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GreatLoveJesus
02-17-2007, 05:40 PM
Salam and Hello,

I do not know how many of you read the general Christian articles on Islam, but one thing is certain: Even when they try not to proselityze to the Muslims, they still hurl insults at every direction.

Look at the Catholic Encyclopedia and its article on Islam, titled:
"Mohammed and Mohammedanism"

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10424a.htm

Subhanallah, what open blindness!!!

If such people do not even want to name us properly, what hope do we have that most of them will even listen to the Islamic message?
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Muezzin
02-17-2007, 05:44 PM
'To complement this article, which was taken from the 1910 Catholic Encyclopedia, New Advent recommends a prayerful reading of "Nostra Aetate" from the Second Vatican Council. '

People didn't give a toss about political correctness (or, in this case, just plain old correctness) in the early 20th century. Don't get too worried about it.
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GreatLoveJesus
02-17-2007, 05:47 PM
^


'To complement this article, which was taken from the 1910 Catholic Encyclopedia, New Advent recommends a prayerful reading of "Nostra Aetate" from the Second Vatican Council. '

People didn't give a toss about political correctness (or, in this case, just plain old correctness) in the early 20th century. Don't get too worried about it.
Yes, but the Christian mind with respect to Islam is still in 1910, if not 1910 B.H. (Before Humans).. otherwise they would have at least tried to correct the tone for the current online edition...as we see in their articles on evolution or abortion, which contain the latest data available.
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Woodrow
02-17-2007, 05:48 PM
Might want to read the first line closer.

To complement this article, which was taken from the 1910 Catholic Encyclopedia, New Advent recommends a prayerful reading of "Nostra Aetate" from the Second Vatican Council.
That was a very bigoted book. I may be wrong but I believe that the Vatican has taken a more stand towards respect of Islam. I'm thinking specificaly in the workings of Pope John Paul 2 and his attempts to open dialogue with Muslims.

I do not think those attitudes expressed in 1910 hold for the majority of todays Catholics.
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Woodrow
02-17-2007, 05:52 PM
You also may want to check the contact source for that website:

New Advent

CONTACT INFORMATION

This website is maintained by a Catholic layman named Kevin Knight. If you need to reach me, please use the email form below. Unfortunately, due to the volume of incoming email, I'm unable to respond to each letter, so here are some answers to the most common inquiries:

Theological questions: I have no particular expertise in Catholic theology; my specialty is Web design, not Church doctrine. For solid answers on Catholic topics, I recommend writing to Dear Grace or EWTN.
I am not defending Catholochism, but out of fairness it should be noted that site is the workings of one man and is not church authorised.
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duskiness
02-17-2007, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
'To complement this article, which was taken from the 1910 Catholic Encyclopedia, New Advent recommends a prayerful reading of "Nostra Aetate" from the Second Vatican Council. '
The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.
quote from Nostra Aetate concerning Muslims
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GreatLoveJesus
02-18-2007, 03:06 AM
^

They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion.
I would like the Muslims' opinion on this phrase or maybe an explanation of what it means, since on the surface, this statement is quite wrong.
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Malaikah
02-18-2007, 04:00 AM
^No, we only respect her as the best woman to ever exist, never do we call on her (whatever that means?). We only call out to God. Calling out to any one other than God is major shirk (associating partners with God), and makes the person a non-Muslim.
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*Hana*
02-18-2007, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by GreatLoveJesus
^

They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion.
I would like the Muslims' opinion on this phrase or maybe an explanation of what it means, since on the surface, this statement is quite wrong.
Salam Alaikum:

I think what it's saying is that we respect her for what she represents, and hold her in very high regard as the mother of one of the greatest Prophets. Just as Catholics also hold her in very high regard...although they do pray to her, I think it was just to show how both Muslims and Christians respect her. "Calling on her with devotion" is probably referring to us adding "Peace be Upon Her", when we speak of her.

I don't think it was meant to imply that we pray to her or worship her.

Wa'alaikum salam,
Hana
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Umar001
02-18-2007, 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by GreatLoveJesus
Yes, but the Christian mind with respect to Islam is still in 1910, if not 1910 B.H. (Before Humans).. otherwise they would have at least tried to correct the tone for the current online edition...as we see in their articles on evolution or abortion, which contain the latest data available.

What do you mean 'The Christian Mind' please do not make generalised statements brother.


Originally Posted by duskiness
quote from Nostra Aetate concerning Muslims
If possible please provide a source. Else anyone will just say such and such said such and such. And if a source has been given please direct me to it, am pretty unaware of this stuff.

Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
Salam Alaikum:

I think what it's saying is that we respect her for what she represents, and hold her in very high regard as the mother of one of the greatest Prophets. Just as Catholics also hold her in very high regard...although they do pray to her, I think it was just to show how both Muslims and Christians respect her. "Calling on her with devotion" is probably referring to us adding "Peace be Upon Her", when we speak of her.

I don't think it was meant to imply that we pray to her or worship her.

Wa'alaikum salam,
Hana

Well sister, the same type of speech is used by some catholics I know when they talk about 'calling on a saint' they dont mean 'peace be upon him' or pray for the saint, but rather they ask for things.

Calling upon Mary would mean asking or making dua to her, not making asking Allah for her, but asking her for something to give us by the grace of Allah.
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*Hana*
02-18-2007, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
[B]


Well sister, the same type of speech is used by some catholics I know when they talk about 'calling on a saint' they dont mean 'peace be upon him' or pray for the saint, but rather they ask for things.

Calling upon Mary would mean asking or making dua to her, not making asking Allah for her, but asking her for something to give us by the grace of Allah.
Salam Alaikum, Brother:

Well, as a former Catholic myself, I can tell you that yes, they do call on saints for a variety of reasons. But, I was referring to what was posted above. It was a quote from Nostra Aetate concerning Muslims, and from what I could tell, it was speaking with respect about how devoted Muslims are to their faith. Saying, "Calling on her with devotion" in the context of this article, to me, simply means referring to her with respect, and was most likely because of "peace be upon her" being added when speaking her name.

As a Catholic I would have never said, I call upon St. so and so, with devotion..." I might say, "I called upon St. Jude, (the patron saint of lost items), to help me find my ring." So, the wording is different enough for me to suggest that the author meant "referring to her with devotion".

Brother, this is simply my opinion, I am not the author to know how much knowledge he had or didn't have about Islam. I based my opinion on the context of the entire quote...not just the one sentence. So, for sure, I could be mistaken.

Allah, swt, knows best.

Wasalam,
Hana
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duskiness
02-18-2007, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
If possible please provide a source. Else anyone will just say such and such said such and such. And if a source has been given please direct me to it, am pretty unaware of this stuff.
as you wish Eesa ;)
full text on Vatican site
history of Nostra Aetate on wiki
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SilentObserver
02-18-2007, 08:08 PM
There is not much difference in the way that many muslims view and describe christianity and other religions from this.
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Umar001
02-18-2007, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by duskiness
as you wish Eesa ;)
full text on Vatican site
history of Nostra Aetate on wiki

Thank you.


Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
Salam Alaikum, sister:

Well, as a former Catholic myself, I can tell you that yes, they do call on saints for a variety of reasons. But, I was referring to what was posted above. It was a quote from Nostra Aetate concerning Muslims, and from what I could tell, it was speaking with respect about how devoted Muslims are to their faith. Saying, "Calling on her with devotion" in the context of this article, to me, simply means referring to her with respect, and was most likely because of "peace be upon her" being added when speaking her name.

As a Catholic I would have never said, I call upon St. so and so, with devotion..." I might say, "I called upon St. Jude, (the patron saint of lost items), to help me find my ring." So, the wording is different enough for me to suggest that the author meant "referring to her with devotion".

Sister, this is simply my opinion, I am not the author to know how much knowledge he had or didn't have about Islam. I based my opinion on the context of the entire quote...not just the one sentence. So, for sure, I could be mistaken.

Allah, swt, knows best.

Wasalam,
Hana
I understand the above, maybe I am just more suspicious lol thanks for explaining though.
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*Hana*
02-19-2007, 12:48 AM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
[B]

I understand the above, maybe I am just more suspicious lol thanks for explaining though.
Salam Alaikum Brother:

Awww, no brother, not too suspicious at all. You were absolutely right to point out the fact that we would never "call on her" the way Catholics would call upon Saints. Quite frankly, if someone had said this exact quote to me today, I would make it clear that we don't do that to ensure there were no misunderstandings.

Take care and wasalam for now,
Hana
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paarsurrey
02-19-2007, 04:51 AM
[QUOTE=GreatLoveJesus;660066
They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion.
I would like the Muslims' opinion on this phrase or maybe an explanation of what it means, since on the surface, this statement is quite wrong.[/QUOTE]

Hi
I am new on this forum, and this is my first post here. It is true that we Muslims do respect Mary for her piety; and the devotedness she showed to love of GodAllahYHWH when her mother devoted her for that and put her under guardianship of Zechariah ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH for learning and she learnt everything from him, it is for that GodAllahYHWH talked to her and angels appeared before her although she was not a ProphetMessenger herself but she was mother of our greatly respected ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH. It is for such great qualities that a believer in Islam cannot become a good believer unless he is like one of the two women i.e. MaryMeriumMaryam and other one is the wife of Pharaoh, that lady who adopted Moses, I would like to quote here from Quran:
The Holy Quran : Chapter 66: Al-Tahrim
[66:11] Allah sets forth an example for those who disbelieve, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. They were under two righteous servants of Ours, but they acted treacherously to them. So they availed them naught against Allah, and it was said to them, 'Enter the Fire, ye twain, along with those who enter it.'
[66:12] And Allah holds forth as an example, for those who believe, the wife of Pharaoh when she said, 'My Lord! build for me a house with Thee in the Garden; and deliver me from Pharaoh and his work, and deliver me from the wrongdoing people;
[66:13] And sets forth as an example Mary, the daughter of Imr›n, who guarded her chastity - so We breathed into him of Our Spirit -and she fulfilled the prophecy conveyed to her in the words of her Lord contained in His Books and she was one of the obedient.

Unquote
So no believer in Islam can be a true believer unless one is in likeness of the above two ladies/womens. MaryMeriumMaryam is on a higher status than the otherone as she received revelation from GodAllahYHWH and angels visited her. This also shows that GodAllahYHWH can talk to a true Muslim and angels could also visit him and talk to him, otherwise GodAllahYHWH would have not mentioned Maryam in this context. This is also a sign of truthfulness of Muhammad Khatumun Nabiyyeen, as he has sealed fate of all Jews and Christians, that no person amongst them could be a ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH unless that person accepts truthfulness of Muhammad and becomes his true follower.
Muslims do not call Maryam, I mean Muslims do not pray to her, we rather pray humbly to our God Almighty, who hears our prayers and hence we donot call anybody human, not even Muhammad.
Thanks
bridging gaps between religions and working for unity amongst them by peaceful means.
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