Quran Verses - Explanations required.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Please shed light on these few verses for me please. So I can fathom them.

1- If you fear that you will not act justly towards the orphans, marry such woman' as seem good to you, two, three, four; but if you fear you will not be equitable, then only one, or what your right hands own;

2 - Oh Prophet, We have made lawful for thee thy wives whom thou hast given their wages and what thy right hand owns, spoils of war that God has given thee, and the daughter of thy uncles paternal and aunts paternal, thy uncles maternal and aunts maternal, who have emigrated with thee, and any woman believer, if she give herself to the Prophet and if the Prophet desire to take her in marriage, for thee exclusively, apart from the believers

3 - Does circumcision have to be carried out according to the Quran?

4 - What is this verse meant by? ''Al-Hasan al-Basri narrated: The Messenger of God said, "The only two things I cherish of the life of this world are women and perfume''

5 - Did Mohammed have thirteen wives?

6 - Explain this please ''Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, Youths (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded. S. 52:24 Y. Ali

There wait on them immortal youths With bowls and ewers and a cup from a pure spring.

There wait on them immortal youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls.

I'm trying to get a better understanding as these are the few things i'm having difficulty understandng. I get different responses from different people.

Don't mean any offence.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i know the answer to pretty much all of these Alhamdulillah and i would answer you if i didnt fear that you might midunderstand me.

can i please recommend that you see a scholar of ahlus sunnah? :)

[Confucius]

yups, being a non-expert in tafseer of Qur'an it wouldnt be wise to answer the above questions...rather it may cause more harm than good.

best talking to a scholar...even even then they vary in opinion!

['Abd al-Baari]

Hi

Regrading questions four and five
http://www.islameyat.com/english/issues/mahw/mahw.htm
hope it helps :)

but as the above brother and sister said talk to a scholar..it will give you more of an understanding

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[- Qatada -]

Hey.


The issue of slavery and spoils of war can be read here:

The Islamic position on Slavery: A refutation of doubts


I'll try to get more info for the others inshaa Allaah.


About the issue of young servants going around in paradise - they will serve the people in paradise. And they'll resemble scattered pearls. Nothing confusing about that.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Hi

Regrading questions four and five
http://www.islameyat.com/english/issues/mahw/mahw.htm
hope it helps :)

but as the above brother and sister said talk to a scholar..it will give you more of an understanding

Thanks

Is this bit true?

"The Messenger of God said, 'Gabriel met me with a pot, of which I ate, and I was given the kafit [sexual ability] of forty men.' "Salma narrated: "In one night, the Prophet had intercourse with his nine wives (who were to out-live him). When he would come out each time he would say, 'Pour water for me.' He would wash before having sex with the following one. I asked him 'O, Messenger of God, isn't one time of washing enough for you?' The Prophet replied, 'This is purer and better.' "

[- Qatada -]

It may be true ^ i have heard in a lecture about the strength of 40 men narration, however - they havn't quoted the source for the rest of it so Allaah knows best.

[- Qatada -]

Regarding the circumcision:

It was reported from Salmaan ibn ‘Aamir (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “For the boy there should be an ‘aqeeqah. Slaughter (an animal) for him and remove the harmful thing [i.e., the foreskin] from him.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1515; al-Nasaa’i, 4214; Abu Dawood, 2839; Ibn Maajah, 3164. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Albaani, may Allaah have mercy on him, in al-Irwaa’, 4/396).

So it is done according to the Sunnah, i'm not sure the hows, but any doctor can tell you if you ask. Probably any average person knows.


You can get more info regarding the wives of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) from here:

http://www.islamonline.net/English/i...es/index.shtml


And the issue of perfume and women has been explained in a previous link:

"These four are of the traditions of the Messengers [of God]: shyness, wearing perfume, brushing the teeth with siwak, and wedlock." A woman is the best object of enjoyment of this world: "Life is an object of enjoyment, and there is nothing better in the pleasures of the world than a good women." The conditions [or descriptions] of a good wife, however, are: She should bring delight to her husband whenever he looks at her, and obey him whenever he commands her to do something [so long as it doesn't oppose Islamic teachings.]

[AvarAllahNoor]

Regarding the circumcision:

It was reported from Salmaan ibn ‘Aamir (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “For the boy there should be an ‘aqeeqah. Slaughter (an animal) for him and remove the harmful thing [i.e., the foreskin] from him.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1515; al-Nasaa’i, 4214; Abu Dawood, 2839; Ibn Maajah, 3164. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Albaani, may Allaah have mercy on him, in al-Irwaa’, 4/396).

So it is done according to the Sunnah, i'm not sure the hows, but any doctor can tell you if you ask. Probably any average person knows.


You can get more info regarding the wives of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) from here:

http://www.islamonline.net/English/i...es/index.shtml


And the issue of perfume and women has been explained in a previous link:

[INDENT]


[/INDENT

"These four are of the traditions of the Messengers [of God]: shyness, wearing perfume, brushing the teeth with siwak, and wedlock." A woman is the best object of enjoyment of this world: "Life is an object of enjoyment, and there is nothing better in the pleasures of the world than a good women." The conditions [or descriptions] of a good wife, however, are: She should bring delight to her husband whenever he looks at her, and obey him whenever he commands her to do something [so long as it doesn't oppose Islamic teachings.]

To an outsider this would just shed light on lust. As all it refers to is what a woman is. Why? It's confusing

[AvarAllahNoor]

It may be true ^ i have heard in a lecture about the strength of 40 men narration, however - they havn't quoted the source for the rest of it so Allaah knows best.

May? how does one know what is true or not. Surely this would be mentioned in the Hadiths>? (or sura) :)

[- Qatada -]

To an outsider this would just shed light on lust. As all it refers to is what a woman is. Why? It's confusing

This is when you have to look into the whole picture, if we look into the context of the situation - what would the King of a whole nation do? Would he live a poor life? Because he did that when he had power over a whole nation. Would he get married to widows? Or would he marry all virgins?

Let's see the table:

Name of Bride/----------------/ Age at marriage/-------------/ Comments
Khadija bin Khuwailid /---------------/ 40 /-------------------/twice widowed before
Sawda bint Zam'ah /-------------------/ 50 /-------------------------------/ widow
Aisha bint Abi Bakr /------------------/ 9 /-----------/ Started living with the prophet at the age of 9.
Hafsa bint Umar /---------------------/ 22 /-------------------/ widow
Zaynab bint Khuzaimah /-----------/ 30 /--------------------/
Umm Salamah bint A.U. /-----------/ 26 /--------------------/ widow
Zaynab bint Jahsh /------------------/ 38 /--------------------/ widow
Juwayriyyah bint Harith /------------/ 20 /--------------------/ widow
Umm Habiba bint A.S. /------------/ 36 /--------------------/ widow
Safiyyah bint Huyay /----------------/ 17 /--------------------/ widow
Maymuna bint Harith /-------------/ 36 /--------------------/ widow

The majority of the Prophet's wives were middle-aged widows!


Also - if it was all simply on lust, why didn't he get married to many women at the prime of his youth? Let's look at it this way - he never got married to anyone till the age of 25, and he never had an immoral history - everyone titled him Al-Ameen [the trustworthy], and Al-Saadiq [the truthful.] - even his enemies called him that. Infact, his first marriage to Khadija was a proposal from Khadija to him because he was working for her as a business man. She knew his honesty and therefore she proposed to him, and guess how old she was? 40. She had been twice widowed and she proposed to him so he accepted.

He loved her, and she loved him. They stayed with each other until she died. Later on he only got married to Aa'isha, and then after that there were other women who had left their homes for the sake of Allaah, their husbands had died and they never had nowhere to live - so he married them to make their life easier for them. And guess what? None of them had anything evil to say about him. Infact they loved him alot. He never divorced them either, so how could it simply be for lust?

May? how does one know what is true or not. Surely this would be mentioned in the Hadiths>? (or sura) :)

Yes, therefore we would need a source for that quote. :) I.e. what collection the hadith is collected in, its volume/number etc.

[Malaikah]

:sl:

Just wanted to add, the reference to scattered pearls is also a way of emphasising the beauty of the young servants in paradise.

[Umar001]

To an outsider this would just shed light on lust. As all it refers to is what a woman is. Why? It's confusing

That's under the assumption that all that's wanted is sex.

[- Qatada -]

To an outsider this would just shed light on lust. As all it refers to is what a woman is. Why? It's confusing

By the way, that hadith was referring to a virtuous woman i.e. a woman you can trust, and she can trust you, someone who is pious, chaste etc.

Someone who has the desire of beauty and popularity etc. doesn't really want to be in a commited relationship, they just want to take the pleasure and desire and then move on. And that wasn't the Prophetic way.


The outsider needs to look at all sides of the situation, and i'm glad you got an open mind init. :)


Regards.

[AvarAllahNoor]

The outsider needs to look at all sides of the situation, and i'm glad you got an open mind init. :)


Regards.

True. I'm realy trying, but even some verses in the Bible make me query it. Sikhi has none of this. Nothing that sheds light on women as such things. :-S

[AvarAllahNoor]

That's under the assumption that all that's wanted is sex.

Why so many? Jesus had none isn't that the way of the Prophet to be?

[- Qatada -]

Trust me, i remember posting a similar hadith in a thread quite a while back. And that thread was about some guys in india selling their wives to people so their wives could bring some extra money into the household.

Think about it - one of the best enjoyments in life which a man can have is to have a wife to help him through his good and bad. She's like a companion for him and they help each other out through the difficulties they face in life. They help each other remain chaste, and they have the right to enjoy each other since Allaah has permitted that for them.

[- Qatada -]

Why so many? Jesus had none isn't that the way of the Prophet to be?

Try looking in the jewish and christian scriptures, :) Prophet Solomon [Sulaiman] had around 100 wives, there were many Prophets who had more than one wife and its mentioned within their scriptures till today. It's a natural fact, since there are more women in the world, and men are more polygamous by nature whereas a woman is happy with one man/protector etc.


I remember in other threads about why women weren't allowed to have more than one husband, the arguments put forward were the fact that the common question would be: "Who's the daddy?!" and even if you say DNA tests, that wasn't always possible to put into practise, and people in poor countries still can't perform that test today.

You have to ask yourself - who would be the father of the children? Would every man bring in money from work while the woman stays at home looking after them all? How much time would she spend with them all once she was pregnant? We also know that it's not permissible for a man to have intercourse with his wife while she is in her menses, and thats scientifically proven to be harmful for both the male and the female - so what else would there be besides chaos within these relationships?


Men are the providers of the women, and if you read the verse you quoted about men marrying more than one wife:

To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

[Qur'an 4: 2-3]

If someone fears they won't be able to treat them fairly, then they can only get married to one. And we know that the Messenger of Allaah treated all his wives fairly and justly.

Also in regard to Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon them) - we know that he will come back to the earth again - slay the Anti-Christ [Al-Dajjaal] and then he will live in this world, get married and have a family - then he will die a natural death.



Shall i tell you something shocking? It wasn't actually Islaam that brought this idea of polygamy forward - infact this was the common practise where men could have unlimited wives all over the world. So Islaam is what actually limited it.

It's also quite shocking that the some people who actually attack Islaam for allowing polygamy find nothing wrong with having a girlfriend or having a mistress etc. Infact there is no law in the west today which stops a guy from having a million girlfriends, but he can only have one wife. You have to question why they do that? When they even know that guys are by nature like this? And if the guy cheats on his wife, she can't do nothing about it.. is that really fair?


If you agree, but you disagree with the idea of polygamy. What is to happen to those women who never get to get married? Imagine every guy in the world getting married to one woman each, what about all the 'excess' women who dont have a husband? Because we know that without a doubt the number of women is greater than the number of men in the world. What will happen to these women? Remember that these women may also have urges to want to get married, so shouldn't they have the right to get married to someone so long as this person treats his wives fairly and justly? Or should they be forced into prostitution - which is a common practise today? I think you'll agree that polygamy is the better option. If not - what other better alternative is there?



And Allaah Almighty knows best.


Regards.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Yes I realise all this. Seems bizzare. Same with Soloman and David, having so many wives would NOT be the way of any Prophet. Something I can't get my head around. The Messenger of Allah would only have one f ocus, that would be to relay the Message of our Master not indulge in numerous wives. (as these are sins of the flesh) Something as I keep saying is not likely of a Prophet!

Oh well we shall see when we are summoned, then we shall see who is wrong, and who is right.

OK another question. If Mohammed is the last, then why do you await the Mahidi?

[- Qatada -]

Yes I realise all this. Seems bizzare. Same with Soloman and David, having so many wives would NOT be the way of any Prophet. Something I can't get my head around. The Messenger of Allah would only have on focus, that would be to relay the Message of our Master not indulge in numerous wives. (as this sins of the flesh) Something as I keep saying is not likely of a Prophet!

If Allaah has permitted it for them, then it is allowed. It's Allaah who decides what's wrong and right, not us. :)

Oh well we shall see when we are summoned to who is worng and who is right.

True, without a doubt. But we also have to realise that there is no turning back after that day so you have to be really sincere in this life in order to find the truth.


Allaah says:

“O My slaves, all of you are astray except those whom I guide, so ask Me for guidance, and I will guide you. O My slaves, all of you are hungry except those whom I feed, so ask me for food and I will feed you. O My slaves, all of you are naked except those whom I clothe, so ask Me for clothing and I will clothe you. … O My slaves, if the first of you and the last of you, your humans and your jinn, were to stand on a single plain and ask of Me and I were to give each one what he asked for, that would not cause any loss to Me greater than what is lost when a needle is dipped into the sea.”

Narrated by Muslim (2577).

OK another question. If Mohammed is the last, then why do you await the Mahidi?

The Mahdi is someone who will help the muslims, there is a hadith recorded in Abi Dawud which mentions that every century there will be someone who will revive Islaam for the muslims [known as a Mujaddid.] These people don't bring anything new into the religion, they just call back to it [the teachings of Qur'an and Authentic Sunnah.] The scholars agree that Umar ibn Abdul Aziz was the first reviver on the first century of Hijrah. And there were others as time has progressed.

The Mahdi will also be a Mujaddid and he won't bring any new message, nor will he be a prophet of Allaah. But he has been prophecised by the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) also - & he will also revive Islaam and remove injustice on the earth the same way it was spread with injustice before.


If you're confused about the Messiah - Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon them) returning to the earth, he will also come as a follower and apply the law which was revealed to Allaah's final Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him.) Since we know that he wasn't killed, rather he was raised to the heavens by Allaah for a temporary amount of time, until Allaah wills for him to return.


And Allaah Almighty knows best.


Regards. :)

[AvarAllahNoor]

I read he will bring a new law and a new book? Or is this a lie?

Also you say Allah has permitted it. Has not permitted it in our Scriptures. Or none of the Prophets of Sikhism folowed it in their lives. That to me is more feasible. :D

[- Qatada -]

I read he will bring a new law and a new book? Or is this a lie?

Whoever you hear from needs to bring proof from Qur'an or Authentic Sunnah for their claim. I havn't ever heard of anything like that at all.

Also you say Allah has permitted it. Has not permitted it in our Scriptures. Or none of the Prophets of Sikhism folowed it in their lives. That to me is more feasible. :D

What Prophets were there in Sikhism?

[ummzayd]

Yes I realise all this. Seems bizzare. Same with Soloman and David, having so many wives would NOT be the way of any Prophet. Something I can't get my head around. The Messenger of Allah would only have one f ocus, that would be to relay the Message of our Master not indulge in numerous wives. (as these are sins of the flesh) Something as I keep saying is not likely of a Prophet!

Does Sikhism teach that sex even between husbands and wives is a sin?

In Islam husbands and wives are rewarded for every time they have intercourse (ie it is seen as a good deed, the opposite of a sin to put it simply).

It is God who ordained the means of procreation and who made it a source of pleasure and closeness between husband and wife.

It is not a sin, or dirty or anything that any married couple should be ashamed of. why should a Prophet be ashamed of doing something which God has made a pure and lawful act: ie having sex within marriage.

I think you'll find that in the 3 abrahamic faiths the majority of the Prophets were extremely virile and had more than one wife.

peace

[Malaikah]

Yes I realise all this. Seems bizzare. Same with Soloman and David, having so many wives would NOT be the way of any Prophet. Something I can't get my head around. The Messenger of Allah would only have one f ocus, that would be to relay the Message of our Master not indulge in numerous wives. (as these are sins of the flesh) Something as I keep saying is not likely of a Prophet!

His (pbuh) having multiple wives was very important for Islam.

I don't have time for detail, so I'll be quick:

1. It created important ties with other tribes/clans/ whatever they are called that were very significant politically for the Muslims.

2. We have hundreds of people to explain to use about the prophets life outside of his home, his political life, how he acted in the mosque etc... and yet if he had only one wife we would have had only ONE woman to teach us about his personal life. It would have been impossible for only one woman to be able to pass on sufficient information to the whole ummah about how he lives his personal life so we can learn from it.

How strange that you expect a messenger to have only one purpose in life... should he give up eating and drinking too because it is a distraction? What good would a sexually deprived prophet be to anyone? And if he didn't have wives, how can we expect him to teach us how we should be with our own families?

Lastly, there is more to marriage than lust!!!

[Muslim Knight]

On that note, when the Prophet migrated to Madinah, the number of followers of Islam were growing, and there was need for more women teachers. How else can the religion and conduct in marriage and family be taught so intimately without provoking scandal? So the ideal solution was to marry the number of wives. In addition to that, political allies can be gained and ties of kinship can be strengthened (as in the marriage of the Prophet to one of his Companions' daughter (Saidina Umar's daughter Hafsah))

So the wives of the Prophet were called Ummul Mu'minin (Mothers of Believers). They learned about religion directly from the Prophet and the believers' wives learned from them. This way it leaves the Prophet free to move around to preach the religion and teach believers who are men.

[Umar001]

Why so many? Jesus had none isn't that the way of the Prophet to be?

Two points;

1. Your assuming that the text from which you derive Jesus' life from is an accurate account.

2. Do you understand the circumstance of Jesus?

[B]Yes I realise all this. Seems bizzare. Same with Soloman and David, having so many wives would NOT be the way of any Prophet. Something I can't get my head around. The Messenger of Allah would only have one f ocus, that would be to relay the Message of our Master not indulge in numerous wives. (as these are sins of the flesh) Something as I keep saying is not likely of a Prophet!

That's a presumption, your presuming that having more than one wife is bad.

The Message of God in my view includes reproduction, it includes the sanctity of marriage, the key factor is my friend, I view marriage as a form of worship, from me spending on my wife to me being intimate with her, it is all worship if done correctly, so in reality a Messenger would be worshipping God by being married, which is exactly what I would expect.

Also you say Allah has permitted it. Has not permitted it in our Scriptures. Or none of the Prophets of Sikhism folowed it in their lives. That to me is more feasible. :D

Did they have one wife?

[Ghira]

I think AvarAllah person has no intention to gain knowledge and understand Islam he/she picks some hadiths that need explanation from a scholar and try to put down Islam. If you sincerely want to learn the religion first learn the basics of belief (Creator, Angels, Prophets/Messengers, books), what we practice in Islam and why we do it. Then you can ask these questions to a scholar or search the respected sites.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Nah ^ i think Avar's a safe guy compared to alot of other people who join the site :) he doesn't attack and just questions, like if it was a hater or anti-islamist, they would be arguing right now still lol.

[mustafajadeed]

Salam Alaykoom:

Q 18: 1-2 Explains that The Book is Straight and Clear with out crookedness.

I say this to remind every that the "Scholars" of Islam are not a "Priesthood" as the other religions tend to put their own on the Pedestal, we are not supposed to. They are merely your Brothers in the Faith and Human. Even in various Hadith you will see where our Scholars had to go ask others to verify things, some of those others were not always fellow scholars.

Sometimes you actually do have to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave...for yourself.

That said, "what your right hand possess" did mean slaves and captives of war. Do we still have those things now? We are not supposed to, but we quietly do in some countries.

They forgot that their "servants and slaves" under Islam are to be treated as you would yourself.

They eat like you, dress like you, are not over worked as you would not over work yourself, ect.

The Servants of the Hereafter (like scattered pearls) are just to let you know how beautiful they are, that is all.

The Prophet (saw) had eleven total wives as I remember. In the Qur'an (I do not remember the Ayat right off) it tells you that that was a thing for him, and you have what you are supposed to have (up to 4- if you can take care of that many properly).

Somethings are simply what they are....

salam alay koom

[Ghira]

Salam Alaykoom:

Q 18: 1-2 Explains that The Book is Straight and Clear with out crookedness.

I say this to remind every that the "Scholars" of Islam are not a "Priesthood" as the other religions tend to put their own on the Pedestal, we are not supposed to. They are merely your Brothers in the Faith and Human. Even in various Hadith you will see where our Scholars had to go ask others to verify things, some of those others were not always fellow scholars.

Sometimes you actually do have to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave...for yourself.

That said, "what your right hand possess" did mean slaves and captives of war. Do we still have those things now? We are not supposed to, but we quietly do in some countries.

They forgot that their "servants and slaves" under Islam are to be treated as you would yourself.

They eat like you, dress like you, are not over worked as you would not over work yourself, ect.

The Servants of the Hereafter (like scattered pearls) are just to let you know how beautiful they are, that is all.

The Prophet (saw) had eleven total wives as I remember. In the Qur'an (I do not remember the Ayat right off) it tells you that that was a thing for him, and you have what you are supposed to have (up to 4- if you can take care of that many properly).

Somethings are simply what they are....

salam alay koom

:sl:

I just wanted to add to your post. You are right in that we don't have a priesthood in Islam. The scholars are our brothers and faith. I am only adding to what you said about Scholars of Islam. :)

Allah states 3x time in Surah Al-Qamar
"And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?"

The Qur'an is easy to understand and opens people's hearts to the truth. There is some verses and hadith that needs explanation by a knowledgeable scholar of Islam. The scholars have a greater responsibilty than us normal people.

Prophet saw said "Allah does not take away the knowledge, by taking it away from (the hearts of) the people, but takes it away by the death of the religious learned men till when none of the (religious learned men) remains, people will take as their leaders ignorant persons who when consulted will give their verdict without knowledge. So they will go astray and will lead the people astray."

The Prophet (saw) said "What I fear most for my Ummah (nation) is corrupt scholars."

The Propet (saw) said "The Ulima (scholars in Islam) is the heirs of the Prophet."

The Quran says “O you who believe, obey Allah and obey His Messenger and those in authority among you...” (Al Nisa:59)

[Medina83]

What good would a sexually deprived prophet be to anyone?

Salam sister
I was agreeing with all your post until I read this.
Remember Jesus (Isha) sallAllahu alaihe wa salam did not have a wife.
And he fulfilled his prophetic mission until his ascension into heaven from Allah subhana wa ta'ala.

Just thought in your well-intentioned enthusiasm, this little piece may need correction, i think you understand elhamdulillah what i'm trying to say :)

[Malaikah]

:sl:

I totally understand what you mean, but Jesus didn't live as long as Muhammad pbuh did and when he comes back he will get married anyway... plus not everyone is the same, it might have been okay for Jesus but not for other Propthets.

To think that is somehow wrong for a prophet not to get married just doesn't make any sense.

But your point makes sense, thanks. :)

[Medina83]

:sl:

I totally understand what you mean, but Jesus didn't live as long as Muhammad pbuh did and when he comes back he will get married anyway... plus not everyone is the same, it might have been okay for Jesus but not for other Propthets.

To think that is somehow wrong for a prophet not to get married just doesn't make any sense.

Of course and i totally agree with you on this :)

[AvarAllahNoor]

OK....

Been a tad busy so have not been posting as much....(yes I know I've been missed)

OK, Sikhism has Ten Prophets (Gurus, thought that was well known?)

Lady who asked if sex during marraige is permissable, and if it's a sin? No it's not a sin, BUT we are told our main concern should not be getting into lust with the wife. Although sexual intercourse is necessary. But should not be the controlling force. - The Gurus had a wife. And some remarried if the one died. So, it's allowed. Like Bro Fasbillah says, i'm trying to learn, but that does not mean i can accept all things addressed, just as you may not accept some of the Sikh beliefs. SO, we can agree to disagree. This makes a better person. :D

[NoName55]

wife = lawful relationship
lust = greed or illicit thing, lecherousness:
self-indulgent sexual desire (personified as one of the deadly sins)

[Muslim Knight]

OK....

Been a tad busy so have not been posting as much....(yes I know I've been missed)

OK, Sikhism has Ten Prophets (Gurus, thought that was well known?)

Lady who asked if sex during marraige is permissable, and if it's a sin? No it's not a sin, BUT we are told our main concern should not be getting into lust with the wife. Although sexual intercourse is necessary. But should not be the controlling force. - The Gurus had a wife. And some remarried if the one died. So, it's allowed. Like Bro Fasbillah says, i'm trying to learn, but that does not mean i can accept all things addressed, just as you may not accept some of the Sikh beliefs. SO, we can agree to disagree. This makes a better person. :D

One of the many functions of marriage in Islam is to channel that lust. Sex outside of marriage is sinful, but inside it can be a form of worship because it is righteous deed. How so? The couple makes the intention that the intercourse is aimed at producing offspring who will then be educated and nurtured to become good Muslims, and worshipper of the One God, and naturally they will become good individuals who will only enjoin the good and forbid evil.

And while they're at it, the enjoyment becomes a reward from God, because the married couple abstain from lusting after others outside the bond of marriage, hence avoid many compounding many other problems like infidelity, jealousy and worst, maybe murder because of jealousy.

Hence the function of marriage in Islam is not confined to merely lust, but to the development of good family unit, the preservation of honorable lineage, that contributes to the protection of society values and integrity.

[Malaikah]

SO, we can agree to disagree. This makes a better person. :D

Agree to disagree on what exactly? You acted like it was a bad thing the Prophet was married and that it doesn't befit a Prophet to marry- and now you are saying your own gurus were married!

Am I the only one confused here? :?

[- Qatada -]

Avar, so if you don't accept the previos prophets of God, who actually came to all of mankind before that time? :) Was all of mankind astray for milleniums, until according to Sikhi beliefs - Allaah chose Guru Nanak as the first prophet?


Thanks in advance.

[Mohsin]

AvarAllahNoor

I was under the impression you believe in prophet muhammed as a previous prophet. This is something God must have allowed him, so can I ask why are you questioning it? Thanx

[AvarAllahNoor]

No Malikh I said that having SO MANY Wives were not the deeds of the Messenger of God, not that one should be betrothed. - Then you seem to beleive it's all justified and then each woman would have how many children? which would lead to an increase in muslims all over the wrold. Is this how the figure of growing Islam is calculated?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Avar, so if you don't accept the previos prophets of God, who actually came to all of mankind before that time? :) Was all of mankind astray for milleniums, until according to Sikhi beliefs - Allaah chose Guru Nanak as the first prophet?


Thanks in advance.

I've said we do, but that does not mean what was written down is the truth. I can follow any scripture that was not written down by the Prophet that was appointed by God. How can such a message (Word of God) be left to others to reveal and distribute? This is not feasible. Guru Nanak was not the first messenger, there were many Jesus, Moses, Krishan, Mohammed. But they failed for obvious reasons. Sikh Gurus did not. Read up on the history and find anything (from relaiable sources not hindufied crap peddling) that does not sit correct and then we can dicuss it. Nothing about any of the Gurus can be stated to be un religious and not worthy of Messenger status by God. They conformed to his will. :)

[NoName55]

It is going from bad to worse, one distortion after another!

have how many children? which would lead to an increase in muslims all over the wrold. Is this how the figure of growing Islam is calculated?

where are those with multiple wives? I never seem to meet any

How many children did the Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H have? eh?

[AvarAllahNoor]

AvarAllahNoor

I was under the impression you believe in prophet muhammed as a previous prophet. This is something God must have allowed him, so can I ask why are you questioning it? Thanx

I question it because as i stated before it is not the kind of thing a Prophet would be doing. Then i also say God sent many messengers and they did not obey his command. Just as you beleive the Christians faltered The same goes for others.

BTW - Sorry for my spelling I'm rushing and I'm making mistakes in the spelling. lol

[AvarAllahNoor]

It is going from bad to worse, one distortion after another!


where are those with multiple wives? I never seem to meet any

Not in England you won't it's illegal. Arabia perhaps?

I've built up this picture Islam is good but some of the verses throw me off it. Still as Guru Nanak said we should respect the ways of others and just better ourselves as we learn more. :statisfie

[- Qatada -]

I've said we do, but that does not mean what was written down is the truth. I can follow any scripture that was not written down by the Prophet that was appointed by God. How can such a message (Word of God) be left to others to reveal and distribute? This is not feasible. Guru Nanak was not the first messenger, there were many Jesus, Moses, Krishan, Mohammed. But they failed for obvious reasons. Sikh Gurus did not. Read up on the history and find anything (from relaiable sources not hindufied crap peddling) that does not sit correct and then we can dicuss it. Nothing about any of the Gurus can be stated to be un religious and not worthy of Messenger status by God. They conformed to his will. :)

Do they not then consider the Qur'ân carefully? Had it been from other than Allâh, they would surely have found therein much contradictions. [Qur'an 4:82]

We know that the bible is flawed since it has many clear contradictions in, the jews strayed from the religion of Moses and got ideas of reincarnation from other religions.

Maybe you could prove to us the contradictions in Qur'an? Since there are none. And we know that prophets never called to the idea of re-incarnation, infact they called man to worship their Creator & Sustainer Alone, and they warned them of the Day of Judgement when we would return to Him and be judged on all that we did in this world. Then we would either be rewarded or punished for our obedience or disobedience to Allaah & the Messenger sent to us, and we know that without a doubt - Allaah's final Messenger is Muhammad (peace be upon him.)

[AvarAllahNoor]

If he was the seal of the Prophets, then why would Jesus return again? that would make him the last would it not? And, I hear that Mohammed had a seal between his shoulder blades is this correct, or just a myth?

[NoName55]

...............
.................
................
Allaah's final Messenger is Muhammad (peace be upon him.)

ماشالله


جزاکالله خیران



:w:

[- Qatada -]

If he was the seal of the Prophets, then why would Jesus return again? that would make him the last would it not? And, I hear that Mohammed had a seal between his shoulder blades is this correct, or just a myth?

Yes, it is correct.


In regard to Jesus son of Mary coming back, he never died since he was raised upto Allaah for a temporary amount of time. Then he will return and apply the sharia' [laws etc.] revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) and he will clarify to the people that he is not the son of God, rather he is His slave. He will break the cross and slay the pig, and he won't come with a new message, rather he will kill the anti-christ, and he will establish justice on the earth by the will of Allaah.

Now you might ask, why will Jesus apply the law revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him)? Jesus son of Mary won't come with a new law, and therefore he won't be coming back as a prophet anyway - but instead as the Messiah. That's because when Jesus came, he came to the children of Israeel and the people surrounding him. When he returns - even christians believe he will come and fight the anti-christ, and this is part of the jihaad which will take place. Even christians who believe that Jesus brought a message of peace know that he will return and fight the anti-christ, and obviously he would have to follow the laws revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) since his message is preserved and accepted in the sight of Allaah up till the Day of Judgement.


So there is no contradiction. :)



Regards.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Like the islamic kalima: La Ilaha Illallah, No God but God.
Seal of the Prophets can also mean a certain line , like the abrahamic line of prophecy. Seal does not even mean "last".

[AvarAllahNoor]

If someone says that Allah was bounded by some book say Holy Koran and Rasol was the last prophet then we are trying to bind overpowerfull Allah.If Allah wants Billions of more powerfull Rasools than Muhammed, then they can be creted in second by Allah. Simply stating Mohammed himself said he's the last means nothing to the likes of me. It would be like saying ''well Guru Gobind Singh Ji said he's the Final so there'' :P

[- Qatada -]

Like the islamic kalima: La Ilaha Illallah, No God but God.
Seal of the Prophets can also mean a certain line , like the abrahamic line of prophecy. Seal does not even mean "last".

Seal means that it's closed. :)


The arabic for it is in surah Ahzaab [33] - maa kaana muhammadun abaa ahadumirijaalin wa laakinRasoolAllaah, wa khaataminabiyeen.


You know this anyway since you're a punjabi, khatam means finished. :) And Allaah knows best.

He is the Last of the Prophets


[وَلَـكِن رَّسُولَ اللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَىْءٍ عَلِيماً]


(but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever All-Aware of everything.) This is like the Ayah:


[اللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ حَيْثُ يَجْعَلُ رِسَالَتَهُ]


(Allah knows best with whom to place His Message) (6:124). This Ayah clearly states that there will be no Prophet after him. If there will be no Prophet after him then there will surely be no Messenger after him either, because the status of a Messenger is higher than that of a Prophet, for every Messenger is a Prophet but the reverse is not the case. This was reported in many Mutawatir Hadiths narrated from the Messenger of Allah via a group of his Companions, may Allah be pleased with them. Imam Ahmad recorded a narration from Ubayy bin Ka`b, from his father that the Prophet said:


«مَثَلِي فِي النَّبِيِّينَ كَمَثَلِ رَجُلٍ بَنَى دَارًا فَأَحْسَنَهَا وَأَكْمَلَهَا، وَتَرَكَ فِيهَا مَوْضِعَ لَبِنَةٍ لَمْ يَضَعْهَا، فَجَعَلَ النَّاسُ يَطُوفُونَ بِالْبُنْيَانِ وَيَعْجَبُونَ مِنْهُ وَيَقُولُونَ: لَوْ تَمَّ مَوْضِعُ هَذِهِ اللَّبِنَةِ، فَأَنَا فِي النَّبِيِّينَ مَوْضِعُ تِلْكَ اللَّبِنَة»


(My parable among the Prophets is that of a man who built a house and did a good and complete job, apart from the space of one brick which he did not put in its place. The people started to walk around the building, admiring it and saying, "If only that brick were put in its place. '' Among the Prophets, I am like that brick.) It was also recorded by At-Tirmidhi, who said "Hasan Sahih.''




http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=33&tid=41783

[Mohsin]

AvarAllahNoor

I was under the impression you believe in prophet muhammed as a previous prophet. This is something God must have allowed him, so can I ask why are you questioning it? Thanx

I question it because as i stated before it is not the kind of thing a Prophet would be doing. Then i also say God sent many messengers and they did not obey his command. Just as you beleive the Christians faltered The same goes for others.

BTW - Sorry for my spelling I'm rushing and I'm making mistakes in the spelling. lol

We don't believe any prophets faltered. they may have made minor mistakes, but it is a pillar of our belief that prophets don't sin.

So one minute, before i go further, please let me get one thing straight, so you believe God sent prophets, like Muhammed, Jesus, Moses, but you believe they faltered along the way and made mistakes and so God sent the gurus, who never made mistakes and were perfect in everyway? Is that correct?

You said also "It is not the kind of thing a Prophet would be doing" so you don't believe prophet muhammed is a prophet then? Sorry I am really confused, can you please be more clear with your posts, thanks

Finally, what do you mean by "Just as christians faltered the same goes for others" What christians, and what others are you referring to?

[- Qatada -]

If someone says that Allah was bounded by some book say Holy Koran and Rasol was the last prophet then we are trying to bind overpowerfull Allah.If Allah wants Billions of more powerfull Rasools than Muhammed, then they can be creted in second by Allah. Simply stating Mohammed himself said he's the last means nothing to the likes of me. It would be like saying ''well Guru Gobind Singh Ji said he's the Final so there'' :P

If you believe that the Qur'an was truelly a guidance, then how come you reject it? Isn't it much more logical even compared to Sikhi beliefs? Why is it that all the previous prophets mention that none is worthy of worship except Allaah Alone, and that we will be brought back to Allaah and be judged - then either rewarded with a great reward in the real life of the hereafter or humiliated and punished for taking Allaah's Message in jest.

That was the call of all the Prophets, no soul bears the burden of another. Yet what is so illogical about that? The One who gave us life once and created us when we were nothing can easily bring us back to Him again. That is the truth, so why do you reject it man? Is it just because your forefathers never agreed with it? Because they will be judged according to their own actions, and you will be to your own. And Allaah is the protector of those who believe, He brings them out of darkness of disbelief into the light and guidance towards His reward and Promise.

[AvarAllahNoor]

OK Fabisillah - My forefathers were indeed muslims :D - After hearing of the true message of Guru Nanak they rejected what they were taught for centuries because the message of Guru Nanak was more luring as it was pure and non-confusing. Nobody was to be condemend and no woman would be stoned and equality prevailed.

Mohsin, The "It is not the kind of thing a Prophet would be doing" reffers to the faltered bit.

[- Qatada -]

OK Fabisillah - My forefathers were indeed muslims :D - After hearing of the true message of Guru Nanak they rejected what they were taught for centuries because the message of Guru Nanak was more luring as it was pure and non-confusing. Nobody was to be condemend and no woman would be stoned and equality prevailed.

Okay, so maybe you could explain your belief? What's the purpose of your life? Is it to 'unite' with God as i've heard many Sikhi's say? And how do you believe that happens? Since thats the main aim in your life right?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Unite with God as in his dwelling place, NOBODY can become God. No idea where you've heard that. - Purpose is to live life the way God intended. Hate nobody, love all. Help those that require it and judge none. - Defend the rghts of the unfortunate as they cannot do so themselves. The actions speak louder than words as they say. And above all worship God alone and utter his verses day and night as he has bestowed upon us the gift of life. :D

[Mohsin]

Mohsin, The "It is not the kind of thing a Prophet would be doing" reffers to the faltered bit.[/B]

brother u have not answered my question

if i'm not mistaken, you believe prophet muhammed and the otehr prophets were true prophets, but falterered along the way

but above u say the prophet faltering is not something a prophet would do, so do you or do you not believe they are prophets?

[- Qatada -]

Unite with God as in his dwelling place, NOBODY can become God. No idea where you've heard that.

Is it even logical that a person unites with God in His 'dwelling place'? Since you guys claim that God is everywhere anyway? We believe the eternal home is in Paradise in the presence of Allaah where we will see Him if we obey Allaah and His Messenger [God willing.]

Purpose is to live life the way God intended. Hate nobody, love all.

Yeah, we don't hate the people - we hate the sin. :)

Help those that require it and judge none. - Defend the rghts of the unfortunate as they cannot do so themselves.

Yup, we should help the needy and its a form of charity. We shouldn't judge others too, but if someone does a crime - he should be taken to court.

The actions speak louder than words as they say.

Islaam means submission, and Allaah's Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him) would seek refuge in Allaah from knowledge which wouldn't benefit him. So yeah - we gota put into practise what we learn.

And above all worship God alone and utter his verses day and night as he has bestowed upon us the gift of life. :D

Yeah, so no saints right? :) And also, maybe you could show some miraculousness of the Guru Granth Sahib to explain why you think it's Gods words? :)

[AvarAllahNoor]

Appointed Prophets but lost the way. So, I guess one could say they failed so they are not regarded as Prophets but were sent by Allah no doubt.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Miracles in the Guru Granth Sahin Fas? you won't find nay listed. Unlike other scriptures it's not based on fables and stories like the Quran and Bible and even the Torah and Gita. Guru Granth Shaib can be the only scripture to profess to be the hyms/verses of God and no story telling. Just verse after verse of the Almighty Allah. If you want miracle stories then you'll have to read the Janam Sakhis of the Gurus. they have it detailed.

[Mohsin]

Appointed Prophets but lost the way. So, I guess one could say they failed so they are not regarded as Prophets but were sent by Allah no doubt.

ok khair so we have estabilished that now, alhumdulillah, took a while gettin there, but at least we are there now!

Ok now I would want to ask about your belief of God. Do you believe God can see into the future. Because in Islam we believe God knows the future EXACTLY!

So what I am trying to ask is, why would God appoint messengers, who he knew were going to be bad and would "lose their way". What is the wisdom behind this. I believe God chooses the best of people to be prophets, because otherwise how else are they meant to get the people they are sent to back on the right path? Why choose someone who you know will sin himself? Why choose and appoint a Prophet who will write lies in your name, as you guys think the Prophet Muhammed pbuh has done

Await your answers

[- Qatada -]

So first of all you said you believed in the Prophets but their scripture got distorted, then you said that these true prophets got lost on their way and failed their mission?

That's unbelievable, doesn't God know who He sends as a Messenger? We know that the previous scriptures got altered by the people AFTER the clear signs had come to them, yet you're saying evil things about the prophets and saying that Allaah makes mistakes? It's obvious that what you said is falsehood.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Well to be honest, as Mohammed himself did not write the Quran, I can say what it states to be the words of Moahmemd are not his. so can't be from God. His companions wrote it. Not Mohmmed so, In my opinion his message is unknown to man. So God did see the future but respect is still bestowed upon the Messengers as they were send by God.

[AvarAllahNoor]

God knows all Fasbillah, he knows what you and I are doing YET does he intervene when we do something wrong? no we are left to our own devices.

[- Qatada -]

God knows all Fasbillah, he knows what you and I are doing YET does he intervene when we do something wrong? no we are left to our own devices.

When it comes to someone saying something about Allaah and pretending that they have His Message - then Allaah humiliates that person and gives them an evil death, unless they repent and submit before death overtakes them.

All you're trying to do is prove your claim without any evidence at all, you can't even prove that the Qur'an is distorted since it isn't. But you'll carry on going along with that claim blindly. If this Qur'an was made by humans, then it would have loads of contradictions in, yet you havn't been able to respond to what i've said regarding the Islamic beliefs. Infact, it's your beliefs which i've asked you about many many times yet you havn't responded to them at all.

[Mohsin]

Well to be honest, as Mohammed himself did not write the Quran, I can say what it states to be the words of Moahmemd are not his. so can't be from God. His companions wrote it. Not Mohmmed so, In my opinion his message is unknown to man. So God did see the future but respect is still bestowed upon the Messengers as they were send by God.

brother, as i explained to u when i PM'd you, the companions wrote what the prophet muhammed told them to. he would receive revelation, and would tell his companions to write such and such. The revelation still came down to the prophet.

And dont forget, the Quran was primarily an oral tradition, it was learnt off by heart by hundreds of people then, and now thousands know it today, if i'm not mistaken its something like 10 million muslims 2day know the whole quran off by heart. and its exactly the same whether its in australia, china, pakistan, india or the UK

so the revelation has not been changed, and is the same 2day as was back then. the writing was carefully checked, so the companions would not have recorded it down incorrectly

And as i already explained 2 u, our prophet was an illiterate, that is why it was written down by others. The reason 4 this was so that people cant say later "muhammed copied from the christian sources" or thngs like that, since history bears witness he was an illiterate, and every1 knew him as one

And you keep evading my questions. Why would God choose prophets who he knew would fail? Whats the point???

[Mohsin]

God knows all Fasbillah, he knows what you and I are doing YET does he intervene when we do something wrong? no we are left to our own devices.

Because life is a test, its why we are created. God will reward those who did good, and punish those who did bad

[AvarAllahNoor]

OK, I'll let it rest let Allah decide when we are judged. :D

[Hemoo]

okay first you say that muhammad (P.B.U.H) is indeed a prophet.

i say to you that if you learn about the science of isnad you will know how did muslims preserve their holy books.

and here is what the honest prophet said:

Amir b Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported (On the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) addressing 'All said: You are in the same position with relation to me as Aaron-(Harun) was in relation to Moses but with (this explicit difference) that there is no prophet after me. Sa'd said: I had an earnest desire to hear it directly from Sa'd, so I met him and narrated to him what (his son) Amir had narrated to me, whereupon he said: Yes, I did hear it. I said: Did you hear it yourself? Thereupon he placed his fingers upon his ears and said: Yes, and if not, let both my ears become deaf. (authintic bukhary and muslim)


SO from this hadith we know that any one says he is a prophet after Muhammad (P.B.U.H) then this one is a fake.

[- Qatada -]

OK, I'll let it rest let Allah decide when we are judged. :D

Do you believe you will return to God and be judged by Him? :?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^:X Confuzzledd mayneee.

[Mohsin]

OK, I'll let it rest let Allah decide when we are judged. :D

brother, please answer the question. I genuinely want to know. According to you sikh doctrine believes God sent prophets like adam, jesus moses etc but what they preached was deviant, as they didnt follow all of Gods commandments? Am I correct?

So can you please explain why God (who we both agree to being All-Great, All-Knowing, and knows what people will do in the future) would then chose people to lead mankind to good, but yet God knows these people will eventially turn out to be bad? Why choose such people? What is the wisdom here?

Also on a seperate note, all prophets preached the existence of heaven/hell. That includes Abraham, Noah,Moses,Jesus and Muhammed peace be upon them all.

You're saying this is not true, since the gurus did not teach this. Well I would like to analyse this claim logically

The essence of heaven/hell is that the wrong doers will be punished. Prophet Muhammed pbuh for example several times in the Quran mentions how liars, especially those that claim revelation will end up in the hell-fire. logically, why would he preach this, and then himself do the exact opposite, ie make up verses that god has revealed to him?

Similarly with all the other propphets who also preached heaven/hell, why say theres such a place for bad people and liars and blasphemers, and yet themselves indulge in the biggest sins, writing lies in the name of God. And its not just isolated cases, apparently its all of the prophets of the Bible and the Quran who did this

tell me, is this logical, that all of them thought like this? All of them went astray, and all of them preached a mythical place called heaven and hell, ALL of them??? It doesnt make any sense

[AvarAllahNoor]

Maybe I did'nt word it correctly - The Prophets sent before were not deviant. (Well apart from Krishan and his hundreds of Gopis) but the message did not get across as intended. Now Fas, yes we are going to be judged by God. who isn't?

Anway, all are to be respected but the Sikh message is that God is one, regardless of names he's referred too.

Also Mohammed stated hell was full of women, how did he come to this conclusion, and why is it full of women only? (or more of?) when men are the doers of eveil more so than women. Just look around you, explain this to me please?

[- Qatada -]

Also Mohammed stated hell was full of women, how did he come to this conclusion, and why is it full of women only? (or more of?) when men are the doers of eveil more so than women. Just look around you, explain this to me please?

Ruqayyah Waris Maqsud writes, “After the Farewell Pilgrimage at the Eid prayer, the Prophet walked past the men leaning on Bilal's arm, and came to the rows of women behind them. Bilal spread out a cloth and the Prophet urged the women to be generous with their gifts of charity, for when he had been allowed a glimpse into the flames of Hell, he had noted that most of the people being tormented there were women.

The women were outraged, and one of them instantly stood up boldly and demanded to know why that was so. 'Because,' he replied, 'you women grumble so much, and show ingratitude to your husbands! Even if the poor fellows spent all their lives doing good things for you, you have only to be upset at the least thing and you will say, 'I have never received any good from you!' (Bukhari 1.28, recorded by Ibn Abbas - who was present on that occasion as a child).

At that the women began vigorously to pull off their rings and ear-rings, and throw them into Bilal's cloth.”


Also - if we look at the world population, females have always been more in number than males.

Anway, all are to be respected but the Sikh message is that God is one, regardless of names he's referred too.

So you don't pray to 'saints' right? Since God is One and none is worthy of worship [i.e. prayers/bowing to etc.] except Him Alone.

Maybe I did'nt word it correctly - The Prophets sent before were not deviant. (Well apart from Krishan and his hundreds of Gopis) but the message did not get across as intended. Now Fas, yes we are going to be judged by God. who isn't?

Is that part of your beliefs in Sikhism? Since i've heard many different opinions, cali dude - the Sikh on this forum says that its a life of re-incarnation and one can only 'unite' with god if they reach a really high level. So when does the judgement actually take place? Oh yeah - evidence from the GGS please.



Regards.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Fas, why do you talk of Saints over and over? Where has it been stated that we do? :)

[- Qatada -]

Can you answer my questions first please? :) Maybe i'll answer yours after that.


Thanks.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Yes, 'Jeevan Mukut' Free from life (the circle of life and death) can only be achieved if we worship God the Sikh way. Nothing else will do. Judgement takes place in the Court of the Master!

''The Guru speaks of the cycle of reincarnation, the 8.4 million species of beings, and the ways in which actions, karmas, bind the soul to to this cycle. The soul is not subject to death—death is merely the turning of the page in the book of the soul’s journey from God, through the created universe, back to God again.

The Guru instructs us to live with the constant remembrance of death, living the Rehit Maryada (Code of Conduct). We are to act and interact as if we are about to die in the next instant. We are to maintain a preparedness of mind, a meditative attitude, so that, if we were to die in the next instant, we would be ready to answer for our actions in the Presence of the Dharm-Raj, the Lord of Dharma, the Righteous Judge. Regret and attachment will bind us to the cycle of reincarnation, while meditative balance and detachment will allow us to pass through the stages of release, as our soul finds its way to its true home with God.


In the beginning, in the middle and in the end, God exists. Judgement is in His Hands alone. ||15|| (Guru Arjan Dev)

[- Qatada -]

So when does the judgement actually take place? Is it with all of mankind gathered together? What will happen when everyone gets judged? What are the consequences for our actions in this life? And how does re-incarnation come into this if every soul bears its own burden only?


In Islaam, we believe that Allaah Alone knows of when the final Day will be, and on that day all of mankind will be gathered together infront of Allaah to be judged, and the witnesses will be brought forth [i.e. the angels who write all we say, the area we did a deed, our own body etc. - can be a witness for or against us.]

[AvarAllahNoor]

Once the soul hasl left the body, Unlike your thinking, the body is left here (cremated) and will not be ressurected. However the sould never dies. So when we go to God he'll judge us. Anymore on this i'll get back to you later on.

Now, can you tell answer my question on Mahammed stating that hell was over run with women?

[- Qatada -]

I think you ignored my earlier post, its on the previous page. Look forward to your answers by the way, and please bring proof along with it from your scripture.


Thanks again.

[Mohsin]

Once the soul hasl left the body, Unlike your thinking, the body is left here (cremated) and will not be ressurected. However the sould never dies. So when we go to God he'll judge us. Anymore on this i'll get back to you later on.

Now, can you tell answer my question on Mahammed stating that hell was over run with women?

There are more women on earth than men. More will end up in hell, as well as more will end up in heaven. Cant remember where I read that though

[Ghira]

Once the soul hasl left the body, Unlike your thinking, the body is left here (cremated) and will not be ressurected. However the sould never dies. So when we go to God he'll judge us. Anymore on this i'll get back to you later on.

Now, can you tell answer my question on Mahammed stating that hell was over run with women?

I recently received the following from someone who is earnestly attempting to follow the deen, but did not know how to reply in this regard. Your help would be greatly appreciated. May Allah shower you all with his infinite graces for all your service to the ummah:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I came accross this Hadith and was very disheartened:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you." Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 28
Women tolerates injustices from their husbands during the entire period of their lifetime. 99% of the wives are treated like servants. However, Islam does not give women the right to complain, or to react against the injustice of their husbands, or to show the same bad attitude to the husband as he shows. If a woman does any of this, hell fire is her destiny!!

Please comment."

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

Dear Questioner,

I pray this message finds you in good health and iman.

Hadith literature is a rich and fascinating glimpse into the life of the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace. One of the most amazing aspects of this literature is the fact that many women shared in the transmission and preservation of the Prophet's legacy.

After all, if it weren't for the Prophet's wives, may Allah be well pleased with them, countless facets of the Prophet's life might have been lost to future generations. For those who claim that women had no stake in Islamic history, all I can say is look to the hadith and the phenomenal contributions of women like Aisha, Hafsa, and Umm Salama, may Allah be pleased with them.

You may wonder why I'm saying this. I'm saying this because you have to approach the hadith with some understanding of its context. There is an entire field of studies called Hadith Studies. Scholars, past and present, have devoted their entire lives to memorizing, understanding, classifying, authenticating, tracing, and commenting on the thousands of traditions associated with the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace.

Ordinary students like us have no business taking one hadith and running to the races with it. If we're confused about a hadith, then we should go to an expert and ask him or her what it means. We owe the Messenger, who is the Beloved of Allah, something called husn al-dhann, or the benefit of the doubt. If we see a hadith that looks strange to us, we put the best construction on the matter.

First, we should recognize that we may not have sufficient knowledge of the Arabic language to come to any conclusion on the hadith.

Second, we need to understand that this is one hadith in thousands. Look how many hadith there are thatspeak positively of women, and remindmen to honor women. Foremost of these hadith are the ones that deal with motherhood. For example:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is more entitled to be treated with the best companionship by me?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man said. "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man further said, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man asked for the fourth time, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your father. "

[Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 2]

Third, there are other hadith that indicate a plentitude of women in Paradise. For example:

Muhammad reported that some (persons) stated with a sense of pride and some discussed whether there would be more men in Paradise or more women. It was upon this that Abu Huraira reported that Abu'l Qasim (the Holy Prophet) (may peace be upon him) said: The (members) of the first group to get into Paradise would have their faces as bright as full moon during the night, and the next to this group would have their faces as bright as the shining stars in the sky, and every person would have two wives and the marrow of their shanks would glimmer beneath the flesh and there would be none without a wife in Paradise.

[Muslim, Book 040, Number 6793]

It looks like this was a topic of debate even in the early days of Islam. It's important to also keep in mind that the Qur'an frequently mentions the presence of hoor al-ain, or beautiful virgins, in Paradise. The Qur'an says, "But those who attain to faith and do righteous deeds We shall bring into gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide beyond the count of time; there shall they have spouses pure: and [thus] We shall bring them unto happiness abounding." [Al-Nisa, 4:57]

This verse is a very clear statement on the spiritual parity between men and women. Both believing men and women are promised a peaceful abode in Paradise with loving spouses.

Once again, there is no indication that women are excluded from Paradise and its rewards.

Fourth, even if we take the hadith at its literal meaning, is it really an issue? Since we're all supposed to be striving for Paradise anyway, we should welcome the hadith as advice on how not to act.

In other words, the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, may have seen certain behavior from the women of his community. Out of love and concern, he warned them that these behaviors would lead to Hell rather than Paradise. This hadith is telling us how serious ingratitude is. And it's a warning to both sexes.

The scholars frequently explain that hadiths like these can apply to both sexes. Of course, there are ungrateful husbands. That goes without saying. And of course many women have suffered at their husbands' hands.

However, this hadith is addressing situations where women are in the wrong. We have to be honest. A lot of women do take their husbands for granted. We should be grateful that the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, warned us of the consequences of such unbecoming behavior.

Last but not least, this hadith is not saying that any woman who complains is going to Hell. This hadith addresses a very specific behavior. Women certainly have the right to voice their grievances.

Isn't there an entire chapter of the Qur'an called al-Mujadilah? This surah is the 58th chapter in the Qur'an and it is devoted to the story of a woman who came to the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, and complained about her husband.

The Prophet did not tell this woman that she was going to Hell. Instead, he listened to her, and Allah Most High revealed verses directly addressing this woman's situation and condemning the husband for his unacceptable behavior.

I pray that Allah Most High helps your friend to find peace in this beautiful way of life that has enriched and inspired the lives of countless women.

And Allah knows best.

From http://qa.**************/issue_view....7547&CATE=3600

[AvarAllahNoor]

Men take their wives for granted too, yet i see nothing similar in the Quran attacking them. Fas, you've got a quote from the Guru Granth Sahib for the question you asked.

Mohin, more women than men, prove that with a reputable source (non Quranic) Even if their are more women, that means because of this they are subjected to hell?

Also, Fas states Mohammed had a seal on his shoulder, any quotes from Quran or Sayings to back this up, as I don't accept myths or word of mouth on things. Thanks :D

[AvarAllahNoor]

There are more women on earth than men. More will end up in hell, as well as more will end up in heaven. Cant remember where I read that though

lol you can't recall? so that means it's true then eh....

[- Qatada -]

Avar, tut tut. I can't believe you can take such cheap shots man. That quote never proved anything:

In the beginning, in the middle and in the end, God exists. Judgement is in His Hands alone. ||15|| (Guru Arjan Dev)

Is that the proof that there is a day of judgement? Is that proof that all of mankind will be together on that day to be judged by God? What are the consequences and how will mankind be judged?


I can't believe it, you can't even bring proof for how your religion is logical, nevermind how its the truth. Yet all you want to keep doing is attacking Islaam without any knowledge.


To all the bros' and sisters reading this - let Avar answer the questions we put forward to him before responding to him. Because it looks like thats his technique of avoiding what we put forward to him.


Look forward to your answers Avar, with proof. :)

[Ghira]

Men take their wives for granted too, yet i see nothing similar in the Quran attacking them. Fas, you've got a quote from the Guru Granth Sahib for the question you asked.

Mohin, more women than men, prove that with a reputable source (non Quranic) Even if their are more women, that means because of this they are subjected to hell?

Also, Fas states Mohammed had a seal on his shoulder, any quotes from Quran or Sayings to back this up, as I don't accept myths or word of mouth on things. Thanks :D

Read the WHOLE post then make your comments.

The scholars frequently explain that hadiths like these can apply to both sexes. Of course, there are ungrateful husbands. That goes without saying. And of course many women have suffered at their husbands' hands.

However, this hadith is addressing situations where women are in the wrong. We have to be honest. A lot of women do take their husbands for granted. We should be grateful that the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, warned us of the consequences of such unbecoming behavior.

Last but not least, this hadith is not saying that any woman who complains is going to Hell. This hadith addresses a very specific behavior. Women certainly have the right to voice their grievances.

Gratitude is essential in Islam. It is so important that it is linked to belief in God and disbelief. Look at the word Kafir which is what you are. An Arabic word which literally means to cover up. A farmer is also called a Kafir because he covers the seeds that is put on the ground and we get lush, delicious fruits and vegatables from the farm. A person like you is a kafir because he/she is covering up the truth and also the blessings of Allah given to him. You make up dieties, idols and falsely say that a CREATED thing has given you food, shelter, clothing etc... You cover the blessings of your Creator and ungrateful towards them causing you to worship something created. I think this forum should be closed...this person has no intention to understand. You first have to study the BASICS of Islam before you get into these issues. You cannot finish college until you complete the basics like grade school or obtain a GED..And if someone gives you a million right answers you still would not accept the truth or even try to understand. You are lost. Close forum...

[mustafajadeed]

Salam Alay Koom:

Sorry for the lateness in this (Life Happens) but this may be the Hadith that there being more women is based on:


Book 001, Number 0142:
It is narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah b. Umar that the Messenger of Allah observed: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense, and you spend some nights (and days) in which you do not offer prayer and in the month of Ramadan (during the days) you do not observe fast, that is a failing in religion. This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Abu Tahir with this chain of transmitters.

Book 001, Number 0143:
A hadith like this as narrated by Ibn 'Umar has also been transmitted by Abu Huraira.


It must be remembered that all final decisions on the Day of Judgement are at the
Descretion of The God Himself.


Before that time, everyone has the chance to do what they are supposed to do (Follow the Orders that The God left for mankind and do good works.) here on Earth that is for both men and women.

Also take note: when you think of the Prophet Jacob / Israel people tend to think of the great love of his wife Rachel, Joseph’s mother...

Rachel was wife Number 2 of 4 total: Leah was First wife, who gave birth to 6 of the 12 children/ tribes of Israel Rachel, Zilpah and Bilhah gave birth to 2 children each. So if he had only 1 wife, you would have had “The 6 Tribes of Israel”.

Ma Salam

[One Man Army]

Siree Raag, Fifth Mehla:
In the first watch of the night, O my merchant friend, the Lord placed your soul in the womb.
In the tenth month, you were made into a human being, O my merchant friend, and you were given your allotted time to perform good deeds.
You were given this time to perform good deeds, according to your pre-ordained destiny.
God placed you with your mother, father, brothers, sons and wife.
God Himself is the Cause of causes, good and bad-no one has control over these things.
Says Nanak, O mortal, in the first watch of the night, the soul is placed in the womb. ||1||
In the second watch of the night, O my merchant friend, the fullness of youth rises in you like waves.
You do not distinguish between good and evil, O my merchant friend-your mind is intoxicated with ego.
Mortal beings do not distinguish between good and evil, and the road ahead is treacherous.
They never serve the Perfect True Guru, and the cruel tyrant Death stands over their heads.
When the Righteous Judge seizes you and interrogates you, O madman, what answer will you give him then?
Says Nanak, in the second watch of the night, O mortal, the fullness of youth tosses you about like waves in the storm. ||2||
In the third watch of the night, O my merchant friend, the blind and ignorant person gathers poison.
He is entangled in emotional attachment to his wife and sons, O my merchant friend, and deep within him, the waves of greed are rising up.
The waves of greed are rising up within him, and he does not remember God.
He does not join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, and he suffers in terrible pain through countless incarnations.
He has forgotten the Creator, his Lord and Master, and he does not meditate on Him, even for an instant.
Says Nanak, in the third watch of the night, the blind and ignorant person gathers poison. ||3||
In the fourth watch of the night, O my merchant friend, that day is drawing near.
As Gurmukh, remember the Naam, O my merchant friend. It shall be your Friend in the Court of the Lord.
As Gurmukh, remember the Naam, O mortal; in the end, it shall be your only companion.
This emotional attachment to Maya shall not go with you; it is false to fall in love with it.
The entire night of your life has passed away in darkness; but by serving the True Guru, the Divine Light shall dawn within.
Says Nanak, O mortal, in the fourth watch of the night, that day is drawing near! ||4||
Receiving the summons from the Lord of the Universe, O my merchant friend, you must arise and depart with the actions you have committed.
You are not allowed a moment's delay, O my merchant friend; the Messenger of Death seizes you with firm hands.
Receiving the summons, people are seized and dispatched. The self-willed manmukhs are miserable forever.
But those who serve the Perfect True Guru are forever happy in the Court of the Lord.
The body is the field of karma in this age; whatever you plant, you shall harvest.
Says Nanak, the devotees look beautiful in the Court of the Lord; the self-willed manmukhs wander forever in reincarnation. ||5||1||4||


The True Guru is Allah, Vaheguru, God etc.

The manmukh- is the one subjected to following his own mind, victim to his desires. Guru Sahib has used the example of the 4 parts of the night (as known in old indian history) to explain phases of life.

Pauree:
O Nanak, having created the souls, the Lord installed the Righteous Judge of Dharma to read and record their accounts.
There, only the Truth is judged true; the sinners are picked out and separated.
The false find no place there, and they go to hell with their faces blackened.
Those who are imbued with Your Name win, while the cheaters lose.
The Lord installed the Righteous Judge of Dharma to read and record the accounts. ||2||

i have previously posted about sikhi beliefs after death. Hell is the passing phase between cycles after this life after judgment has occured. Dharam raaj- the judge God has put into place will be the one who sentences everyone according to their deeds

As are the deeds done, so is the reputation one acquires.
So do not play such a game, which will bring you to ruin at the Court of the Lord.
The accounts of the educated and the illiterate shall be judged in the world hereafter.
One who stubbornly follows his own mind (manmukh) shall suffer in the world hereafter. ||12||

The Lord's Name does not abide within their hearts - their mothers should have been sterile.
These bodies wander around, forlorn and abandoned, without the Name; their lives waste away, and they die, crying out in pain. ||1||
O my mind, chant the Name of the Lord, the Lord within you.
The Merciful Lord God, Har, Har, has showered me with His Mercy; the Guru has imparted spiritual wisdom to me, and my mind has been instructed. ||Pause||
In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Kirtan of the Lord's Praise brings the most noble and exalted status; the Lord is found through the True Guru.
I am a sacrifice to my True Guru, who has revealed the Lord's hidden Name to me. ||2||
By great good fortune, I obtained the Blessed Vision of the Darshan of the Holy; it removes all stains of sin.
I have found the True Guru, the great, all-knowing King; He has shared with me the many Glorious Virtues of the Lord. ||3||
Those, unto whom the Lord, the Life of the world, has shown Mercy, enshrine Him within their hearts, and cherish Him in their minds.
The Righteous Judge of Dharma, in the Court of the Lord, has torn up my papers; servant Nanak's account has been settled. ||4||5||


The Gurmukhs (the follower of God) account is torn up. he is not victim to sentence of dharam raaj.

He describes us as merchants as we are here to do trade with good and bad deeds:

Gauree Chaytee, First Mehla:
With your nectar-like body, you live in comfort, but this world is just a passing drama.
You practice greed, avarice and great falsehood, and you carry such a heavy burden.
O body, I have seen you blowing away like dust on the earth. ||1||
Listen - listen to my advice!
Only the good deeds which you have done shall remain with you, O my soul. This opportunity shall not come again! ||1||Pause||
I say to you, O my body: listen to my advice!
You slander, and then praise others; you indulge in lies and gossip.
You gaze upon the wives of others, O my soul; you steal and commit evil deeds.
But when the swan departs, you shall remain behind, like an abandoned woman. ||2||
O body, you are living in a dream! What good deeds have you done?
When I stole something by deception, then my mind was pleased.
I have no honor in this world, and I shall find no shelter in the world hereafter. My life has been lost, wasted in vain! ||3||
I am totally miserable! O Baba Nanak, no one cares for me at all! ||1||Pause||
Turkish horses, gold, silver and loads of gorgeous clothes
- none of these shall go with you, O Nanak. They are lost and left behind, you fool!
I have tasted all the sugar candy and sweets, but Your Name alone is Ambrosial Nectar. ||4||
Digging deep foundations, the walls are constructed, but in the end, the buildings return to heaps of dust.
People gather and hoard their possessions, and give nothing to anyone else - the poor fools think that everything is theirs.
Riches do not remain with anyone - not even the golden palaces of Sri Lanka. ||5||
Listen, you foolish and ignorant mind
- only His Will prevails. ||1||Pause||
My Banker is the Great Lord and Master. I am only His petty merchant.
This soul and body all are His. He Himself kills, and brings back to life. ||6||1||13||


described as a abandoned women, as Guru Sahib describes the relationship between humans and God should be as if we are the females, and God is the Husband. just as a wife loves, continuously is in thought of her husband, etc so should we be with God

[Kashnowe]

hello all. i am wondering if there is anywhere in the quran or hadith that speaks about incest, homoesxuality, sodomy, and petophilia.

in islam does a husband have to consumte a marriage in order for it to be valid?

i hope my questions don't creep anyone out :-[ :nervous:

[- Qatada -]

hello all. i am wondering if there is anywhere in the quran or hadith that speaks about incest, homoesxuality, sodomy, and petophilia.

Answered here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/739479-post498.html

in islam does a husband have to consumte a marriage in order for it to be valid?

The marriage is valid once the contract [nikah] has been done, however once the marriage is consumated - it becomes the husbands duty to support the wife, provide for her, give her shelter etc. Before this it is her father's/brothers/guardians responsibility.

i hope my questions don't creep anyone out :-[ :nervous:

It's okay, they're not creepy at all.



Regards.

[lilah]

Yes I realise all this. Seems bizzare. Same with Soloman and David, having so many wives would NOT be the way of any Prophet. Something I can't get my head around. The Messenger of Allah would only have one f ocus, that would be to relay the Message of our Master not indulge in numerous wives. (as these are sins of the flesh) Something as I keep saying is not likely of a Prophet!

It doesn't matter what you think is likely of a prophet...it's what God made lawful on them. I find it ironic how you denounce the teachings of the prophets of God based on a characteristic that you disagree with....regardless of wether or not God made such an action lawful

Yes, the prophets had relations WITH THEIR WIVES....if a man wishes to have relations with his wife is that a sin? oh i forgot, society made marital sex a dirty thing....

The prophet muhammed (SAW) relations w/his wives were example to us on modern day muslims on how to treat there wife/wives. In all hadiths, the prophet's wives never once uttered an ill word against him....and in all hadiths, the prophet consistently treated all his wives with more justice, love and compassion. If more men treated their wife/wives in the way of the prophet treated his, i bet you divorce rates would plummet.

[lilah]

Men take their wives for granted too, yet i see nothing similar in the Quran attacking them. Fas, you've got a quote from the Guru Granth Sahib for the question you asked.

Mohin, more women than men, prove that with a reputable source (non Quranic) Even if their are more women, that means because of this they are subjected to hell?

Also, Fas states Mohammed had a seal on his shoulder, any quotes from Quran or Sayings to back this up, as I don't accept myths or word of mouth on things. Thanks :D

you should "read" the quran thoroughly...


you are also missing a hadith that states that there are more women in paradise than there are men.

Muslim, Book 040, Number 6793
Muhammad reported that some (persons) stated with a sense of pride and some discussed whether there would be more men in Paradise or more women. It was upon this that Abu Huraira reported that Abu'l Qasim (the Holy Prophet) (may peace be upon him) said: The (members) of the first group to get into Paradise would have their faces as bright as full moon during the night, and the next to this group would have their faces as bright as the shining stars in the sky, and every person would have two wives and the marrow of their shanks would glimmer beneath the flesh and there would be none without a wife in Paradise.Muhammad reported that some (persons) stated with a sense of pride and some discussed whether there would be more men in Paradise or more women. It was upon this that Abu Huraira reported that Abu'l Qasim (the Holy Prophet) (may peace be upon him) said: The (members) of the first group to get into Paradise would have their faces as bright as full moon during the night, and the next to this group would have their faces as bright as the shining stars in the sky, and every person would have two wives and the marrow of their shanks would glimmer beneath the flesh and there would be none without a wife in Paradise.

on ratio, based on the hadith, there will be 2 women for ever 1 man in paradise...

you are focusing on a trivial issue by implying that there is an 'unfairness' that there is more women than men in hellfire...the lesson we should take from the hadith is the behaviors that can lead a woman to hellfire...as opposed to the behaviors that she can be rewarded in Paradise. Some women are known to gossip, backbite, and so on...other women don't.

As for men, the Quran is filled with warnings of the fires of hell for them...but you read the Quran, so you should know. :D

[One Man Army]

hold up, is it predestined whos going to get into paradise n who isnt then? seeing as there are figures and ratios of the amount of people going to be there. does that mean that it is already set who will be there, and who wont?

[lilah]

hold up, is it predestined whos going to get into paradise n who isnt then? seeing as there are figures and ratios of the amount of people going to be there. does that mean that it is already set who will be there, and who wont?

Sahih Muslim Book 33 The Book of Destiny
6390
Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) who is the most truthful (of the human beings) and his being truthful (is a fact) said: Verily your creation is on this wise. The constituents of one of you are collected for forty days in his mother's womb in the form of blood, after which it becomes a clot of blood in another period of forty days. Then it becomes a lump of flesh and forty days later Allah sends His angel to it with instructions concerning four things, so the angel writes down his livelihood, his death, his deeds, his fortune and misfortune. By Him, besides Whom there is no god, that one amongst you acts like the people deserving Paradise until between him and Paradise there remains but the distance of a cubit, when suddenly the writing of destiny overcomes him and he begins to act like the denizens of Hell and thus enters Hell, and another one acts in the way of the denizens of Hell, until there remains between him and Hell a distance of a cubit that the writing of destiny overcomes him and then he begins to act like the people of Paradise and enters Paradise.

The thing is that nobody knows what is destined for him/her except the Almighty.

And while it is told there are more women than men in paradise and hell fire, nobody said who amoung them where in either place....

[One Man Army]

yeh however, it is then predestined who will get into paradise, and who wont? as the fact that it is stated that there will be more women in hell n heaven, therefore, everyone must have destiny written whether they will get into paradise or not, is this correct?

[lilah]

yeh however, it is then predestined who will get into paradise, and who wont? as the fact that it is stated that there will be more women in hell n heaven, therefore, everyone must have destiny written whether they will get into paradise or not, is this correct?

it is a part of faith to believe in divine destiny, ie everything had been written before the creation of the world.

The first thing Allah (SWT) created was water and then His Throne. After that Allah (SWT) created the pen. He ordered the Pen to write. The Pen wrote, by the Will of Allah. It wrote what was and what will be in this life until its end. Fifty thousand (50,000) years after this event, Allah created the heavens and Earth. No person is born and no drop of water falls except in accordance to what was written.

However, just because something is destined to happen doesn't negate the fact that you have free will, our concept of time past, present, and future is skewed because of our time on earth. For example, is it by choice that you may or may not be muslim? did you choose your career choice? Do you place your own order when going to a restaurant?

Things are predestined, but your actions are your own.... your sins, and good deeds are yours.

of course, Allah (SWT) knows best,

[One Man Army]

so if all d women in d wrld started sinning, the prophesy of being more women then men in paradise would be proved false, if free will in the sense you have described exists?

[lilah]

so if all d women in d wrld started sinning, the prophesy of being more women then men in paradise would be proved false, if free will in the sense you have described exists?

What? ROFL ....

A person is born with free will, but Allah (SWT) has knowledge before hand of what will occur. The events were written, but they hadn't occured yet.

Humans 'feel' time in the sense that there is past, present, and future. But Time is relative.

you're question makes absolutely no sense what so ever.....

[lilah]

so if all d women in d wrld started sinning, the prophesy of being more women then men in paradise would be proved false, if free will in the sense you have described exists?

also, what you are doing putting up a meaningless arguement/theory. Let me explain, what you are trying to say is if all of the women were to sin, they would go to hell fire, and that would refute the prophesy..... the theory is not sound because you cannot just arbitrarily say that everybody that sins will go to hellfire. The final determination/judge of who goes to heaven/hell is only Allah (SWT). If you sin, you have an opportunity to repent and ask for forgiveness...but it is only through the mercy of Allah (swt) that you may be granted paradise.

may Allah(swt) give you guidance and help you sort out the confusion.

[One Man Army]

im not making no argument, and im sorry if u feel i am. im just asking something thats got me thinkin after reading into this topic. It is stated that there will be more women then men in paradise. hence, therefore Allah must create some destiny in who will get into paradise, and who wont. whether we know it or not is irrelevent. what my question is, which i dnt seem to get answered from you posts is, if Allah has stated there will be more women, that means it must be prophesised (or how eva u spel it) which individual will get into paradise and who wont. this is the part that is confusing me. what does ROFL mean? what part of my question makes no sense? its writen in plain english. you said Allah has knowledge of what will occur, therefore it is already destined who will achieve 'paradise' and who will not! is this correct?

[Malaikah]

what my question is, which i dnt seem to get answered from you posts is, if Allah has stated there will be more women, that means it must be prophesised (or how eva u spel it) which individual will get into paradise and who wont.

Hi,

The simple answer is that Allah swt knows everything, He knows what we are going to do in the future just like He knows what we have done in the past. Allah is not bound by time, so it isn't like us, where we can only see the present and past but not the future. He is outside of time and all knowledgable and knows what we are going to do.

That does not mean He is forcing us to do it. It just means He already know what we will do. We are given to choice to do what we want.

what does ROFL mean?

=rolling on floor laughing.

therefore it is already destined who will achieve 'paradise' and who will not!

Yes, Allah already knows where we are headed. He knows who is going to Paradise and who is not.

on ratio, based on the hadith, there will be 2 women for ever 1 man in paradise...

:sl:

Hmm... but aren't the two wives meant to be from the Hur al 3ain though? Not earthly women?:?

Allah knows best I guess...

[lilah]

Hmm... but aren't the two wives meant to be from the Hur al 3ain though? Not earthly women?:?

Allah knows best I guess...

there is no proof of that from where i can tell...

there are hur al 3ain and wives... but from the above hadith, it doesn't mention who.

[lilah]

Hi,
:sl:

Hmm... but aren't the two wives meant to be from the Hur al 3ain though? Not earthly women?:?

Allah knows best I guess...

Muslim, Book 040, Number 6793
Muhammad reported that some (persons) stated with a sense of pride and some discussed whether there would be more men in Paradise or more women. It was upon this that Abu Huraira reported that Abu'l Qasim (the Holy Prophet) (may peace be upon him) said: The (members) of the first group to get into Paradise would have their faces as bright as full moon during the night, and the next to this group would have their faces as bright as the shining stars in the sky, and every person would have two wives and the marrow of their shanks would glimmer beneath the flesh and there would be none without a wife in Paradise.

Allah knows best, but in the above hadith they were discussing whether or not there were more men than women in paradise.... the hor al 3ain are already in paradise....and the hadith says

The (members) of the first group to get into Paradise would have their faces as bright as full moon during the night, and the next to this group would have their faces as bright as the shining stars in the sky,

once again, Allah knows best, and i don't pretend to be a scholar, but i always believed that the Hor al 3ains are additional companions to men in addition to their wives...

and with all the suffering and oppression women HAVE gone through in history, it makes sense....

[One Man Army]

ok u confirm there is a preordained destiny. what decides this destiny? is there some sort of life before birth that decides which individuals will be destined in this life to reach it?

i also wanted to ask, what is the human sole before birth? does it come into being once a baby is concieved?

[جوري]

ok i also wanted to ask, what is the human sole before birth? does it come into being once a baby is concieved?

in embryogenesis limb formation begins around 5 weeks, and shortly there after the "soles" develop -- however if you speak of the "soul" then that is around 4 months gestation that an angel breathes life into the baby

Ibn `Abbas stated that the breathing-in-process takes place within 10 days after the 4-month period.

Verily, each of you is created in the form of a drop of sperm in his mother�s womb for forty days, then he is a clot for a similar period, then he is a lump of flesh (the size of a morsel) for a similar (period), then the angel is sent to breathe (human) spirit into him, then (the angel) is ordered to write down his share of livelihood, his appointed term (i.e. how long he will live), his actions and whether he will be miserable or happy." (Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim) Scholars said that aborting the fetus after four months of gestation is prohibited according to Islamic Sharia.

..Source and another source on ruling since, that is when we consider a fetus and actual human being. surprisingly, scientifically speaking that is also when doctors consider the baby viable ... ha another case where Islam and science walk hand in hand...fetal life

peace!

[S.A.]

Please shed light on these few verses for me please. So I can fathom them.

1- If you fear that you will not act justly towards the orphans, marry such woman' as seem good to you, two, three, four; but if you fear you will not be equitable, then only one, or what your right hands own;

2 - Oh Prophet, We have made lawful for thee thy wives whom thou hast given their wages and what thy right hand owns, spoils of war that God has given thee, and the daughter of thy uncles paternal and aunts paternal, thy uncles maternal and aunts maternal, who have emigrated with thee, and any woman believer, if she give herself to the Prophet and if the Prophet desire to take her in marriage, for thee exclusively, apart from the believers

3 - Does circumcision have to be carried out according to the Quran?

4 - What is this verse meant by? ''Al-Hasan al-Basri narrated: The Messenger of God said, "The only two things I cherish of the life of this world are women and perfume''

5 - Did Mohammed have thirteen wives?

6 - Explain this please ''Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, Youths (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded. S. 52:24 Y. Ali

There wait on them immortal youths With bowls and ewers and a cup from a pure spring.

There wait on them immortal youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls.

I'm trying to get a better understanding as these are the few things i'm having difficulty understandng. I get different responses from different people.

Don't mean any offence.

:sl: everyone

I believe that quoting a translation of the quranic verses alone without the actual arabic verse from the Quran (the surah name, the verse number and the context) and then asking for tafseer is not a fair job. Better if we quote the actual arabic verse and its best translation coz translations differ from scholar to scholar. And yes, the best way wud be to seek a scholar.

[lilah]

ok u confirm there is a preordained destiny. what decides this destiny? is there some sort of life before birth that decides which individuals will be destined in this life to reach it?

i also wanted to ask, what is the human sole before birth? does it come into being once a baby is concieved?

See Response #94 and #96

[One Man Army]

If theres preordained destiny, what decides this? does Allah randomly decide which individual will get paradise, and who wont? or do humans have influence on this? as it is alredy decided who will get to paradise or not by Allah...

[One Man Army]

Gurfateh, its bin a few months since i posted this question, n it seems still not 2 b answered. is their any one on this forum that can help me understand, its bin buggin me 4 a while, but people jus stopd replying.

[Imam]

If theres preordained destiny, what decides this? does Allah randomly decide which individual will get paradise, and who wont? or do humans have influence on this? as it is alredy decided who will get to paradise or not by Allah...

peace

Allah has measured out the span of every person's life, their lot of good or ill fortune, and the fruits of their efforts

Muslims believe that the divine destiny is when God wrote down in the Preserved Tablet ("al-Lawhu 'l-Mahfuz") all that has happened and will happen, which will come to pass as written

According to this belief, a person's action is not caused by what is written in the Preserved Tablet but, rather, the action is written in the Preserved Tablet because God already knows all occurrences without the restrictions of time.

peace