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lavikor201
02-07-2007, 02:04 AM
Now what if someone told you that the CD player came by accident - billions of years of accidental natural upheavals caused the glasss to be formed out of sand, the wires out of copper, the body out of raw aluminum that melded with other metals, that it all accidently came together, including the logo and the letters on the front, the hinged cover, the playing mechanism, the machinery, the batteries, everything - that it came not through design but through accident -- What would you say to the person?

Now think about how they are telling you the whole world was created this way!

A great story from a Rabbi:

A non-believer came to a rabbi and asked him to prove the existence of G-d. The rabbi instructed him to come back the next day for the answer to his question. The non-believer felt thrilled to have seemingly "stumped" the rabbi. When he came back the next day he excitedly demanded the answer from the learned man. The rabbi replied that he would give his answer momentarily, but before he did he wanted his questioner to read a beautiful poem he had on his desk.

The non-believer read the work and was inspired by the lovely images described within the poem and asked the rabbi who the author was. The rabbi explained that there was no author. What had happened was that while deep in thought pondering the profound question he had been asked the rabbi had accidentally knocked over the ink well on his desk onto a blank piece of paper and this poem was what the spill had produced. The non-believer scoffed at the ridiculous notion that something as wonderful as that poem could be the result of an accident.


At that point the rabbi explained that if something as simple as a poem could not be created by accident or without an author then certainly something as wonderfully complex as our world could not come into being without an Author. Obviously, the skeptic was skeptical no more as he realized the validity of the rabbi's point.
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AHMED_GUREY
02-07-2007, 02:12 AM
nice story

ps could you explain ---> g-d without --> o
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Pygoscelis
02-07-2007, 04:30 AM
I seriously doubt this ever happened. It looks more like a retelling of the watchmaker story.

Of course the proper answer to the rabbi after this little demonstration is to declare immediate conversion to the Shinto religion. Surely their Gods wrote the poem.
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lavikor201
02-07-2007, 04:46 AM
ps could you explain ---> g-d without --> o
Sure. We write G-d like this "G-d" to prevent his name from being erased, since it is against the Torah to allow G-d's name to be erased. Therefore, if this site was deleted, some Rabbi's say that G-d's name written out would be erased with the deletion of this site. Therefore, you have to options. Write it like this: "G-d", or believe that this site will never be deleted and will be around for all eternity.

I seriously doubt this ever happened. It looks more like a retelling of the watchmaker story.

Of course the proper answer to the rabbi after this little demonstration is to declare immediate conversion to the Shinto religion. Surely their Gods wrote the poem.
Better then rejecting the existance of a higher being all together.
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north_malaysian
02-07-2007, 04:53 AM
I've heard this kind of story before...

Long time ago in Baghdad during the rules of Abbasid Caliphate.. there was a great shaikh.

There was also a famous Atheist who is so knowledgeble.

One day, the Atheist asked the sheikh for a debate about the existence of God. And they managed to fixed a date for the debate.

During that day, the crowds and the atheist waited at the place fixed for the debate... they waited... and waited...until sunset.

Then the Atheist declared that the Shaikh was fear of loosing the debate to him, that's why he wasnt there....

A few minutes later, the Shaikh came.... the Atheist ask .. why you're late...

The shaikh said that he live accross the river ... he could not make it because there were no boats to carry him to the other side of the river to attend the debate. He waited and waited for any boat to come and bring him there...

As the sun starting to set down suddenly, the tree beside him started to cut itself into pieces and formed as a boat... then the boat took him and give him a ride to the place...

"Ha!Ha!Ha!" the atheist laughed.... "you're one crazy man! How can the boat built by itself? There must be somebody who built it..... there must be someone rowing the boat to get you here as the boat cannot move itself..."

The shaikh said...."that's the answer for this debate....."

:D
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Pygoscelis
02-07-2007, 06:44 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
Better then rejecting the existance of a higher being all together.
Is it? This flows nicely into one of the flaws in Pascal's Wager. You really think that the real Godess would be happier with you for worshiping false Gods than for worshiping no God at all? Most religious "sacred" texts I've read would disagree. For example, the Bible states "thou shalt have no Gods before me" and entire chapters are dedicated to Bible God destroying and terrorizing people for worsiping false gods/idols.
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Pygoscelis
02-07-2007, 06:49 AM
The other response to the Rabbi after his demonstration is to appear impressed and ask him all about his God who he says exists.

Then exclaim "WOW! The folks who built this God must have been really advanced and powerful!"
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Trumble
02-07-2007, 07:57 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Then exclaim "WOW! The folks who built this God must have been really advanced and powerful!"
Indeed.

All the 'argument' does is replace 'mystery' of the creation of something vast and complex that (generally) can be explained by known physical processes with the 'mystery' of the creation of something even more vast and complex that cannot be explained by known physical processes. It's only convincing to those who already believe God exists as for them the more improbable of the two processes is already a given.
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lavikor201
02-07-2007, 11:07 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Is it? This flows nicely into one of the flaws in Pascal's Wager. You really think that the real Godess would be happier with you for worshiping false Gods than for worshiping no God at all? Most religious "sacred" texts I've read would disagree. For example, the Bible states "thou shalt have no Gods before me" and entire chapters are dedicated to Bible God destroying and terrorizing people for worsiping false gods/idols.
I don't know. But it could certainly lead you to belief in the G-d one day.
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-07-2007, 11:10 AM
Thanks for that lavikor, smart rabi :D
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arabiyyah
02-07-2007, 07:24 PM
nice post. :)
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wilberhum
02-08-2007, 08:44 PM
A man rolled a 1,000 dice. After words another man walked into the room and said.
Look at that there are exactly 172 6’s and ** 5’s …….. and ** 1’s.
What is the chance that you could roll that many dice and come up with those numbers?
Look how close some are to each other and how far apart others are.
What is the chance that you could roll than many dice and come up with those distances?
What are the chances that you could roll that many dice and come up with that combination?
The odds are un-calculatedly. That was all the man needed to know that it was not random chance, it had to be the work of a higher power.
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Pygoscelis
02-08-2007, 09:57 PM
If a tree falls in the forrest, and there's no one there to hear it, did it really squash the squirrel?
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Malaikah
02-09-2007, 08:50 AM
^You lost me- what does the sound have to do with squashing the squirrel? :?
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Muhammad
02-09-2007, 11:04 AM
Greetings,

If a tree falls in the forrest, and there's no one there to hear it, did it really squash the squirrel?
http://www.islamicboard.com/halal-fu...stions-ii.html
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Pygoscelis
02-11-2007, 03:15 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
^You lost me- what does the sound have to do with squashing the squirrel? :?
Nothing. I was just poking fun at the old saying.

Here's another

Now I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
But should I die before I wake. Then sleeping was a big mistake.
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IzakHalevas
02-11-2007, 03:23 AM
Have you ever heard of Pascals wager, I would love your thoughts on it, just as a conversation between 1 human to another, since I found it interesting.
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Pygoscelis
02-11-2007, 05:25 AM
Pascal's wager is flawed in a number of ways. I'll start a thread on it so not to keep this one on life support via an off topic conversation.

Edited to add: Ok, post added to the Comparative Religion section entitled Pascal's Wager
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