Keep it up Turkey, you know what's best

[islamirama]

When you are repressively secular and nationalist such as Turkey, liberal reforms also mean more religious and cultural freedom, for all groups, be they Christians, Kurds or indeed Muslims. So in this sense being more liberal also means being less hostile to Islam. It is only when you insist on starting to enforce Islamic rulings that liberalism and Islam become each others opposites.

Have you looked at turkey lately? Islam is like banned there. Any one who wears a headscar is not allowed into the university or public offices for employment. There is no religious freedom there, only secular extremism.

[aLiTTLeTiMe]

Have you looked at turkey lately? Islam is like banned there. Any one who wears a headscar is not allowed into the university or public offices for employment. There is no religious freedom there, only secular extremism.

you are right brother..nobody live with rule of islam.such as headscar,religious school....

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

If anything no one is forcing Islam there. Practicing Muslims can't even enforce it on themselves without harassment! The only thing being enforced with force is secularist ideas. It's only when you have people with a blind heart that one doesnt seem to encompass that.

[KAding]

When you are repressively secular and nationalist such as Turkey, liberal reforms also mean more religious and cultural freedom, for all groups, be they Christians, Kurds or indeed Muslims. So in this sense being more liberal also means being less hostile to Islam. It is only when you insist on starting to enforce Islamic rulings that liberalism and Islam become each others opposites.

Have you looked at turkey lately? Islam is like banned there. Any one who wears a headscar is not allowed into the university or public offices for employment. There is no religious freedom there, only secular extremism.

Which is exactly why I said "when you are repressively secular and nationalist such as Turkey" in my post! But overall Turkey has become less oppressive to pretty much all groups in the last 10 years or so, also thanks to the AK party.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Khan-Ghalgha]

a place like KSA which is Sharia country.

LOOOOOOOOL, gimme a friggin brake, shariah country, do you live on the moon? LOL :laugh:

had a great laugh tho, I still hope you were joking, how can people get so misinformed?

[Skywalker]

LOOOOOOOOL, gimme a friggin brake, shariah country, do you live on the moon? LOL

had a great laugh tho, I still hope you were joking, how can people get so misinformed?

Hmm...I'm glad you found it funny. And actually yes it is a Sharia country, but a contemporary one. All the judicial courts in KSA are Sharia-based, it just doesn't apply the Sharia 100% right. It's the closest thing to it anyway.

[Darkseid]

Their country still needs to stop being such an empire.

The same I could say about Iran, Israel, Syria, and Iraq.

[abdil han]

The fact that the "AKP" is a somewhat Islamically-oriented party is very encouraging. What surprised me from that article was that Abdullah Gul is the one that's in charge of the EU membership drive, and at the same time is a man who supposedly has Islaimic values.

What I don't understand is how this AKP is Islamically-oriented when they're "vigorously pressing liberal reforms"? Anybody care to explain?

this government is trying to make Turkiye more free,,this is a reason for pressing reforms...

for example;when we enter EU,the hijab problem will be solved... (army n socialist partieswill not be able to stop it anymore)...

also EU will bring some economical benefits,

this AKP government says that they are trying to intibate europe in economical issues especially,,,

thats why they support EU...

but also they are trying to improve relationships between islamic n african countries(actually everycountry in the world),,and it works ..when they took control in 2002,the number of export was only 30billion$,but now its about 95billion$...

the most important reason is economy and then freedom...

[north_malaysian]

for example;when we enter EU,the hijab problem will be solved... (army n socialist partieswill not be able to stop it anymore)

France in the EU too, but they still have hijab problem.

[abdil han]

France in the EU too, but they still have hijab problem.

it has just happened there bro

but the other EU countries doesnt support them...

[north_malaysian]

it has just happened there bro

I hope Sarkozy will allow hijab...

[islamirama]

I hope Sarkozy will allow hijab...

you want a zionoist jew to give Muslimahs their rights? He said hwas going to help the Muslims by "liberating" them from this Islamic "culture" they are stuck in...

[north_malaysian]

you want a zionoist jew to give Muslimahs their rights? He said hwas going to help the Muslims by "liberating" them from this Islamic "culture" they are stuck in...

At least he objected when France wan to ban the veil.... He's a pro-religious person.... just like Erdogan.

[shev]

There is a proverb in Turkey ( empty can makes alot noise) here now election result shows that Turkish poeple are on religous side. Left side is just 20 percent

[Skywalker]

Hey cool! Are there any links to the results?

[Bittersteel]

yes to to BBC.they won the elections...man that's surprising.and Turks want to be more involved in NATO than the EU,I read somewhere.

[KAding]

To be honest I don't understand what the fuss is about the AK party. They seem a perfectly reasonable party to me. They pushed through liberal laws, pushed for EU membership, have been a good ally in NATO, and during their rule Turkey witnessed remarkable economic growth. If that is 'Islamic', well, I'm all for it. They could become an example to the rest of the Muslim world. Wanting to ditch bans on the headscarf only points to more freedom and liberalism to me.

What exactly have they done in the last few years that made the 'secularist' and kemalist so scared?

[KAding]

There is a proverb in Turkey ( empty can makes alot noise) here now election result shows that Turkish poeple are on religous side. Left side is just 20 percent

So what does being 'on the religious' side mean in Turkey? What are you expecting them to do exactly in the next few years? How far do you expect them to go?

[al-muslimah]

excuse me mr. ENGLAND,

Turkey was once one of the greatest centers of learning until that shaytan(satan) and big kafeer Mustafa Kemal Atturk and the western governments made the country secular that shaytan i hope he is burning in hell now because he certaintly deserves it.inshallah we will have our khilaphate back.All the forms of governments that exist today in every country is unjust therefor the only justified form of government and law is an islamic government that acts accordin to the shariah of islamlike in the time of the khulafa-oo-rashideen.Today turkey is an embarassment to the muslmworld because its haram government just like the haram governments of th U.S. and every westernized country.

[KAding]

excuse me mr. ENGLAND,

Turkey was once one of the greatest centers of learning until that shaytan(satan) and big kafeer Mustafa Kemal Atturk and the western governments made the country secular that shaytan i hope he is burning in hell now because he certaintly deserves it.inshallah we will have our khilaphate back.All the forms of governments that exist today in every country is unjust therefor the only justified form of government and law is an islamic government that acts accordin to the shariah of islamlike in the time of the khulafa-oo-rashideen.Today turkey is an embarassment to the muslmworld because its haram government just like the haram governments of th U.S. and every westernized country.

Whoa, thats a lot of hate there.

The ottomans had been trying to Westernize for at least a century before Ataturk showed up. The only reason why he was embraced was because the Ottoman Empire was failing and breaking apart under European pressure. The old system of government was failing, thats why they were looking for a new system. Extremist on both sides seem to assume the AK party has some incredible hidden agenda, which they:
1. have repeatedly denied, they claim loyalty to the secular system founded by ataturk
2. haven't implemented the last 3 years they were in power
All I see is a moderate party which is popular for bringing enormous economic growth and for wanting to remove some of the excesses of extreme nationalism and secularism. Good!

Btw, are you honestly expecting the AK party to 'bring back the khaliphate'? What gives you such hope? Looking at their policies of the last few years I see nothing that would suggest any such thing.

[The_Prince]

the AK shud allow hijabs, and start banning alcohol slow by slow, and they should start putting Islam and Islamic history in all school curiculims as compulsary if thats not already there. these secular muslim turks need to start learning history of Islam and about Islam and be proud of that rather than secularism.

[snakelegs]

To be honest I don't understand what the fuss is about the AK party. They seem a perfectly reasonable party to me. They pushed through liberal laws, pushed for EU membership, have been a good ally in NATO, and during their rule Turkey witnessed remarkable economic growth. If that is 'Islamic', well, I'm all for it. They could become an example to the rest of the Muslim world. Wanting to ditch bans on the headscarf only points to more freedom and liberalism to me.

What exactly have they done in the last few years that made the 'secularist' and kemalist so scared?

yes! i agree entirely. congratulations, turkey!

[Darkseid]

the AK shud allow hijabs, and start banning alcohol slow by slow, and they should start putting Islam and Islamic history in all school curiculims as compulsary if thats not already there. these secular muslim turks need to start learning history of Islam and about Islam and be proud of that rather than secularism.

Banning alcohol won't achieve anything. The King of Saudi Arabia is an alcoholic, the Emir of Kuwait is an alcoholic, the Sultan of Brunei is an alcoholic, and the President of Egypt is an alcoholic. Honestly, the high class society of the muslim world will always indulge themselves into indecent acts just like the high class society in any community. As long as people have power over other people, they will become egotistical and sinful. There is doubt about it my friend, power ruins people.

Nevertheless, you shouldn't press towards learning about Islam entirely as a seperate course area in schools.

Now here is some stuff I have been told from Allah. The respect of religion it self regardlessly should be identified and learned in a secular unconverting method. You should never seek to promote your religion, no matter how good it is. Once you start promoting it, then your faith is no longer pure and innocent. Your faith becomes vile and no longer a part of God (Allah).

A bit off from topic, but I bet some of you are going to question my constitutional standings on what I've just said. But I can easily tell you how you can come into contact of Allah as well. Think with an open heart and mind, never become attached to anything materialistic, respect all faiths and people as though they were equal, and learn about yourself seperate from what is preceived from this world. Once you have done all of that then you will hear the voice of Allah.

Now although I agree that history in general is important, trying to promote Islam without the consent of Allah himself is one of the biggest Taboos in Islam.

To promote your faith onto people that resist is the deadly sin of intoleranable pride. Speak with Allah and know why you must not show such fierce religious pride. By the way, I am not a muslim, but if you have read the Koran you would have known that all Christians, Muslims, and Jews are actually following the same faith regardlessly just under different interpretations. I am going to go on a little futher and note that you people should just call yourselves Abrahamians or something like that for following or continuing the faith started by Abraham the founder of Monotheism.

Whoa, thats a lot of hate there.

The ottomans had been trying to Westernize for at least a century before Ataturk showed up. The only reason why he was embraced was because the Ottoman Empire was failing and breaking apart under European pressure. The old system of government was failing, thats why they were looking for a new system. Extremist on both sides seem to assume the AK party has some incredible hidden agenda, which they:
1. have repeatedly denied, they claim loyalty to the secular system founded by ataturk
2. haven't implemented the last 3 years they were in power
All I see is a moderate party which is popular for bringing enormous economic growth and for wanting to remove some of the excesses of extreme nationalism and secularism. Good!

Btw, are you honestly expecting the AK party to 'bring back the khaliphate'? What gives you such hope? Looking at their policies of the last few years I see nothing that would suggest any such thing.

I'm sorry to break it to you all, but the Khaliphate is long dead and shall ever so remain dead unless you recognize the truth that it never really existed in the first place. The Ottoman Empire did not encompass the entire muslim world so it is not the Caliphate. It is just an expansive domain of Turkish rule over Arabs. The whole fall of the empire came about due to WWI. Britain and France took away massive areas of the Ottomans and established Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Israel, and Lebanon. I hope you've guys have been taking some notes from what I've just said. Now as for the holy land, it is still under the control of a muslim king. Therefore, you call still acknowledge there being a caliphate by the control permitted from the Saudi Family, if that is your definition of a caliphate.

But Allah has told me that the true Caliphate never existed, at least not on Earth that is. Islam was torn assunder by early followers of Muhammad as they mistook his teachings into establishing a bloody campaign of murderous plunders and conquest throughout the Beber and Iberian lands. That is not the way of Allah nor the way of Muhammad. So really and honestly, what are you talking about? There was no Caliphate, except in outerspace under the control of the Zhor people which are noted as angels in the Koran. And that is another thing I would like to talk about. In order for there to be a true caliphate, everyone here would literally have to become Zhor-like, because only the Zhor people truly follow Allah and Muhammad's teachings (which were really Jibril's, a Zhor known as Gabriel in the bible and Jibrail in Arabic.) I know about God's Angels, but you will have to private message me for that information.

[sevgi]

i havent read the last few posts...

ive wasted enuf time in this thread...some ppl jst dnt get it...so u end up giving up...

well..AK parti took the election out...as a turk..i know my country is gna be fine...they will inshallah continue to make the right choices. i dont think anyone needs to be worried....

im pretty much tired of my country being picked at by people who barely knwo anything...blabing their biased opinions around...

the elections over..can we close the thread mods?

[Skywalker]

Alright so let me get this straight...the AK party won? How come it's not on the news anywhere?

Secondly, wasn't everybody here against the AK party...or did I misunderstand?

Lastly, darkseid, presenting opinions as fact, especially those opinions that are baseless and illogical, is not very professional.



EDIT: whoops! Sorry, I found it...enjoy everyone!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070723/...rkey_elections

[sevgi]

can we close the thread now?

[Darkseid]

Lastly, darkseid, presenting opinions as fact, especially those opinions that are baseless and illogical, is not very professional.

What gives you the right to call my beliefs opinions? What if I called God an opinion? Hmmm?

Why are you acting so much like a hidiously rude bigot? Don't you know your actions are against your own religious manuscript? No wait... your rules don't imply on these sorts of occasions? I guess that makes every sinful act excusable if it were done by you? Right? Perhaps your inexcusable act will encourage others to attempt in bigotry or worst by simply following your example. That is right, you didn't thought about that now didn't you?

BTW, troll, you should leave these personal insults of yours out of the public domain. Do learn to behave yourself godless fiend! It is bad enough we lost England, I certainly hope we don't lose more innocent people due to these prejudice matters. Don't you concure?

[mine]

What these people don't realise is that they were once upon a time a group of nomads who had no land in the world whatsoever, yet Allaah gave them honor through Islaam - to the extent where they were the super power of the world for over 5 centuries.

Yet when they rebelled against their ownselves - they lost all their glory and honor, they turned away from the One who gave them honor in the first place.. to the extent where they lost their honor, their strength and became of the weakest of nations in the world. That's because Allaah gave them the honor when they turned to Him in full submission, but once they turned away - they lost all that.. because without a doubt only Allaah raises and lowers a people.

This is why we are in the position we are in today, because we have turned away from the religion of Allaah, we have turned our backs to enjoining the good and forbidding the evil. Yet through Allaah's Mercy, we are facing trials because we are turning back to Allaah, because one can only gain victory through trials and steadfastness, through patience. Once again the ummah will rise and Allaah will raise us once again - the same way the muslims of the times before, that's a promise from our Lord. :) May Allaah keep us steadfast, ameen.


There is a prophecy on this, the Romans will capture Istanbul / Constantinople - yet it will be recaptured near the final hour. Alot of the signs are already passing infront of our own eyes.


PS: If there are any turkish brothers and sisters, i don't mean to offend you or anything. :) I just wanted to explain that all honor comes from Allaah, and He will give it back to us once we are worthy of it. And this is why we face these trials today - Allaah is testing us to see if we truelly are worthy of it. Inshaa Allaah we will be soon enough.

dear qatada and england,
i'm turkish and i totaly agree with you. you touch good points indeed. AKP's victory is a good answer to those who want to opress muslims who make up of the majority of this very country. but it is ofcourse from Allah. Allah gave us honor. thats for sure. i hope we will show that we are worthy of it. may us pass this test too.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Ameen :)

[mine]

turkey will never recognise so-called armenian genocide....because it is a big lie...each of the ottoman empires was a true lover of our prophet mohammed..theır only aim was to spread islam...a man loving islam so much cannot kill anybody..armenians were a truly trusted nation in ottoman empire but they hit us from our backs...they killed so many turks ın eastern anatolia..turkey offers armenia to open historical arcihves but armenians refuses this ,dou you think why?

yes he is right he and i are among very few turks unders this topic and i see that u are regarding this issue from one perspective and missing alot. first this socalled genocide is just a claim and it shall ever be so. because they will never prove it as lond as they refuse to uncover archives. second turkey is not an unislamic country but it is caught btw being a european secular country and protecting its religous identity. from its beginings with ataturks efforts turkey turned its face to west; europe. it embraced its laws and way of life ie clothing etc. but it never gave up islam. this made people follw their religion personally or with small groups. thats true its is a shame that a girl with a scarf cannot go university in our country but things cannot be changed in a day. this is a trandition of this republic and when you dare to propose an islam friendly action immediately you are laballed as anti secularist and this make people fear who are less educated in islam. there are lots of key points that led us to this condition and we have to consider all. now with the reelection of AKP we are trying to make a difference in our country but step by step. with the help of Allah islam will gain more power and respect in our country it wont be a source of fear for some people any more.

[al-muslimah]

well mr. kAding,

i wouldn't expect u to understand you are an athiest remember.oh and well i have complete hope the kaliphate will be restored u will see yourself that is if u live that long.

[Darkseid]

dear qatada and england,
i'm turkish and i totaly agree with you. you touch good points indeed. AKP's victory is a good answer to those who want to opress muslims who make up of the majority of this very country. but it is ofcourse from Allah. Allah gave us honor. thats for sure. i hope we will show that we are worthy of it. may us pass this test too.

It was Muhammad that gave them Honor. Allah simply gave Muhammad the insight of how things should be in that area. Do not interpret the message of Muhammad (a secondary source of information from Allah) as a primary source of information from Allah. Remember that a book can never live up to the insight given from the being himself.

So what I'm saying is that would be completely illogical to speak of Allah as Muhammad.

[mine]

It was Muhammad that gave them Honor. Allah simply gave Muhammad the insight of how things should be in that area. Do not interpret the message of Muhammad (a secondary source of information from Allah) as a primary source of information from Allah. Remember that a book can never live up to the insight given from the being himself.

So what I'm saying is that would be completely illogical to speak of Allah as Muhammad.

thank you correcting me. this is why i'm here. to learn ,learn and practice..

[Darkseid]

thank you correcting me. this is why i'm here. to learn ,learn and practice..

There is no need for you to be so crude and sarcastic.

[mine]

There is no need for you to be so crude and sarcastic.

crude and sarcastic?? is that what you get from my reply? i was really sincere with my words but never mind. i dont think you will understand this one too. lets forget about it. i'm not here to hassle..

[north_malaysian]

Now the whole world knew that those "millions" of people demonstrating against AK party to defend secularism from Islam are just minority...

Thanks to Abdil Han for explaining and congrats to all AK party supporters...

I know that AK party is secular, but it promise to give freedom for Turkish to show their religiousness too... which is cool.. Congrats!!!

Hoping to see more of these people -----> :muslimah::muslimah::muslimah::muslimah::muslimah: accepted in Turkish universities, schools and public places. No more discriminations.

[Skywalker]

What gives you the right to call my beliefs opinions? What if I called God an opinion? Hmmm?

Why are you acting so much like a hidiously rude bigot? Don't you know your actions are against your own religious manuscript? No wait... your rules don't imply on these sorts of occasions? I guess that makes every sinful act excusable if it were done by you? Right? Perhaps your inexcusable act will encourage others to attempt in bigotry or worst by simply following your example. That is right, you didn't thought about that now didn't you?

BTW, troll, you should leave these personal insults of yours out of the public domain. Do learn to behave yourself godless fiend! It is bad enough we lost England, I certainly hope we don't lose more innocent people due to these prejudice matters. Don't you concure?

I don't usually swear, but *#$@&#*$&@!!! Just what the heck kind of response is that?! Where did I go against my religion? Where did I act as a bigot? How is my comment inexusable? When did I throw an isult an anybody? How the heck do you deduce that I'm godless?? And lastly...who are you?? ;D ;D

i'm turkish and i totaly agree with you. you touch good points indeed. AKP's victory is a good answer to those who want to opress muslims who make up of the majority of this very country. but it is ofcourse from Allah. Allah gave us honor. thats for sure. i hope we will show that we are worthy of it. may us pass this test too.

Ameen. I think it's a good possibility that Turkey's time as that much of a secular country made people realise how much they want more Islam in their lives. What do you guys think?

Now the whole world knew that those "millions" of people demonstrating against AK party to defend secularism from Islam are just minority...

That is indeed a good thing for all. :)

[north_malaysian]

That is indeed a good thing for all. :)

Maybe all of Muslims that called the Turks as irreligious, anti-islam etc should ask for forgiveness from the Turks and repent.:(

[yigiter187]

turkey will be the super power of future world...one of each two people supports ak party....turkey is an important country which spreads islam all around the world..we love turkey...

[sevgi]

hope ur rite brother...

superpower?thats a long shot...but insallah...

it is the only almost totally islamic country with a shot at the big world...ive said this before and almost got killed with the whole basortu(hijab) problem.

i thne went on to argue that a hijab is not what makes a country islamic...but i got attacked again...so i backed out and really want this thread closed coz im so sick of my country being picked on.

selamlar kardes.

[yigiter187]

excuse me mr. ENGLAND,

Turkey was once one of the greatest centers of learning until that shaytan(satan) and big kafeer Mustafa Kemal Atturk and the western governments made the country secular that shaytan i hope he is burning in hell now because he certaintly deserves it.inshallah we will have our khilaphate back.All the forms of governments that exist today in every country is unjust therefor the only justified form of government and law is an islamic government that acts accordin to the shariah of islamlike in the time of the khulafa-oo-rashideen.Today turkey is an embarassment to the muslmworld because its haram government just like the haram governments of th U.S. and every westernized country.

dont forget that turkey carried the flag of islam about 600 yeras..and turkey is the most developed islamic country..turkey will never be a toy of usa or eu..we dont need to be member of eu...with new elections no country can stop turkey...

[yigiter187]

hope ur rite brother...

superpower?thats a long shot...but insallah...

it is the only almost totally islamic country with a shot at the big world...ive said this before and almost got killed with the whole basortu(hijab) problem.

i thne went on to argue that a hijab is not what makes a country islamic...but i got attacked again...so i backed out and really want this thread closed coz im so sick of my country being picked on.

selamlar kardes.

ve aleyna aleykum selam kardeşim...burada da bir türke rastladık elhamdulillah...:smile:

[sevgi]

ve aleyna aleykum selam kardeşim...burada da bir türke rastladık elhamdulillah...:smile:

bak kizarlar sonra...birazdan silerler bu postleri...gorceksin...ama simdilik turkcenin tadini cikartmak istiyorum...biraz hasret gidereyim guzelim turkcemle...

tanistigimiza memnun oldum...baya turk var bu forumda...cok aktif olan yok ama...genelde cephede yapa yanlik savasiyorum...burdakiler bazen anlamiyorlar...cogu ermeni soy kirimini gercek olarak algiliyorlar...korkunc birsey...bizde musluman kardeslerimiz diye el uzatiyoruz...

ben sana pm atim dur...

[yigiter187]

This is why Turkey are part of the EU. They have more sense than the others.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Million Protesters Gather In Istanbul

Updated: 17:52, Sunday April 29, 2007
Up to a million protesters have gathered in Istanbul accusing the government of planning an Islamist state and demanding it withdraw its presidential candidate.

Despite the Istanbul protests and a threat from the powerful army to intervene in the election, Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul, architect of Turkey's EU membership drive, said he would remain the ruling AK Party's candidate for head of state.

The protesters flooded the streets of Turkey's largest city to priase the army and denounce Gul and Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, whose AK Party enjoys a huge parliamentary majority, as a threat to a secular order separating state and religion.

"Turkey is secular and will remain secular," they chanted.

"Turkey is under threat from the AK Party leadership. We will not be able to express our thoughts like this if they stay in power," said protester Cigdem Yilmaz, 22, a student.

Top Turkish businessmen called for early parliamentary elections, which the AK party would appear well placed to win.

Many secularists are worried by Gul's Islamist past and the fact his wife wears the Muslim headscarf banned in universities and public offices.

But the AK Party, which has vigorously pressed liberal reforms and European Union membership ambitions, since election in 2002, denies any secret agenda.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...263302,00.html

:D :D :D :D
ak party replied your this post ı think...

[Amadeus85]

dont forget that turkey carried the flag of islam about 600 yeras..

Yes they did, Turkey was even once close to get to Europe.But they were stopped at the gates of Vienna :D (1685).

[yigiter187]

Yes they did, Turkey was even once close to get to Europe.But they were stopped at the gates of Vienna :D (1685).

...so we didnt really needed europe,if we needed we coul take it easily...we went there to birng humanity to take mind tı europe but europeans didnt wanted ı think :):D

ottoman empire=symbol of tolerance,humanity,culture.....

[Amadeus85]

...so we didnt really needed europe,if we needed we coul take it easily...we went there to birng humanity to take mind tı europe but europeans didnt wanted ı think :):D

ottoman empire=symbol of tolerance,humanity,culture.....

:uuh: Some people yet have sense of humour. :D

You couldnt take Europe easily because Ottoman Empire was beaten twice at the gates of Vienna. Since the XVIII century Ottoman Turkey lost dozens of war with european countries, especially Russia destroyed turkish army so many times that Turks at last decided to embrace some european war tactics and strategies. You went there to bring humanity?:giggling: LOL! Ottoman Empire was called a ill man of Europe since XVIII century.

[yigiter187]

:uuh: Some people yet have sense of humour. :D

You couldnt take Europe easily because Ottoman Empire was beaten twice at the gates of Vienna. Since the XVIII century Ottoman Turkey lost dozens of war with european countries, especially Russia destroyed turkish army so many times that Turks at last decided to embrace some european war tactics and strategies. You went there to bring humanity?:giggling: LOL! Ottoman Empire was called a ill man of Europe since XVIII century.

ill ottoman is better than healthy europe.....we dont forget war of gallipoli....even if the whole world comes together,they cant pass gallipoli......why?becasue we battle from our hearts like these turks(during gallipoli war)

he lifted a rocket of 250 kgs..

they had no weapon(even shoes) to battle,BUT THEY HAD FAİTHS AND HEARTS...

...they are worshipping ALLAH to die for this great country....

wowwwwww..we owe this country to our ancestors like theese people.....

[wilberhum]

ill ottoman is better than healthy europe

So why are they trying to join the EU? :-[
The EU didn't ask them to join. :skeleton:

[yigiter187]

So why are they trying to join the EU? :-[
The EU didn't ask them to join. :skeleton:

it is the politic of government..ı dont want eorope,ı dont like europe....we should join with islam countries..

[wilberhum]

it is the politic of government..ı dont want eorope,ı dont like europe....we should join with islam countries..

I wonder why the government does not agree with you.

I think every one would be better off if you got your way.

[yigiter187]

I wonder why the government does not agree with you.

I think every one would be better off if you got your way.

40% of turkish dont want to be a member of eu....
the remaining dont know why they want eu membership..ın my eyes turkey is more developed than each european country..

[mine]

So why are they trying to join the EU? :-[
The EU didn't ask them to join. :skeleton:

because it became a must for turkey. turkey has always been considered as a european country because of its strategic geopolitical location. its location resulted inclose relationships with european countries. these official ties need turkey to join this union. and remember this effort to get into EU has a long history it dates back to 60s. in these times it was a kind of salvation and means of development as the union came with many incentives.anyway, but now turkey is much stronger. though it does not need euorpean powers that much anymore, it still needs to have an allience with them. giving it up will also eat up all these year's endeavour. thus we have to go to the end this way or that way. we cant let it go any more. but it doesnot mean that we are miserably depend on it. it is part of politics anyway....

[Amadeus85]

40% of turkish dont want to be a member of eu....
the remaining dont know why they want eu membership..ın my eyes turkey is more developed than each european country..

Which country particularly you mean, England, Germany or France maybe?:giggling:

[KAding]

Now the whole world knew that those "millions" of people demonstrating against AK party to defend secularism from Islam are just minority...

It depends, 53% didn't vote for the AK party. How many of those were secular? Or rather, were there any other Islamic parties running that part of the 53%, who didn't vote for the CHP and MHP, voted for? I was under the impression there were no other 'Islamic' parties running? I could be wrong though. If I am not those voting for Islamic parties were still not a majority.

Thanks to Abdil Han for explaining and congrats to all AK party supporters...

I know that AK party is secular, but it promise to give freedom for Turkish to show their religiousness too... which is cool.. Congrats!!!

Hoping to see more of these people -----> :muslimah::muslimah::muslimah::muslimah::muslimah: accepted in Turkish universities, schools and public places. No more discriminations.

I agree. More religious freedom is good. More freedom in general is good. Wearing Christian/Buddhist/Atheist symbols should then also be allowed of course, otherwise it would constitute discrimination. But I don't expect the AKP to start discriminating non-Muslims, at least it hasn't been doing any such thing in the last few years.

[KAding]

dont forget that turkey carried the flag of islam about 600 yeras..and turkey is the most developed islamic country..turkey will never be a toy of usa or eu..we dont need to be member of eu...with new elections no country can stop turkey...

it is the politic of government..ı dont want eorope,ı dont like europe....we should join with islam countries..

But this isn't part of the AK party program, right? From the AK party program on their website:

http://eng.akparti.org.tr/english/partyprogramme.html#6
· Turkey has been in close relation with Europe both geographically and historically. For this reason, relations with European nations shall continue to be at the top of the list in Turkey's foreign policy agenda.

· Turkey shall rapidly fulfill its promises in its relations with the European Union and the conditions, which the union demands of other candidate nations as well. Thus, it shall prevent the occupation of the agenda with artificial problems.

· Parallel to the contributions made by Turkey inside NATO until the present day, efforts shall be maintained for Turkey to take the place it deserves within the new European Security and Defense Concept created within the framework of the new European defense strategy.

· The cooperation with the United States of America which had been defense oriented shall be maintained and this cooperation shall be extended to areas of the economy, investments, science and technology.

So why are you so happy they won then? Do you believe they have a hidden agenda? Are they lying in their party program? Why do they have an image of Ataturk on their homepage?

This is all so confusing. It's as if everyone thinks the AK party stands for things the AK party themselves claim are not standing for. Do all these people know something about the AK party that I do not?

[KAding]

because it became a must for turkey. turkey has always been considered as a european country because of its strategic geopolitical location. its location resulted inclose relationships with european countries. these official ties need turkey to join this union. and remember this effort to get into EU has a long history it dates back to 60s. in these times it was a kind of salvation and means of development as the union came with many incentives.anyway, but now turkey is much stronger. though it does not need euorpean powers that much anymore, it still needs to have an allience with them. giving it up will also eat up all these year's endeavour. thus we have to go to the end this way or that way. we cant let it go any more. but it doesnot mean that we are miserably depend on it. it is part of politics anyway....

I hope Turkey joins the EU eventually, its a beautiful country. But opposition from both Islamist and extreme nationalists in Turkey and Islamophobes in Western Europe is pretty large though :-\. I doubt it will happen any time soon, if ever :(.

[mine]

Why do they have an image of Ataturk on their homepage?

first of all image of Ataturk is an icon of republic of turkey. it is obligated to be hung on goverment offices and most people hang it even in private places. it has nothing to do with AKP's agenda. it has just symbolic value. EU issue is more complicated than this. people have trust on it because of its economic benefits. but most people are against it as it makes turkey accept european norms. what drives these people crazy is E Commission's attitudes and its neverending demands. turkey is not worse than bulgaria or poland. they do this just because we are muslim. they are affraid if we enter EU it will shatter the christian integrity of it thus they try to extend this process. this is really annoying.

turkey has worked hard on it so far. if it gives it up, all these efforts will be wasted. people will be disappointed. now is not the time to quit. thus AKP gives promises about it. it is understandable.

[Amadeus85]

I hope Turkey joins the EU eventually, its a beautiful country. But opposition from both Islamist and extreme nationalists in Turkey and Islamophobes in Western Europe is pretty large though :-\. I doubt it will happen any time soon, if ever :(.

Actually i dont know whether i would like to see Turkey in EU or not. There are many "pro" and "contra" thoughts in my mind. First lets consider the pro things. The most important is that Turkey would be the first muslim country in EU and it could be a good example for other muslim countries to follow the path of democracy and stabilization. In nowadays world, full of tensions between Islamic World and West, it may be important thing. For sure turkish economy would be strenghten by european funds, it could just make thic ountry safer and just better. What else.. The minorities in Turkey would be guarded better in EU. There would be more freedom of faith.
Now contra. Does Turkey really belong to Europe? What are the european borders? With Turkey Europe would have borders with Iran and Afghanistan.Thousands of turkish people would try to go to western european countries.It will create more anti immigrant attitudes.Turkey would become the biggest country in EU ( bigger than Germany) with the largest amounts of votes in E. Parliament.Are Europeans ready for that? Finally, is EU just a economical club or an organization of countries sharing similar values and culture. If letting Turkey to EU, why not allow Morocco, Algeria ?

[Amadeus85]

. turkey is not worse than bulgaria or poland. they do this just because we are muslim. they are affraid if we enter EU it will shatter the christian integrity of it thus they try to extend this process. this is really annoying.

.

First of all, the christian integrity and heritage is the last thing that concerns the european beaurocrats in Brussels. Trust me . Second thing, you say that Turkey isnt worse than Polands or Bulgaria. Worse in what? In Poland no minorities are persecuted (like Kurds),no one kills missionaries, there is no religious persecution, no one wants to penalize adultery.

[KAding]

EU welcomes Erdogan election win
The EU has welcomed Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan's election victory, and urged him to relaunch reforms which could lead to membership of the bloc.

EU Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn said a new Turkish government would need to make "concrete progress" on freedom of expression and religion.

Mr Erdogan has pledged to "work with determination" towards EU membership.

He won a second five-year term in office after his AK Party increased its share of the vote to 46% on Sunday.

The election was called after opposition parties in parliament blocked the AKP's nominee for the post of president, causing political deadlock.

But despite his electoral victory, Mr Erdogan will lack the two-thirds majority in parliament needed to be able force through his candidate.

'Major challenges ahead'
On Monday, the EU officials congratulated Mr Erdogan on his party's victory, describing it as a mandate for the reforms it wants Turkey to complete during its membership talks.

However, the bloc's enlargement commissioner said the new Turkish government faced "major challenges ahead".

"It is essential that the new government will relaunch the legal and economic reforms with full determination and concrete results," Mr Rehn said.

"We need to see concrete progress on such fundamental freedoms as the freedom of expression, the freedom of religion."

The president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, also welcomed the victory, saying the vote came "at an important moment for the people of Turkey".

The UK Foreign Secretary, David Miliband, said it was very important for Europe to "reach out" to the new government.

"A stable and secure political situation in Turkey is massively in our interest and we will certainly want to be taking forward our links with this very important country," he added.

Austrian Foreign Minister Ursula Plassnik said everyone was interested in having a "modern, dynamic, successful Turkey as a partner".

"We expect this government that has a good track record over the past years to continue with even more ambition," she said.

Majority reduced
Correspondents have warned, however, that Mr Erdogan's mandate for reform may be limited by the workings of the Turkish electoral system.

Although the AKP has been returned to power with a larger share of the vote - 12 percentage points more than in 2002 - its share of the seats has dropped to 340 out of the 550 in parliament.

The main secularist opposition group, the Republican People's Party, also increased its share of the vote, but its number of seats fell by more than 60 to 112.

The two main parties have fewer seats because the right-wing Nationalist Action Party (MHP) passed the 10% threshold to enter parliament, unlike in 2002.

This time, the MHP won 71 seats with 14% of the vote.

No other parties passed the threshold, although 28 independent candidates, including more than 20 members of the Kurdish Democratic Society Party, won seats.

It is the first time in more than a decade that a Kurdish party is represented in parliament.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...pe/6912221.stm

Published: 2007/07/23 17:35:03 GMT

© BBC MMVII

I think the AK party is the best of both worlds really. They can be friends of both the West and more orthodox Muslims. For now at least, I'm not sure how long they can keep that up.

[yigiter187]

Which country particularly you mean, England, Germany or France maybe?:giggling:

ı said ezch of the eurepean countries....it includes deutschland,frnace,englan,italy,portugal,holland,b elgium.....:shade:

[KAding]

Why do they have an image of Ataturk on their homepage?

first of all image of Ataturk is an icon of republic of turkey. it is obligated to be hung on goverment offices and most people hang it even in private places. it has nothing to do with AKP's agenda. it has just symbolic value. EU issue is more complicated than this. people have trust on it because of its economic benefits. but most people are against it as it makes turkey accept european norms. what drives these people crazy is E Commission's attitudes and its neverending demands. turkey is not worse than bulgaria or poland. they do this just because we are muslim. they are affraid if we enter EU it will shatter the christian integrity of it thus they try to extend this process. this is really annoying.

I agree. But Muslim-Western relations are quite bad right now. Once they improve so will the chances of Turkey being treated like a 'normal' EU candidate country. Understand that Westerners also feel their 'Christian' identity threatened, like many Turks who feel their Muslim identity would be under pressure from the EU.

[yigiter187]

Which country particularly you mean, England, Germany or France maybe?:giggling:

But this isn't part of the AK party program, right? From the AK party program on their website:


So why are you so happy they won then? Do you believe they have a hidden agenda? Are they lying in their party program? Why do they have an image of Ataturk on their homepage?

This is all so confusing. It's as if everyone thinks the AK party stands for things the AK party themselves claim are not standing for. Do all these people know something about the AK party that I do not?

ı dont like europe,ı like ak party because only "conservative" party is ak party in turkey...ak party is supporter of secularism or they are not opposite of secularism,so it is normal that they have an image of atatürk on their home-page...

[KAding]

First of all, the christian integrity and heritage is the last thing that concerns the european beaurocrats in Brussels. Trust me .

But its not the bureaucrats in Brussels that decide on what countries can join, its the heads of state, in other words the national politicians.

[yigiter187]

Which country particularly you mean, England, Germany or France maybe?:giggling:

each of the european country ı said....england,france,germany,spain,portugal,.... ...

[yigiter187]

eu will never joın with us....because we are muslims...an eu is a union of christian states...

[Amadeus85]

But its not the bureaucrats in Brussels that decide on what countries can join, its the heads of state, in other words the national politicians.

'Till the european super state becomes with european president.United States of Europe. Nation, nationality, national interest.. Brussels bureaucrats have alergy on those words.

[wilberhum]

eu will never joın with us....because we are muslims...an eu is a union of christian states...

Some people just can’t grasp the concept of “Secularism”. :hmm:

[yigiter187]

Some people just can’t grasp the concept of “Secularism”. :hmm:

then say the reason that they wont joın with turkey...?
are bulgaria,romania,slovenia,hungary etc.. better countries than turkey...or more important countries than turkey?

[wilberhum]

then say the reason that they wont joın with turkey...?
are bulgaria,romania,slovenia,hungary etc.. better countries than turkey...or more important countries than turkey?

I would put Turkey at the bottom of almost any list. But that's just me. :giggling:

[yigiter187]

I would put Turkey at the bottom of almost any list. But that's just me. :giggling:

ı already wanted to learn the opınıon of just you..

[mine]

[QUOTE=Aaron85;797169]First of all, the christian integrity and heritage is the last thing that concerns the european beaurocrats in Brussels. Trust me . Second thing, you say that Turkey isnt worse than Polands or Bulgaria. Worse in what? In Poland no minorities are persecuted (like Kurds),no one kills missionaries, there is no religious persecution, no one wants to penalize adultery.[/QUOT

like kurds haa?? i exclude exceptions because i personally know many kurds that are good people. but those on the mountains they are terorists no other word can explain what they do there. they wage a guerilla war against our soldiers. do you know how many soldier is killed each and every day. they play dirty please dont defend their attacks. we never discriminate them at all. they are employed in gov offices they make the most profitable trade jobs no one impede them. as long as they live in peace with us they are more than welcome. do you hear any kurdish people killed in the street. i mean any normal civillian?? you cantt. what you labelled as discrimination is just selfdefense. please mind it...

[yigiter187]

[QUOTE=mine;797228]

First of all, the christian integrity and heritage is the last thing that concerns the european beaurocrats in Brussels. Trust me . Second thing, you say that Turkey isnt worse than Polands or Bulgaria. Worse in what? In Poland no minorities are persecuted (like Kurds),no one kills missionaries, there is no religious persecution, no one wants to penalize adultery.[/QUOT

like kurds haa?? i exclude exceptions because i personally know many kurds that are good people. but those on the mountains they are terorists no other word can explain what they do there. they wage a guerilla war against our soldiers. do you know how many soldier is killed each and every day. they play dirty please dont defend their attacks. we never discriminate them at all. they are employed in gov offices they make the most profitable trade jobs no one impede them. as long as they live in peace with us they are more than welcome. do you hear any kurdish people killed in the street. i mean any normal civillian?? you cantt. what you labelled as discrimination is just selfdefense. please mind it...

they dont know what the case,situation is..

[Amadeus85]

like kurds haa?? i exclude exceptions because i personally know many kurds that are good people. but those on the mountains they are terorists no other word can explain what they do there. they wage a guerilla war against our soldiers. do you know how many soldier is killed each and every day. they play dirty please dont defend their attacks. we never discriminate them at all. they are employed in gov offices they make the most profitable trade jobs no one impede them. as long as they live in peace with us they are more than welcome. do you hear any kurdish people killed in the street. i mean any normal civillian?? you cantt. what you labelled as discrimination is just selfdefense. please mind it...

Wow, as if i heard an Israeli. :D *

*(Just replace Kurds with Palestinians.)

[mine]

Wow, as if i heard an Israeli. :D *

*(Just replace Kurds with Palestinians.)

apparently you know nothing what's going on in turkey. you are guided by european perspectives. ok let it be. but i warn you never ever compare us with an israeli.!! i take it as a serious offence. i hope its over now.

[Amadeus85]

apparently you know nothing what's going on in turkey. you are guided by european perspectives. ok let it be. but i warn you never ever compare us with an israeli.!! i take it as a serious offence. i hope its over now.

Its tru that i dont know much about this conflict. But dont Kurds fight for independence just like Palestinian Arabs?

[yigiter187]

Wow, as if i heard an Israeli. :D *

*(Just replace Kurds with Palestinians.)

pkk killed 40.000 people so far and most of the victims are kurds...what is your commend on this then?
kurds and turks have same privilages ın turkey,why they are killin innocent people then?
there are so many different races ın turkey but they dont kill anybody but kurdsısh terrorist at mountains do...why?
many of the south eastern anatolia(region that kurds live) use electiricity illegally(%85 of them),they dont pay taxes but turks do..then what is the matter...?


ı....................because pkk terrorist use amrecan guns and italian mines...

[Amadeus85]

pkk killed 40.000 people so far and most of the victims are kurds...what is your commend on this then?
kurds and turks have same privilages ın turkey,why they are killin innocent people then?
there are so many different races ın turkey but they dont kill anybody but kurdsısh terrorist at mountains do...why?
many of the south eastern anatolia(region that kurds live) use electiricity illegally(%85 of them),they dont pay taxes but turks do..then what is the matter...?


ı....................because pkk terrorist use amrecan guns and italian mines...

As i said i know very little about this conflict, so i wont continue this.

[yigiter187]

As i said i know very little about this conflict, so i wont continue this.

then please dont comment on this subject and dont compare us with israel....thank you..

[abdil han]

salam all!

i tried to read every new post here n i wanted reply some orf them...

first;i hope AKP can handle to make this country where doesnt need any union,,,

second; about the eu;i used to support to be a member of EU but after i saw that they r just checking our identity,culture,religion,tradition,,,,etc,,i changed my mind,,and now i believe that even we do everythng they asked in terms,they will never take us if we dont change our religion or give some lands to armenians,kurds,greeks,,etc...be coz they showed their equal!! deeds by taking southern cyprus in Eu with cyorus problem(as if its just ur problem!),,and forcing us to accept the armenian genocide(they should accept their proved genocides in northern africa first!
insted of a armenian dream)


third;some of muslim bros n sisters said that the caliphate was abolished by ataturk,so he is an enemy of islam; it depends,,caliphate had lost its importance n effect already in 1900s,,Sultan Mehmed Reshad declared Jihad in 1915 as the Calipha of islam,,but it didnt make the impact which has planned,,,but i also agree that it was a mistake to abolish it,,caliphate was the only title which united us at that time,,after 1924(the date of abolishing the caliphate)they could force nationalist ideas more easier than before...
and they could departed us into small countries,,but i wanna say that it was Britain's plan,they made us enemies of eachothers with my blessed muslim brothers...

but the claim of Saudiis' caliphate;a big majority in Saudi arabia is wahhabe,it s impossible for us to accept their control...

fourth;to some one who says that turkiye is in the bottom of every list;i think you are sleeping for years,,turkiye is the biggest tv-fridge-n such thngs producer in europe,turkiye produced more than 1 million cars last year,,turkiye is the 16th biggest economy in the world,,turkiye's economy is growing up very rapidly(2nd in the world,,after china),and turkiye is becoming an energy coridor,,after a couple years europeans will ask us to join EU,,,should i give more info??!!

fifth;Ottomans couldnt take wienna,thats true,,we lost many battles in 18th century,thats true,,

but we never lost our honour,justice n equality,,ottomans were nt emperialists like british,french,italians,etc...we never forced to change the people's language or religion,we never enslaved people who is under our control,,,,a clear example; greece,bulgaria,serbia,ukrania etc was ruled by ottomans for about 400-500 years n they r still chirstians n they are still speaking their own languages,,none of them speak turkish...but morocco,tunusia,algeria etc was ruled by some developed! europeans for about 40-50 years and all of them speaks frenhc,italian whatever...
what justice or what democracy are they talking about now??!!,who kills kurds here?? who made a genocide?! im in turkiye for 25 years n im still wondering these questions...

for the last thng;good night every body:)
wassalam

[north_malaysian]

but the claim of Saudiis' caliphate;a big majority in Saudi arabia is wahhabe,it s impossible for us to accept their control...

and countries like Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia too....

turkiye is the biggest tv-fridge-n such thngs producer in europe,turkiye produced more than 1 million cars last year,,turkiye is the 16th biggest economy in the world,,turkiye's economy is growing up very rapidly(2nd in the world,,after china),and turkiye is becoming an energy coridor,,after a couple years europeans will ask us to join EU,,,

dont join Europe.... join Asia!!!! We love $$$$$$$ :giggling: and dont really care how you rule your country. Plus, Turkey can be a winner of football in Asian region.

[yigiter187]

and countries like Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia too....

[/B]

dont join Europe.... join Asia!!!! We love $$$$$$$ :giggling: and dont really care how you rule your country. Plus, Turkey can be a winner of football in Asian region.

yes ı agree with you....we dont need to be member of eu...but they will need us in near future..we should organize the muslim union(iran,syria,arabia,turkish republics of asia,malaysia,)...then we will be much more powerful...

[north_malaysian]

yes ı agree with you....we dont need to be member of eu...but they will need us in near future..we should organize the muslim union(iran,syria,arabia,turkish republics of asia,malaysia,)...then we will be much more powerful...

From what I've been observing... Malaysian government might be more interested in forming Eastern Asia Union than a Muslim Union. Maybe because of our ''Look East Policy''.

[guyabano]

but they will need us in near future

Can you please explain me that? I'm curious

The only one, we (the whole world) we have to be afraid of, is China ! They are on their best way to become a world power. So start to learn cantonese writing.

[yigiter187]

From what I've been observing... Malaysian government might be more interested in forming Eastern Asia Union than a Muslim Union. Maybe because of our ''Look East Policy''.

..then we will exclude malaysia from list...:D no need to add a new one..

[yigiter187]

Can you please explain me that? I'm curious

The only one, we (the whole world) we have to be afraid of, is China ! They are on their best way to become a world power. So start to learn cantonese writing.

because the spirit of ottoman is awakening..the power of ottomans....we will be the super power of world....although we had economic cirisis we have become the 16th great economy of the world in a short time....we have strategic area...when we start using our resources properly.we will be the greatest economy of world..insahaallah

[north_malaysian]

..then we will exclude malaysia from list...:D no need to add a new one..

i think the current government would be ruling this country for the next 100 years as the people are so much into their propagandas and the election commission sucks!!! :'(

[guyabano]

because the spirit of ottoman is awakening..the power of ottomans....we will be the super power of world....although we had economic cirisis we have become the 16th great economy of the world in a short time....we have strategic area...when we start using our resources properly.we will be the greatest economy of world..insahaallah

Yes, sure, and I'm the next Ceasar of the roman empire ! :coolious:

What is this strategic area? Super power, when?

You didn't provide any reliable sources.Or is that finally only your personal opinion?

[sevgi]

Yes, sure, and I'm the next Ceasar of the roman empire ! :coolious:

What is this strategic area? Super power, when?

You didn't provide any reliable sources.Or is that finally only your personal opinion?

turkey yeilds the power to pertain allies and ties with both the middle east, asia, and europe...if u need a world map, my lil bro has one on his desk...you could ask him for a peek...

trade links, foriegn investment...the turkish ytl is neck on neck with the $AU at the moment...

the govt, with AK back in business, is running smoothly..due to its long time serving...the experienced AK party officials know what Turkey is capable of now...and they are strategising to seek it through...

these are all out in th open...u want a reliabel source? my grandpa knows better than that dude...how bout google...bland enough for you?

thats what bro yigiter was implying...only, hes observant enough to realise that these things are unbelievably obvious...

any more questions or should we call it a game?

[sevgi]

Yes, sure, and I'm the next Ceasar of the roman empire ! :coolious:

What is this strategic area? Super power, when?

You didn't provide any reliable sources.Or is that finally only your personal opinion?

oh ye...

dnt u know that rome wasnt built in a day...

get cracking...u only have ur lifetime...

oh...shakespeare...u shud read him more often...he makes ceasars death look really good.u think u cud live up to it?

[guyabano]

turkey yeilds the power to pertain allies and ties with both the middle east, asia, and europe...if u need a world map, my lil bro has one on his desk...you could ask him for a peek...

trade links, foriegn investment...the turkish ytl is neck on neck with the $AU at the moment...

the govt, with AK back in business, is running smoothly..due to its long time serving...the experienced AK party officials know what Turkey is capable of now...and they are strategising to seek it through...

these are all out in th open...u want a reliabel source? my grandpa knows better than that dude...how bout google...bland enough for you?

thats what bro yigiter was implying...only, hes observant enough to realise that these things are unbelievably obvious...

any more questions or should we call it a game?

Oh please, I asked for reliable sources, and I know the worldmap pretty good since i travelled a lot. next Worldpower is China, like it or not ! Just check at which speed they increase productivity, but from turkey, I see nada. Even nobody speak about turkey, expect when it comes again to some scandals like the german teenager imprisoned for having a flirt with a british girl. So openminded Turkey want to be !

next !

[yigiter187]

Yes, sure, and I'm the next Ceasar of the roman empire ! :coolious:

What is this strategic area? Super power, when?

You didn't provide any reliable sources.Or is that finally only your personal opinion?

want a reliable source?
when eu starts begging turkey to join them..you will see the reliable source....:D

[sevgi]

Oh please, I asked for reliable sources, and I know the worldmap pretty good since i travelled a lot. next Worldpower is China, like it or not ! Just check at which speed they increase productivity, but from turkey, I see nada. Even nobody speak about turkey, expect when it comes again to some scandals like the german teenager imprisoned for having a flirt with a british girl. So openminded Turkey want to be !

next !

amen..i here ur troops rolling in ceasar...

im not saying china isnt the next superpower...i agree on that...but to blindly droop around, ignoring the fcat that Turkey isnt an unbelievably capable country and nation..and, if u wana go by what ppl say about 'other' countries...ur gna go far...

[guyabano]

amen..i here ur troops rolling in ceasar...

im not saying china isnt the next superpower...i agree on that...but to blindly droop around, ignoring the fcat that Turkey isnt an unbelievably capable country and nation..and, if u wana go by what ppl say about 'other' countries...ur gna go far...

OK, I live in the heart of Europe and also one of the fondation countries of the EU, Robert Schumann, does that tell you something? Well, most people here don't like Turkish people because wanting to become a member of the EU but already ranting about everything. This is not the best start, honestly. Erdogan take his mouth rather full !

Statements like this

Sunday's meeting had been clouded in advance by Erdogan's remarks in an interview published Saturday that he "had seriously expected more" from Germany's six-month EU presidency.

.. he's not gonna make a lot of friends within the EU !

[guyabano]

want a reliable source?
when eu starts begging turkey to join them..you will see the reliable source....:D

You still didn't provide me a source, and begging..... ohhhh

[abdil han]

expect when it comes again to some scandals like the german teenager imprisoned for having a flirt with a british girl. So openminded Turkey want to be !

next !

is this being told like this in there??

your innocent teenager! tried to rape that british girl...
he is nt the first one who has flirts here in turkiye,try to think why he is blamed only...

by the way,
im nt so much hopefull to be a superpower in near future(i mean 10-15 years),,but i think n hope that we will manage to unite our muslim brothers ...

of course if democratic EU n US leave us alone here!
their democracy kills 100s of people everyday in Irak etc..
and they r trying to show some countries as our enemies,like Iran...

we turks never had a war with iranians for more than 350 years...but we had our biggest war with ''most democratic EU members'' 85 years ago only!!

why we fear Iran?! why we fear Irak!?

if europeans dont like us,why they dont want us to give up in this EU manner?

the Ottomans were over,
thats true,i agree with you,,but why europeans dont like us,some of them hate us! be coz they still fear us,like in the past,,they still think we ll try to invade europe! dont say ''no'',,,in 2003 when they were discussing about our membership in wienna,many people was carrying ''hold wienna,like in 1683'' written boards...

you may say iam dreaming,but;
a man lives with hope,with belief,with faith,,and thank Allah that we have enough hope,belief n faith...if we will do the right things,Allah will give us glory again...inshaAllah...

the man, who founded the Ottoman Empire,Osman Beg, had a dream;a tree comes out from his chest n spreaded to 3 continents in the world,then they ruled 3 continents with justice for 500 years,,,

we had the dream already,,,waiting for its time now...

wassalam

[Dynasty]

What's wrong with secular stae??

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: Soon as turkiyah gets back to Islam, the sooner we can restore our Khliphate inshaAllah!!!:salambox:

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: brother Dynasty, secularism is haram (not permissable) form of govt. same with "democracy", capitalism,communism,moaism,socialism, etc. Shariah (islamic law) is the ONLY laws to govern a nation by it goes for somthing like a nation down to how an individual acts..etc..:sl: Allah(SWT) knows best for us.

[abdil han]

:sl: Soon as turkiyah gets back to Islam, the sooner we can restore our Khliphate inshaAllah!!!:salambox:

wa aleykum assalam,

amin bro,soon inshaAllah:)

but dont say that ''back to islam'' as if we had been converted into somethng else..

but i got you,,no worry:)

wassalam

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: dear bro Abdil han, i mean as to say look at how far alot of ppl stray from islam and look at how we are compared to the best generation that of Al Roosulullah(SAW) we have alot of getting back to basics of islam inshaAllah, al Rub will aid us we need only struggle to fear Allah(SWT) more inshaAllah. :sl: :beard:

[sevgi]

OK, I live in the heart of Europe and also one of the fondation countries of the EU, Robert Schumann, does that tell you something? Well, most people here don't like Turkish people because wanting to become a member of the EU but already ranting about everything. This is not the best start, honestly. Erdogan take his mouth rather full !

i didnt ask where u lived...it doesnt strenthen ur argument in the slightest...
.. he's not gonna make a lot of friends within the EU !

the eu is built on friendship n trust isnt it...i think u shud revise ur political understanding of foreign affairs...

[KAding]

I hope you guys won't become disappointed in the AK party, you might be expecting too much from them. They have been in power for a few years now and have not shown any inclination to implement sharia law. Neither does their party program call for an Islamic state or anything in that direction.

[sevgi]

I hope you guys won't become disappointed in the AK party, you might be expecting too much from them. They have been in power for a few years now and have not shown any inclination to implement sharia law. Neither does their party program call for an Islamic state or anything in that direction.

of course theyre not...anyone who thinks that really needs therapy..really.

[guyabano]

the eu is built on friendship n trust isnt it...i think u shud revise ur political understanding of foreign affairs...

The European Union (EU) is a sui generis supranational political body, made up of twenty-seven member states across Europe. It was established in 1993 by the Maastricht Treaty and is the de facto successor to the six-member European Economic Community founded in 1957 in the Treaty of Rome. Since 1957 new accessions have raised the number of member states, and competences have expanded. As a result, the EU can be described as both a supranational and an intergovernmental body.

Not my credit, check Wikipedia

But one thing is for sure, the EU has not been created for the sake of 'friendship' ?? Where do you get your info ?

[sevgi]

Not my credit, check Wikipedia

But one thing is for sure, the EU has not been created for the sake of 'friendship' ?? Where do you get your info ?

i was actually mocking ur understanding that erdogan isnt gna make any friends in the eu and thus will have a hard time...

wikipedia...thats a source...if thats what u wana call it.wateva makes u happi mate.

look...i dno wat ur problem is with turkey and turks...turkey is a strong and prospering country...if u like it or not...turkey will or will not be accepted into the eu..if u like it or not...and turkey will or will not become superpower..if u like it or not...its none of ur busines...stop trying to find tacky ways of validating ur views and opinions...

if u dnt think turkey is not worthy of what it is earning and gaining...then i cant help u...its in the hands of God and political institutions...not u me, tom or harry...

so lets keep the discussions civil...erdogans friendliness is none of ur business...were not here to gossip about prime ministers...

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: akhee Musulmaan, mashaAllah, nice documentaries and nice, its good to see the word getting out about the situation on our ummah and more ppl need to wake up and get on with doing their part inshaAllah.. May Allah(SWT) keep us as muslims and bless us with His(SWT) mercy aameen.:sl:

[guyabano]

turkey is a strong and prospering country...if u like it or not...turkey will or will not be accepted into the eu..if u like it or not...and turkey will or will not become superpower..if u like it or not...

???????? Cannot understand this one? Will...will not, so what now ?

stop trying to find tacky ways of validating ur views and opinions...

Ermmm, this is a forum.

Definition of forum:

An Internet forum is a web application for holding discussions and posting user generated content. Internet forums are also commonly referred to as web forums, message boards, discussion boards, (electronic) discussion groups, discussion forums, bulletin boards, fora (the Latin plural) or simply forums. The terms "forum" and "board" may refer to the entire community or to a specific sub-forum dealing with a distinct topic. Messages within these sub-forums are then displayed either in chronological order or as threaded discussions.

So it means, I can express my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, so please proove I'm wrong, but don't tell me what I have to say and what not !
Up to now, you just tell me 'my grandpa told me', but nothing which can strenghten your statements.

[guyabano]

:sl: akhee Musulmaan, mashaAllah, nice documentaries and nice, its good to see the word getting out about the situation on our ummah and more ppl need to wake up and get on with doing their part inshaAllah.. May Allah(SWT) keep us as muslims and bless us with His(SWT) mercy aameen.:sl:

And for you , I have this one:

You're just trolling around and commenting offtopic in nearby every thread.

Please contribute usefully to the threads, even you have a different opinion, but at least, related to the topic.

[- Qatada -]

guyabano, i don't think that's respectful at all. It's mentioned in your earlier post that forums are created so people can express their opinions. So if brother haidar_abbas wants to express his opinions, i don't think there's anything wrong with that. :)




Regards.

[wilberhum]

guyabano, i don't think that's respectful at all. It's mentioned in your earlier post that forums are created so people can express their opinions. So if brother haidar_abbas wants to express his opinions, i don't think there's anything wrong with that. :)

Regards.

Guyabano, I don't think that's respectful at all, either. :uuh:
But then haidar_abbas only shows contempt. :Evil:

[guyabano]

guyabano, i don't think that's respectful at all. It's mentioned in your earlier post that forums are created so people can express their opinions. So if brother haidar_abbas wants to express his opinions, i don't think there's anything wrong with that. :)




Regards.

Sure, Sir, but at least, he should contribute to the topic. IMHO, he's just trolling through all the threads, if you might have a closer look

[- Qatada -]

Sure, Sir, but at least, he should contribute to the topic. IMHO, he's just trolling through all the threads, if you might have a closer look

I've PM'd him :) insha Allah (God willing) things will calm down now.

[north_malaysian]

Hey, Turkey!! Join Asia!!!! $$$$$$$$$ :coolious::coolious::coolious::coolious::coolious:

[KAding]

Hey, Turkey!! Join Asia!!!! $$$$$$$$$ :coolious::coolious::coolious::coolious::coolious:

Asia is good! But that part of Asia is not doing so good. If I were Turkey and look at my Asian neighbors like Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Iran, I wouldn't want to become part of that mess at all!

Just my opinion of course ;). So: Hey Turkey! Join Europe!!!!! <--- Five exclamation marks, so that means I win!

[guyabano]

nope, join Asia, but learn to eat with Chopsticks ! It might be useful

[north_malaysian]

Asia is good! But that part of Asia is not doing so good. If I were Turkey and look at my Asian neighbors like Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Iran, I wouldn't want to become part of that mess at all!

Just my opinion of course ;). So: Hey Turkey! Join Europe!!!!! <--- Five exclamation marks, so that means I win!

No, Turkey! Join Asia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Now I win!)

Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia, Serbia and Albania are welcomed too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:okay:

We also would welcome Egypt too (as Sinai is part of Asia)

[north_malaysian]

nope, join Asia, but learn to eat with Chopsticks ! It might be useful

Asians eat with chopsticks, fingers, spoons, forks etc..... we're diversed and tolerant (when it comes to FOOD)

But personally, chopsticks (the bamboo ones) make a yummy tools to eat your noodles....

If Turkey join Asia, we would export our instant noodles (Halal ones) in billions to Turkey, with 90% discount on price!!!!!:playing:

[guyabano]

Asians eat with chopsticks, fingers, spoons, forks etc..... we're diversed and tolerant (when it comes to FOOD)

But personally, chopsticks (the bamboo ones) make a yummy tools to eat your noodles....

If Turkey join Asia, we would export our instant noodles (Halal ones) in billions to Turkey, with 90% discount on price!!!!!:playing:

yes, but not all asian country have chopsticks, Philippines f.example. My wife is a filipina.

[Bittersteel]

the only part of Turkey in continental Europe is the one half of Istanbul.

[Darkseid]

crude and sarcastic?? is that what you get from my reply? i was really sincere with my words but never mind. i dont think you will understand this one too. lets forget about it. i'm not here to hassle..

I'm sorry but the way you had spoken was identical to what had expected from someone that was being sarcastic. Especially when you wrote to learn, learn, and practice or something like that.

[abdil han]

the only part of Turkey in continental Europe is the one half of Istanbul.

actually its little bigger than half of istanbul,3% of lands of Turkiye is in europe,including Edirne,Kırklareli,Tekirdağ n Istanbul,but 10 million people lives in these cities bro,so its more important than 3%...

wassalam

[KAding]

the only part of Turkey in continental Europe is the one half of Istanbul.

Pfft. Cyprus is in Europe, so is much of the Caucasus. And so is Greece. Then why not Turkey?

Besides, lets be honest here. Why is Europe even a continent? It doesn't deserve to be one. It's really just part of Asia. The only reason its a continent is because the Europeans were imperialists and forced this 'Europe' entity on the rest of the world. :rant:

[Bittersteel]

alright alright I get it.

[north_malaysian]

yes, but not all asian country have chopsticks, Philippines f.example. My wife is a filipina.

Filipinos use spoons, so do many urban Malaysians, Thais and Indonesians.

I rarely eat rice with fingers, I prefer using spoon and fork as I love lots of soup/curry on my rice.. :giggling:

But when I'm in rural areas... I use my fingers as I dont want to offend my hosts.

[north_malaysian]

Pfft. Cyprus is in Europe, so is much of the Caucasus. And so is Greece. Then why not Turkey?

Besides, lets be honest here. Why is Europe even a continent? It doesn't deserve to be one. It's really just part of Asia. The only reason its a continent is because the Europeans were imperialists and forced this 'Europe' entity on the rest of the world. :rant:

countries like Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia is more east than Turkey... but do they considered themselves part of Asia continent?:confused:

Russia itself is divided into 2, and most of its land is in Asia.

Israel is on Asia continent... but Asia doesnt accept Israel as an Asiatic country (they play football under Europe right?)

[yigiter187]

Hey, Turkey!! Join Asia!!!! $$$$$$$$$ :coolious::coolious::coolious::coolious::coolious:

okay we are coming to asia--our motherland---we belong to asia not corrupted europe...

[KAding]

okay we are coming to asia--our motherland---we belong to asia not corrupted europe...

You are going to Asia? Not according to the party you just elected though:

http://euronews.net/index.php?page=i...e=434243&lng=1
Erdogan promises to pursue EU membership

The victorious party leader, Tayyip Erdogan appeared on the balcony of the AK party headquarters in Ankara to a rapturous reception. Flanked by his right hand man, the foreign minister Abdullah Gul, and various other political dignitaries, he thanked the crowd for delivering such a resounding victory. He told the party faithful that democratic reforms and economic development will continue. And he said that he will continue to strive to get EU membership for Turkey.

AK Parti Official Web Site
Party Program
VI. FOREIGN POLICY

&#183; Turkey has been in close relation with Europe both geographically and historically. For this reason, relations with European nations shall continue to be at the top of the list in Turkey's foreign policy agenda.

&#183; Turkey shall rapidly fulfill its promises in its relations with the European Union and the conditions, which the union demands of other candidate nations as well. Thus, it shall prevent the occupation of the agenda with artificial problems.

&#183; Parallel to the contributions made by Turkey inside NATO until the present day, efforts shall be maintained for Turkey to take the place it deserves within the new European Security and Defense Concept created within the framework of the new European defense strategy.

[KAding]

Double post....

[yigiter187]

You are going to Asia? Not according to the party you just elected though:

ı didnt vote for ak party.....
40%of turks dont want eu...and remaininng 60% dont know why they want eu....turkish culture is completely different from europe..so it is meaningless to strive for membership to eu....ıf we complete all of criteria they will not accept us because we are muslims..

[*babk*]

I dont understand why europen people dont want Turkey as a member of Europen union. What is the problem with us?

[KAding]

I dont understand why europen people dont want Turkey as a member of Europen union. What is the problem with us?

Some people do, some people don't.

From July 2005 EU-wide poll:

The Eurobarometer survey shows that 52% of EU citizens are against Turkey joining the EU. Citizens from the new member states are more in favour of Turkey joining (48% in favour) than the EU-15 (32% in favour).

The 'why' depends on the person you ask. Some are afraid it will undermine the Christian background of Europe. Other are fearful of a massive influx of Turks who want to work in Western Europe. Some also believe Turkey is still too poor. Others think it simply isn't in Europe geographically. Then there is a group who believe Turkey is not democratic enough, with such a big influence of the army in politics and odd laws that make it a crime to criticize the state. And then there are those who are afraid of political Islam. Some also think letting Turkey join would be destabilizing, since Turkey would be the biggest country (population wise) of the EU. Others are against enlargement of the EU , whatever the country. Many of those against Turkey joining will cite a combination of these elements as a reason to be against.

[north_malaysian]

"Only 27 percent of Turks had a favorable view of the EU, down from 58 percent only three years ago. At the same time, the proportion with an unfavorable opinion increased from 35 percent to 58 percent."

source: http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/a...?enewsid=76984

[Darkseid]

Pfft. Cyprus is in Europe, so is much of the Caucasus. And so is Greece. Then why not Turkey?

Besides, lets be honest here. Why is Europe even a continent? It doesn't deserve to be one. It's really just part of Asia. The only reason its a continent is because the Europeans were imperialists and forced this 'Europe' entity on the rest of the world. :rant:

Greece is part of the Balkan peninsula that runs along with Bulgaria and several small countries. It has also been historically known as a part of Europe for ages.

the Caucasus is considered a part of Europe due to the historic culture of the Caucasus being relative to Europe.

Cyprus is mostly Greek and has been historically known as the crossroads into Asia.

And you are right, Europe is a subcontinent like Southern Asia (Greater India + Iran) and Western Asia (The Middle-East)

However, it most correctly Eurasia to be the continent that encompasses Europe and Asia.

BTW, aren't you being a tad racist and egocentric? Asia, Europe, and Africa are names that came from Goddesses (particularly Roman/Greek Goddesses). Like for instance, Europe was named after the Goddess Europa. So the names aren't really relavent.

But Eurasia nonetheless is the identity of the union of land between Europe and Asia.

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: less attaturk and MORE ISLAM inshaAllah :sl:

[yigiter187]

:sl: less attaturk and MORE ISLAM inshaAllah :sl:

it is a bitter reality, unfortunately....

[The_Prince]

it is a bitter reality, unfortunately....

what? bitter reality that attaruk's ways and teachings are falling and Islam is rising? or did u mean the other way round

[north_malaysian]

However, it most correctly Eurasia to be the continent that encompasses Europe and Asia.

Hey... Africa is connected to Asia too via Sinai Peninsula ... so we should call it Eurasiafrica!!!

[yigiter187]

what? bitter reality that attaruk's ways and teachings are falling and Islam is rising? or did u mean the other way round

evereyone thinks that ıf you love atatürk it means you dont love islam...and if you love islam it means you dont love ataürk...but this thought isnt true...although ataturk did utmost effort to wipe out kuffars from anatolia from turkey,he also gave so much harm to islam...:(

[sevgi]

evereyone thinks that ıf you love atatürk it means you dont love islam...and if you love islam it means you dont love ataürk...but this thought isnt true...although ataturk did utmost effort to wipe out kuffars from anatolia from turkey,he also gave so much harm to islam...:(

exactly...

Ataturk was a thread to the healthy running of islam in turkey...perhaps he still is, regardless of him being dead...

but the thing is, he 'westernised' turkey in such a way that, it did not lose 'too' much, so to speak...the majority religion is still islam.

now turkey is the only majorly islamic and practising country which actually has a shot at getting out there are continuing our prophet (pbuh)'s work of dawah and preeching--in as much civility as possible--not only preeching, but excelling in the modern western 'dominant' world, economically, socially, politically, academically...
thus it is inevitable for turkey to lose a bit of its islamic values along the way...but insallah Allah will judge them on intentions...coz thats what really matters in the eyes of Allah the all merciful.

[north_malaysian]

Are there lots of Da'wa activities in Turkey?

Are there Islamic tv and radio channels in Turkey?

[Skywalker]

Those are good questions n_m, you can usually tell a lot about the level of Islam in a country by what kind of TV shows and radio stations they have.

What are they like in Turkey?

[north_malaysian]

Those are good questions n_m, you can usually tell a lot about the level of Islam in a country by what kind of TV shows and radio stations they have.

Is it? Whoa...

We Malaysians only have 1 Islamic radio station out of 53 radio stations...

And no Islamic tv at all....

So what's the level of Islam in Malaysia.......... Bad I think...:exhausted

[yigiter187]

Are there lots of Da'wa activities in Turkey?

Are there Islamic tv and radio channels in Turkey?

of coyrse there are lots of islamic radios tvs ın turkey..also you can see turkish schools all around the world for islamic purposes..

[justahumane]

what about islamic makkah of 650?

please research on what a true islamic state is, then let me know if you mind it :)

I m doing that in whatever time I can spare. There are few questions for U if U can obilige. My dear brother.

1. Isnt it unjust that in an Islamic state muslims are free to preach and propogate their religion among non muslims but death sentence for non muslims if they dare to do so?

2. Is it true that in an Islamic state a muslim is not entitled for death penalty for murdering a non muslim? He can only be punished to the extent of paying the blood money to the family of victim?

Thanks.

[Darkseid]

Is it? Whoa...

We Malaysians only have 1 Islamic radio station out of 53 radio stations...

And no Islamic tv at all....

So what's the level of Islam in Malaysia.......... Bad I think...:exhausted

It is better to be secular in promoting Islam than to be Islamic. Think of Iran for just a second. Now do you see what I mean?

[Skywalker]

1. Isnt it unjust that in an Islamic state muslims are free to preach and propogate their religion among non muslims but death sentence for non muslims if they dare to do so?

It's not unjust in any way. Since Islam is more than a religion, but a way of life, it would be exactly like going around saying that the foundations that the entire country is built on are false, that everyone is living a lie -- not very healthy for a society, wouldn't you say? There's no reason that the people can't go out of the country and "propagate" elsewhere.

2. Is it true that in an Islamic state a muslim is not entitled for death penalty for murdering a non muslim? He can only be punished to the extent of paying the blood money to the family of victim?

Murder is murder. Blood money is only paid if the family of the victim agrees to it. Otherwise, the murderer is executed.

So what's the level of Islam in Malaysia.......... Bad I think...

I don't think it's that bad, bro. It's not much better here in Egypt, we have a lot of craziness on TV, but at the same time we have some religious programs. On regular TV there's very little religious stuff, just government oriented balogne, but on the satellite channels, there's a LOT of religious programs, but at the same time there's a lot of the opposite.

What I feel is missing from Islamic countries is regular TV shows with stories and stuff, but ones that teach Islamic morals and are decent enough to be watched safely by Muslim families. I've not seen a lot of that at all -- almost none. Everything religious seems to be "in-your-face" kind of stuff.

[north_malaysian]

I don't think it's that bad, bro. It's not much better here in Egypt, we have a lot of craziness on TV,

and managed to export those craziness to Malaysia, last week Nancy Ajram was here.... Myriam Fares and Heyfa Wehbe are next... Amr Diab is well-known.....we even managed to have our own Malaysian-made pop Arabic singer like Betty Banafe'. Plus the bellydancers are everywhere...

On regular TV there's very little religious stuff, just government oriented balogne, but on the satellite channels, there's a LOT of religious programs, but at the same time there's a lot of the opposite.

Well.... the only sattelite channels we could watch is via Astro... and there is no Islamic channels offered.... having a non-Astro sattelite dish is ILLEGAL.

[Bittersteel]

1. Isnt it unjust that in an Islamic state muslims are free to preach and propogate their religion among non muslims but death sentence for non muslims if they dare to do so?

2. Is it true that in an Islamic state a muslim is not entitled for death penalty for murdering a non muslim? He can only be punished to the extent of paying the blood money to the family of victim?

no.1 is probably true,but no compulsion or any type of blackmailing should be allowed.I however hate propagation and evangelism of any religion.

no.2 most probably not according to the Sharia but something that usually happens in Muslim nations.

[abdil han]

1. Isnt it unjust that in an Islamic state muslims are free to preach and propogate their religion among non muslims but death sentence for non muslims if they dare to do so?

Thanks.

Hi bro,
if u meant the murdered bible print house labours in Turkiye a couple months ago,its still not for sure that they ve been killed only for propogating Christianity,,,there may be some more reasons,,,

peace all!

[mine]

Are there lots of Da'wa activities in Turkey?

Are there Islamic tv and radio channels in Turkey?

there are indeed lots of radio and tv channels that use their resources for the spread of islam and for the benefit of people who are interested to learn about it. i can surely give their names if I am allowed to this in here. but i feel very contended that the media makes every endeavour to promote Islam. they have highly educative and enlightening programmes. mass media is the most perfect medium to reach many people from various levels. i think evangelists in usa do the same thing as in turkey for islam. both are very effective in their efforts i guess..

[*babk*]

there are indeed lots of radio and tv channels that use their resources for the spread of islam and for the benefit of people who are interested to learn about it. i can surely give their names if I am allowed to this in here. but i feel very contended that the media makes every endeavour to promote Islam. they have highly educative and enlightening programmes. mass media is the most perfect medium to reach many people from various levels. i think evangelists in usa do the same thing as in turkey for islam. both are very effective in their efforts i guess..

Yes you are right.There are lots of islamic tv channels. But unfortunatly a big number of media tools are belonged to left sided people and they display an anti islamic manner in their programmes. And I think this situation cause a misconception among foreign people about our life style

[barney]

Hi bro,
if u meant the murdered bible print house labours in Turkiye a couple months ago,its still not for sure that they ve been killed only for propogating Christianity,,,there may be some more reasons,,,

peace all!

Yeah, i think they might have been peadophiles as well, and thats why they were murdered. Their job of bible print house labourers in a Muslim country is totally coincidental.

[mine]

Yes you are right.There are lots of islamic tv channels. But unfortunatly a big number of media tools are belonged to left sided people and they display an anti islamic manner in their programmes. And I think this situation cause a misconception among foreign people about our life style

:sl:
yes but people need guidance thus they tend to follow those channels that will serve this aim. as for the anti islamic attitudes of other media tools, they resent many people by disrespecting their faith and beliefs . more and more people quit watching them as a form of protest. for example my dad delete those channel from RC or block them ;D

peace

[mine]

:sl:
as for the anti islamic attitudes of other media tools, they resent many people by disrespecting their faith and beliefs .

peace

i mean they offend so people are resented :D

[north_malaysian]

Yes you are right.There are lots of islamic tv channels. But unfortunatly a big number of media tools are belonged to left sided people and they display an anti islamic manner in their programmes. And I think this situation cause a misconception among foreign people about our life style

at least you're MORE LUCKY than us.... we Malaysians have not a single tv channel dedicated for Islam... and religious programmes are mostly on air during maghrib time, when all the religious people go to the mosques...

Are mosques in Turkey allowed to teach Hudud laws to the public?

[abdil han]

Are mosques in Turkey allowed to teach Hudud laws to the public?

salam bro,

actually its little complicated,
imams,in mosques, teach these kind of laws of islam n what are the punishments but the country is being ruled by secular/laic laws...

take care

wassalam

[*babk*]

salam bro,

actually its little complicated,
imams,in mosques, teach these kind of laws of islam n what are the punishments but the country is being ruled by secular/laic laws...

take care

wassalam

yes our country is being ruled by secular laws. but we live in accordance with islamic rules. So secular regime doesn't affect us so much

[yigiter187]

yes our country is being ruled by secular laws. but we live in accordance with islamic rules. So secular regime doesn't affect us so much

do u think so?

then why my sister cant attend high unis just for she wears hijab....?

she takes the highest grades but cnnot go a üni...secularism is everiwer in turkey..

[Chechnya]

do u think so?

then why my sister cant attend high unis just for she wears hijab....?

she takes the highest grades but cnnot go a üni...secularism is everiwer in turkey..

thats really sad, bro - why are turks so against islam?

my friend went on holdiay to visit turkey - he returned after 2 days coz he couldnt handle what he saw from the "muslims" there :offended:

[yigiter187]

thats really sad, bro - why are turks so against islam?

my friend went on holdiay to visit turkey - he returned after 2 days coz he couldnt handle what he saw from the "muslims" there :offended:

as i said,secularism is everywhere in turkey...if you use hijab you are old-headed but if you wander naked you are modern...

[yigiter187]

thats really sad, bro - why are turks so against islam?

my friend went on holdiay to visit turkey - he returned after 2 days coz he couldnt handle what he saw from the "muslims" there :offended:

the way we understand islam and secularism is really different..

[ISLAMASWEENEY]

Turkey Is A Islamic Country The World Needs To Accept This.

[yigiter187]

Turkey Is A Islamic Country The World Needs To Accept This.

only you think so..

[*babk*]

do u think so?

then why my sister cant attend high unis just for she wears hijab....?

she takes the highest grades but cnnot go a üni...secularism is everiwer in turkey..

yes you are right. But I said "doesnt affect so much. Like your sister I cant attend high school with my scarf. But I think this situation isn't wholly related with secularizm. İt is because of some group of people who hate islam and dont want muslim people around themselves. And I hope this injustice will be ended soon

[yigiter187]

yes you are right. But I said "doesnt affect so much. Like your sister I cant attend high school with my scarf. But I think this situation isn't wholly related with secularizm. İt is because of some group of people who hate islam and dont want muslim people around themselves. And I hope this injustice will be ended soon

it is a long-term hope...perhaps v cant see it...many of the turkish states were secular in history..but turkey is country of weirds..

[*babk*]

I am not desperate like you. Let's pray for this

[abdil han]

Turkey Is A Islamic Country The World Needs To Accept This.

salam all,

1)turkiye is nt an islamic country,turkiye is a muslim country,,nt the same thng u understood...

2)dear chechen bro,pls dont generalize all the people here,we r a big country,75 million people lives here n of course there would be many bad people in everythng,but also there r many good people in here...

3)about the hijab problem;im very hopefull that its gonna be ok soon inshaAllah...and i pray to see it...amin...

salam aleykum

[yigiter187]

salam all,

1)turkiye is nt an islamic country,turkiye is a muslim country,,nt the same thng u understood...

2)dear chechen bro,pls dont generalize all the people here,we r a big country,75 million people lives here n of course there would be many bad people in everythng,but also there r many good people in here...

3)about the hijab problem;im very hopefull that its gonna be ok soon inshaAllah...and i pray to see it...amin...

salam aleykum

bt u shuldnt forget that minority bads govern us..no matter what muslims want, they launch the rules they want

[ISLAMASWEENEY]

Whatever Turkey Is The World Needs To Respect It.

[snakelegs]

i love secularism!
but turkey's brand of it seems more like a militant religion in its own right than what i understand as secularism.

[ISLAMASWEENEY]

Yes I Love Turkeys Powerful Military America Wont Invade Turkey Next Thats For Sure.

[snakelegs]

if the turks invade northern iraq, i am not sure what will happen.

[ISLAMASWEENEY]

I Dont Know But Turkey Need To Sort Out The Pkk I Went On Holiday When They Bombed Southern Turkey That Was Sick Iam Lucky To Be Alive.

[abdil han]

bt u shuldnt forget that minority bads govern us..no matter what muslims want, they launch the rules they want

salam bro,,
you are right but till when this minority will rule us?? of course n inshaAllah the real owners of this country will recapture of it ....

vassalam

[north_malaysian]

imams,in mosques, teach these kind of laws of islam n what are the punishments

at least you can learn about Hudud in Turkish mosques.... not in Malaysian mosques.:exhausted

[yigiter187]

Yes I Love Turkeys Powerful Military America Wont Invade Turkey Next Thats For Sure.

there is no power in world who can invade turkey...
if you dont believe us look,search gallipoli and canakkale wars...our weapons were our bodies...anzacs,italians,french,greeks,indians,rus sians,english,armenaians were all together against turkey but no victory occured for them....because turks have a really deep faith...love turkey from the deepest part of their hearts.....

[yigiter187]

if the turks invade northern iraq, i am not sure what will happen.

we wont invade ıraq,we only want to put an end to terrörist PKKİ SUPPORTED BY MANY COUNTRİES..(USA,GREECE ETC..)

[north_malaysian]

we wont invade ıraq,we only want to put an end to terrörist PKKİ SUPPORTED BY MANY COUNTRİES..(USA,GREECE ETC..)

Are those PKK members ... muslims?

[yigiter187]

do u mean what? sorry

[shev]

Are those PKK members ... muslims?

unfortunetly most of them yes..... why did u ask it for??

[yigiter187]

Zoroaster lovers 34&#37;
jesus lovers 34%
THE RELİGİON OF MANİ 11%
AND LOVERS OF MOHAMMED 10%

THİS İS WHAT PKK TERR&#214;RİST BELİEVE..

[snakelegs]

we wont invade ıraq,we only want to put an end to terrörist PKKİ SUPPORTED BY MANY COUNTRİES..(USA,GREECE ETC..)

i am too ignorant on this to have an opinion. i only know that turkey has been threatening an invasion of northern iraq.

just came across this:


PKK warns Iraq, Turkey against crackdown
By Agence France Presse (AFP)
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....ticle_id=84509
Tuesday, August 14, 2007


IRBIL, Iraq: The Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) on Monday warned Iraq and Turkey against launching any crackdown on the separatist movement after both countries agreed to end its safe haven on the frontier. "The Iraqi government should not interfere in the conflict between us and Turkey," spokesman Abdel-Rahman Chadarchi told AFP by telephone from the Qandil Mountains on the Iraq-Iran border. "If they plan to strike at the PKK politically or militarily, Iraq and Turkey will pay the price and the crises in Iraq and Turkey will deepen," he added without elaborating. Chadarchi denied that his party received military aid from either Iraqi Kurds or the US. On August 7 Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki and Turkish Premier Recep Tayyip Erdogan signed a document of cooperation to end the safe haven that separatist Turkish Kurd rebels enjoy in Kurdish-run northern Iraq. "We said [in the memorandum of understanding] that we will cooperate against terrorist organizations, notably the PKK," Maliki said in Ankara. Turkey has threatened cross-border strikes at PKK bases in neighboring northern Iraq if Baghdad and Washington fail to curb the rebels. - AFP

[yigiter187]

is there a country called kurdistan? no of course
so no need to read ur post..

[snakelegs]

ok. as i said - i am too uninformed to have an opinion....
:peace:

[KAding]

Turkey's Gul vows secular agenda
Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul has pledged to protect and strengthen the country's secular principles if he succeeds in a fresh presidential bid.

The former Islamist sparked huge controversy and protests in a failed bid for the post earlier this year.

Critics, including the army, feared an erosion of secular values despite Mr Gul's reassurances to the contrary.

Mr Gul's AK Party dominates the Turkish parliament, which chooses the president in a run of votes starting on Monday.

"Protection of secularism is one of my basic principles," Mr Gul told a news conference on Tuesday after submitting his application to parliament.

"Nobody should worry about this."

Mr Gul said Turkey was a "democratic, secular and social state based on the rule of law", and he vowed to protect and strengthen these principles as his first priority.

The BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Istanbul says Mr Gul's comments were a clear attempt to reassure those who see him as a threat to the system.

Mr Gul's previous presidential bid triggered protests in May because of his Islamist roots.

Opponents dislike the fact that his wife wears the Muslim headscarf, which is banned in state institutions.

The failure of the bid led to an early general election, in which Mr Gul's party won a convincing victory.

Parliamentary support

Mr Gul has been meeting opposition party leaders in an attempt to gather support for his fresh bid.

One of the main opposition parties, the MHP, has previously said it would not boycott the latest election, a move likely to ensure a quorum of two-thirds of MPs.

Mr Gul's previous bid for the presidency failed because opposition parties boycotted the two votes in April and May.

In the first and second round of voting a candidate must win a two-thirds majority to be elected - 367 votes out of the total of 550 deputies.

The AKP does not have 367 deputies sitting in parliament.

But in the third and fourth round only an absolute majority of 276 is required.

The governing party has 341 MPs, so the AKP's candidate would be highly likely to win any contest in a third or fourth round.

The largest opposition party, the secular centre-left Republican People's Party (CHP), has stated its continued opposition to Mr Gul's candidacy.

"Gul is a conscious member of an ideological circle," CHP leader Deniz Baykal told CNN Turk television.

"Turkey would become a country in which the political balances were changing very fast, in which the Middle East identity would become more pronounced."

The job of president is largely ceremonial, but the incumbent has the power to veto legislative bills and government appointments.

The current president, Ahmet Necdet Sezer, often frustrated the government by blocking its initiatives.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...pe/6946269.stm

Published: 2007/08/14 15:04:24 GMT

© BBC MMVII

So. Is he lying in an attempt to get elected? Or does he believe in a secular Turkey, at least politically? I'd say the latter, though he no doubt wants to tame some of the extreme-secularist laws.

[yigiter187]

of course he is not lying.it may be a strategy to get votes from all parts of parliement...eventual aim is of coursa to abolish haijab ban,and make secularism less effective in turkey..

[*babk*]

Abdullah G&#252;l is a clever politician. He will do his best not to take a big reaction while he is trying to abolish the bans which humiliate muslim people.

[snakelegs]

of course he is not lying.it may be a strategy to get votes from all parts of parliement...eventual aim is of coursa to abolish haijab ban,and make secularism less effective in turkey..

i think the hijab ban should be abolished. forbidding women to wear hijab in a muslim country has nothing to do with any rational version of secularism and is absurd.
again, turkey's version of secularism is almost a religion in itself.
i think anyone who believes in human rights would have to agree that women should be free to wear hijab.

[yigiter187]

i think the hijab ban should be abolished. forbidding women to wear hijab in a muslim country has nothing to do with any rational version of secularism and is absurd.
again, turkey's version of secularism is almost a religion in itself.
i think anyone who believes in human rights would have to agree that women should be free to wear hijab.

ye really u r right....secularist regard secularism as a religion alternative for islam...if u r muslim u cannat be a secular....samely if you r a secular you cannot be a muslim..but it is inshallah in a near future that the minority banners of hijab in high deps of state will all be fired ,kicked from this beutiful country..

[Amadeus85]

I think that all muslims in every muslim country should decide on their own, in which kind of state they want to live. If all muslims would choose living in sharia law, well, honestly i wouldnt care. Maybe i would be even happy. Muslims may live under most sharp laws on the whole world if they really want it. I just dont care because im not going to live in muslim country. If they dislike after some years, well, at least they wouldnt blame it on West.

[north_malaysian]

unfortunetly most of them yes..... why did u ask it for??

just curious...

[north_malaysian]

Zoroaster lovers 34%
jesus lovers 34%
THE RELİGİON OF MANİ 11%
AND LOVERS OF MOHAMMED 10%

THİS İS WHAT PKK TERRÖRİST BELİEVE..

Huhh?

[bekirsaid]

i am a Turkish, and i dont like the political movements in Turkey. But mosques are full of people, and a lot of mosques everywhere.....
I hope muslims will win as early as possible.....

[yigiter187]

Huhh?

what huh?
this info was broadcasted by a channel of pkk...

only 10% of them are muslims or they think they are muslims..

[Muezzin]

Pardon me folks, but wasn't this thread about Turkey rather than Iraq? :p :)

Off-topic post deletion in progress...

[bekirsaid]

gul is not a great leader, but i may accept, so i've to....

[bekirsaid]

gul is not a great leader, but i may accept, so i've to....
because he is selected now....

[abdil han]

gul is not a great leader, but i may accept, so i've to....
because he is selected now....

salam,
i think Gül is better than others,
He is tolarent,kind,calm,tries to keep logic,,and still young...

for my opinion,very old people must nt be in ruling countries,
be coz they did everythng they could n they have no passion anymore,,
like an old soccer player:)

wassalam

[aadil77]

:sl:

You're right Gul is better than the others, everyone should pray that he comes to power and turns this land of evil acts back into an islamic state, its a muslim country and yet woman are kicked out of schools and unviersitys for wearing hijaab, people drink freely on the streets and still claim they are muslim, these 'muslims' need to get rid of their freestyle thinking and get their beleifs straight.

People don't mind turkish people being muslim but if they practise their beliefs, they won't be allowed to join the eu!

[abdil han]

:sl:

You're right Gul is better than the others, everyone should pray that he comes to power and turns this land of evil acts back into an islamic state, its a muslim country and yet woman are kicked out of schools and unviersitys for wearing hijaab, people drink freely on the streets and still claim they are muslim, these 'muslims' need to get rid of their freestyle thinking and get their beleifs straight.

People don't mind turkish people being muslim but if they practise their beliefs, they won't be allowed to join the eu!

salam aleykum bro,
i agree with you but not all the things u wrote,
please dont think that all the people drink alcohol or dont pray,or dont care about haram/halal...there are millions of people here in my country who tries to live as islam asks...

especially turks who lives in some other countries ,dont practice islam generally,,unfortunately...

take care bro,,
wassalam

[sevgi]

:sl:

You're right Gul is better than the others, everyone should pray that he comes to power and turns this land of evil acts back into an islamic state, its a muslim country and yet woman are kicked out of schools and unviersitys for wearing hijaab, people drink freely on the streets and still claim they are muslim, these 'muslims' need to get rid of their freestyle thinking and get their beleifs straight.

People don't mind turkish people being muslim but if they practise their beliefs, they won't be allowed to join the eu!

salams..

i think this thread has made it quite clear that no, turkey is not filled with all the non islamic acts it appears to be overriden with.so i will not bother to lecture on that....

you state that you prefer Gul to the others due to his will to turn turkey or 'land of evil acts' into an islamic state...

my friend...just because Gul is capable (in ur opinion) of turning turkey into an islamic state, it does not mean that it is his will to do so...i think youve skipped the point. the whole idea is that he is not trying to create an islamic state...thats not what he wants for turkey...noone wants that for turkey, especially turks.you can secure an islamic democracy with no need for the reinstitution of a calipahate.

he was the foreign affairs minister for years...what you imply with your idea of islamic state building is an isolationaist approach...turkey doesnt want that.turkey wants to prosper and move further into the western world, intact to its islamic identity.

we have established that Gul is "tolarent,kind,calm,tries to keep logic,,and still young..."-- again...who cares...so is my dad...

can we please remember that we are trying to debate whether or not Gul is a favourable leader for a very important country and nation...he is a rational thinker, he is fluent in english, he is well educated, he is a competent leader, he is a strategic and systematic practicioner of foreign law and order...he has a persuasive and mature speech pattern, he is ideologically set and opinionated, yet not proud enough to run down other peoples ideas...

thats what counts...not the fact that he is kind and looks good on tv.

about turks practicing their religion and thus not being able to enter the EU...my friend...you need to realise that the EU is not a toy or game. they are serious in what they do and what they want and if they beieve that they can benefit from turkey, theyw ill allow them to join regardless of the practices within...i agree to a certain extent with what u are tryin to say...

"especially turks who lives in some other countries ,dont practice islam generally,,unfortunately..."----Brother Abdilhan...hakkini helal et ama, i beg to differ...i understand that the general understanding in Turkey is that the turks in germany and europe and australia etc lose their identity...but in terms of practicing islam...they are as willing to prcatice as possible under the circimstances of the place in which they live....the ones which forget...it is barely their fault in most cases.

turks in turkey have the freedom to practice and enjoy their religion and hear the ezan five times a day etc...except secular laws such as the hijab, but in other countries, lets not forget that they are never reminded of their religion. never. there is no way of thinking about your religion.they are not priveleged with the facilities that the turks in turkey are...i know turks in other countries who need to pray in toilets and rubbish dumps...i know some who forget it was prayer time...i know some who have never probably seen anyone wearing a hijab in their lives...so lets not be unfair please.

i think that is all i wanted to say...sometimes we need to get over ourselves and the fact that we very patriotic about being turk and try and actually show and justify it in what we say...

that is all.
w/s.

[north_malaysian]

especially turks who lives in some other countries ,dont practice islam generally,,unfortunately...

From my observations the Turks in Malaysia are quite religious..

[abdil han]

salam aleykum,

sister sumeyye,i didnt wanna say that all the turks ,in abroad ,dont practise islam,,
especially in europe n us,many turks live like europeans,they go to pubs,discos,dating,etc... of course there must be many turks who wanna live as a true muslim,,,and i understand how hard their situation is,,may Allah help them inşaAllah,,,

but unfortunately i met many people from england,france,germany or Us,they say so...for them ,the main reason of Ottoman's collapsing was to not to be a european nation,and now they r trying to live like a european and this will brings many bad habits with itself,,,

i hope that they understand beauty of islam soon...inşaAllah,,amin...

dear malay bro;
we turks are mostly religious,but since 1920s many thngs ve been changed n some people tried to make us far from our blessed religion,and they achieved this somehow by changing the letters into latin,abolishing caliphate,law system,closing all medreses n religious schools and so on...
but they couldnt make us forget about our past,and we are awakening again,
especially among the youth,islam is uprising again alhamdulillah,,,

i dont expect that turkiye will return into an islamic state again,but at least we ll be a developed,free,tolarent muslim country again...
(inshaAllah)

assalamu aleykum all

[aadil77]

Yes I agree with abdil han, sorry ,but just seeing so many of our turkish muslim brothers and sisters behaving in this way sometimes justs creates an overall bad image of them, but yes there must be many turkish muslims who are not like this.

[guyabano]

This is a nice video about this topic:

Media Tags are no longer supported

[yigiter187]

This is a nice video about this topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRy_F08kMQM

ı hata nur serter,one of the great kuffars in turkey-the assitant dean of istanbul üni-....officially she is a muslim,but in real she does utmost effort to hinder islamic acts..

secularism is very different in turkey...islam n secularism are thought to be alternatives to each other...this is what problesm root from..

[syilla]

:salamext:

Any comment/news on the new president? The first lady wears traditional hijab right...but some people want to change her to wear modern hijab...thats what i heard...lol

[sevgi]

Hurray! An Islamic government at last!

i think u missed the point.

[yigiter187]

Hurray! An Islamic government at last!

lets not say "islamic govn" but we can say "the most islamic govn ever come to turkey.."

[north_malaysian]

lets not say "islamic govn" but we can say "the most islamic govn ever come to turkey.."

or a government lead by religious people to give some freedom for the Turks to show their religiousness and obedience to God.

[snakelegs]

secularism is very different in turkey...islam n secularism are thought to be alternatives to each other...this is what problesm root from..

i think this is very true and a point often missed.