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wilberhum
03-12-2007, 09:25 PM
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...8BEFEDB5C9.htm

Muslim leaders in Australia have announced plans to form a political party to fight what they say is growing Islamophobia.

Sheikh Taj Aldin al-Hilali, the Mufti of Australia, is leading the drive for the country's 300,000 Muslims to get more involved in politics.

Al-Hilali caused a storm of protest late last year when he described scantily-dressed women as "uncovered meat" and suggested they were inviting rape.
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wilberhum
03-13-2007, 04:15 PM
I guess that I’m the only one who thinks interesting that some one who creates massive anti-Muslim sentiment by referring to women as “meat” is going into politics to combat Islamaphobia.
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Keltoi
03-13-2007, 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I guess that I’m the only one who thinks interesting that some one who creates massive anti-Muslim sentiment by referring to women as “meat” is going into politics to combat Islamaphobia.
There is obviously a certain clash of civilizations at play here. Perhaps if one could actually define "Islamophobia", and separate that definition from those who simply disagree with Muslim beliefs, the word might have more meaning.
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wilberhum
03-13-2007, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
There is obviously a certain clash of civilizations at play here. Perhaps if one could actually define "Islamophobia", and separate that definition from those who simply disagree with Muslim beliefs, the word might have more meaning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamaphobia
Islamophobia is a controversial neologism defined as a prejudice against or demonization of Muslims..

Islamophobia is not simply disagreeing with Muslim beliefs.
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- Qatada -
03-13-2007, 04:41 PM
I think islamophobia is more against islaam more than simply muslims. As those who follow the true authentic Qur'an and Sunnah are attacked, whereas those who try to distort it and follow another way are termed as 'moderate' - so anyone who follows the true way is usually attacked, hence it's attacking islaam. Allaah knows best.
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wilberhum
03-13-2007, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I think islamophobia is more against islaam more than simply muslims. As those who follow the true authentic Qur'an and Sunnah are attacked, whereas those who try to distort it and follow another way are termed as 'moderate' - so anyone who follows the true way is usually attacked, hence it's attacking islaam. Allaah knows best.
I truly don't think Islamophobia has anything to do with any sect.
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- Qatada -
03-13-2007, 04:49 PM
You'll see that they're nearly always attacking the 'Wahabbis' because those who strictly follow the Qur'an and Prophetic way are placed under that label by those people.

So yes, it is specifically those who follow the true way as the Prophet (peace be upon him) himself stated. Those who follow his way, and the way of his companions. :)


Regards.
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Keltoi
03-13-2007, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamaphobia
Islamophobia is a controversial neologism defined as a prejudice against or demonization of Muslims..

Islamophobia is not simply disagreeing with Muslim beliefs.
Perhaps I should elaborate. What I mean to say by "disagreeing" with Muslim belief, is that laws and norms in the West do not recognize many of the cultural norms of many Muslims. Like wearing the veil on driver's licences, for instance. I remember the shouts of "Islamophobia" attached to this situation when the woman was denied the right to do that. I think the word is being used in ways similar to the word racism. You get fired, scream racism. I just wish these words were used more sparingly, so the serious nature of the accusation wouldn't be trivialized.
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Keltoi
03-13-2007, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
You'll see that they're nearly always attacking the 'Wahabbis' because those who strictly follow the Qur'an and Prophetic way are placed under that label by those people.

So yes, it is specifically those who follow the true way as the Prophet (peace be upon him) himself stated. Those who follow his way, and the way of his companions. :)


Regards.
By attacking, do you mean speaking out against them? Is that Islamophobia or a difference in opinion?
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wilberhum
03-13-2007, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
You'll see that they're nearly always attacking the 'Wahabbis' because those who strictly follow the Qur'an and Prophetic way are placed under that label by those people.

So yes, it is specifically those who follow the true way as the Prophet (peace be upon him) himself stated. Those who follow his way, and the way of his companions. :)


Regards.
That would be "Wahabbisophobia". :D
I have never heard anyone who spoke against Muslims identify an sect that they disliked. They just dislike Muslims. Period.
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wilberhum
03-13-2007, 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Perhaps I should elaborate. What I mean to say by "disagreeing" with Muslim belief, is that laws and norms in the West do not recognize many of the cultural norms of many Muslims. Like wearing the veil on driver's licences, for instance. I remember the shouts of "Islamophobia" attached to this situation when the woman was denied the right to do that. I think the word is being used in ways similar to the word racism. You get fired, scream racism. I just wish these words were used more sparingly, so the serious nature of the accusation wouldn't be trivialized.
There will always be those that cry discrimination. There are security reasons for some of the things that Muslims object to. If the law requires a picture ID to secure a privilege, that’s the law. If you want a privilege granted that requires a picture ID, you have a choice. There is nothing Phobic about it.
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strider
03-13-2007, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
By attacking, do you mean speaking out against them? Is that Islamophobia or a difference in opinion?
I agree, Islamophobia needs to be defined properly. Some people are beginning to use it like others who use the race card for every little disgreement they get caught up in.

In principle, a drive to encourage more Muslims to enter the political arena is a great one but having read the article i think both sides involved in this controversy so to speak, have made some ridiculous points.
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Zulkiflim
03-14-2007, 11:47 AM
Salaam,

Alhamdulilah,the Mufti is going the right way.

this is a country where they voted people who want Australia to be WHITE ONLY>.
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- Qatada -
03-14-2007, 12:06 PM
Hi Keltoi.


I mean attacking, that's what's shown on the media and it's labelled under that term, purposelly.

Wilberhum, i've seen it quite alot on the media. :)
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wilberhum
03-14-2007, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Hi Keltoi.


I mean attacking, that's what's shown on the media and it's labelled under that term, purposelly.

Wilberhum, i've seen it quite alot on the media. :)
I’ m sorry; I’m not sure what you are saying.
Would you mind expounding and give a specific example?

Thanks
Wilber
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- Qatada -
03-14-2007, 06:19 PM
It's mainly been mentioned on the BBC, and they purposelly use this term. Obviously it was on an interview in the news, and i can't really prove it because i don't know how to quote a news program which was shown quite a while ago.

But yeah it's common. And if i find something, i'll post it up inshaa Allaah [God willing.]


Regards.
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Fishman
03-14-2007, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
You'll see that they're nearly always attacking the 'Wahabbis' because those who strictly follow the Qur'an and Prophetic way are placed under that label by those people.

So yes, it is specifically those who follow the true way as the Prophet (peace be upon him) himself stated. Those who follow his way, and the way of his companions. :)


Regards.
:sl:
I don't think they just attack Salafis, they are just the most prominent group of religious Muslims. If they saw orthodox Mahdabists or Sufis they would probably attack them too.
:w:
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KAding
03-14-2007, 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I think islamophobia is more against islaam more than simply muslims. As those who follow the true authentic Qur'an and Sunnah are attacked, whereas those who try to distort it and follow another way are termed as 'moderate' - so anyone who follows the true way is usually attacked, hence it's attacking islaam. Allaah knows best.
So anyone that openly disagrees with (and thus attacks) some basic Islamic principles, doctrines and assumptions is an Islamophobe? That would also make me an Islamophobe :-[. Oh well. I'd rather dislike an ideology/doctrine than dislike people. Disliking doctrines is perfectly healthy, disliking people because they follow certain doctrines is much more bigoted and socially disruptive. In short, I'm happy I'm an Islamophobe than, and not a Muslimophobe!
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allah-akbar
03-14-2007, 06:41 PM
:sl:

First of on this topic, i am not going to define islamophobia but on the topic that women who shows their skin asks for rape, I must say that the way it was put in word where women were refered as meat was complete wrong, but the idea on showing skin still remains hanging.

As for as fashion goes, i don't see the point of showing a part of skin other than sexual matter which i not going to get in to and hope that others understand what i mean.

Aswell, note that i have seen quite alot of sources being quote from WIKIPEDIA, i advice you not to use it as you all know that its content is alterable by anyone, so please stay away from wikipedia and rather use a solid source.

:w:
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KAding
03-14-2007, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by allah-akbar
:sl:
Aswell, note that i have seen quite alot of sources being quote from WIKIPEDIA, i advice you not to use it as you all know that its content is alterable by anyone, so please stay away from wikipedia and rather use a solid source.

:w:
Well, wikipedia quite often quotes sources itself. So it is not completely random most of the time.
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allah-akbar
03-14-2007, 06:48 PM
yes, it is not a stable source... it is banned on our school as they found so many wrong information on it.
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KAding
03-14-2007, 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
That would be "Wahabbisophobia". :D
I have never heard anyone who spoke against Muslims identify an sect that they disliked. They just dislike Muslims. Period.
Well, I agree to an extend. The real Islamophobes don't bother distinguishing between sects, they think the religion is fundamentally flawed anyway. But there are many in the West who are indeed referring to ******sm as the supposed evil from Saudi Arabia, which is corrupting the minds of moderate Muslims. It is always accused of funding all kinds of radical new mosques in world wide for example. They do have a point sometimes IMHO, Saudi clerics are generally much more aggressive and hateful of kafirs and the kafir way than those in the West or East.
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- Qatada -
03-14-2007, 06:54 PM
Kading, just because you saw something on the news, it doesn't mean its always true. So please - let's not start delving into that and making this thread into a war-zone too.


Regards.
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Muezzin
03-14-2007, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
So anyone that openly disagrees with (and thus attacks) some basic Islamic principles, doctrines and assumptions is an Islamophobe? That would also make me an Islamophobe :-[. Oh well. I'd rather dislike an ideology/doctrine than dislike people. Disliking doctrines is perfectly healthy, disliking people because they follow certain doctrines is much more bigoted and socially disruptive. In short, I'm happy I'm an Islamophobe than, and not a Muslimophobe!
I'm a phobeophobe. I'm scared of bigots and women called Phoebe. Don't ask why.
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Keltoi
03-15-2007, 02:13 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I'm a phobeophobe. I'm scared of bigots and women called Phoebe. Don't ask why.
Phoebe...glad I'm not the only one. I dated a Phoebe in college.
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KAding
03-15-2007, 10:32 AM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Kading, just because you saw something on the news, it doesn't mean its always true. So please - let's not start delving into that and making this thread into a war-zone too.

Regards.
I wasn't basing myself on "something on the news" though. My impressions where mostly from comparing rulings on Islam-qa.com with those on Islamonline.net. Islam-qa.com tends to attack kafirs all the time and warning Muslims of 'imitating the kafir' and 'befrieding the kafir'. You don't really see stuff like that on Islamonline.net.
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Skillganon
03-15-2007, 11:10 AM
Originally Posted by KAding
I wasn't basing myself on "something on the news" though. My impressions where mostly from comparing rulings on Islam-qa.com with those on Islamonline.net. Islam-qa.com tends to attack kafirs all the time and warning Muslims of 'imitating the kafir' and 'befrieding the kafir'. You don't really see stuff like that on Islamonline.net.
lol. despite one certain generalising and sweeping statements. What the site has to do with anything.

It is true that Islamonline.net is quite different and the target audience is mainly english speaking people.

However you will generally find the same similar prohibition in Islamonline.net about not imitating the kuffar as you will find in islam-qa.

Also you will note that islamonline.net heavily borrows from islam-qa, so it is erronous to think that just because one site mentions it and the other does not, does not mean the former is incorrect and the latter is correct by silence. Also placing due note to the plausible reasons they might not mention it considering their taget audience and their locality.

Anyway as much I will like to engage in rethoric with one, the topics is not about the websites and islamonline.net and islam-qa. So no point in bringing in red-herring.
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