Ruling on kissing one’s wife in front of the children

[FatimaAsSideqah]

:sl:

What amount of affection can a husband and wife display in front of their children . Can they hug, kiss lightly, hold hands in front of their children?.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

The Islamic ruling on this matter is as follows:

Firstly: If this hugging and kissing is of the type that takes place between husband and wife when they are alone, then it is not permissible to do it in front of the children whether they are little or big. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Let your slaves and slave‑girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions: before Fajr (morning) Salaah (prayer), and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and after the ‘Isha’ (night) Salaah (prayer). (These) three times are of privacy for you; other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending to each other. Thus Allaah makes clear the Ayaat (the Verses of this Qur’aan, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits) to you. And Allaah is All‑Knowing, All‑Wise.

59. And when the children among you come to puberty, then let them (also) ask for permission, as those senior to them (in age). Thus Allaah makes clear His Ayaat (Commandments and legal obligations) for you. And Allaah is All‑Knowing, All‑Wise”

[al-Noor 24:58-59]

Ibn Katheer said: Here servants and children are commanded not to intrude upon the adults of the household at these times, lest the man be in a position of intimacy with his wife and so on. (3/401).

If children are obliged to seek permission lest they see something of that which takes place between husband and wife, then what about doing such things openly in a deliberate manner? Look at the etiquette that was observed in the household of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and how the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) transmitted the details of his life.

The following was narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) concerning that:

It was narrated from Kurayb the freed slave of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas told him that he stayed overnight with Maymoonah, the wife of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who was his maternal aunt. He said: I lay my head on the end of the pillow and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his wife placed their heads on its side. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) slept until midnight, or shortly before or after, then the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) woke and started to rub the sleep from his eyes with his hands. Then he recited the last ten verses of Aal ‘Imraan…

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4571; Muslim, 763.

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This indicates that it is permissible for a man to sleep alongside his wife without being intimate with her in the presence of one of her mahrams, even if he has reached the age of discernment. Al-Qaadi said: In some versions of this hadeeth it says: Ibn ‘Abbaas said: Even though the isnaad of this version is I stayed overnight with my maternal aunt one night when she was menstruating.not saheeh, it contains a very interesting idea, because Ibn ‘Abbaas would not have asked to stay overnight on a night when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) may have wanted to be intimate with his wife, and his father would not have sent him there unless he knew that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would have no need to be intimate with his wife – because it is well known that he would not have been intimate with her when Ibn ‘Abbaas was there sharing the same pillow with them and he was watching to see what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did, and he did not sleep or he only slept a little.

Sharh Muslim, 6/46

In addition, doing such things openly is an action that is contrary to honour and decency.

Al-Maawardi said: Honour and decency means making sure that one’s deeds befit the circumstances so that no deeds may appear abhorrent or blameworthy.

Adab al-Dunya wa’l-Deen, 392.

The negative effects that such behaviour has on the children’s upbringing is sufficient reason not to do it, for children are created with the natural instinct to imitate their parents in all their affairs. So there is the fear that one of them may try to do that out of ignorance and a lack of understanding of what he is doing, and this is bad enough. Moreover there is no guarantee that small children talk to others about what they have seen, and it is obvious that this will cause embarrassment and loss of geerah (protective jealousy)

Secondly: If the affection that the husband and wife show in front of the children is of the kind that is usually shown, namely compassion, kindness and care, which will fill the house with peace and respect and happiness, especially on occasions such as Eid etc, that is permissible.

Showing that kind of affection will have an effect on the children’s peace of mind and will make them sense that there is mutual understanding and harmony in their family. There is nothing wrong with showing that kind of affection, but only as much as is necessary and without doing anything that is forbidden. And Allaah knows best.

http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/n...service_id=255

:w:

[Kittygyal]

Salamualikum.
woow subhnallah! better remember that indeed :X
ma'assalama

[Grace Seeker]

I am sorry. The question was clear, but the answer was not -- at least not to me. Can someone translate it into English for me?

[syilla]

I am sorry. The question was clear, but the answer was not -- at least not to me. Can someone translate it into English for me?

Secondly: If the affection that the husband and wife show in front of the children is of the kind that is usually shown, namely compassion, kindness and care, which will fill the house with peace and respect and happiness, especially on occasions such as Eid etc, that is permissible.

Showing that kind of affection will have an effect on the children’s peace of mind and will make them sense that there is mutual understanding and harmony in their family. There is nothing wrong with showing that kind of affection, but only as much as is necessary and without doing anything that is forbidden. And Allaah knows best.

Maybe this is clearer...

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[Grace Seeker]

Not really.


This line threw me, and I never made sense of the rest after it:

Firstly: If this hugging and kissing is of the type that takes place between husband and wife when they are alone, then it is not permissible to do it in front of the children whether they are little or big.

It is like in trying to write discreetely, the poster has communicated nothing at all. There are many things I do with my wife when alone with her, that I also do in public all the time as well. And there a few things I never do in public that I might do while alone with my wife.

And again, in saying:

only as much as is necessary and without doing anything that is forbidden

I have been effectively told nothing, for I don't know what is necessary and the writer assumes the reader knows what is forbidden. If one had these answers, there wouldn't be any purpsoe to asking the question.


How about I just ask what I hope are seen as a few "Yes or No" questions, and then see if they can be answered that way, with a simple "Yes" or "No".

1) Is it permissible to hold hands with one's wife in public?
2) Is it permissible to hold hands with one's wife in front of one's children in the privacy of your home?
3) Is it permissible to embrace one's wife with a hug around her shoulders when greeting her at the airport?
4) Is it permissible to embrace one's wife with a hug around her shouldeers in front of one's children in the privay of the home when she greets me as I come home after work?
5) Is it permissible to greet one's wife with a brief kiss on the lips when greeting her at the airport?
6) Is it permissible to greet one's wife with a brief kiss on the lips in front of the children in the privacy of one's home when she greets me as I come home after work?
7) Is it permissible to sit with one arm around my wife, while holding hands with the other while sitting in the living room with the children watching TV?
8) Is it permissible to sit next to my wife holding her hand, hugging her close, and/or repeatedly kissing her (though not involved in any other activities or forms of touching beyond that) in a portion of the house which might be open to the children entering with us unawares?

Thanks for your help in trying to make sense of this for me.

[*charisma*]

Hey,

I'll try my best to elaborate inshallah.

The first part of that quote says:

If this hugging and kissing is of the type that takes place between husband and wife when they are alone

This part is indicating the actions between a husband and a wife when they are alone. Usually if they are alone, there's likely an intimate reason..if you get the drift.

,then it is not permissible to do it in front of the children whether they are little or big.

If the parents are alone doing this and the children watch or something, they may mimic them, which isn't a good thing for them to do at their age. They may try to be alone and do the same. Secondly, this is an intimate time between the husband and wife, in which the children should not interfere as it can weaken the relationship (which is very common amongst our society). Thirdly, the intimacy between a husband and a wife are 100% to themselves. It is not meant to be out in the public, even if the children are your children. Lastly, The children should have been taught the ettiquetts of knocking before entering a private room/area (i.e. bathroom, someone else's house, bedroom).

That's explained better in the article here:

The negative effects that such behaviour has on the children’s upbringing is sufficient reason not to do it, for children are created with the natural instinct to imitate their parents in all their affairs. So there is the fear that one of them may try to do that out of ignorance and a lack of understanding of what he is doing, and this is bad enough. Moreover there is no guarantee that small children talk to others about what they have seen, and it is obvious that this will cause embarrassment and loss of geerah (protective jealousy)

With the questions that you brought up, from what I know, (anyone can feel free to correct me inshallah if I'm wrong), it isn't permissible to show affection in public. As said previously, any intimacy between a husband and wife should not be talked about in public, so its worse if its actually taken out in public to where its seen.

Showing that kind of affection will have an effect on the children’s peace of mind and will make them sense that there is mutual understanding and harmony in their family. There is nothing wrong with showing that kind of affection, but only as much as is necessary and without doing anything that is forbidden.

That's saying that its ok for the husband and wife to show general love and affection in the household as in any other household, but not to the point where they would transgress limits in front of the children such as anything that is crudely imitatable through ignorance or anything that can be exposed to the public, that shouldn't be exposed.

does that make more sense??

peace

[Malaikah]

1) Is it permissible to hold hands with one's wife in public?

That would depend on the culture... in the west it would be fine but in conservative Muslim countries it might be a bit iffy... not so sure how they are about it though.

2) Is it permissible to hold hands with one's wife in front of one's children in the privacy of your home?

Of course lol

3) Is it permissible to embrace one's wife with a hug around her shoulders when greeting her at the airport?

Probably... seems okay... again keep in mind the culture...

4) Is it permissible to embrace one's wife with a hug around her shouldeers in front of one's children in the privay of the home when she greets me as I come home after work?

Should be fine...

5) Is it permissible to greet one's wife with a brief kiss on the lips when greeting her at the airport?

Doubt it... :X

6) Is it permissible to greet one's wife with a brief kiss on the lips in front of the children in the privacy of one's home when she greets me as I come home after work?

Maybe... not sure...

7) Is it permissible to sit with one arm around my wife, while holding hands with the other while sitting in the living room with the children watching TV?

Seems okay.

8) Is it permissible to sit next to my wife holding her hand, hugging her close, and/or repeatedly kissing her (though not involved in any other activities or forms of touching beyond that) in a portion of the house which might be open to the children entering with us unawares?

hmmm :-\

Thanks for your help in trying to make sense of this for me.

No worries... take my answers as guide lines only, inshaallah (God willing).

[Grace Seeker]

does that make more sense?

peace

What makes sense are Malaikah's answers.

What does not make sense is the first half of this comment: "any intimacy between a husband and wife should not be talked about in public, so its worse if its actually taken out in public to where its seen."

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for inapproprite conversations that do not recognize the sensibilities of the people involved, and I am certainly not advocating for outrageous forms of PDA such as one might see on the beaches of Latin American countries (my apologies to my Latin friends, but you do know what I am speaking about). However, what does not make sense about this comment is the idea that we can't even talk responsibly about the subject of public displays of affection. If we are to teach others the difference between right and wrong practices, we have to be able to talk about those things. To use phrases like "you get my drift" leaves it to the other person's imagination. If that person comes up with a different idea than you wanted them to, it is the fault of those who, rather than being specific as to what they were talking about, simply said "you get my drift" and allowed their minds to drift aimlessly to something other than what was intended.

[Malaikah]

^Point taken. Trust me, you would be shocked at how detailed some online articles can get on these kinds of topic...

here, have a look for yourself...

http://www.islam-qa.com/special/inde...bsite=1&ln=eng

you might find some more answers to your questions also

[*charisma*]

Hey,

To use phrases like "you get my drift" leaves it to the other person's imagination. If that person comes up with a different idea than you wanted them to, it is the fault of those who, rather than being specific as to what they were talking about, simply said "you get my drift" and allowed their minds to drift aimlessly to something other than what was intended.

Sorry, I used that with the assumption that you'd know what I was talking about without having to go into great detail of the strong intimate reasons a husband and wife would go alone into a bedroom without the presence of their children.

What does not make sense is the first half of this comment: "any intimacy between a husband and wife should not be talked about in public, so its worse if its actually taken out in public to where its seen."

I'm speaking about foreplay. As Muslim women, we should be percieved as modest with and without our husbands. Foreplay between a husband and wife in front of other men and women goes against muru'ah (chivalry). A man and woman seen exchanging love sends the wrong messages of how the wife/husband should be perceived by others. It doesn't look like very modest behavior. So if foreplay is seen in the public its just the same as if you were talking about what you were doing in your bedroom. That's what I meant.

Otherwise, I believe its alright to say "I love you" or give that kind of affection, as long as its not sexually connotated.

[Grace Seeker]

Thank-you both.

Malaikah, I did check out the link you provided. I wasn't shocked, but do admit to laughing on reading a couple of the questions. I actually think the answers would be very helpful and it is good they are written out in as much detail and clarity as they are. I don't think that there was anything unseemingly about them either. Though certainly it was better to provide a link to them when able than quoting them on an open forum.

Charisma, in truth, I did understand that you were talking about intercourse when saying "if you get my drift". However, I did not realize that you were talking about foreplay in the other section. Of course I would not engage in that in public, so it never crossed my mind that that was what you were referring to.

[youngsister]

:sl: Intresting, I know I would have been seriously traumatised if my parents kissed in front of me+o( :w:

[Grace Seeker]

:sl: Intresting, I know I would have been seriously traumatised if my parents kissed in front of me+o( :w:

I think that is just something that none of us ever want to admit, that our parents might have actually ever been romantically interested in one another, and even less to consider that they might still be. But trauma? I would hope that's a bit of an overstatement.

[youngsister]

:sl:
Ok maybe not trauma:rollseyes
But still+o(
:D :w:

[Grace Seeker]

:sl:
Ok maybe not trauma:rollseyes
But still+o(
:D :w:

I hear ya. I remember feeling exactly that way when I was younger. Some in life changed me, I think they call old age. I wonder what you will be feeling when we are no longer calling you youngsister but oldmarriedwoman? :omg:

[youngsister]

:sl: lool well i will always be young at heart so it doesnt really matter:statisfie :w:

[Grace Seeker]

:sl: lool well i will always be young at heart so it doesnt really matter:statisfie :w:

:) Good for you.


But, I've also got a prediction, then. You're children will one day make the +o( face with respect to their mother's love for their father. :D

[youngsister]

:sl: LoL no really?:D Sure they will..absolutly natural>+o( :w: