AIDS: A Punishment From Allah

[Talha777]

Ashshahadu an la illa ha il Allahu
Wa Ashshahadu ana Muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluh

Auzubillahi min ash-shaitani ar-rajeem
Bismillahi ar-Rahmani ar-Rahmeen

In the name of Allah, The Gracious, the Merciful

We grant them their pleasure for a little while: in the end shall We drive them to a chastisement unrelenting. (31:24)

The AIDS epidemic is spreading throughout the world. Though it may seem to a be a "third world" disease, even modern Western countries like the United States of America are not immune from it. It is without a doubt a lethal and painful punishment for those who are afflicted with it. For Muslims, it is a Sign of Allah's Anger toward people who have abandoned His commandments and expectations of chastity, and who have dirtied themselves in unlawful sexual relations. It is also a fulfilment of a prophecy made by the Holy Prophet Muhammad (salallahu alaihi wa salam):

It never happens that permissiveness overwhelms a people to the extent that they display their acts of sex shamelessly and they are not uniquely punished by God. Among them, invariably, pestilence is made to spread and such other diseases, the like of which have never been witnessed by their forefathers. (Ibn Majah; Kitab-ul-Fitan)

[Keltoi]

I can't say whether AIDS is a punishment from God or not, but that shouldn't get in the way of searching for a cure. If it is a punishment from God, the chances are that no cure exists. Regardless, hopefully God will have mercy and bless those who are searching for a cure and end the suffering of those afflicted with this disease.

[tomtomsmom]

Sex isn't the only way that you get aids:rollseyes

[Keltoi]

Sex isn't the only way that you get aids:rollseyes

Excellent point, which is why I don't believe AIDS to be a punishment from God.

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[wilberhum]

Sex isn't the only way that you get aids:rollseyes

Of course not. Blood transfusions are the major cause. This is just some sick, demented justification to hate homosexuals. :raging: People need to justify there hate and this is just another example of it. :raging: :raging:

[Keltoi]

Of course not. Blood transfusions are the major cause. This is just some sick, demented justification to hate homosexuals. :raging: People need to justify there hate and this is just another example of it. :raging: :raging:

I also think there is a need to make sense of such an awful plague upon mankind. However, I notice that few make the claim that cancer or heart disease is a punishment from God. There is obviously still a stigma attached to AIDS because of the sexual nature of its origins.

[AHMED_GUREY]

there millions of babies suffering from it, i wouldn't call it a punishment from Allah swt since they committed no sins, unless you want to argue them being collateral damage for the acts of the adults before them comparable to the era of the Fircoon and the punishment he received from Allah swt

[strider]

This is freakishly beginning to sound like what people said when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans.

[tomtomsmom]

This is freakishly beginning to sound like what people said when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans.

Huh?

[aljawaad]

I can't say whether AIDS is a punishment from God or not, but that shouldn't get in the way of searching for a cure. If it is a punishment from God, the chances are that no cure exists. Regardless, hopefully God will have mercy and bless those who are searching for a cure and end the suffering of those afflicted with this disease.

Its a punishment and no cure would be found. If ever a cure is found another disease maybe more disastrous than this would appear.
I think that there is a hadith with has more or less this meaning or part of what i've mentioned above, but unfortunately i can't remember that hadith.
If ayone knows something similar to this, please quote it.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Hmmm is there. It cant be a punishment for the children who inherited it though :( Thats just wrong. Would anyone else like to step in and clear it up:?

[tomtomsmom]

I think that to assume it is a punishment is ridiculous. Aren't punishments supposed to be given in the afterlife???

[strider]

Huh?

Some people thought it was Gods punishment on all the gays who resided there.

[tomtomsmom]

Some people thought it was Gods punishment on all the gays who resided there.

That is just about the stupidest thing I have ever heard!!!! Or read....erm.....you know what I mean!

[rebelishaulman]

Ashshahadu an la illa ha il Allahu

Wa Ashshahadu ana Muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluh

Auzubillahi min ash-shaitani ar-rajeem
Bismillahi ar-Rahmani ar-Rahmeen

In the name of Allah, The Gracious, the Merciful

We grant them their pleasure for a little while: in the end shall We drive them to a chastisement unrelenting. (31:24)

The AIDS epidemic is spreading throughout the world. Though it may seem to a be a "third world" disease, even modern Western countries like the United States of America are not immune from it. It is without a doubt a lethal and painful punishment for those who are afflicted with it. For Muslims, it is a Sign of Allah's Anger toward people who have abandoned His commandments and expectations of chastity, and who have dirtied themselves in unlawful sexual relations. It is also a fulfilment of a prophecy made by the Holy Prophet Muhammad (salallahu alaihi wa salam):

It never happens that permissiveness overwhelms a people to the extent that they display their acts of sex shamelessly and they are not uniquely punished by God. Among them, invariably, pestilence is made to spread and such other diseases, the like of which have never been witnessed by their forefathers. (Ibn Majah; Kitab-ul-Fitan)

Right, and G-d is punishing the babies to? :-\ :rollseyes

[England]

As people gays can be decent people. I don't agree with what they do but it doesn't concern me nor is their private life of any interest to me. I've known a few gay guys and I've had interesting friendly conversations with them. I don't mind gays as long as they keep it to themselves.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Ahh, i cant put gays and decency together =\. well thats just me of course...

[England]

Ahh, i cant put gays and decency together =\. well thats just me of course...

No that's just your religion. I can tolerate gays as long as it's not forced upon me. I don't like to see gays kiss in public either. I can get on with them and they know their boundaries.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

As people gays can be decent people. I don't agree with what they do but it doesn't concern me nor is their private life of any interest to me. I've known a few gay guys and I've had interesting friendly conversations with them. I don't mind gays as long as they keep it to themselves.

That's the same mindset I have.

[strider]

No that's just your religion. I can tolerate gays as long as it's not forced upon me. I don't like to see gays kiss in public either. I can get on with them and they know their boundaries.

That isn't religion, that's just sister Jazzy.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^:lol: Learn to read people comeon! Sheesh.

[snakelegs]

who gets AIDS?
people of every age, race, religion and sexual orientation.
gays get it.
straight men get it and give it to their wives.
babies are being born with it.
blood transfusions are a cause.
drug addiction is a cause (dirty needles)
and poverty is a cause (in many poor countries, needles are re-used in clinics).
how can anyone be so arrogant as to claim to know that this is a punishment from Allah? :enough!:

[England]

who gets AIDS?
people of every age, race, religion and sexual orientation.
gays get it.
straight men get it and give it to their wives.
babies are being born with it.
blood transfusions are a cause.
drug addiction is a cause (dirty needles)
and poverty is a cause (in many poor countries, needles are re-used in clinics).
how can anyone be so arrogant as to claim to know that this is a punishment from Allah? :enough!:

Where did aids originate? From Africa :X

[wilberhum]

Where did aids originate? From Africa :X

Yes, from Africa. There are several theories for the “first cause” but I don’t think any have be proven.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
Perhaps aids is not a punishmet but a reminder from Allah.

[Count DeSheep]

Where did aids originate? From Africa :X

Why is its place of origin relevant? It's killing God's children. It doesn't matter where it comes from, it's bad and it's gotta go.

[wilberhum]

Why is its place of origin relevant? It's killing God's children. It doesn't matter where it comes from, it's bad and it's gotta go.

It is called knowledge. :-\ Knowledge is a good thing. :thumbs_up

[- Qatada -]

Why is its place of origin relevant? It's killing God's children. It doesn't matter where it comes from, it's bad and it's gotta go.

God doesn't have children :) otherwise He would need a spouse, which would mean He has an associate, which would mean there are two Gods. If there were two God's, one may decide to have one law whereas another may want another. Both may disagree, which may lead to argument, which may lead to fighting and the whole universe would be in chaos. At the end, one would have to lose, hence he would be weaker and therefore not God. :)

We're all God's creation and His servants - yes. God only does what befits His Majesty. :)



But that's a totally different topic.


Regards.

[Count DeSheep]

It is called knowledge. :-\ Knowledge is a good thing. :thumbs_up

I interpreted England's post as being suggestive of something.

[England]

We are God's creations but he looks at us as his children. It's not literal. He is our Father and I don't believe we are servants.

[England]

I interpreted England's post as being suggestive of something.

lol suggestive of what? :)

[Count DeSheep]

God doesn't have children :) otherwise He would need a spouse, which would mean He has an associate, which would mean there are two Gods.

1. God doesn't need anything or anyone to do as He wishes. Just because we humans need a partner in order to reproduce doesn't mean He does.

2. I said we are His children because we are His creations. I did not intend to imply that He created us through the way we bring new life into the world. My apologies.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Hmm even I figured thats what u meant. Thought it was obvious :X

[Count DeSheep]

lol suggestive of what? :)

Perhaps I was wrong. Or perhaps you are playing innocent. Both are equally probable.

He is our Father and I don't believe we are servants.

Eh. To each his own, then. I see humankind as the children of God, but more importantly as servants of God. We exist to fulfill His wishes in whatever way we can.

[- Qatada -]

No worries countdesheep.


It's just that having a child is giving birth to one, otherwise it's not really a child is it? It's simply a creation. Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon them) was born without a father, the same way Adam was created without a father or mother. And Adam was the creation of God, the same way Jesus son of Mary was. :) We are all God's servants and we obey God because we are dependant upon Him, and to Him is the final return where we will be judged on all that we did in this world.

[Count DeSheep]

No worries countdesheep.

Not even gunna give me a little space in my name? You're so hurtful...:cry:

It's just that having a child is giving birth to one, otherwise it's not really a child is it?

Any foster parent would disagree, I'm sure.

[wilberhum]

And I keep getting posts deleted because they are "Off Topic". :-\ :-\

[- Qatada -]

Not even gunna give me a little space in my name? You're so hurtful...:cry:

Sorry! :p lol

Any foster parent would disagree, I'm sure.

No, i meant that any child is given birth to. :) Yes a foster child is even given birth to.



Regards.

[Count DeSheep]

And I keep getting posts deleted because they are "Off Topic". :-\ :-\

Ssshhh!!! You'll ruin it for all of us! I mean, um...:X

But we are kinda on topic, I think. But it's still, Mr. Super Moderator's decision. Are we straying too far off topic? >.<

[Count DeSheep]

No, i meant that any child is given birth to. :) Yes a foster child is even given birth to.

You must stop thinking of things like birth as being so static! Just because we do things one way doesn't mean it's totally impossible to do it another. Even if it was impossible, God could still do it. That's why He's...Himself.

[NoName55]

Hmmm is there. It cant be a punishment for the children who inherited it though :( Thats just wrong. Would anyone else like to step in and clear it up:?

:sl:

How about: it is a test for those who have it and also for the onlooker as well as self-proclaimed moola

Simply put: The Creator is testing the creation.

:w:

[Count DeSheep]

:sl:

How about a test for those have it and also for the onlooker as well as selfproclaimed moolas

Simply put: The Creator is testing the creation.

:w:

That's what I was gunna say...But then apparently, my Internet window was performing illegal operations and was locked away...:-\

Anywho, me thinks that innocent lives have been sacrificied so that sinners can learn and change their ways throughout history, and the AIDS thing is just one of those cases. Not everyone's totally innocent, of course, but still.

[snakelegs]

Where did aids originate? From Africa :X

so?

[Muezzin]

Human life originated in Africa.

Anyhow, I don't see why certain people claim every single calamity is a punishment from Allah. That's quite a disturbingly gloomy outlook. What next? 'Oh, it's raining. I think I'll twist the meaning of a Quranic verse so that the weather is a punishment for homosexuals'. Come on, guys.

[rebelishaulman]

Human life originated in Africa.

Anyhow, I don't see why certain people claim every single calamity is a punishment from Allah. That's quite a disturbingly gloomy outlook. What next? 'Oh, it's raining. It must be a punishment for homosexuals'. Come on, guys.

I agree. Humanity reaps what they sow.

[Count DeSheep]

Human life originated in Africa.

Boo. Human life originated in the Middle East. Somewhere in the middle of the east. Dunno for certain exactly where.

[Natural]

How can anyone think AIDS is a punishment from Allah?[MAD][/MAD] If that were the case, then why are certain celebraties (whose names I will not mention), seem to live longer, healthier and more productive lives with HIV/AIDS than those wo do not possess such fame and fortune? If it where a true punishment from Allah, than we know that Allah is the only one that is able to do anything about it. Money and fame can NOT slow down or stop what Allah starts. Think about it people.

Ya Ummati,
Natural

[Islamicboy]

Everything is send by Allah we believe that right? If Aids is not punishment from Allah S.W.T. then is it blessing?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

It cant just be a punishment. Why would a child born with it be punished? There must be more to it than it just being a punishment. I take it that its a punishment and reminder.

[Islamicboy]

Are earth quakes and floods not punishment from Allah S.W.T yet good people die too. That is why we are told to stay away from evil doers because when the punishment comes it comes to the entire town, city,country...

[nelly]

i just wanna clarify....tht it IS possiblr it cud be a punishment in this life 4 muslims...but if it is, its usually a purifiation or forgivness for the akhira, but like i said....its a humiliation 2 the kafir...but muslims who receieve such things r usually having their sins forgiven as a mercy for the akhira, it may be a punishment in this dunya so tht their punishment in akhira is lighter

[nelly]

tht illness is a mercy and forgivness of a muslims sins

[wilberhum]

Everything is send by Allah we believe that right? If Aids is not punishment from Allah S.W.T. then is it blessing?

I hope you are never blessed.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

He asked a question. Give it a rest please.

[nelly]

i dnt think he meant it in a bad way sis, i think he meant if its a blessin he hopes he doesnt get it

[wilberhum]

Boo. Human life originated in the Middle East. Somewhere in the middle of the east. Dunno for certain exactly where.

You really do live in XP. :-\
All human spices came from Africa.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

i dnt think he meant it in a bad way sis, i think he meant if its a blessin he hopes he doesnt get it

he asked if it was, not it is sis...big difference. unless the bro meant otherwise..

[Count DeSheep]

You really do live in XP. :-\
All human spices came from Africa.

I didn't know all human spices came from Africa. Nice to know done research on cannibals.

I've always been taught that the Garden of Eden is in the Middle East, and so it is there that life originated.

[Talha777]

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

This is my humble opinion:

AIDS is a punishment from Almighty Allah for the general promiscuity that has enveloped society, not just the West, but the entire world. A lot of people have asked that AIDS is many times passed on from mother to child, and the child is innocent, so why is Allah punishing him/her? I agree the child is innocent, but he is tainted with sin, in the sense that what his parents have wrought. He suffers the consequences for their rebellion against Allah. The child's own punishment can also be a punishment for the mother, because no mother can bear the suffering of her child, especially an infant. We all have to remember that when Allah punishes, He punishes severely, He is the Lord after all, and when He shows His Mercy, it is ecstatic to put it mildly. Almighty Allah has punished entire civilizations and societies for their wickedness, there are numerous examples from the Holy Quran:

Humanity was punished with the Great Flood for rejecting their Prophet Noah (alaihi salam)

But they rejected him, and We delivered him, and those with him, in the Ark: but We overwhelmed in the flood those who rejected Our signs. They were indeed a blind people! (7:64)

Sodom was a particularly wicked nation, and for their rejection of Prophet Lot (alaihi salam)

When Our Decree issued, We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay, spread, layer on layer (11:82)

Egypt and the people of Pharoah were punished with numerous plagues for their rejection of the message of Prophet Moses (alaihi salam)

So We sent (plagues) on them: Wholesale death, Locusts, Lice, Frogs, And Blood: Signs openly self-explained: but they were steeped in arrogance,- a people given to sin. (7:133)

The nation of Thamud was warned by their Prophet Salih (alaihi salam) but they rejected him, and were destroyed by a massive storm

But the Thamud, they were destroyed by a terrible Storm of thunder and lightning! (69:5)

The nation of 'Ad rejected their Prophet Hud (alaihi salam) and they were destroyed by a ferocious wind

And the 'Ad, they were destroyed by a furious Wind, exceedingly violent (69:6)

These are some examples of Heavenly punishments for those who became wicked and behaved insolently against the Prophets which Allah sent to warn against them. Now Allah has reiterated the warning of the greatest punishment yet through His Last Prophet Muhammad (salallahu alaihi wa salam) - The Day of Judgment itself! Other punishments on a smaller scale have also been prophecised such as AIDS, from the hadith I mentioned earlier. Who can deny that these are the Signs from Heaven?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

So the child with AIDS would be a reminder to the parent of what he/she did, right?

[Talha777]

So the child with AIDS would be a reminder to the parent of what he/she did, right?

And what a reminder!

[thirdwatch512]

hah i think there's a verse in the Bible that says something similar to quran 31:24, but i can't be for sure. i think it might be in the book of romans though, because i have been reading that lately.

[wilberhum]

AIDS is a punishment from Almighty Allah for the general promiscuity that has enveloped society,

So you believe in a god that punishes the chaste for the promiscuity of others.
To me that is a god of injustice.

[جوري]

:sl:
For what it is worth and I don't wish to get into the moral aspects of this topic.. there are lots worst diseases out there than AIDS...

With anti-retrovial therapy risk of vertical transmission from mother to child is reduced to < 5% provided she also doesn't breast feed and the infant goes on anti-retroviral therapy for 6 weeks postnatal...
adenine deaminase deficiency is bad... Wilsons disease is bad, anencephaly is bad... let me provide a picture just to hammer in how bad!

Do I think all of these are punishment from G-D? I don't honestly believe so. I think if we have that attitude we will end up judging good decent people who were afflicated with something through no fault of their own. Afflication with disease might be a test to their faith and patience rather than a horrible chastisment for evil doing. Why don't we leave G-D's creation to G-D without judging whom we think is afflicted with a disease.. any disease as a punishment! (Da3o Al-khalq lilkhaliq) and let's be grateful for the gifts that we do have... if anything other people's afflictions should make us think of the gifts we do have. And (Alhmdlilah Alzhi 'afana mima ibtla beh ghyrona)....

:w:

[NoName55]

frightening pics

[strider]

Talha777, show some compassion.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I still dont think its a punishment. Its a reminder for us to see how fortunate one is and should be content that God gave them health, hands, eyes, feet etc. For those who dont have it. But for the promiscuous...I think it is.

[Talha777]

Talha777, show some compassion.

I'm sorry, friend, but how am I not showing compassion?

[Muezzin]

hah i think there's a verse in the Bible that says something similar to quran 31:24, but i can't be for sure. i think it might be in the book of romans though, because i have been reading that lately.

Is it something about how the sins of the father will be paid for by his sons?

I'm not very fond of such an interpretation of misfortune. Blame the parents by all means when it comes to behaviour, but not necessarily for illness. To me, it's like saying, 'Your kid has Downs Syndrome because you sinned', which is a disgusting thing to say.

Boo. Human life originated in the Middle East. Somewhere in the middle of the east. Dunno for certain exactly where.

No?

Middle East, Middle East... Isn't the 'Cradle of Civilisation' somewhere in present day Iraq/Iran? I'm pretty sure all the remnants of the earliest forms of human life were found in Africa though...

[wilberhum]

I'm sorry, friend, but how am I not showing compassion?

Hum, my friend got AIDS from a blood transfusion.

Why is your god punishing him when he has not dirtied himself in unlawful sexual relations?

I can only assume you believe in a god of injustice.

[Count DeSheep]

Middle East, Middle East... Isn't the 'Cradle of Civilisation' somewhere in present day Iraq/Iran?

I think so. And if you think so too, then it's probably right, 'cause you're almost never left. =P

I'm pretty sure all the remnants of the earliest forms of human life were found in Africa though...

Psh. I don't believe in evolution, if that's what you're saying. Me say God made man in Middle East. That's where it all began.

[wilberhum]

Me say God made man in Middle East.

Me say the FSM brought humans from outer space. :skeleton:

What me say doesn't hold up to scientific facts. :? :?

[Count DeSheep]

Me say the FSM brought humans from outer space. :skeleton:

XD!!! The FSM...Me likes that idear. Been to the site a few times. Funneh storff.

What me say doesn't hold up to scientific facts. :? :?

What science say doesn't hold up to religious facts.

[wilberhum]

What science say doesn't hold up to religious facts.

Don't give up your day job.
I find it so sad when someone does not understand the difference between faith and facts.
Homo habilis remains are only found in Africa.

I have enough "Off Topic" posts deleted. Why don't you start another Thread?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Don't give up your day job.
I find it so sad when someone does not understand the difference between faith and facts.
Homo habilis remains are only found in Africa.

I have enough "Off Topic" posts deleted. Why don't you start another Thread?

science has changed a lot, no? :)

due to further discoveries i mean,

islam is my first source then science can come after that :).

I know you find this strange, but i wouldnt be much of a believer if it wasnt this way...

[NoName55]

Don't give up your day job.
I find it so sad when someone does not understand the difference between faith and facts.
Homo habilis remains are only found in Africa.

I have enough "Off Topic" posts deleted. Why don't you start another Thread?

I had 7 + deleted for being on topic, apparently one needs to seek permission beforehand (I am accused of provoking arguments):cry:

No consistency whatsoever (thats how it looks to me)


edit:
oopsie! off topic

[Count DeSheep]

Don't give up your day job.
I find it so sad when someone does not understand the difference between faith and facts.
Homo habilis remains are only found in Africa.

Psh. You have faith in what you think are facts. What I believe is just as much fact to me as homo habilis is to you.

[wilberhum]

I had 7 + deleted for being on topic, apparently one needs to seek permission beforehand (I am accused of provoking arguments):cry:

No consistency whatsoever (thats how it looks to me)


edit:
oopsie! off topic

A thread I was posting on just went away.
I had a couple deleted because they were “argumentative”. Now if they deleted all argumentative posts, the “World Affairs” and “Comparative religion” Forums would grow dust.

But again, we are “Off Topic”. :?

[wilberhum]

Psh. You have faith in what you think are facts. What I believe is just as much fact to me as homo habilis is to you.

Ya, but there are bones to back up homo habilis. :thumbs_up
He isn't some character in a story book. :-[

[Snowflake]

We grant them their pleasure for a little while: in the end shall We drive them to a chastisement unrelenting. (31:24)

I am sure the verse above is relating to punishment in Hell. No punishment on earth is unrelenting because it ends with death. It's not reasonable to pick out verses from the Quran and apply them to anything just to make a point.


Anyway we can't say AIDS is a punishment from Allah. The truth is that the virus already existed in apes. So God never designed it to punish humans. Then at some point the virus crossed over to humans.. But how? Due to humans own fault of course. It's like a mountaineer climbing without proper equipment then falling and breaking his neck. Would that be punishment from Allah or the man's own fault? I think the answer is obvious. Well I see AIDS in the same way. Humans are to blame for messing with nature and bringing the disease to themselves.

[wilberhum]

Muslimah_Sis

Humans are to blame for messing with nature and bringing the disease to themselves.

Excellent:thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up

[NoName55]

I am sure the verse above is relating to punishment in Hell. No punishment on earth is unrelenting because it ends with death. It's not reasonable to pick out verses from the Quran and apply them to anything just to make a point.


Anyway we can't say AIDS is a punishment from Allah. The truth is that the virus already existed in apes. So God never designed it to punish humans. Then at some point the virus crossed over to humans.. ..............................................

:sl:
Excellent :thumbs_up

[root]

Well I see AIDS in the same way. Humans are to blame for messing with nature and bringing the disease to themselves.

How can the hunting & eating of bushmeat be "messing with nature" other than, it's not a good idea to eat our closest related ancestors, and AIDS is a classic example why. But then again, for everyone on this forum that are creationists who deny chimps and other primates as our closest relations then it ain't a problem to begin with. Go figure peeps

[Muezzin]

Can we please keep the evolution debate out of this thread? It's our own version of Godwin's Law - each thread on LI that is not in the World Affairs section will turn into an evolution vs. creationism debate.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I am sure the verse above is relating to punishment in Hell. No punishment on earth is unrelenting because it ends with death. It's not reasonable to pick out verses from the Quran and apply them to anything just to make a point.


Anyway we can't say AIDS is a punishment from Allah. The truth is that the virus already existed in apes. So God never designed it to punish humans. Then at some point the virus crossed over to humans.. But how? Due to humans own fault of course. It's like a mountaineer climbing without proper equipment then falling and breaking his neck. Would that be punishment from Allah or the man's own fault? I think the answer is obvious. Well I see AIDS in the same way. Humans are to blame for messing with nature and bringing the disease to themselves.

Great post sis :thumbs_up

[wilberhum]

How can the hunting & eating of bushmeat be "messing with nature"

The last I heard the "First Cause" is still unknown.

Eating chimps is only one of several theories.

Some of the other theories do qualify as "messing with nature".

But I agree “it's not a good idea to eat our closest related ancestors”.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

today on the way to work i read a sign saying

790,000 sexually active teenagers are diagnosed for Sexually Transmitted Diseases.



AIDS ARE WITHOUT A DOUBT A PUNISHMENT FROM THE ALLMIGHTY FOR SUCH A SICK ACT WITHOUT NO REMORSE/GUILT OR HESITATION ON THE PART OF THE ONE COMMITING THIS GRAVE SIN.


:threadclo

[Malaikah]

So God never designed it to punish humans

:sl:

How can you possible know it wasn't designed for that? ALL viruses have to originate from somewhere, I've never heard of a virus that originated itself inside an actual human. Even malaria originated from a plant.

Then at some point the virus crossed over to humans.. But how? Due to humans own fault of course. It's like a mountaineer climbing without proper equipment then falling and breaking his neck. Would that be punishment from Allah or the man's own fault? I think the answer is obvious. Well I see AIDS in the same way. Humans are to blame for messing with nature and bringing the disease to themselves.

Are you assuming that you know the origins of AIDS? If so, what do you think it is?

By the way, you can't blame every person who has AIDS for bringing it upon themselves just because a couple of humans might have done something stupid!

Oh yeh, and messing with 'nature' is exactly how so many medicines and vaccines are made! It saves peoples life!

Unless the people you are reffering to had evil intentions, I don't see how that conclusion can be drawn...

[Musaafirah]

:sl:
Funny..I was just learning about this yesterday, and do you know that 75% of the sufferers of HIV (which leads to AIDS btw) are heterosexual? So it can't be justified that homosexuals are the only 'victims'.
Even so, some people are immune to HIV, even if their partner has it..:muddlehea
:w:

[mizan_aliashraf]

Salam
There is proof that the AIDS virus was man-made by the CIA
Wassalam

[Snowflake]

[QUOTE]

:sl:

How can you possible know it wasn't designed for that?

If is was - why would innocent babies/partners get it? Mainly babies who are sin free!? There is a revert sister who is HIV positive. Considering we believe all past sins are forgiven upon reverting, (therefore not punishable) is it feasible to think that the sister is being punished through AIDS?

ALL viruses have to originate from somewhere,

I didn't say they don't.

I've never heard of a virus that originated itself inside an actual human

Exactly! And that proves it's not a punishment as it's either acquired innocently or by putting one-self at risk. It's a consequence of human actions. Just like if I play chicken and get hit by a car - consequence of my own carelessness.

Are you assuming that you know the origins of AIDS? If so, what do you think it is?

No hun, I think you're assuming that I am assuming. :P

By the way, you can't blame every person who has AIDS for bringing it upon themselves just because a couple of humans might have done something stupid!

:D read my post again. I said that 'humans' have brought it upon themselves, i.e. upon mankind - not every individual has it brought it upon themselves. :rollseyes

Oh yeh, and messing with 'nature' is exactly how so many medicines and vaccines are made! It saves peoples life!

Messing as in 'abusing' dear. Not researching!

Unless the people you are reffering to had evil intentions, I don't see how that conclusion can be drawn...

I am referring to the fact that for a virus to have crossed over from animals to humans and as yet has no cure, man has somewhere/somehow crossed the bounderies of what is ethically/morally right. Whether that was professionally or personally, I don't know. But what I am sure of is that, this is precisely the reason why mankind is now suffering.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i see it as a test towards humanity as a whole, for example even though only 9 people of thamud plotted against saleh all of them were punished. Aids can be seen in the same light right?

[Snowflake]

i see it as a test towards humanity as a whole, for example even though only 9 people of thamud plotted against saleh all of them were punished. Aids can be seen in the same light right?

Even blessings are a test bro - to see if we appreciate them or not. :)

May Allah forgive me for saying this, but I believe some of what happens to mankind is self-inflicted. But yes, even in there is a test - the test of our imaan in many ways. So it doesn't necessarily mean that Allah thinks to Himself, "OK, I'll break so & so's leg and see how he reacts!" More like He knows so & so broke his leg becuz he was being a silly billy and not looking where he was going, so Allah tests him to see if his imaan remains strong in such an adversity.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

Even blessings are a test bro - to see if we appreciate them or not. :)

understood.

May Allah forgive me for saying this, but I believe some of what happens to mankind is self-inflicted. But yes, even in there is a test - the test of our imaan in many ways. So it doesn't necessarily mean that Allah thinks to Himself, "OK, I'll break so & so's leg and see how he reacts!" More like He knows so & so broke his leg becuz he was being a silly billy and not looking where he was going, so Allah tests him to see if his imaan remains strong in such an adversity.

but then again (and we can go deeper and deeper but im sure we wont cause we kno better) shaytaan and everything can be stopped by Allah, so it is Allahs will :)

[Snowflake]

^yup, nothing happens without Allah's will. That includes letting us do things wrong with our will. But that doesn't mean Allah wanted us to do it. :p

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^yup, nothing happens without Allah's will. That includes letting us do things wrong with our will. But that doesn't mean Allah wanted us to do it. :p

Agreed, now lets remember WE KNOW BETTER :D

[wilberhum]

Salam
There is proof that the AIDS virus was man-made by the CIA
Wassalam

Would you mind presenting that proof? :raging:
I though it was done by Muslims. :D

[strider]

Salam
There is proof that the AIDS virus was man-made by the CIA
Wassalam

What proof?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I though it was done by Muslims. :D

i dont blame you :p most muslims seem sooo clean and aids free one is bound to think somethings up haha ;D

[strider]

i dont blame you :p most muslims seem sooo clean and aids free one is bound to think somethings up haha ;D

AIDS doesn't discriminate and as mentioned previously, you don't have to have sex with an infected person to contract it.

[wilberhum]

AIDS doesn't discriminate and as mentioned previously, you don't have to have sex with an infected person to contract it.

It is always good to see intelligent answers to stupid statements.
For some good information see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_origin

[IbnAbdulHakim]

It is always good to see intelligent answers to stupid statements.
For some good information see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_origin

sorry to offend, i guess you didnt see that i was joking... well not really, muslims are amazingly clean in pretty much everything. Toiletry, sexual activities, even dining and sleeping, we have scientifically proven clean ways to do everything (not like we need science, it just helps show the disbelievers that God has indeed shown us the best way)

[Malaikah]

If is was - why would innocent babies/partners get it? Mainly babies who are sin free!? There is a revert sister who is HIV positive. Considering we believe all past sins are forgiven upon reverting, (therefore not punishable) is it feasible to think that the sister is being punished through AIDS?

Like anything else, it is a punishment for some people, and a test for others. My point was relating to the way you made it sounds like, because it originated in apes then therefore it was never meant for humans.

Exactly! And that proves it's not a punishment as it's either acquired innocently or by putting one-self at risk. It's a consequence of human actions. Just like if I play chicken and get hit by a car - consequence of my own carelessness.

How can it be 'acquired innocently' and at the same be a consequence of someone's carelessness?

And that doesn't prove that it isn't a punishment! Since when did punishment have to be self-inflicted? If that were the case then almost nothing would be punishment.

I am referring to the fact that for a virus to have crossed over from animals to humans and as yet has no cure, man has somewhere/somehow crossed the bounderies of what is ethically/morally right. Whether that was professionally or personally, I don't know. But what I am sure of is that, this is precisely the reason why mankind is now suffering.

In other words, they are being punished?? But you have been arguing the whole time that AIDS can't be a punishment!:rollseyes

[Muslim Knight]

Guys, guys. Let's remember that we as Muslims we learn about punishment. We also learn about kiffarah, that is the absolvement of repentant Muslims' sins through calamities.

We have to realize that when punishment comes from Allah, was the society heedless or obedient to Him? Based on the given verses, punishment is only when a person/society is heedless of His warnings not to transgress certain boundaries. Basically, a person is responsible for his own actions. A society is responsible for allowing abominations to occur within it. You reap what you sow.

But what about little cute babies, sinless, who contracted the disease from their parents? I can't find the hadith (I am glad if someone can put forth) but as far as I remember it, Rasulullah once visited an old man suffering from high fever, and the Prophet told him not to worry for it is kiffarah and if he is patient about it his sins will be forgiven. The same can be applied to little babies. I read somewhere about how children below the baligh & mumayyiz age (not yet understand between right and wrong) dying and are considered as shaheed (martyr, granted entry to Paradise).

A secular person's mentality is that everything ends with death. As Muslims I think it is time we get rid of this and realize that life really starts after that.

Same goes for calamities such as volcanoes, storms, hurricanes. A few years back a great tsunami hit the province of Acheh, Indonesia and killed thousands of people and caused great ruin to the city. Yet Acheh was known by religious Muslim Malaysians as the balcony of Makkah because it is the center for Islamic religious studies. People question whether was it a punishment from Allah. If Allah were to punish a heedless society, He would have surely rained down ruin on the center of vice instead. So why Acheh and not Las Vegas, for instance?

It is in His Wisdom that we have to trust. We must remember that there are a lot of things that we don't know. We are here for a reason, that is to worship Him. He tests us with hardship. He caused the tsunami for a lot of reasons. Maybe it was to stabilize our changing environment. Maybe it is te result of our own doing, our pollution and destroying the environment. Maybe He wanted to grant those people who drowned a direct entry to Paradise. Or maybe He wanted to punish them for secret vices that we don't know about. Ultimately, it is in His knowledge, and we are given only a little to know.

What do we, as Muslims, have to do about it? AIDS is sufferable by young and old people, babies, people who accidently got transfused with tainted blood, prostitutes, pious repentant Muslims with dark past, generally anyone. Discussing about other people's sins isn't going to bring us anywhere. It won't make Muslims rich, it won't make us powerful enough to spread da'wah across the globe. I think it is time we stop discussing whose sins are causing AIDS and work together to develop a cure. In the meantime we can educate people about having healthy married life and saying no to promiscuity. That way we as Muslims can become as progressive as we are told to become, as in the Quran.

[Snowflake]

[QUOTE][QUOTE]

Like anything else, it is a punishment for some people, and a test for others. My point was relating to the way you made it sounds like, because it originated in apes then therefore it was never meant for humans.

So babies are either being tested or punished? :? :blind:

How can it be 'acquired innocently' and at the same be a consequence of someone's carelessness?

lol is my English that bad? I said, "And that proves it's not a punishment as it's EITHER acquired innocently OR by putting one-self at risk." How can that be interpreted as you took it?

And that doesn't prove that it isn't a punishment! Since when did punishment have to be self-inflicted? If that were the case then almost nothing would be punishment.In other words, they are being punished?? But you have been arguing the whole time that AIDS can't be a punishment!:rollseyes

I said, "but I believe SOME of what happens to mankind is self-inflicted. :rollseyes
Don't you agree that sometimes we ourselves are responsible for what happens to us? Because if you think AIDS is a punishment and has nothing to do with our actions then you're saying babies are being punished for not having done anything at all!! That doesn't even begin to make sense.

It's like Hell is a place of punishment. The punishment is there, it exists. But it's the result of our own actions that we bring that punishment upon ourselves. That is what I am saying about AIDS. It exists, but humans have brought it upon themselves.

[Natural]

Even so, some people are immune to HIV, even if their partner has it..:muddlehea
:w:

I saw a news story on that. Women were exposed to HIV/AIDS through unprotected sex over and over and NEVER developed HIV/AIDS. People from all over the world were making offers to them for some of their blood in hopes of being cured themselves.

[AHMED_GUREY]

Top Class Post.

Top class brother :thumbs_up

[Malaikah]

:sl:

Just wanted to add... when Allah swt destroyed 'Ad, Thamud and the People of Lut, He didn't spare anyone, not even the kids... therefore I don't think the argument that kids get AIDS too can be used to as an evidence...

[Snowflake]

:sl:

Just wanted to add... when Allah swt destroyed 'Ad, Thamud and the People of Lut, He didn't spare anyone, not even the kids... therefore I don't think the argument that kids get AIDS too can be used to as an evidence...

again the People of Lut brought the punishment upon themselves. It's not like they were doing nothing wrong and Allah decided to punish them for no reason. They were responsible for their own fate. Just like humans are for bringing aids into their society and are now suffering as a result of it.


Besides, when it comes to illness, we muslims believe it is a blessing, since it expiates sins. Can we then truly say that muslims with AIDS are being punished or are they being delivered of their sins?

Also since we believe that all sins are forgiven upon reverting, is it logical to think that the sister I mentioned is being punished with AIDS - meaning her sins haven't been forgiven? It's hers or someone else's fault that she is suffering. As far as Allah is concerned, He has forgiven her.

Allah has given mankind instructions on how to live on earth. Isn't that partly to protect man from the evil that is out there? Then when man defies His laws and find himself in the midst of suffering, he has no one to blame but himself. Man is doing a pretty good job of punishing himself.

[Malaikah]

Where did I even say it was a punishment FULL STOP? I already said it is a punishment for some people and a test for others, like everything else.

[Joe98]

AIDS is a punishment from Almighty Allah ………………


Egypt and the people of Pharoah were punished with numerous plagues for their rejection of the message of Prophet Moses

In December 2004 the tsunami killed many thousands.

In Indonesia, the tsunami did most damage in a place called Ache.

Ache is the province where the people have taken up arms against Indonesia so that they can have an independent state and practice sharia law.

I agree that the tsunami was punishment because the people rejected Allah’s message.

-

[Muslim Knight]

:sl:

Just wanted to add... when Allah swt destroyed 'Ad, Thamud and the People of Lut, He didn't spare anyone, not even the kids... therefore I don't think the argument that kids get AIDS too can be used to as an evidence...

Sometimes I admire sister Malaikah for her brilliant posts. I do regret when it comes to we have disagreeing points.

The story of those qawm serves as reminder to us all. Which is why the Quran asks us many times, afala ta'qilun, afala yatafakkarun, will you not reflect, will you not use your intellect. But in no way we can use those verses to condemn others (of our days) that they are being punished by Allah.

'Ad, Thamud and the People of Lut were destroyed utterly that none of them remained today. However, the people of our times have done the same kinds of sins many times over. By right we should have been destroyed completely by waves of calamity. By Mercy of Allah, we still remain here for some purpose. Let us pray that it is not to lead us astray.

It is we who have take note of the warnings in those verses and take care not to repeat their mistakes and transgressions. Condemning others to hell and saying they are being punished reflects our own heedlessness to the adab that is required of us.

[Malaikah]

In December 2004 the tsunami killed many thousands.

In Indonesia, the tsunami did most damage in a place called Ache.

Ache is the province where the people have taken up arms against Indonesia so that they can have an independent state and practice sharia law.

I agree that the tsunami was punishment because the people rejected Allah’s message.

Wow, don't be so hasty there to expose your ignorance. :rollseyes

Different calamities have different reasons behind them.

Didn't you know that a Muslim who dies by drowning is a martyr? Straight to paradise.:statisfie

Also, do not pretend to know Allah's reason for doing anything other than what He has already told us. He told us why He punished Pharoah, He didn't tell us why He causes the tsunami.

[Malaikah]

Sometimes I admire sister Malaikah for her brilliant posts. I do regret when it comes to we have disagreeing points.

:sl:

lol :uuh:

The story of those qawm serves as reminder to us all. Which is why the Quran asks us many times, afala ta'qilun, afala yatafakkarun, will you not reflect, will you not use your intellect. But in no way we can use those verses to condemn others (of our days) that they are being punished by Allah.

I never did, I just said that the argument that AIDS is not a punishment can not be debunked based on the fact that kids get AIDS too, because there have been things that happened in the psat that we know for fact were punishments, but they didn't spare kids either.

'Ad, Thamud and the People of Lut were destroyed utterly that none of them remained today. However, the people of our times have done the same kinds of sins many times over. By right we should have been destroyed completely by waves of calamity. By Mercy of Allah, we still remain here for some purpose. Let us pray that it is not to lead us astray.

Ameen.

It is we who have take note of the warnings in those verses and take care not to repeat their mistakes and transgressions. Condemning others to hell and saying they are being punished reflects our own heedlessness to the adab that is required of us.

But I never said that, my point is that for some people, AIDS is a punishment, and for others it is test... like everythign else!!

[Muslim Knight]

But I never said that, my point is that for some people, AIDS is a punishment, and for others it is test... like everythign else!!

Whoa sis, sabr! sabr! I'm not saying that you did say, it wasn't a refutation. It's me spilling out my thoughts.

Punishment or blessing in disguise, only that person and his/her God can know that.


http://www.islamicboard.com/679462-post104.html

[Joe98]

He told us why He punished Pharoah, He didn't tell us why He causes the tsunami.

He has not told us why he punished anybody for the last 1,400 years. Why is that?

Why would he tell us the reason for various punishments and for 1,400 years remain silent?

We athiests know this is poof that there is no g_d.

-

[Malaikah]

Wow. What sophisticated proof.

Could it be because we already know all we need?:rollseyes Or because only a Messenger of God can deliver these messages to us?

The argument is horribly baseless...

[Muslim Knight]

He has not told us why he punished anybody for the last 1,400 years. Why is that?

Quran is the Last Revelation.

Why would he tell us the reason for various punishments and for 1,400 years remain silent?

The Message was delivered and it is up to us to listen or not. In addition to that He told us that the End is near. It is exactly His plan.

We athiests know this is poof that there is no g_d.
-

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Woodrow]

Why and how aids came about is no longer a concern to any specific group. The real fact is it is now found in all groups and continues to spread. It is no longer only an STD it is transmitted in ways other than sexual contact.

A sad thing about it is that now a person can be born with it. Show no symptoms for many years and live to pass it on to a Husband or Wife unknowingly.

Why mankind was given this trial I do not know. I do not even know if it is a punishment or a gift. All I know is it is here and that we all need to do what we can to keep it in control.