Jesus(as) in Islam

[JesusIsKing]

No.

If your question was "is there any flaws within the muslims themselves?" then the answer would be :

Yes.

I hate to turn the table but....

... is there any flaw in the Christian faith? :)

I was pretty sure i posted back to this message, but no there is no flaw, in the Christian faith, (well the bible which im pretty sure you knew thats what christianity is based off of, but there isnt) and what are your views on Jesus? I am willing to discuss him with you.

[JesusIsKing]

[QUOTE=Fi_Sabilillah;691739]Hey :)




We as muslims believe that Noah, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace be upon them all) were prophets. There have been a total of 124,000 prophets that have come to mankind to call to the worship of Allaah Alone. However, the majority of mankind has fallen astray, because they do believe in a Creator, but they reject the fact that He should be worshipped alone.

Lets touch on this You use Jesus in this as a prophet, Jesus claimed to be God many times, but can someone be a prophet in Islam and claim to be God at the same time?

[Woodrow]

I moved these posts over to their own thread in this section as the Discover Islam section is not meant to be for debate.

[Woodrow]

Isa(Jesus)(as) is covered in much more detail in the Qur'an than He is in the Bible. There is much more said about him and all of the miracles Allah(swt) performed through him are acknowledged along with some that are not mentioned in the Bible.

You will find that many of us here are reverts and had at one time been Christian.

Speaking only for myself, although I think others will agree.

When I was Christian I met Isa(as), but it was as a Muslim I truly accepted Isa(as) as we are meant to accept Him and learned to Love him deeply and not love the myths I had been taught about Him. To truly learn and meet the real Jesus(as) will set you free and let you love and worship God(swt) as we are meant to.

My prayers are that you too will be set free from the myths and become a true servant of the Lord and worship God(swt) with the Fullness we are intended to were created for.

True freedom can only come from a full acceptance of Allah(swt) and it is only then can we learn to love Isa(as) and all of the Prophets(PBUT) as we are meant to.

It saddens to see you stuck in the worshiping of a myth and failing to love Isa(as) and to truly worship God(swt)

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[Umar001]

Lets touch on this You use Jesus in this as a prophet, Jesus claimed to be God many times, but can someone be a prophet in Islam and claim to be God at the same time?

Hi King,

It seems you are willing to discuss in a civil way so I couldn't help myself but reply, specially since this topic, i.e. Jesus, peace be upon him, is one that I love.

I would like to focous on your statement:

Jesus claimed to be God many times,

Two things would come to mind, first, the question as to whether Jesus really did claim to be God, or whether people see a piece of writing, are told to believe something and then try to derive proof from the writing to back up their belief.

Second, I would wonder about the source you use that claims that Jesus claimed to be God many times.

[- Qatada -]

Lets touch on this You use Jesus in this as a prophet, Jesus claimed to be God many times, but can someone be a prophet in Islam and claim to be God at the same time?

No :) since Jesus never stated anywhere in the bible that he is God himself, nor did he tell the people to worship him.


God doesn't allow himself to be killed by his own creation, and God doesn't die. Rather, God is the One who created us, the One who gave us life, the One who provides for us and sends messengers from among us so they may call us to His obedience, then He causes us to die after some time. Then he raises us back to life once again to judge us on all that we did in this world.

Those who obeyed the Messengers' who claim with clear signs will be successful in this world and the hereafter in the true home of paradise, those who reject the messengers and prefer disbelief over belief will be punished in the blazing fire.

They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."

Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way.

Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.


[Qur'an Al Ma'ida - The Table Spread 5: 73-78]

One day will Allah gather the messengers together, and ask: "What was the response ye received (from men to your teaching)?" They will say: "We have no knowledge: it is Thou Who knowest in full all that is hidden."

Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit [angel Gabriel], so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

"And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger: they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'". [The word muslim is someone who submits to God.]


Behold! the disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith."

They said: "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou hast indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle."

Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."


And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

"Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.

"If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."


Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah: That is the great salvation, (the fulfilment of all desires).

To Allah doth belong the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, and it is He Who hath power over all things.


[Qur'an 5: 109-120]

[Woodrow]

It was just pointed out to me that Jesus(as) Isa(as) is very much loved by both Christians and Muslims. It would be disrespectful to leave the thread on an open forum so I am going to move it back to the "Discover Islam" where it will be moderated and any disrespect will be avoided.

[JesusIsKing]

I moved these posts over to their own thread in this section as the Discover Islam section is not meant to be for debate.

ok alright, thats fine

[JesusIsKing]

Hi King,

It seems you are willing to discuss in a civil way so I couldn't help myself but reply, specially since this topic, i.e. Jesus, peace be upon him, is one that I love.

I would like to focous on your statement:

Jesus claimed to be God many times,

Two things would come to mind, first, the question as to whether Jesus really did claim to be God, or whether people see a piece of writing, are told to believe something and then try to derive proof from the writing to back up their belief.

Second, I would wonder about the source you use that claims that Jesus claimed to be God many times.

In Exodus 3:14 God appeared in the burning bush and Moses asked who should he tell the israelites who sent the, and God said tell them that I am has sent you.

Then go to John 8:58 The Jews said that Jesus is not more than 50 years old, and Jesus replied i tell you the truth, befor Abraham I am. Jesus was reffering to be God in that text.

[Umar001]

In Exodus 3:14 God appeared in the burning bush and Moses asked who should he tell the israelites who sent the, and God said tell them that I am has sent you.

Then go to John 8:58 The Jews said that Jesus is not more than 50 years old, and Jesus replied i tell you the truth, befor Abraham I am. Jesus was reffering to be God in that text.

So because Jesus is reported to have said I am, then he is god? What about anyone else? There's another person that I know of who said I am in the new testament.

At best all that the text in John proves is pre existance, which does not mean God.

Furthermore, if Jesus was saying he is God why not say it, why didnt he say I am what I am, the full phrase, also when the Gospel authors wrote the words of Jesus on the Cross some of them retrained the original language, yet when JEsus is claiming to be God and saying such a thing the author does not??

This is exactly what I mean by having a belief and then trying to insert it in the scripture.

From a technical point, isn't it interesting that such a great statement was only recorded by John.

[JesusIsKing]

So because Jesus is reported to have said I am, then he is god? What about anyone else? There's another person that I know of who said I am in the new testament.

At best all that the text in John proves is pre existance, which does not mean God.

Furthermore, if Jesus was saying he is God why not say it, why didnt he say I am what I am, the full phrase, also when the Gospel authors wrote the words of Jesus on the Cross some of them retrained the original language, yet when JEsus is claiming to be God and saying such a thing the author does not??

This is exactly what I mean by having a belief and then trying to insert it in the scripture.

From a technical point, isn't it interesting that such a great statement was only recorded by John.

That was just one example of him claiming to be God, but part of the reason I believe and most other christians believe he was reffering of him as being God is because he was quoting from exodus 3:14, and right after that the Jews picked up stones and tried to kill him, because they felt is was offensive and blasphamy to claim to be God.

but heres anther example.
Mark 14:60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" 62 "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Mathew 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." 64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Luke 22:66 At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. 67 "If you are the Christ," they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, 68 and if I asked you, you would not answer. 69 But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." 70 They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am." 71 Then they said, "Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips."

[JesusIsKing]

So because Jesus is reported to have said I am, then he is god? What about anyone else? There's another person that I know of who said I am in the new testament.

At best all that the text in John proves is pre existance, which does not mean God.

Furthermore, if Jesus was saying he is God why not say it, why didnt he say I am what I am, the full phrase, also when the Gospel authors wrote the words of Jesus on the Cross some of them retrained the original language, yet when JEsus is claiming to be God and saying such a thing the author does not??

This is exactly what I mean by having a belief and then trying to insert it in the scripture.

From a technical point, isn't it interesting that such a great statement was only recorded by John.

Jesus also reffered to himself as the good shepard and when the wolf comes (enamy) he would not abandon his sheep (people)

[Umar001]

That was just one example of him claiming to be God, but part of the reason I believe and most other christians believe he was reffering of him as being God is because he was quoting from exodus 3:14, and right after that the Jews picked up stones and tried to kill him, because they felt is was offensive and blasphamy to claim to be God.

Well not all Christians believe Jesus is God, but I understand your point. Well that's assumption that he was quoting Exodus, and saying the Jews were going to kill him for blasphamy is hardly evidence, since we know the Jews wanted him dead anyway.

but heres anther example.
Mark 14:60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" 62 "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Mathew 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." 64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Luke 22:66 At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. 67 "If you are the Christ," they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, 68 and if I asked you, you would not answer. 69 But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." 70 They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am." 71 Then they said, "Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips."

At best again this shows that Jesus is the Son of God, a term that many others were given. As you know the Jews wanted him dead anyway, so anything he said they'd use against him.

The matter of a fact is, that there are many statements that can be brought forward, all those statements, if one is truthful with himself, are not clear cut and can be interpreted if wanted to mean many things. If we go along with the biblical context, then Jesus is not God, if we go along with a disposition in belief that Jesus is God, then any text can be used to find such belief.

Luke 7

33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."

Similarly, no matter what Jesus is claimed to have said, the pre convied beliefs will always be justified by some.

What I believe, there is some truth in the Gospels, there is some stuff that might have slipped in there that is not true. I believe in God, the Almighty, who created the Earth and Skies, I believe that He knows all and nothing escapes Him, I believe He knows the sincerity of those who sincerly repent, and He forgives them without needing of sacrafise, I believe in Jesus, the messenger and servant of God, I believe he was a man accredited by God through whom God done many mighty works, I believe in Jesus' virgin birth, I believe in Jesus' ascension, I believe Jesus will return and rule and establish God's law.

I love Jesus as I love myself if not more, he was and is a man, a great man, who is close to God in this life and the next.

[Woodrow]

I often find that many non-Muslims have no understanding of how much love a Muslim has for Jesus(Isa)(as). Out of all of the Prophets that have come he is the only one the Qur'an tells us ascended to Jannah(Heaven) We await his second coming with much anticipation and look forward to his destroying the anti-Christ.

When he returns it will be a time of great joy for all Believers.

Isa(as) is held with very much love and respect and as Muslims we do know him and not the false image that has been presented of him.

The Words of Isa(as) himself are the most reassuring that he was a true Prophet and spoke with righteousness:

5:110. When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic; Y S C

5:111. And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims". Y S C
5:112. When the disciples said: O Jesus, son of Mary! Is thy Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven? He said: Observe your duty to Allah, if ye are true believers. Y S C

5:113. (They said:) We wish to eat thereof, that we may satisfy our hearts and know that thou hast spoken truth to us, and that thereof we may be witnesses. Y S
5:114. Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Allah, Lord of us! Send down for us a table spread with food from heaven, that it may be a feast for us, for the first of us and for the last of us, and a sign from Thee. Give us sustenance, for Thou art the Best of Sustainers. Y S C

5:115. Allah said: Lo! I send it down for you. And whoso disbelieveth of you afterward, him surely will I punish with a punishment wherewith I have not punished any of (My) creatures. Y S C
5:116. And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden? Y S C

5:117. I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things. Y S C
5:118. If Thou punish them, lo! they are Thy slaves, and if Thou forgive them (lo! they are Thy slaves). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, the Wise. Y S C

5:119. Allah saith: This is a day in which their truthfulness profiteth the truthful, for theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they are secure for ever, Allah taking pleasure in them and they in Him. That is the great triumph. Y S C
5:120. Unto Allah belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and whatsoever is therein, and He is Able to do all things. Y S

Pickthal's Quran Translation

[JesusIsKing]

Well not all Christians believe Jesus is God, but I understand your point. Well that's assumption that he was quoting Exodus, and saying the Jews were going to kill him for blasphamy is hardly evidence, since we know the Jews wanted him dead anyway.



At best again this shows that Jesus is the Son of God, a term that many others were given. As you know the Jews wanted him dead anyway, so anything he said they'd use against him.

The matter of a fact is, that there are many statements that can be brought forward, all those statements, if one is truthful with himself, are not clear cut and can be interpreted if wanted to mean many things. If we go along with the biblical context, then Jesus is not God, if we go along with a disposition in belief that Jesus is God, then any text can be used to find such belief.

Luke 7

33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."

Similarly, no matter what Jesus is claimed to have said, the pre convied beliefs will always be justified by some.

What I believe, there is some truth in the Gospels, there is some stuff that might have slipped in there that is not true. I believe in God, the Almighty, who created the Earth and Skies, I believe that He knows all and nothing escapes Him, I believe He knows the sincerity of those who sincerly repent, and He forgives them without needing of sacrafise, I believe in Jesus, the messenger and servant of God, I believe he was a man accredited by God through whom God done many mighty works, I believe in Jesus' virgin birth, I believe in Jesus' ascension, I believe Jesus will return and rule and establish God's law.

I love Jesus as I love myself if not more, he was and is a man, a great man, who is close to God in this life and the next.

There is only one thing wrong with your claim of saying that Jesus was a good man and you love him. because John 14:6 I am the way, the truth and the Life, noone comes to the father except through me.

you cant believe Jesus was just a good guy, you either believe he is a Liar, lunatic or Lord, (quote by C.S. Lewis.) choose one.

[JesusIsKing]

I often find that many non-Muslims have no understanding of how much love a Muslim has for Jesus(Isa)(as). Out of all of the Prophets that have come he is the only one the Qur'an tells us ascended to Jannah(Heaven) We await his second coming with much anticipation and look forward to his destroying the anti-Christ.

When he returns it will be a time of great joy for all Believers.

Isa(as) is held with very much love and respect and as Muslims we do know him and not the false image that has been presented of him.

The Words of Isa(as) himself are the most reassuring that he was a true Prophet and spoke with righteousness:


Pickthal's Quran Translation

Do you believe in what happened with Jacob?

[Woodrow]

Do you believe in what happened with Jacob?

Yes, I believe the following.

2:129. "Our Lord! send amongst them a Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them: For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise." S P C

2:130. And who turns away from the religion of Abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: And he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous. S P
C
2:131. Behold! his Lord said to him: "Bow (thy will to Me):" He said: "I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the Universe." S P
2:132. And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam." S P

2:133. Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy god and the god of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow (in Islam)." S P C
2:134. That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case! S P C

2:135. They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah." S P C
2:136. Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)." S P

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

[JesusIsKing]

Yes, I believe the following.

What do you think of Israel?

[JesusIsKing]

Yes, I believe the following.

I would also like to ask you, have you ever found and foulacy in the Bible? anything that has not come to pass or any geographical error?

[Woodrow]

What do you think of Israel?

As a country? Political affiliation? or historicaly?

I know many Israelis and even have at least one relative who is Israeli, so I guess I have no problem with the people, if that is what you mean.

[Woodrow]

I would also like to ask you, have you ever found and foulacy in the Bible? anything that has not come to pass or any geographical error?

If I had not found fault and fallacy in the Bible I would have stayed Christian.

[Woodrow]

I would also like to ask you, have you ever found and foulacy in the Bible? anything that has not come to pass or any geographical error?

If I had not found fault and fallacy in the Bible I would have stayed Christian.



Now, before this conversation goes too far. Please keep in mind that this is an Islamic Forum. We are Muslims and all of the Moderators are very faithful Muslims. Our goal of the forum is to show the truth about Islam. We do allow debate with other faiths, but it is essential that the debate does not become a promotion of any religion other than Islam.

For those who desire to learn about other religions, there are many web sites available to learn about virtualy any Faith. We as Muslims are encouraged to learn all we can and to only accept Islam with full knowledge and of our own choice.

It is my understanding that the intent of this thread is to show how we as Muslims View Isa(as), Let us stay with that intent.

[Woodrow]

For those who are not aware of it, there is a thread that goes into much detail as to what Islam teaches us about Isa(as).

http://www.islamicboard.com/prophets...tml#post696662

[JesusIsKing]

If I had not found fault and fallacy in the Bible I would have stayed Christian.



Now, before this conversation goes too far. Please keep in mind that this is an Islamic Forum. We are Muslims and all of the Moderators are very faithful Muslims. Our goal of the forum is to show the truth about Islam. We do allow debate with other faiths, but it is essential that the debate does not become a promotion of any religion other than Islam.

For those who desire to learn about other religions, there are many web sites available to learn about virtualy any Faith. We as Muslims are encouraged to learn all we can and to only accept Islam with full knowledge and of our own choice.

It is my understanding that the intent of this thread is to show how we as Muslims View Isa(as), Let us stay with that intent.

I was talking politically

but I want to know what surah 4:157 means? In your view.

[Woodrow]

I was talking politically

but I want to know what surah 4:157 means? In your view.

One question at a time.

I believe the current political regime in Israel has become very militant. In my opinion it is becoming very similar to communism. Nearly 50% of Israels population claims to be either athiestic or agnostic. I do not see it as being a jewish state I see it as being very secular and with leaders that are trying to expand beyond the borders of Israel.

Now for Israels role in the world. Politicaly it is an independant nation and as such the outside world needs to respect it's right to self determination. At the same time I see the same rights are owed to the Palestinians. we can not recognize Israel and ignore Palestine. Conflict between the two is inevitable until all outside forces step out of the picture and allow the two people to come to a settlement agreed upon by both.

first i would not try to explain 4;157 as a stand alone ayyat. Second I am fairly new to Islam and do not consider myself well versed in tasfir, so I do have to qualify my words as being they are strictly my own impressions and spoken without scholastic authority.

I will put down a few translations of 157 and 158 and perhaps you will understand what I am trying to say.

4:157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- S P C

4:158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;- S P C


Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

4:157. And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain. Y S C

4:158. But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. Y S C

Pickthal's Quran Translation

4:157. And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. P Y C

4:158. Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise. P Y C


Shakir's Quran Translation

My opinion as to what happened is Isa(as) was spared an ignoble death and rose directly to heaven without the need of experiencing the trials of the grave. he did not have to rise from the dead because he did not die.

The people of the time and the witnesses were truly convinced that Isa(as) was crucified and did die on the cross. It is apparent that either a person some people thought to be Isa(as) did die on the cross or the people only thought somebody died on the cross, and that person was Isa(as).

However, Isa(as) did not die on the cross. People who failed to see and understand and accept the truth have continued to spread this fallacy about the true Isa(as)

This is my opinion and based only on my own interpretations. It could be in error, and not in accordance with the true message of the Qur'an Astragfirullah.

[Umar001]

There is only one thing wrong with your claim of saying that Jesus was a good man and you love him. because John 14:6 I am the way, the truth and the Life, noone comes to the father except through me.

you cant believe Jesus was just a good guy, you either believe he is a Liar, lunatic or Lord, (quote by C.S. Lewis.) choose one.

Well, C.S. Lewis, if quoted correctly, is mistaken. Maybe his quote is in context of debating the Biblical Jesus.

You see, what your saying is, you either believe Jesus is A, B or C, whilst in reality your restricting my choice between other options, I could believe Jesus is D.

I do not suscribe that Jesus was a Lier, nor a Lunatic, Authobillah, nor a God or God, rather I believe that he is a man accredited by God and through whom God done many good works.

Second, I would wonder about the source you use that claims that Jesus claimed to be God many times.

I don't question Jesus, rather I question your sources from which you derive Jesus' Image from.

Regards,
Eesa.

[JesusIsKing]

Well, C.S. Lewis, if quoted correctly, is mistaken. Maybe his quote is in context of debating the Biblical Jesus.

You see, what your saying is, you either believe Jesus is A, B or C, whilst in reality your restricting my choice between other options, I could believe Jesus is D.

I do not suscribe that Jesus was a Lier, nor a Lunatic, Authobillah, nor a God or God, rather I believe that he is a man accredited by God and through whom God done many good works.



I don't question Jesus, rather I question your sources from which you derive Jesus' Image from.

Regards,
Eesa.

Jesus lived, he claimed to be God, if you believe he was a good man or prophet, he would be a liar because he claimed to be God, You would have to say hes crazy because he's making all of these claims like "All who eat my flesh and drink my blood remain in me, and I in them" if you heard someone say things like that ummmm....... im pretty sure he would be a little differant from other people. But I would say he is the lord, and not the other two?

[Woodrow]

However, we are convinced he never said those words and that they came about long after he ascended to Heaven. Isa(as) was a beloved Prophet(PBUH) and it is inconceivable that he would have preached Blasphemy and Shirk.

5:115. Allah said: Lo! I send it down for you. And whoso disbelieveth of you afterward, him surely will I punish with a punishment wherewith I have not punished any of (My) creatures. Y S C
5:116. And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden? Y S C

5:117. I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things. Y S C


Pickthal's Quran Translation

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you JesusIsKing; and welcome to the forum,

I think we have to respectfully agree to disagree with our Muslim brothers and sisters about our beliefs in Jesus. :)

Maybe the greater question might be to ask how do the teachings of Jesus inspire you and what do they inspire you to do?

In the spirit of seeking a greater interfaith friendship

Eric

[Woodrow]

Eric did point out something very important. There are some very big differences between Muslims and Christians. One thing that is important to remember is that we do not accept the same writings as being the word of Allah(swt).

It is hard to understand each other when there is no common reference point.

Hear is a short interactive flash clip that will explain some of the major differences we have:

http://media.putfile.com/IslamChristianity-compared


Here is a short video that does explain the very basics of our faith


http://media.putfile.com/Pillars-of-Faith


Here is another interactive flash presentation that answers more questions in depth.

http://media.putfile.com/Divine-Quotes-from-the-Quran


Muslims do have tremendous Love for Isa(as) He was truly a wonderful Prophet(PBUH) Allah(swt) did perform great miracles to show that he was an annointed Prophet(PBUH) a Messiah.

From Surah 3 Al-Imran

إِذْ قَالَتِ الْمَلآئِكَةُ يَا مَرْيَمُ إِنَّ اللّهَ يُبَشِّرُكِ بِكَلِمَةٍ مِّنْهُ اسْمُهُ الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ وَجِيهاً فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ وَمِنَ الْمُقَرَّبِينَ
45:
Muhsin Khan: (Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah."
Yusuf Ali: Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;
Shakir: When the angels said: O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).
Transliteration: Ith qalati almala-ikatuya maryamu inna Allaha yubashshiruki bikalimatinminhu ismuhu almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama wajeehanfee addunya wal-akhirati waminaalmuqarrabeen
Sahih International: [And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].





We firmly believe the Qur'an is the true word of Allah(swt)

[JesusIsKing]

Would you be willing to say that the Quaran says the Bible is uncorrupted?

[Woodrow]

Would you be willing to say that the Quaran says the Bible is uncorrupted?

It indirectly states the Injil is uncorrupted. But, the Injil is not the NT it was the word given to Isa(as) and the people failed to preserve all of it.

[JesusIsKing]

It indirectly states the Injil is uncorrupted. But, the Injil is not the NT it was the word given to Isa(as) and the people failed to preserve all of it.

Was the injil also reffered to as the Gospel?

[Woodrow]

Was the injil also reffered to as the Gospel?

No, although some translators, will use the word Gospel to mean Injil. Injil is a pure Arabic word Gospel comes from the old English word Godspele which came from the Teutonic Gott Spiele, it is actually a very new word in the history of linguistics and most likely did not make it into the English language until the late 1400s and in the form of Gospel not until the KJV.

Injil can be considered Gott Spiele in the sense of being God's(swt) Word, But it is not Gospel in the sense of being John. Mark, Mathew and Luke.

Addendum: Before this point gets brought up, I am aware that in Arabic Bibles used by Arabic Christians Injil is used to refer to the Books of John, Mark, Matthew and Luke. However as Muslims we would say that is fallacy as we do not believe those books were the direct words recited by Allah(swt)

[JesusIsKing]

No, although some translators, will use the word Gospel to mean Injil. Injil is a pure Arabic word Gospel comes from the old English word Godspele which came from the Teutonic Gott Spiele, it is actually a very new word in the history of linguistics and most likely did not make it into the English language until the late 1400s and in the form of Gospel not until the KJV.

Injil can be considered Gott Spiele in the sense of being God's(swt) Word, But it is not Gospel in the sense of being John. Mark, Mathew and Luke.

Addendum: Before this point gets brought up, I am aware that in Arabic Bibles used by Arabic Christians Injil is used to refer to the Books of John, Mark, Matthew and Luke. However as Muslims we would say that is fallacy as we do not believe those books were the direct words recited by Allah(swt)

Doesnt the Quaran say specificly that God gave Jesus the Gospel? and Moses with the law?

[Woodrow]

Doesnt the Quaran say specificly that God gave Jesus the Gospel? and Moses with the law?

No. it specificaly states that Allah(swt) gave Jesus the Injil it is noted that many translators do use the English word gospel to refer to the Injil

وَقَفَّيْنَا عَلَى آثَارِهِم بِعَيسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ مُصَدِّقاً لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَآتَيْنَاهُ الإِنجِيلَ فِيهِ هُدًى وَنُورٌ وَمُصَدِّقاً لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَهُدًى وَمَوْعِظَةً لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ
46:
Muhsin Khan: And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).

Yusuf Ali: And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

Pickthal: And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).

Transliteration: Waqaffayna AAala atharihimbiAAeesa ibni maryama musaddiqan lima baynayadayhi mina attawrati waataynahual-injeela feehi hudan wanoorun wamusaddiqan limabayna yadayhi mina attawrati wahudan wamawAAithatanlilmuttaqeen


وَلْيَحْكُمْ أَهْلُ الإِنجِيلِ بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ فِيهِ وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ
47:
Muhsin Khan: Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed (then) such (people) are the Fasiqun (the rebellious i.e. disobedient (of a lesser degree) to Allah.

Yusuf Ali: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

Pickthal: Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.

Transliteration: Walyahkum ahlu al-injeeli bimaanzala Allahu feehi waman lam yahkum bimaanzala Allahu faola-ika humu alfasiqoon

Keep in mind no Translation is the Qur'an and no Translation is accurate, they are all just approximations. There is no English word that corresponds to Injil.

However, since the Injil was given by God(swt) it can be understood as being the word of God(swt) so it can be said for the sake of understanding that the Injil is the "word of God" or Gott Spiele or gospel. However because a writing is the word of God(swt) it does not mean it is the Injil. As the Qur'an is also the word of God(swt) so technicaly in English it would be appropriate to also call the Qur'an, "Gospel" in English. Although, since most English speaking people are aware as to what the Qur'an is, to call the Qur'an the Gospel would be seen as very confusing and it is much better to call it the Qur'an, as that is a very specific "Word of God" or gospel.

Now, since the Injil no longer exists, there is nothing to compare it with in English. There is nothing in English that Injil can translate into, so the only way to translate it is to use a word that comes close to the definition of Injil. Most translators choose to use gospel as that is usually understood as meaning the "Word of God(swt)"

However, Injil is definetly not the same as Gospel as thought of in terms of John, Mark, Matthew and Luke. Those are the words of the Apostles and not Injil.

With Musa(PBUH) and the Torah. The Hebrew Torah and the Arabic Tauret are essentialy the same word. The English equivelent is Law, however here English speaking People are very much aware that Torah specificaly means the "The Law of God(swt) that was given to Musa(PBUH) so there is not as much confusion in using the Term Law. Although either Tauret or Torah would be more exact. We do not believe that the Tauret as it exists today is still fully intact. But, personaly, I find little in it that would be in violation of the Qur'an. So, my feeling is it has not undergone as much of a change as other books have. But that is just my opinion. Astragfirullah


The above Qur'an Quotes are Surah 5:46 and Surah 5:47

[JesusIsKing]

No. it specificaly states that Allah(swt) gave Jesus the Injil it is noted that many translators do use the English word gospel to refer to the Injil

وَقَفَّيْنَا عَلَى آثَارِهِم بِعَيسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ مُصَدِّقاً لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَآتَيْنَاهُ الإِنجِيلَ فِيهِ هُدًى وَنُورٌ وَمُصَدِّقاً لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَهُدًى وَمَوْعِظَةً لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ
46:
Muhsin Khan: And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).

Yusuf Ali: And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

Pickthal: And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).

Transliteration: Waqaffayna AAala atharihimbiAAeesa ibni maryama musaddiqan lima baynayadayhi mina attawrati waataynahual-injeela feehi hudan wanoorun wamusaddiqan limabayna yadayhi mina attawrati wahudan wamawAAithatanlilmuttaqeen


وَلْيَحْكُمْ أَهْلُ الإِنجِيلِ بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ فِيهِ وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ
47:
Muhsin Khan: Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed (then) such (people) are the Fasiqun (the rebellious i.e. disobedient (of a lesser degree) to Allah.

Yusuf Ali: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

Pickthal: Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.

Transliteration: Walyahkum ahlu al-injeeli bimaanzala Allahu feehi waman lam yahkum bimaanzala Allahu faola-ika humu alfasiqoon

Keep in mind no Translation is the Qur'an and no Translation is accurate, they are all just approximations. There is no English word that corresponds to Injil.

However, since the Injil was given by God(swt) it can be understood as being the word of God(swt) so it can be said for the sake of understanding that the Injil is the "word of God" or Gott Spiele or gospel. However because a writing is the word of God(swt) it does not mean it is the Injil. As the Qur'an is also the word of God(swt) so technicaly in English it would be appropriate to also call the Qur'an, "Gospel" in English. Although, since most English speaking people are aware as to what the Qur'an is, to call the Qur'an the Gospel would be seen as very confusing and it is much better to call it the Qur'an, as that is a very specific "Word of God" or gospel.

Now, since the Injil no longer exists, there is nothing to compare it with in English. There is nothing in English that Injil can translate into, so the only way to translate it is to use a word that comes close to the definition of Injil. Most translators choose to use gospel as that is usually understood as meaning the "Word of God(swt)"

However, Injil is definetly not the same as Gospel as thought of in terms of John, Mark, Matthew and Luke. Those are the words of the Apostles and not Injil.

With Musa(PBUH) and the Torah. The Hebrew Torah and the Arabic Tauret are essentialy the same word. The English equivelent is Law, however here English speaking People are very much aware that Torah specificaly means the "The Law of God(swt) that was given to Musa(PBUH) so there is not as much confusion in using the Term Law. Although either Tauret or Torah would be more exact. We do not believe that the Tauret as it exists today is still fully intact. But, personaly, I find little in it that would be in violation of the Qur'an. So, my feeling is it has not undergone as much of a change as other books have. But that is just my opinion. Astragfirullah


The above Qur'an Quotes are Surah 5:46 and Surah 5:47

"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).
Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).

[Woodrow]

"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).
Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).

Point being?

I thought I had explained that clearly.

As I stated before there is no English word for Injil. Many Translators use the word gospel as a reference of some meaning to non-Arabic Readers. It is no more valid to call the Injil the gospel as it is to call the Qur'an the Gospel.


It is very difficult to use an English language translation of the Qur'an to discuss the Qur'an. Arabic, does not translate into English. there are some translations that are fair approximations.

There is no such thing as an English Language Qur'an. The Qur'an can not be written in English.

.

[Woodrow]

"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).
Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).

Yes, Allah(swt) did send Isa(as) the Injil and the injil is the true unbreakble word of Allah(swt) However the people lost the message of the Injil and substituted it with the NT.

Notice that the Injil was sent to Isa(as) Was the NT sent to Isa(as)?, it was not even written until after Isa(as) ascended into Heaven. Why would John, Mark, Matthew and Luke be the ones to give the Message to Isa(as)

The Gospels of John, Mark, Luke and Matthew were the accounts of what they saw and not of the Words Allah(swt) gave to Isa(as). It is in very few places where we see anything that even resembles Allah(swt) said: ""

[Umar001]

Jesus lived, he claimed to be God, if you believe he was a good man or prophet, he would be a liar because he claimed to be God, You would have to say hes crazy because he's making all of these claims like "All who eat my flesh and drink my blood remain in me, and I in them" if you heard someone say things like that ummmm....... im pretty sure he would be a little differant from other people. But I would say he is the lord, and not the other two?

As I said, please read carefully,

The source you read from is what I question not Jesus, I question their authentiticy.

Regards
Eesa.

[Grace Seeker]

Can someone educate me once again as to what happened, according to Islam, at the time of Jesus supposed crucifixion. I am especially interested in what took place afterward.

Which disciples knew that it was NOT Jesus on the cross?
I know the idea that it was Judas on the cross is not found in the Qur'an, where does this tradition come from? How widespread is its acceptance among casual Muslims?
When and how did the disciples find out that it was NOT Jesus who had died on the cross and what was their reaction?
Is it known where Jesus was during the time of the crucifixion?
What did Jesus and his disciples do after the crucifixion? Did Jesus continue to teach and preach, or did he just say "Good-bye" to them and that was pretty much it?
How long did Jesus remain on earth following the crucifixion?
I understand that Jesus was taken bodily to heaven and remains alive there. Did anyone see this take place? Was it like the Christian understanding of the ascension or was it by means of some divine "star trek" (don't take me literally) transporter or do we even know how it happened?
What is the Muslim response to Ahmadi views that Jesus had a family and lived out his life in India and then died there?
Besides that point, are there other significant difference between Islamic and Ahmadi beliefs with regards to the non-death of Jesus?

[Andrew]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread so far and have respect greatly for both of its main participants in being peacefully and mature in discussion.

I would be interested too in the answers to Grace Seekers questions.

[Woodrow]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread so far and have respect greatly for both of its main participants in being peacefully and mature in discussion.

I would be interested too in the answers to Grace Seekers questions.

I just now returned to this thread and had not really noticed Grace Seeker's Questions before.

I must admit they are valid questions and do deserve an answer. To be honest at the moment I am not up to getting into a long theological discussion so I am just posting this to move the thread up and hope some people more knowledgeable than I will reply to Grace Seeker's post.

[MaiCarInMtl]

I'd also really like to read the answer to Grace Seeker's question. I could possibly ask someone tonight for an answer, but it might be a very general answer (without quotations or verses). Otherwise, I will be going to s Muslimah study circle on Saturday, I could always ask then if no one has yet to provide an answer yet.

On a similar but slightly deviated subject, I wanted to know what people's reactions to these Jesus action figures are (they will be sold by Wal-Mart and include Jesus, Moses, Goliath, Samson, etc). Here's a link to a BBC article about it.

[Keltoi]

I just now returned to this thread and had not really noticed Grace Seeker's Questions before.

I must admit they are valid questions and do deserve an answer. To be honest at the moment I am not up to getting into a long theological discussion so I am just posting this to move the thread up and hope some people more knowledgeable than I will reply to Grace Seeker's post.

Do you think this question might receive more attention if it was posted in the "Questions about Islam" thread in Comparative Religion?

[Grace Seeker]

Do you think this question might receive more attention if it was posted in the "Questions about Islam" thread in Comparative Religion?

I was hoping for more than just personal opinion, but some sort of authorative "official" position. Or maybe we are not getting an answer because there isn't one. That would be good to know as well.

[Imam]

Peace for All

Can someone educate me once again as to what happened, according to Islam, at the time of Jesus supposed crucifixion. I am especially interested in what took place afterward.


I know the idea that it was Judas on the cross is not found in the Qur'an, where does this tradition come from?

most of the following ideas I posted before in various posts......I collected it here for the benefit....


such traditions (Substitution interpretation) come neither from the Quran nor authentic hadith,it come from a hearsay sources basically (Wahb ibn monabeh,Qatada,Ibn isaac)


more important ,apart from the question of the authenticity ,

accepting such interpretation would create unsolved grammatical problem:


That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them , and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
[Qur'an 4:157

as if we put the pronoun (he) instead of (it) the meaning would be
he(jesus) appeared in another shape(another face ad body) for the jews !!!!!!!

and that exactly the opposite of such interpreatation ......

Imam Alzamakshari highlighted such issue in his great Quranic commentary (Alkashaf)

فإن قلت: { شُبّهَ } مسند إلى ماذا* ? * ؟ إن جعلته مسنداً إلى المسيح، فالمسيح مشبه به وليس بمشبه، وإن أسندته إلى المقتول فالمقتول لم يجر له ذكر قلت: هو مسند إلى الجار والمجرور وهو { لهم } كقولك خيل إليه، كأنه قيل: ولكن وقع لهم التشبيه.

In English:

If we say (he was substituted) then what (he) refers to?

if it refers to Jesus ,it can't be as the interpretation claims that God substituted for Jesus a person ....

and if (he) refers to a person ,so we have to find his name before the pronoun....

the meaning makes sense if only we use (it was appeared to them so)


another great commentator (Mohamed Asad,which I recommend highly using his interpretation as your first choice to understand the Quranic meanings) highlighted the same meaning:

he wrote:
The Message of The Quran by Muhammad Asad
http://geocities.com/masad02/

The Qur’an categorically denies the story of the crucifixion of Jesus. There exist, among Muslims, many fanciful legends telling us that at the last moment God substituted for Jesus a person closely resembling him (according to some accounts, that person was Judas), who was subsequently crucified in his place. However, none of these legends finds the slightest support in the Qur’an or in authentic Traditions, and the stories produced in this connection by the classical commentators must be summarily rejected. They represent no more than confused attempts at "harmonizing" the Qur’anic statement that Jesus was not crucified with the graphic description, in the Gospels, of his crucifixion. The story of the crucifixion as such has been succinctly explained in the Qur’anic phrase wa-lakin shubbiha lahum, which I render as "but it only appeared to them as if it had been so" - implying that in the course of time, long after the time of Jesus, a legend had somehow grown up (possibly under the then-powerful influence of Mithraistic beliefs) to the effect that he had died on the cross in order to atone for the "original sin" with which mankind is allegedly burdened This, to my mind, is the only satisfactory explanation of the phrase wa-lakin shubbiha lahum, the more so as the expression shubbiha li is idiomatically synonymous with khuyyila 1i, "[a thing] became a fancied image to me", i.e., "in my mind" - in other words, "[it] seemed to me" (see Qamus, art. khayala, as well as Lane II, 833, and IV, 1500).

When and how did the disciples find out that it was NOT Jesus who had died on the cross and what was their reaction?

see the above ........

Is it known where Jesus was during the time of the crucifixion?

see the above ........

What did Jesus and his disciples do after the crucifixion? Did Jesus continue to teach and preach, or did he just say "Good-bye" to them and that was pretty much it?

I provided a clear proof that the Quran calls the crucifiction ,a Jewish hearsay legend ,that been propagated by the Jews and been believed by some people (let's go far and say some of the disciples too) never witnessed anything ,nor verified the issue....

If the disciples never been told by Jesus "Good-bye" before the end of his mission on earth ,and Just Allah terminated his mission safely(without crucifiction),then the disciples could have believed the Jewish hostile,proud propaganda towards their enemy (they said in boast, We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary)

If so then we have here misinformed disciples ,regarding something very trivial to their faith (it is how the life of their teacher terminated)

in other words ,

What if the people (including even the disciples) believed the Jewish hearsay (‘We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary) ? is such misinformation has any weight compared to what such (Great teacher of morals) preached....


a prophet,teacher,messiah etc to be killed is nothing astonishing neither for us nor for such people.....it was common

". Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it!" (Luke13:33-34)

Are there other significant difference between Islamic and Ahmadi beliefs with regards to the non-death of Jesus?

They believe in the Swoon hypothesis(Jesus was crucified but did not die on the cross)

such interpretation is far-fetched

if the verse says: (but they killed him not, ............, but so it was made to appear to them ),then such interpretation would be possible....

What is the Muslim response to Ahmadi views that Jesus had a family and lived out his life in India and then died there?

would be the same response to Mark,Luke,Matthew,John;Paul when claiming that Jesus was crucified.....

SOURCE,PLZ????

How long did Jesus remain on earth following the crucifixion?

see the above...


Now there is another Question you should have asked;


What If the Holy Quran says that Jesus was killed ( by means of crucifiction,stoning etc…..) ?


would that bring the muslims to believe in the so called (blood atonment)?

Let’s imagine the Quranic verse like that

verse 4:156-159 “That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; and they killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.

So what?

Jesus was a great prophet who was killed by the Jews ,just as some other prophets before him…………..

There would be no big deal about it…….

The Quran is of no need at all to negate the crucifixion in order to negate the (blood atonement)

the Quran is of no need to claim that jesus wasn't crucified to oppose the (blood atonment)


hope that I didn't forget any question


Peace for all

[Hamayun]

Please pardon my ingnorance if this is a stupid question.

If as King says Jesus was God and if you believe Jesus was crucified then can you please explain to me...

1. If he was powerful enough to create the universe and all the living things on it why was he then not capable of defending himself from a bunch of soldiers with primitive weapons?

2. If he was God and was killed by a human then that is a contrdiction in itself.

As said above my apologies if this is a silly question.

[Grace Seeker]

Please pardon my ingnorance if this is a stupid question.

If as King says Jesus was God and if you believe Jesus was crucified then can you please explain to me...

1. If he was powerful enough to create the universe and all the living things on it why was he then not capable of defending himself from a bunch of soldiers with primitive weapons?

2. If he was God and was killed by a human then that is a contrdiction in itself.

As said above my apologies if this is a silly question.

I will be more than happy to discuss Jesus in Christianity when the Comparitive Religions section opens again after Ramandan. But this thread is entitled "Jesus in Islam," so let us respect that intent.

[coddles76]

Isa (Peace be upon Him) Is a Beautiful messenger of Allah SWT and a righteous one at that. Calling him anything other then a prophet or a messenger is merely degrading the AllMighty Allah and degrading Isa (Peace be upon him) Himself. On the day of judgement Isa (Peace be upon him) will be a witness against the disbelievers and the people who disobeyed his true message. Allah SWT has already informed us what is going to happen on the day of resurrection so we should all take heed and listen to what Allah SWT has informed us. We have already been informed of the answer that Isa (Peace be upon him) will give when he is questioned about the message he informed his people. This will also be a witness against you on the day of judgement and a blessing from Allah SWT because he has given us all a for warning so that we don't come onto the final day unprepared.

"And (Remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection). "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Remember My Favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with Ruh*ul*Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)] so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you writing, Al*Hikmah (the power of understanding), the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel); and when you made out of the clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My Permission, and you breathed into it, and it became a bird by My Permission, and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My Permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My Permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you (when they resolved to kill you) since you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.' " (Al-Ma'idah 5:110)"

"And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner*self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All*Knower of all that is hidden and unseen. (Al-Ma'idah 5:116)"

"Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world). (Al-Ma'idah 5:117)"

"If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, verily You, only You are the All*Mighty, the All*Wise." (Al-Ma'idah 5:118)

"Allah will say: "This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise) - they shall abide therein forever. Allah is pleased with them and they with Him. That is the great success (Paradise)." (Al-Ma'idah 5:119)

"To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein, and He is Able to do all things." (Al-Ma'idah 5:120)

This is who Isa (Peace be upon him) is in Islam, He is a righteous Slave of Allah SWT who obeyed his every command. Never did he say nothing but what Allah SWT commanded him to say and on the Day of Judgement will be amongst the highest levels of the muslims.

[Hamza Asadullah]

[QUOTE=JesusIsKing;692811]

Hey :)




We as muslims believe that Noah, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace be upon them all) were prophets. There have been a total of 124,000 prophets that have come to mankind to call to the worship of Allaah Alone. However, the majority of mankind has fallen astray, because they do believe in a Creator, but they reject the fact that He should be worshipped alone.

Lets touch on this You use Jesus in this as a prophet, Jesus claimed to be God many times, but can someone be a prophet in Islam and claim to be God at the same time?

Concept of God in Christianity
by Dr. Zakir Naik

Position of Jesus (pbuh) in Islam:

(i) Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (pbuh). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus (pbuh).

(ii) We believe that he was one of the mightiest Messengers of Allah (swt).

(iii) We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians do not believe.

(iv) We believe he was the Messiah translated Christ (pbuh).

(v) We believe that he gave life to the dead with God’s permission.

(iv) We believe that he healed those born blind, and the lepers with God’s permission.

II CONCEPT OF GOD IN CHRISTIANITY:

1. Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity

One may ask, if both Muslims and Christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Christians’ insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ (pbuh). A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):

(i) "My Father is greater than I."[The Bible, John 14:28]

(ii) "My Father is greater than all."[The Bible, John 10:29]

(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]

(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."[The Bible, Luke 11:20]

(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."[The Bible, John 5:30]

2. The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law

Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."[The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]

3. God Sent Jesus' (pbuh)

The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses:

(i) "… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."[The Bible, John 14:24]

(ii) "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."[The Bible, John 17:3]

4. Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity
Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).

5. Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God

The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."[The Bible, Acts 2:22]

6. The First Commandment is that God is One

The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first commandment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."

This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:

"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."[The Bible, Mark 12:29]

It is striking that the basic teachings of the Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various verses of the Bible point to Jesus’ (pbuh) actual mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh) rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to him, and explained his miracles as the power of the One True God.

Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets of Almighty God.

III CONCEPT OF GOD IN OLD TESTAMENT:

1. God is One

The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad".

It is a Hebrew quotation which means:

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]


2. Unity of God in the Book of Isaiah

The following verses are from the Book of Isaiah:

(i) "I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]


(ii) "I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me."[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]


(iii) "I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]


3. Old Testament condemns idol worship


(i) Old Testament condemns idol worship in the following verses:

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Exodus 20:3-5]


(ii) A similar message is repeated in the book of Deuteronomy:

"Thou shalt have none other gods before me."

"Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that in the earth beneath, or that is in the water beneath the earth."

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 5:7-9]

Source:

http://www.irf.net/irf/comparativere...nceptofgod.htm

Islam is the only religion which teaches the existence of a PERFECT God. A
perfect God means that there is no sharer in His Nature and His Attributes:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him." (Holy Qur'an, 112:1-4)

There has appeared a man in Benoni. He is not qualified in theology, but is
fondly cherishing the self-delusion that he is an apostle of Christ,
appointed by God to convert Muslims to Christianity. Because he is a lawyer
by profession, he is adept at juggling with words and quoting the Holy Qur'an
totally out of context without knowing a word of Arabic. He wants Muslims to
believe that Jesus was also a God, a belief that is abhorrent to us, because
it is an antithesis of the Absolute perfection of Allah Subhaanahoo Wa Ta
'Aala!

Thus intent upon reversing the process of Truth, which is: "And say: The Truth has come and falsehood vanished. Surely falsehood is ever bound to vanish." (Qur'an, 17:81). In this he will never succeed because the process of Truth is irreversible.

TWO REASONS

He has given two reasons to prove that Jesus is God, viz: (i) "When we say
Jesus is deity (or even God for that matter), we do not make him the Father!
He is one with the Father and therefore HE SHARES HIS NATURE", and (ii) "HE
IS IN EVERY WAY LIKE THE FATHER but he is not the Father".

In short, according to him, Jesus is God because He SHARES THE NATURE OF GOD,and HE IS IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. These two reasons given by him to prove the divinity of Jesus are so puerile that they speak volumes of his legal
training.

Numerous quotations from the Bible are given below to prove that Jesus
neither SHARED THE NATURE OF GOD, nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. He can,therefore, NEVER be GOD. We have given the quotations from the Bible without comment, because the Bible speaks for itself! TO SAY THAT JESUS IS GOD OR SON OF GOD IS NOT ONLY A MOCKERY OF GODHOOD, BUT BLASPHEMY OF THE LOWEST ORDER AND AND INSULT TO THE INTELLIGENCE OF MEN! (Note: Unless otherwise stated, all quotations from the Bible are given from the Authorized Version. In our headings and subheadings we have referred to Jesus as "God" in inverted commas in order to show the ABSURDITY of the claim of this man that Jesus is God!)


THE BIRTH OF "GOD"

"God" was created from the seed of David: "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the SEED of David according to the flesh."(Romans, 1:3)

"God" was the fruit of the loins of David: "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his
throne." (Acts, 2:30)

The Ancestors of "God": "The generations of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." (Matthew, 1:1)

The Sex of "God": "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus." (Luke, 2:21)

How Mary Conceived and Delivered "God". Mary conceived Jesus like any other woman: "The days were accomplished that she should be delivered," (Luke, 2:6) which means that she went through all the normal stages of pregnancy.Nor was her delivery any different from other expectant mothers: "And she being with child cried, travelling in birth, and pained to be delivered." (Revelation, 12:2)

"God" Sucked The Paps of a Woman: "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked." (Luke, 11:27)

The Country of Origin of "God": "Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king. (Matthew, 2:1)

The Occupation of "God": "Jesus was a carpenter by trade." (Mark, 6:3), "and the son of a carpenter." (Matthew, 13:55)

The Transport of "God": "Behold, thy king cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass." (Matthew, 21:5) "And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon." (John, 12:14)

The Wining and Dining of "God": "The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners." (Matthew, 11:9; Luke, 7:34)

The Poverty of "God": "And Jesus saith unto him, the foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." (Matthew, 8:20)

The Meagre Possessions of "God": "Shoes of Jesus" (Luke, 3:16), "Garments and coat of Jesus" (John, 19:23)

"God" Was a Devout Jew: "And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed." (Mark, 1:35)

"God" Was a Loyal Subject: Jesus was a good citizen, he was loyal to Caesar.He said: "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." (Matthew, 22:21) He paid his tax regularly. (Matthew, 17:24-27)

THE FAMILY OF "GOD"

"God" Was the Son of Joseph: "Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, we have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph" (John, 1:45)

Brothers and Brothers-in-law of "God": "And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and
Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence hath
this man all these things? (Matthew, 13:54-56)



THE DEVELOPMENT OF "GOD"

Spiritual Development of "God": "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom." (Luke, 2:40)

Mental, Physical and Moral Development of "God": "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man." (Luke, 2:52)

"God" Was 12 Years Old When His Parents Took Him to Jerusalem: "Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast." (Luke, 2:41-42)

The Powerless "God" (Jesus) said: "I can of mine own self do nothing." (John, 5:30)

"God" Was Ignorant of the Time. Jesus said: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark, 13:32)

"God" Was Ignorant of the Season: "And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry: and seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not
yet." (Mark, 11:12-13)

"God" Was Unlettered: "Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?" (John, 7:14-15)

"God" Learnt Through Experience: "Learned he obedience by the things which he sufered." (Hebrews, 5:8)


THE TEMPTING OF "GOD"

The Devil Tempted "God" For 40 Days: "And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan." (Mark, 1:12-13)

The Devil Tempted "God" Continuously: "And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season." (Luke, 4:13)

Like the Sinners, "God" Was Tempted In All Things: "But (he) was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews, 4:15)
True God Cannot be Tempted With Evil: "God cannot be tempted with evil,neither tempteth he any man." (James, 1:13)

Only The Ungodly Are Tempted With Evil: "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." (James, 1:14)


THE MISSION OF "GOD"

The Confession and Repentance of "God": before the beginning of his public ministry: "Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist" (Matthew, 3:13), "which signified the confession of sins" (Matthew, 3:6), "and repentance from sins (Matthew, 3:11).

"God" Did Not Come to Save the Sinners: "And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them." (Mark, 4:10-12)


THE RACIAL "GOD"

"God" Was a Tribal Jew: "The lion of the tribe of Juda." (Revelation, 5:5)

"God" Came For The Jews Only: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 15:24)

Racial Discrimination of "God": "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 10:5-6)

According to "God", The Gentiles Are Dogs: "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." (matthew, 15:26)

The Kingdom of "God": And he (Jesus) shall reign over THE HOUSE OF JACOB for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." (Luke, 1:33)

The Titles of "God": "The king of the Jews" (Matthew, 2:2), "The king of Israel" (John, 1:49; 12:13)


A "GOD" UNLIKE THE GOD

A Hungry "God": "And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered." (Matthew 4:2), "Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered." (Matthew, 21:18), "and on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry." (Mark, 11:12)

A Thirsty "God": "(He) saith, I thirst." (John, 19:28)

A Sleepy "God": "He was asleep." (Matthew, 8:24), "He fell asleep" (Luke,
8:23), "And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow."
(Mark, 4:38)

A Weary "God": Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on
the well." (John, 4:6)

A Groaning "God": "He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled." (John,
11:33), "Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave."
(John, 11:38)

A Weeping "God": "Jesus wept." (John, 11:35)

A Sorrowing "God": "And (he) began to be sorrowful and very heavy." (Matthew 26:37). "Then saith he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death." (Matthew, 26:38)

A Hysterical "God": "And (he) began to be soreamazed and to be very heavy." (Mark, 14:33)

A Weak "God": "And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven,
strengthening him." (Luke, 22:43)


THE WARRING "GOD"

The Strong-Arm Method of "God": "And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought." (Luke, 19:45). "And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, and found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: and when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables." (John, 2:13-15)

The "God" of War: Jesus said: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew, 10:34)

The Sabre-Rattling "God": Jesus said: "And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke, 22:36)


The "GOD" ON THE RUN

"God" Was Panic-Stricken: "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." (John, 7:1)

"God" Walked in Fear of the Jews: "Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews." (John, 11:53-54)

"God" Has Shown a Clean Pair of Heels: "Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand." (John, 10:39)

"God" Fled in Disguise: "Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." (John, 8:59)


THE CAPTURE OF "GOD"

A Friend Betrayed the Secret Hiding Place of "God": "And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus off-times resorted thither with his disciples. Judas then, having received a band of man and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons." (John, 18:2-3)

"God" Was Arrested, Bound and Led Away: "Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him, and led him away." (John,18:12-13)

"God" Was Humiliated: "And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him. And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face." (Luke, 22:63-64). "Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands." (Matthew, 26:67)

"God" Was Defenseless: "One of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand", he said: "Why smitest thou me?" (John, 18:22-23)

"God" Was Condemned to Death: "And they all condemned him to be guilty of death." (Mark, 14:64). "They answered and said, he is guilty of death." (Matthew, 26:66)

The Dumb and Docile "God": "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth." (Acts, 8:32)


THE SUPPOSED END OF "GOD"

The Dying "God": "And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost." (Mark, 15:37)

The "God" That Was Supposed Dead and Defunct: "Christ died." (Romans, 5:6)."He was dead". (John, 19:33)

The Supposed Corpse of "God": "he (Joseph of Arimathaea) went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered."(Matthew, 27:58)

The Shroud of "God": "And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth." (Matthew, 27:59)

The Orbituary of The Late And Lamented "God": "Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, certainly this was a righteous man."(Luke, 23:47)


EPILOGUE

According to this self-appointed apostle of Christ, Jesus is God because: (i)
"HE SHARED THE NATURE OF GOD", and (ii) because "IN EVERY WAY HE IS LIKE GOD". But according to the quotations of the Bible given above, we find that Jesus did neither SHARE THE NATURE OF GOD nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD.
He is, therefore, definitely NOT God! The onus to prove that Jesus is God
now rests with this Christian. Either he must prove that Jesus is God, or he
must admit that he is a polytheist, i.e., a believer in more than one God.
WITH ALL THE TRICKS AND VERBAL LEGERDEMAIN OF HIS PROFESSION, HE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT JESUS IS GOD!!

He and his fellow-preachers in Christ, will never succeed in convincing the
Muslims that Jesus was anything other than a natural man and a prophet of
God, sent unto the house of Israel to bear the good news of the coming of the KINGDOM OF GOD, which prophecy was fulfilled with the advent of the Holy Prophet Muhammed (Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wa Sallam)!

Source: http://www.jamaat.net/deedat.htm

[Follower]

Jesus is perfect:

019.019
YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
PICKTHAL: He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
SHAKIR: He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.

[Umar001]

I begin in the name of The One Deserving of Worship and Praise, the Owner of Mercy and the Giver of Mercy.

And ask Him to send His blessings upon all those who have submitted to Him.

Jesus is perfect:

019.019
YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
PICKTHAL: He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
SHAKIR: He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.

Do you know what it means to be perfect? And do you know what it means to be pure or free from sin?

Moreover do you know that this same word which is here translated as pure or faultless or holy is used for Yahya (John) earlier in this chapter, do you understand him to be perfect too?

And (made him) sympathetic to men as a mercy (or a grant) from Us, and pure from sins [i.e. Yahya (John)] and he was righteous, (Maryam 19:13)

Moreover by way of seeing your understanding, may I ask, when you recieve you new body at the resurrection which is pure in order to be with God, will that mean due to your cleansing from sin that you in this new form will be God, due to your purity/faultlesness?

Regards,
Br.'Eesa al-Habeshi