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One Man Army
03-10-2007, 06:18 PM
Can a muslim brother please post quotations of the Quran that demonstrate unexplainable love, or any sort of love for Allah, or people on the path of Allah, or anything along those lines?
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-10-2007, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by ultimate truth
Can a muslim brother please post quotations of the Quran that demonstrate unexplainable love, or any sort of love for Allah, or people on the path of Allah, or anything along those lines?
heres one i love

Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

003.031
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-10-2007, 07:21 PM
"... God loves the doers of justice." {Holy Qur'an 60:8}


"... God loves those who are fair (and just). " {Holy Qur'an 49.009}


" On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will (Allah) Most
Gracious bestow love. " {Holy Qur'an 19:96}


"...God loveth those who make themselves pure. " {Holy Qur'an 9:108}


"... For God loves those who put their trust (in Him). " {Holy Qur'an 3:159}

"It may be that God will ordain love between you and those of them with whom ye are at enmity. Allah is Mighty, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. " {Holy
Qur'an 60:7}


" And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among
yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love
and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect. "
{Holy Qur'an 30:21}


"...for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His
Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and
He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye
may be guided. " {Holy Qur'an 3:103}


" And He is the Forgiving, the Loving, " {Holy Qur'an 85:14}
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- Qatada -
03-10-2007, 07:40 PM
:salamext:


God loves: the charitable (2:195; 3:134);

the righteous, those who fulfill obligations (3:76; 5:93);

the steadfast (3:146);

the good doers (3:148);

those who trust Him (3:159);


the benevolent (5:13);

those who purify themselves (9:108);

the equitable (5:42); the just (49:9);

those who are clean (2:222);

and those who fight in his cause united in one column, like bricks in one wall (61:4).




God loves: the repenters (2:222);

those who love GOD and follow GOD's messenger,

those who obey GOD and His messenger (please read 3:31- 32);

those who love GOD (5:54);

believe and lead a righteous life (see 19:96).


:)
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-10-2007, 07:49 PM
At least in every verse, it will say along the lines of The Benificient the Merciful, the Most Forgiving, the Most Gracious etc. Doesnt that tell u a lot? I think it does.
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NoName55
03-10-2007, 08:35 PM
Allah is Forgiveness

2:182, 2:192, 2:235, 4:23, 4:25, 4:43

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Joe98
03-11-2007, 06:03 AM
Originally Posted by NoName
Allah is Forgiveness


What kinds of things does he forgive?
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DAWUD_adnan
03-11-2007, 08:10 AM
everything, including creatures like you who are now living in His forgivness.,.... eventhough you don´t love Him... He gives you Life everyday
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Joe98
03-11-2007, 11:06 AM
If he forgives then why does he also punish?


-
Reply

SnOwY
03-11-2007, 11:11 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
If he forgives then why does he also punish?


-
Greetings.
he forgives but he also knows the intention, he punishes people who intend to do it or there intention is to the bad stuff alonmg with satan telling them to do it.
i g2g now bye
Reply

lyesh
03-11-2007, 11:15 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
If he forgives then why does he also punish?


-
if he doesnt punish... how will the believer's in him get justice???
Reply

- Qatada -
03-11-2007, 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
If he forgives then why does he also punish?


-

On the authority of Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) say: Allah the Almighty said:

O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great at it.

It was related by at-Tirmidhi (also by Ahmad ibn Hanbal). Its chain of authorities is sound.



Allaah will even forgive the person who worshipped others besides Allaah, so long as the person gives up on these other deities and turns in full submission to their Creator.

Them, if they turn to Allaah in sincere repentance and ascribe no partners to Him, He is prepared to forgive them in this world and the hereafter, and He has for them a great reward.


Those who He will not forgive are those who associate partners with Him (whether these partners are desires which make them turn away from God's obedience, or any other deity besides their own Creator) - and those who die in that state, they are liable to the punishment of Allaah.

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Umar001
03-11-2007, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
If he forgives then why does he also punish?


-
Hi,

Maybe the question should be 'what does he forgive and what does he punish' Because saying 'if he forgives then why does he also punish' would be overlooking how the forgiveness and punishment are applied and to whom they are applied.
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One Man Army
03-11-2007, 04:10 PM
you have given me quotes such asif you do this, allah will love you. the type of love i want to be shown from the Quran is what i see in The Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee:

With loving faith, I am attached to my Beloved; I cannot survive without Him, even for an instant.
He is permeating and pervading my mind and body, O Nanak, with intuitive ease. ||1||
My Friend has taken me by the hand; He has been my best friend, lifetime after lifetime.
He has made me the slave of His feet; O Nanak, my consciousness is filled with love for God

My mind longs for the Blessed Vision of the Guru's Darshan.
It cries out like the thirsty song-bird.
My thirst is not quenched, and I can find no peace, without the Blessed Vision of the Beloved Saint. ||1||
I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to the Blessed Vision of the Beloved Saint Guru. ||1||Pause||
Your Face is so Beautiful, and the Sound of Your Words imparts intuitive wisdom.
It is so long since this rainbird has had even a glimpse of water.
Blessed is that land where You dwell, O my Friend and Intimate Divine Guru. ||2||
I am a sacrifice, I am forever a sacrifice, to my Friend and Intimate Divine Guru. ||1||Pause||
When I could not be with You for just one moment, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga dawned for me.
When will I meet You, O my Beloved Lord?
I cannot endure the night, and sleep does not come, without the Sight of the Beloved Guru's Court. ||3||
I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to that True Court of the Beloved Guru. ||1||Pause||
By good fortune, I have met the Saint Guru.
I have found the Immortal Lord within the home of my own self.
I will now serve You forever, and I shall never be separated from You, even for an instant. Servant Nanak is Your slave, O Beloved Master. ||4||
I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice; servant Nanak is Your slave, Lord. ||Pause||1||8||


If only someone would come, and lead me to meet my Darling Beloved; I would sell myself to him. ||1||
I long for the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan.
When the Lord shows Mercy unto me, then I meet the True Guru; I meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||Pause||
If You will bless me with happiness, then I will worship and adore You. Even in pain, I will meditate on You. ||2||
Even if You give me hunger, I will still feel satisfied; I am joyful, even in the midst of sorrow. ||3||
I would cut my mind and body apart into pieces, and offer them all to You; I would burn myself in fire. ||4||
I wave the fan over You, and carry water for You; whatever You give me, I take. ||5||
Poor Nanak has fallen at the Lord's Door; please, O Lord, unite me with Yourself, by Your Glorious Greatness. ||6||
Taking out my eyes, I place them at Your Feet; after travelling over the entire earth, I have come to understand this. ||7||
If You seat me near You, then I worship and adore You. Even if You beat me and drive me out, I will still meditate on You. ||8||
If people praise me, the praise is Yours. Even if they slander me, I will not leave You. ||9||
If You are on my side, then anyone can say anything. But if I were to forget You, then I would die. ||10||
I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to my Guru; falling at His Feet, I surrender to the Saintly Guru. ||11||
Poor Nanak has gone insane, longing for the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan. ||12||
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NoName55
03-11-2007, 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by ultimate truth
you have given me quotes such asif you do this, allah will love you.
becacause you asked "Can a muslim brother please post quotations of the Quran that demonstrate unexplainable love, or any sort of love for Allah, or people on the path of Allah, or anything along those lines?"

the type of love i want to be shown from the Quran is what i see in The Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee:
Quran is not Guru Granth

Had I wanted to learn Guru Granth, I would have gone to a sikh forum, now this looks like a blatant advert for sikhism to me

peace
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- Qatada -
03-11-2007, 04:37 PM
Ultimate ^ according to your faith, a person can't be with God if they don't fulfill the conditions. It is also similar in islaam, except we believe that those who submit to God and do good to please Him, they will be rewarded whereas you guys believe you will become god, which doesn't even make sense because it makes it seem as if God's unperfect, and if that is the case - then that isn't God, because God is perfect.
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-11-2007, 05:16 PM
ultimate truth, you require writing to express love? I dont think you realise that the tiniest good deed is soo beloved by Allah,

If a man was to lose his camel, and grieve all night whilst searching over the loss of his camel in a wide desert and then he finds his camel and utters accidentally out of happiness "oh Allah you are my slave and i am your lord" when he should have said "oh Allah you are my lord and i am your slave" and yet Allah is more happy and loves the servant more when his servant makes repentance to him.

Mr sikh dude, you must realise the actions of the muslim are pure love, read about the prophets and the companions, it is nothing but love, everything, the whole abstinence and strife is love. And those few words of the Quran which (are quite a lot but i say few anyway because its straight to the point) truelly can be felt when one is in a state of pure love for Allah.
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Joe98
03-11-2007, 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by lyesh
if he doesnt punish... how will the believer's in him get justice???

This is the same as I asked. To say it yet another way:


If G-d is merciful and he does not punish, how do believers get justice?

-
Reply

NoName55
03-12-2007, 12:33 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
This is the same as I asked. To say it yet another way:


If G-d is merciful and he does not punish, how do believers get justice?

-
First of all greetings
If you want to mock then I have no answers but if you are sincere then if
you want christian version click Mercy

If, however, you want to see Islaamic version please read this article in its
entirety before coming up with the usual one liner or I shan't reply. Peace,
may Allah guide us to the truth!

---------------------------------------------------------------
God does not love The world
Written by Yusuf Estes
Monday, 12 June 2006
in reply to
"you indicate that the crucifixion of Jesus can not be in concordance
with Divine Justice, because God will never punish an innocent for
the sins of somebody else. Yet let me ask you someting: when
somebody's child does something wrong, aren't the parents in
great grief, because they love the child?"

Bismillah Rahman Raheem
ISLAM TOMORROW - Q. & A.
Free Service Provided by ISLAM TOMORROW.COM

NOTICE: WE DO NOT OFFER FATAWAH (Religious Rulings).
Matters needing fatwah must be redirected to other scholars.
"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision."
Quran [33:36]
__


Question[s]:

Dear Sheik Yusuf,Thank you for answering so fast to my e-mail -as I know you have a full schedule, and the day has 24 hours for you as well.

You answered me that Allah would never punish somebody for somebody else's wrong.

I agree with that: God is just, no doubts about that.

However, if I understand well your answer, you indicate that the crucifixion of Jesus can not be in concordance with Divine Justice, because God will never punish an innocent for the sins of somebody else.

Yet let me ask you someting: when somebody's child does something wrong, aren't the parents in great grief, because they love the child?

Suppose the parents are righteous people and they teach the child the right path, yet the child goes astray somehow. Is there the fault of the parents?

I do not think so. So why do they suffer?

I think that they suffer for the child, because thay love him. In Christianity, I have been told that the Lord loves His creation. I do not know if you agree with me on this point. I know that the Coran states that Allah is Merciful and Mercy-Giving, yet I do not know whether He loves the creation.

Yet if God loves the people of this world, even when they turn their back to Him, then God may suffer too (if you allow this unsuccessful comparison- will suffer as a parent suffers when the children turn away). Therefore I would reply to you that indeed, God would never punish somebody for somebody else's wrong, yet we can make God 'suffer' by our disbelief and our actions.

While Divine Justice ensures that nobody will be punished for somebody else's actions, the Lord can be afflicted by our sins.

Thank you again, I really apeciate the time that you spend on me.
__


Answer(s): - Bismillah Rahman Raheem. Al Hamdulilah Rabbil Alameen was salat was Salam ala rasool al Kareem. Maa ba'ad.
Allah 'Alim.
Allah has all Knowledge. Thank you for your question.

Bismillah Rahman Raheem

Greetings:

You are right. It is rare that I have such an opportunity to write for extended amounts of time like this. You see this morning I had few hours before going to do the Friday services for the Muslims in the university there in Montreal. And now I am back here in Washington, DC at my home computer writing to you again. But don't count on this happening again. This is very rare for me. Anyway, here goes and I hope that you can follow along with me on this. I pray that you can.

OK. First you are correct. You understood exactly what I said. But the argument that you are bringing is not in keeping with the teachings of the Bible. The Bible states:

"Spare the rod and you spoil the child."

Do you see that God Almighty has instructed the followers of Moses and the Jews to use the stick to punish the children.

It is clear from the many examples given in the Bible that Almighty God has no problem in punishing the wicked and evil doers. I fail to see why anyone who reads the Bible could overlook such an important teaching.

As regards whether or not Almighty God loves His creation, the answer is *No*.

This is clear from the teachings in the Old Testament and in the Quran. It is only in the New Testament that you find things like, "For God so loved the world..."

In fact, if He loved it, He would not allow many things to happen as He does. This place, our universe and in particular, our planet are all a part of the great creation of Almighty God to do what? What is it that Almighty God is doing with us every day? It is the same thing that He has been doing with all of the humans since the beginning. What is it?

He also does not "suffer" as a result of our shortcomings and evil. He is never affected by His Creation. This is preposterous. He is far above and beyond these human failings. He is God. The real One and Only God.

And we do not compare Almighty God to anything that He created, for He is Glorified far above what they are trying to attribute to Him.

You tried to bring in a story of parents and their children. God is not a Father, nor are we His "children." The correct word or more appropriate meaning of the word "son" in this case would be "servant" or perhaps "worshipper", not "son" or "daughter" or "child." You can verify this is the dictionary of Strong's Concordance, by the way. I did.

Even in the case of the parents that you mentioned, have you ever heard of parents who either beat themselves or some innocent child because they loved their (bad) child so much and did not want to punish him? That is sick. And you are not talking here about beating or hitting; you are talking about murder.

What kind of front page headlines would that be for parents that murdered each other or someone else's child, because their own child was bad and they just couldn't stand the suffering they were feeling while the child was being bad?

Come on. Let us try to keep our brains in our heads while we are thinking here.

Think of Adam, peace be upon him. He was in the Paradise. His wife was there with him. They were told that they could eat of anything there in the Paradise. And they did.

But they were also told not to eat of a specific fruit. Did they do it?

Yes.

Why?

Because they had to in order for everything to be like it is.

Let me clarify for you. Almighty God always is in complete and total control. There is never a time when He is asleep or not paying attention to all that He has created. So He knows in advance everything that is going to happen and all of this that we call the universe and everything in it is under His control.

He did not have to put the fruit in there with Adam, peace be upon him, right?

He did not have to let the devil tempt them, right?

He did not have to kick them out of the Paradise as He did, right?

Of course.

So, why in fact, did Almighty God create everything?

It is for us.

It is a test.

Adam passed his test.

Eve passed her test.

How?

They were created to be human, not gods. So naturally, they are like you and I in the fact that they are weak and they do things that are wrong and even sinful.

Do you acknowledge that all of us are sinners? I do.

So how is it that I say that Adam and Eve PASSED their test?

After all, they ate from the fruit of the forbidden tree. That was bad. Right?

They did it.

What the Bible has lost is the true moral to the story. Others came along later and began to try to make a totally different meaning out it, even blaming Eve for the first sin and for influencing Adam to do the same. And then suddenly she is going to be punished with the affliction of menstrual periods and child birth and all of this is her punishment. Adam, according to the Biblical account is tossed out of the Paradise because of this sin, along with Eve.

According to Islam, the story is pretty close, but with the true moral understanding and teachings.

All along Almighty God was going to put them out of the Paradise into the earth so that they could be tested.

The real test was not whether or not they would eat the fruit. The real test is what they would do after they ate the fruit.

Repentance is the word that we are looking for here. After Adam and Eve were put out of the Paradise (near the Holy Land), Adam went one way and Eve wound up going some other way. They did not see each other for a while.

Adam, peace be upon him, repented and placed his head down on the ground on a place that became a historic land mark from that time forward. Do you know where that is?

Bakkah.

Today it is called Makkah, and it is in the Arabian Peninsula.

Adam put his head down on the ground and prayed to Almighty God to forgive him for he realized that he had really done more than eat forbidden fruit. The fact is that he had disobeyed Almighty God and that is the worst thing. He knew now that he had to do something for what he had done. So, he prostrated to Almighty God.

God accepted from him.

The story of Eve is the same. She disobeyed and she also repented to Almighty God.

Almighty God accepted her repentance as well.

Then Adam and Eve met each other in a place that is near Bakkah (Makkah in Saudi Arabia) called Arafat.

By the way, another mistake that many people make is to believe that the devil is a "fallen angel." This does not make any sense at all. After all there is no power in the universe except the One Almighty God. Right?

So how could the devil have been an angel and then suddenly go against God's Will?

The devil is actually from the earlier "people" before humans, known as "jinn" (our word "genie" comes from this).

The angels are made from pure light and so you cannot see them with the normal eye.

The jinn are made from a "smokeless fire."

The humans are made from the clay or dirt of the earth.

The one we call the devil, was from the "jinn."

When he observed that Allah had made a new kind of creation and He was ordering everyone to bow down to it due to it being the "Best of Allah's Creation."

This really bothered the jinn that we call the devil is that he was no longer the preferred favourite of Almighty God.

He was jealous. And that destroys us from the very moment that we begin to practice it.

Almighty God ordered all of His creation to "bow down" due to the creation of Adam, peace be upon him.

The Devil (Iblees) refused to obey Almighty God, and as a result Almighty God ordered him to go to Hell for what he had done. That was before Adam or Eve had even had life in them.

From the Islamic perspective, we are all here on this earth as a test. This is not our Paradise and it is far more like a prison where we must be careful of what we say and do for everything will have its consequences.

Almighty God tells us that He has only created us to worship, praise and devote ourselves to Him and to do so without making any partners with Him in devotion or worship. Those who make sins are to repent to Him and to seek for His Forgiveness and to ask for His Mercy. And He says that He does not forgive setting up partners with Him in worship (the First Commandment) but anything less than that He can forgive.

Over all picture:

Allah created the heavens and earth and all that is in the universe only to test us (although He already knows what the outcome will be, before He even created us. The test is not for Him.

It is a test for us.

He will have to deal with what we have done on the Day of Judgment. There can be no second opinion on this one. Each and every person will see anything that he has done that is good, even an atom's weight of good and the same for doing even an atom's weight of bad, we will all see it then.

All the prophets, peace be upon them, taught the same message: "Worship God alone without any partners."

But people are weak, very weak. So before long they will begin to worship something else, unless you really keep them focused on Almighty God and don't let them stray away.

Reference the story of the followers of Moses, peace be upon him, when he was up in the mountain receiving the tablets from Almighty God, what happened?

They built a calf out of their gold and then began to worship it. This is why they had to wonder for 40 years in the wilderness, for the crime of worshipping other than the Almighty God.

The Pharisees at the time of Jesus, peace be upon him, had also corrupted the message and were out there selling and buying money because they told people that they could not buy anything for the sacrifices with money from Rome or any other government. It had to be their money. They were called "money changers."

What did Jesus, peace be upon him, do (according to what you have in the Bible)?

He took a whip and drove them out.

Now if he is so compassionate and can't stand to punish the evil doers, what does this story mean?

The New Testament says that Jesus went to a tree to get some fruit to eat from it, but he found it barren and without fruit, so he cursed the tree. Does this sound like Almighty God to you?
God has to eat?
God doesn't know which trees have fruit and which ones don't?
God gets angry at the tree?
God curses the tree?
And you said that "God so loved the world..." (except for certain trees).

By the way, he cursed the Pharisees too and he said they did not have enough righteousness to even enter Paradise.

And then what about his statement, according to the Bible, that says he ordered them to sell their cloaks and coats and buy swords?

And at Gethsemene when the Roman soldiers and the Rabbis from the San Hedrin came and tried to capture them and fighting broke out and they actually cut off the ear of one of the servants of a leader. These were Jews from the Jewish faith at that time.

Wouldn't it be a bit hypocritical to blame and punish certain people and then claim that you can't punish people because you just "love them too much"?

Finally, now let us go back to the story of the person who really did go to the cross. The one who "looked like" Jesus.

There is a name that is in the Arabic and Aramaic language that is pronounced "tau-aam." When it was taken into the Koine Greek (after Jesus time) and later on into the Latin, that became known as "Thomas." This word means "twin" or "look alike." (You can look this up in a name dictionary -- that is how I learned it).

The name of the one who sold Jesus out for thirty pieces of silver was what? - Judas Iscariot. Right?

Did you know that he had a nickname? I have a book of apocrypha that mentions his full name with the nickname in it.

Can you guess what it was?

Judas THOMAS Iscariot.

What is the big deal? That shows you that he "looked like" someone.

Who do you think he looked like?

Remember, he told the Romans that he would go to the one that was Jesus and kiss him to indicate to them who he was. When this took place what happened next? The ground trembled and shook and the curtain on the temple was torn in two and everyone fell down on the ground. When they got up, they grabbed the one that they thought was "Jesus" and took him in custody.

When they asked him questions, he was no longer able to give the kinds of answers that they were used to hearing from him and when they asked who he was, he would answer by saying, "That is what you say about me."

For sure, God Almighty is Just, Fair and Merciful. He would never punish anyone for the sins of another; especially someone who loved Almighty God so much, and had prayed in tears and sweat to "Let this cup pass from me. Even so, Thy will be done."

And finally, what are the words that come from the mouth of the one on the cross just as he is dying? "Eli! Eli! Lama sabach thani?" The translation is put in brackets for us to see for ourselves. (My God! My God! Why has Thou forsaken me?) This is outright blasphemy. Who could say such a thing? This person is not happy with the "plan of salvation" that everyone is so quick to jump on and hope it works. This person is distraught with his condition and he is blaming his God.

Now consider this again; if Jesus, peace be upon him, went to the Garden of Gethsemene with his companions and posted them to be on the lookout so that he could pray and beg Almighty God to let this thing pass from him, but Almighty God would not accept his prayers, would not spare him this humiliation and torture and even death; then what hope would we have in front of God on the Day of Judgment.

If God Almighty loves the earth as much as you say, and He loves us so much, and He loved Jesus so much, then what difference does it make to Him which one of the things that He loves so much, that He is willing to destroy one of them for the other?

The whole idea is bizarre.

The Justice and Mercy of Almighty God are very much served in the version of the cross mentioned in the Quran. Someone who "looked like him" (the hypocrite, Judas Thomas Iscariot) goes to the cross instead. Didn't the Bible mention that he was "hanged on a tree?" (It also contradicts that statement in another gospel, saying that he fell off a cliff and burst into flames).

I agree with you in all that you said. God is Merciful. God is Just. God is Fair. These are the very attributes that He names Himself with in the Quran. And He is the LOVING GOD. That is in the Quran. But He clearly tells us what it is that He Loves and what it is that He hates. And He does hate that anyone set up anything or anyone in partnership with Him in worship. That is the first commandment in the Old Testament and it is the same in the New Testament.

Read Mark 12:28-30
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

This is the exact meaning of the "Shahadah" or testimony of faith in Islam: "There is no god worthy of any devotion or worship, except the One True God Almighty."

Let us now come to the final conclusion to this matter and discover what makes this such a popular notion with people.

All of us are sinners and we all agree to that. All of us know that we are unworthy to inherit the Kingdom of God that is in Islam as well.

The prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, also taught the very same concept as did Jesus, peace be upon him. He told his companions that none would enter into the Paradise except by the Grace of Almighty God. He was preaching the message of salvation by Grace.

They asked him, even you, O messenger of God?"

He said, "Yes. Even me."

What is the Grace and how do we get it?

By knowing that there really is only One God and that He alone is worthy of all of our devotion, love, praise and thanks. And by repenting to Him and saying that we are truly sorry for what we have done and then making sacrifices for His sake and obeying Him even if it means that we might not get to do our own will, but rather we are doing His Will instead.

But the method for salvation in Islam (repentance and obedience and sacrifice) is not acceptable to most of the people. They much prefer a short cut. Anything. As long as they can continue to do the things that they want to do and then feel like that somehow they are going to be automatically and completely forgiven, then that is good enough.

Now I'm going to say something strange to you Mihai, I'm going to tell you to go back and read your Bible. Really.

But this time, pray to God (direct, not to Jesus) and ask Him to open your heart and your mind to His Words in that Book. Some of it is still there, even though many have tried to change and corrupt it. Go back and read it again. But when you see something that is definitely contradictory to the teachings of the Old Testament and absolutely against any common sense, leave that part out of your formula.

If you want to have some idea of what the Quran has in it, you are welcome to write to me and I'll arrange for one to be delivered to you. It might be that you already have one and maybe you would like to look in it for some ideas. It is up to you. The whole story of your life and your walk with God, is all up to you. We have nothing for sale here. If you come to Islam, there is no promise of anything other than a chance to try to be one who worships Almighty God without any partners. If you are successful in that, then He will reward you and forgive your sins and grant you His Paradise. But it is all up to Him in the final analysis.

In closing I would like to mention a few points:

Islam is wide open and you are free to ask any questions that you like.
You do not have to accept the statement, "Just believe. It is a matter of faith. Don't question."
Islam has proofs to back up its statements. The Quran and teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him, are all preserved in tact and in the memories of over 9 million people.
The proofs are available to everyone.
There is no clergy in Islam or any hierarchy to deal with. We are all the same in front of Allah.
Faith works side by side with proof so that your mind and heart are never at odds with each other.
Nobody has the right to hear your confessions of sins and mistakes, except Almighty God. And only He can forgive them.
No human can guarantee that someone will enter Paradise or Hell.
No one can make up some worship for himself or for others and then expect that Almighty God has to accept that from them.
There is no compulsion in Islam. If you want to worship God on His terms, then you are welcome as a brother in faith. If not, that is your choice.
No one can carry the burden of another's sins or guilt.
None shall be asked (much less punished) about the sins of another.
Every atom's weight of good and every atom's weight of evil is recorded.

Any good is from Allah & the mistakes were from myself.
Please pray for me and ask Allah to Forgive me. May Allah guide all of us to His Truth, ameen.
Salam alaykum - Yusuf Estes
National Muslim Chaplain


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AvarAllahNoor
03-12-2007, 01:26 AM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Ultimate ^ according to your faith, a person can't be with God if they don't fulfill the conditions. It is also similar in islaam, except we believe that those who submit to God and do good to please Him, they will be rewarded whereas you guys believe you will become god, which doesn't even make sense because it makes it seem as if God's unperfect, and if that is the case - then that isn't God, because God is perfect.
You do not become God! - Different people have their own perceptions, but if you want to clarify what happens, and how a Sikh obtains salvation please begin a new thread and all will become clear, without a doubt. :)

Gur Fateh
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Joe98
03-12-2007, 01:50 AM
The question is: If somebody commits a crime and G-d is merciful, how does the victim of the crime receive justice?

Your Islamic answer can be summarised: “G-d will not punish somebody for somebody else’s sins”

The Christian answer you linked to can be summarised: “If a person believes and repents he will be forgiven”

And further up in this thread, there is a comment which can be summarised “If a person stops worshiping the wrong G-d and worships Allah, Allah will show mercy.

None of these answer the question.
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*charisma*
03-12-2007, 02:57 AM
If he forgives then why does he also punish?
If G-d is merciful and he does not punish, how do believers get justice?
He forgives the Muslims that ask for forgiveness. Allah is merciful to those that believe in Him. If you don't believe in Him and his Message, then you will be one of those that are punished, hence this is one of the reasons why punishment is needed. We are not perfect, and we are made to be sinful so that we repent and kill our arrogance.

The question is: If somebody commits a crime and G-d is merciful, how does the victim of the crime receive justice?
Through sincere repetance of that particular sin.

On the day of Judgement, our deeds are weighed and our sins are weighed. There may be sins that we have not repented for, as we do not keep track of what we have sinned and what we have repented for. For someone to be forgiven for everything, he would have to repent for every single sin. Would you be able to remember every sin that you have commited from the day you hit puberty? Would you also be able to know which sins Allah forgave you for and which He didn't? There are even times that we are unaware where Allah will forgive all of our sins, but yet we are still commanded to repent.

Many a times, when one sins, lets say they commited zina (unlawful sex), they will repent for having unlawful intercourse, but they may forget all the sinning that led up to that, e.g. lowering the gaze, dressing modestly, being alone with a nonmahrem, etc.

The second way we are judged, is by our intentions:

Narrated ‘Abdullâh bin ‘Abbâs : Allah’s Messenger said that Allah the Glorious said, “Verily, Allah has ordered that the good and the bad deeds be written down. Then He explained it clearly how (to write):He who intends to do a good deed and he does not do it, then Allah records it for him as a full good deed, but if he carries out his intention, the Glorious and the Great Allah writes it down for him with Him as from ten to seven hundred times, and even many times more. But if he intends to do an evil act and has not done it, then Allah writes it down with Him as a full good deed, but if he intends it and has done it, Allah writes it down as one bad deed. (Al-Bukhâri and Muslim)

Punishment is also a drive to repent, like a warning. It reminds us that we are not perfect and that we will be punished for our sins. If always kept in thought that Allah is just merciful and He will forgive us for our sins, then we will continue to commit sins? right? Among believing that Allah is merciful, we too have to enstill in our hearts the fear of Allah's punishment and that Allah is also All-Knowing, All-Powerful, and Just.

We are not just punished in the afterlife, we may also be punished during life with tribulations that we are unaware of being a punishment. This may lighten our punishment in the hereafter.

In essence, as Muslims it should be not of importance to know whether we were forgiven for a sin, or rewarded for a deed, but rather that we strive to do the deed and refrain from commiting the sin. Allah is Just so we put our full trust in Him when the day of Judgment arrives.

Remember two things and forget one: Remember Allah and your death; and forget your good deeds. -Luqmaan (radiallahu 'anhu)
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syilla
03-12-2007, 03:07 AM
He forgives the Muslims that ask for forgiveness. Allah is merciful to those that believe in Him. If you don't believe in Him and his Message, then you will be one of those that are punished, hence this is one of the reasons why punishment is needed. We are not perfect, and we are made to be sinful so that we repent and kill our arrogance.
:thumbs_up
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