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jama
07-10-2005, 11:20 PM
Salam,
I was reading the qu'ran and came across them. Anybody know who are what they/it is?
Thank-you
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kadafi
07-10-2005, 11:45 PM
Question :
The Sabians are mentioned in several verses of the Qur’aan. Who were they? What was the religion they followed?.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.

This group of people are mentioned in three places in the Qur’aan. The first is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians [wa’l-saabi’een ], whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve”

[al-Baqarah 2:62]

The second is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, those who believe (in Allaah and in His Messenger Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and the Sabians [wa’l-saabi’een], and the Christians, and the Majoos, and those who worship others besides Allaah; truly, Allaah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection. Verily, Allaah is over all things a Witness”

[al-Hajj 22:17]

And the third is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Surely, those who believe (in the Oneness of Allaah, in His Messenger Muhammad and all that was revealed to him from Allaah), and those who are the Jews and the Sabians [wa’l-saabi’oon] and the Christians, — whosoever believed in Allaah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve”

[al-Maa’idah 5:69]

The word saabi’ (Sabian) is derived from the verb saba’a which refers to the action of leaving one religion and entering another.

Al-Tabari said: al-saabi’oon is the plural of saabi’, which means one who has changed his religion, such as an apostate from Islam who has left his religion, or anyone who leaves the religion that he used to follow and joined another. The Arabs called such a person saabi’… And it is said in Arabic saba’at al-nujoom meaning the stars appeared…

See Tafseer al-Tabari, 2/145; Lisaan al-‘Arab under the heading saba’a.

With regard to their beliefs, Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The people differed greatly concerning them, and the imams were unsure about them because they did not have enough knowledge of their beliefs and religion. Al-Shaafa’i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: They are a kind of Christian. And he said elsewhere: Their case is to be examined further; if they resemble the Christians in basic matters but they differ from them in some minor issues, then the jizyah is to be taken from them. But if they differ from them in basic issues of religion then their religion cannot be approved of by taking the jizyah from them.

With regard to the views of the salaf concerning them, Sufyaan narrated from Layth that Mujaahid said: They are a people who come between the Jews and the Magians and have no religion. In Tafseer Shaybaan it is narrated that Qataadah said: The Sabians are a people who worship the angels.

Ibn al-Qayyim said: I said: The Sabians are a large nation among whom are both blessed and doomed. They are one of the nations who are divided into believers and disbelievers, for the nations before the coming of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) were of two types, kaafir nations all of whose people were doomed and among whom were none who were blessed, such as the idol-worshippers and the Magians; and others who were divided into those who were blessed and those who were doomed, namely the Jews, Christians and Sabians. Allaah has mentioned the two types in His Book, where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians [wa’l-saabi’een ], whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve”

[al-Baqarah 2:62]

And He says something similar in al-Maa’idah. And in Soorat al-Hajj He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, those who believe (in Allaah and in His Messenger Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and the Sabians [wa’l-saabi’een], and the Christians, and the Majoos, and those who worship others besides Allaah; truly, Allaah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection. Verily, Allaah is over all things a Witness”

[al-Hajj 22:17]

He did not say here: those among them who believed in Allaah and the Last Day, because He mentioned alongside them the Magians and those who worship others besides Allaah. So He mentioned six nations, among whom are two who are doomed and four who are divided into the doomed and the blessed. When He promised the reward to those who believed and did righteous deeds, he mentioned four nations and no more. In the verse which speaks of the judgement between the nations He included these two nations with them, and in the verse which speaks of the promised reward He did not include them. Thus it is known that the Sabians included both believers and disbelievers, both doomed and blessed.

This is an ancient nation which existed before the Jews and Christians and they were of different types: Sabians who were haneefs (monotheists) and Sabians who were mushrikoon (polytheists). Their kingdom was in Haraan, before the time of the Messiah. They wrote books and had knowledge. There were many of them in Baghdad, including Ibraaheem ibn Hilaal al-Saabi’, the author of al-Rasaa’il. He followed their religion but he fasted Ramadaan with the Muslims. Most of them were philosophers and wrote famous essays which were mentioned by the scholars who wrote about philosophy and religion.

In brief, they did not reject the Prophets or regard it as obligatory to follow them. In their view, whoever followed (the Prophets) is blessed and saved, and whoever follows a path similar to that of the Prophets by virtue of his own reasoning is also blessed and saved, even if he did not follow the Prophets in specific terms. In their view the call of the Prophets was true but there was no one specific route to salvation. They believed that the universe had a Creator and Sustainer, Who is Wise and above any resemblance to created beings, but many of them, or most of them, said: we are unable to reach Him without intermediaries, so we have to approach Him through the mediation of spiritual and holy who are pure and free of any physical elements and who are above place and time, rather they are created pure and holy.

Then he mentioned that they used to worship these intermediaries and seek to draw close to them, and they said, “These are our gods and intercessors with the Lord of lords and God of gods.”

Then he said: This is some of what was narrated by the scholar who studied religion and philosophy about the religion of the Sabians, and is based on what had come down to them. But among this nation are some who believe in Allaah and His names and attributes, His angels and Messengers and the Last Day; and among them are disbelievers. There are some who took from the religion of the Messengers whatever suited their own reasoning and ideas of what is good, so they followed it and were content with it.

Basically, they took what they thought was good from other religions, and they did not take the people of one religion as friends and others as enemies; they did not favour one religion over another. In their view all religions served some purpose in this world, so there was no sense in their fighting one another, rather the good things in each were to be adopted so as to perfect the human condition. Hence they were called saabi’een because they refrained from following any one particular religion. Hence more than one of the salaf said: They are not Jews or Christians or Magians.

There are two types of Sabians: the monotheistic Sabians (saabi’ah hunafa’) and polytheistic Sabians (saabi’ah mushrikoon). The monotheists are the ones who are saved and there were debates among them, and one group refuted the view of the other. These are the people of Ibraaheem as the Jews were the people of Moosa, and the monotheists among them were his followers.

Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah, 1/92-98.

What he mentioned about the Sabians being divided into monotheists and polytheists was confirmed by Shaykh al-Islam in more than one place. See al-Radd ‘ala al-Mantiqiyyeen, 287-454; 290-458; Minhaaj al-Sunnah, 1/5. See also the discussion by Shaykh Ibn ‘Aashoor on this issue, in his commentary on the verse from al-Baqarah.
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jama
07-12-2005, 01:42 AM
salam,
thank-you it's much clearer now!!
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Preacher
07-12-2005, 07:48 PM
---
:sl:

JKK brother.

:w:
Preacher

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Genius
08-20-2005, 03:39 PM
Salam

Who are the Sabians? What is the Zaboor? Was the Prophet (pbuh) a Sabian before recieving the revelation?

Thanks for your help

wasalam.
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Muezzin
08-20-2005, 03:42 PM
Wiki is our friend

The Zaboor seems to be a 'book they read from'. Hmm.

format_quote Originally Posted by Wiki
The Sabians existed before Muhammad, who was said to have been Sabian and they are said to have read from a book called the Zaboor. Many Islamic writers from the period of about 650 AD onward gave further descriptions of who the Sabians were. They wrote that the Sabians were seen as baptists who had "long hair" and "white gowns". They had a monotheistic faith with religious literature and prophets. Under sharia, the Sabians form a protected religious group (along with Christians and Jews).

Many Islamic writers from the period of about 650 AD onward provide a meager description of the Sabians. The Sabians had a monotheistic faith with religious literature and prophets. Their theology resembled that of Judaism and Christianity yet were neither nor were they Magians. They lived in Iraq around Sawad, Kutha and Mosul and they "wash themselves with water".
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Genius
08-20-2005, 04:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Wiki is our friend

The Zaboor seems to be a 'book they read from'. Hmm.
My question arose after reading the above article on wikipedia, i wanted islamic answers.
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Muezzin
08-20-2005, 04:04 PM
Oh, the irony. :p

Someone will be along soon enough, inshallah.
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Uthman
08-20-2005, 05:07 PM
:sl:

Zaboor = The Psalms. :)

Btw, I've not seen you around much lately Genius!

:w:

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Ummu Amatullah
08-20-2005, 05:23 PM
Sabians

Sabian is a term that has been more or less inaccurately used to describe at least three religious groups (see Mandaeanism, Harranians or Sabeans, and Sabaeans). The term derives from the Arabic term "Sabi" (plural Sabiyah) meaning proselyte (i.e., one who has converted through Baptism but also reminiscent of a word meaning light) which was an appellation for a now obscure Arabic religious group. They are first mentioned in the Qur'an and later appear again in the writings of the Bahá'í Faith. Despite their clear documentation in traditions stemming from Islam, they have become yet another thing for western scholars to delight in puzzling and speculating over for decades resulting in various theories and information that has a way of producing some very heated arguments.

Sabian is one of three similar sounding words that refer to a religion or cultural group. These three words have been used interchangeably and one mistaken for the another in many literary references for centuries. The spelling "Sabian" usually refers to one of "people of the book" as mentioned in the Qur'an and it is also used by the Mandaeans as an appellation imposed by local Muslims. The second word is "Sabaean", which is a variation of the Sabian spelling. This word is also is used for the "people of the book" and this word is used to refer to the Harranians. The third word is "Sabeans", which are the people of ancient Saba in Yemen and have been thrown out by scholars on having any connection to the Sabians of the Qur'an.

The word Sabium comes from Subi or Sabi (plural Subba or Sabba), a colloquial word of Syriac or Mandaic origins and means to "immerse" or "plunge in". It may also be related to the Greek sebomenoi, a term for non-converted (and decidedly non-circumcised) Jewish adherents.

The followers of the Zaboor are called the "Mandaeans".In Arabic they're called "Subba" and they exist mostly in Iraq.
They are mentioned in the Quran so is their prophet Dawood (David).No,I don't think Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was a Mandae.
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Ummu Amatullah
08-20-2005, 05:24 PM
Wiki really does come in handy.
Reply

Uthman
08-20-2005, 05:29 PM
:sl: Shukri,

format_quote Originally Posted by Genius
My question arose after reading the above article on wikipedia, i wanted islamic answers.
He's already read it!

:w:

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Ummu Amatullah
08-20-2005, 05:33 PM
Oh,well*shrug*lil bro. :zip:
Reply

Muezzin
08-20-2005, 05:40 PM
Mods of the forum, lend us your ears!

Ansar, Far7an, Muhammad where are you?

;) :)
Reply

Uthman
08-20-2005, 05:42 PM
:sl:

Zaboor refers to The Psalms by the way. :) Just in case you missed it amidst the big posts!

:w:

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Muezzin
08-20-2005, 05:43 PM
The Psalms as in those things at the end of the Bible?
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sonz
08-20-2005, 05:44 PM
salam

i once read it in uther topic

here is the link

What is a sabian?in the qu'ran
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Uthman
08-20-2005, 05:50 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
The Psalms as in those things at the end of the Bible?
Yeah, David's Psalms. :) As I understand it, Psalms were amongst the previous revelations that became corupted. Just like Injeel refers to the Gospels which were also corrupted.

There was a thread about the Psalms here.

And JazakAllah Khayr for the link Sonz. :)

:w:

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Ummu Amatullah
08-23-2005, 10:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Osman
:sl:

Yeah, David's Psalms. :) As I understand it, Psalms were amongst the previous revelations that became corupted. Just like Injeel refers to the Gospels which were also corrupted.
Asallama Alaikum yes,that's true.
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Muhammad
08-23-2005, 10:23 PM
:sl:

I have merged the two threads and the post by brother Kadafi should help clear up the matter Insha'Allaah. One thing that I was wondering was what the difference was between the Gospel and the Bible...

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
08-24-2005, 04:25 AM
:sl:
The Bible, the Holy Book of the Christians, consists of the following parts:

1)The Old Testament
As for the Old Testament, then this is the Holy Book of the Jews as well as the Christians, which they refer to as the Tanakh.
The Tanakh/Old Testament consists of the following parts:

a)Torah (aka the The Pentateuch).
b)Nev'im (aka The Prophets)
c)Kethuvim (The Writings):

2) The New testament
The New Testament is the second part of the Bible, but it is only accepted by Christians and rejected by the Jews. It consists of the following:
a) The four gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John)
b) The letters of "St." Paul (Pauline Epistles)
c) The other letters (Non-Pauline Epistles)

To read excellent comparative religion articles, please visit the following website:
http://voiceforislam.com/

I highly recommend the two books the author has written - In defense of Islam, and The Gospel of Jesus.

As for the Injeel, Tawrat and Zabur referred to in the Qur'an, then the Tawrat was the written laws delivered to Prophet Musa (as). The Injeel was the revelation given to Prophet 'Isa (as) [Read the book Gospel of Jesus for much more info on this one]. And the Zabur was whatever was given to Prophet Dawud (as), consisting of many recitals praising Allah.

I hope this helps, and indeed Allah swt knows best.
:w:
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Muhammad
09-06-2005, 07:54 PM
:sl:

Jazakallahu Khayr for that (I forgot about this thread!) - and Alhamdulillah that clarifies a lot. One further question: is the Torah in the Old Testament believed to be (by Jews mainly) the same as the Torah which was revealed to Musa and that which is mentioned in the Qur'an?

Im just checking out the site now and Masha'Allaah it looks good!

:w:

P.S. Regarding the book: The Gospel of Jesus, is it an attempt to clarify the true version of what happened in the time of Prophet Isa (as), by correcting biblical texts and using Qur'anic narrations?
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
09-06-2005, 08:40 PM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad
Jazakallahu Khayr for that (I forgot about this thread!) - and Alhamdulillah that clarifies a lot. One further question: is the Torah in the Old Testament believed to be (by Jews mainly) the same as the Torah which was revealed to Musa and that which is mentioned in the Qur'an?
To the best of my knowledge, that's correct.

P.S. Regarding the book: The Gospel of Jesus, is it an attempt to clarify the true version of what happened in the time of Prophet Isa (as), by correcting biblical texts and using Qur'anic narrations?
What he does is he re-examines the New Testament using the Qur'an as a criterion and looking at all the various writings he puts together all that [he believes to be] authentic from the New Testament and includes the Qur'anic verses, thus creating the best representation of what the Gospel of Jesus was probably like.

:w:
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Muhammad
09-06-2005, 11:06 PM
:sl: Jazakallah Khayr for the clarification! I have another question after reading some of the introduction, which is regarding the following:

You can think of these gospels (notice the small “g”) as being four theologically motivated interpretations of the one true Gospel, which so far has not shown up on earth in writing.The Gospel of Jesus was a spoken message that God sent to the Children of Israel as light and guidance.
So the Injeel was not in the form of any writing then?

:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
09-07-2005, 02:05 AM
:sl:
That's the way it seems based on historical/biblical evidence. The Qur'an doesn't say anything to prove contrary and it would contradict anything to assume that it was an oral revelatation as the Qur'an was.
:w:
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IceQueen~
05-05-2006, 11:44 AM
the 'injeel' refers to book given to prophet jesus(P)
the torah is the one given to moses and the zabur is the one given to david (peace be upon them all)
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DanEdge
12-08-2015, 07:59 AM
Greetings,

Interesting thread. I started re-reading the Koran and looked up the first term I did not recognize: Sabians. Apparently an ancient religious sect that early Islamic writers saw as adherents of The Book.

--Dan edge
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Abz2000
12-08-2015, 09:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Mods of the forum, lend us your ears!

Ansar, Far7an, Muhammad where are you?

;) :)
Brother Farhan, you were 9 years old?
Reply

M.I.A.
12-08-2015, 09:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by kadafi
The second is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, those who believe (in Allaah and in His Messenger Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and the Sabians [wa’l-saabi’een], and the Christians, and the Majoos, and those who worship others besides Allaah; truly, Allaah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection. Verily, Allaah is over all things a Witness”

[al-Hajj 22:17]
Who are the majoos? i googled it and they seemed polytheistic.. (magians)

maybe the punctuation in the above seemed off.

another translation:

Malik : Surely as for those who are true believers (the Muslims), the Jews, the Sabians, the Christians, the Magians and the ones who commit shirk (polytheists) - Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection; for Allah is a witness over everything.

Asad : Verily, as for those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], and those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Sabians, 18 and the Christians, and the Magians, 19 [on the one hand,] and those who are bent on ascribing divinity to aught but God, [on the other,] 20 verily, God will decide between them on Resurrection Day: for. behold. God is witness unto everything.


Yusuf Ali : Those who believe (in the Qur'an) those who follow the Jewish (scriptures) and the Sabians Christians Magians and Polytheists Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things. 2788 2789


format_quote Originally Posted by kadafi
“Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians [wa’l-saabi’een ], whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve”

[al-Baqarah 2:62]

..no mention of either in the above quoted.


my logic sound or does it not work that way "IRL"
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Abz2000
12-08-2015, 10:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Greetings,

Interesting thread. I started re-reading the Koran and looked up the first term I did not recognize: Sabians. Apparently an ancient religious sect that early Islamic writers saw as adherents of The Book.

--Dan edge
Dunno why the scholars threw out the possibility of the yemeni sabeans and adopted an imaginary tribe.
The only ones who appear to be mentioned in the Quran and hadith who fit anywhere near the description are the Sabeans of Yemen who used to worship the sun and were bought back to monotheism at the hands of Sulaiman (pbuh), they also fit with the term "convert" since those considered non-jews by race who yet followed the scriptures would have retained the distinction of "convert" throughout their lives.
Those sabeans appear to have separated from Jewish rites and developed their own form of haneefism as time went by.
They may have also received prophets since they had another phase variation in the region called "Rahmanism" and the three Messengers mentioned in Surah Yaseen who's people were destroyed for their hypocrisy and kufr appear to be descendants of a monotheistic people who worshipped Ar-Rahmaan.

Here's some more reseaech material:

Banu Qahtan (Arabic:*بنو قحطان‎) Qahtanite, Children of Eber

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qahtanite
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheba
http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ml#post2857441
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahmanism
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Naveedqureshi
12-08-2015, 12:50 PM
Very informative
Reply

farhan
12-08-2015, 01:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Brother Farhan, you were 9 years old?
[emoji23][emoji23]

No brother that's a different Farhan. You cant have a 9 year old kid mod running around lol. I became Admin around 2014 ^.^.
Reply

Abz2000
12-08-2015, 01:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by فرحان
[emoji23][emoji23]

No brother that's a different Farhan. You cant have a 9 year old kid mod running around lol. I became Admin around 2014 ^.^.
But you told us there's Only One Farhan.
And Beardo existed in 2011 and a 19 year old in 2015 would have been 15 in 2011 and would therefore have still been climbing into puberty.
Please clarify how the only one farhan transformed from beardo to a 19 year old admin and big boss.
poor Abz is scratching his head.
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
12-12-2015, 11:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
Who are the majoos?
Followers of the Majoosi Religion which believed that there two gods one for good and one for bad [1]
Reply

DanEdge
12-13-2015, 06:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
Followers of the Majoosi Religion which believed that there two gods one for good and one for bad [1]
Greetings,

Majoosi may be analogue to Marcionism, an early Gnostic Christian group who believed in dual gods: the harsh god of the Old Testament, and the forgiving god of the New. Marcion of Sinope argued that the god of Torah could not be the same god that sent Jesus.

--Dan Edge
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