i like lavendar and mint. flowery yet fresh.
as far as lotions go-alot of the ones that are for sensitve skin have no parfumes or alchohol in them so you might want to try those
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lolwatever
01-24-2007, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by Tayyaba
Well then i guess i gotta get rid some of my perfume :X what if you put it on your clothes, not ur skin..is it still haraam? umm im not sure if that was answered already...so just tell me :D
its ok to use sis... coz it doesn't intoxicate you.

tc :w:
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-24-2007, 07:25 PM
ok lol...thanx :X

:sl:
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Woodrow
01-24-2007, 07:28 PM
I believe it is time for the scholars to determine exactly what the original Arabic word meant. The English translation ends up as it being just about everything. I suspect the English word alcohol goes far beyond the original meaning.
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Daffodil
01-24-2007, 07:35 PM
ok so basically whats the conclusion? i cant be bothered to read all those scientific terms, that sounds so bimboish dnt it lol.

i use a cream called simple, its got no alcohol or animal deritives, u can also use baby lotions because theyre made to be gentle enough for babies skin, but avoid johnson n johnson cuz theyre boycotted. but most shops like boots n superdrugs n wilkos do their own brands.
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Woodrow
01-24-2007, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by Daffodil
ok so basically whats the conclusion? i cant be bothered to read all those scientific terms, that sounds so bimboish dnt it lol.

i use a cream called simple, its got no alcohol or animal deritives, u can also use baby lotions because theyre made to be gentle enough for babies skin, but avoid johnson n johnson cuz theyre boycotted. but most shops like boots n superdrugs n wilkos do their own brands.
I think the best choice is to err on the side of halal if you have any doubt. Cosmetics are not a requirement. If you have any doubt about one not being halal don't use it.
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tomtomsmom
01-24-2007, 07:43 PM
sorry i am new here so this is a dumb question

why is johnson&johnson boycotted?
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-24-2007, 07:47 PM
After the publishing of the caracatures of the Prophet(saw), a lot of Muslims are boycotting as a protest.
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Woodrow
01-24-2007, 07:48 PM
Now I'm confused. How was Johnson & Johnson involved in that?
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Daffodil
01-24-2007, 07:49 PM
theyre boycotted because...

http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-joh...d-johnson.html
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Daffodil
01-24-2007, 07:50 PM
Cosmetics are not a requirement
they are wen u wanna tart up for ur husband
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lolwatever
01-24-2007, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I believe it is time for the scholars to determine exactly what the original Arabic word meant. The English translation ends up as it being just about everything. I suspect the English word alcohol goes far beyond the original meaning.
alchohol u mean? alchoholc ame from the word 'al-kuhl' which means 'eyeliner'...

but Allah used the term 'intoxicant'... not alchohol... so anything that prevents clarity of understanding/thoguht is an intoxicant, whether its alchohol or not.

people forget that hte 'alchohol' seen on perfume bottoles isn't necessarily an intoxicant... it's just a chemical name, not the intoxicant's name.

:w:
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Maarya
01-24-2007, 08:13 PM
:sl:
i didnt read through all the replys, but most 'Simple' products are 100% alcohol and perfume free, and most of the 'Soft and Gentle' deodrants are 100% alcohol free.
it says on the packaging and you can also read the ingredients to double check if you want to.
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