Does the Bible need a defense?

Woodrow said:

this question was asked in another thread. At first it did not appear to generate much interest. However, now it does seem the interest is there. so to keep the other thread from straying off topic the thread is now approved.

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Bruce Manning Metzger (born 1914) is a professor emeritus at Princeton Theological Seminary and Bible editor who serves on the board of the American Bible Society. He is a scholar of Greek, New Testament and Old Testament Bible, and has written prolifically on these subjects.

Metzger has edited and provided commentary for many Bible translations and has written dozens of books. He was a contributor to the Apocrypha of the Revised Standard Version of the Bible, editor of the Reader's Digest Bible (a condensed version of the RSV) and general editor of the New Revised Standard Version. He was also one of the editors of the United Bible Societies' standard Greek New Testament, the starting point for nearly all translations of the New Testament in recent decades.

Metzger's commentaries often utilize historical criticism and higher criticism, which attempt to explain the literary and historical origins of the Bible and the biblical canon. For instance, Metzger argues that the early church which assembled the New Testament did not consider divine inspiration to be a sufficient criterion for a book to be canonized. Metzger says that for the early church, it was very important that a work describing Jesus' life be written by a follower of or an eyewitness to Jesus, and in fact considered other works such as The Shepherd of Hermas and the Epistles of Clement to be inspired but not canonical. Because of such views, he has been criticized by some evangelicals who believe Metzger's views contradict the idea that the Bible is inerrant in its original manuscripts.[1]

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Woodrow said:

To get things started. It is difficult to think that the Bible is inerrent when some of the most noted Bible Scholars and translators have come to the conclusion that it is not inerrent and it is not the Divine revelation of God(swt)

The most famous and the best known is Dr. Bruce Metzger who recently passed away. He is most known for having done the best Greek translations into English. He is also the Author of several best selling Bibles and a contributor to the RSV.



Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/bruce-metzger

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alapiana1 said:

I am not that knowledgeable but I am fully persuaded that although I may not be able to answer some of your points and questions that there is an adequate explanation. As Gleason says: "the aerodynamic engineer may not understand how a bumble bee can fly; yet he trusts that there must be an... explanation for its fine performance since, as a matter of fact, it does fly!" Look at it this way; to us Christians the Lord Jesus is final and supreme. If there are errors in any of His teachings, then Christianity would be a hoax. So we Christians must contradict any thing that says that the Bible is flawed in theory. Gleason also states that "a careful examination of Christ's references to the Old Testament makes it unmistakably evident that He fully accepted as factual even the most controversial statements in the Hebrew bible pertaining to history and science." Some of these in question are Jonah and the story of Noah and the Exodus.

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If there are errors in any of His teachings, then Christianity would be a hoax.

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Woodrow said:

I can agree with this.



However, I do not believe his teachings were a Hoax, I believe that what is presented as his teachings is a hoax.

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alapiana1 said:

If Christianity is a hoax as you say, I choose to follow it till the end and face Allah the Great Judge with the responsibility of my choice. At least I have a good advocate. Many will face the Judge without one.:enough!:

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alapiana1 said:

I am not that knowledgeable but I am fully persuaded that although I may not be able to answer some of your points and questions that there is an adequate explanation. As Gleason says: "the aerodynamic engineer may not understand how a bumble bee can fly; yet he trusts that there must be an... explanation for its fine performance since, as a matter of fact, it does fly!" Look at it this way; to us Christians the Lord Jesus is final and supreme. If there are errors in any of His teachings, then Christianity would be a hoax. So we Christians must contradict any thing that says that the Bible is flawed in theory. Gleason also states that "a careful examination of Christ's references to the Old Testament makes it unmistakably evident that He fully accepted as factual even the most controversial statements in the Hebrew bible pertaining to history and science." Some of these in question are Jonah and the story of Noah and the Exodus.

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alapiana1 said:

Again, what your saying by that is Christianity is a hoax. We cannot allow that thought to be entertained much less spoken. mg:

If Christianity is a hoax as you say, I choose to follow it till the end and face Allah the Great Judge with the responsibility of my choice. At least I have a good advocate. Many will face the Judge without one.:enough!:

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Again, what your saying by that is Christianity is a hoax.

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Philosopher said:

When you are not knowledgeable but are fully persuaded, it means you are following your faith blindly.

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Woodrow said:

I am quite certain God(as) would have spoken to Isa(as) many times. But, where does the NT tell anything God(swt) said to Isa(as)?

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Woodrow said:

I sincerly believe this statement:



I know that you are still misguided and it sounds blasphemous to you. But, it is the truth.

Paul did not bring Christianity to the World, He brought Greek Paganism to Christianity and interpreted the writings of the true apostles to be acceptable to the Greeks.

Very little of the NT has any of the Injil that God(swt) revealed to Isa(as) . In fact trying to find anything in the NT that was told to Isa(as) by God(as) is very difficult to find.

He said to Peter, "This is My Son in whom I am well pleased hear ye him" Jesus said on an occasion that this voice came for your sake. Why would God need to speak to His own word?
Can you prove that Paul brought in pagan things to Christianity. Don't forget the Bereans all searched out Paul's teaching to see if it lined up with the word. Paul passed their test. Paul didn't bring Greek teaching to the Bible. The Greeks copied and perverted Biblical doctrine. You already sent me that refuted article that didn't hold water.

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alapiana1 said:

What I meant was that I am not that knowledgeable about Islam and what all the scholars say in regards to pro and cons leading to Bible history and translations, but I am knowledgeable about the true spirit of the Bible. Yes, I admit I follow my faith blindly or not being able to see clearly, but one day, I will see clearly and know even as I am known. You see, faith is the evidence of the unseen and the substance of things hoped for. It's like the pilot that trusts his instruments instead of his feelings. You follow reason and logic and I go by faith. It is like one who goes by feelings and the other by faith. Feelings make a good servant but a very poor leader.

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Joe98 said:

This is a fiction invented by Muslims to discredit Christains.

No Christain has ever claimed that any such thing ever happened. Yet Muslims claim it over and over and over again.

Ultimately all you ever succeed in doing is discrediting Islam.

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Again, what your saying by that is Christianity is a hoax.

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Woodrow said:

Paul did not bring Christianity to the World, He brought Greek Paganism to Christianity and interpreted the writings of the true apostles to be acceptable to the Greeks.

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Philosopher; said:

So you have a logical explanation for the Trinity??

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Trumble said:

alapiana1,



He is, but has yet to provide anything credible to back up Paul's claimed introduction of 'Greek Paganism'. Most unlike him, actually. Woodrow, not Paul, that is!

You will see a lot of that here, from all sides. People only present the side an argument that suits them and their own beliefs; you need to read rather wider, both posters and elsewhere before you will get anywhere near the 'truth'. In particular this is a muslim forum after all, and the great majority of posters will be doing so from a muslim perspective.




What 'writings of the true apostles'?

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He is, but has yet to provide anything credible to back up Paul's claimed introduction of 'Greek Paganism'. Most unlike him, actually. Woodrow, not Paul, that is!

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CHRISTIANITY DREW HEAVILY ON MITHRAISM

The main body of Christian belief is in fact not originally Christian at all, and a surprisingly large part of it was drawn from the Persian cult of Mithras, which originated around 2000 BC. Known throughout Europe and Asia by the names Mithra, Mitra, Meitros, Mihr, Mehr, and Meher, the cult spread east through India to China, and reached all parts of the Roman Empire, from Scotland to the Sahara Desert, and from Spain to the Black Sea. The remains of Mithraic temples can be found in Britain, Italy, Romania, Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria, Turkey, Persia, Armenia, Syria, Israel, and North Africa.

The similarities between this pre-Christian religion and Christianity itself are too obvious to ignore:

- Mithras was born of a virgin given the title 'Mother of God'”;

- The Mithraic cult believed in a celestial heaven and a hell;

- The Mithraic cult taught that its followers would have immortality and eternal salvation;

- The Mithraic cult taught that there would be a final day of judgment in which the dead would resurrect, and a final conflict between good and evil that would destroy the existing order;

- The Mithraic cult required its followers to be baptized;

- The Mithraic cult had a ceremony in which followers drank wine and ate bread to symbolize the body and blood of Mithras;

- The Mithraic cult held Sundays as a sacred day;

- The Mithraic cult celebrated the birthday of their god annually on December the 25th;

- The Mithraic cult taught that after their god's earthly mission had been accomplished, he took part in a Last Supper with his companions before ascending to heaven, to forever protect the faithful from above.

(Sources: Cumont, Franz. Les Mystères de Mithra. Dover Publications, Inc. New York, 1956; Cumont, Franz. The Oriental Religions in Roman Paganism. Dover Publications, Inc. New York, 1956.)

OTHER RESURRECTION CULTS

The list of pre-Christian resurrection cults is long: Osiris; Tammuz; Adonis; Balder; Attis; and Dionysus - all of these gods were said to have died and been resurrected. Many classical heroic figures, such as Hercules, Perseus, and Theseus, were said to have been born through the union of a virgin mother and divine father.

It is thus apparent that almost all pagan religions, feasts or practices, which Christianity could not suppress, were simply incorporated into Christianity.

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The crucifixion theme, which forms the very core of Christianity, is yet another object that is non-Christian in origin. Above right, the writing on this Greek amulet, identifies the crucified figure as the Greek god-man Orpheus-Dionysus, who rose from the dead in that culture's mythology. The parallels with the Christian crucifixion, as illustrated right, are obvious, and it must come as a shock to Christians to learn that the crucifixion story is not theirs, and was incorporated from other non-Christian religions

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OTHER RESURRECTION CULTS

The list of pre-Christian resurrection cults is long: Osiris; Tammuz; Adonis; Balder; Attis; and Dionysus - all of these gods were said to have died and been resurrected. Many classical heroic figures, such as Hercules, Perseus, and Theseus, were said to have been born through the union of a virgin mother and divine father.

It is thus apparent that almost all pagan religions, feasts or practices, which Christianity could not suppress, were simply incorporated into Christianity.

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alapiana1 said:

Some say that the Bible is not reliable and the Qur'an is. It may be true that we no longer have any perfect copy of the inerrant original manuscripts of the Bible. But that would be true of us having an imperfect view of Christ Jesus, because He is not here to talk to in the flesh so to speak. All we Christians have is our faith in Him and what He said.

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alapiana1 said:

As I have mentioned in a previous thread, it is not so much reliability as validity that is important. For instance, we could have a Newspaper that is totally accurate (reliable) and free from any errors whatsoever even free of typos, that doesn't make it the word of God. I think we Christians are chasing rabbits to try to defend the Bible. We don't have to. All we have to do is unleash it.

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alapiana1 said:

Look at it this way; to us Christians the Lord Jesus is final and supreme. If there are errors in any of His teachings, then Christianity would be a hoax. So we Christians must contradict any thing that says that the Bible is flawed in theory.

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alapiana1 said:

If Christianity is a hoax as you say, I choose to follow it till the end and face Allah the Great Judge with the responsibility of my choice. At least I have a good advocate. Many will face the Judge without one.:enough!:

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