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Bittersteel
07-11-2005, 12:10 PM
When did the Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) split the moon?Please tell me everything about it.has it been proven that the Prophet have really split the moon?

http://www.islamcan.com/cgi-bin/incr...39613112.shtml

Qouting from the article:

Dr. Najjar continued that at this point a British Muslim young man introduced himself as Daoud Moussa Peetcock head of the British Islamic Party. He carried on saying sir if you allow me I would like to add on this issue? I said please do. He explained saying: At the time when I was searching in religions (before he embraced Islam), a Muslim student gave me as a present the translation of the meaning of Quran. I thanked him and took it home. The first Surat I came across when I opened the book, it was Chapter of the Moon I read "has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder". I said to myself, is this statement logical? Is it possible for the moon to split and then reattach what kind of power may cause this? The man explained that this verse made me reluctant to continue reading. I became busy with my life,yet ALLAH of course Knows how sincere I was about finding the truth.

So,one day ALLAH made me sit to watch TV. It was a talk show between a British commentator and three American astronautics specialists. The show host was blaming the scientists for spending thriftily over space trips at a time when earth is suffering hunger,poverty, diseases and backwardness. He was telling them, it would have been more feasible to allocate this kind of money for reconstruction of earth. To this argument, the three men answered defending their position that such technology is widely applied in many wakes of life such as medicine, industry and agriculture. They added that the money is never wasted but it rather supported the development of highly advanced technology.

During their dialogue, they mentioned the trip in which a man landed on the moon surface as it consumes the the largest cost which comes to more than US $100.000.000.000. The British TV anchor screamed saying what kind of thrift is this? A hundred thousand million dollars just to plant the American flag on the moon surface? They answered no; the objective was not to plant the American flag but rather to study the interior composition of the moon. We actually came to a finding that would cost us double folds of this amount for people to believe and yet they will never believe. The show host inquired what is this fact? They replied: One day this moon was split and then reattached. The show host again probed: how did you realize that? The scientists responded about finding a belt of transformed rocks cutting the moon from its surface to core and then to the surface again. The stated saying: we consulted with earth scientists and geologists who explained that such phenomenon would never occur unless this moon one day split and then reattached.

The British Muslim man said: I jumped out of my chair saying ALLAH (SWT) forced the Americans to spend more than a hundred billion dollars to prove to Muslims a a miracle that took place 1400 years ago for Mohamed (PBUH)? This religion must be the truth. He added: I went back to the Quran and recited Surat Al Qamar, which was my gate for accepting Islam.


Is there a thread on this already?
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Bittersteel
07-11-2005, 03:56 PM
that was said by Daoud Moussa Peetcock.
Reply

zahra
07-12-2005, 01:50 PM
Allahu-akbar.
Reply

Bittersteel
07-12-2005, 02:09 PM
I heard a weird story that Armstrong converted to Islam.
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root
07-12-2005, 02:23 PM
FOLLOWING REPEAT SENT ACTION ALL EAST ASIAN AND
PACIFIC DIPLOMATIC POSTS DTD MAR 02.

QUOTE: UNCLAS STATE 056309
E.O. 12356: N/A
TAGS: PREL, PGOV, US, ID
SUBJECT: ALLEGED CONVERSION OF NEIL ARMSTRONG TO ISLAM
---------------------------------------------

REF: JAKARTA 3281 AND 2374 (NOT ..)

1. FORMER ASTRONAUT NEIL ARMSTRONG, NOW IN PRIVATE
BUSINESS, HAS BEEN THE SUBJECT OF PRESS REPORTS IN
EGYPT, MALAYSIA AND INDONESIA (AND PERHAPS ELSEWHERE)
ALLEGING HIS CONVERSION TO ISLAM DURING HIS LANDING ON
THE MOON IN 1969. AS A RESULT OF SUCH REPORTS,
ARMSTRONG HAS RECEIVED COMMUNICATIONS FROM INDIVIDUALS
AND RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS, AND A FEELER FROM AT LEAST
ONE GOVERNMENT, ABOUT HIS POSSIBLE PARTICIPATION IN
ISLAMIC ACTIVITIES.

2. WHILE STRESSING HIS STRONG DESIRE NOT TO OFFEND
ANYONE OR SHOW DISRESPECT FOR ANY RELIGION, ARMSTRONG
HAS ADVISED DEPARTMENT THAT REPORTS OF HIS CONVERSION
TO ISLAM ARE INACCURATE.

3. IF POST RECEIVE QUERIES ON THIS MATTER, ARMSTRONG
REQUESTS THAT THEY POLITELY BUT FIRMLY INFORM QUERYING
PARTY THAT HE HAS NOT CONVERTED TO ISLAM AND HAS NO
CURRENT PLANS OR DESIRE TO TRAVEL OVERSEAS TO
PARTICIPATE IN ISLAMIC RELIGOUS ACTIVITIES.
Their is no evidence to suggest the moon ever split into two.
Reply

zahra
07-12-2005, 02:25 PM
The evidence is in the Holy Qur'aan.
Reply

Preacher
07-12-2005, 04:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by root
Their is no evidence to suggest the moon ever split into two.
Peace be upon those who follow the true guidance

Funny it is coming from a person with a background who cannot tell with certainty that (1) what was the mother tongue of Jesus? (2) What was the language of the Torah/OT? But ironically he can deny something from Islam and Qur'an.

Well root, where is the proof that suggest or support your claim?

Here is somethings that may augment your knowledge on this subject matter:

Bible Foretold Muhammad’s Miracle!

Al-Isra (The night journey) with proof from Christian sources.

THE SPLITTING OF THE MOON WAS ONE OF THE MIRACLE PERFORMED BY PROPHET MUHAMMAD صلى الله عليه وسلم & A PROPHECY OF THE BIBLE!

Nw let us see how you can prove the above wrong? Or will you issue a statement of denial as usual?

Regards
Preacher
Reply

Muezzin
07-12-2005, 04:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by root
Their is no evidence to suggest the moon ever split into two.
There is no evidence to suggest I dreamt of pancakes last night, but it still happened.
Reply

A7med
07-12-2005, 04:32 PM
SUBHANALLAH!!! :)
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz
I heard a weird story that Armstrong converted to Islam.
people said wen he wen on the moon he heard the adhaan.....so he converted.....but this aint true :zip:
Reply

Muezzin
07-12-2005, 04:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by brown clown
SUBHANALLAH!!! :)


people said wen he wen on the moon he heard the adhaan.....so he converted.....but this aint true :zip:
What if you did hear the Adhaan on the Moon? Which way would you face to pray? Just... towards Earth?
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A7med
07-12-2005, 04:38 PM
yea i would supose :confused: cos ur facing the kaba'a
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Preacher
07-12-2005, 04:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by brown clown
SUBHANALLAH!!! :)


people said wen he wen on the moon he heard the adhaan.....so he converted.....but this aint true :zip:
:sl:
Please be advised that these are all hoaxes and others like,

Will Smith converted to Islam

Bill Gates converted to Islam

and many more like these. Niel Armstrong never converted to Islam. I personally know the group of few individuals that with corroboration of Christians missionary websites starts and spread these hoaxes and irony of this perjury and hoaxes is that everytime Muslims fell for it.


What is the big deal if some one converted or converts to Islam, by the way? Why it has to be astonishing to us, Muslims, like it was not supposed to happen, but it did some how? Just wondering!



:w:
Preacher
Reply

A7med
07-12-2005, 04:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Preacher
:sl:
Please be advised that these are all hoaxes and others like,

Will Smith converted to Islam

Bill Gates converted to Islam


and many more like these. Niel Armstrong never converted to Islam. I personally know the group of few individuals that with corroboration of Christians missionary websites starts and spread these hoaxes and irony of this perjury and hoaxes is that everytime Muslims fell for it.


What is the big deal if some one converted or converts to Islam, by the way? Why it has to be astonishing to us, Muslims, like it was not supposed to happen, but it did some how? Just wondering!



:w:
Preacher
:omg:
Reply

Muezzin
07-12-2005, 04:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Preacher
Bill Gates converted to Islam
A pity he didn't. He'd have donated a crapload of zakat ;)

and many more like these. Niel Armstrong never converted to Islam. I personally know the group of few individuals that with corroboration of Christians missionary websites starts and spread these hoaxes and irony of this perjury and hoaxes is that everytime Muslims fell for it.
I actually find it kind of funny. But then, I don't usually fall for stuff like this. When I do, I laugh at what an idiot I had been.

What is the big deal if some one converted or converts to Islam, by the way? Why it has to be astonishing to us, Muslims, like it was not supposed to happen, but it did some how? Just wondering!
Beats me.
Reply

Preacher
07-12-2005, 04:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
What if you did hear the Adhaan on the Moon? Which way would you face to pray? Just... towards Earth?
:sl:

With due respect this assertion is fallacious accroding to the Islamic Shariah. Please read the following:

Fasting and Salaat on other Planets!

Why is fasting not observed in Ramadaan at the north & south poles?

I hope insha Allah, this will clears things up.

:w:
Preacher
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Muezzin
07-12-2005, 04:51 PM
Jazakallah, brother Preacher

I appreciate the reading material, but I was actually joking. ;)
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Preacher
07-12-2005, 04:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by brown clown
They converted :omg: sorry :-[ i didnt know :omg:
Please read my original post very carefully since I did not say that Will Smith and Bill Gates converted to Islam. I was very clear when I stated that these are all hoaxes.

Again, these are all hoxes, so please don't distort and twist my words. Perhaps, this may be a game or sarcasm for you. But to me you have just lost your credibility before you even establish it.

Regards
Preacher
Reply

Muezzin
07-12-2005, 04:56 PM
Preacher, your words were indeed very clear. It appeared to me that Brown Clown was joking.

Chill out a bit, bro. No need to take everything seriously, since people often make humorous remarks not meant to be taken seriously. :brother:
Reply

A7med
07-12-2005, 04:56 PM
SORRY i know i just edited it :-[

Ohhh and JAZAKALLAH KHAIR FOR THAT INFORMATION :)
Reply

Preacher
07-12-2005, 05:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Jazakallah, brother Preacher

I appreciate the reading material, but I was actually joking. ;)
:sl:

Well, we will never know who will take this joke as fact or statement of truth, be s/he a Muslimor non-Muslim; after all this is a religious issue.

There is a majority of Muslim who cannot answer this question, needless to say that Christian missionaries often advance this question to corner Muslims (out of their ignorance). I have seen them (Muslims) doing gaga-caca. For such Muslims this kind of joke may be a light at the end of the tunnel. But we both know how absurd it can be, once this word got around.

:w:
Preacher
Reply

A7med
07-12-2005, 05:04 PM
i think this is goin a bit :offtopic: :-[
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Preacher
07-12-2005, 05:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Preacher, your words were indeed very clear. It appeared to me that Brown Clown was joking.

Chill out a bit, bro. No need to take everything seriously, since people often make humorous remarks not meant to be taken seriously. :brother:
:sl:

Folks, I don't joke around like this about my Deen and I don't appreciate that either. This is my religious obligation to defuse all this like this including worst than this.

After all this is a religious Muslim forum. Please think of those silent readers/visitors that, how would they know we are joking of telling a fact about Islam? It is just a brotherly suggestion that we must refrian from such acts, otherwise we will be guilty of misguiding people or perhaps sending people astray.

:w:
Preacher
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mary
07-12-2005, 05:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz
I heard a weird story that Armstrong converted to Islam.
i have heard this too! i also heard this very random story how somebody has purchased armstrongs hair and trying to sell it to make money. The last i heard he wanted the money to be donated to a childrens charity. strange story but quite true apparently.
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Bittersteel
07-12-2005, 05:19 PM
thanks everyone.
Reply

root
07-12-2005, 06:17 PM
Well root, where is the proof that suggest or support your claim?

Here is somethings that may augment your knowledge on this subject matter:

Bible Foretold Muhammad’s Miracle!

Al-Isra (The night journey) with proof from Christian sources.

THE SPLITTING OF THE MOON WAS ONE OF THE MIRACLE PERFORMED BY PROPHET MUHAMMAD صلى الله عليه وسلم & A PROPHECY OF THE BIBLE!
I don't need any proof to support my claim that the moon has never split in half then came together again. The science of the moon is well known, and the Quran & the Bible are not "Scientific Books" as any Muslim will tell you.

Since this thread is under "Basics of Islam". Then I can't see the point in taking this any further, I am more than happy for anyone to beleive anything they wish
Reply

A7med
07-12-2005, 06:23 PM
:sl:

The miracle of the splitting of the moon was demonstrated before a certain gathering who persisted in denial of Muhammad’s Prophethood. As was related by ‘Adbullah ibn Mas‘ud, while they were in Mina’ one night, the Prophet split the moon into two by a gesture of his index finger. The halves of the moon appeared one behind the mountain and the other in front of it. Then, the Prophet turned to us and said: ‘Be witnesses!’1 The Qur’an refers to this miracle in the following verses:
Reply

root
07-12-2005, 06:58 PM
The halves of the moon appeared one behind the mountain and the other in front of it. Then, the Prophet turned to us and said: ‘Be witnesses!’
Ah, that explains it.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
07-12-2005, 07:02 PM
:sl:

Like this:



:w:
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
07-12-2005, 07:06 PM
Did the moon really split by a gesture of prophet Muhammad's index finger?

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate

The Hour has approached, and the moon split. But whenever they see a sign, they turn away and say, ‘This is evident magic.’

The miracle of the splitting of the moon was demonstrated before a certain gathering who persisted in denial of Muhammad’s Prophethood. As was related by ‘Adbullah ibn Mas‘ud, while they were in Mina’ one night, the Prophet split the moon into two by a gesture of his index finger. The halves of the moon appeared one behind the mountain and the other in front of it. Then, the Prophet turned to us and said: ‘Be witnesses!’1 The Qur’an refers to this miracle in the following verses:

The Hour has approached, and the moon split. But whenever they see a sign, they turn away and say, ‘This is evident magic’. (al-Qamar, 54.1-2)

Question

Materialist philosophers and their unreasoning imitators, who want to cast a shadow with their vicious delusions over such a bright miracle of the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, as the splitting of the moon, say: ‘If the splitting of the moon had taken place, it would have been known to the whole world and related in all subsequent books of human history’.

Answer

The splitting of the moon was demonstrated before a certain gathering who contradicted the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, in his cause as an evidence of his Prophethood. It happened momentarily at a time of night when people were all asleep. Also, there were obstacles which prevented the others from seeing it, such as mist, clouds and time-differences between different parts of the world. Besides, at that time science and civilization were not yet well advanced and not widespread, and, therefore, the observation of the sky was very limited. Last but not least, there was nothing to necessitate that it should have been seen all over the world. It is because of these reasons that the splitting of the moon was not witnessed in the whole world and related in the history books of other nations.

In order to remove such clouds of delusions concerning the miracle of the splitting of the moon, heed the following Five Points:

First point

The extreme stubbornness of the unbelievers in the Hijaz at that time is well-known and is recorded in history. When the Qur’an, however, announced this incident to the whole world through its verse, The moon split, not any of those unbelievers, who denied the Qur’an, dared to contradict it in this announcement. If this incident had not occurred before their eyes, they would certainly have taken this verse as a pretext to attack the Prophet more formidably in his cause. However, neither the biographies of the Prophet, nor the books of history report anything to suggest that they denied the occurrence of this incident. What was reported concerning their reaction is as the verse records: They say, ‘This is evident magic’. The unbelievers declared the event to be magic, and they added further that if the caravans in other places had seen it, it truly happened, otherwise the Prophet bewitched them. When, however, the caravans coming the following morning from the Yemen and other places announced that they had witnessed the event, the unbelievers showed their usual reaction, saying,–God forbid!–‘The magic of Abu Talib’s orphan has affected even the heavens!’

Second point

The majority of the foremost scholars of meticulous research such as Sa’d al-Din al-Taftazani concluded that like the flowing of water from the fingers of the Prophet, upon him be peace, and his satisfying the thirst of a whole army with that water, and the grieving of the dry wooden pole–against which the Prophet used to lean while delivering sermons–because of its separation from him, and its being heard by a whole congregation, the splitting of the moon, too, is mutawatir, that is, it has been transmitted by one truthful group at each period to another, forming such a vast community that their agreement on a lie is inconceivable. It is as certain as a famous comet–named Haley–having appeared a thousand years ago, or as the existence of an island which we have not seen but exists. Therefore, it is unreasonable to foster baseless doubts about such certain, witnessed matters. In fact, it is sufficient for their acceptability that they are not impossible. As for the splitting of the moon, it is quite as possible as a mountain’s being split by a volcanic eruption.

Third point

Prophets work miracles to prove their claim of Prophethood and to convince deniers, not to compel belief. Therefore, every miracle had to be, and was, manifested to convince those who heard the claim of Prophethood. So, if they had been demonstrated in a way that could be seen by the whole world or would compel everyone to believe, this would have been contrary both to the wisdom of the All-Wise and the Divine purpose for creating man with free will, and sending religion, which entails that the ground be prepared for the mind’s acceptance without the power of choice being annulled. If, then, the All-Wise Creator had, because materialist philosophers fancy it so, left the moon split for one or two hours in order that it would be seen by the whole world and recorded in all books of human history, then it would have been no more than other astronomical events, without having been special to the Messengership of Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, and an evidence of his Prophethood. Or, it would have been such an obvious miracle that everyone would have felt compelled to believe for there would have been left for the will no way but to accept belief in him. This, in turn, would have resulted in that someone with a coal-like spirit like Abu Jahl would have remained at the same level as someone with a diamond-like spirit like Abu Bakr the Truthful, which means that the purpose of the creation of man with a special function and responsibility and the purpose of sending revelation would have been negated. That is why the miracle of the splitting of the moon was not shown to the whole world to be recorded in all books of human history.

Fourth point

Some unreasoning opponents argue that if that incident had taken place, in would have been mentioned in the histories of such nations as the Chinese, the Japanese and Americans. How could they have witnessed it, given that, when this event happened, in addition to other obstacles, it was barely sunset in such European countries as Spain, France and England, which were then enveloped in mists of ignorance, daytime in America and morning in China and Japan. A thousand curses on such toadies and sycophants of Europe!

(In some books there is an additional record that the moon fell to earth after it split into two parts. This was rejected by veracious scholars on account of its being added by a hypocrite who intended to reduce to nothing the value of this evident miracle.)

Fifth point

The splitting of the moon is not an ordinary incident which happened either due to particular causes or randoming so that it should be criticized from the viewpoint of the law of cause and effect. Rather, the All-Wise Creator of the sun and the moon made it happen as an extraordinary event in order to confirm the Prophethood of His Messenger and to support him in his claim. Therefore, it was shown as a convincing proof to certain people specified by Divine Wisdom because, as stated above, the nature of Divine guidance and human responsibility, and the purpose for raising a Messenger required it to be so. If it had not been concealed from the eyes of those who were not intended to see it and who had not yet heard the Prophethood of Muhammad due to some obstacles such as fog, clouds and time-differences, and if had occurred according to the law of cause and effect, then it would have been an ordinary astrological event, not a miracle peculiar to and connected with the Messengership of Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings.

In conclusion, these arguments must be enough for any mind to be convinced of the possibility that the splitting of the moon occurred; now out of many evidences of its occurrence, we shall mention only six which have the strength of a six-fold consensus:

The Companions of the Prophet, who were all men of justice and truthfulness, concurred upon its occurrence.

All of the exacting interpreters of the Qur’an have agreed that the verse, The moon split indicates to the splitting of the moon with a gesture of Muhammad’s fingers, upon him be peace and blessings.

All the truthful Traditionists narrated this incident through various authentic channels of transmission.

All the men of truth and sainthood, men of inspiration and spiritual discovery have borne testimony to the occurrence of this incident.

All the foremost theologians whose way differ greatly from each other and all the learned scholars have nevertheless agreed in their confirmation of this event.

The Community of Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, who, as established by an authentic Prophetic tradition, never agree on an error, have accepted on its occurrence.

These six evidences are as clear as the sun to prove the splitting of the moon.

Conclusion: What we have put forward hitherto on this matter has been to establish the splitting of the moon by way of refuting the objections to the possibility of it. In a few concluding sentences we will now speak in the name of the truth and for the sake of belief. Now it is the turn of the truth to speak:

The Seal of the Prophets, upon him be peace and blessings, who is the luminous moon of the heaven of Messengership, proved his sainthood through his Ascension, which is the greatest miracle of his sainthood achieved through the quality of his worship–so elevated as to make him the beloved of God. In other words, by making Muhammad, an earthly being, travel through the heavens, God showed to the dwellers of the heavens and of the highest realms his superiority to them and his being His beloved. Similarly, through the splitting of the moon, which is set in the sky and bound to the earth, upon the gesture of the same earthly being, another great miracle was demonstrated for the inhabitants of the earth as an evidence of the Messengership of that earthly being. Thus, the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, flew to the summit of perfections on the two brilliant wings of Messengership and sainthood–like the two bright halves of the moon split into two; he ascended so near as to the distance of two bowstrings–that is, to the highest rank, the nearest station to God–and so became the cause of pride of both the beings of the heavens and the inhabitants of the earth.

Upon him and upon his family be blessings and peace such as to fill the earth and heavens.

Glory be unto You! We have no knowledge save that which You have taught us; indeed, Your are the All-Knowing, All-Wise.

1. Bukhari, Manaqib, 27; Muslim, Kitab Sifat al-Munafiqin wa ahkamihim, 44.
:w:
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Preacher
07-12-2005, 07:38 PM
[QUOTE=root]I don't need any proof to support my claim that the moon has never split in half then came together again.[/qute]
Ah, my bad, I was not aware that mighty "root" (something of bottom {underground} that does not even know about surface) is exempt from presenting evidence. So, when did you exclude yourself from the burden of presenting evidence? Now are we suppose to bow to your authority "root?"
format_quote Originally Posted by root
The science of the moon is well known,
To whom and according to who? You can't even tell why and how sun and moon rise and set in such a uniform way (each day and each night) and what causes that?
format_quote Originally Posted by root
and the Quran & the Bible are not "Scientific Books" as any Muslim will tell you.
What a diversionary tactics, who is claiming that? I don't recall stating something to that effect.
format_quote Originally Posted by root
Since this thread is under "Basics of Islam". Then I can't see the point in taking this any further, I am more than happy for anyone to beleive anything they wish
Then what you are doing in this "Basics of Islam" forum? Why you are constantly injecting your fallacious views?

Can you tell us what you think are the sources of knowledge and what is your belief, by the way?

Regards
Preacher
Reply

Bittersteel
07-13-2005, 08:02 AM
Therefore, every miracle had to be, and was, manifested to convince those who heard the claim of Prophethood.
so it was the ones who heard of the Prophet's saws claim saw the miracle happen so it was not witnessed by the rest of the world but only by the Makkan,idol worshippers etc.
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root
07-13-2005, 10:47 AM
Can you tell us what you think are the sources of knowledge and what is your belief, by the way?
Sure, Science...........

As for my belief. Atheist.

Interesting that the picture provided by Ansar, shows the moon physically split into two. Yet in the scripture it did not happen like that: (Unless I am missing something).

The halves of the moon appeared one behind the mountain and the other in front of it. Then, the Prophet turned to us and said: ‘Be witnesses!’
Preacher:

Ah, my bad, I was not aware that mighty "root" (something of bottom {underground} that does not even know about surface) is exempt from presenting evidence. So, when did you exclude yourself from the burden of presenting evidence? Now are we suppose to bow to your authority "root?"
I take it with the tone you write you have very little love for me. Anyway, of course I don't need evidence. As I stated earlier, thier is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the moon recently halved itself temporarily. That in itself is my evidence...................
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Muezzin
07-13-2005, 04:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by root
I take it with the tone you write you have very little love for me. Anyway, of course I don't need evidence. As I stated earlier, thier is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the moon recently halved itself temporarily. That in itself is my evidence...................
And I had a dream yesterday of a strange Global Positioning System which there is no evidence for other than my telling you, but it still happened.
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Bittersteel
07-13-2005, 05:00 PM
Off topic:What does science tell us about the dreams we have?
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Preacher
07-13-2005, 05:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz
Off topic:What does science tell us about the dreams we have?
:sl:

Let me ask you an off topic question, how much it costs you (each month) to have Internet access in your country (Bangla Desh)?

:w:
Preacher
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Bittersteel
07-13-2005, 05:48 PM
1000oh alright alright I will search in the net don't bother.I get the point.I admit I am lazy.
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Muezzin
07-13-2005, 05:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Preacher
:sl:

Let me ask you an off topic question, how much it costs you (each month) to have Internet access in your country (Bangla Desh)?

:w:
Preacher
That was unfair. If you really were bothered about this being driven off-topic, you'd reply to my message which initiated the 'dream' tangent. Abdul Aziz asked a legitimate question, conceding that it was off-topic. If anything, the blame lies with me not him.
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Preacher
07-13-2005, 06:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
That was unfair. If you really were bothered about this being driven off-topic, you'd reply to my message which initiated the 'dream' tangent. Abdul Aziz asked a legitimate question, conceding that it was off-topic. If anything, the blame lies with me not him.
:sl:

Honestly I have no clue what you are talking about, I have no sense of reference. But I was wondering that which part of "off topic questioN" you didn't understand?

That was in fact an off topic question about the monthly cost of Internet in Bangla Desh?

What is this about you have written that I quote:
you'd reply to my message which initiated the 'dream' tangent
Anyway, I am not blaming Abdul Aziz for anything, neither I am blaming you for anything. It must be a full moon that is making some of us to go postal. ;)

:w:
Preacher
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Muezzin
07-13-2005, 06:20 PM
Sorry bro, I misunderstood. :)

Anyway, back on topic...
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Preacher
07-13-2005, 06:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by root
Sure, Science...........
You did dance around my post # 31 above, never address it and didn't answer my direct question, I wonder why?

So you think that your source/s of knowledge is "science"? Come to think that why you were unable to answer my question on evolution thread where I asked "what is the origin of life and/or how the life began?" Why your source of knowledge i.e, "science" does not offer you an answer? Why you avoided my question in my post # 31, if the science is the "panacea' of al your questions/problems?
format_quote Originally Posted by root
As for my belief. Atheist.
This means that you have a Judeo-Christian background and upbringing and when you learned (at some of point of your life) that your Bible does not make sense at all, you rejected the Bible and God. This is how you became an "Atheist" and not being learned. No wonder you do not possess the capacity to answer simple questions.
format_quote Originally Posted by root
Interesting that the picture provided by Ansar, shows the moon physically split into two. Yet in the scripture it did not happen like that: (Unless I am missing something).
You have quoted brother Ansar here, why? I consider it a diversionary tactics, because now you are delibaretly mixing apples and oranges to consufe the issue.
format_quote Originally Posted by root
I take it with the tone you write you have very little love for me.
I am not in business of love/loving or sucking up people like you on the Internet. I am also not obligated to love anyone, let alone you. I love for the sake of Allah and I hate for the sake of Allah as a Muslim. I have no desire changing my belief in enjoying the good and forbidding the evil.
format_quote Originally Posted by root
Anyway, of course I don't need evidence. As I stated earlier, thier is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the moon recently halved itself temporarily. That in itself is my evidence...................
Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand. You are yet another supplier of cheap talk and the proof of that are your posts in this forum. Your denial means nothing to two billion Muslims in this world.

Regards
Preacher
Reply

root
07-13-2005, 08:05 PM
Preacher.........

Firstly I have a confession to make. I have un-wittingly become involved within the "Basics Of islam" thread to which I do not really Engage within. This said however, I also noted your apparent rudeness to another poster. So here is your response that you asked for:

You did dance around my post # 31 above, never address it and didn't answer my direct question, I wonder why?
Why! Because I don't accept scripture or religous writings as being valid within this queer universe of ours. To submit such material as a basis of proof for an event happening is not the way I tend to accept such huge claims as the moon physically seperating. I am open minded to many an odity, but to support your claim the way you did invalidates the debate because you have fore knowledge that I am not a muslim. With the lack of scientific evidence, one requires faith. Faith cannot be debated. So why are you asking this of me?

So you think that your source/s of knowledge is "science"??
Come to think that why you were unable to answer my question on evolution thread where I asked "what is the origin of life and/or how the life began?" Why your source of knowledge i.e, "science" does not offer you an answer? Why you avoided my question in my post # 31, if the science is the "panacea' of al your questions/problems?
No, as it happens. Since you are going into much detail allow me to state that I use a lot of sources for knowledge including religion but the main source is indeed science.

I did not realise that I had "failed" to respond to you, So I apologise. It's not all bad news as I have been in quite deep debate with a fellow muslim of yours that I have quite come to respect which included quite a deep debate into the scientific perspective of how we came to be. Here is the link........

Happy reading :-)

http://www.islamicboard.com/showthread.php?t=1867

Though you have mis-interpreted my reasons for failing to respond to you, I am the first to confess that science unlike Christianity and Islam does not hold the answer to "Everything" with respect to how we got here and why we are here and of course what happens after death. Science continually gains knowledge, it is this knowledge that conflicts with many versions of differing religions including Islam.

This means that you have a Judeo-Christian background and upbringing and when you learned (at some of point of your life) that your Bible does not make sense at all, you rejected the Bible and God. This is how you became an "Atheist" and not being learned. No wonder you do not possess the capacity to answer simple questions.
Personally, I would re-phrase what is bolded to make it a more accurate statement about myself. Unless you now want to suggest you know more about me than me!

This means that you have a Judeo-Christian background and upbringing and when you learned (at some of point of your life) that religion does not make sense at all, you rejected religion

You have quoted brother Ansar here, why? I consider it a diversionary tactics, because now you are delibaretly mixing apples and oranges to consufe the issue.
Now you are talking utter nonsense. Firstly preacher, I don't employ "Tactics" that in itself implies working towards a set goal. To which I have none other than a contribution though I fear it exposes yourself as somewhat a "Tactition" in order to consider it! I posted a valid response in that the scripture quoted stated half the moon appeared in front of the mauntain and the other half behind. Ansar (another Muslim) I have come to respect on this forum posted an image depicting the moon splitting in Open view! I was merely asking him why the image he posted is not like the scripture I posted. If you consider this a tactic to cause confusion then I probably marvel at the conspiracy theories you must have within that brain of yours. Though I am still hoping I get an answer to that question

I am not in business of love/loving or sucking up people like you on the Internet. I am also not obligated to love anyone, let alone you. I love for the sake of Allah and I hate for the sake of Allah as a Muslim. I have no desire changing my belief in enjoying the good and forbidding the evil.
Good manners cost nothing! and communication skills are an important tool in todays world do you not think & nobody has spoken about changing your beleif, why would you. However it seems to me that you have a slight perverse sense of debate in that you are willing to debate only when one is in agreement with you. And rude when they are not.

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand. You are yet another supplier of cheap talk and the proof of that are your posts in this forum. Your denial means nothing to two billion Muslims in this world.
That's your opinion. Not the opinion of 2 billion other muslims therfore I reject what you have said out of hand.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
07-13-2005, 08:39 PM
Peace Root,
I specifically posted the image to clarify the undertsanding of the miracle as it seemed like there was some confusion. By "scripture" I assume you are referring to the quote you cited in your post just before mine. That quote was part of a larger article, so to explain the quote, I pasted the entire article which should clear confusion that it was not simply a matter half of the moon being invisible due to a mountain. It was a miraculous split, which was viewed by all people after the Prophet saws performed the miracle by God's command. Perhaps we could argue that the article did not explain this clearly enough.

I have read an interesting analysis of the miracle by a Muslim astronomer, who takes a slightly different interpretation of the event, which I shall post later, God willing.

peace
Reply

root
07-14-2005, 12:02 PM
Thanks Ansar for that clarification.

I have a bit of a problem here and please bear in mind I am a non-muslim, so it takes me much longer to look into such matters. The problem I have is specific to the nature of the moon splitting: With this I mean that the splitting of the moon has many sources:

The following narrations and eye witnesses talk directly about Noble Verse 54:1 from the Noble Quran: "The Hour (of Judgement) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder. (The Noble Quran, 54:1)"

Let us look at those eye witnesses' narrations:

Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: "During the lifetime of the Prophet the moon was split into two parts and on that the Prophet said, 'Bear witness (to thus).' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 830)"

Narrated Anas: "That the Meccan people requested Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle, and so he showed them the splitting of the moon. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 831)"

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: "The moon was split into two parts during the lifetime of the Prophet. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 832)"

Narrated Anas bin Malik: "The people of Mecca asked Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle. So he showed them the moon split in two halves between which they saw the Hiram' mountain. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 208)"

Narrated 'Abdullah: "The moon was split ( into two pieces ) while we were with the Prophet in Mina. He said, "Be witnesses." Then a Piece of the moon went towards the mountain. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 209)"

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas: "During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle the moon was split (into two places). (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 210)"

Narrated 'Abdullah: "The moon was split (into two pieces). (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 211)"

Narrated Abdullah: "Five things have passed, i.e. the smoke, the defeat of the Romans, the splitting of the moon, Al-Batsha (the defeat of the infidels in the battle of Badr) and Al-Lizam (the punishment)' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)), Volume 6, Book 60, Number 345)"
OK, so here we have 8 testimonies to the splitting of the moon. (I have bolded the actual reference to the splitting of the moon). If we eliminate the above comments based on the fact that the splitting of the moon is only mentioned and not expanded upon. This would leave us with only two.

the moon split in two halves between which they saw the Hiram' mountain.

and

Then a Piece of the moon went towards the mountain

Now reduced to two, the two conflict. One states in an ambiguos manner the other mentions only one part. If the "proof" describes a physical seperation where the two moons appear as two seperate entities then please post them. additionally where in the authentic Islamic books do we see any mention of Prophet Muhammad splitting the moon with his index finger.

My point here is to find a definitive answer to the moon physically splitting in two, or the moon being split in two by a mauntain restricting the view of the orther half?
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