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snakelegs
04-18-2007, 03:26 AM
i simply cannot understand religious debates. everyday they rage here - sometimes with insults and great disrespect. the same old points are raised and debated, offering "proof" from each's holy books.
what is the point in this??? what are you hoping to achieve?i think we need to respect other people's beliefs, not attempt to prove how they are wrong. you all feel very strongly about your religious beliefs - why don't you concentrate on practicing them better rather than trying to prove how yours is right and the others are all wrong?
:raging: :raging: :raging: :raging:
:enough!:
thankyou, i feel much better. :hiding:
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Talibatul Ilm
04-18-2007, 03:30 AM
lol, needed to vent?
usually when debates occur people are even MORE stuck to theier beliefs and even if they know theyre wrong, out of pride they wont change anything. so therefore, most of the time nothing comes out of debating. Allahu alim, we must be careful when even getting involved with this. like you mentioned, people sometimes insult one another and are too strong with their words, sometimes people say things without proof, sometimes people just debate for the sake of attention. and Allah knows best. may He correct our affairs and make us do everything for the sake of Allah.
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snakelegs
04-18-2007, 04:22 AM
if a person's faith is strong, there is no need to try to prove another's wrong, is there?
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Keltoi
04-18-2007, 04:24 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
if a person's faith is strong, there is no need to try to prove another's wrong, is there?
I've made this point repeatedly, but I still fall into the trap of responding to attacks on my faith. I enjoy discussing comparative religion in a worthwhile and respective way, but those kind of conversations are rare.
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Eric H
04-18-2007, 07:27 AM
Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs,

Thank you for starting this thread, it seems a craziness that we have freewill to believe as we like, but it would be better if every one believed as I do. That kind of takes away the need for free choice in beliefs.

I think the world would be very sad and boring if everyone believed exactly as I believe, I welcome diversity. The same God created each and every one of us more with the intention that we should strive to change ourselves than change other people.

The greater challenge is how do we love all our neighbours as we love ourselves and live in peace with them?

In the spirit of praying to the creator of all that is seen and unseen,

Eric
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E'jaazi
04-18-2007, 07:57 AM
Debates are just another way to spread dawah, or the word. It's just a shame that people attack each other with insults.
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aamirsaab
04-18-2007, 09:23 AM
:sl:
I think this statement sums it all up:

Religions are to be followed, not debated.

p.s; thanks for starting this thread and raising that point.
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vpb
04-18-2007, 09:32 AM
Surah Al-Imran:

19. The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.

20. So if they dispute with thee, say: "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book (Christians and Jews) and to those who are unlearned: "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah.s sight are (all) His servants.
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ummAbdillah
04-18-2007, 10:38 AM
salaam
Debates are good if they are done in a proper manor.
think we need to respect other people's beliefs
Yeah, true. the insults must stop.
wa salaam
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AvarAllahNoor
04-18-2007, 11:07 AM
God
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Woodrow
04-18-2007, 01:02 PM
People just seem to have a need to debate. Religious debates come to be the most common subject for debate. Almost everybody has an opinion about religion.

A big error that many people make in debating religion is for them to make a statement, followed with a challenge for somebody to prove the statement is wrong.

People seem to fail to understand that it is impossible to prove that something is wrong. When a statement is made the burden is upon them to prove the statement is true, not upon anyone to prove it is false.

Many if not most people operate under one of 2 impressions.

One being the assumption if they can prove the other person wrong, that makes them right. The other assumption being that if they can prove themselves right that proves the other person is wrong. Both of those assumptions are wrong.

I believe that all a person needs and should do is live and speak as an example of their belief. Speak of the truth of what they believe. Show why what they believe is true. Speak of the truth of why they believe what they do, not try to prove why the other person is wrong.

Sadly, even those who know better, react with emotion and when a statement we disagree with is made we attack and attempt to TELL the other person they are wrong. Often with harsh words. This is very counter productive and results in bitter words.

However, a peaceful debate is usually very dull and not full of any entertainment factors. It is void of emotions and simply statements of fact. People do not see that as being a strong debate and want a debate to be a contest of power with the strongest over running the contender.

A debate should only consist a a few small factions.

Person A makes a statement

Person B says convince me it is right

Person A presents his proof as to why he believes it is true.

Person B then other agrees or simply says, "I'm not convinced"

Everybody says end of debate and goes home.

There is only one challenge in a debate, that challenge is to be able to offer proof as to the truth of what you say.

It also must be remembered that prior to a debate it must be agreed upon as to what source may be used as proof. Without common agreed upon sources, there will be no acceptable proof possible.

The plain facts are:

A Christian is not going to accept the Qur'an as proof.

A Muslim is not going to accept the Bible as proof.

A debate between them is flawed because they are not discussing the same thing. So,the result is anger.

As Muslims I believe that before we can move onto any debate with non-Muslims we have to win the basic debate first. That debate is for us to offer proof that the Qur'an is the truth. We also need to keep in mind that a non-believer can not be expected to accept the Qur'an as proof that the Qur'an is the word of Allah(swt). We need to offer proof from other sources. Throughout this forum we have done that, or are attempting to do that. Some will accept it as proof . Inshallah

Until we can prove the Qur'an is the Word of Allah(swt) to a Non-Muslim, we have no mutual ground for debate of any other matter. So, any other debate is simply wasted words.

We need to avoid the temptation to attack or try to prove words we disagree with. We should just simply ask "offer your proof, from a source we can accept as truth."
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Eric H
04-18-2007, 07:21 PM
Greetings and peace be with you aamirsaab;
Religions are to be followed, not debated.
There is so much wisdom in this short statement, we should strive to change ourselves rather than change others.

Blessings and peace be with you

Eric
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duskiness
04-18-2007, 09:57 PM
Wow - Snakelegs - the most calm person here had to speak it out? :)
you are right to say that there is a lot of aggression in religious debates. Our faith in Truth(s) and our emotion make us blind, insensitive and -often- foolish.
Sometimes those debates makes us grow. Usually not.... :)
sometimes we learn. Although rarely.... :)
But there is no other way to live in this world than to talk to those who are different - even if those debates are what they are... :)
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Muezzin
04-18-2007, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
God
Word.
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tomtomsmom
04-18-2007, 10:12 PM
yes those debates do often get very nasty. not sure which is worse-comparative religion or world affairs................
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Keltoi
04-18-2007, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
yes those debates do often get very nasty. not sure which is worse-comparative religion or world affairs................
Probably Word Affairs, people get really upset in there...:D

I also think people are little more humble in the Comparative Religion section because of the weight of the subject matter, but of course that doesn't apply to everyone.
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tomtomsmom
04-18-2007, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Probably Word Affairs, people get really upset in there...:D

Me being one of them. I try to stay away from there but once in a while (like today) I get sucked in............
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